T-East Tailhead mayhem- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    T-East Tailhead mayhem

    I know this is common knowledge to many here but for any of the noobs....

    Be kind, clean up, quiet during the evening hours, respectful of the neighbors, etc.

    It's been packed as of late with news of FT3K re-opening and other multi-platinum video releases circulating the intra-webz...

    And, not going to get any quieter as the dry months arrive....

  2. #2
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  3. #3
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    Beers, berms, and bikes.
    Taking it easy for all you sinners.

  4. #4
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    I think there's another factor....which is:
    With the addition of GS, more tokul west riders are now parking at 356th, instead of accessing via SE39th.

    Having spent some recent weekend days on flowtron, traffic has been surprisingly light. Certainly way fewer riders than cars in the lot, like less than half.

    regardless I agree with the message. Keep it quiet.

  5. #5
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    We always ride early and are generally one of the first cars in the lot. When we leave I love watching the mayhem as 5 cars jockey for our 1 spot.

  6. #6
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    Oh great, Duthie #2. :

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    Good point FM though those that I know ride it West to East to finish on FT3K or Ivan, etc. The lot across from the Diner still is pretty empty considering the space available.

    Another option used for BBTC/EMBA rides in the past has been the tennis courts at the Salish. But, we don't want to anger them either and there are rumors of break ins up there. But, a nice little trail warm up to get into East there.

    Hopefully, we've learned a little from the Duthie issues....

  8. #8
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    How many have passes? Just sayin.....
    Last edited by <sL4yEr>RuLz; 01-28-2013 at 08:42 PM. Reason: forgot I invented the question mark
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  9. #9
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    everyone of course! Hancock is raking it in

  10. #10
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    Paying for a pass does not entitle you to a parking spot, there is no where to park on handcock's land

  11. #11
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    mine does ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by ortedd View Post
    Paying for a pass does not entitle you to a parking spot, there is no where to park on handcock's land
    I'm not complaining about the parking. I parked half a mile past the lot just so I could Strava that stretch! I'm complaining that most (and I am slightly speculating) that more than half of yesterday's riders were without passes. But really now, does that matter? I mean, where's the enforcement?
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borneo View Post
    Good point FM though those that I know ride it West to East to finish on FT3K or Ivan, etc. The lot across from the Diner still is pretty empty considering the space available.

    Another option used for BBTC/EMBA rides in the past has been the tennis courts at the Salish. But, we don't want to anger them either and there are rumors of break ins up there. But, a nice little trail warm up to get into East there.

    Hopefully, we've learned a little from the Duthie issues....
    Does anyone know what the story is with coming in from the Snoqualmie Falls side? Is the gravel road off of Tokul rd still gated? Can you ride gun range back to the gate on your way out?

    I think ultimately Tokul has too much climbing for the duthie crowd. It may be popular with them for awhile, but soon they will miss the buff xc loops with 50' of climbing and berms at every corner...

  13. #13
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    mine does ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by ortedd View Post
    Paying for a pass does not entitle you to a parking spot, there is no where to park on handcock's land
    I'm not complaining about the parking. I parked half a mile past the lot just so I could Strava that stretch! I'm complaining that most (and I am slightly speculating) that more than half of yesterday's riders were without passes. But really now, does that matter? I mean, where's the enforcement?
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  14. #14
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by <sL4yEr>RuLz View Post
    I'm complaining that most (and I am slightly speculating) that more than half of yesterday's riders were without passes. But really now, does that matter? I mean, where's the enforcement?
    I'm sure they'll make an appearance, now that you've raised awareness to the issue

  15. #15
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    Na, dude

    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    I'm sure they'll make an appearance, now that you've raised awareness to the issue
    I know they're out there in some shape or form. But don't worry, I'll let you borrow mine.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtd View Post
    Does anyone know what the story is with coming in from the Snoqualmie Falls side? Is the gravel road off of Tokul rd still gated? Can you ride gun range back to the gate on your way out?

    I think ultimately Tokul has too much climbing for the duthie crowd. It may be popular with them for awhile, but soon they will miss the buff xc loops with 50' of climbing and berms at every corner...
    Yes, it's still gated and belongs to someone else other than Hancock. But, despite the gate and the fence, it seems like people are still using that entrance/exit. There are other ways in to the lower East area just a bit farther north on the SVT though.

    You'd be surprised how much of the Duthie crowd is there and will be there. Not too much climbing for the more seasoned crowd. In fact some do 2-4 laps up the hill each time. But, for the slackers and the new riders, yes, I'll agree.

  17. #17
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    A few weeks ago we ran into some "duthie" riders who wanted to tag along. They were new to T-East. We did two laps of flowtron and on the 2nd climb they were dying. Then we rode MidTown, then climbed all the way back up to do upper and lower Ivan. We waited a LONG time for them to get to the top. We always like to end with OGDH, but the 3 tag-along guys had enough climbing and called it a day. They had fun, but complained the entire time about all the climbing. I've talked to several people that will do Flowtron, then go to Ivan and be done.

    I actually enjoy the climbing there and think it makes the descents that much better.

  18. #18
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    I hate climbing, but as I get older, it is just a way to get another work out in, so I am appreciating the climbs more than I used to. I will say that when I first started riding Tokul about 5 years ago, I thought the climbs were brutal. Now, they seem pretty tame in comparison. Frequenting Tiger might have something to do with that.

  19. #19
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    What's also kinda funny is that people will lap the road climb at East over and over without concern and then complain about a little road connection over in West...

    Either way, it's gonna be busy which is a good thing and we'll all have to take that into concern in the way we did with the Duthie parking problems.

    Heck, Tigger will be having issues again this summer with all the cool new stuff there as well. But, these are good problems.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borneo View Post
    What's also kinda funny is that people will lap the road climb at East over and over without concern and then complain about a little road connection over in West...
    We will find out Sunday if it is worth the climb at T-west!
    People dont mind climbs when there is a fun way back down. I dont see too many cars at Tiger in the winter even though you can ride all the logging roads years round...

  21. #21
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    I used to hate all the climbing out here with a passion when I first moved to the area, every ride we went on was just an ass kicker. Eventually though you start to find trails where the downhill is worth all the climbing, so I learned to just accept it. Zone out and just grind to the top knowing the best part is to come.

    After a couple years of doing this, lo and behold your legs are stonger and it's not so bad any more.

    Still not as much as going downhill though
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  22. #22
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    So true. Can you imagine the FT3K/Ivan/etc. traffic if there was a lift up the face of east?

    Tarekith, you and Dawgman might want to tie in with Mr. Lynch's crew Sunday. I'm assuming Slop will be guiding for the goods across the GS from East.

    Still in snow season (Thank gawd I'm not in the Alpy line this morning...) but I may be able to get up and feed the Gnome before you all get out there.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borneo View Post
    So true. Can you imagine the FT3K/Ivan/etc. traffic if there was a lift up the face of east?
    Or even, an independent "concessionaire" who could run an hourly weekend shuttle truck up the powerline climb. Similar to how many of the UK skills centers work....or the 'ol "huckwagon"

    Hancock could make a LOT of money! And I think it would solve for a lot of the liability concerns by working through a 3rd party. Lazy riders could still get 10-12 descents in in a single day.

    This is kind of what I was hoping for all along, and the terrain at east would be perfect for it.

    Not sure if we'll ever get there, and the climb is good exercise anyways.

  24. #24
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    Slop is giving us a tour. Sunday 8am, the parking area just past the big traffic circle in fall city.

    It is suppose to dry out this weekend, so hopefully it wont be too bad Sunday, but we ride no matter what!

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    Cool. If anyone knows it as well as me, it's Slop. He'll give you the long term plan too. Have fun!

  26. #26
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    I'll keep it in mind if I'm not working, thanks.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Lynch View Post
    Slop is giving us a tour. Sunday 8am, the parking area just past the big traffic circle in fall city.

    It is suppose to dry out this weekend, so hopefully it wont be too bad Sunday, but we ride no matter what!
    Yep, looking nice for Sunday. I'll be along, too, and looking forward to it. Been too long since I've gotten out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Borneo View Post
    Cool. If anyone knows it as well as me, it's Slop. He'll give you the long term plan too. Have fun!
    He should, he's certainly out there enough. I'm a bit surprised he hasn't built a little hobbit hole up there, but I'm not sure that Kathy would approve of that.

  28. #28
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    I think I'll be arriving with 3 others. We lost one guy who broke his right hand and left pinky on the "rehab" line at the Doof on Sunday.

  29. #29
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    Would love to meet up with you guys. I have soccer duty with the kids Sunday morning, but that is usually a good time for me, so next time. Also have a blown out rear hub and am waiting for some Chinese carbon wheels to be built and shipped. Out for the count until I get my new wheels or I can find a cheap replacement as a back up.

    Never been to West, so would like to learn more and also learn some of the newer trails on East that aren't on the map. I usually stick to FT3, Last Frontier, and OGDH (favorite trail). Looking forward to meeting you all soon.

  30. #30
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    Here's one of Thomas' many videos of West for a taste. Slop will be taking Lynch et al up this to get in (Was actually built as a climbing trail from the Monster/Bra area for the 2005 MR Ride out there.) and then down it on the way back out Sunday.

    Tokul West - Bobsled - YouTube

  31. #31
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    I don't think I've ever been *up* Bobsled. That should be interesting.

    The lower part of PR is gone, isn't it?

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    It's easier than you think.

    Yes, the entrance/exit to the SVT is blocked by the logging. Lower BP was left pretty wide open by the loggers as they said they would which is awesome though. Hoping they stay with that theme as they go up the hill.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agate View Post
    Yep, looking nice for Sunday. I'll be along, too, and looking forward to it. Been too long since I've gotten out.



    He should, he's certainly out there enough. I'm a bit surprised he hasn't built a little hobbit hole up there, but I'm not sure that Kathy would approve of that.
    Who's to say I haven't already; just me and the Beer Gnome under that stump

    Beaver Pond was clear last weekend except for one small area near the lowest skid rd. the problem is the skid roads are mud ugly right now from the trucks. However, if upper BP is still uncut than we can go up that way. Lower Pink Ribbon...they started cutting the drop into it and its toast but we will rebuild it after they're all done

  34. #34
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    Wouldn't surprise me.

    What about upper Pink Ribbon?

  35. #35
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    Upper PInk Ribbon is good and will get better...

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    It's just that getting to upper Pink Ribbon means you have to travel on a road for part of it, and they are being used for logging now and are (probably) a mess. I haven't been up since the 16th when I avoided the roads while they are actively there logging. Now that it's thawed and wet, I will probably avoid going up the roads entirely until they dry out again. I might go down them if I'm coming down to the top of PR. That isn't very likely now with the trails Poopy D and The Middle available.

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    T-East Tailhead mayhem

    I was last up in TWest on the 22nd. Me and another cleared off the little debris from lower BP trail to the messed up road landing.

    I'll be heading up there tomorrow to ride and see what Upper Pink Ribbon looks like.

    Cheers,
    Mike

  38. #38
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    Does West drain as nice as East does?

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    T-East Tailhead mayhem

    West does drain well. Fwiw, I've ridden up Bobsled lots and its only got a couple tricky bits.

    I want to cleanup some Pink Ribbon DH section so you all can go out that way for some fun ending. I'll let you know how far I get tomorrow.

    Cheers
    Mike

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    Do any of you ride a SS at T-East or West? All this talk about Tokul makes me want to get out there again; it has been a few years since I last rode there. I primarily ride a SS at GR and Sawyer. Any of you have thoughts on riding a SS at Tokul?

  41. #41
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    Slop does occasionally during the winter. Don't think I personally know of anyone else that does.


    Thanks for getting out there, Mike. PR is definitely a fun way to end a ride out there.

  42. #42
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    I ride SS a lot out there in the winter. It's perfect for SS, with only a few climbs that require a push, and you can avoid those with slightly different routing.

    If you can SS that heinous climb on GR (heading S toward GR Drive), Tokul will be easy.

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    Juice, thanks. Sounds good. Yea, I ride GR from the Seattle side over to Duthie, so avoiding the climb back is not possible unless I take the road around. That's not going to happen. But you are right, parts of the climb back to GR Dr. are a major a$$ pain. I have considered moving from a 32/20 to a 32/21 because of GR, but the former is already compromise in other areas that I ride around here.

  44. #44
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    Like juice said. Tokul is a perfect ss winter riding spot. The road up to FT has the perfect one speed pitch. I get a kick out of trucking past spinning ninnies on their over sized squishy bikes.
    Only bummer is a broken toe has left me painfully out of ss shape.

  45. #45
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    You guys have a rough idea on how long you plan to ride for on Sunday? Definitely going to try and make it out there for a tour, just trying to reschedule some work so I can.
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  46. #46
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    I'd guess we'll be back to the parking lot by 11, maybe noon at the latest, and that's if we do a loop of GS and FT. I'll let Slop chime in, though, since he probably already has a route planned out.

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    T-East Tailhead mayhem

    Agate is up to speed on all the trails I raked today. Lots logging near by but these trails are "safe" for the time being. Have fun on Sunday...wish I could join you.

    Cheers,
    Mike

  48. #48
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    I'm going to have to assume that you meant Peter, Mike, since I'm fairly certain that we didn't talk yesterday.

  49. #49
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    Great. Hopefully if eveything works out still I'll be there at 8, copper Acura RSX with a black Rcky Mtn Slayer on the back. If not, work stuff came up over night (grumble) so please don't wait.
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  50. #50
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    Nice! We will be in a Gray Forester with 3 or 4 bikes on it!

  51. #51
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    A nice shot from today's ride, taken from the crossover trail from Bon Bon towards Golden Spike. Right around 1000' of elevation and where the fog layer starts.

    T-East Tailhead mayhem-tokul-light-002-retouched-721x1280-.jpg

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    T-East Tailhead mayhem

    Agate...oops. Yup, Peter.

    I rode bobsled, BonBon, MoonRaker, Mousetrap, Outhouse, steakhouse, Outback, Middle, PoopyD and back down Bobsled. All rolling great today.
    Actually saw 4 other riders up there...so crowded. ;-)

    Have fun tomorrow.

    Cheers,
    Mike

  53. #53
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    Re: T-East Tailhead mayhem

    Quote Originally Posted by DRSpalding View Post
    A nice shot from today's ride, taken from the crossover trail from Bon Bon towards Golden Spike. Right around 1000' of elevation and where the fog layer starts.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Tokul Light 002 (retouched) (721x1280).jpg 
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    That is one of the coolest pictures I've seen!

  54. #54
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    T-East Tailhead mayhem

    @slop, I'm offended. I'm equally slow on any bike, geared or not. How dare you!!!
    I'll be along... eventually.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by innovator8 View Post
    That is one of the coolest pictures I've seen!
    Thanks! I really wish I had my good camera with me and a tripod. I could have gotten some exquisitely detailed shots.

  56. #56
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    Just got back from our ride! 8 of us got a nice tour from Slop. I think we got around 15 miles in. It was muddy in spots put overall the trails were in decent shape for being mid winter. It is sad to see all the logging, but the future trails planned sound like a lot of fun.
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  57. #57
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    Really fun ride this AM for sure, thanks for showing us around Slop. Sorry I had to bail a little early, knee was starting to act up and I wanted to end with a smile not a grimace today
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  58. #58
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    Did the Tour Saturday afternoon. Amazing amount of logging all the way up the road from Beaver to Golden Spike. I actually missed the turn to Out/Steakhouse it looked so different.

    Tried Poopy D for the first time (need the story on that name sometime). That's a good rip. Got to pay attention on that one with all the surprise s-turns. Needs some fern transplants to lock in the line.

    BTW, Golden Spike is 25% mud right now. Ride-able but not the best time of year.

    The full Upper-Ivan to Midtown combo is the best trail in the Seattle area IMO. Long, technical, fast, steep, challenging, fun. Just missing views. Thanks for the fresh grading work and bridge repair.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by msylvan View Post
    @slop, I'm offended. I'm equally slow on any bike, geared or not. How dare you!!!
    I'm guessing you can go in the "with gravity" direction at a nice clip.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Navigator View Post
    The full Upper-Ivan to Midtown combo is the best trail in the Seattle area IMO. Long, technical, fast, steep, challenging, fun. Just missing views. Thanks for the fresh grading work and bridge repair.
    I rode this for the first time yesterday. It is a great trail! Conditions were really good for mid-winter. I hope to do some more riding there over the spring time.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by slop View Post
    I'm guessing you can go in the "with gravity" direction at a nice clip.
    Will pedal for beer

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    Will pedal for beer
    Zing, another winner.
    Say hello to my little friend, the Beer Gnome.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails T-East Tailhead mayhem-image.jpg  


  63. #63
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    Any chance we can get Upper Ivan, Midtown, and OGDH updated on the maps? I know OGDH well, but it has been a few years since I went up top to Ivan and have no clue where Midtown is or a few of these other hidden trails are I keep reading about. Maybe it is intended?

  64. #64
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    I think Hancock is real protective of the area and doesnt want full maps out or something. Not totally sure.
    To find Midtown you ride the connect trail that heads over to Ivan, and when you hit the area where the "No Tresspassing" signs are, the Midtown trail breaks off to the left and heads down the hill.

    We will probably ride up there this coming Sunday if you (or anyone else) wants to tag along!
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  65. #65
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    There's an issue with Upper Ivan and the entrance to Midtown. We all know this since there's "no trespassing" signs.

    PLEASE DON'T GO THROUGH THOSE SIGNS OR ONTO THE NON-HANCOCK LAND THERE.

    I was up there night riding with a few other guys, and we think we saw game camera's, so they're taking the no-trespassing seriously.

    The way to access Ivan and Midtown without crossing the private land (meaning non-Hancock) is this:

    At the top of the power lines, before you cross the metal gate, follow the logging road that goes downhill towards Ivan. After a couple hundred yards, you'll see Midtown come out onto the logging road. Keep going a little ways until you see an access trail (old road bed) on your right. Climb up that and at the top go right for Midtown and left for Crazy Ivan.

    This is totally based on memory. Can someone add to my description to make it easier to understand?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpryIP View Post
    Do any of you ride a SS at T-East or West? All this talk about Tokul makes me want to get out there again; it has been a few years since I last rode there. I primarily ride a SS at GR and Sawyer. Any of you have thoughts on riding a SS at Tokul?
    I've ridden SS there a pretty good bit, I love it. I haven't been back there since the logging though, looking forward to that. Maybe this weekend...

    By the way; I'd love to ride with some other SS'ers, I'm the only one I know.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by juice View Post
    PLEASE DON'T GO THROUGH THOSE SIGNS OR ONTO THE NON-HANCOCK LAND THERE.

    This is totally based on memory. Can someone add to my description to make it easier to understand?
    I'll add a few details.

    Find the powerline logging road Juice describes, which goes downhill into the woods. After a moment it flattens out, even goes a bit uphill. This is where midtown crosses over. Watch for a left here. You can take this and ride the lower 3/4 of midtown, which begins with a short climb over a knoll.

    If you pass the left to midtown and continue on the logging road from the powerlines, watch on the right side- there will be a trail peeling off on the uphill side, above the road. Once you're on this, watch for an immediate sharp right which goes straight uphill- not ridable by most mortals. This takes you right up to the crazy ivan pumptrack.

    Now the money route!
    From the powerline access road, ride the middle 2/3'rds of midtown as described above. When you cross the road after the middle section of minefield, take a RIGHT and start climbing. Watch on your LEFT side for the trail on the uphill side which goes up to the pumptrack (then take the first right to the steep push). Same as described previously, but your coming at it from the opposite direction.

    I dig this route since it gets you the middle 2/3rd's of minefield, and all of crazy Ivan, with sort of a "climb and a half". You only miss the XC portion of Ivan (including the trespassing bit) and the top and bottom sections of midtown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by juice View Post
    There's an issue with Upper Ivan and the entrance to Midtown. We all know this since there's "no trespassing" signs.

    PLEASE DON'T GO THROUGH THOSE SIGNS OR ONTO THE NON-HANCOCK LAND THERE.

    I was up there night riding with a few other guys, and we think we saw game camera's, so they're taking the no-trespassing seriously.

    The way to access Ivan and Midtown without crossing the private land (meaning non-Hancock) is this:

    At the top of the power lines, before you cross the metal gate, follow the logging road that goes downhill towards Ivan. After a couple hundred yards, you'll see Midtown come out onto the logging road. Keep going a little ways until you see an access trail (old road bed) on your right. Climb up that and at the top go right for Midtown and left for Crazy Ivan.

    This is totally based on memory. Can someone add to my description to make it easier to understand?

    JVP...you go hard right up that old road with the little 'whoops', right? Takes you up to the pumptrack?
    Taking it easy for all you sinners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    I'll add a few details.

    Find the powerline logging road Juice describes, which goes downhill into the woods. After a moment it flattens out, even goes a bit uphill. This is where midtown crosses over. Watch for a left here. You can take this and ride the lower 3/4 of midtown, which begins with a short climb over a knoll.

    If you pass the left to midtown and continue on the logging road from the powerlines, watch on the right side- there will be a trail peeling off on the uphill side, above the road. Once you're on this, watch for an immediate sharp right which goes straight uphill- not ridable by most mortals. This takes you right up to the crazy ivan pumptrack.

    Now the money route!
    From the powerline access road, ride the middle 2/3'rds of midtown as described above. When you cross the road after the middle section of minefield, take a RIGHT and start climbing. Watch on your LEFT side for the trail on the uphill side which goes up to the pumptrack (then take the first right to the steep push). Same as described previously, but your coming at it from the opposite direction.

    I dig this route since it gets you the middle 2/3rd's of minefield, and all of crazy Ivan, with sort of a "climb and a half". You only miss the XC portion of Ivan (including the trespassing bit) and the top and bottom sections of midtown.
    Ah, nevermind JVP...FM's description is what I was looking for!
    Taking it easy for all you sinners.

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    TE Updated Map?

    Going back one day to Dawgman's post, does anyone have the time to post an updated map of TE other than what's posted on EMBA? I don't care if it's on a bar napkin from the Last Frontier Tavern (assuming they use napkins), just looking for a cleaner map on how to get to the trails around Ivan and where the non-Hancock land is. I'm hoping to ride there ASAP. Thanks..

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    Yes please, I'd love a map too. Even if passed discreetly via PM's
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  72. #72
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    That steep old road with the "whoops" in it takes you right to the pump track/Ivan/KGB and basically allows you to avoid the private property.
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    Which steep old road? People keep referencing other trails or roads to get to the newer trails, but if you don't know the area well or the old trails, it doesn't help much. I'm going to just have to spend a few days lost out there again I think, or tag along on more group rides I guess
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarekith View Post
    Which steep old road? People keep referencing other trails or roads to get to the newer trails, but if you don't know the area well or the old trails, it doesn't help much. I'm going to just have to spend a few days lost out there again I think, or tag along on more group rides I guess
    +1 on this. Don't understand why with Hancock now charging for access there still isn't a good map of the area. It's not like it will cause damage, if anything it'll help people avoid where they are not suppose to be.

  75. #75
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    Most people who know there way around out there just explored on their own without a map... However, if you NEED a map look on Strava... Every single trail is mapped multiple times.

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    You know where Crazy Ivan ends and comes out on the road? If you take that road up the hill, normally you would go right and ride Lower Ivan, but if you go left it leads to a old skidder road/ trail that is pretty steep and has "whoops" in it. That trail will take you back up to pumptrack. That skidder road runs along a logging road for a bit that you can use to access it.
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    I'm pretty sure that Slop has an updated map in the works. He'll have to say how far along it is, though, and whether or not he's doing both West and East.

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    Yes, in work with Westra and on some cool new mapping program and will include West and East.

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    Awesome, thanks for the update.
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    T-East Tailhead mayhem

    Awesome! Very appreciative of the effort to improve this map. Will be nice to finally know which trails and logging roads you guys are talking about when I ride there.

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    Just got back from wandering around out there, perfect day for a ride too. Trails were in excellent shape, and I think I finally found some of the trails you guys are talking about. The one that starts at the top of the pump track (very cool btw, didn't realize it was a real pump track!) and has all the rediculously steep switchbacks is Crazy Ivan, right? Then when that ends, you go left up the old logging road a couple hundred yards and take a right onto Midfield yes? The one that ends by the old red car in the woods?

    Those are A and B on this map?

    https://img546.imageshack.us/img546/4233/tokul0208.jpg

    What trail is the one I labelled C then? I always use that one when leaving for the day, never knew what it was called. Loved the new little side trails with the jumps on that one, very fun.
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  82. #82
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    'A' and 'B' are upper and lower Crazy Ivan, respectively. 'C' is OGDH.

    Midtown starts from the top of the knoll right above the C on your map.

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    Thank you, that helps a lot.
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    Ok, that is Midtown. I always thought that was just OGDH from the top all the way down. That explains a lot about some of these posts now and brings some clarity. So technically, OGDH doesn't start until you hit the lower road and climb up a bit?

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    OGDH starts under the powerlines on the left. I've never actually rode the trail the leads to it from the top.

    The trail I'm curious about is the one on the left, two switchbacks above OGDH. It appears to be recently restored. We plan on checking it out on Sunday.
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    I was surprised just how many trails out there looked like they had recently been worked on.
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    Re: T-East Tailhead mayhem

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Lynch View Post
    OGDH starts under the powerlines on the left. I've never actually rode the trail the leads to it from the top.

    The trail I'm curious about is the one on the left, two switchbacks above OGDH. It appears to be recently restored. We plan on checking it out on Sunday.
    Eddy and me will meet you at 745 Aug parking lot off of 356th, right?

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    I've always considered the "OG" to start way back up at the top of the climb to the left and crossing the switchbacks on the way down. Then climbing back up under the power lines for the last section. The one on the East side of the power lines is actually fairly new and built by some local kids a few years back. One steep ball bearingly section and sorta short. Need to finish "Second Secret" (for all you Fromme fans out there) some day near there... Will be out in West cleaning things up tomorrow.

  89. #89
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    sounds good!
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    Assume it was packed over there today... Only 4 others in West that I saw...

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borneo View Post
    Assume it was packed over there today... Only 4 others in West that I saw...
    Seems like East drains better maybe?
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    there is a reason for that...
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  93. #93
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    I was trying to be more polite about it

    West is the place I think of in terms of it being a workout. It's the place to get in some miles, prep the climbing legs for summer (or maintain in the winter), and generally just put miles on the bikes for fitness sake.

    East is where I go to have fun.
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    If I didn't have a hand in building some of that east fun I'd be hurt by that statement...

    They both drain the same. East gets a little more of the compressional heating right before a front rolls in that dries it out a little better. Go ride Safety First in East and see if anything in West is that wet...

  95. #95
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    I think it's just different styles of trails to different styles of riding. I'd love to ride Safety First and check it out, but I can't find it on my map.
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    I'm just messing with Borneo! West is a fun place and a little different in style than East. I think west would be idea for a short travel 29er. The trails are fun, just a lot shorter for the most part. I cant wait to see the area when the logging is done and the new stuff is in place!

    I personally will ride West way before I go back to Tolt, but that's a whole other can of worms...
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  97. #97
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    Got out there by 9 this AM, and luckily still got a parking spot. Still barely saw anyone out there except on the SVT, and it was a beautiful morning too. Ok, so the trail traced in red is Midfield, correct?

    https://img826.imageshack.us/img826/3082/tokul0210.jpg

    That is a REALLY fun and technical trail, especially slick as it was today. Couldn't even walk down some spot, just had to slide down on two wheels hoping to stay upright Really looking forward to trying that again once it dries out just a bit more on some of the steeper spots. And now I know where it starts so I won't have to walk up the upper part of it
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    You just missed us. We started riding right about 9. Started with 8, lost one due to a big crash on Flowtron (the first big drop), lost another due to mechanical issues, two others left after after riding Midtown, and then two got seperated on the way to Crazy Ivan and ended up going down Midtown again.

    We talked to 5 or 6 guys up near the pumptrack and the lot was full when we left at 11.
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  99. #99
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    Yeah, I missed the turn off for Crazy Ivan while on Midtown too. At least now that I'm slowly making pieces of my own map, I can see how to string some of the trails together better.

    Question. So while you're riding on the SVT towards the climb to flowtron, you pass three trails coming down on your left. Crazy Ivan, Midtown, ???, and then the end of OGDH. Is the ??? trail something you can climb up to get to Ivan and Midtown easier? Seems like there's got to be an easier way to get to the pump track than going all the way around to the Powerline climb, no?
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    The second trail is actually originally the old horse trail that climbs the clearcut to a landing with a hitching rail. You can take that road to trail up to where Midtown crosses or take it all the way to the top of the power lines. Either way, you're climbing.

  101. #101
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    I don't mind the climbing, I was just wondering if that was another way up to the road that crosses Midtown. Just to mix it up some and not always have to ride out to the powerline trail over and over.
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    Yep. That's it then. More hike a bike than riding the last time I did if I recall. But, gets you there quicker.

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    As long as it's easier than hiking lower Ivan or Midtown, I'm fine with that. Not easy as I've discovered first hand on both trails this week
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    Flowtron has had a ton of work done in the last few weeks. There are several new drops on it, and the muddy swamp crossing area has been fixed up really nice. I'll post video of the changes tonight!

    Midtown is wearing in nicely and how much better flow now. It is getting a lot of skid ruts, but that's to be expected due to the steep terrain and soft topsoil.
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    I was really impressed with Flowtron on Sunday. The first few corners aren't so tight and the features definitely raise the pucker factor. I would still love to see the first corner be built up a bit more to carry speed from Neutron into Flowtron. It seems to me the angle is there to build a nice banked wall to drop in. The step up jump was a fun addition as well. What was carved into the mini bridge over the swamp? I couldn't read what it said. The swamp was a nice improvement as well. I used to always see someone in our group go off of the old sketchy ramp which was fun for entertainment value.

    Thank you to everyone who has been working on this trail.

  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawgman25 View Post
    What was carved into the mini bridge over the swamp? I couldn't read what it said. The swamp was a nice improvement as well.
    HLC, of course!

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    Aha! Nice touch. Was going over that section with speed for the first time evar, so couldn't decipher it. I really will miss seeing the occasional plunge into that swamp...always good for a few laughs and some good ribbing. I have seen a few tires slip out on the old build.

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    The falls into the black goo mire off the Bog Log were worse....

    Glad I never did.

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    I actually have video of 2 guys climbing out of that thing. One guy tipped over and went in feet first. When he pulled his left foot out his shoe stayed in the mud and it filled up. We were laughing pretty hard as he attempted to pour the muddy goo out.

    The other guy went into the goo pit on his side and came up with one arm and one leg completely covered. He had on a light tan long sleeve jersey and brown shorts, so the addition of the goo made it look like he had a two tone Troy Lee outfit on. His nickname has been "swamp thing" ever since!
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    The first time I took my brother in law there he slid off the logs and stepped up to his thigh in nasty mud. I had to cheer for him when he made it mud free yesterday.

    And maybe it's just me, but I think I actually like Flowtron better now in the clear cut compared to in the trees.
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    It's just you....

    Actually, I like the view but miss the old, early, "before discovered" version....

    I have a video of that with all the woodwork and the Bog Log, etc. But, it won't upload to mtbr...

    Going up Beaver Pond in West Saturday, I was pretty stoked actually about the views we will get now.

  112. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borneo View Post
    I have a video of that with all the woodwork and the Bog Log, etc. But, it won't upload to mtbr...
    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/4-Rj9PjaN1w?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    .............................

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    Classic. I wonder how many people fell into that bog? I saw enough people fall with just the tiny bridge. I could line up on this one on a busy Saturday and be quite entertained!

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    Classic indeed. FM, can you send that to me via e-mail? (All I have is the old .mpg file.)

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    My first riding in Tokul east/west was around Jan 4 this year, and as a more novice level rider compared to others posting here, I wanted to give another perspective of riding these areas for anyone interested in giving these trails a ride.

    In west, there are several very fun trails including Upper Outback, Outback, Out House, Steak House, Bon Bon (I think that's what I was on), both of the trails in The Middle, and Full Bench (tight downhill turns on an exposed face. I don't mind telling you it was kind of intense). These trails are not as steep as the trails I've ridden on the east side, but do include some fun ups and downs as well as things to clear. Also the area including Black Bear, Sticker Boy and the other trails were fun but mostly level riding with logs to clear, etc. I rode these a couple weeks ago over frozen ground. They may be pretty boggy right now. I rode the Beaver Pond trail last weekend and I enjoyed the grunt up it and it was a fun ride back down. At the top of the west area, west of the entrance to Upper Outback and adjacent to the start of Bon Bon (I think), there is a trail that goes left into the forest and comes out at the power lines. Go right and I assume you go to the Eastside. Go straight and you go back through the forest and then come out on another forest road. All this riding is fun riding IMO. There is a trail that goes up from the SVT called Tobogan that is fun both up and down. Near the top it goes right along the edge of a very steep dropoff which is kind of cool, and has several obstacles to clear along the trail.

    In the east, like I said, I found the trails to be steeper and more technically difficult. I went on Flowtron a couple weeks ago and quickly realized I was in over my head. I survived the ride, but it was doubtful for several of the turns. My suggestion is to ride Mouse Trap on the Westside first, and if that goes well, MAYBE think about Flowtron. From what's been said above, it sounds like Flowtron is more difficult now than when I rode it a couple weeks ago. Of course it's your health, so have at it if that's your style. West of the Flowtron entrance, there is a trail heading due north that isn't on my map. It crosses 2 partially overgrown roads until coming out on a third road. Go left on the third road and it takes you to the west side. This trail is more of a "west" type of trail. Little ups and downs with obsticles to clear. Muddy in places. I liked it. To the west of the power lines in the flat area before the road climbs up to the top, there is a trail that drops back down to the SVT coming out next to the beginning of the road up. It is a lot of fun. There are I think 2 other trails to the west of the one I'm describing, but I haven't figured out how to get to them yet. From looking at the map, these other two are probably steeper. There are other trails out there I haven't been able to find yet. I was told Gun Range is fun, but I've not ridden it.

    In all, I can see how more advanced riders would spend more time on the eastside, but don't miss the westside. There is a lot of fun to be had out there.

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    That's a good point, I guess some err... heads up, is in order. If you struggle with Flowtron, you DO NOT want to go on Midtown or Crazy Ivan, those are way more technical and steep/loose.

    I didn't mean to come across as bashing West either, the trails are good and yes fun, they are just very similar to a lot of other trails I ride too. The stuff I like on East feels unique for the area, you don't often get steep and tight switchbacks like that with IMBA trail guidelines.
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  117. #117
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    Thanks for the info. My map shows a couple trails, one called Clearcut and the other called Kamikaze. How would you describe those? My next trip out there I was planning on hike a biking up them to figure out where the entrance is. What do you think?

  118. #118
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    I was told last week on the West ride that Kamikazee is more or less overgrown now and not rideable. No idea on clearcut.
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  119. #119
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    Kamikaze was quite overgrown last I heard, and even when it was first 'found' and put on the maps didn't get enough traffic to really become defined. Clearcut used to get some traffic so is probably rideable. It crosses private property at the exit though and really isn't the most fun way back down. There's not really much reason to get out to the top of clearcut now that the views aren't as good at the old overlook. I wouldn't go up either of these trails.

    Quote Originally Posted by freakybro View Post
    Thanks for the info. My map shows a couple trails, one called Clearcut and the other called Kamikaze. How would you describe those? My next trip out there I was planning on hike a biking up them to figure out where the entrance is. What do you think?

  120. #120
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    T-East Tailhead mayhem

    I tried to find Kamikaze on Sunday. Found the start of the upper section no problem...and found the last 100 meters of the trail...that's about all that remains. The rest is hikeabike at best. Horses use it still but the brush is so thick I spent about 5 mins clearing my rear cassette just to get home. Stay away from Kamikaze and Clearcut for now.

    Cheers,
    Mike

  121. #121
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    lastest video of Flowtron...

    Tokul East -Flowtron -Feb 2013 - YouTube

    it should finish uploading any minute.
    20 SJ Evo 29, 20 DB Release 29, 18 Vitus Dominer DH

  122. #122
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    Thanks for sharing. I'm looking forward to getting out there this year.

    Question for the experienced here. I've seen a couple of midtown videos and it seems like its going to be pretty difficult that first time down. What are some other trails I could tackle and build up some skills for those super tight corners? or is it just a matter of just trying it? I've ridden lower Ivan a few times successfully (meaning, made it down ) and upper Ivan was too much for me. Just wanted to give a frame of reference. I also didn't go out to Tokul at all last year so its been some time. Last year was mostly Duthie and Tiger for me.

    -joel

  123. #123
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    You could always ride Cuss Hollow at Duthie... Somebody should.

    There is a trail in the flats of T-East that ties into ODGH on the left on the way down that has a few switchbacks. Don't think the WeyCo logging got that far North. There's Full Bench over in T-West too. You can ride those, you can ride Midtown.

    Videos: pumping up everyone around to go ride Tokul. (Kinda dumb thing to do IMHO to ensure trail integrity but that's another thread.) Which gets me back to the original post. Be kind, quiet, and clean after ourselves at the TH.

  124. #124
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    IMO Midtown is more technical than Ivan, so I think I would try working on that first. Maybe even just hiking up part of Upper Ivan so you can work on a few of the lower switchbacks until you get comfortable enough to try the whole thing.
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  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borneo View Post
    You could always ride Cuss Hollow at Duthie... Somebody should.
    For what it's worth, I ride Cuss every coupla weeks- cussing you and any other builders every time on the 2nd to last uphill (left turn) switchback that I can only sometimes clean, but enjoying it none the less! It's a great trail option.

  126. #126
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    I ride Cuss Hollow everytime I'm at Duthie. I can ride it clean most times, but the biggest enjoyment is listening to my buddies on XL bikes complain the whole way!

    I think Midtown is more technical than Crazy Ivan overall, but Crazy Ivan has a couple turns that are much more difficult (atleast for me) that anything on Midtown.
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  127. #127
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    Beautiful day out there today, trails are primo. Only was two other riders out there (thanks for letting me borrow the shock pump!).

    Did have one strange thing though, I ran into a horse rider coming UP upper crazy Ivan. I know they are multi use trails, but is this normal? Not much room for passing, me and trail dog looked at each other like "really?"
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  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarekith View Post

    Did have one strange thing though, I ran into a horse rider coming UP upper crazy Ivan. I know they are multi use trails, but is this normal? Not much room for passing, me and trail dog looked at each other like "really?"
    Wow, I've never seen them up there. However there are horses on lower Ivan and they seem to be steadily eroding that part of the trail.

    Anybody notice all that woodpecker action on a tree right next to the big stump after one of the switchbacks on lower Ivan? It's pretty impressive work.

  129. #129
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    Alright, time to brave the parking madness and get back out to Tokul. I used to ride it all the time, it'll be a mind-f to see it without trees.

    Here's a thing, when I bought my pass in January their instructions alluded to me getting something more formal than a print out in the mail, and it never happened.
    I assume I can just shove the permit paper in my pack and be alright?
    Does my car need anything on it?

  130. #130
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    The only thing on the East side without trees is Flowtron as far as I know.

    I just printed the permit out when I bought it and keep it in my pack. The parking lot is not on Handcock property, so there's nothing you need for that. If you go on the weekend, get there early though, it's been filling up fast.
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  131. #131
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    Cool, thanks.
    I'm usually done by the time most people are sober enough for two wheels anyway.

  132. #132
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    I've been getting there 7:30-8:00 or so the last couple of times and the lot's been half to 3/4 full already, FWIW.
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  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarekith View Post
    The only thing on the East side without trees is Flowtron as far as I know.
    Upper OGDH and Last Frontier were both in the clearcut area, and have not been rebuilt.

    There's also gunrange, which was previously clearcut & rebuilt.

  134. #134
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    Re the permit, I read the instructions to say you had to have the permit and a picture id available if asked.

  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    Upper OGDH and Last Frontier were both in the clearcut area, and have not been rebuilt.

    There's also gunrange, which was previously clearcut & rebuilt.
    Which needs to be cleared, according to Borneo. After another party cut off the exit to the gate (now being private property), that area seems to get little love. It's too bad, because that trail over there is short but sweet, and there is so much space to build. A certain gnome started a trail on the rocky bluff, but never completed it due to a theft of all his tools.

    Just sayin'....
    Today I will gladly share my experience and advice, for there are no sweeter words than "I told you so."

  136. #136
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    Nasai, we need to get back over and clear Dodgeball and Bandwagon and folks will come back over for that loop too once Safety First starts getting more use. (Needs a re-build too.) Slop mentioned maybe getting some locals interested in some fun "shore" style stuff around the rock pile too. Would be a shame to waste that fun terrain. Bummed about the horses on Ivan. Wonder if they will start going up MidTown too? Grrrrr....

  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borneo View Post
    Nasai, we need to get back over and clear Dodgeball and Bandwagon and folks will come back over for that loop too once Safety First starts getting more use. (Needs a re-build too.) Slop mentioned maybe getting some locals interested in some fun "shore" style stuff around the rock pile too. Would be a shame to waste that fun terrain. Bummed about the horses on Ivan. Wonder if they will start going up MidTown too? Grrrrr....
    Yes, I do need to do that.

    Shore type stuff on the bluff would be awesome. There's already a nice twisty trail built in there at the moment, up on top. Probably a lot of trees across it now, but I always wanted to complete it and the climb into the trees..... Guess I need to buy a pass.
    Today I will gladly share my experience and advice, for there are no sweeter words than "I told you so."

  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarekith View Post
    Beautiful day out there today, trails are primo. Only was two other riders out there (thanks for letting me borrow the shock pump!).

    Did have one strange thing though, I ran into a horse rider coming UP upper crazy Ivan. I know they are multi use trails, but is this normal? Not much room for passing, me and trail dog looked at each other like "really?"
    It was early last summer when I first saw the signs of horse hooves on upper Ivan. I really didn't think a horse could make it up a trail that steep. It would've been impressive to watch. I guess it must be for the challenge? I'm not sure because I don't ride horses but it wouldn't seem all that much fun riding up a very steep rutted trail with tight switchbacks.

  139. #139
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    Didn't look like he was having fun, but he seemed determined.
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  140. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarekith View Post
    Didn't look like he was having fun, but he seemed determined.
    Older guy? Looks like he's been sucking a lemon? Might be the same d-nozzle who Muttonchops encountered on OGDH about a month ago. I'll let mutton tell the whole story, however, the long and short was that he tried to be friendly and courteous, but the dude just cursed at him.

    Definitely a nasty user conflict waiting to happen.

  141. #141
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    Yeah, maybe in his late 40's, though he seemed nice enough, just a bit clueless.
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  142. #142
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    At one point there were trail features/routing which prevented equestrians or motorcycles from going up crazy ivan. These features also prevented riders from carrying excessive speed out onto the SVT.

    Somebody took it on themselves to remove these, and now we have increased maintenance & trail erosion and higher chances of user conflicts as a result.
    Oh well
    Last edited by FM; 02-20-2013 at 01:21 PM.

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