Disk Brakes- which ones?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Disk Brakes- which ones?

    I recently ordered a pair of XTR/717 disk wheels and am now looking for disk brakes. They were scheduled to arrive today but they had to be reshedules for monday . If you had to choose between these three, what would you pick:

    XTR calipers/rotors and XT lever (no integrated crap on my bike)

    Hopo mono minis with DT swiss cetnerlock adapter - and I have a question about those. It seems I've seen them in the catalogs both ways, normal rotors and the cool al. spider floating-ish rotor, so which is it? I REALLY dig the look of the rotors with the al. spider.

    Or.. Formula Oro Puro also with DT centerlock adapter.

    thanks.

    BM
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmadau
    I recently ordered a pair of XTR/717 disk wheels and am now looking for disk brakes. They were scheduled to arrive today but they had to be reshedules for monday . If you had to choose between these three, what would you pick:

    XTR calipers/rotors and XT lever (no integrated crap on my bike)

    Hopo mono minis with DT swiss cetnerlock adapter - and I have a question about those. It seems I've seen them in the catalogs both ways, normal rotors and the cool al. spider floating-ish rotor, so which is it? I REALLY dig the look of the rotors with the al. spider.

    Or.. Formula Oro Puro also with DT centerlock adapter.

    thanks.

    BM
    The Hope two-piece rotors, stainless braking surface with alloy carrier, are very nice and light at 94g for the 160mm rotor. Colors are available now. They work great with XTRs also, with XTs I had to take a few mils off the caliper to clear the rotor buttons.

    I'd go Hope mono minis, two-piece rotors with adapters BUT Hope is coming out with a new Mini Mono for 2007.

  3. #3
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    Just the facts!

    The fact is that all hydraulic disc brakes are very good to excellent. The Formula Oro Puros are the lightest (according to Cunningham-Mtn Bike Action) or as light as Marta SL's. The have the adjustability of Juicy Seven's with a superior adjuster, ie. it is simpler and it won't break in a crash.

    But, most importantly the Oro Puro's are just plain *****ing to look at. They are Italian and they are gorgeous. Formula made the first disc brakes for mountain bikes. Mattenhouser made the first hydraulic disc brakes back in the 1970's. They were a rim brake and they were big, bulky and butt ugly. My how things have changed.

    I think the best approach is a seven up front and a six in the rear.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by zkampyman
    The fact is that all hydraulic disc brakes are very good to excellent.
    Exactly!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by zkampyman
    The Formula Oro Puros are the lightest (according to Cunningham-Mtn Bike Action) or as light as Marta SL's.
    every single weight-weenie website i've been to (sites that list the weights of various components i mean) clearly show that that is not the case. especially if you have to use the post-mount to IS adapter, which in most cases you will.

    to bmadau, i don't think you can go wrong with any of those brakes. pick the one that fits your budget, and has the features you're looking for.

  6. #6
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    I like the Hope Mono Minis a lot.

  7. #7
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    I have heard many good and many bad things about Hope minis. Likewise with Magura's especially regarding bleeding etc. Yeah they are light, but if you have to treat them with absolute care, they probably should not be on an MTB (just my 2c)

    I have the XTR calipers with XT levers (no dual control stuff here, I run x0 triggers and x0 rear derailleur) with Galfer pads and goodridge hoses... absolutely awesome, easy to bleed, light, look great and very reliable. Good modulation and power to boot!

    I also run the Hope floating rotors with 6 bolt crossmax sl rims... awesome setup!!!!!

  8. #8
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    Which sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyco-Dude
    every single weight-weenie website i've been to (sites that list the weights of various components i mean) clearly show that that is not the case. especially if you have to use the post-mount to IS adapter, which in most cases you will.
    Where have you seen Oro Puros listed? I've not seen them anywhere - only normal Oros on weightweenies, where the weight is pretty close to the Formula spec. The Formula spec. would suggest that the Oro Puro gets pretty close to the Marta SL, but not quite as light - something I'd be willing to compromise for better braking given all the issues I hear with Martas. Of course at the moment I have something even lighter - B4 SLs - but have a bit of an issue in that I'm swapping from a Manitou fork to one with IS mounts, and have a PM caliper - and a normal PM to IS adapter doesn't fit. Anybody looking to get rid of a B4 SL, or swapping from IS to post-mount?

  9. #9
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    Thanks for all the help. I guess I can't really go wrong. I'll have to see what's available when I have the money. My availability and selection are determined by what QBP has in stock when I'm ready to buy. I'm lucky enough to have an employee QBP account through work.

    BM
    "I've come to believe that common sense is not that common" - Matt Timmerman

  10. #10
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    i have seen the puro listed on a couple of sites, here's one (click on fotoalbum and scroll down to disc brakes). here's another, but the brake listed there has frm aluminum rotor bolts and a hope rotor (if you crunch the numbers this brake would come to about 350g with stock hardware).

    this thread has a few websites that list component weights, some with pictures.

  11. #11
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    Take it for what it is worth, but Formula had the Oro Puro displayed on a scale at interbike, picture from the MTBR "virtual booth"
    http://content.mtbr.com/TRP_12_234_1crx.aspx
    If Universal cycles gets them in stock before their 10% coupon expires I plan on ordering a set.

    Also the Oro K24 is exactly the same as the Puro, minus the lighter weight bits, and Formula will sell upgraded bolt kits, levers, hoses, pads.....
    Last edited by Hosehead; 02-13-2006 at 03:10 PM.
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  12. #12
    TC3
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    Many of you Mono Mini fans might not agree, but I would suggest to avoid Mono Minis. I got my 180mm/160mm minis based on the good reviews, look and price. However it doesn't perform as good as the old 4 pot XT brake on power, modulation, lever feel and quietness. I (and some shop mechnics) have tried all the methods to stop squealing, facing brake tabs, reseting pistons, cleaning rotors & pads.... but it just never stoped squealing. Other than squealing, Minis stopping power fades on long downhill runs (no, not the real downhill course), that I had to take a brake cooling breaks... and I only weigh 145 lbs. Too bad I sold the XT too soon, so I got the Marta SLs to replace Mono Minis. Marta SLs easily blow Minis out of water on weight, modulation, lever feel, quietness and even power. Recently, I bought a set of Oro Puro for a new frame, but not installed yet. So I can't provide any comments on performance.
    Here're the ranking based on my experience on those brakes:
    Power: XT > Marta SL > Mono Mini
    Lever feel: Oro Puro > XT > Marta SL > Mono Mini
    Weight: Oro Puro > Marta SL > Mono Mini > XT
    Quietness: Marta SL > XT > Mono Mini
    Modulation: Marta SL > XT > Mono Mini

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TC3
    Weight: Oro Puro > Marta SL > Mono Mini > XT
    So do you have real on the scale figures to suggest that an Oro Puro is lighter than a Marta SL? Give us the figures!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyco-Dude
    here's another, but the brake listed there has frm aluminum rotor bolts and a hope rotor (if you crunch the numbers this brake would come to about 350g with stock hardware).
    Oro rotor: 102g
    Hope rotor: 90g
    Steel disc bolts: 12g
    Alu disc bolts: 5g

    So that would suggest a stock weight of 341g - or exactly the same as that tradeshow picture (but actually lighter than on Furmula's website). Slightly lighter than a Marta SL then.

  15. #15
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    The actual weights of my Marta SL's (accurately weighed to the nearest 0.01g) are an average (average of front and rear) of 352.7 grams with uncut hoses.

    I've cut and tuned mine for my Fuel100 (Large size; Ti caliper fixing bolts and AL master fixing bolts) ans they now come out at (average of front and rear) 338.4 grams.

    So I don't see the Oro lighter than that, for the same amount of Ti/AL fixings...

    Luego!
    CODMAN MCM#101

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CODMAN
    I've cut and tuned mine for my Fuel100 (Large size; Ti caliper fixing bolts and AL master fixing bolts) ans they now come out at (average of front and rear) 338.4 grams.

    So I don't see the Oro lighter than that, for the same amount of Ti/AL fixings...

    Luego!
    Thats a good point, the Oro Puro is about at the limit of tuning straight from the factory, but the Marta SL can lose a few grams with ti/al bolts.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hosehead
    Thats a good point, the Oro Puro is about at the limit of tuning straight from the factory, but the Marta SL can lose a few grams with ti/al bolts.
    the puro's come with ti/al bolts from the factory? i mean the rotor and caliper fixing bolts.

  18. #18
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    l

    I'm not sure the composition of individual bolts, Formulas liturature simply lists the fasteners for both the calipers and levers as Ti/Al.

    There is a guy from Formula that often posts on the brake forum, maybe I'll PM him to see if he can shed some more light on the fasteners.
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  19. #19
    TC3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyco-Dude
    the puro's come with ti/al bolts from the factory? i mean the rotor and caliper fixing bolts.
    rotor bolts=steel
    caliper fixing bolts= 2 steel / 2 ti

  20. #20
    TC3
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris m
    So do you have real on the scale figures to suggest that an Oro Puro is lighter than a Marta SL? Give us the figures!
    My Oro Puro is 180 mm, so I can't provide accurate figures.
    Without comparing rotors, mounting hardwares and adapters, both rear marta and rear oro (with uncut hose) are 210 grams.
    I should have mentioned Puro is lighter, but just by a few grams.
    Marta can easily be tweaked lighter than "stock" Oro Puro, tho.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by TC3
    rotor bolts=steel
    caliper fixing bolts= 2 steel / 2 ti
    The calipers are a post mount style with an adaptor for IS applications, so that information combined with pictures leads me to believe that the bolts between the caliper and adaptor are Ti and the bolts between the adaptor and frame/fork are steel.

    Looks like there are a few more grams to shave than I initially thought. I'm quite surprised by how little they weigh, I would have guessed that the Martas would be lighter.
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  22. #22
    greg@formulabrakeusa.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hosehead
    The calipers are a post mount style with an adaptor for IS applications, so that information combined with pictures leads me to believe that the bolts between the caliper and adaptor are Ti and the bolts between the adaptor and frame/fork are steel.

    Looks like there are a few more grams to shave than I initially thought. I'm quite surprised by how little they weigh, I would have guessed that the Martas would be lighter.
    Hey Guys -

    Sorry I missed this thread for so long. As you have gathered, the Puro ships with Ti fasteners to bolt the caliper to the PM adapter, and the adapter comes with steel fasteners to mount to the IS bosses on the frame or fork.

    The brake currently comes with steel rotor bolts; we are working on a ti kit.

    For the record, the brake pictured in our Virtual Trade Show booth didn't include the two bolts for the adapter, only the one to mount the caliper to the adapter.. With those two screws included the weight comes in at ~351g for an uncut front brake with 160mm rotor and IS adapter.

    I hope this helps!

    Best regards,
    Greg

  23. #23
    PCC
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    My Hope Mono Minis weigh 766 grams for the pair, steel 160mm rotors, steel bolts, not tuned in any way. Titanium bolts may shave off a few more grams but I kind of like the brakes the way they are. I still need to shorten the brake hoses but that's it.

  24. #24
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    Formula Oro Puro

    Quote Originally Posted by bmadau
    I recently ordered a pair of XTR/717 disk wheels and am now looking for disk brakes. They were scheduled to arrive today but they had to be reshedules for monday . If you had to choose between these three, what would you pick:

    XTR calipers/rotors and XT lever (no integrated crap on my bike)

    Hopo mono minis with DT swiss cetnerlock adapter - and I have a question about those. It seems I've seen them in the catalogs both ways, normal rotors and the cool al. spider floating-ish rotor, so which is it? I REALLY dig the look of the rotors with the al. spider.

    Or.. Formula Oro Puro also with DT centerlock adapter.

    thanks.

    BM
    I have had Hope Mini Mono 6" with the newer, "floating", rotor -- is good, but i'm curious about the Formula Oro Puro
    “Everyday is a good day,” from the Blue Cliff Records, Yun-men (864-949 AD).

  25. #25
    Ole
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    Quote Originally Posted by greg@formulabrakeusa.com
    As you have gathered, the Puro ships with Ti fasteners to bolt the caliper to the PM adapter, and the adapter comes with steel fasteners to mount to the IS bosses on the frame or fork.
    Actually, the bolts that mount the caliper to the adapter are aluminum.

    There are several ti bolts on the caliper that can easilly be replaced with alu from the B4 (SL, Pro+) brakes, including the tube mounting bolt. I've done so myself. Also, the steel bolts that mount the adapters to the frame can be replaced with alu from B4. If you get a front 160mm adaptor and use it in the rear, you can use a 140mm disc in the rear for further weight savings. Currently I use a Hope Mini alu carrier disc in the front, and a 140mm NoTubes wavy disc in the rear. Works very well for my 80kg weight.


    Ole.

  26. #26
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    i'm running a mono m4 180/ mono mini 160 combo on my tracer and have nothing but good things to say about them. i've read that they can squeel and are noisy, but i have yet have any problems with it (knock on wood). i also live in a fairly dry climate so that may have something to do with it as i do very little water crossings that would get the rotors wet

  27. #27
    greg@formulabrakeusa.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole
    Actually, the bolts that mount the caliper to the adapter are aluminum.

    There are several ti bolts on the caliper that can easilly be replaced with alu from the B4 (SL, Pro+) brakes, including the tube mounting bolt. I've done so myself. Also, the steel bolts that mount the adapters to the frame can be replaced with alu from B4. If you get a front 160mm adaptor and use it in the rear, you can use a 140mm disc in the rear for further weight savings. Currently I use a Hope Mini alu carrier disc in the front, and a 140mm NoTubes wavy disc in the rear. Works very well for my 80kg weight.


    Ole.
    They were aluminum for the first part of the Puro production run.. They have now been switched to Ti. I'm not sure when that happened, but I don't believe we have ever had the Al screws in stock.

    I don't want anyone to be disappointed when they wind up with Ti fasteners!

    - Greg

  28. #28
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    hope mono m4 200

    Quote Originally Posted by tkblazer
    i'm running a mono m4 180/ mono mini 160 combo on my tracer and have nothing but good things to say about them. i've read that they can squeel and are noisy, but i have yet have any problems with it (knock on wood). i also live in a fairly dry climate so that may have something to do with it as i do very little water crossings that would get the rotors wet
    i have hope mono m4 200 now and have had hope mini mono 160:
    they're both excellent, all around.
    i've been riding in mud and during rains.

    i'd like to give Oruo Puros a try
    Last edited by TrailNut; 02-21-2006 at 09:00 PM.
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  29. #29
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    Oro Puro's are just plain *****ing to look at

    Quote Originally Posted by zkampyman
    The fact is that all hydraulic disc brakes are very good to excellent. The Formula Oro Puros are the lightest (according to Cunningham-Mtn Bike Action) or as light as Marta SL's. The have the adjustability of Juicy Seven's with a superior adjuster, ie. it is simpler and it won't break in a crash.

    But, most importantly the Oro Puro's are just plain *****ing to look at. They are Italian and they are gorgeous. Formula made the first disc brakes for mountain bikes. Mattenhouser made the first hydraulic disc brakes back in the 1970's. They were a rim brake and they were big, bulky and butt ugly. My how things have changed.

    I think the best approach is a seven up front and a six in the rear.
    i agree with almost all of what zkampyman just posted, but
    best approach is an eight up front and a six in the rear, unles you're a xc racing fantatic, then go six 'n six.
    “Everyday is a good day,” from the Blue Cliff Records, Yun-men (864-949 AD).

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