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  1. #1
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    A Woodsie??

    So I'm reading Jeff Mapes "Pedaling Revolution" right now. Good book BTW...

    There's a reference early on in the book (p. 46, and perhaps I'm not paying attention, and this has been discussed ad nauseum) to a friend of Gary Fisher, John Finley Scott. I guess Scott gave Fisher a $10,000 loan to help with bike production. But what was curious was the next sentence. "Scott had himself built an early version of the mountain bike in 1953 that he called the Woodsie".

    I guess Scott was murdered in 2006, and I have no idea if he had any sort of impact on the industry beyond his loan to Gary, but I'm just curious. 1953? The guy was thinking! Anyone know anything about the Woodsie? Just a one off, or did he hook up a few pals? Pics, details, references?

    It just sparked my interest, wonder what he did to make it off road friendly with 50's technology....
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    Check out this video excerpt from the movie Klunkerz on YouTube. He talks about it early in this clip. This interview and tribute to JFS was in the special features on the DVD. Cool stuff.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHWo_h1nBx4

    From here there are a couple of other clips with Finley and other Klunkerz stuff.
    Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. -- Wild Bill

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    I think this has been covered on this forum b/f if I have my names right. The guy had some pretty cool sketches of the 'woodsie', with everything labeled and what not... maybe it was a different site. here's some info:

    http://californiabicyclemuseum.org/gallery/era/7/105
    http://californiabicyclemuseum.org/gallery/era/7/106

    To me, this fella doesn't repesent 'the real father of mtn biking', but serves more as a reminder that there were lots of guys riding bikes.. many times necessarliy 'off road' due to lack of roads... that were essentially 'mountain biking'.

    Like everything, I guess it comes down to semantics. Who was the first to actually do it, who birthed the sport, who birthed the industry, etc. Different answers for all.

    Fwiw, looks like a much more capable machine than a Klunker.

    -Schmitty-

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    Thanks guys, that's pretty cool. Schmitty, I'm sure there were tons of guys all over that simultaneously, spontaneously and independently were doing the same thing, and had been for years. Let's face it, 1800's riders were dealing with stuff that would be familiar to any modern trail rider.

    I figured if anybody would have an idea, it'd be here, I consider myself, a bit more edumacated.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmitty
    To me, this fella doesn't repesent 'the real father of mtn biking', but serves more as a reminder that there were lots of guys riding bikes.. many times necessarliy 'off road' due to lack of roads... that were essentially 'mountain biking'.

    Like everything, I guess it comes down to semantics. Who was the first to actually do it, who birthed the sport, who birthed the industry, etc. Different answers for all.-Schmitty-
    So true. The military experimented with what were then considered fat tire bikes in the late 19th century. I am sure a bunch of kids in places like rural Ohio or Idaho rode their fat tire Schwinns and Columbias on dirt trails in the 30s-40s. The Morrow DC had advanced the offroad bike ahead of the Marin bunch with gears and front brakes.

    I look at it like each of these ideas, experiments and advancements pushed the sport/hobby along in its evolution but that there was really no Big Bang that put mountain biking on the scene. Whatever Fisher, Kelly (along with input and resources from JFS), Breeze, Ritchey, Cunningham and the rest did sure got the attention of the cycling world and potential cyclers on a larger scale. They made it look fun, marketed the concept well and likely opened it up exponentially.

    Dave
    Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. -- Wild Bill

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    More info and a pic here (starts in the upper right):
    https://www.oldmountainbikes.com/cat...1981_02-03.jpg
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

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    John Finley Scott had a huge impact and involvement with mtbs. Most of the TA cranks you see on the early Ritcheys were all once JFS'. He had early 650b bikes with triples and knobbies, the 1953 modified Schwinn, and very early (pre 1970) drawings of a really cool fiberblass mtb. Hey, and I even posted a pic of his old Double Decker Bus here that he used to transport all the norcal hotshots down to southern CA for the Reseda to Sea race.

  8. #8
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    John Finley Scott was a dear friend and a huge influence on Gary and me. Of course he independently invented the mountain bike 25 years before we stumbled across the concept, but the time was not right in 1953 and it was right in 1979.

    John didn't give us money, but he gave us his enormous stash of TA cranksets, thousands of dollars worth, which went on the early MountainBikes. He also allowed us to used his Hewlett-packard word processor to assemble our catalog. I could go on and on. John Finley Scott was a towering figure even though he was only about 5'6".

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    here's a recent pic of JFS' old Double Decker:

    <img src="https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/tinc500/DSC03399-1.jpg">

    thread:

    https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.p...=double+decker

  10. #10
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    FB, Funny, so many names get tossed about, I didn't connect that bus to him.

    RR, So the book's quote was a bit off huh? History is an interesting art. One mans cranks is another mans cash

    A belated condolences for the loss of your friend. Sounds (from the book at least) to be a pretty sad, random event, sucks.....

    Thanks all!
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  11. #11
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    Here is another effort from 1967:


    1:1 gearing, 3 speed hub, extended brakes, suspension fork, reinforced seat, spread stays......

    More pictures and details @ https://www.firstflightbikes.com/1967_JCHiggins.htm

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by First Flight
    Here is another effort from 1967:
    That fork rocks the house!

    I love when you can see just what they were thinking, and how they got there, awesome.

    Thanks Jeff
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    A Woodsie

    Well, is it just me, or does "A Woodsie" have connotations that are not purely MTB-related ;-)

    Anyway, a google search turned up this:
    http://californiabicyclemuseum.org/gallery/era/7/106
    Note the specs call for a fiberglass frame, and possibly a fiberglass fork and rear rack too!

    There's an actual pic of one here:
    http://californiabicyclemuseum.org/gallery/era/7/105
    Wanted: Phil Wood front hub, one orphan WTB shifter mount.

  14. #14
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    Like...

    Quote Originally Posted by deluxe
    Well, is it just me, or does "A Woodsie" have connotations that are not purely MTB-related ;-)
    ...waking up with morning woodsie? It's crazy that a 1953 mountain bike looked so much like the advanced actual ones 30 years later

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by deluxe
    Well, is it just me, or does "A Woodsie" have connotations that are not purely MTB-related ;-)
    Out here a "woodsie" was what you called a party in the woods with beer and a fire.

    Sounds like a good place to ride a bike like the Woodsie to.
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  16. #16
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    Man, now I want some old bikes, a bunch of equally old bike parts, some bell bottoms, a case of Schlitz, a bunch of time, a stack of wood, a match, and a group of friends. I think we just found the fountain of youth for MTB
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1
    It's crazy that a 1953 mountain bike looked so much like the advanced actual ones 30 years later
    Parallel evolution and solid evidence that not only did we not "invent" the mountain bike, but that the design for a mountain bike was obvious once you started thinking about what you wanted to do with it.

    Why do you think John liked Gary and me so much? We were just like him, except for the hippie part. He wasn't on board with all the dope smoking, but he put up with it because it was part of the package.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    Man, now I want some old bikes, a bunch of equally old bike parts, some bell bottoms, a case of Schlitz, a bunch of time, a stack of wood, a match, and a group of friends. I think we just found the fountain of youth for MTB

    Don't forget the old beater stake side truck to get all our crap out there in the hills -- stack 'em on
    Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. -- Wild Bill

  19. #19
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    I made a tribute film for Finley's posthumous induction into the MTB Hall of Fame in '08. Those are the clips that you see on YouTube. He was, among other things, an amazing photographer. After his untimely death, 1000s of images were found among his possessions. That's when the rendering of that carbon bike, drawn in 1953, was found. I've seen quite a few of the images that he left behind. Amazing stuff. Perhaps, one day, his story will be told in detail. I hope so.
    Finley 1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHWo_h1nBx4
    Finley 2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jas0Z...eature=related
    Finley 4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjMUD...eature=related

  20. #20
    Glorified Hybrid Owner
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    This was discussed on DR a couple years back.

    According to RepackRider, we owe a lot to JFS.

    There are some other links and info on here as well, so I think it's worth a read.

    http://www.dirtragmag.com/forums//ar...p/t-18673.html

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