Morons on motorcycles at Patapsco, MD!- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Upset Morons on motorcycles at Patapsco, MD!

    Heads up for those that ride at Patapsco. The GF and I we hiking there today when I heard the sound of motors comming up the trail. WTF???? This is no-motor trail system. A few minutes later, sure enough came a couple teens age kids on mini dirt bikes on a new section of trail that was just put in to reroute around an eroded section. They saw us and nodded. I informed them they were there ilegally and they just shrugged *sp* it off. I did call the rangers office and report it and I know they won't be able to do much about it his time, but I wanted to inform you all that ride there about this so if you see them to report it. We don't need idiots like this tearing up the trails. The trail section I saw them on was between Hilltop RD parking lot and the campground

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    For the most part, I'm viewing the motorized usage as a losing battle.

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    As long as they don't run you over who cares? Do you know of any legal moto areas in the metro area? I bet they feel much like I do being a DC mountain biker. Lots of beautiful trail right by my house that I'm not allowed to touch. When I poach, I'm always respectful and yield to hikers, but if you want to go the whiny "but its illeeeegal" route or give me sass about riding you're going to get ignored just like you were by those kids.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatetokil
    As long as they don't run you over who cares?
    Everyone who volunteered to do all the trail maintaince out there for starters.


    Quote Originally Posted by skatetokil
    Do you know of any legal moto areas in the metro area? .
    There's one here in S. MD. About an hours drive from DC.

    Quote Originally Posted by skatetokil
    I bet they feel much like I do being a DC mountain biker. Lots of beautiful trail right by my house that I'm not allowed to touch.
    And LOTS for trails not far off that you CAN ride....legally!

    Quote Originally Posted by skatetokil
    When I poach, I'm always respectful and yield to hikers.


    Quote Originally Posted by skatetokil
    but if you want to go the whiny "but its illeeeegal" route or give me sass about riding you're going to get ignored just like you were by those kids.
    Typical moronic "DC" additude! Can't see the forest for the trees.

  5. #5
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    I can see the forest just fine every time I ride through it.

    I live in a place that doesn't permit biking. Yeah, I could hop in a car after work, burn some of my expensive gas for an hour of sitting in gridlock on 270 and ride shaffer. . .or I could ride my own damn trails.

    If you want to tell these kids whats what and make sure they do their share of trail work thats great, but there is no excuse for calling the cops on somebody. Ever. I have no patience for whiners. Does that attitude offend you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatetokil
    I can see the forest just fine every time I ride through it.
    You sure 'bout that? Sounds like you can't afford the "expensive" gas to make it out of DC


    Quote Originally Posted by skatetokil
    I live in a place that doesn't permit biking. Yeah, I could hop in a car after work, burn some of my expensive gas for an hour of sitting in gridlock on 270 and ride shaffer. . .or I could ride my own damn trails.
    Whatever ya say black pot


    Quote Originally Posted by skatetokil
    If you want to tell these kids whats what and make sure they do their share of trail work thats great, but there is no excuse for calling the cops on somebody. Ever. I have no patience for whiners. Does that attitude offend you?
    OK, for one thing I didn't call the MDSP or the county sherriff, I informed the trail managers out there. Yes, I know they enforce the rules out there. On top of that, these kids are going out there spinning tires on the ground trying to make it up the hill. I somehow REALLY doubt they are going to be out there the next trail day trying to repair that damage. Three, yes this kinda additude does offend me. It's why I see trash all over the place, drivers trying to run each other off the road, crotchrockets flying along @ 130mph and causing accidents. You seem to be a PERFECT example of this. The Fvck-everyone-else-I'm-the-only-thing-that-matters-in-the-universe mentality. So I propose this. When I see you crash and really fvck yourself up on a trail that you're poaching I WON'T call the cops or ANYONE while I just jog by and wave at ya!
    Last edited by crashedandburned; 08-02-2007 at 05:51 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatetokil
    I live in a place that doesn't permit biking. Yeah, I could hop in a car after work, burn some of my expensive gas for an hour of sitting in gridlock on 270 and ride shaffer. . .or I could ride my own damn trails.
    So using your logic, it's perfectly fine to steal from corner convenience store rather than driving the gridlock to a shopping center.

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    I can't believe this topic is dragging out like this. The activity is ILLEGAL; it's as simple as that. Stop your whining about high cost gas and do the right thing. Oh let me guess, you probably fill up at a gas station, don't pay, and just drive off. See how ridiculous your logic is? If everybody followed your logic, there would be anarchy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatetokil
    I can see the forest just fine every time I ride through it.

    I live in a place that doesn't permit biking. Yeah, I could hop in a car after work, burn some of my expensive gas for an hour of sitting in gridlock on 270 and ride shaffer. . .or I could ride my own damn trails.

    If you want to tell these kids whats what and make sure they do their share of trail work thats great, but there is no excuse for calling the cops on somebody. Ever. I have no patience for whiners. Does that attitude offend you?

    is your whole post a joke?
    do you really think that gas in the US is expensive?, do some travelling.

    and if you go to WA state I'll give you the names of a few trails where you can see the damage caused by motorcicles. I'm not saying that it should be illegal for you to ride a moto, but there should be places for bikes, and places for motorcicles, and you won't find any sympathy from many bikers if you poach.

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    gas price

    Good point about the gas cost in the U.S. It's amazing how cheap our gas is compared to other countries. In Europe and Asia, 1 gallon of gas will cost you from $10-$25 USD.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashedandburned
    The GF and I we hiking there today when I heard the sound of motors comming up the trail. WTF????
    Is this the first time you saw them?
    Use to ride Patapsco back in the 80s with BMX bikes, which was ILLEGAL...HA! Or the Rangers like to harass us and kick us out.


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    Quote Originally Posted by pisco
    is your whole post a joke?
    do you really think that gas in the US is expensive?, do some travelling.

    and you won't find any sympathy from many bikers if you poach.
    Bet you will see more bicycles and Motorcycles...
    I had a commuter beat me on Old Georgetown, now that was bad ass!

    I think all trail should be open to bicycles!

  13. #13
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    Damn, C&B, you really brought out the mtbr intelligentsia with this one. The admitted poacher being challenged I can understand, but some of these responses seem to be from folks who just had their dosages changed. Keep up the good work.

    PS- I think you should have popped a few rounds into the tires. That would pretty much put a stop to that BS.
    "Sufficient to have stood, yet free to fall."
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    Quote Originally Posted by davis
    Damn, C&B, you really brought out the mtbr intelligentsia with this one. The admitted poacher being challenged I can understand, but some of these responses seem to be from folks who just had their dosages changed. Keep up the good work.
    Thanks! I do seem to have that talent don't I.


    Quote Originally Posted by davis
    PS- I think you should have popped a few rounds into the tires. That would pretty much put a stop to that BS.
    Tempting.... Ya know, it's funny. When I had my permit back home in West Virginia, I never carried. Never felt the need. Out here in the enlightened area of DC, N.Va, MD. I can't get a permit to save my soul. For the record, I've rode by two shooting crime scenes within 4 miles of my house on my bike, Wendy's car was almost broken into w/ us just inside the doorway Christmas Eve and I was almost assaulted on my way home from work one night on my bike! But I can't be trusted to carry!?!?!? Oh, that's right...the police will protect me
    Last edited by crashedandburned; 08-06-2007 at 04:39 AM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadWeight
    Is this the first time you saw them?
    Yup! First time. My main grip is that alot of people put in alot of hrs out there building/maintaining those HEAVLY used trails just to see some idiots come by on motorcycles to tear them up. I've seen a LOT of trail erosion just in the short few (5) yrs I've spent here. We don't need self important morons futher complicating things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crashedandburned
    Yup! First time. My main grip is that alot of people put in alot of hrs out there building/maintaining those HEAVLY used trails just to see some idiots come by on motorcycles to tear them up. I've seen a LOT of trail erosion just in the short few (5) yrs I've spent here. We don't need self important morons futher complicating things.
    Totally understand I know the MORE group did a lot of work there. Iíve only hiked there lately and the bicycle traffic was a little muchÖI feel the same about horses around where I live they ride the trails until they are just mush. I try to build up the area with rocks and stones each year so I can just get through the trail. Anyway, keep up the great work with Patapsco itís a never ending battle!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by davis
    Damn, C&B, you really brought out the mtbr intelligentsia with this one. The admitted poacher being challenged I can understand, but some of these responses seem to be from folks who just had their dosages changed. Keep up the good work.

    PS- I think you should have popped a few rounds into the tires. That would pretty much put a stop to that BS.


    HA!

  18. #18
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    Just for the record, I do not condone the use of handguns against illegal trail users. (Happy now, Mr. Attorney-friend?)

    Firing a handgun in the direction of a moron will never solve anything, regardless of how funny it may seem at the time. Besides, this Patapsco place seems like it may have quite a bit of use, so getting rid of the, uhm, waste product, would probably be a bit dicey.

    I wonder if I can I bank the time spent on this thread as "community service"?
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by davis
    Just for the record, I do not condone the use of handguns against illegal trail users. (Happy now, Mr. Attorney-friend?)

    Firing a handgun in the direction of a moron will never solve anything, regardless of how funny it may seem at the time. Besides, this Patapsco place seems like it may have quite a bit of use, so getting rid of the, uhm, waste product, would probably be a bit dicey.

    I wonder if I can I bank the time spent on this thread as "community service"?

    Oookkkaaayyy....What brought that on? Get a nasty PM or two? Hope not. I know you were just joking around there. Anyone who knows ya knew that. Well, 'Cept maybe those kids from Canada.

    Patapsco IS heavly used. It sits between Baltimore and DC so it gets all the Mums, Dads w/ 2.5's; horses; hikers; bikers; lovers *so Wendy and I saw last weeekend out there * parties, cookouts, etc and thus gets pretty crowded on the summer weekends. I was telling one guy at the LBS that I love going out there on my Friday off because there's almost no one on the trails there.

  20. #20
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    Patapsco gets enough wear and tear from hikers, horses, and us. Now all we need are dirt bikes....

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    what is "enough" wear.

    You know you all sound like a bunch of hikers talking about the evil mountain bikers, right? You may not like what i believe but at least I'm not an "access just for the kind of riding i like" hypocrite. Don't try to hide behind the law when the law is stupid. Public trails should be, you know, public. If all the user groups get involved with building and maintaining good sustainable trail systems there will be less conflict and more dirt for me to ride. I welcome dirt bikers as long as they practice good etiquette and lend a hand when it comes time to smooth the trails out in the spring.

  22. #22
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    A dirt bike makes 25-50 HP. One dirt bike can do more damage than a hundred MTBs.
    You get a group of dirt bikers on the trail and they could ruin it on one weekend, especially if the trail is wet.
    I'm not anti-motorbikes, been riding motorcycles much longer than MTB, but they can't play on MTB trails.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatetokil
    what is "enough" wear.

    You know you all sound like a bunch of hikers talking about the evil mountain bikers, right? You may not like what i believe but at least I'm not an "access just for the kind of riding i like" hypocrite. Don't try to hide behind the law when the law is stupid. Public trails should be, you know, public. If all the user groups get involved with building and maintaining good sustainable trail systems there will be less conflict and more dirt for me to ride. I welcome dirt bikers as long as they practice good etiquette and lend a hand when it comes time to smooth the trails out in the spring.

    You know, you sound like a whinny 10 yr old complaining about how ďitís not fairĒ that he canít go across the street and play at the construction site when thereís a playground he can go to just a couple blocks away.

    Please point out ONE post here where people want to close off all access to motocross? In Patapsco? Yes. It should be off limits to motorized vehicles. The trails are not designed or built for that. By the same token, Sugarloaf Mt. is off limits to mt. bikers. Know what? I donít see or have ever heard of anyone having a problem w/ that. Thereís also places for horses that cyclists donít go. I have no problem w/ that either. The motocross park here in S. MD.? I donít know if itís actually off limits to cyclists, but if it is, again I have no problem w/ that.

    Your main gripe seem to be that you have trails outside you door that illegal to ride. Not off limit to you since you can hike Ďem like everyone else, but is off limits to your bike. You want to ride them? Personally I donít care. I agree that youíre not likely to do much damage, BUT donít expect any sympathy from me if you ever get busted w/ a fine or someone strings a clothesline across a blind turn because youíre on ďtheirĒ trails. Hikers have few places they can go w/o having to worry about us ďmountain bikersĒ scaring the crap out of them so I donít begrudge them a few off limits places. If thatís what it takes to shut them up and keep the majority of places open to us, then one or to off limits parks is a small price.

    You say you donít want to burn your expensive gas to drive to the trails. So now youíre better than us? Is gas more expensive for just you and the rest of us are still paying í99 prices? Does you car get 5mpg? Iím getting ready to drive to West Virginia this weekend and figure itís gonna cost me about $126 just in gas. I COULD just follow your logic and piss a bunch of people off at Surgarloaf but Iím an adult and realize that this is just the price one pays to enjoy what he loves to do. Same thing for motocrossers. Nothing against them but they have a time and place also. Southern West Virginia opened up a few hundred miles of ATV trails a few yrs back. My friend here at the office went for a week and loved it. Cost him a small fortune, but thatís the price he pays and he knows it. So thereís options for them but like any endeavor, they have to be willing to pay to play.

    As far as that law, I happen to agree w/ you in that some are stupid as fvck. The whole ďwar on drugsĒ is a great example. We tried that already and lost back in the 20ís. It was called the Prohibition. Other laws are there for a reason though. Speed limits, murder, incest, etc. Yes, Iíll admit I have a lead foot when I drive. Iím not reckless in that I weave in out of traffic, tailgate, etc. Mostly w/ the flow or a little above. BUT if I get busted, and I have been busted, thatís simple the price I pay and I donít expect any sympathy for it.

    I wonít bother reposting some good reasons as to why motorcycles are banned in Patapsco. You can reread the above posts for that.

  24. #24
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    I wonder how this guy would react if he saw a couple guys with rifles walking along the trail.

    "Just hunting some deer. We'll be careful."

    You better believe I'll call the police. And you can tell me thats a different situation but why? Because the hunters are putting people in danger? More danger? I don't presume to be able to draw those kinds of lines.

    I don't care how "careful" someone says they are and, frankly, I don't care if these kids do help clean up the trails. It's the law and laws exist for a reason.

    He may not agree with his not being allowed to carry a weapon, but he still doesn't. See, you don't care about poaching because the penalty is minor, not becasue the law is stupid.

    And you can say the "War on Drugs" is a lost cause...and maybe it is. But at least admit that eliminating the law carries a whole other set of problems that will have to be dealt with.

    So yeah, maybe these kids won't hurt anybody and will do minimal damage for years to come. But all it will take is one rider pinned under a hot motorcycle engine for you to want these kids strapped to an electric chair.
    Last edited by MisterC; 09-02-2007 at 03:31 PM.

  25. #25
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    as a dirt biker, i'd give them the *wrist twist while leaning backwards* motion to see some wheelies. i do, however, tread lightly. even on legal trails. the only time i don't is on private land used for closed course racing.

    yes, i violate laws that are stupid. you do, too. yes, they have minimum penalties. ...because they are stupid.

    eliminating the war on drugs? by problems do you mean the ability for the gov't to regulate and tax currently illegal drugs?

  26. #26
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    Believe it or not, drugs being illegal keeps a lot of people from using them.

    "So don't make it cheap."

    You have to. Or the people who sell them now will keep selling them...for cheap.

    The "it's no big deal" argument makes me want to go live in the mountains. I just can't stand someone sitting there telling me how things should work. I'm sure you have brilliant ideas for improving the current tax code. And getting healthcare to every American would be no problem for you.

    Despite the fact that I may speed form time to time I have no right to complain when I get a ticket. I also don't think that just becasue I can control my car at a speed higher than the one posted that speed limit laws are stupid and should be thrown out. So yeah, these dirt bikers are making a judgement call about their ability to control their bikes and not damage the trails. If they get away with it, so be it. But if they get burned at the stake you won't see me holding any placards. Go talk to the mother of some poor kid killed by a drunk driver about making those kinds of judgement calls.

    I don't know how to explain to someone that laws are important to society. If you can't understand that then go start your own country. I'm sure it will be a wild success.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterC

    I don't know how to explain to someone that laws are important to society. If you can't understand that then go start your own country. I'm sure it will be a wild success.
    Law is important to society, very few individual laws are. If you knew how they were made, you'd agree.

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    Gotta admit, I'm shocked. But surprised? Not really. I mean we are talking about politicians after all.

    I'm just really surprised in this day and age that they still use an antiquated system like that. In the DOD we use what we call CAC cards. Has a small chip in it *like the removable smart chips in cell phones* w/ a PIN # that we program into it and have to use to access computer systems or get on the base. Seems like simple upgrade if you ask me.

  29. #29
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    Glad to see this thread is still alive and well.

  30. #30
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    That's pretty funny but it misses the point.

    My brother is extremely involved in his local politics. The largest brick maker in the world tried to open an open pit mine in the middle of Barboursville, VA and he led the offort to overturn the permit and keep the mine out of Barboursville. If you do a quick search I'm sure there is still some information out there.

    Anyways, he would always tell me,

    "The President, Senate, Congress, these are not the people you should be worried about. They don't have nearly the effect on your life that your local councilmen, mayor, and other state and county officials will have. If you want to get involed in poilitics do it locally. You'd be amazed what is going on behind those doors."

    He is wise.

    http://www.b-ville.net/

    It's long since over but it was a hell of a thing at the time.

  31. #31
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    Take it to the politics forum.

    If you want to get back to talking about Patapsco, there's a big trail work day out there on October 20th.
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    Quote Originally Posted by riderx
    Take it to the politics forum.

    If you want to get back to talking about Patapsco, there's a big trail work day out there on October 20th.
    The kids should be disciplined and they obviously have no respect for the law. Yep, Patapsco, remember it well. Do they still have the Mother's Day Mauler race?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surlyman1
    Yep, Patapsco, remember it well. Do they still have the Mother's Day Mauler race?
    Nope, that promoter folded his operation.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by davis
    Firing a handgun in the direction of a moron will never solve anything...

    Oh, I think you'd be amazed at how much it can solve. In fact, there's little it can't solve.

    How can I get involved in trail maintenance at Patapso? I used to live on the other side of town, and did trail work over there. I've recently begun riding Patapsco, and would like to get involved in trail maintenance there.

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    Now you're talking!

    Quote Originally Posted by riderx
    Take it to the politics forum.

    If you want to get back to talking about Patapsco, there's a big trail work day out there on October 20th.
    Thats exactly what this thread needed.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by benlineberry
    How can I get involved in trail maintenance at Patapso? I used to live on the other side of town, and did trail work over there. I've recently begun riding Patapsco, and would like to get involved in trail maintenance there.
    Check the link above for dates, times and where to meet. Show up and talk to a few of us who run the work days, we'll put you to good use
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatetokil
    what is "enough" wear.

    You know you all sound like a bunch of hikers talking about the evil mountain bikers, right? You may not like what i believe but at least I'm not an "access just for the kind of riding i like" hypocrite. Don't try to hide behind the law when the law is stupid. Public trails should be, you know, public. If all the user groups get involved with building and maintaining good sustainable trail systems there will be less conflict and more dirt for me to ride. I welcome dirt bikers as long as they practice good etiquette and lend a hand when it comes time to smooth the trails out in the spring.
    Something tells me you are one of the morons in question. Or are you some other moron?
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashedandburned
    Gotta admit, I'm shocked. But surprised? Not really. I mean we are talking about politicians after all.

    I'm just really surprised in this day and age that they still use an antiquated system like that. In the DOD we use what we call CAC cards. Has a small chip in it *like the removable smart chips in cell phones* w/ a PIN # that we program into it and have to use to access computer systems or get on the base. Seems like simple upgrade if you ask me.
    My father uses the same thing. He tells me they are thinking about applying the technology on a national level. Where every person wouyld be assigned a card that would be tied to there social and you would need it for certain transactions. I should get the details from him before I really talk about it but it is an interesting idea. 1984 here we come.

    Big Brother is watching you.

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