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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatmikeynyc
    Anyone have any thoughts/advice??

    Ya. Just build and ride it.
    -eric-

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  2. #202
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    The Phoenix Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpfy
    Ya. Just build and ride it.
    Let me Re-Phrase that; "Anyone except Rumpfy who rides bikes with holes in them..."
    FATMIKEYNYC

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatmikeynyc
    Is this the type of "under rusting" that you saw on your frame?
    Here is my Phoenix and this "spidery rust" under the paint as well as a bunch of chips where you see bare steel on mine is leaning me towards a repaint:
    It is a bit tough to see on pics, but with mine it looked like those little worms. They were on front ST and on top TT.

    PM'ed you.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatmikeynyc
    Is this the type of "under rusting" that you saw on your frame?
    Here is my Phoenix and this "spidery rust" under the paint as well as a bunch of chips where you see bare steel on mine is leaning me towards a repaint:
    When I first got my Phoenix it looked like it had rust under the paint in pretty much that same spot. I sanded it down, and it wasn't rust, but it was so long ago that I don't remember what it was. I found some paint that was close enough to hide the little spot I sanded.
    Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatmikeynyc
    Let me Re-Phrase that; "Anyone except Rumpfy who rides bikes with holes in them..."

    Major rust, sure...take it down and re-do it (unless you're me, then you leave it anyway. ).
    I just wasn't seeing any in the picture you posted, rust worm or otherwise.


    I just know you're going to take that bike and put the tall stem, flat pedals, and goofy seat on it and have it be immaculate and its going to sit.
    -eric-

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  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by patineto
    Last week Lauren rode the Ti-Phoenix for the "Turkeyride" at Fairfax.


    When... I WalK my Ibis SS pretty much the whole way up since my old Sachs "new success" rear derailleur Hand made spring lost temper half way on the trip (i'm sure I did something wrong when I heat/cool it down) and the chainsuck was just to persistent to let me ride it. so for now on is back to the trusty M900 parts that never ever fail.

    We also found a sister along the way.


    I think Lauren is going to keep the Phoenix as one of her bike for now one, at least with the "funky" handlebars it fit her far better (Even if the effective top tube is almost 23" long) plus I guess i'm much to chubby and the frame flexes (B.B and rear end) far to much for my taste (much more than the Ibis and the Yo-Eddy's for sure)
    What is the the deal with the taper chainstays on the top Ti phoenix? I've not seen those on a Ti.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by bushpig
    What is the the deal with the taper chainstays on the top Ti phoenix? I've not seen those on a Ti.
    i like that wtb stem
    .
    WTB: Bomber Z2 1 1/8 steerer, in good to excellent shape OR bomber rebuild kit.

  8. #208
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  9. #209
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    The Phoenix Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpfy
    Major rust, sure...take it down and re-do it (unless you're me, then you leave it anyway. ).
    I just wasn't seeing any in the picture you posted, rust worm or otherwise.


    I just know you're going to take that bike and put the tall stem, flat pedals, and goofy seat on it and have it be immaculate and its going to sit.
    OK, maybe I'm overeacting but I read one of those old articles where Steve Potts apparently didn't allow for any moisture to escape from the tubes if it got in there because he felt that frame owners should be taught proper frame care to avoid that from happening...Plus I got a little freaked when I saw the red Phoenix that looked mint to me and supposedly had rust and even though it's hard to see in the photo there's defintely something doing under the paint, maybe it's nothing worth worrying about... I could use new "Phoenix" decals for the top tube though, but I don't think that's on the Rumpfy priority list either

    BTW-Since you already raised the issue I actually do have THE MOST REPULSIVE stem picked out for my Phoenix I bought it with you in mind! But sadly no seat yet, WTB has had some real ugly ones lately so I have a lot to choose from, White, Silver, Camo...Now that I already have kids I may not need to use those testicle saver seats that I had on some of my rides, so I'll probably get something flashy just to get your goat

    I actually do plan on riding this Phoenix, I need to get back in shape after not riding for too long plus that way the rest of my bikes can remain as "Living Room Queens" and after all of the hype I really do want to see what the magic is all about with the Phoenix
    FATMIKEYNYC

  10. #210
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    who got it?
    looking for 20-21" P team

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatmikeynyc
    Steve Potts apparently didn't allow for any moisture to escape from the tubes
    I agree, I could've only helped to leave at least a weep hole to get any moisture out. I spent some time trying to decide a way to safely drill up into the seat tube from the bottom bracket. In the end it seemed like a stupid idea to take a chance on ruining the thing to prevent something that might not happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatmikeynyc
    even though it's hard to see in the photo there's defintely something doing under the paint, maybe it's nothing worth worrying about...
    As posted above
    When I first got my Phoenix it looked like it had rust under the paint in pretty much that same spot. I sanded it down, and it wasn't rust, but it was so long ago that I don't remember what it was. I found some paint that was close enough to hide the little spot I sanded.
    But you gotta get brave and break out the sandpaper. I'll admit it was a lot easier to do 10 years ago than it would be today though.

    Even though I don't remember specifics, I'm pretty sure what I found was IN the paint, not under it, so once the paint was off the tube was clean. Sometimes a guy's gotta do what paranoia wants him to do though. A strip and repaint won't hurt anything but your wallet.
    Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpfy
    You talkin' about the recent CL one?
    yessir
    looking for 20-21" P team

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollister
    who got it?

    You talkin' about the recent CL one?
    -eric-

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  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by wv_bob
    I spent some time trying to decide a way to safely drill up into the seat tube from the bottom bracket.
    Through the threaded hole used to attached the plastic bottom bracket cable guide?

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleCentury
    Through the threaded hole used to attached the plastic bottom bracket cable guide?
    Yeah exactly ... there is no plastic guide, so I'd have to go up through both sides of the BB shell and hit the middle of the seat tube, or find a long punch to mark where to drill coming down from the top and use a long drill extension to get the bit down there. The more I thought about it the less sense it made to do it
    Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised

  16. #216
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    The Phoenix Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wv_bob
    When I first got my Phoenix it looked like it had rust under the paint in pretty much that same spot. I sanded it down, and it wasn't rust, but it was so long ago that I don't remember what it was. I found some paint that was close enough to hide the little spot I sanded.
    I'm not going to mess with it myself, I'm not that crafty!

    I'll keep everyone posted on this whether I just build it up or decide to paint it...chances are I will just go for a build right now...
    FATMIKEYNYC

  17. #217
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    DoubleCentury!

    I have tried to comment on your: Classic Ti Phoenix SN 98062 twice since you posted it this morning and for some reason it won't register!!

    It's Awesome! Even though it doesn't seem "Vintage" it's a 10 year old bike that isn't made any longer, but it's a killer build, did you put this together or did you get it complete?
    FATMIKEYNYC

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatmikeynyc
    DoubleCentury!

    I have tried to comment on your: Classic Ti Phoenix SN 98062 twice since you posted it this morning and for some reason it won't register!!

    It's Awesome! Even though it doesn't seem "Vintage" it's a 10 year old bike that isn't made any longer, but it's a killer build, did you put this together or did you get it complete?

    I heard that there were some posting issues with putting text in the title field. Were you doing that?

  19. #219
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    Lol!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fillet-brazed
    I heard that there were some posting issues with putting text in the title field. Were you doing that?

    LOL! Only if you retype it in for every post you make.
    -eric-

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  20. #220
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    LOL! Only if you retype it in for every post you make

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpfy
    LOL! Only if you retype it in for every post you make.
    Hey What do you mean Rumpfy?

    So who here got the SF area Phoenix? The seller didn't even answer my desperate plea...
    FATMIKEYNYC

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatmikeynyc
    The seller didn't even answer my desperate plea...
    you're the fourth person I've heard that from
    looking for 20-21" P team

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatmikeynyc
    DoubleCentury!
    It's Awesome! Even though it doesn't seem "Vintage" it's a 10 year old bike that isn't made any longer, but it's a killer build, did you put this together or did you get it complete?
    Acquired as a complete bike, that needed a service overhaul and a few modifications. This is a no-nonsense build that will service as my primary hardtail, replacing a Ritchey NiTi with a similar M952 build. In the future the fork will be replaced with something lighter.

  23. #223
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    Yes DC, great chassis. It is obvious you created a very enjoyable rider.


    Got my Phoenix and Type II from the painter this week. Already have some pics of the Type II =>



    Neatly done. Happy with it.

  24. #224
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    This thread is so much fun. Your type II looks fantastic. I love to see the rest of your paintjob. I like to show my Phoenix riding the Austrian Alps last summer. I bought this frame somewhere in 1994/1995 and I still ride it many miles.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatmikeynyc
    Hey What do you mean Rumpfy?

    So who here got the SF area Phoenix? The seller didn't even answer my desperate plea...
    Haha!


    Didn't answer my emails either. I'm sure whomever called first had the best chance.

    Besides...thats territory encroachment.
    -eric-

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  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pottser
    This thread is so much fun. Your type II looks fantastic. I love to see the rest of your paintjob. I like to show my Phoenix riding the Austrian Alps last summer. I bought this frame somewhere in 1994/1995 and I still ride it many miles.
    Great action shot of the Phoenix.

    Just got back from riding mine in Santa Cruz today as it were.
    -eric-

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    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

  27. #227
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    Quickpic !



    Hope to have it rolling somewhere in ....2000 and 9 !

  28. #228
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    Nice one Melvin!

    I noticed that the ends of the legs on your Type II aren't scallowed/spoon-shaped, but 'flat'... thats somewhat weird. Than again, your Phoenix also has rack mounts and a different cable routing than mine (cause of the chainstay-mounted brake). I thought that was done only on the earlier modell, whereas your's is a later one than mine (different dropouts and decalling).
    No, I am not retro.... I am way ahead of my time...

    "...though a lot of marijuana was smoked in the early days of mountain bike development, not all of the riders were potsmoking hippies... " Frank J. Berto

    Who's that f#$king Doug Lexington?!

  29. #229
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    Hi, it turned out great. Is the colour black on the mainframe?

    Jeroen: this Type II was made by Wes Williams, because at that time Steve didn't have time to build a Type II. One of the few who were allowed allowed to build Type II is/was Wes Williams. The fork was sent back to WTB and painted together with the frame.

    The original owner wanted racks front and rear, because he wanted to use it for touring. That's the reason of course for the braze-ons but also for the different cable route and brake position. I am glad it showed up again. I hope you ride it a lot, that's what Phoenix are famous for.

  30. #230
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    Thank you for the kind words

    Colour of frame and upper section of fork is a very deep gloss black. The decals are in mousegrey, as is the lower section of the Type II.

    Will only use neutral colours in the build ...except for tyre flanges.

    Already from the start of the project I know what I want. I am only undecided on whether to go for XC Pro or XTR m900. Suntour has a link with WTB through Grease Guard, what makes it a good pick, but maybe XTR has a tiny little bit more class. Class to complement the class of the frame.

  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elevation12,000
    Thank you for the kind words

    Colour of frame and upper section of fork is a very deep gloss black. The decals are in mousegrey, as is the lower section of the Type II.

    Will only use neutral colours in the build ...except for tyre flanges.

    Already from the start of the project I know what I want. I am only undecided on whether to go for XC Pro or XTR m900. Suntour has a link with WTB through Grease Guard, what makes it a good pick, but maybe XTR has a tiny little bit more class. Class to complement the class of the frame.
    xtr is better. why build it w/ something worse? "cool factor" ?
    WTB: Bomber Z2 1 1/8 steerer, in good to excellent shape OR bomber rebuild kit.

  32. #232
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    the taper chain stay on the ti one is the sandvik chain stay, from what i've been told.

  33. #233
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    m900 is so played out.

    Go with the XC Pro.

  34. #234
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    Smile Front derailleur and custom paint?

    Trying to find out if the Phoenix takes a 31.8mm FD w/ bottom pull
    and bottom or top swing?
    Also, any recommendations for custom painter for my '96 Phoenix around
    the SF Bay Area?
    Thanks
    Every day above ground is a great day!

  35. #235
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    Hi BradMTB,

    Front derailleur with my True Temper Phoenix (probably the same as your 1996 one) is 34,9mm in diameter. Bottom pull. I personally would go for the conventional design, the down swing.

  36. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradmtb
    Trying to find out if the Phoenix takes a 31.8mm FD w/ bottom pull
    and bottom or top swing?
    Also, any recommendations for custom painter for my '96 Phoenix around
    the SF Bay Area?
    Thanks

    As for paint, D+D Cycles in San Lorenzo did the original paint work on the Phoenix's and might have decals as well.
    -eric-

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    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

  37. #237
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    Risen from the ashes....

    I promised to post some pics of my Ti Phoenix project when it was finally done, but Mike at BlackMountain Cycles has already posted a much better story about the bike than I could ever write:
    http://blackmountaincycles.blogspot....m-phoenix.html

    I owe a huge thanks to Mike Varley for building the bike and figuring out a workaround to the rear brake issue. What other bike shop can get your roller-cam modification approved by Charlie himself?

    Thanks to FatMikeynyc and Bushpig for help with sourcing the front roller-cam.

    It's 70 degrees outside right now... a perfect day to take the Phoenix on it's maiden voyage.

    -fetor

  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by fetor
    I promised to post some pics of my Ti Phoenix project when it was finally done, but Mike at BlackMountain Cycles has already posted a much better story about the bike than I could ever write:
    http://blackmountaincycles.blogspot....m-phoenix.html

    I owe a huge thanks to Mike Varley for building the bike and figuring out a workaround to the rear brake issue. What other bike shop can get your roller-cam modification approved by Charlie himself?

    Thanks to FatMikeynyc and Bushpig for help with sourcing the front roller-cam.

    It's 70 degrees outside right now... a perfect day to take the Phoenix on it's maiden voyage.

    -fetor

    Looks super nice. Someday I'll have to try me a ti one.

  39. #239
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    Here's a pic of my Phoenix at the top of today's climb - the temps were in the mid to upper 20s F. I bought the frame at a swap nearly two years ago, and it included the rear toggle cam brake. The frame had a crack at the seat binder when I bought it, so I sent it to Steve for repairs. It recently came back with the crack repaired, a new fork, and a spiffy new white paint job (previously it was black). The build includes WTB brakes, hubs, and bar - otherwise it's mostly Shimano m900 XTR.

    I'm not crazy about the stem. It puts the bars in the right place, but it does not do it with any style. Hopefully there's a solution to that in the future. In the mean time I'll ride it as is. Today I was out for 2 hours and 45 minutes and climbed about 2400 feet. The bike rode great.

    <img src="https://www.eandsweb.com/bikes/pics/phoenix/IMG_0346.JPG" height="600" width="800">
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux
    I'm not crazy about the stem.
    What the hell man.
    -eric-

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  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpfy
    What the hell man.
    I appreciate the gift. When I find a different stem I'll send this one back to you.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  42. #242
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    sick bike needs a limp digit for sure.

  43. #243
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    The bike looks great E. I really like the picture also. I think this bike needs it's own thread. If you wouldnt have told me you posted, I wouldnt have checked this thread.
    Happy Trails

  44. #244
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    Does anyone have a readable copy of the Phoenix catalog, or know what the effective top tube length is for a 15" frame? I tried the catalog at http://www.mtb-kataloge.de/Bikekatal...F/WTB/1996.pdf but can't read it. Reason for asking: 29er shopping
    Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised

  45. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by wv_bob
    Does anyone have a readable copy of the Phoenix catalog, or know what the effective top tube length is for a 15" frame? I tried the catalog at http://www.mtb-kataloge.de/Bikekatal...F/WTB/1996.pdf but can't read it. Reason for asking: 29er shopping

    22.75

  46. #246
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    Thanks BP
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  47. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pottser
    This thread is so much fun. Your type II looks fantastic. I love to see the rest of your paintjob. I like to show my Phoenix riding the Austrian Alps last summer. I bought this frame somewhere in 1994/1995 and I still ride it many miles.
    Great action shot

    Good thread...I was able to gather some info regarding seatposts/sizing/etc...but there's a lot more I want to read. Anyone have more resources on these bikes...including a readable copy of the phoenix catalogue?

    Thanks

  48. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by bushpig
    What is the the deal with the taper chainstays on the top Ti phoenix? I've not seen those on a Ti.

    Quote Originally Posted by datenschwanz
    the taper chain stay on the ti one is the sandvik chain stay, from what i've been told.
    help please.

    I just picked up a Phoenix Ti, and need some clarification on this issue brought up in this thread, but not really clarified.

    So does the Ti Phoenix come with tapered chain stays or not? Does it come with both tapered and non-tapered? Is there such thing as a non-steve potts built Ti Phoenix or replicas/knock-offs floating around out there?

    any help would be greatly appreciated.

  49. #249
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    Both were made. Most I have seen are not tapered but some are tapered. Potts built the Phoenixes.

  50. #250
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    Hello fellow WTB afficiados,

    Hope to have the Phoenix finished for upcoming OWMTBC event.

    I will be fitting the original New Paradigm headset. I want to have it properly assembled and prefer to install loose balls instead of balls fitted in a ring. What size balls do they take? Okay, I can see with my eye I must be 5/32 or 4mm ...but which of the two?

    The New Paradigm bottom bracket will not make its return. Pottser convinced me it is not the most ingenious product ever designed by the WTB crew, so a Suntour XC Pro MD unit will be installed instead. Same Q! What size ball? 5/32 or 4mm.

    Of course I did a quite extensive search for it by myself (BikePro, old Suntour and WTB NP catalogue), but I simply couldn't find it.

  51. #251
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    Unless something is funky with this stuff it should be Imperial, i.e. 5/32.

  52. #252
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    The suntour bottom bracket from the factory runs 1/4" loose balls (if my memory banks are working today) so you should not need additional bearings in there.

  53. #253
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    Thanks for your contribution both

    Untill recently I were always under the assumption everthing used was imperial size. Untill I encountered some specs on the web that several headsets (dia compe, DA7400) take 4mm balls. No idea whether that is a fact or result of non accurate writing up of stuff by some people, but it surprised me ...and of course the material that we WTB afficiados are working on has to be preserved into eternity, so every job on it has to be performed properly. Hence me questioning.

    ckevlar, I do know the regular and more common XC Pro bb takes 11 1/4'' balls. This is a MD unit however and it is somewhat different, including the size of the balls used.
    Last edited by Elevation12,000; 08-12-2009 at 03:40 AM.

  54. #254
    Retro on Steroids
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    Spotted outside the Iron Springs Brewery. This guy is a rider, not a collector.






  55. #255
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    must be nice to not have to lock up your bike when going around town.
    I'd get suspicious if I saw a guy casing my ride while I'm picking up something to eat

  56. #256
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    I repurposed the old girl with a drop-bar setup. I'm really happy with the result.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The WTB Phoenix Thread-img_5286_sml.jpg  

    Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised

  57. #257
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    That looks super fun. How do you like the Woodchippers?
    Somec is like the digital Zunow
    And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5h3y0a9AU

  58. #258
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    So far so good on the woodchippers. Nice and wide, plenty of hand positions. The extension may be too long for veteran barcon users, but I don't know the difference so it's not a problem for me. :-)

    The only thing I wish I'd done different, is to rotate the barcons 90* so they shift horizontally and can't hit the top tube. I didn't think of that, and after I'd wrapped the bars I noticed a bike in the 29er monstercross thread set up that way. Don't want to take the chance of tearing the wrap, so I'm leaving them as they are for now.
    Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised

  59. #259
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    Good tip. It's those little things you learn by doing
    Another longer term project is to make my Monster a drop bar set up so I am trying to glean as much info as I can.
    Somec is like the digital Zunow
    And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5h3y0a9AU

  60. #260
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    my both Phoenix.

    Werner
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The WTB Phoenix Thread-img_2173.jpg  

    The WTB Phoenix Thread-img_2104.jpg  


  61. #261
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    Very nice Werner!!

  62. #262
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    Yes, very nice. That looks like a series 1 and a series 2 to me. Interesting to see how you made the Rock Shox enable to take the cam.
    CU @ OWMTBC 2010

  63. #263
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    here is a picture from the lever linking on the frontbrake from the red one.
    the white one is from '93,and the red one from '94

    Werner
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The WTB Phoenix Thread-img_2105.jpg  


  64. #264
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    Wow! Did you go through WTB when you got the bikes or did you go through Steve and Charlie directly?

  65. #265
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    Hi,
    here are some informations about the linking from the roller cam.
    The threads and dimensions are in inch and not in mm
    i found the linking together with a WTB rollercam (compact version)in a bikeshop about 25 miles from my home. I
    think itwas about 5 years ago.The shopowner didn't give me
    any informations about the parts,but he told me that he sold
    many parts to "collectors"
    His own bike is a Ritchey super comp.
    now he is selling garden tools,powermower and motorsaws.
    did someone know more about the linking? I think it was no serial produktion

    Werner

  66. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werner
    Hi,
    here are some informations about the linking from the roller cam.
    The threads and dimensions are in inch and not in mm
    i found the linking together with a WTB rollercam (compact version)in a bikeshop about 25 miles from my home. I
    think itwas about 5 years ago.The shopowner didn't give me
    any informations about the parts,but he told me that he sold
    many parts to "collectors"
    His own bike is a Ritchey super comp.
    now he is selling garden tools,powermower and motorsaws.
    did someone know more about the linking? I think it was no serial produktion

    Werner

    Yes, that's called a Lever Link and it's Charlie's favorite version of the RC platform. It was never sold because of WTB's concern with people not knowing how to properly adjust them and having unfavorable consequences (liability) if adjusted incorrectly. I have one on my Phoenix which I think is somewhere in this thread. It works really nicely and is very easily adjusted compared to a roller cam.

  67. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werner
    here is a picture from the lever linking on the frontbrake from the red one.
    the white one is from '93,and the red one from '94

    Werner


    Pardon the blasphemy, (as it's a beautiful brake and set up), but without the actual cam, it looks like a lot like the world's most elegant v-brake. I'm looking at the action of the arms and cable pull...am I seeing it wrong?




    Steve

  68. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastcoaststeve
    Pardon the blasphemy, (as it's a beautiful brake and set up), but without the actual cam, it looks like a lot like the world's most elegant v-brake. I'm looking at the action of the arms and cable pull...am I seeing it wrong?




    Steve

    Yes, you're seeing it backwards. The arms push outward - opposite the V brake.

  69. #269
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    I had already covered it here extensively, but I reasoned the final result belongs in 'The Phoenix Thread'

    The finished Phoenix >>

    CU @ OWMTBC 2010

  70. #270
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    What the hell, here's mine. Its set-up for being ridden hence the not period correct Groovy ti bars.


  71. #271
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    Nice. That saddle is a winner too.
    Somec is like the digital Zunow
    And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5h3y0a9AU

  72. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtdrop
    What the hell, here's mine. Its set-up for being ridden hence the not period correct Groovy ti bars.
    Nice I have a mate who is riding with the Luv Handles on his Groovy. He likes it a lot. The bar shown on my Phoenix is also by Rody, but conventional flat. Custom specs I asked for are 585mm wide and 6 degrees sweep. Rody even manufactured a ti shim with it.

    On the ''set-up for being ridden'' comment: To me it looks like most bikes in this thread are meant to be ridden. Some more than others, but they are no show bikes. I think that is a cool thing.
    CU @ OWMTBC 2010

  73. #273
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    My new, NOS 1995 Phoenix. 18" Forest Green, 140mm rear spacing, suspension corrected. Serial number 95372.

    Full writeup here: https://forums.mtbr.com/vintage-retro-classic/my-new-nos-1995-wilderness-trail-bikes-wtb-phoenix-lots-pics-621722.html

    Looking for/WTB : Grove Innovations Assault Fork, Grove Innovation Hammerhead Stem or Hothead Bar Stem

  74. #274
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    New here, but 2 WTB Phoenix bikes. I should scan the catalogs from them too (I have two when I first was hoping to get a Phoenix):

    this is a frame I got, and am still in the process of building it up. Getting a type II fork made for it:



    And here is a Ti one that I have that I love and ride all the time:



    I changed the fork on this one (came with the bike when I bought it), as the fork in the picture was too long and make the bike steer like a cadillac, now with a Fox 80 mm fork, it is a nimble awesome machine.

    have to get updated pictures...

  75. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by yo-Nate-y
    Nice. That saddle is a winner too.
    Ha, I was just about to say I want that seat.

  76. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir H C
    New here, but 2 WTB Phoenix bikes. I should scan the catalogs from them too (I have two when I first was hoping to get a Phoenix):

    this is a frame I got, and am still in the process of building it up. Getting a type II fork made for it
    Nice pair. Who's making your type II? I was under the impression that Potts was no longer making them.
    Need: McMahon brake for roller cam mounts, Mountain Goat fork.

  77. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir H C
    New here, but 2 WTB Phoenix bikes. I should scan the catalogs from them too (I have two when I first was hoping to get a Phoenix):

    this is a frame I got, and am still in the process of building it up. Getting a type II fork made for it:


    And here is a Ti one that I have that I love and ride all the time:


    I changed the fork on this one (came with the bike when I bought it), as the fork in the picture was too long and make the bike steer like a cadillac, now with a Fox 80 mm fork, it is a nimble awesome machine.

    have to get updated pictures...
    Great frames, and Ti bike just look so "right". I would love to seethe catalog scans if you get the chance.
    Looking for/WTB : Grove Innovations Assault Fork, Grove Innovation Hammerhead Stem or Hothead Bar Stem

  78. #278
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    Potts is supposedly doing it. I paid him a while back for it.

  79. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by apat13
    I would love to seethe catalog scans if you get the chance.
    Me too - the Phoenix catalog I know of on the web is too grainy to read in places

    http://www.mtb-kataloge.de/Bikekatal...F/WTB/1996.pdf

    and also

    http://www.mtb-kataloge.de/html/wtb.html
    Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised

  80. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir H C
    New here, but 2 WTB Phoenix bikes. I should scan the catalogs from them too (I have two when I first was hoping to get a Phoenix):

    this is a frame I got, and am still in the process of building it up. Getting a type II fork made for it:



    And here is a Ti one that I have that I love and ride all the time:


    I changed the fork on this one (came with the bike when I bought it), as the fork in the picture was too long and make the bike steer like a cadillac, now with a Fox 80 mm fork, it is a nimble awesome machine.

    have to get updated pictures...
    Two great bikes!
    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com
    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

  81. #281
    clunker
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    I finally get to play...picked this up earlier this year, ran SS while I collected some turn of the century bits. 94 SE SN 94250 (as far as I can read through the paint).



    Sorry for the lack of detail in the pics, I took them in haste and have been meaning to get some better ones...but they should give you the idea.

    Here she is geared up with a 2000 model Marz Z2 X-Fly - rebuilt, 1" steerer pressed in and reduced to 60mm, like buttah. NOS SST.98 saddle and Thomson 410mm post. Hubs are WTB Momentum GG, rear rim is a Laser Beam front is Mavic 717.



    SRAM 9.0 SL rear mech, M900 cassette and chain.


    M900 front mech and RF Turbine LP cranks, BB is a NOS WTB Momentum GG, 747 pedals that have seen better days but will not die ;-)



    King 1" MTB headset came with the bike, the X-Fly was nicely destickered. Front brakes are late 90s SRAM 9.0.



    Thomson 100mm post, Easton Monkey Light XC bar, SRAM 9.0 grip shifters. Speed Dial Ultimate levers handle the rear toggle cam and front V just fine.



    Eric
    ...strictly downhill...

  82. #282
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    Man, I have not thought much about my trusty phoenix since it's last re-haul circa 2002. Used it for the occasional trail ride, but mainly for towing a B.O.B. around town. I've been mostly road riding for most of the past decade. Having fallen head over heals for trail riding again over this winter, I came on to the forums recently to lurk and re-learn a few of the details about my 95XXX serial, suspension adjusted 15" phoenix, and my mind is blown by the community of Phoenix lovers out there. I approve.

    Mine is quite a mutt, but think that I have a few old classic parts that you all might dig, and some that will make you chuckle. I'll post pictures here soon.

    Thanks for all the info, and the memories.

  83. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashes
    Man, I have not thought much about my trusty phoenix since it's last re-haul circa 2002. Used it for the occasional trail ride, but mainly for towing a B.O.B. around town. I've been mostly road riding for most of the past decade. Having fallen head over heals for trail riding again over this winter, I came on to the forums recently to lurk and re-learn a few of the details about my 95XXX serial, suspension adjusted 15" phoenix, and my mind is blown by the community of Phoenix lovers out there. I approve.

    Mine is quite a mutt, but think that I have a few old classic parts that you all might dig, and some that will make you chuckle. I'll post pictures here soon.

    Thanks for all the info, and the memories.

    Post pics anyway!
    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com
    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

  84. #284
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    from 1996

    Last edited by Machianera; 08-10-2011 at 09:13 PM.

  85. #285
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    Rider:

    Seek: Koski Trailmaster. Breezer Series 2 or 3. Cunningham Racer.

  86. #286
    Hit The Road Cyclery
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    Another rider Less gears this time.


  87. #287
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    So, umm, anyone got a spare seat tube decal in silver kicking around?
    Somec is like the digital Zunow
    And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5h3y0a9AU

  88. #288
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    Yesterday:


    Today:

    Somec is like the digital Zunow
    And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5h3y0a9AU

  89. #289
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    well? what did ya think? Needs different hubs! (Everything else I can live with. ) Seems like lots of Californians smathered on some sunscreen and went riding today! woo hoo!

  90. #290
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    Full write-up coming soon. Suffice to say, what a well-mannered bike!
    Somec is like the digital Zunow
    And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5h3y0a9AU

  91. #291
    artistic...
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    rear tire must go... my eyes! beautifull frame color. beautifull build.
    WTB: Bomber Z2 1 1/8 steerer, in good to excellent shape OR bomber rebuild kit.

  92. #292
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    Frame 2 big

  93. #293
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    Funny, didn't feel like it 2 me.

    Full write-up here: http://forums.mtbr.com/vintage-retro...ix-765286.html
    Somec is like the digital Zunow
    And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5h3y0a9AU

  94. #294
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    2 jealous!

  95. #295
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    Got my '96 up and out for a shake down ride. Liking it. I have raced this bike locally but tweaked the build a bit.

  96. #296
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    Nice turbo. ( i know i am heading for a phoenix..)
    WTB: Bomber Z2 1 1/8 steerer, in good to excellent shape OR bomber rebuild kit.

  97. #297
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    TurboMatic! Looks great---the Steelman stem turned out to work really well.
    Somec is like the digital Zunow
    And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5h3y0a9AU

  98. #298
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    Bushpig- how did you get a Lever Link brake? I thought they never went into production.
    _

  99. #299
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    "its not what you know, its who you know.
    Need: McMahon brake for roller cam mounts, Mountain Goat fork.

  100. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by colker1 View Post
    rear tire must go... my eyes! beautifull frame color. beautifull build.
    Agreed. Otherwise, cool Phoenix.


    Quote Originally Posted by muddybuddy View Post
    "its not what you know, its who you know.

    Yep!
    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com
    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

  101. #301
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    My '98 Ti is in heavy ride rotation lately. Yesterday on Eldridge Grade (Mt. Tam):


  102. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by muddybuddy View Post
    "its not what you know, its who you know.
    Yep. From the WTB vault, this is an original lever link (and Charlie's favorite version):

    <img src="https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/threadedtitanium/DSC00230-1.jpg?t=1318204753">

  103. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by muddybuddy View Post
    "its not what you know, its who you know.
    Or what you know how to do.

    The WTB Phoenix Thread-img_0144.jpg

  104. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleCentury View Post
    Or what you know how to do.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Nice.

  105. #305
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    [QUOTE=DoubleCentury;8955736]Or what you know how to do.

    Funny!

    Seek: Koski Trailmaster. Breezer Series 2 or 3. Cunningham Racer.

  106. #306
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    You have to be light on that brake so you don't crush your rim sidewalls!

  107. #307
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    With a booster plate and this amount of leverage, the source of flex becomes the brake arms themselves. One finger braking for sure.

  108. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleCentury View Post
    Or what you know how to do.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Is that a mix of original and your handiwork? Or, all yours?
    Need: McMahon brake for roller cam mounts, Mountain Goat fork.

  109. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by muddybuddy View Post
    Is that a mix of original and your handiwork? Or, all yours?
    Pretty sure arms are original, lever link and brace portions are DC specials.
    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com
    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

  110. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpfy View Post
    Pretty sure arms are original, lever link and brace portions are DC specials.
    (Fork) Brace is vintage too.

  111. #311
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    That's right, the Judy fork arch was a WTB product and really beefy. I made the link and booster.

  112. #312
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    Am I alone in thinking subpar braking is all a part of the vintage experience?

    j/k. Nice work as always. Looks better in person.


    Why would you own 100 Yugos when you could own 1 Porsche? - Rumpfy



  113. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleCentury View Post
    With a booster plate and this amount of leverage, the source of flex becomes the brake arms themselves. One finger braking for sure.
    Especially when one rides the brakes as much as you do.
    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com
    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

  114. #314
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    Halaburt's ti is awesome. Never any issues with the Moratis? The scary internet pics seem to suggest they are worth more than they're, well, worth.


    Quote Originally Posted by yo-Nate-y View Post
    So, umm, anyone got a spare seat tube decal in silver kicking around?
    And this, quoted for desperation/persistence.....none 'round?
    Somec is like the digital Zunow
    And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5h3y0a9AU

  115. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by yo-Nate-y View Post
    Halaburt's ti is awesome. Never any issues with the Moratis? The scary internet pics seem to suggest they are worth more than they're, well, worth
    that goes without saying.

  116. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by yo-Nate-y View Post
    Halaburt's ti is awesome. Never any issues with the Moratis? The scary internet pics seem to suggest they are worth more than they're, well, worth.
    So far, so good. I do keep an eye on it though. Those went on it when the bike was new. I recall at the time not being able to find a new set of 181 CBR's (what I ran on all my other bikes at the time) and I couldn't bring myself to run the (IMO) ugly Shimano M950's.

    Quote Originally Posted by girlonbike View Post
    that goes without saying.
    I'll assume you're referring to the part of Nate's comment about how awesome my bike is.

  117. #317
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    This really pretty much has to be the best thread ever great pics and info lately

  118. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by halaburt View Post
    So far, so good. I do keep an eye on it though. Those went on it when the bike was new. I recall at the time not being able to find a new set of 181 CBR's (what I ran on all my other bikes at the time) and I couldn't bring myself to run the (IMO) ugly Shimano M950's.



    I'll assume you're referring to the part of Nate's comment about how awesome my bike is.
    awesome indeed! otoh i have to ask: why not barcons? I like them so much since i can shift on any situation and, being inside the bar, it gives a very solid platform for the levers. mho.. just curious.
    WTB: Bomber Z2 1 1/8 steerer, in good to excellent shape OR bomber rebuild kit.

  119. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by colker1 View Post
    awesome indeed! otoh i have to ask: why not barcons? I like them so much since i can shift on any situation and, being inside the bar, it gives a very solid platform for the levers. mho.. just curious.
    You mean barcon shifters on the Kelly mounts?... or on in the traditional position? I assume the former?

    At the time I don't think I knew/understood that Shimano barcons could use the same mount platform as the down tube type shifters. All the Kelly material only talked about DT shifters. Now that I know, I'd like to try the fatter/shorter barcon types on these mounts but just haven't gotten around to it.

    I've got barcons (in the traditional position) on Salsa Woodchippers on my Fargo and like that a lot actually... For future flared drop bar bikes running >8sp, I would probably go that route now. For <=8sp, I do like the various WTB mounts.

  120. #320
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    Barcons, traditional, inside the bars. I like it.
    WTB: Bomber Z2 1 1/8 steerer, in good to excellent shape OR bomber rebuild kit.

  121. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by yo-Nate-y View Post
    .....none 'round?
    I could also use a set of decals, in my case the newer ones.

  122. #322
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    Is my seatpost too long?


    WTB: Bontrager Comp Fork & Syncros metal top cap

  123. #323
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    You might be better on an 18".
    Somec is like the digital Zunow
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  124. #324
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    ...or playing basketball.
    WTB: Bomber Z2 1 1/8 steerer, in good to excellent shape OR bomber rebuild kit.

  125. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjustin007 View Post
    Is my seatpost too long?
    You might also ask the same question about your fork.

  126. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by yo-Nate-y View Post
    You might be better on an 18".
    I think so, I've been looking for a trade. . .

    Quote Originally Posted by colker1 View Post
    ...or playing basketball.
    I still play recreationally. I'm 6'5", but only have a 34" inseam, and a long torso.

    Quote Originally Posted by halaburt View Post
    You might also ask the same question about your fork.
    It's a Z2 BAM, 1998, I think, so it should be 70mm, right?
    WTB: Bontrager Comp Fork & Syncros metal top cap

  127. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjustin007 View Post
    I think so, I've been looking for a trade. . .

    I still play recreationally. I'm 6'5", but only have a 34" inseam, and a long torso.

    You would definitely be better served with an 18... Didn't someone just recently pick up a large Phoenix frame and want a medium?

  128. #328
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    Does it interfere with the water bottle braze ons.....
    Seek: Koski Trailmaster. Breezer Series 2 or 3. Cunningham Racer.

  129. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMF View Post
    You would definitely be better served with an 18... Didn't someone just recently pick up a large Phoenix frame and want a medium?
    I remember that too. Justin, do a search, I think I remember that in the trade thread or WIW thread.

  130. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlonbike View Post
    I remember that too. Justin, do a search, I think I remember that in the trade thread or WIW thread.
    GOB - I posted in a couple of places looking for a trade, so it may be my posts you are thinking of. Have 15" looking for 18" or 19.5", not the other way around.
    WTB: Bontrager Comp Fork & Syncros metal top cap

  131. #331
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    For thread comprehensiveness. The current build on my '98.



    Somec is like the digital Zunow
    And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5h3y0a9AU

  132. #332
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    that looks nice!

    Does anyone know if there were any top pull front derailleur Ti Phoenix?

    Are those the ones sold in the early 2000's and finished by others than SP?
    Last edited by Machianera; 05-09-2012 at 01:59 PM.

  133. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machianera View Post
    Does anyone know if there were any top pull front derailleur Ti Phoenix?

    Are those the ones sold in the early 2000's and finished by others than SP?
    Gee, I wonder why you ask. ;p

    I don't think any production, made-by-SP ones came that way --- although obviously customers could request some customization. As for you second question, I don't think it's just a start/finish thing. Look at the serial number (if any).

  134. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by halaburt View Post
    Gee, I wonder why you ask. ;p

    I don't think any production, made-by-SP ones came that way --- although obviously customers could request some customization. As for you second question, I don't think it's just a start/finish thing. Look at the serial number (if any).

    Just curious

    I was hanging out with a friend that used to have a couple of phoenix back then. He told me about a disk brake model with top pull routing. There is a picture of what i think is the bike on the BMC blog (650 conversion)...

    I guess they are wtb frames but no phoenix.

  135. #335
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    Mine at Bernal Heights, and with a ti jobbie on the Flume Trail in Tahoe (my filter= plastic baggie).





    Somec is like the digital Zunow
    And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5h3y0a9AU

  136. #336
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    And a couple less gauzy pics:



    Somec is like the digital Zunow
    And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5h3y0a9AU

  137. #337
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    Very stoked to now sport a Type II thanks to a gracious fellow MTBR and Fat Cog'er:


    Somec is like the digital Zunow
    And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5h3y0a9AU

  138. #338
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    How do you like Mary?
    Seek: Koski Trailmaster. Breezer Series 2 or 3. Cunningham Racer.

  139. #339
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    Those are Groovy Luv Handles and I like them a lot. A nice swept ti bar would also be cool (and lighter), but the Luvs are super comfy.
    Somec is like the digital Zunow
    And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5h3y0a9AU

  140. #340
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    You're getting there! Those forks look perfect on there.

  141. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by yo-Nate-y View Post
    Very stoked to now sport a Type II thanks to a gracious fellow MTBR and Fat Cog'er:


    Looks amazing!

  142. #342
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    Now, that's a proper Phoenix. Goofy bars aside.
    Need: McMahon brake for roller cam mounts, Mountain Goat fork.

  143. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainlyfats View Post
    Looks amazing!
    Much obliged!
    Somec is like the digital Zunow
    And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5h3y0a9AU

  144. #344
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    Hi everyone,
    I've been peeping around this thread every once in a while over the last decade and finally decided to drop in and share a story and get some guidance on what to do with my 1998? WTB Phoenix

    It's a bit of a miracle that I have this bike, I was on a rare visit to my uncle in Mill Valley in 2001 where I spotted a bike, missing its wheels and seat post, tucked next to a shed. I asked him about it and he said he pulled it off the top of a truck load he was hired to take from a house that was being repossessed. He figured it was someone who lost their shirt in the dot com boom. I told him what it was which was surprising since he grew up in the middle of the whole Mt Tam scene. He gave it to me as a late birthday present (12th) and I took it to Steve, who happens to be an old family friend, to see if he had the odd sized seat post. After I got it all rolling, I got to ride it around Mt Tam and the hills above Pt Reyes a few times before heading back to Washington, where it was an everyday rider more than a mountain bike. Now I've been in college for the last few years and have grown out of the bike, and haven't been riding it, I can't justify selling it, but want to give it a proper build so that I'll ride it. I was planning to put disks on it as I already had wheel and fork mounts and Steve said he'd weld a rear mount on for me.
    I don't consider myself a mountain biker, but do restore and collect Prewar bicycles and have rebuilt a few Klunkers for family who had them back in the day. So I just want some advice one what you guys would do.
    -Nolan

  145. #345
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    I definitely wouldn't get disc mounts. I would wash, wax, put a bunch of nice xtr parts on it and enjoy the hell out of it.

    Not only would I do that but I do do that.

  146. #346
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    +1 on the no discs. As far as you out growing the bike, you might try to find someone to trade sizes with you to get one that fits properly. Or if you're dead set on the discs, you could maybe trade it for a frame that already has disc mounts. Post a pic of it when you get a chance.
    Need: McMahon brake for roller cam mounts, Mountain Goat fork.

  147. #347
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    Just posted an image in my gallery as I cannot post links yet.
    The kicker would be that the mount would be welded on by Steve Potts himself, It has been the only change I have considered as the braking power of the old wtb roller cams is not that impressive compared to disks.

  148. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColsonTwinbar View Post
    Just posted an image in my gallery as I cannot post links yet.
    The kicker would be that the mount would be welded on by Steve Potts himself, It has been the only change I have considered as the braking power of the old wtb roller cams is not that impressive compared to disks.
    That really doesn't change anything to me. Don't do it.

  149. #349
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    Actually, just send me those sucky WTB roller cams and get yourself some disc brakes.

  150. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by muddybuddy View Post
    +1 on the no discs. As far as you out growing the bike, you might try to find someone to trade sizes with you to get one that fits properly. Or if you're dead set on the discs, you could maybe trade it for a frame that already has disc mounts. Post a pic of it when you get a chance.
    ^^^ Agreed.

    If you want a bike with discs sell the Phoenix and use the money to buy a different bike.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  151. #351
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    Ya! PM sent!
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  152. #352
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    As a collector of other styles of bikes, I wont be letting any original parts far from the bike. I am however interested in trading for a larger frame. This is a 16" and I'm 6' 1", so a little compact for me.

  153. #353
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    It has roller cam on the chainstays and wtb cantilever in the front.

  154. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColsonTwinbar View Post
    As a collector of other styles of bikes, I wont be letting any original parts far from the bike. I am however interested in trading for a larger frame. This is a 16" and I'm 6' 1", so a little compact for me.
    I'm glad to hear that you won't be letting original parts slip through your fingers. I would keep it original and enjoy.

  155. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColsonTwinbar View Post
    As a collector of other styles of bikes, I wont be letting any original parts far from the bike. I am however interested in trading for a larger frame. This is a 16" and I'm 6' 1", so a little compact for me.
    A larger frame would be better but they are rather hard to come by. One option would be to get a super long layback post and a gigantic stem and make it work. Might not even look too terribly bad.
    Somec is like the digital Zunow
    And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5h3y0a9AU

  156. #356
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    Here are some photos of my '98 Phoenix, I'm the original owner. 13.5", 140mm rear end, Toggle Cam, 140mm New Paradigm rear hub in Gunmetal Blue.
    I was told that it is the 1st or 2nd 13.5" Phoenix the made or sold. I believe '98 was the first year they did the in between sizes in 13.5" and 17.5"
    Photos of photos (sorry, no access to a scanner) of the original build in '98. Also a photo of my invoice.
    More recent photos at the end, plus a photo of the BB serial number, but I have since changed the fork to a 120mm SID, in black which looks much nicer and brings the handling back a bit, certainly better than the 140mm Recon fork in the photo
    I don't ride it too much any more because a hardtail isn't really appropriate for the terrain where I live, but I did recently ride it in a 55 mile "mixed terrain" race/ride, equipped with Nano Raptors I held my own with the CAT 1 guys on CX bikes.
    Enjoy...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The WTB Phoenix Thread-img_0246.jpg  

    The WTB Phoenix Thread-img_0247.jpg  

    The WTB Phoenix Thread-img_0248.jpg  

    The WTB Phoenix Thread-img_0250.jpg  

    The WTB Phoenix Thread-img_0797.jpg  

    The WTB Phoenix Thread-img_0793.jpg  

    The WTB Phoenix Thread-img_0794.jpg  

    The WTB Phoenix Thread-img_0795.jpg  

    The WTB Phoenix Thread-img_0798.jpg  

    The WTB Phoenix Thread-img_0799.jpg  


  157. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by rammer View Post
    Here are some photos of my '98 Phoenix, I'm the original owner. 13.5", 140mm rear end, Toggle Cam, 140mm New Paradigm rear hub in Gunmetal Blue.
    I was told that it is the 1st or 2nd 13.5" Phoenix the made or sold. I believe '98 was the first year they did the in between sizes in 13.5" and 17.5"
    Photos of photos (sorry, no access to a scanner) of the original build in '98. Also a photo of my invoice.
    More recent photos at the end, plus a photo of the BB serial number, but I have since changed the fork to a 120mm SID, in black which looks much nicer and brings the handling back a bit, certainly better than the 140mm Recon fork in the photo
    I don't ride it too much any more because a hardtail isn't really appropriate for the terrain where I live, but I did recently ride it in a 55 mile "mixed terrain" race/ride, equipped with Nano Raptors I held my own with the CAT 1 guys on CX bikes.
    Enjoy...

    Nice. Similar set up to mine with the disc/tc combo. I'm kinda surprised a 98 has those mounts since v-brake were all the rage at that point.

    That thing must be a chopper with 120mm fork. I can't fathom 140mm fork. 63mm....80mm maybe.
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  158. #358
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    I'll have to check the HTA. You can argue that the longer fork gives it a more evolved geometry anyway. A longer travel fork 120mm fork will be setup for more sag than an 80mm that it was "designed" for, so the delta isn't 40mm axle to crown but a bit less, assuming similar crown and dropout height. Moving the seat forward a bit restores the STA to good enough. Old school 71 HTA are a bit overrated in my opinion, just have to setup for corners a bit better at slower speeds with the slacker HTA.
    Still have an 80mm Z2 BAM, and an older '95 Judy SL with DH dampers (75mm?) but I'd rather have the more modern damping and a bit more travel for what I have to ride where I live. Paired with 2.4 tires it works OK. Lack of disc brake in the rear is a bit limiting though. When riding where you're not suspension or brake limited, it works well..but so does any bike I suppose.

  159. #359
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    You were able to get a 2.4 in the rear?
    I stepped down a size when a 2.35 wouldn't fit in mine.

    Seek: Koski Trailmaster. Breezer Series 2 or 3. Cunningham Racer.

  160. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by rammer View Post
    I'll have to check the HTA. You can argue that the longer fork gives it a more evolved geometry anyway. A longer travel fork 120mm fork will be setup for more sag than an 80mm that it was "designed" for, so the delta isn't 40mm axle to crown but a bit less, assuming similar crown and dropout height. Moving the seat forward a bit restores the STA to good enough. Old school 71 HTA are a bit overrated in my opinion, just have to setup for corners a bit better at slower speeds with the slacker HTA.
    Still have an 80mm Z2 BAM, and an older '95 Judy SL with DH dampers (75mm?) but I'd rather have the more modern damping and a bit more travel for what I have to ride where I live. Paired with 2.4 tires it works OK. Lack of disc brake in the rear is a bit limiting though. When riding where you're not suspension or brake limited, it works well..but so does any bike I suppose.

    Good points. I guess the/my (perceived?) suggishness throws me enough to shy away from going to that much travel.

    Where I'm at, I can tackle 90+% of the trails with 63mm and a 2.24 up front (with some buzzing if I come down hard enough).

    What kind of terrain are we talkin' about where you live?

    If you think that rear brake is limiting, I'll gladly take it off your hands. You can weld on a rear disc tab!


    -eric-

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  161. #361
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    when you initiate a turn, the weight is off the front, fork decompresses and you need to turn it like a wheel barrow.. ymmv.
    i love when i can unweigh the front and it's still nimble.

  162. #362
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    Super easy to unweigh the fork when it is choppered out
    Somec is like the digital Zunow
    And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5h3y0a9AU

  163. #363
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    Won't be converting to disc, the Toggle Cam is a big part of what makes this bike. Apparently the small sizes are real challenging for Roller Cam due to cable routing which is what let to the Toggle Cam design. I also remember another version known as Scissor Cam, but I think that was just a prototype, that version allowed the cable housing to be routed all the way to the brake. Lots of ways to tackle a basic mechanical linkage.

    Most of the riding I do is on the central coast, it's pretty rocky here. When I first moved here with only that bike I ended up running 2.25 IRC Missiles, they were the only thing at the time that would hold up well enough to not pinch flat every other ride.

    I take this bike out maybe once or twice a year mainly for nostalgia, it just reminds me that a hardtail isn't well suited for most of the terrain around here. You can do it, but if you have a full suspension bike as an option to ride, that weighs nearly the same, why not just ride that instead.

    On a really steep descent where you're keeping your speed in check with a lot of brake drag, you can notice your right arm pumps up more than the left. Seems to demonstrate the advantage of disc vs rim brake. I run a hydraulic disc brake up front. It could very well be the lever ergonomics though.

    I'm pretty sure I've had a 2.4 Mutano Raptor on the rear of this bike..but I could be mistaken.

    So that should answer most of the questions and comments above...

    Another WTB trinket I have is a RS Judy brake brace. I had broken the stock one on my '95 Judy SL. The cool thing is it can accept post mounts for a Roller Cam, I think it had accommodations for a bolt on cable housing stop, but I was running V-brakes so didn't have the cable stop. I also remember seeing the Scissor Cam brakes mounted on one of these. I'll post some photos when I get a chance.

  164. #364
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    We've seen the scissor cam here. Maybe even this thread.

  165. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by rammer View Post
    Another WTB trinket I have is a RS Judy brake brace. I had broken the stock one on my '95 Judy SL. The cool thing is it can accept post mounts for a Roller Cam, I think it had accommodations for a bolt on cable housing stop, but I was running V-brakes so didn't have the cable stop. I also remember seeing the Scissor Cam brakes mounted on one of these. I'll post some photos when I get a chance.
    I picked up one of those stops at a swap not too long ago, still looking for the brace though..

    looking for 20-21" P team

  166. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollister View Post
    I picked up one of those stops at a swap not too long ago, still looking for the brace though..


    I'll take that for the brakes you owe me for.

  167. #367
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    WTB brake bridge
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The WTB Phoenix Thread-img_0450.jpg  


  168. #368
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    Recent photos of the Phoenix
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The WTB Phoenix Thread-img_0454.jpg  

    The WTB Phoenix Thread-img_0456.jpg  

    The WTB Phoenix Thread-img_0457.jpg  


  169. #369
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    No pedals, tricky.
    -eric-

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    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

  170. #370
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    Current state of the 1994 SE - finally hung the new shoes.



    WTB New Paradigm 32h hub, LASER beam rim, all NOS and Gravy built. Ti XTR 8-speed cogs.


    WTB New Paradigm 28h front.


    SB8 is no longer on there, Mutano 2.24 front and 2.4 rear.
    ...strictly downhill...

  171. #371
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    Waiting to be build up, searching for WTB part as hubs and headset 1"
    Can't wait till it rolls

    The WTB Phoenix Thread-l1013087.jpg

    The WTB Phoenix Thread-l1013094.jpg

    No, not really with this Manitou, it will build up with the original fork from Steve Potts

    The WTB Phoenix Thread-l1013149.jpg

  172. #372
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    Nice entrance today.

  173. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by aspreti View Post
    Waiting to be build up, searching for WTB part as hubs and headset 1"
    Can't wait till it rolls

    No, not really with this Manitou, it will build up with the original fork from Steve Potts
    Welcome! Always did like the white Phoeni best. Glad you went with a correct fork from Steve.
    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com
    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

  174. #374
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    Here is my Phoenix Frame I bought in 97 and still haven't put any parts on it! LOL trying to get it done right! Looking for advice on parts etc.


    The WTB Phoenix Thread-image-2-.jpgThe WTB Phoenix Thread-image-3-.jpgThe WTB Phoenix Thread-photo-42-.jpg

  175. #375
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    pahydroman, guessing your PM box will be very busy, very soon.


    Steve

  176. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by pathydroman View Post
    Here is my Phoenix Frame I bought in 97 and still haven't put any parts on it! LOL trying to get it done right! Looking for advice on parts etc.
    'Trying to get it done right' has kept you from building it for 16 years?

    IMO, full M950 XTR 8spd.
    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com
    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

  177. #377
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    That, except with m950 series v-brakes and levers but m730 series thumbshifters for the win.
    Somec is like the digital Zunow
    And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5h3y0a9AU

  178. #378
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    If it is 140mm spaced in the rear, widening a Chris King is going to be easier than finding a wide WTB (and lighter, and louder--in a good way).
    Somec is like the digital Zunow
    And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5h3y0a9AU

  179. #379
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    Was the 140 hub shell wider, or just a longer axle and more spacers on the non-drive side to reduce dish? IIIRC, that was the original hub approach.
    FWIW, i'm running a Ti axle for a 135 XTR hub and it just barely works for my 140 rear spacing.

    Also, i'm curious about what a "proper" build for a phoenix would be. Obviously WTB bearings (hubs, headset, BB if you are lucky), brakes, rims, saddle tires seem a likely choice... after that? Hrmm... i guess that's most of a bike... Suntour build. I think i answered my own question :-)
    I'd love to find a powerband stem.

  180. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpfy View Post

    IMO, full M950 XTR 8spd.
    A little bland, but super solid. But what else was there in 97? In my opinion, thumbshifters seem too lazy for the laser-precision, singletrack-slicing Phoenix.

    Some Koski stuff (stem, bars, brakes, etc) would be cool too as the two companies were at some point (and somehow) collaborating.

  181. #381
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    Wider axle. I have one somewhere.

  182. #382
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    One I bought back when I lived in the bay and thought I would of built it then. I moved and then kids and just never got around to it. Now I am getting into riding with my kids etc and would like to just build it up.

    Yes it is a rear 140mm. I also can't seem to find any numbers stamped into it? Maybe just not looking in right spot?

  183. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by yo-Nate-y View Post
    If it is 140mm spaced in the rear, widening a Chris King is going to be easier than finding a wide WTB (and lighter, and louder--in a good way).
    Good call.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fillet-brazed View Post
    A little bland, but super solid. But what else was there in 97? In my opinion, thumbshifters seem too lazy for the laser-precision, singletrack-slicing Phoenix.
    Some Koski stuff (stem, bars, brakes, etc) would be cool too as the two companies were at some point (and somehow) collaborating.
    Ya...not a whole lot of other options out there. The beginning of the dull era of MTB. Not sure what fork to run. White? Bomber?

    Quote Originally Posted by pathydroman View Post
    One I bought back when I lived in the bay and thought I would of built it then. I moved and then kids and just never got around to it. Now I am getting into riding with my kids etc and would like to just build it up. Yes it is a rear 140mm. I also can't seem to find any numbers stamped into it? Maybe just not looking in right spot?
    Serial number is under the BB. Hope you get it up and running without too much fuss. You missed a lot of years riding the best hardtail ever made.
    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com
    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

  184. #384
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    Thanks just found it. #96476

  185. #385
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    So I take it the more WTB parts I can find for it might be the best idea for it? Does anyone know what the value of it would be? I think I need to start a large list of parts! LOL

  186. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by pathydroman View Post
    So I take it the more WTB parts I can find for it might be the best idea for it?
    Its your bike - do what you want :-)

    I just know, in general, WTB made a lot of bike components, and many of them were quite good. Around 2000, they were starting to transition into the lesser company they are today. They pretty much made everything except drivetrain bits (with the hubs being an exception). Anything "New Paradigm" is pretty good and built for the long-haul.

  187. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by pathydroman View Post
    So I take it the more WTB parts I can find for it might be the best idea for it? Does anyone know what the value of it would be? I think I need to start a large list of parts! LOL
    That's the way I built my '96 Phoenix, the main exception being I couldn't find (or afford) WTB thumb shifter mounts for drop bars, so I went with M900 Rapid Fire and DKG mounts, and I had a WTB SST saddle on it but then remembered I didn't like them back then and still don't now. If you hunt around most of the New Paradigm parts aren't hard to find, you just have to be willing to fork out the cash and they aren't cheap. Sorry for the craptastic photo, I'll post a better one tomorrow when I can take it outside.




  188. #388
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    Great looking phoenix!

  189. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Anomie- View Post
    That's the way I built my '96 Phoenix, the main exception being I couldn't find (or afford) WTB thumb shifter mounts for drop bars, so I went with M900 Rapid Fire and DKG mounts, and I had a WTB SST saddle on it but then remembered I didn't like them back then and still don't now. If you hunt around most of the New Paradigm parts aren't hard to find, you just have to be willing to fork out the cash and they aren't cheap. Sorry for the craptastic photo, I'll post a better one tomorrow when I can take it outside.
    What's the story on the seat stay brakes?

  190. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fillet-brazed View Post
    What's the story on the seat stay brakes?
    Wasn't that an option?

  191. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by stan lee View Post
    Wasn't that an option?
    Woops, scratch that. Momentary memory malfunction. :\

  192. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fillet-brazed View Post
    Momentary memory malfunction.
    Don't think it hasn't gone unnoticed that you HAVE a seat stay U brake phoenix...

  193. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMF View Post
    Don't think it hasn't gone unnoticed that you HAVE a seat stay U brake phoenix...
    haha!! Did I mention I haven't ridden it in months, but have ridden my Cunningham recently? Ok, that's all the excuse I got.

  194. #394
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    Well, 2 things. Sorry for insulting your bike with the "U brake" comment. Roller/toggle cam is the respectful terminology here, and I would not be able to remember everything about every bike if I had as many as you...

  195. #395
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    Still Going...

    ... and recently used to illustrate the differences between good and bad twinkly garnishing.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The WTB Phoenix Thread-img_6285small.jpg  


  196. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by pathydroman View Post
    Thanks just found it. #96476
    Older than mine - #96529
    Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised

  197. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir H C View Post
    New here, but 2 WTB Phoenix bikes. I should scan the catalogs from them too (I have two when I first was hoping to get a Phoenix):

    this is a frame I got, and am still in the process of building it up. Getting a type II fork made for it:



    And here is a Ti one that I have that I love and ride all the time:



    I changed the fork on this one (came with the bike when I bought it), as the fork in the picture was too long and make the bike steer like a cadillac, now with a Fox 80 mm fork, it is a nimble awesome machine.

    have to get updated pictures...
    I sold you that Ti Phoenix. I'd like to buy it back. I was sick when I sold it and was unable to ride....Turn out the doctors were wrong....

    I miss that bike....it should be SN:24, but I'm positive it's my old one.

  198. #398
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    Welcome to VRC. Great first post. I would like that Ti Phoenix also.
    Seek: Koski Trailmaster. Breezer Series 2 or 3. Cunningham Racer.

  199. #399
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    The WTB Phoenix Thread

    Oh, I didn't know it was for sale. Did I miss something? In that case, I'd like to buy it too.

  200. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by wxflyer View Post
    Oh, I didn't know it was for sale. Did I miss something? In that case, I'd like to buy it too.

    I dont think the guy is on here anymore....

    I was bored the other day and thought I would start looking at bikes again. I was wondering what Steve Potts had and then thought, " I wonder what happened to my old bike?" I love google Image search so I typed in WTB Ti Phoenix and there it was on the first page..... I know it is mine from the fork and the fact I let Shimano use me as a guinea pig for those silly shifters.

    I'll find his original Email and see if he is interested in selling it. I did have him promise me that he would offer it to me before he sold it to anyone else.

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