Slipping rear wheel in horizontal dropouts (bontrager frame)- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Slipping rear wheel in horizontal dropouts (bontrager frame)

    The slipping seat post thread reminded me why I stopped riding my older Bontrager. Recently it has started torquing the drive side and cocking the wheel in the frame, damn near every time I put a little oomph in the cranks. Unrideable. Tried a variety of skewers. Problem started with Salsa flip-offs but then I went back to the original Suntour skewer and still no go. Tried an old steel shimano skewer, no joy. I've degreased all relevant surfaces and cranked down on the skewers much more than I would normally, all to no avail. Any help would be appreciated.

  2. #2
    Mtn Biker Machinist
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    Quick release+horizontal dropouts=problem

    unless you use some kind of chain tug (like surly tugnuts), it is hard to keep a QR from slipping in Horiz dropouts. You need a bolt on axle, or chain tugs. Are you running it singlespeed or geared?

    frog

  3. #3
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    QRs tend not to clamp as well as bolt-on hubs. If you can go that option, it will solve the problem. I have a set of Am Classic SS wheels and the rear bolt has teeth that brad the frame tight. There's no slipping.

    If you have rear track dropouts (unlikely on a Bontrager) you can use a tensioner to secure the wheel and still use a QR. I'm not sure if anyone makes a tensioner for use on a "standard" drop out.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  4. #4
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    drive side photo of offending bike



    The thing is, I rode this bike for 2 seasons before it 'suddenly' became a problem. I know that QR don't hold as well but this bike's always had QR and worked fine. Bolting on the rear wheel is always an option but that seems to me to be fixing the symptom, not fixing the problem. Why it would suddenly become an issue is the answer I'm trying to find. Oh, yeah, I'm looking for a solution as well

    I've actually got a set of Salsa bolt on skewers. Maybe they'll end up on the bike after all.

  5. #5
    Mtn Biker Machinist
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    Shimano QR

    Use the cheap and heavy shimano QR with all steel nuts and axle, not the steel or aluminum on plastic ones. They bite better on steel, and you can really crank them down. Any aluminum QR will deform from the steel frame being harder than the QR.

    frog

  6. #6
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    I've read and heard good things about the DT Swiss RWS quick release skewers. They supposedly have a lot of clamping force than a standard QR. Not vintage, but might be worth a shot?

    http://aebike.com/page.cfm?action=de...=30&SKU=QR1913

  7. #7
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    Slipping on SS is common, but not common on a geared bike. Have you tried a different rear wheel?
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by paetersen
    Recently it has started torquing the drive side and cocking the wheel in the frame,
    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux
    Slipping on SS is common, but not common on a geared bike. Have you tried a different rear wheel?
    Are you using a WTB GG hub by chance?

    I remember the steel insert on the drive side having issues with the thin Bontrager dropout mating surface with those early hubs.


    +1 on the Shimano QR with lots of bite and leverage.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by crconsulting
    Are you using a WTB GG hub by chance?

    I remember the steel insert on the drive side having issues with the thin Bontrager dropout mating surface with those early hubs.


    +1 on the Shimano QR with lots of bite and leverage.
    The hub is a XC Pro with grease guard. That's why I was careful to degrease before condemning anything. This is the only 7sp wheel I have built up although strictly for testing purposes I guess it doesn't matter. I'll try the shimano skewer again but it didn't work last time. I think I am getting to part of the problem: there is no powdercoat left on the dropouts. I might try coating them with some POR and seeing if that helps.

  10. #10
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    Make a fixed tensioner if that makes sense.Just a metal plate with a hole drilled for the skewer and hooked at the end to fit over the back of the dropout.Always worked for me.

  11. #11
    horn doggie
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    I have a similar problem on my Eisentraut road bike. The schwanky Ti QR on my Rolf wheels don't bite, but a steel Shimano QR does. It looks like crap that way, though, and adds, by my estimation, 13 pounds to the weight of the bike, :-)

    I'm think about slipping a steel lock washer between the Rolf QR nut and frame, something with a small hole and larger diameter to increase surface area. I betcha that would work.
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  12. #12
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    Two somewhat common things to check. One is too make sure the axles doesn't stick through the dropout and bottom out on the quick release. Sometimes the thinner drop outs can allow this to happen. You could stick a thin washer behind the lock nut to cure this. The other one is to make sure the drop outs are parallel. If they aren't, the quick release is trying to make them parallel and you just can't get them tight enough.

    Might also make sure there isn't anything cracked.

  13. #13
    Neo-Retro Forever
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    I think Jeff has it - My Race Lite and OR have thinner dropouts than some hubs consider ideal.

    I had to file about 1mm off the end of each side of a Hugi hub axle to stop the slipping.

    If it's a steel axle in your hub, an angle grinder will do great things (to the axle, not the frame), combined with a nice stout XT QR.

    Measure the protruding threaded portion of the axle compared to the thickness of the dropout - and keep in mind, you need to fit a QR speing in there as well. The axle protrucion should be AT LEAST 1-1.5mm narrower than the dropout.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by First Flight
    Two somewhat common things to check. One is too make sure the axles doesn't stick through the dropout and bottom out on the quick release. Sometimes the thinner drop outs can allow this to happen. You could stick a thin washer behind the lock nut to cure this.
    Quote Originally Posted by richieb
    I think Jeff has it - My Race Lite and OR have thinner dropouts than some hubs consider ideal.

    I had to file about 1mm off the end of each side of a Hugi hub axle to stop the slipping.

    If it's a steel axle in your hub, an angle grinder will do great things (to the axle, not the frame), combined with a nice stout XT QR.

    Measure the protruding threaded portion of the axle compared to the thickness of the dropout - and keep in mind, you need to fit a QR speing in there as well. The axle protrucion should be AT LEAST 1-1.5mm narrower than the dropout.
    Well I feel like a [email protected] right now. I just checked and that's it's exactly. Now that I think about it this all started when I adjusted the rear hub- the axle extension on the drive side changed after the adjustment because the non-drive side cup is locked in- only way I could tighten up the hub was to bring the drive side in a bit. The hub's not in the best of shape, but I don't want to break up the XC Pro group.

    a few minutes with a file and I'm riding my black Bontrager again. Should have posted this question here weeks ago...

    Thanks everyone!
    Last edited by paetersen; 01-26-2010 at 11:40 PM.

  15. #15
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    Good to see 25 years of doing this pays off occasionally

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