Just published our new tire test: DHF/DHR, Butcher/Purgatory and Hans Dampf/Nobby Nic- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Just published our new tire test: DHF/DHR, Butcher/Purgatory and Hans Dampf/Nobby Nic

    We just published our latest tire test comparing several popular tires intended for more aggressive trail riding (DH-F/DH-R, Butcher/Purgatory, Hans Dampf/Nobby Nic): Pacific Northwest Spring 2016 Enduro Tire Test: Hans Dampf/Nobby Nic, DH-F/DH-R, Butcher/ Purgatory ? DIRT MERCHANT BIKES
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  2. #2
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    Thorough test results as always - thanks for doing these!
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  3. #3
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    I'm using the high roller 2 right now for a front tire and was thinking about trying the DHF. I'd love to see a head to head comparison of those two, they both seem like a popular choice for around here.

    Thanks for the reviews.

  4. #4
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    We did test the High Roller 2 previously: Pacific Northwest Winter 2015 Tire Comparison Test 1: 2015 Nobby Nic, High Roller II, Neo-Moto & Hans Dampf ? DIRT MERCHANT BIKES

    The High Roller 2 has high cornering limits but isn't as communicative in terms of steering feedback as the DH-F. Between the two, my vote would definitely be for the DHF.
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  5. #5
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    Great review. I was wondering though the tests on Grand Ridge are generally consist of hard pack trails. Next year, possibly even another tire test later this year, if the conditions the tires are tested on are more varied conditions, such as loose over hard pack.

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the thorough review.

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    Great review. Would love to see the new e-thirteens tested next.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dawgman25 View Post
    Great review. Would love to see the new e-thirteens tested next.
    The new e*Thirteen tires look sweet. Pinkbike said: "e*thirteen's TRS Race tires offer some of the best all-round wet weather performance on the market". Music to my ears & looking forward to trying out a set in the fall. Maybe earlier.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre View Post
    The new e*Thirteen tires look sweet. Pinkbike said: "e*thirteen's TRS Race tires offer some of the best all-round wet weather performance on the market". Music to my ears & looking forward to trying out a set in the fall. Maybe earlier.
    All I am interested in seeing is some Nobby Nic's on a new RFX. Getting anxious!

  10. #10
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    I'll give an A for effort, but C- for execution. How can you expect a rider that weighs 80lbs less than another to run the same tyre pressures that 80lb heavier riders runs, that's just insane, absolutely insane Am I the only one who read and comprehended that??
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    You raise a very good point Lynx. I ride GR a lot and the difference between losing traction on some corners and gripping them well can be a few PSI. I like to ride 20 psi front and 22 psi back on wide Derby rims. If I get up to 24-26 PSI, I am sliding in corners and losing traction. My tires are bouncing in the corners with too much PSI.

    To add to this, was the suspension set up correctly for these riders? That could be a huge difference in results as well. I can't tell if they were all on the same bike or all using different bikes set up properly.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    I'll give an A for effort, but C- for execution. How can you expect a rider that weighs 80lbs less than another to run the same tyre pressures that 80lb heavier riders runs, that's just insane, absolutely insane Am I the only one who read and comprehended that??
    Couple points from both an experience and methodology standpoint as well as a question for you about methodology. I added lap times to my last Summer 2015 XC Tire Comparison Test based on a forum reply so I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on how to determine ideal tire pressures in an A/B comparison test format.

    1. Experience: What I've found is that though tire pressure can make a good tire better, it absolutely won't transform a poorly performing tire. A good example of this was our testing of the Trail King which I've ridden since 2009. The pressures I've used in the Trail King have been 35 psi with tubes, 30 psi tubeless before testing. At both pressures, the Trail King behaved the same in cornering ability which was about what I expected from any mountain bike tire at the time. When pre-riding some of the tires slated for the test, I realized that the Trail King did not have nearly the cornering ability of some of the other tires in the test. I then tested tire pressures down to 20 psi which had some beneficial impact on cornering performance, but not a night-and-day difference. Also, dropping tire pressure negatively impacted rolling resistance. Even with the ideal pressure for cornering traction, the Trail Kings lacked the amount of traction that the Mountain King II, Vigilante, Hans Dampf and the Magic Mary were able to provide.

    The subjective qualities of a tire don't change that much with pressure, though you can shift the balance between traction and rolling resistance a bit.

    2. Methodology: My test procedure is grounded in the choice of having multiple riders test tires on the same day in the same conditions in an A/B format versus one rider optimizing all variables for their individual situation. I believe there is value in having multiple riders providing feedback on the same tires in similar conditions.

    I set tire pressures at 30psi for two reasons. From a liability perspective, I wanted to make sure tire pressures were at a level so that burping was not a likely event. Having a rolled tire and a rider injury would probably mean the end of doing these tests. From a practical perspective, each of the test riders rides one test loop on each of 3-5 sets of tires. It would be nice to set ideal pressures, but the process of finding ideal pressures alone would take at least 2-3 additional runs per tire combination. I don't know of a good way to find ideal tire pressures and run the tests all in a 3.5 hour test session on one day.

    Question for you: Any thoughts on how might I be able to determine and adjust for ideal tire pressures to suit each rider with the following constraints:
    a. Tire pressures are adjusted (without a floor pump) between test laps for each rider.
    b. There isn't time to do more than 1-2 additional runs in total on the day of the testing session.
    c. Pre-riding the tires generally isn't possible as riders are coming from different parts of the area to join the test session.
    d. I would like the total test session to last no more than 3.5 hours.

    I believe that most variables in my test methodology are far better controlled than in most other bike magazine or website tests that I've seen which typically involve giving a tire to a writer and having them come back and write their impressions without controlling for bike differences, rim differences, differences in rider condition on a given day, trail conditions, and whether tire pressure was set correctly. Also, feedback from one rider is typically not correlated with feedback from other riders.
    Last edited by Spectre; 05-23-2016 at 01:21 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawgman25 View Post
    You raise a very good point Lynx. I ride GR a lot and the difference between losing traction on some corners and gripping them well can be a few PSI. I like to ride 20 psi front and 22 psi back on wide Derby rims. If I get up to 24-26 PSI, I am sliding in corners and losing traction. My tires are bouncing in the corners with too much PSI.

    To add to this, was the suspension set up correctly for these riders? That could be a huge difference in results as well. I can't tell if they were all on the same bike or all using different bikes set up properly.
    Yes, each rider rode the same bike set up properly for them. Getting the suspension set up properly is something I take the time to do so the characteristics of the bike become more of a neutral factor.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFreak View Post
    Great review. I was wondering though the tests on Grand Ridge are generally consist of hard pack trails. Next year, possibly even another tire test later this year, if the conditions the tires are tested on are more varied conditions, such as loose over hard pack.
    We do try to test the higher traction tires in lower traction, wet conditions. We also use the best performing tires from one test as a benchmark for subsequent tests to introduce some level of comparability between tests.
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  15. #15
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    The corners at GR are already pretty loose with all of the dry weather we have had. Lots of marbles in the corners.

  16. #16
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    Spectre, how was the volume of the 2.3 DHF? Sounds like it was smaller than the rear tires. Did that ride oddly? I'm considering ordering some 2.3's but don't want a smaller volume tire in the front than the rear.

  17. #17
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    Based on my measurements, the DH-F was shorter but wider than the DH-R. I didn't feel any strangeness in the ride or handling. No issues with using the DH-F with the DH-R as a rear tire.

    Maxxis Minion DH-F 3C MaxxTerra, EXO, 27.5 x 2.3,
    Claimed Weight: 870 g
    Actual Weight: 870 g
    Tire Height: 52 mm
    Casing Width: 58 mm
    Knob Width: 56 mm

    Maxxis Minion DH-R II 3C MaxxTerra, EXO, 27.5 x 2.3,
    Claimed Weight: 805 g
    Actual Weight: 820 g
    Tire Height: 54 mm
    Casing Width: 56 mm
    Knob Width: 57 mm
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  18. #18
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    I'm curious if any of these tires come in a 26" version?

    I need to replace my very old Panaracer Fire FR 2.4s and would like to find something about the same size, but a little bit lighter and better suited to the local trails around Seattle.

    Anyone have any recommendations for 26" bikes?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesPM View Post
    I'm curious if any of these tires come in a 26" version?

    I need to replace my very old Panaracer Fire FR 2.4s and would like to find something about the same size, but a little bit lighter and better suited to the local trails around Seattle.

    Anyone have any recommendations for 26" bikes?
    Pretty sure all the tires listed there come in 26"

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesPM View Post
    I'm curious if any of these tires come in a 26" version?

    I need to replace my very old Panaracer Fire FR 2.4s and would like to find something about the same size, but a little bit lighter and better suited to the local trails around Seattle.

    Anyone have any recommendations for 26" bikes?
    They all come in 26" sizes in at least the 2.3 or 2.35 width.

    In terms of suggestions, what trails do you ride and what is your riding style. For trail riding generally, I'd recommend a DH-F front with a DH-R rear if you want more grip or a Nobby Nic rear for more rolling speed as detailed in my report.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre View Post
    They all come in 26" sizes in at least the 2.3 or 2.35 width.

    In terms of suggestions, what trails do you ride and what is your riding style. For trail riding generally, I'd recommend a DH-F front with a DH-R rear if you want more grip or a Nobby Nic rear for more rolling speed as detailed in my report.
    In PNW with somewhat loamy trails this is a good plan, in the the summer I'd sub in a Minion SS/Schwalbe rock razer/Spec Slaughter on the rear for faster rolling.

    Spectre any thoughts on the Maxxis tomahawk or Agressor compared to those?

  22. #22
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    I've not yet ridden the Tomahawk or Aggressor so no thoughts yet on those.
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