Results 1 to 31 of 31

Thread: Ashima Flo-tor

  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RS VR6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    4,487

    Ashima Flo-tor

    These are the "Arf 3" model. They're replacing the 180mm RT-86 on my trail bike. This one is going on the front. I've been using a 180mm on the rear for a couple rides now. Took them out on a local shuttle trail. Its 6.5 miles long and drops around 3000ft. No noticeable brake fade...even on the fastest wide open sections. I was really tired on the last run and pretty heavy on the brakes. I'm running them with the Trucker Co semi metallic pads. So far...they are feeling real good.

    I'm 145lbs pre gear...YMMV.

    The 114gr printed on the rotor is pretty spot on.

    Ashima Flo-tor-img_20170621_141156200.jpg

    The bolts some with lock washers instead of thread lock on the bolts. Pretty sure that the bolts are aluminum since the magnet I put up to the bag only stuck to the washers and not the bolts.

    Ashima Flo-tor-img_20170621_141213866.jpg

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    300
    quality product. i own the Ai2 (180/160 w/XT brakes) and really enjoy them.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,945
    I'm running the 203f/180R on my AM/trial bike. I was going to put the ice techs on for really long decents, but I'm liking them. I'm 200lbs on my way to 190.

  4. #4
    bike rider
    Reputation: Lelandjt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    5,267
    I wouldn't use aluminum rotor bolts. Toronto Cycles has nice TiNi coated (gold) titanium bolts.
    Keep the Country country.

  5. #5
    Specialized
    Reputation: Seb K's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    962
    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt View Post
    I wouldn't use aluminum rotor bolts. Toronto Cycles has nice TiNi coated (gold) titanium bolts.
    Nothing wrong with aluminium rotor bolts . Ashima has done thorough testing and also Trickstuff have made some of their own aluminium bolts . They are 7075 T6 (T6 meaning the alloy has been hardened further for strength) and the bolts have a much wider shoulder meaning as you thread in the bolt the shoulder actually rubs against the rotor for a better tighter fit .

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RS VR6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    4,487
    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt View Post
    I wouldn't use aluminum rotor bolts. Toronto Cycles has nice TiNi coated (gold) titanium bolts.
    Even if they come with the rotors?

    I used the lock washers and tightened them to the 4nm printed on the bolts.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,176
    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    Even if they come with the rotors?

    I used the lock washers and tightened them to the 4nm printed on the bolts.
    Alu rotor bolts are very very sketchy, as alu is too weak on shear forces.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RS VR6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    4,487
    Is Ashima trying to kill their customers?

  9. #9
    RAKC Industries
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    3,264
    Someone needs to show first the actual forces exerted on rotor bolts and understand the amount of force it takes to shear 7000 series t6 aluminum.

    Then youll see all this fear mongering is nothing more than that.

    You all have no issues with aluminum through axles which see enormous shear stresses. And those are sharp, direct impact stress. Much worse than rotors see. Floating rotor design will shear at those hollow rivets about the same time the bolts will shear off, if not before.

    Another point, systems like wolftooth camo. Those 5 bolts go through hell, much more leverage forces from mashing compared to anything rotors see. And the only difference is the tiny sleeve machined into the spider to deal with so much more stress.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Life on a bike doesn't begin till the sun goes down.


  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,176
    This topic has been well explored in the past.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/weight-weenie...ml#post7612448

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RS VR6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    4,487
    Quote Originally Posted by thesmokingman View Post
    This topic has been well explored in the past.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/weight-weenie...ml#post7612448
    but we're not talking about getting aluminum bolts after the fact. Ashima includes aluminum bolts with their Flotor rotors. Why include them if they are prone to failure? I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only one to buy these rotors.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,176
    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    but we're not talking about getting aluminum bolts after the fact. Ashima includes aluminum bolts with their Flotor rotors. Why include them if they are prone to failure? I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only one to buy these rotors.
    By your logic then all commercially sold products are safe then? We know for a fact that logic does not hold right?

    Those Ashima rotors are not even the lightest. The KCNC floating are 20g lighter and guess what bolts they come with? They sure don't come with alu, instead they are stainless steel.

    Btw, someone mentioned Toronto Cycles who have one of the deepest selection of alu and ti hardware available. One of the first things in their FAQ is to only use alu hardware in lower stress areas. You're free to use whatever you want. But for me, literally a few grams for safety is not a line that I would cross. I draw that line at ti bolts for rotors.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RS VR6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    4,487
    Quote Originally Posted by thesmokingman View Post
    By your logic then all commercially sold products are safe then? We know for a fact that logic does not hold right?
    I would like to think the things that I would buy would not land me in the hospital. I mean brakes are pretty important on a bike. I'm not saying that the aluminum bolts don't have the potential to fail...but I'm asking why Ashima would include something that could fail and cause injury? Its not that difficult for them to just include steel bolts instead of aluminum.

    Has there been third party tests done with aluminum vs steel rotor bolts?

  14. #14
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    30,658
    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    I would like to think the things that I would buy would not land me in the hospital. I mean brakes are pretty important on a bike. I'm not saying that the aluminum bolts don't have the potential to fail...but I'm asking why Ashima would include something that could fail and cause injury?
    The same reason people made carbon fiber rotors. Because they think they can sell some and their liability is limited to nonexistent. Pure freedom. Some people are addicted to lightweight parts like crack and something a few grams lighter can sell.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  15. #15
    RAKC Industries
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    3,264
    Carbon fiber rotors were an experiment more or less.

    Liability is very much a big deal in the US. When a burglar can sue the victim for falling while breaking in through a window and WIN, theres a lot to be said for our legal system.

    As for aluminum rotor bolts, many here continue to miss extensive bits of information.

    First that there are 6 bolts baring the load. Some of that load is friction from being clamped on.

    Second is that aluminum comes in various alloys and different tempers. This vastly changes the characteristic of the metal.

    6061 t6 alone is a 30,000 psi shear. 30 thousand pounds per square inch. Not a lot compared against steel Ill grant you, but thats a lot of force required still.

    7000 series is much stronger in that regard. Its a harder alloy. Still not near that of steel.

    Bolts are not meant to be doing down hill runs at whistler or stuff like that. Would expect to see failures, not catastrophic, but suddenly find a bolt head sheared off possibly. Giving uou a ton of warning.

    But are more than sufficient for XC riders, especially weight weenies as they could never put enough strain on the brakes to come close to shearing them. They would loose traction or crash before hitting half the forces needed to maybe shear one let alone all 6.

    Are they going to last as long as steel, no.

    Are they going to hold up to trying out for rampage, hell no.

    The funniest part, no one is worried about the dainty little hollow pins they use in floating rotors and those will crush before you can shear off 6 7000 series rotor bolts.

    Best part is has ANYONE EVER noticed that the pressed pins used to attach the steel braking surface to aluminum spider of rotors ARE ALUMINUM???

    Like shimano ice tech (which i just checked material used, no iron in those pins at all, i have the rotors on my plus bike), only steel is the outer ring and the bolts.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Life on a bike doesn't begin till the sun goes down.


  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RS VR6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    4,487
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    The same reason people made carbon fiber rotors. Because they think they can sell some and their liability is limited to nonexistent. Pure freedom. Some people are addicted to lightweight parts like crack and something a few grams lighter can sell.
    I've seen pictures of the busted carbon rotors. Has anyone had failures with the Flotor because of the bolts it comes with? This is the first set of rotors that comes with aluminum bolts I've bought. The internet frowns upon aluminum bolts...but has yet to produce any kind of proof that they fail. The threads on other forums just pretty much degrade to name calling with no proof of the bolts failing.

    These rotors are going on my trail bike that I use for shuttling and bike parks...so I'm not going to sacrifice safety for the sake of a few grams.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    708
    Quote Originally Posted by thesmokingman View Post
    Alu rotor bolts are very very sketchy, as alu is too weak on shear forces.
    Thank christ that sheer strength isn't how a rotor bolt works.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    658
    I've used a few aluminum bolts on my bikes for things like cable clamps, etc. I gave up on them due to them rounding off way too easily. You may get your rotor bolts tight enough, but I bet you'll be replacing the bolts every time you replace the rotors.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RS VR6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    4,487
    Quote Originally Posted by pcmark View Post
    I bet you'll be replacing the bolts every time you replace the rotors.
    All new rotors come with new bolts.

  20. #20
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    30,658
    Also, I have a different version of the Ashima floater rotors, they developed play in between the two sections at the pins, resulting in a loud and easily felt "clank" any time I applied the front brake. Got bad enough I had to switch them out a few weeks ago.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    788
    Quote Originally Posted by thesmokingman View Post
    This topic has been well explored in the past.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/weight-weenie...ml#post7612448
    I think a lot of people in this thread, and the poster you linked to, are misunderstanding how the braking system is supposed to work. The bolts should not be under any shear loads--they should be under tension creating a high static friction between the rotor and the hub which carries the torque from the rotor. Suggesting to tighten them to a lower than stated torque is asking for trouble and is asking for the bolts to take a shear load in addition to the tension load they are under. This is a bad idea. Tighten your bolts down correctly.

    Your rotor should not be rocking and should not be supported by the threads. If it is it probably due to the bolts being way too loose.

    A deceleration of 1g, I think is very hard to achieve with the front brake on a mtb--20mph to 0 in 1s is basically full speed to stopped in 1s. I could be wrong but I think that's very, very hard to do, especially off road. Supercars can do a little better than that, and cars are much, much better than bikes at braking.

    Anyway, that posted calculated about 10kN of force at the rotor bolt.

    https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?...(.2*4.97mm))*6
    ^ that's about how much pressure should be applied by the rotor to the hub.

    Here we take the coefficient of friction of aluminum on aluminum and calculate maximum static friciton:
    https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?...97mm))*6)*1.35

    source for coefficient: Friction and Friction Coefficients

    You can see that you have a 10kN braking load and a frictional force of 49kN. A rather safe system. Even at an unrealistic 1g deceleration. Only once the frictional force is overcome, and the rotor starts to move relative to the hub will shear loads come into play on the bolt. If you are using a click style torque wrench--the springs relax over time and you "lose torque".

    Please do not under torque your rotor bolts. I bet you anything that's the leading reason why bike companies are switching to centerlock--because it makes it harder to install the rotor wrong and create a safety issue. There are many mechanics out there who think they are human torque wrenches who are incredibly inaccurate and imprecise.

    The issue with the bolt material is if it can handle the tension coupled with the vibration, elements, etc. It shouldn't weaken by corroding, UV rays, etc.

    Now if there is a flaw in my math or reasoning, please point it out to me.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    708
    Quote Originally Posted by litany View Post
    .... a bunch of stuff that is correct af....
    Yep. Nailed it. The specifics on the math aren't important. Understanding the mechanics is what matters. Another key bit to note in there is that the static friction is additive of each rotor bolt. So someone using 3 rotor bolts is getting 1/2 of the clamping force and thus 1/2 of the frictional force. Finally, a VERY high percentage of fastener failures are due to insufficient torque.

  23. #23
    Specialized
    Reputation: Seb K's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    962
    Well using only three bolts will stiffen the rotor at those points . The remaining 3 points will have more flex so less friction . This is fine for the rear rotor but not for the front .

  24. #24
    Ride Fast Take Chances :)
    Reputation: alexbn921's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    2,705
    I would not use aluminum rotor bolts even if they came from the manufacture. If you do use them torque them to the specified value and only use them once. Do Not reuse them.
    Some parts are not worth saving 5 grams on. Stem, rotor, brake and seat clamp bolts should not be aluminum. Using 3 bolts is also a bad idea. Anything that I have to worry about failing and could kill me I error on the safe side.

    I don't like titanium QR either, as they are to flexible.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,125
    What about the different thermal properties of aluminum vs other material bolts? Rotors see pretty large thermal cycles. I wonder if aluminum bolts could expand enough to lose enough clamping force to either loosen sooner and/or fail in sheer?

    My gut feel is that a good quality aluminum bolt is perfectly safe in this application. Heck, aluminum bolts should increase the heat transfer to the hub, although probably not enough increase to matter much.

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    871
    too bad this post turned into an aluminum bolt pro/con thread instead of about the rotors themselves!

    Question: How do these compare in thickness especially at the joint between rotor and carrier? I ran Shimano RT-86s for years, loved them. Got tricked into buying a hope floating for the rear after a crash. The Hope rotor rubs the caliper mount because of the little connections between the inner/outer part of the rotor. ( filed caliper mount down a bit and it helps, but only with still having the rotor be off center in the caliper )

    Wondering if these would be a better alternative, although I'll probably live with the Hope for a while since I'm too cheap to replace something that isn't broken.

  27. #27
    Specialized
    Reputation: Seb K's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    962
    Quote Originally Posted by slcpunk View Post
    too bad this post turned into an aluminum bolt pro/con thread instead of about the rotors themselves!

    Question: How do these compare in thickness especially at the joint between rotor and carrier? I ran Shimano RT-86s for years, loved them. Got tricked into buying a hope floating for the rear after a crash. The Hope rotor rubs the caliper mount because of the little connections between the inner/outer part of the rotor. ( filed caliper mount down a bit and it helps, but only with still having the rotor be off center in the caliper )

    Wondering if these would be a better alternative, although I'll probably live with the Hope for a while since I'm too cheap to replace something that isn't broken.
    I had the same issues with the rivets on the rotors hitting the caliper . I ended up ditching the rotors altogether . I have gotten away with the Kettle Cycles rotors on my trail bike and even the second edition carbon ceramics by Alpha (second edition has more ceramic coating) . I use my Scrub rotors on my weight weenie bike and and use steel rotors on my cheaper bikes .

    In regards to aluminium bolts there is nothing wrong with them . The tensile strength is weaker but if you use all six the torque load is spread around . The stems have wider shoulders near the head of the bolt so they are stronger too . Aluminium/titanium mix is the best strength to weigh ratio you will get .

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RS VR6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    4,487
    Quote Originally Posted by slcpunk View Post
    too bad this post turned into an aluminum bolt pro/con thread instead of about the rotors themselves!

    Question: How do these compare in thickness especially at the joint between rotor and carrier? I ran Shimano RT-86s for years, loved them. Got tricked into buying a hope floating for the rear after a crash. The Hope rotor rubs the caliper mount because of the little connections between the inner/outer part of the rotor. ( filed caliper mount down a bit and it helps, but only with still having the rotor be off center in the caliper )

    Wondering if these would be a better alternative, although I'll probably live with the Hope for a while since I'm too cheap to replace something that isn't broken.
    So far I haven't had any issues with the rotors rubbing anything. It did seem to take me a bit longer to get them so that they didn't scrub the pads when spinning the wheels on the bike stand compared to the RT86 they replaced. Used them at the Mammoth bike park for two days in September and not a peep.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ashima Flo-tor-img_20170716_112222656.jpg  

    Ashima Flo-tor-img_20170716_112135967.jpg  


  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    11

    Good job!

    Just because you mentioned rocking in this thread specifically: I've torqued my 6 bolts to spec w/ locking washers on 203mm Ashima Flotor. Installed on Fox36 / Ibis HD4.

    I'm not a super aggressive rider, but after about 200mi of riding, there's noticeable play / rocking that seems to originate in the hardware that connects the anodized center w/ caliper-contact outer. 6-bolts are still tight / no rocking at hub w/ hand-test on anodized part.

    This is not normal, correct?

    I've "grounded" the rotor and replaced w/ a 1-piece until I can get confirmation.

    Thanks in advance for any advice (image is stock product photo).

    Ashima Flo-tor-s-l1600.jpg

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RS VR6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    4,487
    You shouldn't have any play between the center and the friction ring. I could see it developing play since its riveted together. I've done a bunch of shuttling this summer and so far...mine are holding up pretty good. I'm probably 150-155 lbs (Pack, knee pads, full face helmet) with all my gear.

  31. #31
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    30,658
    Quote Originally Posted by kurtz433 View Post
    Just because you mentioned rocking in this thread specifically: I've torqued my 6 bolts to spec w/ locking washers on 203mm Ashima Flotor. Installed on Fox36 / Ibis HD4.

    I'm not a super aggressive rider, but after about 200mi of riding, there's noticeable play / rocking that seems to originate in the hardware that connects the anodized center w/ caliper-contact outer. 6-bolts are still tight / no rocking at hub w/ hand-test on anodized part.

    This is not normal, correct?

    I've "grounded" the rotor and replaced w/ a 1-piece until I can get confirmation.

    Thanks in advance for any advice (image is stock product photo).

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	s-l1600.jpg 
Views:	24 
Size:	204.6 KB 
ID:	1225481
    That's what happened to mine, it was bad. I've had other riveted rotors and they didn't do that.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

Similar Threads

  1. Hi Tor Park - New City, NY
    By rickcin in forum New York - New Jersey
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-13-2013, 05:31 PM
  2. Tor de 50 report
    By rockcrusher in forum Arizona
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 02-13-2012, 11:39 PM
  3. Paging Graham - Tor-y-foel
    By eatdrinkride in forum Arizona
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-19-2011, 11:53 PM
  4. Hi Tor State Park
    By Mike813 in forum New York - New Jersey
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 11-09-2011, 08:38 PM
  5. No Tor Bike Show purchases thread ?
    By ccaddy in forum Eastern Canada
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 03-10-2011, 02:31 AM

Members who have read this thread: 99

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.