Ride or Retire- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 41 of 41

Thread: Ride or Retire

  1. #1
    120
    120 is offline
    Kicker of Elves
    Reputation: 120's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    427

    Ride or Retire

    Sorry if this is an irritating question but, although new here, I did spend a few days searching the forum for an answer or similar questions.

    Last weekend I decided to race for the first time in about12 years. My bike is about 15 years old but is in very good working condition. It is high end for its day with 8 spd XTR, Cook Bros Racing, Ringle', Ti BB, etc. It's a hardtail FTW-made frame with a suspension fork for which parts are still available.

    I've been considering a new bike, but I really don't see that much of a performance advantage over what I already have in the price range I can afford. Do many of you still race and train on your older MTB's or use them as your main bike?

  2. #2
    Master of the Face Plant
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,901
    Quote Originally Posted by 120
    Sorry if this is an irritating question but, although new here, I did spend a few days searching the forum for an answer or similar questions.

    Last weekend I decided to race for the first time in about12 years. My bike is about 15 years old but is in very good working condition. It is high end for its day with 8 spd XTR, Cook Bros Racing, Ringle', Ti BB, etc. It's a hardtail FTW-made frame with a suspension fork for which parts are still available.

    I've been considering a new bike, but I really don't see that much of a performance advantage over what I already have in the price range I can afford. Do many of you still race and train on your older MTB's or use them as your main bike?
    Just ride it, think of how cool it will be beating guys who are riding $5k modern bikes, assuming ofcourse you don't suck

    Seriously though, if the frame is good and you are happy with it why change? I would just update a few parts as needed. Consider if you could use better shifting, braking. Chances are you could upgrade to a newer fork and maybe lighten up a bit.

    One thing for sure, a new bike will not make you faster but it may make you want to ride more. I have seen several racers riding older frame with modern parts. You really need to post a picture and full specs.
    http://www.nbbikes.com/
    ^^^Best Bike Shop of MTBR 2008^^^

  3. #3
    120
    120 is offline
    Kicker of Elves
    Reputation: 120's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    427
    Quote Originally Posted by sandmangts
    Just ride it, think of how cool it will be beating guys who are riding $5k modern bikes, assuming ofcourse you don't suck

    Seriously though, if the frame is good and you are happy with it why change? I would just update a few parts as needed. Consider if you could use better shifting, braking. Chances are you could upgrade to a newer fork and maybe lighten up a bit.

    One thing for sure, a new bike will not make you faster but it may make you want to ride more. I have seen several racers riding older frame with modern parts. You really need to post a picture and full specs.
    Thanks! I really appreciate your input and the frame of mind you suggest!

    Seems like most of the people I meet lately have never seen a V-brake, or if they have can't believe I'm actually using them. They worked pretty good back then and still seem to work now...

    Here is my bike, it's still dirty from the race (been out of town)...but it gives an idea of what it is:




    Action Tec Framewerks frame: Easton 7005 series elite programmed tubing
    ProShock:True Temper OXII
    Action tec TI Bottom Bracket
    Action Tec Ti chainrings, bolts
    XTR front and rear
    Grip Shift X Ray 8 speed
    Answer Bars: Hyperlight I think?
    Ringle': hubs, seat post, stem, QR's
    Cook Bros E cranks
    Sun Rims, DB spokes 32h
    Flite saddle
    Ride On cables
    Avid speed dial levers, can't remember what the Avid V's are called.

  4. #4
    Mantis, Paramount, Campy
    Reputation: Shayne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,723

    Keep That!

    You're not going to find anything noticably better out on the market today.
    *** --- *** --- ***

  5. #5
    VRC Illuminati
    Reputation: Rumpfy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    17,648
    FTW made ActionTec? Ya, there isn't any new bike that'll give you any more of an advantage over that bike and its build. Keep it and keep riding it. Or send it my way.

    Now...depending on where you live and the trails you have and the type of rider you are...the rougher stuff and going especially fast, its great to have a modern full suspension bike and disc brakes.

    But for good ole' fashioned XC racing...thats a cool set up.
    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com
    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Tassie Devil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    505
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpfy
    Ya, there isn't any new bike that'll give you any more of an advantage over that bike and its build.
    On the racing side having raced a few of my early to late 90s bikes as a change from the modern ones, I'd disagree and say that a newer bike can make a big difference to where you finish in the field. Modern disc brakes alone can make a massive difference on some courses.

    Depending on how much you enjoy your racing, I'd keep the old bike for kinder races (ie smoother and dryer) and get a more modern bike in your price range which can be trashed and fixed relatively inexpensively.
    More bikes than you can point a broken spoke at...

  7. #7
    Master of the Face Plant
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,901
    Quote Originally Posted by Tassie Devil
    On the racing side having raced a few of my early to late 90s bikes as a change from the modern ones, I'd disagree and say that a newer bike can make a big difference to where you finish in the field. Modern disc brakes alone can make a massive difference on some courses.

    Depending on how much you enjoy your racing, I'd keep the old bike for kinder races (ie smoother and dryer) and get a more modern bike in your price range which can be trashed and fixed relatively inexpensively.
    I agree. It looks like the rider is riding in muddy conditions so he could benefit from using disks. However now that I see the bike and the build I would not trade it for a new bike. That is a kick ass ride. In dry conditions with the brakes setup properly you are good to go. You could lighten it up a bit by cleaning it Forget what I said earlier. I would not change anything on that bike.
    http://www.nbbikes.com/
    ^^^Best Bike Shop of MTBR 2008^^^

  8. #8
    defender of bad taste
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,600
    Very cool bike.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: tductape's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    2,401
    So what are all the frame makes FTW has had his torch on?
    Sinister, Spooky, Yeti, Action Tech, Sweetheart.......What else?
    I was not familiar with Action Tech.
    T
    Last edited by tductape; 01-19-2010 at 07:30 PM.
    Seek: Koski Trailmaster. Breezer Series 2 or 3. Cunningham Racer.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,640
    Nice forking bike! Warms my heart to see those AT frames. Had no idea FTW made them. Sweet bikes/forks.

    Anyone remember or have a Fish Lips Toxic Tuna? AT inspired out of SLC. They rode sweet.

    To the op, builders are starting to rediscover the AT fork to a small extent. Basically, if you can't get it done on that bike, you can't get it done.


    -Schmitty-

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Tassie Devil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    505
    Quote Originally Posted by sandmangts
    I agree. It looks like the rider is riding in muddy conditions so he could benefit from using disks. However now that I see the bike and the build I would not trade it for a new bike. That is a kick ass ride. In dry conditions with the brakes setup properly you are good to go. You could lighten it up a bit by cleaning it Forget what I said earlier. I would not change anything on that bike.
    I agree its definitely a nice ride, but with higher end older parts (8 speed XTR etc) getting harder to obtain a new mid range bike for all conditions to me make sense as you can walk into any bike shop and fine what you need as it wears out.

    An alternative to a budget new bike is a lightly used bike a couple of years old, and there are a stack of them out there to choose from. Maybe thats worth loking at.

    In any case I'd love to see this bike cleaned up with more photos
    More bikes than you can point a broken spoke at...

  12. #12
    Relax. I'm a pro.
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,464
    Ride it! Your bike is sweet.

    For what it's worth, my daily rider is '98 Curtlo with 8-speed drivetrain and v-brakes. The only reason that I'm about to switch to 9-speed is that my shifters are worn out. I'm sure that there are folks on this forum who ride bikes much older than that.

  13. #13
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,160
    Awesome bike! Keep it. While I'd agree discs are great, somehow the worlds best managed to get through many a race without them, so I think you would too. You won't win or lose based on the brakes you have. It's like that old guy nobody knows who shows up at the trail head on a Huffy, and schools the whole group

    On a side note, the one upgrade that could very well keep you in the running at a race is going tubeless. A Stans kit is like $60, and will allow for lower pressures for smoother faster rolling, and punctures will no longer require any thought from you to fix themselves...

    Best of all? You can use your existing tires, and wheels, so it's a super stealth upgrade that's cheap (several of my VRCesque bikes are converted, I challenge any naysayers to pick which ones)! Also drops weight at the outer edge of the rotating mass, which is the best place for it to get dropped!

    Have fun with that, and we want cleaned up pics too please!
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  14. #14
    Single Speed Junkie
    Reputation: crux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,113
    Keep on riding.

    As for the V vs disc, just get your self a set of Avid Ultimates and be done with it. While Avid makes / made some of the better V brakes out there (perhaps the most popular was the Single Digit Mags since discontinued) the Single Digit Ultimate was on par with many of the disc brakes IMHO when used paired witht the Ultimate lever.

    Honestly all that bike needs is a quick clean and your good.

  15. #15
    120
    120 is offline
    Kicker of Elves
    Reputation: 120's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    427
    Thanks everyone, that's all good news and advice and I really do appreciate it...I've been looking at the tubeless thing-can I do the ghetto version? I'll search around for a thread or web page.

    About that mud, it rains here about twice a year and it happened this time about three days before this event. Usually mud isn't an issue for me, luckily.

    I'll shoot a couple more pics when I get a chance to clean it.

    Thanks again!

  16. #16
    Certified Bike Junkie
    Reputation: muddybuddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,747
    Quote Originally Posted by Aemmer
    So what are all the frame makes FTW has had his torch on?
    Sinister, Spooky, Yeti, Action Tech, Sweetheart.......What else?
    I was not familiar with Action Tech.
    T
    He built the front end for the Deans with the AMP rear ends when his shop was still in Arizona.
    Need: McMahon brake for roller cam mounts, Mountain Goat fork.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    2
    nice ride! iirc FTW also made the mongoose amplifier2 (after amp research made the original- my bike).

  18. #18
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,160
    Quote Originally Posted by 120
    I've been looking at the tubeless thing-can I do the ghetto version?

    I saw a good one, which my wife is riding successfully right now. BMX sized 20" presta valve tube, stretch onto rim, slice it up the middle and lay the flaps around the outside of the rim. Mount tire, goo, inflate, set. Then it's just the time with a pair of sharp scissors (dull nose in towards tire ) trimming off the side flaps....
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: tductape's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    2,401
    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    I saw a good one, which my wife is riding successfully right now. BMX sized 20" presta valve tube, stretch onto rim, slice it up the middle and lay the flaps around the outside of the rim. Mount tire, goo, inflate, set. Then it's just the time with a pair of sharp scissors (dull nose in towards tire ) trimming off the side flaps....
    Being a fairly agressive rider and a 225 lb lard ass that's rarely complemented on my finess while picking a line, I would not trust this setup on a hardtail. Probably too old fashioned but I am the master of snakebites, and this setup just seems like an invitation to fail. I try to look at things with an open mind but need to see someone else do this for a while first. If you blow the tire off the rim while riding, how difficult is it to fix on the trail? I try to accept change, but not sure here.
    Seek: Koski Trailmaster. Breezer Series 2 or 3. Cunningham Racer.

  20. #20
    I'm just messing with you
    Reputation: wv_bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    5,423
    Quote Originally Posted by Aemmer
    If you blow the tire off the rim while riding, how difficult is it to fix on the trail?
    It's easy to fix, you whip out your spare tube and stuff it in the tire.

    There's a write up in a recent Mountain Bike magazine - the cover screams "best $50 upgrade", then the article goes into depth describing $1000+ wheel sets. When it gets to talking about the ghetto upgrade, the article includes the disclaimer "Warning: it might kill you".

    Hyperbole isn't dead, it's alive and thriving in that rag.
    Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised

  21. #21
    I'm just messing with you
    Reputation: wv_bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    5,423
    I've got an old MBA with an article "We ride Russ Robinson's Personal Action-Tec" - should I scan and post it? 5 pages and the images will be big.
    Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised

  22. #22
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,160
    Quote Originally Posted by Aemmer
    I am the master of snakebites,
    Consider for a moment, the cause of those snakebites, beyond your girth and finesse level

    Tubes that let the air out of newly made, nicely paired, holes.

    Run a beefier sidewall tire. Something super thin and lightweight should be approached as such. All tires feel better sans tube anyway....

    I've been tubeless one way or another for close to 10 years. After UST for the first year, I've been some version of non standard tubeless ever since.
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  23. #23
    Single Speed Junkie
    Reputation: crux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,113
    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    Consider for a moment, the cause of those snakebites, beyond your girth and finesse level
    Thats nearly the MTB equivalent of the your mama so ____ jokes.

    I was the master at getting schooled by those....

  24. #24
    I'm just messing with you
    Reputation: wv_bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    5,423
    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    Consider for a moment, the cause of those snakebites, beyond your girth and finesse level
    As a lardass who rarely if ever pinch flats, I'll take that as a compliment.
    Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: tductape's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    2,401
    "[Originally Posted by Aemmer
    I am the master of snakebites,


    Consider for a moment, the cause of those snakebites, beyond your girth and finesse level"

    I prefer big boned please....Remember this is the kinder more gentle VRC.......
    Seek: Koski Trailmaster. Breezer Series 2 or 3. Cunningham Racer.

  26. #26
    120
    120 is offline
    Kicker of Elves
    Reputation: 120's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    427
    Quote Originally Posted by wv_bob
    I've got an old MBA with an article "We ride Russ Robinson's Personal Action-Tec" - should I scan and post it? 5 pages and the images will be big.
    Oh Man! I'd love to see that...I lost my copy when we moved and my wife threw out all my magazines.

  27. #27
    I'm just messing with you
    Reputation: wv_bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    5,423
    I warned you - they're big. Page 2 included because it wouldn't be MBA without it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ride or Retire-actiontec-1.jpg  

    Ride or Retire-actiontec-2.jpg  

    Ride or Retire-actiontec-3.jpg  

    Ride or Retire-actiontec-4.jpg  

    Ride or Retire-actiontec-5.jpg  

    Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,640
    I've got an article too that Russ sent me when I built one of his forks.. talks about his fork vs CDale. Same one?

    He got his start up money via game show winnings!

    -Schmitty-

  29. #29
    120
    120 is offline
    Kicker of Elves
    Reputation: 120's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    427
    Maybe I should have called this thread Action-Tec! Thanks so much for posting that article!!!

    I thought I had it cleaned up until I saw the pics, oops missed a few spots...






  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    37
    That is definitely a keeper!

    I am riding an older Catamount mountain bike and I too get questions all the time. If it was good enough for the same trails 12 years ago, no reason it can't be today.

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation: yo-Nate-y's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    2,734
    Sweet bike, and definitely still raceable. Keep an eye on the flanges of those Ringle hubs though!
    Somec is like the digital Zunow
    And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5h3y0a9AU

  32. #32
    Relax. I'm a pro.
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,464
    I remember reading that article in my high-school photography class, back in the day. Good times.

  33. #33
    Relax. I'm a pro.
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,464
    The girl who sat next to me asked me to take her mountainbiking at the end of that school year. Ahh, memories.

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: chefmiguel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,512
    Nice bike, keep riding it.

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Tassie Devil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    505
    Quote Originally Posted by Aemmer
    So what are all the frame makes FTW has had his torch on?
    Sinister, Spooky, Yeti, Action Tech, Sweetheart.......What else?
    I was not familiar with Action Tech.
    T
    The 95 Turner FTF (aka Burner) frames were FTW made apparently.
    More bikes than you can point a broken spoke at...

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,640
    There's another good article out there from MBA.. can't find mine.

    I'd do some drivetrain updates (shifters), maybe crank/bb/pedals, and get after it. Of course keep the old stuff.


    -Schmitty-

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation: fat-tony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    274
    Train harder so that next race you are faster in the flats and on uphills, making up more time than anything you lose if disk brakes do make a difference.

    Ride it like you stole it!
    blah, blah, blah..........

    www.fatcogs.com

  38. #38
    hello pot? this is kettle
    Reputation: paetersen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    257
    Quote Originally Posted by Tassie Devil
    On the racing side having raced a few of my early to late 90s bikes as a change from the modern ones, I'd disagree and say that a newer bike can make a big difference to where you finish in the field. Modern disc brakes alone can make a massive difference on some courses.

    Depending on how much you enjoy your racing, I'd keep the old bike for kinder races (ie smoother and dryer) and get a more modern bike in your price range which can be trashed and fixed relatively inexpensively.
    I just got back into racing myself after nearly 15 years. I just finished one of the muddiest and wettest seasons in anyone's memory, here in the northeast. Out of 16 races I ran only 5 were not in the rain or didn't have epic mud. I finished in the top 5 13 times, so something is working and it's not all me.

    I'm running a fairly similar setup to you- 15 year old Bontrager with a mix of XC Pro and XTR drivetrain. Avid single digit 7 brakes with shimano levers. Ran most of the season rigid but threw the old mag 21 back on the front for the last few races. King hubs and 'rager valiant rims. Race Face Dues XC cranks & BB.

    The courses I ran ranged from barely any hills and dry to up-and-down a ski mountain in torrential rain. From fast and smooth to so technical I was thought I was on a trials course.

    Nearly every course with significant mud and rain the disc brake guys were complaining of problems. I only wanted more brakes once this season, towards the end of the season when my pads were beat (should have replaced them but thought I could squeeze out the rest of the season). One race was so bad nearly everyone running disc brakes lost braking all together- so much mud and water that their pads were abraded away after 1 lap- many people crashed and I had one guy crash into the back of me as I calmly, with fully functioning brakes, picked my way through a technical downhill. He thanked me for stopping him!

    Good v-brakes: as good or better in the long run than discs, lighter too.

    I got 2 flats all season, both times I was running in the top 3 and finished 10th. I was so old skool I still had a pump. Now I use CO2 and practiced fast changes. I am a lightweight rider though- I run thin racing tubes and thin low TPI tires. I get away with it, mostly.

    If you can get it reliable go tubeless.

    If you a really serious about racing and winning then yes- get a modern full suspension mountain bike. Bring both bikes and pre-ride every course. Decide which bike to use. I lost the win at 3 races because I didn't have full suspension- lost by seconds, watching the guy behind me sit down and pedal past me on a rough or very rooty section that I had to stay out of the saddle for and couldn't efficiently pedal through. I am sitting here trying to decide whether to drop $5-8,000 on a dedicated modern full sus race rig. I have ridden and talked with some pros who tell me it's necessary, and some pros who tell me don't bother. Will I be faster on it? In some situations, absolutely. But in the end it might come down to your riding style- I spend a lot of time out of the saddle. I run a 12-28 rear cassette and barely shift. A number of serious racers I talk to tell me to get it over with and race single speed.

    So race a few more races. Decide what you like the best. I really enjoy running older machinery, the way it rides, the way it performs. It's what I like, it's what I'm used to. I think I'll give up the win at a few races for that.

  39. #39
    Relax. I'm a pro.
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,464
    Great post, paetersen.

  40. #40
    Stokeless Asshat
    Reputation: jeff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,360
    X2. That Bonty would make a nice SS.
    Zip ties? Not on my bike!

    Want:
    650B rims or wheel set. 80's vintage 32 or 36 x 135mm

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,640

    Here's that article...

    OP, maybe you could edit your title and add 'Action-Tec' for search purposes.

    -Schmitty-

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.