$$Money$$- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: $$Money$$

  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    3,729

    $$Money$$

    Value of Volunteer Time | Independent Sector

    Have always wondered if there was a solid number associated with the value of volunteer time.

    $21.62

    When you work with permission on behalf of a group like Evergreen, FOCF, FTTRC or WMBC, for a participating land manager, we could use this number to see how much value mt. bikers have to our community.

    True that when volunteering, motivation can be just being social, having fun, empowerment to work on cool trails etc.

    But to see this side of it i hope this lends a tangible value that maybe will help people see why it's so helpful to jump aboard the bandwagon whenever you can, considering factors of us losing access to trails, as well as just being proactive with overall community health within volunteering. In other words working towards insuring the stokage that is mountain biking for future generations.

    Since September i've shared trail lead with a friend at Duthie Hill. We were asked to log hours. Since September 2010 up until July 2011 we logged in 2046 hours towards Deuces Wild. This does not include an Eagle Scout work party that happened one day (those are way too hectic days with tons of kids and parents who are noobs to trail work, way too busy to track time)

    So here are numbers of just the efforts i've been able to participate with since September of last year.

    ---------------------------------------

    Deuces Wild Slalom Course hundreds of people, around a half dozen core-group participants 2046 volunteer hours.

    2046 X 21.62

    $44,234.52 for King County Parks*

    Cooper River Trail work party day, 6 volunteers 6 hours of work.

    36 X 21.62

    $778.32 for the Forest Service Cle Elum Ranger District

    Kettle Fest 15 volunteers for 8 hours of work

    120 X 21.62

    $2594.40 for Forest Service Kettle Falls/Republic Ranger District

    Middle Fork Snoqualmie Work Party, second one held this year 9 volunteers 8 hours.

    72 X 21.62

    $1556.64 for Forest Service North Bend Ranger District

    i would encourage others involved in above board projects they've been involved with, to throw around some numbers of mt. biker volunteer projects they've been a part of.



    * Deuces is just for one project out of the many at Duthie Hill that were constantly being worked on. i would see all the regulars working on other projects out there all the time, busy busy... So you know the overall numbers have to be crazy.
    .~...|\
    ...~.|.\
    ..~..|..\
    .~...|...\
    ~....|....\
    ...~.|.....\
    ....~|____\
    _____||_________
    .\....FAILBOAT..../

  2. #2
    I should be out riding
    Reputation: ACree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,847
    Funny, the gov't values our time at a much lower rate when comping parking passes out. The discovery pass is particularly insulting at 24 hours of trail work for a $30 pass.
    If it's not powered solely by you, it's motorized.

    Worshiping at the Church of Singletrack since 1993.

  3. #3
    Machine Trail Builder
    Reputation: Fletcher-Love's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    69
    I am having a hard time comprehending that value. How many feet was the trail you helped build (the Deuces one)? The total value you gave there doesn't seem unreasonable at all, but 20 something bucks per volunteer hour seems way out there. The average forest service employee or volunteer coordinator makes half that, granted that is not including insurance and all the other associated overhead, but still.... I would say only a small handful of volunteers have the necessary skills and training to have their time be quantified with that value..... that small handful probably post or lurk on this board. The rest tend to be beginners that need their hands held....actually limiting productivity of the skilled trail builders.... Regardless... if the end value is the same, then I guess it probably doesn't matter how you got there.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    3,729
    Quote Originally Posted by ACree View Post
    Funny, the gov't values our time at a much lower rate when comping parking passes out. The discovery pass is particularly insulting at 24 hours of trail work for a $30 pass.
    Agreed, it should be the same as the Forest Service Pass.

    But to me it's still better than simply no option of a free pass despite volunteering. That's to say they hold no value for volunteer work, but we'll take your money thanks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fletcher-Love View Post
    I am having a hard time comprehending that value. How many feet was the trail you helped build (the Deuces one)?
    Ok...
    The trail will be 1700 feet when completed. What you see currently is around 1100 feet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fletcher-Love View Post
    The total value you gave there doesn't seem unreasonable at all, but 20 something bucks per volunteer hour seems way out there. The average forest service employee or volunteer coordinator makes half that, granted that is not including insurance and all the other associated overhead, but still....
    When i pulled that number from the website of 21 bucks i was assuming all of the associated overhead, which includes state and federal tax, any benefits, insurance 401k or retirement etc. This is all employer cost, not necessarily what an individual would see on their check.
    So let's say 17 dollars an hour, would that seem to fit better, for an average pay scale?


    Quote Originally Posted by Fletcher-Love View Post
    I would say only a small handful of volunteers have the necessary skills and training to have their time be quantified with that value..... that small handful probably post or lurk on this board.
    Yah well you have to consider that over half of the volunteer time is spent by said handful.

    Let's examine the people that would not be quantified to earn that value. Minimum wage in Washington State 8.67/hr. It still cost the employer more than that to carry the employee. What maybe 10 bucks or more?
    Anyways let's go higher simply because Walmart respect their workers more than assuming that kind of pay.

    Also then you have Evergreen coordinating these efforts, with all the overhead etc, just for this case let's throw in the overhead for their part in getting people to show. Sort of like a Labor Ready, the employer has to pay for their cut...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletcher-Love View Post
    The rest tend to be beginners that need their hands held....actually limiting productivity of the skilled trail builders.... Regardless... if the end value is the same, then I guess it probably doesn't matter how you got there.
    Yah i mean this is pretty much a ballpark figure. i would say that people who get paid to do trail work and organize these efforts are sorely underpaid. But hell who am i to talk, i've never gotten a single penny for any work i've helped organize or lead. 0.00/hr is my rate haha.
    But this is all just smoke, fun to talk about but yah... The intangible value of promoting stewardship, and volunteerism which in turn promotes a healthy community. The goodwill of what that leads to is really hard to quantify a value to.
    In my eyes 21 bucks is chump change, and i see it as an undervalue with the points i raise. But still i'm taking the numbers off of a website that is talking about volunteer hours in a broad general sense.
    .~...|\
    ...~.|.\
    ..~..|..\
    .~...|...\
    ~....|....\
    ...~.|.....\
    ....~|____\
    _____||_________
    .\....FAILBOAT..../

  5. #5
    Machine Trail Builder
    Reputation: Fletcher-Love's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    69
    I think putting a value on what volunteers are contributing is important for all the reasons you mentioned, Monetary values mean a whole lot more to certain people than a cleared pathway in the woods. Just for a point of reference however, a Forest Service trail crew leader with 15 years experience is roughly making 18 bucks an hour.... grossly underpaid I agree, but to say a volunteers hour with no experience is worth more than that???? Maybe a better system would be per lineal foot of trail. This is where the discussion could get interesting. Depending on the terrain, a mt bike trail with features is a lot more complex to build than your average hiking trail. Maybe there should be a sliding scale depending on the size of, and the feature. Different monetary values allotted for berms, jumps, skinnies. rollers, bridges.... as well as just a basic number per lineal foot. I don't know..... What do you all think?

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rdhfreethought's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,547
    I think we need a 2-3 days of rain, and a massive 100 person work party at Duthie to fix everything for the rest of the summer Can you take care of that for me, please, k thanks!

    Seriously, good numbers like these are needed for sure. However, as long as they are not having trouble filling Forestry Service jobs, there must be some value in it.

    As an example, my brother in law has a Chemistry degree. He works for the DEQ (Dept of Environmental Quality State of Oregon: Department of Environmental Quality ). He takes a big pay cut, compared to working at Monsanto, or somewhere. But he gets to hike around the most beautiful country, and do something that he believes strongly in like making sure water is clean, the forest is healthy, salmon can spawn etc. Sounds like a great job to me, even with the pay cut vs working at a chemical plant.

    Hence, I am sure many of these Forestry type jobs are very underpaid. But the reason is that there is inherent value in going to work at one of those jobs. Contrast a garbage collector, or grave digger (which are a couple of my friends means of employment). Big money for the skills needed for the job, but...not as pleasant as a forestry worker or trail digger
    Regional Race Manager, Knolly Bikes
    Washington, Oregon, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    3,729
    Quote Originally Posted by Fletcher-Love View Post
    but to say a volunteers hour with no experience is worth more than that????
    Well, yah, but again, the different land managers don't have to pay for a truck to drive them around, don't have to pay for an office. etc etc...

    Also after an allotment of money they usually pay a sub-contractor to build trail, and/or clear trail etc. Plus the current workload is massive, and recreation in many ways is underfunded. So that by itself raised the value of needed help.

    Being in construction myself, the pay scale usually doesn't reflect the difficulty or skill level it takes to complete the job. Mostly it's based on other factors. But regardless of all of that, every task is needed to get a job complete, from the guy running the crane to the gal running the wires, to the shlup holding the broom. They are all needed to get those huge buildings erected.

    So a broad value is more appropriate. And within the ranks of our mt. bike community (either by luck and circumstance), a host of surprisingly qualified members, who if are not currently craftsmen are hurriedly working their way towards a higher skill level.

    Trail maintenance/building is not rocket science. Of the work parties i listed there have been menial tasks of brushing, but certainly we have the capacity to take on higher level tasks. Using teamwork, camraderie, resourcefulness, improvisation, and yes experience and knowledge to engineer fixes on problem areas.

    At Kettle Fest we split into 2 work parties and completed two turnpikes, bringing in only tools, bodies, and some mat. The camera isn't in great position to show the technical detail of how we were dealing with building over an existing failed saturated turnpike and a culvert. The water was weeping from the high side of the trail for about 12 feet.
    We built a turnpike which was separated from the high side of the trail. Building it over rocky slop. By pushing the trail down a bit we were able to find suitable base to properly anchor and seat rock for retention. Then we armored up the approach, the culvert, and a new basin near the culvert where the excess water from the weep will slightly pond and drain.
    A few different eyes spied the task beforehand, evaluated there was enough natural material near the work site to get the job done. Then a collaborative effort was ongoing where everybody chipped in. A true community effort where during the task, individual value is not anywhere as important as teamwork.

    <iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/NLW_gNvLc4U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Again volunteers, not getting paid, but through that how can we define our value. Many land managers totally get it, but i think it should prove to be a validation for those who volunteer. It's probably not necessary to most who volunteer or do a job where money is not the driving motivation. But it's something tangible to lend that people who have difficulty grasping the virtues, can see, to help see it in a light that may make it worthwhile.
    Because to me these types of volunteer efforts are key in establishing relationships and networks that will benefit our community not just exclusive to mt. biking, (yes more trails and opportunity etc,) but also open up doors to possibilities, that of which we haven't really even considered.
    .~...|\
    ...~.|.\
    ..~..|..\
    .~...|...\
    ~....|....\
    ...~.|.....\
    ....~|____\
    _____||_________
    .\....FAILBOAT..../

Similar Threads

  1. Fat and money
    By slenzi in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-04-2010, 01:40 PM
  2. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 09-21-2007, 09:56 AM
  3. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 12-06-2005, 02:51 PM

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.