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  1. #201
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    Trolls

    Those decals were made for me by Genny Gebhart and Lee Kanning, who lived not a mile from the Fremont Bridge. There must be something in the water there... Or is it the proximity to Ballard?

  2. #202
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    Anytime John. It's nice to get a glimpse of more John Olsen creations!!
    Do they have numbers?

    Here is how close my rear tire fits now!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Raleigh "The Edge"-2011-08-11_09-23-45_371.jpg  

    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  3. #203
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    Yeah, I'm gonna say that that tire is about the limit! You could try to dent the chainstays, got some ideas on how to do that.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    Hi guys! This is John Olsen. I just discovered this thread (amazed to find it, actually). I was Uncle Knobby from 1994 until about 2002.
    So if you were Uncle Knobby, who was Capt. Dondo?

    For Scott Murray, How's the single speed edge and log climbing going?

    abaris
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  5. #205
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    I did Uncle Knobby from '94 on, after my predecessor pissed of the guy who ran Nightsun (!). go figure, but good for me. Captain Dondo was Don Cuerdon, and he actually edited my Uncle Knobby submissions, and he was great at it! Dondo is still around, I think living in New England or PA or somewhere. He is a great guy, and I miss his columns.

  6. #206
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    Hi Bob, Just waiting for a sette single speed chain tensioner I ordered in the mail to get here, Didn't really want a spring loaded tensioner but the price was right and if it works I'll be HAPPY, I want to get a rennen tensioner eventually ($50.00) Week two no working bike, This sucks, Those guys looked like they were right out of an episode of C.H.I.P.S, Tee shirts, short shorts, tube socks and tennis shoes now that is custom riding gear, Wait a second that's how I used to dress, Anyways what a cool blast from the past, And there riding in dirt, through creeks, over logs and rocks WOW riding trials not in a mall parking lot over a course of all man made obsticles what a concept, Give me old timers trials, OFF ROAD, on courses laid out over TECHNICAL NATURAL TERRAIN, Once I get my bike done I'll post some pictures, Oh by the way someone dumped a BUNCH more BIG logs off where I was telling you about the one that's, down the street from my house, You and Mr. Olsen would love it, getting late, Scott Murray signing off

  7. #207
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    Hey Guys, Got the sette tensioner the other day, Put it on, barely fit, You'll see what I mean, Going to go for a good off road ride sun. will report back on it's performance then, will try to get some pictures posted as soon as I can get my one son to help me post some, It's actually a pretty trick little tensioner and so far the bike has worked GREAT, I ordered another for my other edge, Anyway's I'll post some pictures for you guys to check out asap, Scott I may not be fast but I sure am slow Murray signing off

  8. #208
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    Hey Guys, No issues with the tensioner worked great, Still need to bounce it around some more real good to see how it does then, so on to something different, anybody got any pictures or info on the fat chance mountain trials bike, got some great pictures from bush pig but I thought some of you other guys might have some insight on this bike, I found an image on the net of a 1985 spec sheet with a picture of one, I remember them from the good old days but would like more pictures and info on this bike if anyone could help me out? Thanks Scott

  9. #209
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    Hey Guys, Need some advice, I want to go with a square tapered sealed cartridge bearing bottom bracket on my bikes,I want a maintenance free one, been looking at the shimano un 55, I want something inexpensive but will last me a long time with no problems, Is that a good choice or would something else be better, anyboby know off hand what size I need? anyways if you guys will give me some feedback on the bottom bracket please, Thanks Scott

  10. #210
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    Hey scott, i use one of those no problem.
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  11. #211
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    Look here.
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  12. #212
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    Hi Bob,Thanks I'll give the un 55 a try,I just found the american trials steeplejack on mombat, SWEET!! Thanks for your help and advice, Scott

  13. #213
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    Hi Bob, so how do like life with the singlespeed? I'd have to say I'm digging it, clean and simple like a bike is supposed to be, just to let you know the sette works but there is play between the part that threads into your derailleur hanger and the actual tensioner body, so far still works good no issues just wish places had pride in making a quality product instead of just a cheap one also the jockey wheel kind of floats the way it's mounted, I really like the design of it just if the quality was better, anyways what's new with your bike? saw your picture you posted can't really see the rear hub and gear, so you say you made it from your old freewheel? Going to have to save up some money get me a shimano un 55 sealed cartradge bottom bracket, Thanks again for the reply,Scott

  14. #214
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    Scott,
    Singlespeed is slow!
    I've been running a 20 front tooth and a 16 freewheel cheepo single freewheel on the rear. This gives me a 30 inch gear which allows me to grind up hills and cost on back down. Anything higher geared is just too difficult to go up the short steep stuff around here. I am thinking of going lower and adding a second single speed for the dirt roads. but still working on the two right combos that give me the the gear ratios I'm looking for with the same length chain.

    I have added Maguras to the Edge. I know it distracts from the originality of the bike, but I want to start doing some more serious trials moves and need really good brakes....Does anyone know when magura HS33 first came on the scene?????

    I am keeping all the original parts bagged and tagged for future Vintage restoration.

    So here are some pics of the current state:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Raleigh "The Edge"-p9056099sm.jpg  

    Raleigh "The Edge"-p9056101sm.jpg  

    Raleigh "The Edge"-p9056103sm.jpg  

    Raleigh "The Edge"-p9056104sm.jpg  

    Raleigh "The Edge"-p9056115sm.jpg  

    Raleigh "The Edge"-p9056110sm.jpg  

    Raleigh "The Edge"-p9056109sm.jpg  

    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  15. #215
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    Hey Bob, Damn that looks good, Nice job on the singlespeed conversion, Nice brakes, You must have some wicked awesome parts laying around in your garage, You should leave it just like that Bob, looks badass! So how long did it take to trim the back tire? Looks really good with 2.50's on it front and rear, really good, So just let me know when your ready to sell it and how much, Good job Bob!!, Scott

  16. #216
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    Those look SOO good with fat rubber on them..nice ride
    :)

  17. #217
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    Thanks Scott, da'HOOV (I've been meaning to ask, where does that screen name come from?)

    As you well know, I am not in the market to sell (at this point). And I have twice as much into the tires and brakes as I paid for the bike. But the bike is priceless with Olsen's signature on it.

    My goal is to relive a few years with the equipment that I wanted back then and just couldn't get (afford, constrained by family responsibilties, etc.). I will be happy when I can ride up to my picnic table and "hop" up on it, old school style and then gracefully drop off the other side.

    28+lbs is sort of heavy to do this with but hey you never know.

    To trim the rear tire took less than an hour and more than a half hour. Not the most exciting way to make it fit. But the extra volume of the 2.5 inchers is greatly appreciated. and gobs of traction. Haven't been to the big rocks to check out the sticky compound yet.

    And the brakes combined with the tires STOP the bike at command with just a touch of that sweet musical trials chirps.

    I kind of like calling this bike a Resto-Rod.....

    Now if I could find a shorter PINK stem.... and some wider bars.....
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  18. #218
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    On the BB, there are like 3 variables. You've got a 68mm British thread (BSC) shell. The other variables are how wide is the axle from end to end, and how far does the right (drive) side stick out? If you match the axle length and the right side length, you have a fit.

    I've used those Shimano BBs for years with no problems. I'd say "Why pay more?".

    Abaris, your bike looks great! Hey, if you had a chain tensioner, you could run 2 chainrings (inside and middle) and two cogs on the rear, and have a high-ish gear and a trials-ish gear.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post

    Abaris, your bike looks great! Hey, if you had a chain tensioner, you could run 2 chainrings (inside and middle) and two cogs on the rear, and have a high-ish gear and a trials-ish gear.
    Thanks john...
    It would look better if i could find some "PINK" touch-up paint.

    Somehow you are able to read my mind! I have been contemplating doing almost that but without a tensioner ala "Sheldon Brown". I think a 24/24 super trial-ish and a 32/12 use the same chain length.
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  20. #220
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    You could go to an auto paint store and have them match the Edge pink, and sell you a pint or quart, and then apply it with a PreVal bottle...

    Has anybody ever found a rattle can paint that matches? I doubt it.

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by abaris View Post
    da'HOOV (I've been meaning to ask, where does that screen name come from?).....
    When I was "stan4bikes" someone mentioned that there was a "sucking" sound in my area implying I was "vacuuming" up all the available bikes off CL and garage sales. I can't remember if it was me or someone else who coined "Hoover"...I just shortened it to "da'HOOV"
    :)

  22. #222
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    Hey guys, John thanks for the info on the bottom bracket, With yours and bob's blessing I'll give the shimano un 55 a try, Thanks to both of you again, The paint color as I understand it is salmon, (funny I always that was a fish) I have a rattle can of krylon in salmon and it looks real close to the stem, unfortunately for the frame you'll probably have to go to a paint store to have them match it up to get the glossy shine the frame has, The magura hydraulic rim brakes are known to be kinda noisey aren't they or is that just all hydraulic rim brakes in general? I want to track down some tioga factory dh tires in the 24x2.3 size and give them a try on my bikes, Wish they hadn't stop making that size, love that tread pattern, burley tire, Almost 2 a.m. Thanks again John and Bob for all your help and wisdom, This is Scott I may not be fast but I sure am slow Murray signing off

  23. #223
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    Hey guys, So John, Bob, Have either of you guys gone to the mombat? Scott

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    Hey guys, So John, Bob, Have either of you guys gone to the mombat? Scott
    Do you mean physically or by web or meta-physically?
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  25. #225
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    Hey Bob, Physically gone to the museum, the pictures on there website of the place, It looks amazing, All those amazingly wicked looking bikes, I'm thinking they should have a nighttime security guard, ME!! Scott

  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    Hey Bob, Physically gone to the museum, the pictures on there website of the place, It looks amazing, All those amazingly wicked looking bikes, I'm thinking they should have a nighttime security guard, ME!! Scott
    Unfortunately, i have not been there. Looks like an awesome place to go. I think Mr. Olsen is part of the museum!!
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  27. #227
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    Hey guys, I need a rear brake for one of my edge's, What of the current bmx u brakes that are available would you recommend, I want a strong powerful brake that can lock up the rear wheel, easy to adjust, smooth feel not grabby something that I can run a currently available brake brace with if there is such a beast, Any ideas? Thanks Scott

  28. #228
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    I'll leave this one for the experts.....John, et. al.
    I think Olsen wrote a mag article once on braking way back when....
    now there are discs.....Brake Therapy Conversion Kit.
    If you look at Olsen's StrangBike number 13, I think you'll see one...but John can verify.
    of coarse, you need a new wheel....
    I'll leave this one for the experts....
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  29. #229
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    Hey Bob,Thanks for the feedback, That would be a nice way to go but thats way to expensive for me, I was thinking more along the lines of a good new u brake (bmx) rather then going with deore xt u brakes or suntour roller cam brakes that are 23 plus year old designs, Scott

  30. #230
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    There are some pretty good modern U-Brake designs out there. Even Tektro makes one, with sealed bearing pivots and CNC construction, for 40 bucks or so. There is also the Flybikes CNC U-Brake, which looks cool but seems to have something of a different geometry than you might need, possibly resulting in less braking power. But then I am no expert on BMX braking needs, and most BMX riders I knew never cared about the brakes too much.
    In fact, the old XT U-Brake has something of a following among BMXers, as it is tough and reliable and the return spring makes the brake snap back open quickly, something which was never true of the Suntour versions of the Rollercam.
    And the best upgrade of all is Shimano SLR Plus brake levers, double the rim clearance AND double the braking power because of a special cam inside... And if you need instant, no modulation stops on the rear, you can get KoolStop salmon-colored pads for a song. On the right rims and with the right brakes and levers, they lock the wheel instantly- until they pick up a very thin film of aluminum dust from the surface of the rim, making them work like ordinary pads. In my experience, this happens after about 20 minutes of riding.
    I used them on the rear, and always carried a little eyedropper bottle full of rubbing alcohol. When the pads got a little glazed and stopped being instant stoppers, I would practice more rolling moves, then hop off, open the brake and clean the pad and rims of dust (the pads pick up the aluminum dust and then leave it back on the rim), connect the brake and start hopping again.
    _

  31. #231
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    Thanks uphiller for the info. been checking out dans comp, lots of u brakes. One of my son's is really into bmx, used to work at calabasas in santa claria I think it was and he said all the guys there ranted and raved over the fly bikes u brake, ( I would hope so at 75.00 bucks a brake) he also recommened the odyssey evolver 2, You know when I asked him about bmx u brakes and which he thought were the best he said why use brakes, What's up with those bmx guys? Thanks again for the info. Scott

  32. #232
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    Boy. The edge is dead....

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  33. #233
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    Hey Bob, Scott here, What do you mean the edge is dead, What's wrong? What happened? Last we talked you where going to get a new sweet ride, nothing wrong I hope,

  34. #234
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    Hey Bob, You out there? What's going on? Contact me, Scott

  35. #235
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    no edge

  36. #236
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    Opps, i meant to say "the edge THREAD is dead".

    Sorry for the delay - been traveling.......

    My edge is back in its tricked out 26/24 sweet state.

    Bob

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  37. #237
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    Hey Bob, Good to here from you, sent you a pm but the format is different let me know if you got it, still running singlespeed setups on both my edge's, 26 front 24 rear on one and 30 front and 24 rear on the other, I'll try to get some images of them on the forum for you to see, This is Scott ( I may not be fast but I sure am slow) signing off.

  38. #238
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    Hey anbody out there in raleigh edge forum land know where I could score some tioga 24x2.30 factory dh tires? Scott

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    Ebay does not have any right now.
    The 24" size is enjoying something of a renaissance among trials riders, mainly street-oriented ones- check out the following link:
    24" Trials Tires
    _

  40. #240
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    Thanks uphiller, Been to there site before,I have to say I like the looks of the kenda kinetics, sure wished tioga still made the factory dh in a 24x2.30, sure wish the edge had the room in the stays for 24 inch tires available these days but then thats what exacto knives are for, anyways back in those days a 2.125 was the widest tire there was, Thanks again for the info. Hey Bob you out there, did you get my pm? Anybody out there know what happened to John Olsen? John are you out there we all miss you. Scott

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    I'd hate to disappoint you but bob isn't going to answer you. It's getting creepy.

  42. #242
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    IRC Kujo DH in 2.35" was also not bad, but is rare these days. Keep your eyes peeled on eBay for both, you may get lucky.
    _

  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanleyButterfly View Post
    I'd hate to disappoint you but bob isn't going to answer you. It's getting creepy.

    Really????!!!!!
    I don't don't have a dragon tattoo!

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
    Last edited by abaris; 04-23-2012 at 07:20 AM.
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  44. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanleyButterfly View Post
    I'd hate to disappoint you but bob isn't going to answer you. It's getting creepy.
    And Stanley Butterfly, do you own an Edge?

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  45. #245
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    My old riding buddy Josh Snyder moved to Rochester, NY, and I gave him Strange Bike 12 to restore. Here's a picture:

    Oops, I don't know how to post a picture. How do old Edgers post pictures?

  46. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    My old riding buddy Josh Snyder moved to Rochester, NY, and I gave him Strange Bike 12 to restore. Here's a picture:

    Oops, I don't know how to post a picture. How do old Edgers post pictures?
    when you reply to thread, there is a section called Additional Options below the box where you type, attach file, upload images.

  47. #247
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    Strangebike 12

    This bike is being restored (and will be ridden) by Josh Snyder, now of Rochester, NY, formerly of Mount Vernon, WA (hotbed of odd technical bike creation, probably due to something in the water).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Raleigh "The Edge"-strangebike12.jpg  


  48. #248
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    Headset woes

    By the way, I am trying to restore a 92 Cannondale Beast of the East, and I need to find an affordable 1.25" headset, threaded. Anybody got one laying around? I can buy a new Chris King for only (gulp) $149.95. There are several on Ebay for about that much money. Help!

    John Olsen

  49. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    By the way, I am trying to restore a 92 Cannondale Beast of the East, and I need to find an affordable 1.25" headset, threaded. Anybody got one laying around? I can buy a new Chris King for only (gulp) $149.95. There are several on Ebay for about that much money. Help!

    John Olsen
    Hey John, instead of flooding the forum with wanted spam, we encourage people to offer things for trade in the trade thread or get a wanted ad for free through the classifieds. Or, do what most of us have to do and get used stuff through ebay or craigslist.

  50. #250
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    Hey John,
    Long time, no post!!!

    That is one cool frame. It may not be an Edge but it is an Olsen derivative from the master himself.
    What are the specs?
    Being from the Rochester Area, I'll be looking for the bike on the trails (but not until October since I'm out of town until then).
    Hopefully, your friend has found out about the Victor Mountain bike park.

    There are are few others also.

    Not much elevation around Rochester though.

    I have successfully shortened my edge chain-stays to 14.5 inches with a BB height of 14.5 inches. and of coarse a steeper head angle (~75 degrees) and shorter wheelbase (~38")

    It's not as twitchy as I thought it might be.

    No pics because I left the bike in Rochester and I won't be back until October since I'm out of town until then.

    Keep us Edgers posted on the rebuild!!
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  51. #251
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    I'll get you in contact with Josh, and you two can get together and have a Twitchfest.

    Bad news: He is a marine
    Good news: He whines a lot.

  52. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    I'll get you in contact with Josh, and you two can get together and have a Twitchfest.

    Bad news: He is a marine
    Good news: He whines a lot.
    haha! great post.

  53. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    I'll get you in contact with Josh, and you two can get together and have a Twitchfest.

    Bad news: He is a marine
    Good news: He whines a lot.
    HAHAHAHAAAAA.

    John the next time I am home you will pay for giving out my secrets. LOL
    I use to be lean & mean... Now I'm just an a$$hole!

  54. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlonbike View Post
    Hey John, instead of flooding the forum with wanted spam, we encourage people to offer things for trade in the trade thread or get a wanted ad for free through the classifieds. Or, do what most of us have to do and get used stuff through ebay or craigslist.
    Really GOB? lighten up a bit John was doing cool stuff with bikes before you were born. Have some respect.
    :)

  55. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by da'HOOV View Post
    Really GOB? lighten up a bit John was doing cool stuff with bikes before you were born. Have some respect.
    I'm sure he was but I'm just trying to be fair. You can chill out yourself, Stan.

  56. #256
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    gosh, I'm sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by da'HOOV View Post
    Really GOB? lighten up a bit John was doing cool stuff with bikes before you were born. Have some respect.
    I guess I insulted GOB with this post. I apologize.
    :)

  57. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by da'HOOV View Post
    I guess I insulted GOB with this post. I apologize.
    Thanks.

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    Don't feel bad John, I got in trouble for that also. A moderator explained it to me and there is a rhyme and reason.
    I use to be lean & mean... Now I'm just an a$$hole!

  59. #259
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted View Post
    Umm.....wait a minute......I get confused. I think that's him. Capn' Dondo was the other one. Don Cuerdon? Pink Ibis dude, right?

    Anyway, buy the Raleigh!
    Sorry to thread jack for a minute...

    Now you have my head spinning, the guy with the Afro and handlebar mustache was "Light Brown" in one of the oldie moto mags, he use to wear and sell "It takes knobby balls to ride motocross" T-shirts!

    If ya didn't buy the Raleigh, buy it, if ya did... GREAT!

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    Hey John, Glad to have you back,Since you are the reason this forum is even here, It's been way to long since i've checked the forum, anyways it's good to here from you again,

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    And I, in turn, am glad to have YOU back, Scott! Happy Edging!

    At least our Edges don't have annoying nylon strings that break when you are only half way down the sidewalk, or emit smelly two-stroke fumes. I don't know where that came from; too much coffee this morning?

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    So John now that you're back, what happens if I remove the seat from my Edge? How do I plug the seat tube hole?
    .
    .
    .

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    With flesh! HA HA HA HA HA!

    Not recommended. It hurts too much when you land there... Don't ask me how I know. How about a very light plastic (BMX?) saddle on a cut down seat post instead? The problem is finding a 25.8 (or whatever weird size it is) seatpost to cut down so you still have the stock one.

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    Thanks John, or when trials was ridden not hopped,on bikes with seats, on natural terrain courses and when there was this way cool design in mountain bikes called the mountain trials bike with 26/24 wheels on them, Boy I miss those times but at least I have two edges that I can lower the seats down on and pedal my brains out while not going very fast at all (which makes crashing a little less painful) and enjoy those times again, thanks to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    With flesh! HA HA HA HA HA!

    Not recommended. It hurts too much when you land there... Don't ask me how I know. How about a very light plastic (BMX?) saddle on a cut down seat post instead? The problem is finding a 25.8 (or whatever weird size it is) seatpost to cut down so you still have the stock one.

    OUCH!
    So...just how do you know?
    There's gotta be a humorous whimsical story there somewhere!

    Oh, oh, oh....memories from the eighties .... Cindy Whitehead winning a NORBA race with no seat......
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

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    26.4, That's the size of the seatposts on both my edges.

  67. #267
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    In the mid 80s, I built a bike with a 26" front wheel, a 20" rear wheel (so I could use sticky trials tires), and no seat. The top tube/seat tube/seat stays came to a rather sharp confluence. Yes, I did hit it once, and it hurt like bejeebers. We called this the Buffalo Bike (small hindquarters, large forward body. It also had a 14.5" bottom bracket height. Strange times...

    I remember Cindy Whitehead- she was my hero!

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    I would think an old uni bmx plastic bmx seat and a cut down seatpost or a small super light road bike seat with a cut down post wouldn't weigh that much, Besides I'd need a seat, I have tired old legs syndrome, Wouldn't it be cool if shimano brought back the old beartrap deore xt pedals, I have a pair of those on both my edge's and I agree with john, these were by far the best pedal ever made. How about a vintage class in trials nothing newer 1990 ?

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    26 inch front wheel, 20 inch rear, that would be interesting looking to say the least, How did it steer? I would think it would have had alot of wheel flop with that big a difference in wheel sizes/ So do you have any pictures you'd like to share with the rest of us of some of your past creations,rides you went on or competitions you were in, maybe some pictures of your edge? and more stories please, I can't tell you how cool it is to have you on this forum.

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    Scott, I am still riding those Shimano XT beartrap pedals 3 times a week! They are wonderful, and Shimano should (but will never) make them again. Vintage rolling trials would be wonderful, although my body wouldn't appreciate it (elbow tendons made me stop doing ultra-technical stuff a long time ago). Did you know that the Brits have changed the rules of moto trials so you can't stop and hop anymore? Back to the '80s! Yeah! The 26/20 had no problem with wheel flop- that strictly a function of head angle and fork offset, and the Buffalo had very similar geometry to an edge, maybe a bit steeper and less offset, so even less wheel flop. It was wonderful with that sticky tire- 20" trials tires were the first MTB tires with sticky rubber compounds, taken from motorcycling trials. Really bad in mud, tho, due to the tight tread compound.

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    nice find.

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    Just some advice, please. I'm cleaning out the garage and I've got an Edge without too much wear and tear on (still got the rubber whiskers on the original tires) that I'm going to get rid of, but I wanted to ask where the best place to post a for sale notice is. I did motorcycle trials for a lot of years and never could get my oomph going to do it on bicycles. Would prefer to sell to an enthusiast rather than just toss it on the open market.

    Best.

    Mike

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    Somebody should buy the patent from shimano and start making those pedals again, I love those things, those pedals are to good to just have the patent sit and gather dust. Sounds like the brits have the right idea, What class did you ride in back in the 80's if you had a bike with two different size wheels say 26/24 or 24/20, A vintage rolling trials multi size wheels class, yeah now that would be the ticket, with rim brakes and require a seat. So is there a class nowdays that allows a bike with two different size wheels? The buffalo sounds interesting wish you had pictures, any sites on the net that has pictures of trials from back in the 80's?

  74. #274
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    Whoa, ah say, whoa son! Classes? We put on our own events in Washington with no organization, just myself and a phone list. Sometimes, we rode in Puget Sound Trialers motorcycle events (they were very nice to us and let us ride their sections). If we did our own, I usually had 2 or 3 lines (Expert, Intermediate, Novice). There were absolutely no bike classes. You could have run a unicycle or a track bike if you wanted. The rules were the same as m/c trials. At that time, stopping was 5, but we didn't enforce it. Stopping and dabbing, now THAT was a five. Hopping came to us via a rider from Vancouver BC who kicked our butts. At that point, I was having elbow trouble, and retired to just plain old technical mountain bike riding...

  75. #275
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    Well, I got e-yelled at the other week when I asked if anybody had a certain sized head set, so I guess you couldn't just mention it here, in the obvious place, the website devoted to that particular bike. I'm just curious how much you might ask for it, and if you have any pictures of it, if that doesn't engage the anti-whatever police?

  76. #276
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    Scott, patents aren't a problem- they would long-since be expired, and they usually only work in one country anyway. In fact, I think that there were pretty close copies back in the 80s, before all the Cool Kids rushed off the clipless pedals. It wasn't until North Shore and Freeriding got going in the 90s that anybody bought platform pedals again. Now they have come back in favor, and most stores carry them. If you had tried to find good platform pedals in 1995, quite a different story!

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    Grass Roots racing, Why is it that always seems to be the best and most fun type of racing, Whatever form of racing it is it seems like once the big sponsers step into the picture then it quits being just fun, to many rules, everyone starts taking everything way to seriously and it becomes just another way for someone to make a buck.

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    So Mnemonic Mike, Can you post some pictures and a price?

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    Well, I don't want to get yelled at; I was just asking where is the best place since I don't want to waste a lot of time just to unload a space-taker-upper. I'll be glad to take it to the best-recommended place.


    Oops.... the attempted preview tells me that have to already have 10 or more posts on the forum before I can post pix or links, so I can't even give the URL's to where they are. Hmmmmm... let me think about this.

    Anyway, I'm in Durango, Colorado, if that helps.

    Mike

  80. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by MnemonicMike View Post
    Just some advice, please. I'm cleaning out the garage and I've got an Edge without too much wear and tear on (still got the rubber whiskers on the original tires) that I'm going to get rid of, but I wanted to ask where the best place to post a for sale notice is. I did motorcycle trials for a lot of years and never could get my oomph going to do it on bicycles. Would prefer to sell to an enthusiast rather than just toss it on the open market.

    Best.

    Mike
    Mike,

    The best place to put an ad is the vintage bike classified section here. The ad is 2 bucks and I'll walk you through it if you'd like. Feel free to pm me. We can then start a new thread and everybody in this forum will see it.

    Sorry, strangebike, but that wasn't an e yell. I was quite polite and if it offended you, I'm sorry. If you need a headset, feel free to ask for it if you have something for trade in the vintage for trade thread or take out a FREE wanted ad. More info in the sticky at the top of the forum.

    Thanks guys!

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    Hey Guys need some help here, I don't know gear inches so hear is my question, running a singlespeed setup on my edge, had a 26 tooth chanring in front and a 24 tooth rear cog in back, switched to a 24 tooth in front, what tooth rear cog do I need to run to get my gearing back to the same as it was with the 26 tooth front chainring? Thanks

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    Sent from my BNTV250 using Tapatalk 2
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    Thanks Bob, So it won't be till october before we can see your new & improved edge, Can't wait.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    Thanks Bob, So it won't be till october before we can see your new & improved edge, Can't wait.
    Actually, I've gotten a wee bit homesick, so I'm heading back for the weekend. I'll see if I can snap a few photos of my pathetic brazing. I truly must warn y'all that the paint don't match. Bob
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

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    COOL, I can't wait to see it, So what exactly did you do to the frame? Sounds like you gave it full service treatment?

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    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Raleigh "The Edge"-uploadfromtaptalk1345309770179.jpg  

    Raleigh "The Edge"-uploadfromtaptalk1345309791982.jpg  

    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

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    Bob!! That looks so cool, Nice job, Man thats really shortened down, I bet it gets crazy traction climbing now, So after you take it for it's first off road trip let us know how it compares to stock,It looks like a ibis trials comp with bigger wheels,
    Last edited by scott murray; 08-25-2012 at 08:44 PM.

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    So Bob, How do you like it now? How's it handle? Now I want your bike even more then I did before,That looks totally trick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    So Bob, How do you like it now? How's it handle? Now I want your bike even more then I did before,That looks totally trick.
    Easy to pull the front wheel up! Easy to nose wheelie! =>easy to face plant if not careful!

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    Looks to me like a prototype for the new 2013 Raleigh the Edge, Improved tire clearance so you can run 2.5 inch wide tires, Solves rear tire issues, Lots of real good 24x2.50 tires out there, Magura rim brakes, Strong powerful brakes, I still love that nashbar, the rise,the bend, everything about that handlebar, Short chainstays for awesome traction, Yes sir that about covers it. I say again, Very nice job BOB, Looks TRICK!!

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    Scott, your 26/24 gave you an 1.08 ratio, or a 28.2" gear (front teeth/rear teeth)*26= gear inches.

    In order to get a 1.08 ratio with a 24 front, you get as close as you can with a 22 tooth!

    Viola. You now owe me a 16 oz. mocha at La Crema Coffee House, La Conner, WA. That is my standard fee.

  92. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    You now owe me a 16 oz. mocha at La Crema Coffee House, La Conner, WA. That is my standard fee.
    We might need to have an intervention. Say it out loud with me John.

    "Hi my name is John Olsen and I am addicted to mocha's".
    I use to be lean & mean... Now I'm just an a$$hole!

  93. #293
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    Josh, you are just upset because you are the only one who has ever actually paid up!

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    LOL! It was long over due and I was glad to.

    So it was bizarre seeing an Edge (Bob's) again after all these years. He said it's not pink it's sssssalmon, ok it was me that said it with the extra flair. His shortened chain stays really give it the wheel base like a Strange Bike.
    I use to be lean & mean... Now I'm just an a$$hole!

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    Thanks John, You know what I'd really enjoy doing is find a way you, Bob and I could get together for like pizza and beer, We could share stories about how we each got all the various cuts,gashes and bruises on our bodies from past mountain biking adventures. So John what do you think of bob's bobbed bike?
    Last edited by scott murray; 08-22-2012 at 02:37 AM.

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    I think it's wonderful! Bob, did you build a jig to hold everything straight, or did you just wing it? TIG or gas/braze?

    I probably told you guys about this, but I did a 26" rear conversion to an Edge back in the 90s for a friend named Larry Trigve. It was done for tire availability. It seemed to improve all the geometry (a bit steeper, more BB height). No pics, sadly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    I think it's wonderful! Bob, did you build a jig to hold everything straight, or did you just wing it? TIG or gas/braze?
    Hi John!
    Thanks for the nice comment.
    I fillet brazed(although some call it filet brazed). I did not use a jig. I did it almost as I had described to you in an PM a while ago: Put in a solid axle to hold the rear triangle. carefully cut the chainstay section out (~2") but left the chainstay brace intact; butted up against the BB (with a come along tied to a solid front axle in the forks). Lots of eyeballing and filling (and maybe a little hammering and a little heat wrench on the seat stays).

    Scott, John,
    Now that I am semi-retired, I am planning on places to go. And two stops will most definitely be Southern California and Washington state. (It may not be until next year and it may take longer than that for an old codger like myself to get in shape.)

    Scott,
    Now that you mentioned the Ibis Trials Comp, (Ibis Mountain Trials is it's 26/24 big brother), I am now thinking of slapping on a 24" front wheel and a 20" rear. That would lower the bike 2" and set the BB almost exactly what a Trials Comp is/was.

    Josh,
    THanks for the ride. It was nice to get back out and actually ride with someone who doesn't want to go like a train wreck.


    Bob
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

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    Hey John, A dual 26 inch wheeled edge, That would be cool, I always liked the 24 inch back wheel because on the coming down side of a log the back of the bike was less likely to come over on top of you then a 26 inch wheel would, being two inches smaller. Hey Bob, I live about 90 miles north of sacramento and would be honored to go on a nice SLOW log hopping bike ride with you and I can even supply a bike for you to ride (the advantage of owning 2 edges) and besides who needs to be in shape to go for a SLOW log hopping bike ride anyways? I don't, Besides as I mentioned before I suffer from TOLS, Tired old legs sydrome anyways, plus with the gearing on both my bikes we aren't going anywhere fast, Now as for a 24/20 edge that would be a cool little bike,Very cool. So what about going back to a dual 24 inch wheeled edge, It would give you a little more top tube clearance, you'd lose less ground clearance then with a 20 inch rear wheel and you wouldn't have to rebraze rear brake mounts, Do you still have the fork and front wheel you used from before? With the rear end bobbed like it is now that might work real nice. I think it looks pretty trick the way it is now but doing a 24/20 conversion would for sure give you more top tube clearance which is what you want.

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    Hey Bob, Just thought of something else to consider if you go 24/20 coversion, Your rear derailleur is really going to be hanging down there in back with that small a back wheel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abaris View Post
    Josh,
    THanks for the ride. It was nice to get back out and actually ride with someone who doesn't want to go like a train wreck.
    Bob
    Thank you Bob, it was nice to meet up with some locals we should do it again when you are in town. I think I will stick with the father/ son tandem rides so I can keep up since I have always been slower.
    I use to be lean & mean... Now I'm just an a$$hole!

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    One of my experimental bikes, built for Dex Henschel in Albert Lea, MN, was a 24/24. I had no real reason to build it, but I hadn't built one, so I did, you see? Plus, it was yellow. Dex's son Mark (near LaCrosse) has it now. I don't think I have any pics of this bike. IT seemed to work pretty well, as I laid out the geometry specifically for the 24s. ONe thing I noticed- when you are riding hard on good traction surfaces, like lava rock, the smaller the wheel, the less the flex, and you can actually feel it. Compared to 20s, 26s feel like they are made of rubber! Yes, 29s would roll over 2" steps easier, but, whoa, I bet they feel gummy on rock.

    19s or 20s are best for hopping, 26s are great for rolling, but 24s are a good "rolling trials" compromise. Especially if the frame is yellow.

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    Anybody got any ideas on somewhere that you could get some shorter square taper,five bolt crankarms, say 165mm or 155mm that would fit and work on a EDGE?

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    You ain't goin' hopper on us, now, are you Scott?

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    NO SIR!! Rolling Technical trail riding.

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    Bless you, my son. That was the correct answer. You may continue your existence.

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    Thank you my father, I vow my allegiance only to you, all wise and knowing one... May all your trails be technical and your sections be clean...
    Last edited by scott murray; 08-26-2012 at 10:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    Thank you my father, I vow my allegiance only to you, all wise and knowing one... May all your trails be technical and your sections be clean...
    This is getting. Just a little strange.....

    But if I stick the 24" front fork and wheel in I'd lose 2" in height at the front...I think that translates to an even steeper head angle ~3 degrees. Right now it is nearly 74.5 degrees (what day ya think John?)...but as you point out it's only a 3/4" @ the BB.

    A 24/20 would leave the head angle the same as both the front and rear would drop 2". I just don't want to be too unstable.......



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    Hi Bob, But aren't we all just a little bit unstable? If you decide to go 24/20 I have a shimano deore xt short cage rear derailleur that would help to make up for the smaller rear wheel.

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    Your BB should be too low with a 20, I'd think. It just depends what you think you are doing with the bike, the way you are riding it. I wouldn't go steeper than 74.5 degrees, again depending on what you want to ride. Unless you are experimenting, which I can hardly say anything negative about!

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    Hey Bob, I know your trying to get more standover clearance but I think your bike looks so trick just the way it is.

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    So John, You said before you got two edges from raleigh for coming up with the design, and you mentioned you still had one, might you post some pictures of it for your followers to gaze upon?

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    Yes, I will. It is shockingly close to stock, because it was never my "rider". I always had a "modern" xc bike and a strange bike, depending on the ride.SO the Edge was pretty much a museum bike...

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    Thanks John, So exactly how many bikes do you currently own, So you said in an earlier thread that you own a cannondale Beast of the East? Sweet Bike, Have you seen Bob's Beast? Theirs pictures of it on the forum, Thanks Again.

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    my bikes

    Hey Guys, My one son the computer whiz came over for dinner tonite and I talked him into taking a couple of pictures of my babies and posting them for me.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Raleigh "The Edge"-wp_000155.jpg  

    Raleigh "The Edge"-wp_000157.jpg  


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    Nice! You still happy with the single speed? Looks serious!

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    There both serious all right, Seriously slow, But yes I love singlespeed, True you get nowhere fast but I'm just not in that much of a hurry to get anywhere these days, besides in theory you don't get mangled as bad going slow when you spill, Yeah right, I'm seriously thinking about getting some knee/shinguards, got a certain brand you'd recommend, Thanks for the compliments on my bikes, Coming from you that means alot.

  117. #317
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    Hey John, So what ever became of your raven trials bike

  118. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    Hey Guys, My one son the computer whiz came over for dinner tonite and I talked him into taking a couple of pictures of my babies and posting them for me.
    They're almost identical now Scott.
    Looks like you've been doing a little work.

    You know hydraulic rim brakes will mount on rollercam mounts.

    Happy labor day everyone!

    Bob
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  119. #319
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    I had a Raven that I rode for a season, but I gave it back to Dave Gnehm when Angel Rodriguez asked me to design R&E Montagna bikes for him. So I only had one for a little while. They were very good bikes- Dave did a good job with them.

  120. #320
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    Raven & Edge

    posted before but since I started the thread I'm taking liberty to repost. Don't think I'll ever let go of the Raven but Edges are pretty common up here in the NorthWest, I've got two and have flipped two more..
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Raleigh "The Edge"-raven-edge-005.jpg  

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    :)

  121. #321
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    Nice to hear from you Bob, Happy labor day, I did not know that about hydraulic rim brakes, Now that's the kind of brakes I'd really like to have, Alas no money for that, So what's up with your bike? Once again good to hear from you Bob, Happy labor day John.

  122. #322
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    That raven is a classic, I would never get rid of that either, Saw that image on mombat's site before thanks for the update, Happy labor day

  123. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    Nice to hear from you Bob, Happy labor day, I did not know that about hydraulic rim brakes, Now that's the kind of brakes I'd really like to have, Alas no money for that, So what's up with your bike? Once again good to hear from you Bob, Happy labor day John.
    Not much going on...I'm in a real flat part of the country right now and the Edge is home in the basement. Last time out was with Josh. It climbed well. No spinning. However, I suffer from tired old out of shape body....my heart monitor was hitting 160 riding with Josh at Victor mountain bike park...I didn't try any jumps or steep descents...I am going back to a singlespeed though. I've typically run 30 gear inches...but being that I'm older and slower, it would seem a 24" might be better until I get back in shape.....
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  124. #324
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    Hey Bob, This is not bike related,I Hope You and your family are okay and have not been affected by the weather,Tell me all is well..

  125. #325
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    Hey John, I went to yahoo, typed in 26 bmx, clicked on images and in the third row down,far left picture, under the wording page 2, was this 26/20 bmx bike, made me think of you and the rhino bike you said you built, That's really trick looking in an odd sort of way,Put a little chainring on it, Put some knobby tires on it,change the bar and stem and tell me that wouldn't be fun to go play on. Make sure to space between 26 and bmx or it won't show it.
    Last edited by scott murray; 09-09-2012 at 04:14 PM. Reason: spelling

  126. #326
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    Speaking of small wheels, have any of you done any riding on a 29er? I can't imagine they would be very good on our ultra-steep stuff...

  127. #327
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    Not I,Everything newer way to expensive, Besides I really like my edges,But I've become interested in the 26/20 setup from the good old days, So who besides you and ibis used to make 26/20 bikes and whatever happened to the rhino, I like the idea of the small back wheel for coming down off of logs, Less likely to flip over on you, The natural wood furniture place down the street from my house has this one log that I had a mishap coming down off of the last time I went their and I mangled my left knee on the asphalt, (by the way none of you guys got back to me on what brand of knee/shinguards you thought were best) Anyways now everytime I go back down their I'm real leary of that log and it's not even as big as some I've gone over before,Just got to go and kick it's ass a few times,Any of you know of any site that has pictures of any 26/20 trials bikes or any pictures of any old vintage trials bikes or photo's of old trials events?

  128. #328
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    Raleigh "The Edge"-uploadfromtaptalk1348582487222.jpg

    Maybe you should try jumping/hopping off......
    When I use to ride over picnic tables I quickly learned to jump off and land on the rear wheel just slightly before the front wheel. If I didn't it was a guaranteed face plant!

    Stay safe my friend.
    and drink wisely....
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  129. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    Speaking of small wheels, have any of you done any riding on a 29er? I can't imagine they would be very good on our ultra-steep stuff...

    No I have not embraced the 29er marketing foofoo.
    However, guaranteed higher bottom bracket than typical 26" mtb. But wait, look at those looonnnggg chainstays and slack headangles..... and the standover height just scares me....
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  130. #330
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    My buffalo bike was eventually bought by one Bill Hoffer, who now lives in Eastern Washington and I hope is not burning up. I only built one that way, primarily so I could have a rolling bike with a really "grippy in the wet" 20" trials tire. The point about coming off of logs is a good one- you have much more crotch clearance when you get way back. I don't know of any pictures... I used to wear Trace soccer pads, well before there were "freeride" pads. They were mainly cloth but had a footstrap and a plastic layer on the outside and about a half inch of padding. I loved them. Worried less about knee pads.

  131. #331
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    I put a 20" x 2.0" Maxxis Creepy Crawler, a real sticky tire on back.

    It just looks strange....
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  132. #332
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    Going steep uphill it wants to "wheelie" very easily; almost too easily.
    I haven't tried real steep downies yet....
    That requires the removal of the seat (on this old Edge, the seat won't drop all the way down) to work well as you indicated.
    It would be delightful if I could just find a 19" x 2.5" trials wheel and tire (assembled). I certainly have the chainstay space for it.

    Scott, you indicated that Ibis made a 26"x20"???

    Sincerely,
    Buffalo BOB
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  133. #333
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    So Bob, You outdid yourself this time, Strange looking yes but I have to say after sitting here looking at it for a few minutes it grows on you, I Like It!! I bet with the creepy crawler it gets great traction, Man I'd love to ride that, See how it feels, So you going to go into the custom bike business I might have to send you one of mine? So the Big Cheese must have made that alot easier. The ibis was an experimental bike back when they were trying different wheel sizes, 20/20, 26/24, 26/20, 24/20, Don't know if the 26/20 ever made it to the production stage or not, Hey how about a 29/24 Technical trail rolling trials bike, LETS BRING BACK THE STRANGE BIKES, Nice Job Bob Looks Cool...

  134. #334
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    Hey John,Thanks for the info. So what do you think of buffalo Bobs latest creation? You and Bob should get into the custom bike business together and bring back the multisize wheeled Strange Bikes, So Bob How do you like your bike the way you have it set up now? Lots of top tube clearance now I bet.

  135. #335
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    Why not a 29/24? It just depends on what you really trying to ride. I think a 29 will always be flexible and clumsy in tight, tech stuff. I think a 26/24 might be about optimum, IF you could get good tires!!!

    Bob, there is a secret to stand up climbing. I'll tell/show you for one mocha.

  136. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post

    Bob, there is a secret to stand up climbing. I'll tell/show you for one mocha.
    Ok. Shoot away....

    Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
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  137. #337
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    Hey John, I agree with you on the 26/24 being about the best setup there is, the mountain trials bike was such a cool concept,a mountain bike that excels at tight technical rolling trials type terrain.

  138. #338
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    OK, here goes. There will be a quiz, so pay attention.

    When climbing seated, you try to keep some weight on the front tire by leaning forward, and then sliding forward on the seat, so that the front wheel doesn't come up during pedal powerstrokes. Eventually, as the hill gets steeper, you run out of seat. Not every local has hills like this; some places don't have the soil strength to let you climb extremely steep hills (gravel, for instance, or sand).

    Key is, a tire can transmit tractive forces as a function of how hard it is being pressed into the dirt. The more you push down, the harder a tractive force you can transmit into the ground. When you stand up, the natural tendency is for your naughty bits to go forward, and to stand nearly straight up. When you do this, you unload the rear tire. If you move back for more grip, you unload the front tire. Result? No makee. Crashee. Say hill is impossible, go home.

    Trick: Keep your head low, over the stem, butt back, arms bent, elbows out. Find a fore/aft location where there is statically enough weight on the front tire so you don't wheelie. Now, on every downstroke of a pedal, pull the handlebars back toward your navel! This dynamically jams the bike down on the rear tire contact patch and gives you great traction for an instant. If you time it right, and get the right body position, you can climb amazing slopes, slopes that you would be nervous about ridiing down. Ask Josh! A freind of mine crashed twice last week riding down a slope that a couple of us, using this technique, had just ridden up! Warning- this puts a strain on your upper back and neck (dont' ask me how I know).

    You can also move back a little, and intentionally lift the front wheel during power pulses to place it laterally so you don't have to steer. As everybody should know, steering on a steep climb leads to ignominy and death, or at least dirt.

  139. #339
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    someone said Ibis?

    posted before...enjoy

    pic 1, Ibis Trials Comp 20x20

    pic 2, Ibis, Kebo, R&E Montana, Edge, Raven

    John, any idea how many R&E Montanas were built?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by da'HOOV; 09-28-2012 at 09:28 PM.
    :)

  140. #340
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    So John, that's sort of like climbing out of the saddle while in the drops on a road bike isn't it?
    And its gotta keep chiropractors in business....

    Not to offend Josh, but I actually haven't watched him ride...nor will I....just does not have the right body parts to keep my attention...

    Sent from my DROID4 from another but equivalent time-space point on a differential manifold....
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  141. #341
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    So John,
    Have the following thoughts about your "trick" climbing technique and rear wheel size and climbing in general:

    Traction is driven fundamentally by two things: coefficient of friction between the two surface that are in contact, and the force that is normal to the two surfaces that are in contact.

    The largest force that can be applied on a bicycle is the weight of the rider and bike. The maximum force is when you are in a wheelie, i.e., all weight is on the rear tire. This of coarse is difficult for most people to control. This force is the same whether you are sitting on a seat or standing.

    As the hill you are trying to climb gets steeper, the normal force is reduced. In the limiting case, you cannot climb vertical surfaces (although Mr. McAskill seems to be able to roll up them quite well or unless you are taking LSD). This is because the force normal between the surfaces is zero.

    To move forward (uphill) you have to pedal. The amount of force applied to the surface to move you forward is the tangential force applied through the rear tire at the area of contact between the tire surface and the hill surface. This is proportional to the force of your body weight.

    The Energy expending going up the hill a fixed distance is merely equal to sum of the riders body weight plus the bicycles weight times the fixed distance that the two move up the hill.

    Your no seat technique seems to allow you to adjust the force (body weight and bike weight) applied to the rear tire to maximize the normal force while also maximizing the tangential force applied at the rear wheel through the gears and crank from the riders legs transferring at most his body weight.

    When the tangential force at the rear tire contact patch exceeds the normal force at the contact patch times the coefficient of friction..."Result? No makee. Crashee. Say hill is impossible, go home. "

    So coefficient of friction:
    Which will climb better a 20", 24", 26" or a 29"?
    It has been proven by many that the contact patch AREA is independent of the wheel diameter and is simply related to the force being applied and the pressure of the tire.
    What does change is the length and width of the contact area with wheel size so that the contact patch area stays constant.

    On loose surfaces, the tire tread design and the soil "strength" if you will, influence the coefficient of friction. Lower tire pressure increases the contact patch area and combined with the tread design, allow it to "bite" or pinch/compress the soil more.

    The only thing that a smaller wheel in the rear will help climbing better is shortening the chain stays to put more weight on the rear wheel without sacrificing front wheel control. I bet if you could put the cranks at the rear axle, you'd do it.

    So is the Edge design any better than say a 29er for climbing...certainly it is!
    Why: weight distribution and control of that distribution for balancing the normal force and the tangential force at the contact patch area.

    Are StrangeBikes with ultra-short chainstays any better than an Edge...damn straight they are!!!!

    Next we should discuss rolling off large logs and determine if 29" wheels have any advantage there...

    Sent from my DROID4 through a worm hole...I'm actually in Pennsylvania at the same time I'm in Washington...or New York...
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  142. #342
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    Yes we should have discussings on rolling off large logs or dicussions on just riding over them in general, and by the way we are having to cut down a tree in our backyard and I've taken advantage of it by taking sections of large branches and putting them in my driveway so that I have a nice little four log trials section, A little larger would be better but it's quite fun none the less, Oh and by the way after I played on those I went down to the before mentioned log I mangled my knee on and cleaned it several times, Had a very fun day...

  143. #343
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    Abaris, that's great except for one issue- you can get more than your total bike/body weight into the rear tire contact patch using dynamics. F = MA.

    This technique allows you to climb very steep stuff on normal chainstay bikes. It isn't "trick" - it is just physics, and out here, you either learn it or you walk up the steeper climbs...

  144. #344
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    So explain to us stupid people what M and A are.
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  145. #345
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    No stupid people here, just trials riders!

    If you want to jump into the air, you push hard against the ground (F) to accelerate (A) your M (mass) so that you can leave the ground. You push harder than your weight when you jump, and you exert a force on the ground greater than your weight when you land. The difference is ... dynamics (not the same as Dianetics). When you pull back on your bars, the bike tries to cock underneath you and rear up. It can't rear up easily because your mass is in the way, so it pushes up on you and down on the earth through the rear tire. Smoosh. For an instant, you can have 2x the normal force pushing the tire into the dirt, and thus, for that instant, you can transmit 2x the tractive force to accelerate or climb. You have to time that instant to coincide with the chain tension created by the pedal downstroke. And no, it doesn't hurt your back, but it makes it tired.

  146. #346
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    So you're hopping.....

    So if john weighs 190 lbs. And he can jump say 360mm, what was the initial acceleration?
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  147. #347
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    No, I'm cocking or rocking. Rear wheel never gets off the ground; front can. Enough with the equations, already- try it, it works.

    PS- That Ibis is beautiful! Scot Nicoll came up and rode one of my trials events in the early 80s, and I could never afford one of his lovely bikes. Sad. I think they were the best.

  148. #348
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    WOW! That was a lot of technical talk causing a deer in the head lights effect. Being a simple guy I stick with K.I.S.S. generally chanting to myself

    "This is my rifle, this is my gun. This one's for shooting, this ones for fun." All while grabbing myself inappropriately.

    Bob, don't worry it takes a lot more then that to offend me.
    I use to be lean & mean... Now I'm just an a$$hole!

  149. #349
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    John,
    I certainly never said I wouldn't try it. I'm sure I used similar techniques in my younger years. (Parenthetically
    , or perhaps heretically, unless the said person and bike leave the ground, the amount of force applied is F=M x g where g is the acceleration due to gravity).

    So Josh, I Guess you really are a Marine. But I'm not interested in your rifle and especially not your fun gun...

    I would like to see the StrangeBike12 and see the bike climb up the steeper parts of Dryer (so long as you don't touch your gun).


    Sent from my DROID4 using )
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  150. #350
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    Gunny Hartman is a MOTIVATOR!

    More Edge please.
    I use to be lean & mean... Now I'm just an a$$hole!

  151. #351
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    Raleigh "The Edge"-uploadfromtaptalk1349308579866.jpg

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  152. #352
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    That seat post looks dangerous! Bob are you going for extra traction utilizing your pedals? haha.. Next question, is The Edge going to be ready for Dryer tomorrow morning?
    I use to be lean & mean... Now I'm just an a$$hole!

  153. #353
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    So Bob, May I ask why you decided to go 20/20? Isn't that more suited to hopping style then rolling style? Where do you keep coming up with all these parts? Your garage must be like a candy store.

  154. #354
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    Josh,
    No. And yes, although only single speed. In any event, the trusty Cannondale is always ready to go.

    Scott,
    What your actually witnessing is the twilight zone....actually the parts come from two or three other bikes that are continually canabalized...

    Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
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  155. #355
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    Definitely the strangest bike I have ever ridden.

    Sent from my DROID4 at Victor mtb park.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Raleigh "The Edge"-uploadfromtaptalk1349364314716.jpg  

    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  156. #356
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    That is delightfully strange! Congratulations! Do you get puzzled looks?

  157. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    That is delightfully strange! Congratulations! Do you get puzzled looks?
    Thanks John.
    I would rather think of it as delightfully different as it has a seat. No seat->Strange. Small wheels/larger frame ->Different.

    Got some puzzled looks but really I looked puzzled riding it. IT REALLY IS NOT A DOWNHILL BIKE. And its not really a mod class trials bike. It rides rough....oh those little wheels are STIFF.

    I just need to invest in some wheels.

    Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
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  158. #358
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    Gyroscopic forces from big wheels really do have a stabilizing effect, don't they? You also have to keep your weight back and the power on over little trippy obstacles, because the small wheels want to come to an abrupt halt when bigger wheels would roll right over. But in rock gardens, they are very handy! And on wet rock, if you have much of it, I bet those sticky tires feel REAL good.

    What the heck fork is that?!?

  159. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeBike13 View Post
    Gyroscopic forces from big wheels really do have a stabilizing effect, don't they? You also have to keep your weight back and the power on over little trippy obstacles, because the small wheels want to come to an abrupt halt when bigger wheels would roll right over. But in rock gardens, they are very handy! And on wet rock, if you have much of it, I bet those sticky tires feel REAL good.

    What the heck fork is that?!?
    Actually, is was the "twitchyness" of the front end when turning going downhill.
    I'm not sure the difference in gyroscopic forces actually make much difference as slow as I go, but perhaps they do. Maybe so and I was able to turn the wheel easier.

    The fork is from CarbonCycles.CC :: Components :: Gallery called an eXotic Rigid Al for a 700c / 29er wheels and 465mm axle to crown distance to replace 100mm travel suspension forks (if you can imagine doing that). This picks up the front end a bit. The fork offset is 42mm and on the modified edge frame the head angle measured around 73 degrees. Maybe this makes for a small trail distance and maybe twitchy handling.

    (It also happen that a 700c fork with vbrake mounts has the mounts in the right place for a V-brake adapter to work with 20" wheels.)

    It is just different.
    There was no problem just lofting the front end over stuff; it is really light in the front end.
    The fork is light and the 20" wheel is light compared to the 26 and the difference makes this a wheelie machine.
    In fact, with a seat you can act like a jack-in-the-box and easily loft the front end while seated and then spring up off the seat while pulling the handle bars up and the rear wheel just follows.
    Probably if the obstacles where greater than 10" then the rear might want to come to an abrupt halt after you have lofted the front wheel over, which means you interact in a painful way with the handlebar stem. But really, a 24" wheel would "stall" just about as fast. A 26" might keep going but it too would let you know it was there.

    The tires work on roots and rocks wet or dry. Softer and stickyer. but I haven;t really ridden it that much.

    You should get your little 20" Strangebike back in to rolling order. Then we could meet up at Moab Slickrock and have a blast!!!
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  160. #360
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    Hope it is ok to post here as this represents one of Mr. Olson's designs.

  161. #361
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    Found this old Cannondale SM 500 in my neighbors field

  162. #362
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    I am fairly certain it is a 1984, 1st generation SM 500 at it had the old side pull BMX brake and the sleaved seatpost with the SR La Prade BMX post.

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    OK, here come the photos, had to get my post count to 10 before I could add pics

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    Here it is as found in the field, 24" rear wheel and 13" bottom bracket = SWEETNESS

    <a href="https://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n595/norge69/?action=view&amp;current=IMG_0571.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n595/norge69/IMG_0571.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

    Here is the frame torn down:

    <a href="https://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n595/norge69/?action=view&amp;current=IMG_0579.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n595/norge69/IMG_0579.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

    I sprayed the frame with aircraft paint stripper from NAPA, hated to waste the old paint but it was shot:

    <a href="https://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n595/norge69/?action=view&amp;current=IMG_0651.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n595/norge69/IMG_0651.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

    And here is the stripped frame:

    <a href="https://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n595/norge69/?action=view&amp;current=IMG_0653.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n595/norge69/IMG_0653.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

  165. #365
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    Awesome! Another resurrection. You should start a build or rebuild thread for it.
    I use to be lean & mean... Now I'm just an a$$hole!

  166. #366
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    Here's the old girl built back up. Kind of a funky fork but 1" steerer tube forks are getting awfully hard to find. Painted the frame with spray on bed liner from NAPA. Have had pretty good luck with this stuff and it's easy to touch up. Always wanted one of these old 24-26 Cdales and this is now my primary elk hunting rig.

    <a href="https://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n595/norge69/?action=view&amp;current=IMG_0716.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n595/norge69/IMG_0716.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

    Wanted to get away from the BMX style side pull rear brake and tracked down a first generation Odysee Pitbull BMX Rollercam. Works great considering there are no brake studs in the seat or chain stays:

    <a href="https://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n595/norge69/?action=view&amp;current=IMG_0717.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n595/norge69/IMG_0717.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

  167. #367
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    Rear wheel is still the original, with a specialized hub and Sun - Cannondale rim. Have an old WTB Geaseguard that I want to get reset from 135 to 130mm spacing and have a new rear wheel built up. Still remember my first book on mountain biking back in mid to late 80's that had several photos of Mr. Olsen riding his Raven over logs and drops basically right through the forest. Always remember back to those pictures and the idea of a "deep woods" bike for the Northwest.

  168. #368
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    That brings back memories! Nice job! Good save. Cannondale gave me two of these for working on the design (I didn't really design it- I sent them drawings and suggestions, but they did a lot of their own stuff), but I guess I sold/traded them away in the 80s. Wish I had one now!

  169. #369
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    Very Nice.
    That looks like an eXotic Fork!!

    I always wanted one of those.
    and an Edge.
    and an Ibis Mt. Trials.
    and an Ibis Trials Pro (or Comp)
    .
    .
    .
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  170. #370
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    Hey Guys, So I see we have a new member, Welcome aboard treebeard,You'll find us to be a freindly bunch, Nice Cannondale, You did a great job on the rebuild, Always wanted a 26/24 cannondale, So Bob how do you like your latest edge creation? I wish maxxis made creepy crawlers in 26 inch and 24 inch sizes, I really like the looks of that tread pattern.

  171. #371
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    Hey Guys, Can anybody tell me which is the better quality freewheel, a 6 speed shimano MF-TZ20 or a 6 speed shimano HG22? Thanks Scott

  172. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    So Bob how do you like your latest edge creation? I wish maxxis made creepy crawlers in 26 inch and 24 inch sizes, I really like the looks of that tread pattern.
    20" tires are extremely sensitive to tire pressure...
    The 20/20 setup, although temporary, handled quite well and seemed lighter. I made a change to the frontend and is now a 24". That's right, a 24/20 that is very similar to an ibis trials comp. BB height roughly 12" and a ~73 degree head angle. However, I notice that my pedals where hitting stuff on the trail, so maybe not an ideal trail bike. But I've ordered an axle for my edge 24" rear wheel so soon it'll be back to normal 26/24 edge.
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  173. #373
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    So Bob, Would you please post a couple pictures of it while it's still a 24/20? I'd like to see how it looks before you change it again, How about some shorter crank arms, say maybe 155mm's.

  174. #374
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    Scott,
    Are you a closet HOPPER?
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  175. #375
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    Hey Buffalo Bob,You said that with the 24/20 setup your pedals were hitting stuff on the trails so maybe shorter crankarms would help, I don't hop in the closet to likely to hit my head, So anybody know which of those frewheels I asked about is better?

  176. #376
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    Scott, I'm sorry but I don't remember which freewheels used to last more than a week... I know we had found some that lived maybe 6 months, or at least a summer, and some that broke RIGHT NOW. But then, in 2004 I broke a box of 12 Shimano freehub bodies in 3 months, so it's not like they've progressed! If you are strong and really riding the steeps, try to find a pre-disc Hugi or Chris King. And, oh, paint Suntour on it.

  177. #377
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    Thanks John, Got an old about 1988 diamondback apex off of craigslist that I want to fix up and give to one of my son's for christmas or his birthday in feburary depending on how long it takes me to go through it and I want to replace the freewheel, It's an 18 speed and I wanted to replace it with whichever was a better quality freewheel, These two are still easily available brand new. Thanks John.

  178. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    Hey Buffalo Bob,You said that with the 24/20 setup your pedals were hitting stuff on the trails so maybe shorter crankarms would help,
    Where in the world would I get those?
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  179. #379
    hmmm.
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    I've been looking for one of these bikes for a while. Anyone know where I could find a good original Edge for sale?

  180. #380
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    Hi, David,

    You might try a "wanted to buy" ad in MTBR's classified section! That or just Uncle Google. They aren't impossible to find, but they aren't common either. Somebody on this group may have one for sale, too.

  181. #381
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    Hey David9999999,I bought one from da/'Hoov back when he was stan4bikes on this forum quite some time back, So da/'Hoov can you help david out? He seems to have excellent taste in bikes?

  182. #382
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    Oh buy the way, Happy Halloween Everybody!!!

  183. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    Hey David9999999,I bought one from da/'Hoov back when he was stan4bikes on this forum quite some time back, So da/'Hoov can you help david out? He seems to have excellent taste in bikes?
    now I'm gonna get in trouble again ;-)...nobody on this forum has EVER bought anything from me! No one has EVER contacted me about selling anything I've posted! ohhh..except for maybe a few members including a couple Illuminati and maybe a Moderator or two :-)
    :)

  184. #384
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    Sorry if I did anything wrong or got anyone in trouble, as this was not my intention.

  185. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    Sorry if I did anything wrong or got anyone in trouble, as this was not my intention.
    That's okay, Scott. It's fine. da'Hoov just has an attitude problem. Don't mind him.

  186. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    Sorry if I did anything wrong or got anyone in trouble, as this was not my intention.
    no problem Scott..all in fun :-)

    [QUOTE=girlonbike]That's okay, Scott. It's fine. da'Hoov just has an attitude problem. Don't mind him.[QUOTE]

    Thanx for the kind words Madamn Moderator
    :)

  187. #387
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    So Bob, How are you and your family holding up against the storms back there? Everybody okay? Hey David,keep an eye out on craigslist I've seen them there every once in a while, Good Luck, I'll keep an eye out for you.

  188. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott murray View Post
    so bob, how are you and your family holding up against the storms back there? Everybody okay?
    aok.
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  189. #389
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    So John, Did you ever use biopace chainrings back in the days and if so what did you think of them? I used to have them on an old ross Mt. Hood, and this diamondback I got had them on it so I stole the 28 tooth granny ring and put it on one of my Edges and I am looking around for a 26 tooth for the other, so far I have found two new ones on ebay but one is 90.00 and the other is 60.00 bucks, talk about being greedy, anyways I always liked them, still do so what do you think? Bob I'm glad to here you and your family are okay, anything new going on with you or just surviving the storms?

  190. #390
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    Scott, I did get a lot of time on biopace rings back in the day, and I really disliked them. The physics is that power is the integral of force times velocity, integrated around the whole stroke. The BP rings speed your legs up on the powerful downstroke, and slow them up at TDC and BDC when you aren't making any power anyway. They really worked on long aerobic pulls, BUT... they stalled you out on the top or bottom when you were trying to climb or clean a difficult section. In fact, for that use, they needed to be 90 degrees the other way, so that you got through the dead band quicker, not slower. I just rode some the other day on a bike I was repairing, and UGH. I think they reflected how most folks ride, but they were really bad for agressive offroad riders who climb challenging stuff. Sorry! Just my opinion, but I'd put 'em on a cruising bike and not on a trials-ish bike.

  191. #391
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    Oh well, I guess it's back to the roundies for me, Besides roundies will give me more gearing choices, thanks for the physics lesson, I guess this means I owe you another coffee.

  192. #392
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    So John, There is a tab on the chainring that when you mount it the tab is supposed to be behind the crankarm what if I just mounted it 90 degrees off from that would it work or just take it off?

  193. #393
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    I don't remember if you can just rotate them or not. Seems like I remember some problem with that, but you could try it. Maybe it was the 5 bolts back then- you couldn't get the oval in the right orientation (very low at top and bottom of stroke). My buddy may be willing to swap his good condition ones for some good round rings... I could ask him.

  194. #394
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    You can, because when I first mounted it I had the mounting tab 90 degrees off, I was on the net on sheldon browns site and it mentioned the tab and where it's supposed to be when mounted and I had it off by 90 degrees, (how do you like that) My question is if I do that would it work like you were saying get you through the dead spots quicker and improve you through the power points or just take it off, When I had it mounted wrong and I first rode around on it it felt like it was slipping like when you first put on a freewheel and it tightens as you pedal around, Does that make any sense?

  195. #395
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    My mistake when I mounted it the first time it was 180 degrees off not 90 degrees, I was just out looking at my bike and realized it, so mounted correctly when the cranks are horizontal the chainring is narrow and when the crank arms are vertical the chainring is wide and for it to work the way you say it should it should be just the opposite, correct? All this thinking is giving my a headache I think I'll just put my round one back on, Sorry for wasting your time...

  196. #396
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    Scott, think of it like gear ratio- for a given speed along the ground, if you are in a lower gear, your feet are moving faster. So if the chainring is small at the top, you are in a lower gear ratio at that point. So to avoid being stalled at TDC, you want the 'ring to be smaller when the cranks are up and down.

    I don't think I ever tried this (i just dumped them and put round rings on), but I'm sure it would work, and it might even be better than round.

  197. #397
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    How do you rotate the rings 90 degrees on a 5 bolt crank? I guess you'd be close at 72 degrees by rotating the ring by 1 bolt hole.
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Mark Twain

  198. #398
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    Hey John, You explained that in a really easy to understand way, makes total sense to me, Now why do you suppose when they designed them they didn't realize that as obvious as it is explained the way you explained it? Guess I owe you another coffee huh, Man there starting to add up aren't they? Thanks

  199. #399
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    Well I guess since I'm going to change back to a round ring anyways I'll try rotating the biopace to see how close I can get it just to see.

  200. #400
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    So John how about this,Copy the biopace design more or less, make it for a four bolt crank so you could mount it so the chainring is narrowest when the crank arms are vertical and name it the Olsen OvalTech Power Enhancing Chainring?

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