Raleigh "The Edge" - Page 3- Mtbr.com
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 401 to 564 of 564
  1. #401
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    149
    Duh, Good point , Can't rotate 90 degrees on a five bolt crank, If I'd thought about that for a second I would have realized that, Oh well, never said I was very smart, but I could get it closer to what it should be just to see if it makes a differance.

  2. #402
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    Scott, that's a great idea, but it would take me so long to make them with my hand drill and file that I['d have to charge more than a coffee for them, and I'm over caffeinated the way things are right now... I'd encourage you to try the Biopace rings rotated as close as you can get them to "right"- anxious to hear your opinion! Try them on a very steep hill that you can just climb with normal rings... Try them both ways!

  3. #403
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    149
    So Bob, Whats up? How you got your bike setup these days? I went ahead and rotated the biopace two bolt holes and by golly the chainring is narrowest now when the crankarms are at 6:00 and 12:00, and thats on a five bolt crank, how do you like that?Hope you and your family didn't get pounded by the weather to bad..

  4. #404
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274
    So many questions...
    So, rotating by 2 holes...hmmm. that's 144 degrees.
    That means they may not be phased so smallest is at TDC.
    Did it actually help at all or just feel weird?
    I don't know much about 'rithmatic or about BioPace chainrings. I think it's like 29ers and just marketing hoopla...
    Were you drinking when you rotated them? Just kidding... (but really were you?)
    Maybe J.O. has an explanation.
    What happens is you flip it inside out?

    So, my junky bikes.
    Edge - added rear canti mounts.. in for repaint and perhaps a few other little mods. It won't be Pink.

    C'Dale beast- converted from singlespeed back to 7speed.

    C'Dale 1991 - had single speed setup working on modified 16" chainstays (notorious axle bender) until chain broke. This bike has not been operational since 1995.

    1972 Rayleigh Record - in process conversion to 27" singlespeed cyclocross bike sort of....more like a Rat-Rod project. You know, when you ride up to a 36 inch log, you jump off the bike, throw the bike over the log and then climb over the log, pick up the bike and ride on...
    Back in the seventies this was the way we road off-road before those people in Marin Co., CA took credit for everything....

    198? RoyceUnion MTB "water pipe" frame - in process kinda like a StrangeBike. Looking for parts...(I know enough not to ask here). Needs paint. Won't be pink.

    'Nuff said - Now Ride!
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  5. #405
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    Guys, quit thinking about weird sprockets and check this out, stat:

    Riding the skinnies at Dan Funke’s back yard MTB playground « Mountain Bike Geezer

  6. #406
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    421
    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    Guys, quit thinking about weird sprockets and check this out, stat:

    Riding the skinnies at Dan Funke’s back yard MTB playground « Mountain Bike Geezer
    thats some cool stuff on that site....I'll be at Rays all weekend playing on the skinnies...cant wait!

  7. #407
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    149
    Hey Bob, WOW, Now that's an update, I'd post a picture if I knew how but I'm telling you the biopace is narrowest now when the crank arms are vertical, Doesn't really matter cause I took the crankarms off and switched them out with deore's and put my old 30 tooth round ring back on, that's quite a collection of bikes you've got there..

  8. #408
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    149
    Nice backyard playground, I'd like to get me one of those, Then I could really hurt myself.. Oh Guys There is a real clean looking almost orginal raleigh edge on ebay right now and it's a real steal at ONLY 6,999.99 plus 150.00 shipping, I want some of what there smoking...

  9. #409
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    Scott, save even more- Buy 2!!!!

    I wonder if that price was in Iranian Rials? Or Mohican Kroner?

  10. #410
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    149
    Maybe thats in monopoly money, Nice looking edge, looks to be in real good shape, But get real with that price!!!

  11. #411
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274
    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    Maybe thats in monopoly money, Nice looking edge, looks to be in real good shape, But get real with that price!!!
    Ya know, it's even got Biopace chainrings! Figure that even though not stock!
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  12. #412
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274
    Honest to God, I only paid $49.95 for mlne! (No insult intended to Mr. Olson)
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  13. #413
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    421
    that kook has soo many nice bikes like that for wayyy too much $$...Pisses me off when I see somethign I really want/need and it's from them...I wont purchase anything form that store just because of what them ads do to the general pricing (all those folks that use ebay searches to determine what something is worth)...freekin scammers....bikes are for riding....and riding..and riding.

  14. #414
    mtbr member
    Reputation: snydercj7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    143
    The funny thing about his site?

    The name of his store, Budget bicycle center.

    Or maybe it's only funny because that is way out of my budget.
    I use to be lean & mean... Now I'm just an a$$hole!

  15. #415
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    149
    To bad on the price it would be just what david9999999 is looking for, then we could have another new member to our club...

  16. #416
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    149
    Bob, How did you get your edge for only $50.00? You lucky dog...

  17. #417
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    421
    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    To bad on the price it would be just what david9999999 is looking for, then we could have another new member to our club...
    you can add me to that list also...I got my eyes peeled for one...I saw a few some years ago but wasnt interested untill I read this thread and looked into them a bit....definately my stytle of riding, I'm not into hopping around, but I love super techhy stuff that gives a great feeling of accomplisment when cleaned....and I dig VRC bikes!

  18. #418
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    I would like to pick up another too. My ex-wife has mine; long story.

  19. #419
    mtbr member
    Reputation: snydercj7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    143
    Talk about hitting a guy where it counts!
    I use to be lean & mean... Now I'm just an a$$hole!

  20. #420
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274
    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    Guys, quit thinking about weird sprockets and check this out, stat:
    I thinks its the acid rain, man!!
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  21. #421
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    149
    Merry christmas everybody !!!

  22. #422
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    And happy new year with shocking pink/salmon bows on!

  23. #423
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  24. #424
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    I am a man of many talents and simultaneous locations. I was also the prime minister of Australia back in the day. But I STILL have trouble adjusting front derallers!

  25. #425
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274

    Re: Raleigh "The Edge"

    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    ....... But I STILL have trouble adjusting front derallers!
    I have the same problem so I just remove them!!!!
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  26. #426
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274

    Re: Raleigh "The Edge"

    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    Merry christmas everybody !!!
    Hey Scott, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  27. #427
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274

    Re: Raleigh "The Edge"

    So Strangebike13,
    In your humble opinion, what's all the hype over real wide handlebars, i.e.,>30"?
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  28. #428
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    149
    Hey Guys, I have a answer aluminilite bar on my one edge and I really like,I used to run a kona dh bar but I like the answer more, little more rise ,wider and less sweep. My question do any of you know what to use to keep your grips from slipping on your bars? something that actually works,
    Quote Originally Posted by abaris View Post
    So Strangebike13,
    In your humble opinion, what's all the hype over real wide handlebars, i.e.,>30"?

  29. #429
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274

    Re: Raleigh "The Edge"

    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    My question do any of you know what to use to keep your grips from slipping on your bars? something that actually works,

    Back in the day it was hairspray....some worked, some didn't !
    Maybe snydercj7 knows best....
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  30. #430
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    149
    Quote Originally Posted by abaris View Post
    Back in the day it was hairspray....some worked, some didn't !
    Maybe snydercj7 knows best....
    That's what I used to use and like you said some worked some didn't, any chance you remember which ones worked? Thanks Bob

  31. #431
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274

    Re: Raleigh "The Edge"

    I never used hair spray.
    I know use lock-on grips or stay out of the rain.
    3M makes some spray adhesive for automobile emblem and such. Give it a try.
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  32. #432
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    149

    grip slip

    Quote Originally Posted by abaris View Post
    I never used hair spray.
    I know use lock-on grips or stay out of the rain.
    3M makes some spray adhesive for automobile emblem and such. Give it a try.
    Hey John, You out there? or any of you others know of any certain brands of hairspray that works for non slip grips? Thanks

  33. #433
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bulgie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    Hey John, You out there? or any of you others know of any certain brands of hairspray that works for non slip grips? Thanks
    AFAIK all brands of hairspray are water-soluble. (How else could you ever shampoo it out of your hair?). I never found a hairspray brand that would continue to stick in very wet conditions. I'm from the Pacific Northwest. I think hairspray for grips must be a SoCal or Arizona thing.

    Use 3m FasTack, as long as you don't want to ever be able to remove it!

    Any glue that needs to be installed wet (so the grips slide on) will take a long time to set up. They harden by off-gassing, which is hard to do through a rubber grip. So give it time to set up before riding, like a day.

  34. #434
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    149
    Quote Originally Posted by bulgie View Post
    AFAIK all brands of hairspray are water-soluble. (How else could you ever shampoo it out of your hair?). I never found a hairspray brand that would continue to stick in very wet conditions. I'm from the Pacific Northwest. I think hairspray for grips must be a SoCal or Arizona thing.

    Use 3m FasTack, as long as you don't want to ever be able to remove it!

    Any glue that needs to be installed wet (so the grips slide on) will take a long time to set up. They harden by off-gassing, which is hard to do through a rubber grip. So give it time to set up before riding, like a day.
    Hey Guys, I got a tube of Loctite stik"n seal outdoor adhesive,Let them set for a couple days, Perfect!! Thanks for the advice, So Bob Whats up? How you running your edge now?

  35. #435
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    74
    mix up some dish soap in some water and put a thin layer of that on your bar ends, you don't need much.
    All vintage all the time. Nothing like a nice chromo frame with some properly adjusted cantilevers.

  36. #436
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    149
    Quote Originally Posted by jaxes88 View Post
    mix up some dish soap in some water and put a thin layer of that on your bar ends, you don't need much.
    Hey Guys, Where'd everybody go? What happened to our once proud and mighty forum?

  37. #437
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    358
    I'm still lurking...

  38. #438
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    149
    Quote Originally Posted by Sven Trials View Post
    I'm still lurking...
    Okay, So now there is another edge on ebay and they want $4,995 for it, Whats wrong with these people?Bob, John you guys still out there? Sven Trials and I are awfully lonely out here on this forum all by ourselves. Whats new with everybody?

  39. #439
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274

    Re: Raleigh "The Edge"

    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    Okay, So now there is another edge on ebay and they want $4,995 for it, Whats wrong with these people?Bob, John you guys still out there? Sven Trials and I are awfully lonely out here on this forum all by ourselves. Whats new with everybody?
    What can I say....
    You got the $$, buy it!
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  40. #440
    mtbr member
    Reputation: smilinsteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    8,605
    18 pages on an old middle of the road Raliegh, wow!
    My first mountain bike was a 1988 Raliegh Chill. Biopace, Deore group, chainstay U brake, 6 speed thumb shifters, Technium frame, white with turquoise lettering. The top tube was extremely short (I think 20" on my medium), and I had a toe clip overlap problem. Also the chainstays were very long at 17.5." It changed my life though

  41. #441
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    Sorry, guys, I stopped getting notices of new messages in, like, February. Very wide handlebars are great for bikes with too much trail, and very shallow head angles, like downhill bikes and extreme freeride bikes. They have horrible wheel flop at low speeds on level ground (which they aren't designed for). The wide bars help combat flop and also give you leverage when you land after Going Big. I think you can get TOO wide on a technical or XC bike. You hit stuff. Your hands hurt.

  42. #442
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    On Grips: Water is your enemy. Riding in wet vegetation causes water to wick under the grips and loosen them. Soon you need dental work. I have had the best luck with black spray paint. Why black? Most grips and many bars are black. Whatever.

    The spray enamel (don't know if it matters) lubricates the grip to facilitate installation, keeps it stuck to the bar for a long time, and is not impossible to remove with air pressure if you need to change grips or get to inboard equipment like shifters or brake levers.

    That said... I use clamp-on grips. They rule.

  43. #443
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    149
    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    On Grips: Water is your enemy. Riding in wet vegetation causes water to wick under the grips and loosen them. Soon you need dental work. I have had the best luck with black spray paint. Why black? Most grips and many bars are black. Whatever.

    The spray enamel (don't know if it matters) lubricates the grip to facilitate installation, keeps it stuck to the bar for a long time, and is not impossible to remove with air pressure if you need to change grips or get to inboard equipment like shifters or brake levers.

    That said... I use clamp-on grips. They rule.
    Hey John, Good to here from you my friend, How are you doing? What kind of riding do you do mostly these days, What kind of bikes over the years have stood out to you as being good technical trail bikes? In other words mountain trials bikes? It's really good to here from you and to have you on this forum.

  44. #444
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    992
    Hey fellow Edge fans. I brushed the dust off of my edge (literally) and have been taking it for a few rides lately. It was originally purchased back in 87/88 time frame new by me for my wife. It ended-up with high-rise bars and a cushy womens saddle to help coax my wife into riding it, but I think she may have ridden it 3 or 4 times since it was purchased. I have had it out a few times, but not many. After all these years I have claimed the bike back, put a trailworthy saddle on it and have started putting a few miles on it. Here is a shot of the bike before I slapped a set of SPD's on it.



    This bike is actually pretty well-suited to the tight rooted and rocky single-track in Missouri. All of the bikes traits have been flooding back to me. Turns on a dime with steering precision that really lets you thread through and over rock gardens and roots. Climbs really nicely,but is a little spooky on the steep downhills and I was reminded today that even though its a heavy little chunk of a bike, it is light in the rear and reminds of the times I have been over the bars on this bike. I don't think my wife ever knew about those wrecks on "her" bike. The straight cut gears don't shift all that smoothly and it tends to make quite a bit of racket when shifting. Overall though I am impressed with how well the bike still rides and handles. Its definitely not a fast bike, but it is capable and most importantly its a fun bike to ride. I enjoy riding it the most when I am solo on my own clock since thats when the slower pace of the 24" rear wheel is less noticeable. Having said that though I was trailing a buddy of mine last week on his rigid Niner MCR and although I was losing ground I wasn't too far off the pace.

    Todays ride was really a blast and thought some of you edge-heads might like to see a pic of one in the wild.


  45. #445
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    149
    Quote Originally Posted by N10S View Post
    Hey fellow Edge fans. I brushed the dust off of my edge (literally) and have been taking it for a few rides lately. It was originally purchased back in 87/88 time frame new by me for my wife. It ended-up with high-rise bars and a cushy womens saddle to help coax my wife into riding it, but I think she may have ridden it 3 or 4 times since it was purchased. I have had it out a few times, but not many. After all these years I have claimed the bike back, put a trailworthy saddle on it and have started putting a few miles on it. Here is a shot of the bike before I slapped a set of SPD's on it.



    This bike is actually pretty well-suited to the tight rooted and rocky single-track in Missouri. All of the bikes traits have been flooding back to me. Turns on a dime with steering precision that really lets you thread through and over rock gardens and roots. Climbs really nicely,but is a little spooky on the steep downhills and I was reminded today that even though its a heavy little chunk of a bike, it is light in the rear and reminds of the times I have been over the bars on this bike. I don't think my wife ever knew about those wrecks on "her" bike. The straight cut gears don't shift all that smoothly and it tends to make quite a bit of racket when shifting. Overall though I am impressed with how well the bike still rides and handles. Its definitely not a fast bike, but it is capable and most importantly its a fun bike to ride. I enjoy riding it the most when I am solo on my own clock since thats when the slower pace of the 24" rear wheel is less noticeable. Having said that though I was trailing a buddy of mine last week on his rigid Niner MCR and although I was losing ground I wasn't too far off the pace.

    Todays ride was really a blast and thought some of you edge-heads might like to see a pic of one in the wild.

    Hey N10S,Good looking Edge,If you don't mind really going not fast take off the two large chainrings just run the granny chainring, take off the front derailleur and thumb shifter, shorten the chain and you'll have tons of ground clearance for riding that wicked looking terrain in your one picture, either way nice Edge.

  46. #446
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    992
    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    Hey N10S,Good looking Edge,If you don't mind really going not fast take off the two large chainrings just run the granny chainring, take off the front derailleur and thumb shifter, shorten the chain and you'll have tons of ground clearance for riding that wicked looking terrain in your one picture, either way nice Edge.
    At the risk of sounding like a weight weenie, I have been thinking about how much more fun the bike would be if it shed some weight. I have an old-school forged RaceFace LP crankset equipped with a 32T Salsa ring(also have a 34T as well), a UN72 BB, and an n-gear jump-stop that are all sitting in my parts bin waiting to be used. That factory nut-style BB and crankset are boat anchors for sure and I bet changing cranks and BB and dropping the FD and shifter I would lose over a pound of weight. I typically run my bikes either 1x or SS so this would be a logical thing for me to do. A ti handlebar to replace the heavy steel riser bars would also provide a more resilient ride, and then tossing the front derailleur and shifter, the rear derailleur guard and stock tires in a box in favor of newer lighter rubber would be the last thing I would do. The cransket and BB is easy since I already have the items available.

  47. #447
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274

    Re: Raleigh "The Edge"

    That's what a true edge-head would do....its an old trials bike...don't think it can do much more. Of coarse, after all of that you'll want to find some REAL brakes....etc.....
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  48. #448
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    992
    Quote Originally Posted by abaris View Post
    That's what a true edge-head would do....its an old trials bike...don't think it can do much more. Of coarse, after all of that you'll want to find some REAL brakes....etc.....
    Yeah brakes are a little tough with the chainstay brake equipped bike.I still have the orginal XC roller-cam brakes in a box and had replaced those in the early 90's with a Deore U-Brake with a billet aluminum Brodie brake booster.That rear brake is actually pretty effective considering the OE pads. Not sure you could get a set of Magura's down there or if you could would really want a hydro line exposed in an area like that anyway. Up front there are plenty of options.

  49. #449
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    I like the trails! They look fun.

  50. #450
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    992
    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    I like the trails! They look fun.
    They are fun! Missouri has some decent singletrack trails, and if you are ever in the St.Louis area there are plenty of riding places like that. Some fast and smooth and other trails more technical, rooted and rocky.There is plenty of climbing and descending, but not like you would find out west. That particular trail where I took that pic is part of the Lost Valley trail network which is west of St.Louis. I had not ridden there for at least 6-8 month and was surprised to find two new sections of singletrack. The Edge was the perfect bike for doing some low-speed exploring. Most of the trails around here are loops of anywhere from 4 -24 miles in length and the shorter loops in particular are perfect for rigid bikes like the Edge.

  51. #451
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    149
    Quote Originally Posted by N10S View Post
    They are fun! Missouri has some decent singletrack trails, and if you are ever in the St.Louis area there are plenty of riding places like that. Some fast and smooth and other trails more technical, rooted and rocky.There is plenty of climbing and descending, but not like you would find out west. That particular trail where I took that pic is part of the Lost Valley trail network which is west of St.Louis. I had not ridden there for at least 6-8 month and was surprised to find two new sections of singletrack. The Edge was the perfect bike for doing some low-speed exploring. Most of the trails around here are loops of anywhere from 4 -24 miles in length and the shorter loops in particular are perfect for rigid bikes like the Edge.
    So try putting some kool stop pads on your back brake, that and the brake brace should give you a pretty decent back brake, As for the rest it depends on how fast you don't want to go.

  52. #452
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    106
    Quote Originally Posted by veloreality View Post
    that gusset alone makes it worth having. totally awesome bikes.
    Say that again! Love vintage rides, especially if folks are still riding them! Keep it up Mate!

  53. #453
    mtbr member
    Reputation: YakimaDeathYaks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    228
    Just curious if anybody had a number stamped into the gusset on there
    '87 edges, I have a "02" stamped in the right drive side?
    84 Ritcher Super Comp
    85 Salsa Scoboni
    85 Ritchey Timber Comp
    88 Ritchey Super Comp

  54. #454
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274

    Re: Raleigh "The Edge"

    Quote Originally Posted by YakimaDeathYaks View Post
    Just curious if anybody had a number stamped into the gusset on there
    '87 edges, I have a "02" stamped in the right drive side?
    Yesserybob, mine is an '87 and has the same marking/stamping on the right gusset.
    Incredible!
    How about Olsen, does his have that also!?!?
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  55. #455
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    I have my Edge back in my basement now. I'll go look... (time passes) Mine has "02" stamped into the right gusset. It is one of the earliest ones, because that's how they paid me- 2 bikes.

  56. #456
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274
    Do you still need the front canti's?
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  57. #457
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    No, thank you, Bob, I found some.

  58. #458
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    149
    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    No, thank you, Bob, I found some.
    I need a rear wheel assembly for one of my edge's, Can any of you guy's help me out?

  59. #459
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    That's going to be a tough one if you want to match rims... I"ll keep my eyes open for one though!

  60. #460
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    149
    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    That's going to be a tough one if you want to match rims... I"ll keep my eyes open for one though!
    Thanks John, I've got cracks in my rim and in this day and age of cheaper to just replace then fix I thought I'd try to find another wheel, Funny because my other Edge did the same thing and I had a Sun Rhino Lite rim laced up to my stock wheel, problem solved but like I said these days it would probably cost more to have that done to this bike then to just get another wheel, this weekend I'm going to check some of the local bike shops, Thanks Again...

  61. #461
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    Good luck, Scott!

  62. #462
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274
    Good luck! Now go to warp drive, Scotty!
    Seriously, I have an old 24" wheel that would need an axle and bearings. The shipping would be more than just going to a LBS.
    Also, some NOS 24X2.5 arrow racing tires on ebay!
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  63. #463
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    149
    Thanks Bob, I'm going to have a LBS get me a sun rhyno lite rim and lace it to my rear wheel, $80.00 Thanks for help though, So what's going on with your bike these day's...

  64. #464
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274
    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    Thanks Bob, I'm going to have a LBS get me a sun rhyno lite rim and lace it to my rear wheel, $80.00 Thanks for help though, So what's going on with your bike these day's...
    Good deal Scott! Support your local bike shops!!

    My Edge is in for a few fixes. Since I shortened the chainstays, I had decided to paint the Edge. As it is a modfied Edge, it seems the color shouldn't be that p()$$y pink any more. Maybe RED!!

    Also, I have been dreaming of the ultimate Buffalo Bike: a 29+/19, keeping in the spirit of rolling trials and extreme technical trail riding (and therefore gears) with respect to the environment and others on the trail (no shredding-All Mountain-suspension $hit).

    Maybe StrangeBike13 might chime in if he thinks this might be a fun project.

    I've got the Edge frame already shortened; I've got a 29er front fork with a 1" steerer;I've got a 19" wheel with a Maxxis 2.5" Creepy Crawler....All I really need is a 29+ wheel and tire and tube....

    Time to call Surly....

    What do you think???
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  65. #465
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    149
    Quote Originally Posted by abaris View Post
    Good deal Scott! Support your local bike shops!!

    My Edge is in for a few fixes. Since I shortened the chainstays, I had decided to paint the Edge. As it is a modfied Edge, it seems the color shouldn't be that p()$$y pink any more. Maybe RED!!

    Also, I have been dreaming of the ultimate Buffalo Bike: a 29+/19, keeping in the spirit of rolling trials and extreme technical trail riding (and therefore gears) with respect to the environment and others on the trail (no shredding-All Mountain-suspension $hit).

    Maybe StrangeBike13 might chime in if he thinks this might be a fun project.

    I've got the Edge frame already shortened; I've got a 29er front fork with a 1" steerer;I've got a 19" wheel with a Maxxis 2.5" Creepy Crawler....All I really need is a 29+ wheel and tire and tube....

    Time to call Surly....

    What do you think???
    That sounds strange alright. Did you not like your Edge when you were running a 24 inch front wheel on it? When you first mentioned that I liked that idea, A little more top tube clearance and you'd still have the same amount of ground clearance as an ibis mountain trials... It would be nice if the Edge had been offered in two sizes, an Edge with say a two inch smaller frame size would be awesome...

  66. #466
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274
    The 24/24 configuration had a steeeeeep head angle...like 78 degrees. It was twitchy but trialsey ... A 29er front end seems to throw the head angle to the other extreme...like 64 degrees. Not ideal for going up hill. But, I was only dreaming.

    In reality, the 26/20 seem to handle the best.
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  67. #467
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    149
    Quote Originally Posted by abaris View Post
    The 24/24 configuration had a steeeeeep head angle...like 78 degrees. It was twitchy but trialsey ... A 29er front end seems to throw the head angle to the other extreme...like 64 degrees. Not ideal for going up hill. But, I was only dreaming.

    In reality, the 26/20 seem to handle the best.
    A while back I had the back wheel off from one of my Edge's and it was hanging on the wall and I saw one of my one son's 20 inch bmx back wheels and just put it on the back of my bike just to see, His axle is bigger, but leaning against the wall kept it in place and I have to admit it looked kinda cool, Strange but cool in an odd sort of way plus you could run maxxis cpeepy crawlers for a back tire except a chain tensioner would be just about dragging on the ground, looked kind of cool none the less. I wonder how a small sized frame 29/26 with just the granny chainring up front would be like...

  68. #468
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    Bob, where on earth did you find a 29" fork with a 1" steerer?!?

  69. #469
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  70. #470
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274
    But really, it would slack the head angle out to ~64 degrees; and the trail would be a staggering 139mm with wheel flop at a whopping 55mm!!!!!
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  71. #471
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    I built an adjustable bike once for the US Olympic team. It was far more rideable at a 90 degree head angle with negative trail than it was with a 60 degree head angle and lots of trail... At some point, you give up and just build a one-off frame to suit weird wheel combos.

  72. #472
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274
    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    ... At some point, you give up and just build a one-off frame to suit weird wheel combos.
    SO, if a 29/20 Bison bike was to have any utility, it would be climbing/rolling off logs/obstacles and the 20" rear just lets you put more weight back off the rear so ya don't do an instant endo into a blackberry bush where that bear is...this would have to be a situation where you can not hop like all the trials guys and gals do nowadays...maybe not enough room to do so, can't hop due to some military wound from Afghanistan, etc.....
    So your saying, that head angle modifications would be in order such as extending the top tube??
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  73. #473
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    Actually, a good hopper should be able to hop around on the 20" back wheel just fine. When I did my 26/20 Bison in the 80's, it was because you could get sticky Euro 20" trials tires, and I wanted a bike for Cap Sante in Anacortes, which has lovely big rock faces that are frequently damp and a bit slippery. That's all rubber compound, and back then only 20" trials tires had good rubber. The big wheel in front was for descending the rock faces. I don't hop, so it was good for me. My next bike had 20/20 wheels, and it was better, you just had to be awake when you got to the bottom of the rock slabs...

  74. #474
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274
    Is that trail still there? Do you still ride it?

    Sent from infinity...
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  75. #475
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252

    Cap Sante

    It is still there, and I ain't riding ANYTHING right now (bad back), but we still ride it. It rocks, literally! Some of the best rolling trials ever.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Raleigh "The Edge"-anacortes.jpg  

    Raleigh "The Edge"-capsante.jpg  

    Raleigh "The Edge"-capsantetanker.jpg  


  76. #476
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274
    WOW!
    Is the back fixable?

    Sent with Tapatalk from infinity...
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  77. #477
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    Well, I couldn't really afford all the copays for an MRI, so I've been trying to stretch and "physical therapy" my way out of this hole. I reckon it's probably surgery or nothing. Sigh. Isn't much you can do when your toes are wired up to 220 volts, with the switch thrown whenever you do anything fun!

  78. #478
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274

    Raleigh "The Edge"

    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    Abaris, that's great except for one issue- you can get more than your total bike/body weight into the rear tire contact patch using dynamics. F = MA.

    This technique allows you to climb very steep stuff on normal chainstay bikes. It isn't "trick" - it is just physics, and out here, you either learn it or you walk up the steeper climbs...
    So wouldn't that be
    dF/dt=M dA/dt

    which is really Change in Force (Dynamic Traction) = Mass X Jerk?




    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  79. #479
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274

    Raleigh "The Edge"

    Josh told me how good he is at dynamic traction if you get the dirft...


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  80. #480
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    Are you calling Josh a jerk?!? No espresso for you!

  81. #481
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274

    Raleigh "The Edge"

    oh no Sir, Sir John. Just that he has mass and he jerks it.....


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  82. #482
    mtbr member
    Reputation: snydercj7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    143
    Quote Originally Posted by abaris View Post
    oh no Sir, Sir John. Just that he has mass and he jerks it.....


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Lol

    I'm left blushing
    I use to be lean & mean... Now I'm just an a$$hole!

  83. #483
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    OK, going for my first singletrack mountain bike ride in nearly a year tonight... Heart Lake trail, Anacortes, WA, the easiest trail on Fidalgo Island (but also where I hurt my back a year ago). Wish me luck!

  84. #484
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    358
    Good luck John!! Take it easy out there..

  85. #485
    mtbr member
    Reputation: snydercj7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    143
    Good luck and godspeed, wish I was there as #12 is feeling the neglect.
    I use to be lean & mean... Now I'm just an a$$hole!

  86. #486
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    8
    Oh snap!
    Quote Originally Posted by abaris View Post
    oh no Sir, Sir John. Just that he has mass and he jerks it.....


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  87. #487
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    Ride Report. Olsen solo, for humanitarian reasons. Forgot back bladder, so no water or place to carry keys and wallet and EMT-summoning telephone device. Went to Bike Spot, bought cheapest water bottle, which came with free water, bless them. Proceeded to Heart Lake Ex-State Park, changed into Superman outfit in luxurious outhouse (concrete floor- pinnacle), hid valuables in car, and buried keys in forest next to a dog bone. Proceeded up incredibly steep and strenuous trail to the north (20 foot climb right out of the lot). My recently reclaimed granny gear got lots of use. Pleasantly surprised by lungs, less so by legs, which seem to glow red at the slightest effort. Back tightened up on every climb, and had flashes of The Bad Pain on several. Note: We are talking 5 to 10 foot vertical here… Every bad pain was followed by stopping and stretching. Had brought a cassette tape player with Enya for proper stretching mood; heat was already at Bikram yoga levels, so that was good. Made it to end of this trail with only 2 yoga sessions, in less than half an hour. Proceeded to pedal around “the square”, the bowl shaped rectangle of woods north of the lake, with only a few more yogic visits. Inadvertently climbed one maybe 50’ hill. Was passed by a family with a toddler. As they walked by me, the toddler said, “Daddy! Bike is all sweaty!”. Out of the mouth of babes… By this time, I was getting plenty thirsty. Reached for brand new water bottle, which was safely back in the car.

    4 blackberry scratches, moderate dehydration, 2 back spasms, one hill walked up, numerous mosquito fly-by’s, but no bites.

  88. #488
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274

    Raleigh "The Edge"

    Bravo Sir John!
    What bike did you use?

    (and what is a cassette player?......)


    Sent from somewhere
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  89. #489
    RocketJSquirrel
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by snydercj7 View Post
    Good luck and godspeed, wish I was there as #12 is feeling the neglect.
    Your such a *****!
    Ride that beast!!!

  90. #490
    RocketJSquirrel
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    Ride Report. Olsen solo, ...
    Glad to see you back in the WooDs, good man!!

  91. #491
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274

    Raleigh "The Edge"

    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    Ride Report. Olsen solo, for humanitarian reasons. Forgot back bladder, so no water or place to carry keys and wallet and EMT-summoning telephone device. Went to Bike Spot, bought cheapest water bottle, which came with free water, bless them. Proceeded to Heart Lake Ex-State Park, changed into Superman outfit in luxurious outhouse (concrete floor- pinnacle), hid valuables in car, and buried keys in forest next to a dog bone. Proceeded up incredibly steep and strenuous trail to the north (20 foot climb right out of the lot). My recently reclaimed granny gear got lots of use. Pleasantly surprised by lungs, less so by legs, which seem to glow red at the slightest effort. Back tightened up on every climb, and had flashes of The Bad Pain on several. Note: We are talking 5 to 10 foot vertical here… Every bad pain was followed by stopping and stretching. Had brought a cassette tape player with Enya for proper stretching mood; heat was already at Bikram yoga levels, so that was good. Made it to end of this trail with only 2 yoga sessions, in less than half an hour. Proceeded to pedal around “the square”, the bowl shaped rectangle of woods north of the lake, with only a few more yogic visits. Inadvertently climbed one maybe 50’ hill. Was passed by a family with a toddler. As they walked by me, the toddler said, “Daddy! Bike is all sweaty!”. Out of the mouth of babes… By this time, I was getting plenty thirsty. Reached for brand new water bottle, which was safely back in the car.

    4 blackberry scratches, moderate dehydration, 2 back spasms, one hill walked up, numerous mosquito fly-by’s, but no bites.
    So I too had a not so serious accident on my Pug (Broken chain going up steep section on down stroke single speed standing left me a gimp till I can get into chiropractor....). In the mean time, I upgraded the front end of my Edge: Exotic 465mm fork to slackened out the head angle from 74.5 degrees to about 70.5 degrees; 15.25 inch bottom bracket (that's +50mm in modern day trials frame geometry talk); Avid Elixer front disc brake with 180mm rotor; 26x2.5 tire.

    So how are all the Edge fans? Scott? John?
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  92. #492
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    With all that ground clearance, think of the high water you'll be able to ride through!

    Still can't ride, Bob. Back worse than ever, due to physical therapy bending me at the "Do Not Bend Here" sign. I hear you might come out to Washington? Josh will have to take you to Whistle! You do know how to whistle, don't you?

  93. #493
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274
    That sounds intimidating if not strange.

    I guess a fork with slightly less length like 430 or 440 might be in order. But the 74.5 degree head angle was a bit of a handful Rolling off obstacles.

    I probably won't make it out to Washington till next spring or so.

    Napa valley tomorrow though!
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  94. #494
    mtbr member
    Reputation: HAGASAN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    180

    Raleigh "The Edge"

    Just got an Edge.

    Raleigh "The Edge"-imageuploadedbytapatalk1413855747.840761.jpg


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  95. #495
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    Looks very original and stock! Nice!

  96. #496
    RocketJSquirrel
    Guest
    What are those funny things on the frame?

  97. #497
    Neo-Retro Forever
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,575
    Quote Originally Posted by RocketJSquirrel View Post
    What are those funny things on the frame?
    You're going to have to be more specific, Squirrel.

    Are you talking about the gussets at the head tube?

  98. #498
    RocketJSquirrel
    Guest
    I suppose you can call them that. Do they actually do anything?

  99. #499
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    They are there because Raleigh Marketing thought that they would look cool and make the bike look more rugged. They actually do make the front end of the frame stronger, and harder to buckle, but they were put on for "image". The jagged rear edges of the plates are pure styling, non-functional. I didn't argue much- a major bike company was going to volume-produce a trails/technical trail bike, for heaven's sake.

  100. #500
    RocketJSquirrel
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    They are there because Raleigh Marketing thought that they would look cool and make the bike look more rugged. They actually do make the front end of the frame stronger, and harder to buckle, but they were put on for "image". The jagged rear edges of the plates are pure styling, non-functional. I didn't argue much- a major bike company was going to volume-produce a trails/technical trail bike, for heaven's sake.
    Do you think they help with lateral stiffness of the frame?

  101. #501
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    Oh, maybe, but the frame would have had plenty of lateral stiffness without them, given that your are sitting on fat 30 PSI tires. A bit of spring in the frame doesn't hurt a mountain bike... I think the main values are A. Distinctive looks, and B. Impact protection (ramming big log/rock).

  102. #502
    RocketJSquirrel
    Guest
    Oh I see.
    I was thinking about Bottombracket flexing relative to the head tube when cranking on the blasted thing going up really steep $hit, like a tree trunk!

    you know, pushing down hard on the right pedal while pulling up hard on the right handlebar...

    I guess back then no one did FEA modeling of bike frames.

  103. #503
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    23
    Good Morning. Great Thread. I have a Raleigh "The Edge" in very good original condition for sale if anyone here is interested. Here is a link to more photos FREE eBay image gallery | JPEGbay.com. Asking $325 plus $100 shipping CONUS. Will ship internationally but buyer pays extra shipping. Thanks.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Raleigh "The Edge"-raleigh-edge.jpg  


  104. #504
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    Quote Originally Posted by RocketJSquirrel View Post
    Oh I see.
    I was thinking about Bottombracket flexing relative to the head tube when cranking on the blasted thing going up really steep $hit, like a tree trunk!

    you know, pushing down hard on the right pedal while pulling up hard on the right handlebar...

    I guess back then no one did FEA modeling of bike frames.
    Edges were built with thick, stiff, water pipe tubing. They were on the stiff end of that era's bikes, with or without gussets. They don't flex in any way that would disturb anybody's climbing! This much I know.

  105. #505
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bulgie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    Edges were built with thick, stiff, water pipe tubing. They were on the stiff end of that era's bikes, with or without gussets. They don't flex in any way that would disturb anybody's climbing! This much I know.
    IMHO, hardly any bike ever made will "flex in any way that would disturb anybody's climbing". Long story follows, sorry, ignore if you're pressed for time!

    Once (late 1980s) I rode with the crew of a small but influential MTB manufacturer as they took a bunch of standard models and prototypes out for a ride on the Slickrock trail (Moab UT) and other interesting "problems" near but off the main marked trail. The emphasis was on finding little sections that were hard enough to ride that you couldn't always get up/over/through them. Everyone switched bikes now and then to try to find out which models were best for which terrain. They had an extra-stiff prototype carbon-fiber frame, and a bunch of steel bikes with the typical oversized tubing of the day, which was also pretty stiff. (Too stiff for my taste, but middle of the road as lightweight MTBs went back then). I mostly stayed out of the bike swapping and just rode my own bike, which had lightweight small-diameter "road bike" tubing (basically a cyclocross frame, but with clearance for fat tires) -- very flexible.

    The founder of the company (a member of the MTB Hall of Fame) was their best rider and generally could ride sections that no one else could, except there was this one steep sandstone turtleback that I could get up, and no one else could. The Boss asked to borrow my bike, and on mine he got up it easily. We did this several times, switching bikes back and forth, and no one could get up it unless they were on my bike with the extra-flexible frame.

    My theory (and The Boss agreed) was the flex in the frame was acting as an energy "storage tank", smoothing out the power output to the rear wheel between the peak-power zone of each pedal stroke and the "dead spot" in each stroke where you can't get much power. As you get to the dead-spot, the wind-up in the frame is springing back and adding that stored energy back into your stroke.

    I think that happens in a similarly beneficial way on less strenuous climbs and maybe even during hard pedaling on the level too, only it's not so obvious as it was on that one climb up that turtleback, where you either made it or you didn't.

    The extra-stiff carbon fiber bike turned out to be everyone's least favorite that day, and that company ended up not releasing a production bike based on the prototype.

    Due to my feeling that frame flex makes me faster, I have always avoided stiff frames, despite the fact that I am large and heavy and pretty fast-twitch oriented. Most of my wins in my undistinguished amateur racing career came in sprints, so if I can ride on flexy frames, I think most anyone can. It is my belief (though I can't see how to prove it) that there is no benefit to a stiff frame, they just slow you down.

    It may well be that *using* the flex and benefiting from it requires some skill or adaptation. In other words a stiff frame may be best for a beginner who hasn't learned to make use of frame flex in his/her pedal stroke. But other than that, stiffness is a downside, that bike makers have tried to make into a selling point, because they don't know how to make flexy frames that are still strong enough to last.

    "The Boss" mentioned above admitted to me he'd love to make frames like mine, but with the thin small-diameter tubing, they'd come back for warranty replacement too often, which would take away from their bottom line. So they had to make them stiffer than they would like, as an unintended consequence of making them strong enough.

    I realize this is an unpopular opinion, and most people think a stiff frame is faster somehow. I just think most people are mistaken. Maybe this is arrogant of me, but I'd say real arrogance is thinking you need a stiffer frame than say Greg Lemond or Sean Kelly. Yes, I am old and mostly a roadie, so most of my reference points are road racers from a bygone era. Still, you must have heard of Lemond. You think you're stronger than him? He raced and won (Tour de France, World Championships etc.) on incredibly flexible frames. So did Kelly, and many others I could name. I know that doesn't prove anything, but the stiffness advocates haven't proved anything either. They imply stiffer is always better as if it's obvious, and never offer any evidence. (Not talking about anyone in this thread. This is not a personal attack!)

    Some people talk about the comfort advantage from frame flex, but I think that’s over-rated. Even flexy frames don’t attenuate bumps as much as tires, padded saddles and handlebar tape do, so the extra cush from a flexy frame might be lost in the noise. But the “wind-up” and energy-storage you get from frame flex isn’t easily gotten in any other parts of the bike. I think the frame needs to “give” with each stroke to best match the human motor.

    -MB

  106. #506
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274
    Quote Originally Posted by bulgie View Post
    IMHO,
    -MB
    I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion. And I might add, a well written piece. Reminds me of Olsen's writing back in the day. No Offense John, but sort of not actually factual. Sort of whimsical and ....what's the word I'm looking for?????

    Quote Originally Posted by bulgie View Post
    Once (late 1980s) I rode with the crew of a small but influential MTB manufacturer ....
    -MB
    Is it true you guys used to drop acid back then?

    OK. Just kidding. really...

    So I guess I'm puzzled by several things.

    1) Isn't climbing dominated by other physical factors such as but not limited to the geometry of the bike before frame flex would ever be an effect?

    2) I certainly understand the idea of pushing down on the pedal and then because of the lever arm offset of the bottom bracket there are three components to the Force vector of which one component pushes the bottom bracket side ways producing lateral flex (sideways movement) of the bottom bracket relative to the wheel axes on any bike frame,

    3) I certainly understand the idea that a bike frame is a spring, and the spring constant is definitely smaller in the lateral direction versus the vertical direction or the fore-aft direction, and therefore will flex easier in that direction, AND I understand that a spring will have a natural frequency at which it will resonate,

    4) but what I don't understand is how the stored energy in the frame happens to know how to transfer back from the lateral direction into a vertical direction and only in the direction of pedals going downward.
    I don't get it.

    If all what you say is true, then my Pug which flexes like a wet noodle and has 4" wide rear tire, will out climb my 1996 C'dale Beast of the East with it's measly little 2.25" rear tire.

    But is doesn't.

    It won't out climb the stinking old Pu$$ie Pink Edge with it's puny 24"x2.00" tire.

    I just don't understand your thought process, or those of "the Boss", unless mind altering drugs were involved.

    And You don't have to be shy, You can say who "the Boss" is. He probably would deny what you have stated anyway.


    I can't help it:
    And who the F(@#$& is Lemond. What mountain bike climbing race did he ever win? Comparing the Tour de France to climbing up a steep slippery mountain? WTF? What drugs do they have you one now?

    (And I apologize for any offensive comments that I may have made?)
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  107. #507
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bulgie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by abaris View Post
    1) Isn't climbing dominated by other physical factors such as but not limited to the geometry of the bike before frame flex would ever be an effect?
    Could you rephrase the question? It sounds like you're saying flex can't be a factor because other factors got there first. If you're just saying it's a less important factor than geometry then I might tend to agree, if you are talking largely different frame geometries, but the bikes in my anecdote were very similar, with normal NORBA-XC geo of the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by abaris View Post
    4) but what I don't understand is how the stored energy in the frame happens to know how to transfer back from the lateral direction into a vertical direction and only in the direction of pedals going downward.
    I don't get it.
    Many doubters over the years (decades really) have responded to my "flex is good" argument by saying they can't imagine a mechanism by which the stored energy is returned in a useful way. This is due to a lack of imagination. Others, smarter than you or I, have stated more or less that the energy has to be returned usefully because how could it NOT? The stored energy in a flexy frame is not insignificant, so if it were being wasted, then flexy frames would be seen to be slower, and they have not. In fact there's a lot of anecdotal evidence to the contrary. For example the fact that before Klein/Cannondale and then carpet fiber, virtually all racing bikes were more flexible than cheap gaspipe frames. Racers were clamoring for the most flexible bikes they could get (though they might not have known that the frames they were clamoring for were the flexiest).

    On the old "Hardcore Bicycle Science" mailing list started by Jim Papadopoulos and then later curated by Sheldon Brown, some of our best bicycling scientists debated the subject and there was quite a lot of support for the idea that frame stored energy was returned usefully as propulsion. I might even call it a consensus. Certainly everyone agreed that energy was going somewhere (look up the First Law of Thermodynamics if you doubt that), and no one proposed any other serious candidate for where *else* it could be going. For instance, flexible frames don't heat up measurably on a climb.

    Quote Originally Posted by abaris View Post
    And who the F(@#$& is Lemond. What mountain bike climbing race did he ever win? Comparing the Tour de France to climbing up a steep slippery mountain?
    Maybe you're right and pedaling is fundamentally different on and off-road. Me, I think the same laws of physics apply. BTW my experience is not limited to the road. My very first NORBA race, I entered as a Pro because in the early days of NORBA they let you just say you were a pro and issued a license on the spot. I won the race overall. That was the only Pro race I ever won, but I did race expert class for a few years and won once or twice there too. I competed in a dozen or so Trials meets organized by John Olsen (very fun, thanks again John, eternally grateful) and built myself a custom trials/trails bike even before I made myself an XC-oriented bike, so trials pre-dates racing, for me.

    Not that knowing how to ride validates my crazy theories on frame flex -- good riders say the stupidest things sometimes! I just wanted to point out this isn't all armchair theorizing.

    This debate will rage forever because no one has come up with an experiment that could truly answer the question. I just like to remind people that there is a debate. Too often, the "stiff is good" camp acts like the question is settled. This is mostly due to ignorance. It seems to me, from my discussions with probably hundreds of people over the last 40 years or so, that the more a bicycle scientist has thought about the question, the more likely he/she is to agree that at least some flex is good for pedaling efficiency, and stored energy is probably not wasted to any significant degree.

    -MB

  108. #508
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274

    Raleigh "The Edge"

    Great.
    Patent the freaking thing and make some freaking money.




    Sent from somewhere
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  109. #509
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274
    It seems like smart person like yourself can calculate the energy based frame deflection data taken with the published results of the Rinard Frame Deflection Test as described in the Sheldon Brown page

    The Rinard Frame Deflection Test

    I'll bet John Olsen, being an accomplished mechanical engineer, could help you out with that.

    Then calculate the energy that you use when pedaling up an incline:

    Pedal power | Sciencelearn Hub

    Now simply compare the two and put an end to all this pointless dribble.
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  110. #510
    Stokeless Asshat
    Reputation: jeff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,360
    There's a few threads on here where that "summit" was discussed. Tons of great photos. Chuck Ibis. Tom Ritchey. Otis Guy etc.
    Zip ties? Not on my bike!

    Want:
    650B rims or wheel set. 80's vintage 32 or 36 x 135mm

  111. #511
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bulgie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    9
    Nah, I'm not that smart, don't know how to do what you're describing. I was a bike frame builder for over 20 years, but never worked as an engineer. My gut tells me it's not that easy though, or one of the really smart guys who have asked these questions, like Damon Rinard, Jim Papadopoulos, Jobst Brandt or John Olsen would have done the calculation by now. I don't think any of those guys thought it was pointless either. I think it's super interesting, you don't?

    The debate on the old Hardcore Bicycle Science listserv ("Hardcore BS"!) was lively, with plenty of super-smart guys weighing in, but nobody proposed any easy test or calculation that could be done to settle the issue. I wish!

    -MB

  112. #512
    mtbr member
    Reputation: HAGASAN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    180

    Raleigh "The Edge"

    Here's my The Edge all restored to its original glory.. The tires are original with no dry rot. Sidewalls are in excellent shape.

    Raleigh "The Edge"-imageuploadedbytapatalk1420858964.074959.jpg

    Raleigh "The Edge"-imageuploadedbytapatalk1420858982.219033.jpg

    Raleigh "The Edge"-imageuploadedbytapatalk1420859017.558924.jpg

    Raleigh "The Edge"-imageuploadedbytapatalk1420859040.658455.jpg

    Raleigh "The Edge"-imageuploadedbytapatalk1420859076.962655.jpg

    Raleigh "The Edge"-imageuploadedbytapatalk1420859122.181383.jpg

    Got it for sale if you're interested.

  113. #513
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    7

    First Edge ride in over 20yrs!

    After 20+ yrs of wanting an Edge, I got one!
    (I think its the one that HAGASAN had available in the previous post! (the scratches seem to be identical))
    Rode it to work, neither it nor I are a speed demon but, pretty comfortable for a 7 mile ride.
    Now I need to get it into the woods!

  114. #514
    mtbr member
    Reputation: HAGASAN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    180
    Yep it was mine you bought!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  115. #515
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    7
    It was very clean, easy to assemble and in great condition!
    How did you find it? Was it an Edge you have had for long?

  116. #516
    Bipolar roller
    Reputation: singletrackmack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,243
    If anyone is interested, I came across a Raleigh Edge frame and fork today for $30 at the Reno bike project while checking out some forks. It's a 15.5" from bb to center of the tube. Rough condition though. Here is a pic. I'll be back there tomorrow after I get a few more measurements off the bike I am getting a fork for.

    Raleigh "The Edge"-image.jpg

    Raleigh "The Edge"-image.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Raleigh "The Edge"-image.jpg  

    Get out of the gutter and onto the mountain top.

  117. #517
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274
    Quote Originally Posted by singletrackmack View Post
    If anyone is interested, I came across a Raleigh Edge frame and fork today for $30 at the Reno bike project while checking out some forks. It's a 15.5" from bb to center of the tube. Rough condition though. Here is a pic. I'll be back there tomorrow after I get a few more measurements off the bike I am getting a fork for.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	image.jpg 
Views:	148 
Size:	166.7 KB 
ID:	989999

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	image.jpg 
Views:	87 
Size:	121.9 KB 
ID:	989998
    I Like..
    I will PM you.


    Sent from somewhere
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  118. #518
    Bipolar roller
    Reputation: singletrackmack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,243
    Quote Originally Posted by abaris View Post
    I Like..
    I will PM you.


    Sent from somewhere
    Well let me know because I will be at the Reno bike project this afternoon, but won't be back down to reno until next week.
    Get out of the gutter and onto the mountain top.

  119. #519
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274
    Is that a crack in the top tube near the head tube?
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  120. #520
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    7
    I acquired an Edge frameset and built a functioning bike for myself.
    However, I am having some difficulty locating a vintage front derailleur (26.8mm bottom pull) to fit my chain wheels 26/36/42.
    The "triple" cages I find aren't long enough for this old school gear spread.
    If anyone should have a part to help me out I'd appreciate it!


    10/1/15 - Found a derailleur and now my shifting is fully functional!
    Last edited by bowyer2002; 10-01-2015 at 09:58 AM.

  121. #521
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    992
    Its been a while since I have had the Edge out for a spin. Took her out to a really tight fast trail and man...what a difference when compared to the 29er I typically ride. Ok, it seemed like a bit more pedaling involved but wow was it agile. Thought you Edge guys might appreciate a couple of shots as I loaded and was ready to head out.




    Bought the Edge new for my wife back in 1987 or 88 I can't recall anymore. She rode it maybe 4-5 times since then. I never rode it because I always felt guilty for buying her a bike I liked to ride. The good news is its in great shape and even the trials tires are still in excellent shape with no dry-rotting. I slipped on my ti railed bontrager saddle and some old clipless pedals and hit the trail. After over 25 years I don't feel as bad pulling it out for a ride from time to time!

  122. #522
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    7
    I understand that that is an 88 frame since the U-brake is on the chainstays.
    THAT is a super clean bike! Still rolling the yellow cable housing too, cool.

  123. #523
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    992
    Quote Originally Posted by bowyer2002 View Post
    I understand that that is an 88 frame since the U-brake is on the chainstays.
    THAT is a super clean bike! Still rolling the yellow cable housing too, cool.
    Yes, when I was shopping and looking at the Edge the shop had two on the floor, one with the under the chainstay rear brake and one with a seat stay brake ( not a shimano U-brake but a diacompe iirc). They were a local chain of stores but those were the last of the Edge bikes in the local St.Louis area. I wanted to get the one with the seat stay brakes but when I went back the next day to buy the bike that one was gone. You snooze you lose right?

    At any rate I have had many old 88 vintage bikes with chainstay brakes and as long as you don't spend a lot of time riding in wet and muddy conditions they work fine and have a solid feel. Its a fun bike but truth be told you definitely have to do a lot more pedaling to cover ground than with a standard 26"x2 or 29er where its even more evident. For short tight trails though its still a very fun bike to ride and definitely a unique ride.

  124. #524
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    7
    You mention STL, did you get that from The Touring Cyclist?
    I worked at a couple of their stores during college summers off for a couple of years.
    I scored the one in post #512 and now my brother is riding it in SW MO.
    They're FUN to ride but do take more effort, which can be fun but they're no commuter bike by any means!
    They wheelie like no other!

  125. #525
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    992
    Quote Originally Posted by bowyer2002 View Post
    You mention STL, did you get that from The Touring Cyclist?
    I worked at a couple of their stores during college summers off for a couple of years.
    I scored the one in post #512 and now my brother is riding it in SW MO.
    They're FUN to ride but do take more effort, which can be fun but they're no commuter bike by any means!
    They wheelie like no other!
    I did buy that bike at the Touring Cyclist! I bought it from the store location on St. Charles Rock Road in Bridgeton at the time. I was checking the local info and that store is the only remaining Touring Cyclist Store left open at this point. At one time I think they had 4-5 stores iirc. Small world for sure.

  126. #526
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    7
    TC had 7 stores in their hay day.
    I worked at 3 over the years.
    Cool find, especially that your wife lets you ride 'her' Edge!

    PS if you should want to unload it, I may know a good home for it...

  127. #527
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    149
    Hey John, Bob, been a while, glad to see we have some new edger's on the forum.

  128. #528
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274
    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    Hey John, Bob, been a while, glad to see we have some new edger's on the forum.
    Hi Scott, John.
    I thought you had fallen off a log and hurt your back!
    Hope all is well. It's snowing here so it's fat bike time.
    Cheers.
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  129. #529
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    Anybody still around?

  130. #530
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274
    I think the Edge is dead. Although I still ride mine (once in a great while...it has a seat )

  131. #531
    Bipolar roller
    Reputation: singletrackmack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,243
    That edge I posted a few posts earlier is still around hanging on the wall at that bike project.
    Get out of the gutter and onto the mountain top.

  132. #532
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    358
    I'm still lurking..

  133. #533
    mtbr member
    Reputation: DirtyHun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,315
    Quote Originally Posted by singletrackmack View Post
    That edge I posted a few posts earlier is still around hanging on the wall at that bike project.
    What a COOL piece of MTB history. I hope some are out on trails still.

  134. #534
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bulgie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    9
    Is this the place to discuss that bike that played guitar in U2?

  135. #535
    Bipolar roller
    Reputation: singletrackmack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,243
    Quote Originally Posted by singletrackmack View Post
    That edge I posted a few posts earlier is still around hanging on the wall at that bike project.
    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyHun View Post
    What a COOL piece of MTB history. I hope some are out on trails still.
    Stopped by the shop today and the The Edge (is that redundant?) was gone! I asked and they said it sold a few weeks ago. Looks like there could be another out on the trails soon I hope
    Get out of the gutter and onto the mountain top.

  136. #536
    mtbr member
    Reputation: DirtyHun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,315
    That is cool. I do hope you guys end up seeing it out on the trails!
    2016 El Oso Grande 6x1 (3 sets of wheels)

  137. #537
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274
    Does anyone know how many Edge's were made?

  138. #538
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    401
    What size seat post do these take

  139. #539
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    992
    25.4 of memory serves correct. Not the most normal size. Back in the day you could buy a TCO post that was 425 or 450 mm long and that’s what I have in mine. Thomson still sells the elite in a 25.4 x 410mm long post.

  140. #540
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274
    Quote Originally Posted by N10S View Post
    25.4 of memory serves correct. Not the most normal size. Back in the day you could buy a TCO post that was 425 or 450 mm long and that’s what I have in mine. Thomson still sells the elite in a 25.4 x 410mm long post.
    I just pulled mine out and it has 26.4 stamped on it.
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  141. #541
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    10
    Hey guys, I'm really interested in the old rolling trials scene from the 80s. I'd like to learn more about it, like the rules, what the sections were like, what techniques were used... Any chance someone here could fill me in? Sorry if this is the wrong thread for this, it's kind of Edge related...

  142. #542
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    274
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Salikan View Post
    Hey guys, I'm really interested in the old rolling trials scene from the 80s. I'd like to learn more about it, like the rules, what the sections were like, what techniques were used... Any chance someone here could fill me in? Sorry if this is the wrong thread for this, it's kind of Edge related...
    Probably best to contact StrangeBike13
    ,a.k.a. John Olsen/Uncle Knobby, as he is the patriach of Rolling Trials...
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  143. #543
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by abaris View Post
    Probably best to contact StrangeBike13
    ,a.k.a. John Olsen/Uncle Knobby, as he is the patriach of Rolling Trials...
    Thanks abaris. I tried contacting him on here about a year ago but never got a reply. Maybe he'll get a notification from these posts though?

  144. #544
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252

    Unccle Knobby emerges from the mists

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Salikan View Post
    Thanks abaris. I tried contacting him on here about a year ago but never got a reply. Maybe he'll get a notification from these posts though?
    Hi, there! John Olsen/Uncle Knobby here. What can I do for you?

  145. #545
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    Hi, there! John Olsen/Uncle Knobby here. What can I do for you?
    Hi John! I'd love to learn more about the trials scene that evolved around you in the '80s! When did you start making Strange Bikes?
    Would it be alright if I asked you a few more questions over email? My email is [email protected]

  146. #546
    artistic...
    Reputation: colker1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,571
    What´s the geo on those things? Head angle, fork rake, wheelbase, BB height?
    WTB: Bomber Z2 1 1/8 steerer, in good to excellent shape OR bomber rebuild kit.

  147. #547
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    Hi, there! John Olsen/Uncle Knobby here. What can I do for you?
    Maybe I need to know a secret handshake or something :P

  148. #548
    Schipperkes are cool.
    Reputation: banks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    4,160
    Quote Originally Posted by abaris View Post
    Keep your money.

    Let John Olsen know how much we all appreciated his writing back then.
    Back to the top so John can see this thread!
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Better suited to non-aggressive 125# gals named Russell.
    I ride so slow, your Garmin will shut off.

  149. #549
    Schipperkes are cool.
    Reputation: banks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    4,160
    Back to the top!
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Better suited to non-aggressive 125# gals named Russell.
    I ride so slow, your Garmin will shut off.

  150. #550
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252

    Trials scene in the Northwest

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Salikan View Post
    Hi John! I'd love to learn more about the trials scene that evolved around you in the '80s! When did you start making Strange Bikes?
    Would it be alright if I asked you a few more questions over email? My email is [email protected]
    Hi, Alex! Nice to hear from you. I haven't been on this site in years, so I apologize if i've missed anything. Our scene in Seattle area started when I got into mountain bikes in 1981 and 82, coming from motorcycle trials. I lived near a mountain used for motor trials, Tiger Mountain, and I started riding there, on trials loop trails and trials sections used by the trials club. I was totally into motorcycle trails for the previous decade, so when I thought about riding in the woods, it was a very trials-like riding that I pictured. Also, in the Washington woods and foothils, all of the trails were very technical, steep, roots, large logs, tight corners...
    So naturally, as I learned how to ride my Mongoose Kos Cruiser on Tiger, I started laying out sections for myself. Then a few friends got into it too, and pretty soon, we were organizing trials events. The first bike trials events up here were done with the PNTA motorcycle guys. We'd go to their events and choose the line that fit bicycles best. Soon, we had enough people that we did our own events on Tiger, getting as many as 50 riders. I'd lay the sections out, do all the marking, and run the event, as well as ride it. Then some rogue jeepers and motorcyclists tore the trails up, and off-road riding was banned on Tiger Mountain. At the same time, I was getting transferred north to the Skagit Valley, where my company has a technical center for truck testing, so in 86, I moved to what proved to be mountain bike heaven, with great technical riding in 4 directions. Also, about that time, my elbow tendons were objecting to riding over 36" logs and hopping around (not that I was ever good at hopping- I was always a roller), so I transitioned away from pure trials and more toward technical trail riding, which became my main love in life. The riding up here is very technical, and I was lucky to live here!

  151. #551
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252

    Edge geometry

    I don't remember exactly, and I'm too lazy to walk out to the shop, get the Edge down, and measure it, but I think it had maybe a 73 degree head angle. The geo was based on my Kos Cruiser with a few tweeks that I had done on frames that I had built for myself before Raleigh came along. I think the BB height was 12.5". Later, I learned from the Bridgestone MB-1 that a longer top tube was better, and my later bikes were 1" longer TT (and wheelbase), except that I was making chainstays shorter by then, too.

  152. #552
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252

    technical trail stuff

    Some shots you may enjoy...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Raleigh "The Edge"-1395.jpg  

    Raleigh "The Edge"-1386.jpg  

    Raleigh "The Edge"-june06gunsight-008.jpg  

    Raleigh "The Edge"-lavaaction.jpg  

    Raleigh "The Edge"-millenium2.jpg  


  153. #553
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    Hi, Alex! Nice to hear from you. I haven't been on this site in years, so I apologize if i've missed anything. Our scene in Seattle area started when I got into mountain bikes in 1981 and 82, coming from motorcycle trials. I lived near a mountain used for motor trials, Tiger Mountain, and I started riding there, on trials loop trails and trials sections used by the trials club. I was totally into motorcycle trails for the previous decade, so when I thought about riding in the woods, it was a very trials-like riding that I pictured. Also, in the Washington woods and foothils, all of the trails were very technical, steep, roots, large logs, tight corners...
    So naturally, as I learned how to ride my Mongoose Kos Cruiser on Tiger, I started laying out sections for myself. Then a few friends got into it too, and pretty soon, we were organizing trials events. The first bike trials events up here were done with the PNTA motorcycle guys. We'd go to their events and choose the line that fit bicycles best. Soon, we had enough people that we did our own events on Tiger, getting as many as 50 riders. I'd lay the sections out, do all the marking, and run the event, as well as ride it. Then some rogue jeepers and motorcyclists tore the trails up, and off-road riding was banned on Tiger Mountain. At the same time, I was getting transferred north to the Skagit Valley, where my company has a technical center for truck testing, so in 86, I moved to what proved to be mountain bike heaven, with great technical riding in 4 directions. Also, about that time, my elbow tendons were objecting to riding over 36" logs and hopping around (not that I was ever good at hopping- I was always a roller), so I transitioned away from pure trials and more toward technical trail riding, which became my main love in life. The riding up here is very technical, and I was lucky to live here!
    Thank you John! And do you remember when you started making Strange Bikes, with elevated chainstays and no seat?

    That's interesting that it was your elbows that stopped you from hopping, I assumed you were always a roller.

    I read somewhere that it was a Vancouver rider who eventually brought hopping down to the Washington scene, do you by any chance remember who that was?

  154. #554
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Salikan View Post
    Thank you John! And do you remember when you started making Strange Bikes, with elevated chainstays and no seat?

    That's interesting that it was your elbows that stopped you from hopping, I assumed you were always a roller.

    I read somewhere that it was a Vancouver rider who eventually brought hopping down to the Washington scene, do you by any chance remember who that was?
    I started building trials bikes with no seat in about 1985. i never used them, so why carry the weight? Not all had elevated chainstays, but I was experimenting with how short you could make chainstays, wanting to learn the plusses and minusses, so that forced me to elevated stays. I WAS always a roller- my attempts at Euro style hopping were pretty pathetic. The fellow who came to our Issaquah trials events and introduced us to hopping was named Trevor. I don't remember his last name. He was (hopefully is) a very nice guy, but we lost touch.

    WHere are you located?

  155. #555
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    I started building trials bikes with no seat in about 1985. i never used them, so why carry the weight? Not all had elevated chainstays, but I was experimenting with how short you could make chainstays, wanting to learn the plusses and minusses, so that forced me to elevated stays. I WAS always a roller- my attempts at Euro style hopping were pretty pathetic. The fellow who came to our Issaquah trials events and introduced us to hopping was named Trevor. I don't remember his last name. He was (hopefully is) a very nice guy, but we lost touch.

    WHere are you located?
    Were the elevated chainstays later than 1985?

    I'm split between England as a student, and Vancouver where I'm from. I'll ask around and see if anyone knows of a Trevor from the mid-to-late '80s Vancouver trials scene.

  156. #556
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Salikan View Post
    Were the elevated chainstays later than 1985?

    I'm split between England as a student, and Vancouver where I'm from. I'll ask around and see if anyone knows of a Trevor from the mid-to-late '80s Vancouver trials scene.
    Cool! I only got to ride North Van a few times (and injured myself each time! :0) but what a great scene! Where do you go to school in England? Do you do any motorcycle trials?

  157. #557
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    Cool! I only got to ride North Van a few times (and injured myself each time! :0) but what a great scene! Where do you go to school in England? Do you do any motorcycle trials?
    Yeah, the North Shore is great! There's also still a thriving trials competition scene in Vancouver held at the local mototrials club park, or at least there was the last time I competed in 2014. The past few years I've been at UCL in London, but I have a conditional offer to do my master's at Cambridge next year (human evolution). I've never ridden moto myself, but I'd love to try it someday.

    Have you ever seen Desmond Lee's history of biketrials, called Leaps and Bounds 2: The story of BikeTrial (2006)?

  158. #558
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Salikan View Post
    Yeah, the North Shore is great! There's also still a thriving trials competition scene in Vancouver held at the local mototrials club park, or at least there was the last time I competed in 2014. The past few years I've been at UCL in London, but I have a conditional offer to do my master's at Cambridge next year (human evolution). I've never ridden moto myself, but I'd love to try it someday.

    Have you ever seen Desmond Lee's history of biketrials, called Leaps and Bounds 2: The story of BikeTrial (2006)?
    I rode both motorcycles and bikes at Ioco- a great place! I rode there with Trevor once, as I remember. He could ride circles around me with his hopping skills.

    Funny- I considered doing a PhD at Cambridge in 89. A Cambridge prof did a sabbatical with us, and he wanted me to come study with him. I got to visit the campus, and I really enjoyed the place. I'd urge you to do it if you can!

    I really enjoy reading about the Brit vintage moto scene. If I lived there, I'd have to pick up a Bultaco and go get dirty.

    No, I never read that book. Focused on Europe?

  159. #559
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    I rode both motorcycles and bikes at Ioco- a great place! I rode there with Trevor once, as I remember. He could ride circles around me with his hopping skills.

    Funny- I considered doing a PhD at Cambridge in 89. A Cambridge prof did a sabbatical with us, and he wanted me to come study with him. I got to visit the campus, and I really enjoyed the place. I'd urge you to do it if you can!

    I really enjoy reading about the Brit vintage moto scene. If I lived there, I'd have to pick up a Bultaco and go get dirty.

    No, I never read that book. Focused on Europe?
    Yeah, Ioco, that's the one! What sort of bike did Trevor ride back then?

    Why did you end up choosing not to go to Cambridge?

    It's a DVD, and it's been uploaded to YouTube for free. If you sign into your Facebook account I can send you the link. It's mainly focused on Europe, but I could also share some interesting North American trials history that you may or may not already be aware of as well.

  160. #560
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Salikan View Post
    Yeah, Ioco, that's the one! What sort of bike did Trevor ride back then?

    Why did you end up choosing not to go to Cambridge?

    It's a DVD, and it's been uploaded to YouTube for free. If you sign into your Facebook account I can send you the link. It's mainly focused on Europe, but I could also share some interesting North American trials history that you may or may not already be aware of as well.
    I think maybe a Monty, maybe? This would have been 86. I don't know when Montys became available. By 89, I had a good job, a house, a bike frame shop, pets, a wife, and it was just too disruptive to sell everything to move to England. Plus my company wouldn't do anything to help, so I just couldn't afford to do it. Plus I wasn't sure I was smart enough for Cambridge!

  161. #561
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    I think maybe a Monty, maybe? This would have been 86. I don't know when Montys became available. By 89, I had a good job, a house, a bike frame shop, pets, a wife, and it was just too disruptive to sell everything to move to England. Plus my company wouldn't do anything to help, so I just couldn't afford to do it.
    I can't say when Montys became available in North America, but I know they started producing them in 1981 in red, then in '83-84 they were blue, and I think the first chrome one was '87.

    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    Plus I wasn't sure I was smart enough for Cambridge!
    Well they let me in, and I'm an idiot :P

    One more question: what's the story behind that 1967 Phillips you modified? Were you already riding bicycle trials back then? Did you exclusively ride moto trials in the gap between 1967 and 1981?

  162. #562
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Salikan View Post
    I can't say when Montys became available in North America, but I know they started producing them in 1981 in red, then in '83-84 they were blue, and I think the first chrome one was '87.



    Well they let me in, and I'm an idiot :P

    One more question: what's the story behind that 1967 Phillips you modified? Were you already riding bicycle trials back then? Did you exclusively ride moto trials in the gap between 1967 and 1981?
    I was 12 or 13, and had been reading in Cycle World about motorcycle trials. I lived in southern Minnesota, so very little trials terrain about. My brother had left the Phillips in my dad's garage, so I started to modify it so that I could ride in the construction site of a high school football stadium a block away. First with a chainring in the back for 1:1 gearing. I should have stopped there, that was its performance pinnacle. THen I put a 20" BMX wheel in the back for the fat tire and knobbiness. This also eliminated the rear brake. Then I put the leading link front suspension on it. This eliminated the front brake, and my work was complete. It was now a total deathtrap. I still rode it in the gullies and dirt piles, but going downhill was a bit hairy.

  163. #563
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StrangeBike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    252
    BTW, the 3 speed was from the 50s, I think. I did surgery on it in the 60s.

  164. #564
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    I was 12 or 13, and had been reading in Cycle World about motorcycle trials. I lived in southern Minnesota, so very little trials terrain about. My brother had left the Phillips in my dad's garage, so I started to modify it so that I could ride in the construction site of a high school football stadium a block away. First with a chainring in the back for 1:1 gearing. I should have stopped there, that was its performance pinnacle. THen I put a 20" BMX wheel in the back for the fat tire and knobbiness. This also eliminated the rear brake. Then I put the leading link front suspension on it. This eliminated the front brake, and my work was complete. It was now a total deathtrap. I still rode it in the gullies and dirt piles, but going downhill was a bit hairy.
    Just another way you were a pioneer, now every BMXer is brakeless .

    I assume you're not making frames anymore, so would it be alright with you hypothetically speaking if I were to have a Strange Bike replica made for me by a custom frame builder at some point in the future? I'd love to have one to ride, and I doubt anyone will be getting rid of their original ones (I can't blame them!).

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Members who have read this thread: 17

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.