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  1. #1
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    New year, new project (WTB content)

    Since I'm not using my Phoenix as my primary trail bike these days, I was considering other uses for it and came up with the idea to convert it to country and/or fire road duty. I started thinking I'd just slap a set of semi slicks on it, but ended up thinking that it'd work a lot better if I replaced the dodgy old Bomber fork with a rigid fork, and switched to a set of drop bars.

    So far, I've come up with the following questions, and hoped I could get some help here, from those who have been down this road before.

    Where would I come up with a fork to fit the (suspension adjusted) frame? (yep I know, get a Potts, and I will if you float me an interest-free loan). Can someone tell me the critical measurements I need to match to preserve the bike's handling and geometry?

    I'll probably go with a Salsa Woodchipper bar, so I'll need a set of V-brake compatible levers and shifters for it. What's the hot setup there?

    I'll need to swap the stem out for a high rise part, right? The current stem is a 120 x 7*, and the bar has little if any back sweep. Can I use that info to figure out the stem rise and reach I'll need?

    I guess I should also ask if I'm nuts for considering this too. The bike works great in the woods, but will changing it around like this change it into a great "wandering around" style ride?

    I'm looking forward to your input on this. Thanks in advance.
    Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised

  2. #2
    Master of the Face Plant
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    Yes you are nuts. How could you start a thread about a Phoenix without pics? Very wrong in my opinion.

    Seriously though I can't help you with most of those questions but it you need a fork built with specific measurements Tom T. at TET cycles is excellent and not insanely priced. He did a fillet brazed fork for me for $170 and it is perfect.
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  3. #3
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Well, I can speak to the drop bar/stem part of your question. A Woodchipper has approximately 95mm of drop. You would probably want your drop extensions at the same level as your grips are currently, assuming you are happy with your hands being there now.

    Okay, so measuring from the centerline of your handle bar straight up 95mm will give you the centerline where the clamp of your theoretical stem should be. Using this imaginary point in the air above your stem, you will get an idea of what rise angle you are looking at for a stem. It is quite likely you will be needing a custom stem.

    Also, keeping in mind that the Woodchipper has a ton of extension, 13.6cm according to my measurement from the bottom of the bend in the drop to the end of the handlebar, your reach on the stem may need to be adjusted as well. (Of course, you can always hacksaw off the extension to taste as well)

    It's also worth noting that the length of this extension may actually shorten your cockpit length rather than lengthen it, as is the current perception when going to a drop bar on an mtb. At least some of the available positions would result in this.

    As for brake levers, the Cane Creek/Tektro levers with the standard cable pull are the hot lever set up. (Assuming you are not going to use integrated brake/shift levers) Of course, any vinatge aero lever would also suffice with cantilever brakes. The Cane Creek/Tektro levers have a bit better shaped, longer blade that I find is a better fit on off road drop set ups.

    Hope that helps!
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandmangts
    Yes you are nuts. How could you start a thread about a Phoenix without pics? Very wrong in my opinion.
    It's been seen before, but OK


    Tom T. at TET cycles is excellent and not insanely priced. He did a fillet brazed fork for me for $170 and it is perfect.
    That is a good price. I see Steve P lists Type 2's on his site, but no pricing. Does anyone know? I'd expect $300 or so?

    I've found Ultegra 8 barcon shifters - anyone know if those will work with an XT derailleur?
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by wv_bob
    ...I see Steve P lists Type 2's on his site, but no pricing. Does anyone know? I'd expect $300 or so?...
    T2's are gone now (out of crowns). And they were $300 fifteen years ago... much more at the end (last year).

  6. #6
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Ultegra bar end shifters should work just fine with an XT rear derailluer.
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  7. #7
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    Salsa CroMoto and Kona Project 2 are both pretty nice, reasonably priced, suspension corrected and will preserve the "look" in the absence of a Type II. Tektro RL520 levers are what I use with discs and they'll work fine with vees as well, these are the same as Cane Creek Drop V levers at half the price. Good luck finding a Woodchipper right now although Web Cyclery shows them as available on their site.

    You should be able to bring this in under $200 bucks, closer to $150 if you go with the Project 2.

    Truly a wealth of useless information.


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  8. #8
    those are Rollercams...
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    Quote Originally Posted by halaburt
    T2's are gone now (out of crowns). And they were $300 fifteen years ago... much more at the end (last year).
    Don't you have enough?

    Truly a wealth of useless information.


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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by halaburt
    T2's are gone now (out of crowns). And they were $300 fifteen years ago... much more at the end (last year).
    Just over $500.

  10. #10
    Relax. I'm a pro.
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    Leave it as is and make it your primary bike again--that's my advice.

  11. #11
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    salsa cro moto fork but teh old ones made to emulate 80mm travel forks. or P2 Kona.
    salsa 120/40 stem and their drop bar.
    you could get a surly 1x1 fork as well...

    either that or you sell me that frame and end your misery.
    WTB: Bomber Z2 1 1/8 steerer, in good to excellent shape OR bomber rebuild kit.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    As for brake levers, the Cane Creek/Tektro levers with the standard cable pull are the hot lever set up. (Assuming you are not going to use integrated brake/shift levers) Of course, any vinatge aero lever would also suffice with cantilever brakes. The Cane Creek/Tektro levers have a bit better shaped, longer blade that I find is a better fit on off road drop set ups.

    Hope that helps!
    Sorry to jump on the thread here but I'm thinking of putting a Woodchipper on my Bianchi Axis CX bike. I have Shimano 105 integrated brake/shifters. Any comments on how they would work with the Woodchipper?

    Eagerly awaiting your detailed Woodchipper review.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by colker1
    either that or you sell me that frame and end your misery.
    When you see my Phoenix for sale, you can be sure I'm either desperately unemployed, or dying. Doubtful you'd see it then, because I've promised first dibs to another guy already

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad
    Leave it as is and make it your primary bike again--that's my advice.
    I hear you, but right now I've got a new 29er to ride with a 100mm fork and disc brakes. It's hard to say no to that when it comes to trail riding. At least give me credit for thinking to do something sort of interesting with the Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by WTB-rider
    You should be able to bring this in under $200 bucks, closer to $150 if you go with the Project 2.
    $279 delivered from universalcycles.com with the VIP10 coupon. Salsa fork, stem, bar, and tape, with Ultegra shifters, Tektro levers, and Jagwire cables. The Woodchipper isn't available in 31.8, and neither is the 40 degree stem, so that's kind of a bummer. But they're listed that way on Salsa's site, so they're coming.
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  14. #14
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonno
    Sorry to jump on the thread here but I'm thinking of putting a Woodchipper on my Bianchi Axis CX bike. I have Shimano 105 integrated brake/shifters. Any comments on how they would work with the Woodchipper?

    Eagerly awaiting your detailed Woodchipper review.
    That's the great thing about the Woodchipper design. The drop from top to extension is nearly vertical. STI users should get on swimmingly with these.
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  15. #15
    Mtn Biker Machinist
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    Salsa fork price?

    I think making the Phoenix a drop bar bike is a great plan, seems like it will fit the look nicely, and make for a unique ride

    You could get the Kona (410 or 440 A-C) or Salsa (425 or 445 A-C) fork and all the other stuff for less @ bikeman.com.

    http://www.bikeman.com/store/merchant.mvc?

    http://www.bikeman.com/store/merchant.mvc?

    Be sure to measure from the front axle to the fork crown bearing race to get the right length fork. My Marzocchi
    Z2 is 440mm axle to crown.

    Unfortunately looks like the woodchipper is out of stock @ Bikeman, except in 25.4mm clamp 42cm width. Looks like the 31.8 are out of stock everywhere. Both 25.4 clamp are in stock @ Webcyclery (I just ordered one today! ):

    http://www.webcyclery.com/product.ph...cat=329&page=1

    I think you will have better luck finding the right stem in 25.4 clamp, the selection of high rise 31.8 clamp seems to be pretty limited.

    In the end, shop where you like. I think you will be pleased with the drop bar conversion.
    frog
    Last edited by 1 cog frog; 01-02-2010 at 11:08 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 cog frog
    I think making the Phoenix a drop bar bike is a great plan, seems like it will fit the look nicely, and make for a unique ride

    You could get the Kona (410 or 440 A-C) or Salsa (425 or 445 A-C) fork and all the other stuff for less @ bikeman.com.


    Quote Originally Posted by 1 cog frog
    Be sure to measure from the front axle to the fork crown bearing race to get the right length fork.
    I'm going at it the other way, and matching up with the frame. I've looked at the on-line blurry catalogs and haven't seen the length mentioned. My Z2 is an old Bomber BAM, so I'm leaning toward the shorter fork as a replacement. Based on the length differentials, I figured the rigid to suspension translation was 410 to replace a 65mm susp fork, 425 for 80, and 440/445 for 100mm.

    The 425mm choice is the Salsa, it weighs 80 g more, has a disc mount, and costs about $23 more. The 410 is a Kona, with no disc mount available in that size. The question I keep coming back to is, was my bike built for a 65mm or 80mm fork, and would 15mm make a difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1 cog frog
    I think you will have better luck finding the right stem in 25.4 clamp, the selection of high rise 31.8 clamp seems to be pretty limited.
    I also read a Woodchipper thread in the Salsa forum where Guitar Ted suggested the damping effect of the smaller dia bar and the different alloys used would be a good thing.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by wv_bob



    I'm going at it the other way, and matching up with the frame. I've looked at the on-line blurry catalogs and haven't seen the length mentioned. My Z2 is an old Bomber BAM, so I'm leaning toward the shorter fork as a replacement. Based on the length differentials, I figured the rigid to suspension translation was 410 to replace a 65mm susp fork, 425 for 80, and 440/445 for 100mm.

    The 425mm choice is the Salsa, it weighs 80 g more, has a disc mount, and costs about $23 more. The 410 is a Kona, with no disc mount available in that size. The question I keep coming back to is, was my bike built for a 65mm or 80mm fork, and would 15mm make a difference?


    I also read a Woodchipper thread in the Salsa forum where Guitar Ted suggested the damping effect of the smaller dia bar and the different alloys used would be a good thing.
    you want the shorter fork. 410. till 99/00 if i recall correctly most frames were built around the 63mm standard.
    i would also get a pair of flat pedals. maybe old suntour xc comps.

    PS: check the rake on those forks. Rake may affect handling more than 10mm in length.
    Last edited by colker1; 01-03-2010 at 10:25 AM.
    WTB: Bomber Z2 1 1/8 steerer, in good to excellent shape OR bomber rebuild kit.

  18. #18
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    As best as I can tell from the blurry online catalog, the frame's built for 1-1/2" rake, or 38mm. The Salsa fork is advertising 41mm rake. I haven't found the rake for the P2 yet. The best I've been able to find so far is a retrobike thread saying it's either 1.54" or 1.74", depending on what Kona bike it came on. Nothing found for the aftermarket fork, so I posted in the Kona forum to see if I can get an answer there.

    I just downloaded a neat CAD program (www.emachineshop.com) to figure out what stem length I need to maintain my bar height It's always easier for me to draw the angles than it is to remember how to do the math. From that, a 135x40 stem will raise the bar about 72mm and bring it back about 16mm as compared to the current 120x7 stem. That gets me close to the 95mm difference noted earlier by Guitar Ted.
    Last edited by wv_bob; 01-03-2010 at 12:42 PM.
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  19. #19
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    Since my previous post I revisited the Phoenix thread and found a magazine review from 94 that reports a 1.75" offset for the Type 2 fork. That's a bit more even than the Salsa. But they also complained about wheel flop and Mark Slate agreed it could the the increased offset.

    What are the chances that the frame would've changed to accept more offset between 94 and 95? Slim to none?

    I'm starting to get the feeling that the longer Salsa fork, with possibly even more offset than the Kona, would "chopper it out" too much. At the least, if the Kona turns out to have the same offset as the Salsa, the shorter length would work to mitigate the extra offset.
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  20. #20
    those are Rollercams...
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    Quote Originally Posted by wv_bob

    $279 delivered from universalcycles.com with the VIP10 coupon. Salsa fork, stem, bar, and tape, with Ultegra shifters, Tektro levers, and Jagwire cables. The Woodchipper isn't available in 31.8, and neither is the 40 degree stem, so that's kind of a bummer. But they're listed that way on Salsa's site, so they're coming.
    Sorry, thought you already had the shifters.

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  21. #21
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    NP, I got the price whittled down ever farther now I'm ready to press the button(s) as soon as I decide on a fork
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  22. #22
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    So, what's on your bike now, a Bomber? What is the A-C when you factor in sag, something like 415mm? How much offset does that fork have? Do you like how it rides, disregarding the suspension element? Maybe consider those items to get you in the right neighborhood.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by wv_bob
    Since my previous post I revisited the Phoenix thread and found a magazine review from 94 that reports a 1.75" offset for the Type 2 fork. That's a bit more even than the Salsa. But they also complained about wheel flop and Mark Slate agreed it could the the increased offset.

    What are the chances that the frame would've changed to accept more offset between 94 and 95? Slim to none?

    I'm starting to get the feeling that the longer Salsa fork, with possibly even more offset than the Kona, would "chopper it out" too much. At the least, if the Kona turns out to have the same offset as the Salsa, the shorter length would work to mitigate the extra offset.
    kona and the 120/40 salsa stem. don't cut the fork short. use the extended steerer to raise the bars. leave top of bars 1in taller than seat. i bet my $ it will give better handling than the 135mm stem.
    WTB: Bomber Z2 1 1/8 steerer, in good to excellent shape OR bomber rebuild kit.

  24. #24
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Just for your reference, here are the Woodchippers. 25.4mm clamp models in 42cm and 46cm. The thing to keep in mind is that Salsa is measuring these center to center from the drop, not to the tips of the swept extensions.

    That makes the 42cm wider than you think with your hands in the drops. Probably an effective 44cm bar.

    For instance, the 46cm from the end of the extension on one side across to the other end of the opposite extension measures a whopping 66cm. (A Midge Bar is 58cm) A 42cm Woodchipper would easily be as wide as a Midge bar.

    Just for kicks here is my report comparing Midge, Gary, and Woodchippers bars: http://twentynineinches.com/2010/01/...-a-comparison/

    Hope that helps.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by IF52
    So, what's on your bike now, a Bomber? What is the A-C when you factor in sag, something like 415mm? How much offset does that fork have? Do you like how it rides, disregarding the suspension element? Maybe consider those items to get you in the right neighborhood.
    Per the manual, A-C is 432.5, with 75mm of travel. The offset isn't mentioned, but weren't the mfrs all standardized on 1-1/2" back then?

    I'm not sure how accurate the sag measurement's going to be due to the cold's affect on the oil - but by measuring it with a zip tie on the stanchion there's 1/2" of sag with me on the bike. So that leaves me with the sagged A-C at about 420. Right between the Kona and the Salsa - why am I not surprised?

    Yeah, I like how the bike rides. It's been said here before, the best thing you can say about a Phoenix's handling is nothing. It's so stable and predictable, it's almost eerie.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by colker1
    kona and the 120/40 salsa stem. don't cut the fork short. use the extended steerer to raise the bars. leave top of bars 1in taller than seat. i bet my $ it will give better handling than the 135mm stem.
    You're probably right, thanks for pointing out that I hadn't factored in slowing the handling down with the longer stem.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    For instance, the 46cm from the end of the extension on one side across to the other end of the opposite extension measures a whopping 66cm
    That's almost as wide as the bar on my 29er. I can just barely get that one between some of the trees here.

    BTW, I just noticed the stock at Universal on the 46cm Woodchippers has gone down by 2 since I started this thread
    Last edited by wv_bob; 01-03-2010 at 03:46 PM.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by wv_bob
    That is a good price. I see Steve P lists Type 2's on his site, but no pricing. Does anyone know? I'd expect $300 or so?
    Steve quoted me $475 for one in late 08 just for reference. He says he's looking to come out with some new type of fork currently.

  29. #29
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    Right or wrong, it's done - pictures maybe next weekend.
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  30. #30
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    I'm probably late to the game to help at all - but does this image help?

  31. #31
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    Nice - you should post that in the Phoenix thread too. There's photos of a few dropbar rides in that thread already.
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  32. #32
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    The Kona fork just showed up - Nice

    Can someone describe a relatively easy way to measure a fork's offset without frame building tools?
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  33. #33
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    Using a builders square. align the forks steerer with one end
    (laying the steerer flat on one plane) of it and measure to the center of the axle with the other. Take the measurement and subtract 1/2 the outer diameter of the steerer. Make sense?

    S
    Quote Originally Posted by wv_bob
    The Kona fork just showed up - Nice

    Can someone describe a relatively easy way to measure a fork's offset without frame building tools?

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ckevlar
    Using a builders square. align the forks steerer with one end
    (laying the steerer flat on one plane) of it and measure to the center of the axle with the other. Take the measurement and subtract 1/2 the outer diameter of the steerer. Make sense?

    S
    I'm having a time figuring out how to hold the fork by the square to where I know the steerer is aligned with it, and the rest of the fork not messing up my measurement. If I eyeball it, I'll be wrong, no doubt about that. I'll see what I can figure out when I get to doing the measuring though.

    I was thinking about finding a stick of copper pipe, making sure it's straight, then sliding that inside the steerer, measuring from that, and adjusting for 1/2 the ID of the steerer.

    I'll figure something out - it might be a day or two since we're having sort of a blizzard out right now, and it's cold as well digger's arse out in my unheated garage.
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  35. #35
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    New question here.

    The last batch of parts for this project just arrived, but I have a question. Hopefully one of the bar-end users can answer it.

    The barcons I ordered are Shimano Ultegra BS64 Bar End Shifter. What I received is in a box marked "SL-BS50-8 8-speed Shifting Lever for Dura-Ace"

    Obviously I'm OK with getting Dura-Ace instead of Ultegra, but will a Dura-Ace shifter work with an 8-speed XT rear derailleur?

    Thanks in advance
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  36. #36
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    Not looking good here - from this url
    "Note: the SL-BS50-8 is a different shifter which was designed to be used with 8sp Dura-Ace ONLY."
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  37. #37
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    Enough of this i want a spy shot of the bike with the fork on it. Which kona did you go with?

    Quote Originally Posted by wv_bob
    Not looking good here - from this url
    "Note: the SL-BS50-8 is a different shifter which was designed to be used with 8sp Dura-Ace ONLY."

  38. #38
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    I went with the 410mm P2. I tried measuring the offset on it as best I could and it looks like 1.5"

    I haven't installed it yet because I was waiting on the new bar and stem to figure the steerer tube length before driving the star nut in.

    I just got off the phone with Shimano, these shifters won't work, so back they go, another week bites the dust.
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  39. #39
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    Photo taken tonight with the P2 fork and the old bar/stem
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New year, new project (WTB content)-img_5244_sml.jpg  

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  40. #40
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    And one with the woodchipper set with the hook of the bar at the same level as the old riser bar. It doesn't look that way in the photo, but the tape rule says otherwise.
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  41. #41
    artistic...
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    i would raise those bars a spacer or 2 more.
    WTB: Bomber Z2 1 1/8 steerer, in good to excellent shape OR bomber rebuild kit.

  42. #42
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    The hook or the hoods?
    Somec is like the digital Zunow
    And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5h3y0a9AU

  43. #43
    artistic...
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    and i would lower those brake levers considerably.
    WTB: Bomber Z2 1 1/8 steerer, in good to excellent shape OR bomber rebuild kit.

  44. #44
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    Thanks for the inputs.

    The levers are set so I can just grab the bottom of the lever with my hands in the hooks. But now that I've looked at mine next to <url=https://twentynineinches.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/xmas2009-010.jpg>the Fargo on G-T's site</url>, I see they're way too high. That'll be fixed.

    I was thinking of raising the bars too, if only to minimize the chance of whacking the top tube. But I don't have far to go on the steerer. I'll do some spacer juggling to find out.

    Nobody sees a problem with that much steerer between the headset and stem? Seems like an awful long lever to me.

    I also found out that the shifters are fine, turns out they're mis-boxed. While the box says Dura-Ace, there's a tiny sticker on the shifter that says they're not Dura-Ace compatible. So I'm good to go on that front. I doubt I'll ride it this weekend though. The headset's kind of grindy, so I ordered a new one and will probably hold off on riding until that's installed.
    Last edited by wv_bob; 01-16-2010 at 07:43 AM.
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  45. #45
    artistic...
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    raise those bars at least 1/2 in.
    WTB: Bomber Z2 1 1/8 steerer, in good to excellent shape OR bomber rebuild kit.

  46. #46
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    As others have said, raise the bars as high as you can on the steerer as pictured. You can always lower the stem and ct down as necessary, but it's hard to add it back on. Ask me how I know....
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  47. #47
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    Bars + 10mm, levers reset

    Please sanity check me before I start cutting cable housing ... and yeah, I noticed the stem front cap is upside down
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  48. #48
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    Looks gtg from my end. Cut and install the cables then go for a few gentle rides before wrapping the bars. That will let you fine tune things without having to undo the wrap a bunch.
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  49. #49
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    Steerer length?

    That bike looks great with drops! The levers look (and I'm sure feel) much better too! How much steerer do you have under the stem? Looks like a lot.

    I know Benwitt and Guitar Ted have set up multiple drop bar bikes, so my question is, how much steerer is safe? I see several inches on WV Bob's Phoenix, is that safe, is it pushing the limit of sanity? The bike I am setting up has 55mm of spacers as it sits, and the bar still needs to be up at least another 25mm. I am probably going to get a new fork with uncut steerer, just so I can push the stem up more.

    Is it putting too much stress on the headset and frame to have that much lever above the headset? I am going to machine a one piece spacer once I get the height dialed, just to give a little more support.

    Sorry for the thread hijack! Seemed like a good place to ask the ? that has been bugging me for a while!

    More pics of the Phoenix once you get it all dialed, that one is going in the Drop Bar pic folder for my screensaver!

    frog

    frog

  50. #50
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    I think that the steerer above the headset would put far less stress on the bike than the much longer lever. (fork,) under it. Especially on a bike designed for a suspension fork, I don't see any issues with a longer exposed steer tube. There may be some more torsional flex that would be perceived as less precise steering, but I am not worried about any of my bikes.
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  51. #51
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    For the sake of redundancy, here it is again with the stem up to where it's even with the top of the steerer. The thin spacer is on top just to get some adjustment. Added the shifters too.

    I'm wondering the same as frog, that's a heckuva stack of spacers, how much is too much?
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  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    There may be some more torsional flex that would be perceived as less precise steering
    After going from the old Bomber to this rigid fork, I don't think I'm going to find less precise steering

    Now to go get the brakes and shifters working and see how it feels.
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  53. #53
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    I don't think the tall stack will give you any issues at all. Looks great. Cable it up and run with it. I really like the bike with drops on it.

    I wish I could find a Phoenix in my size, they are awesome bikes.
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  54. #54
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    I agree,

    Benwitt is right, even with that many spacers, it looks perfect. I think the look of the drops and spacers fits the bike, not sure why, it just looks spot on!

    Curious how you will like the barend shifters with the woodchippers. There is a lot of bar past the drops. Looks like it may be a bit of a reach to shift.

    again, I really dig the bike, it looks way better with drops than before IMHO!

    frog

  55. #55
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    Curious how you will like the barend shifters with the woodchippers. There is a lot of bar past the drops. Looks like it may be a bit of a reach to shift.
    I've run my Fargo with that set up for months. It's not an issue at all, and the added length is awesome!
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  56. #56
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    you may ride it in the woods and like it better than your primo bike.
    hahahah!!
    WTB: Bomber Z2 1 1/8 steerer, in good to excellent shape OR bomber rebuild kit.

  57. #57
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    I can't speak to the barcons on the woodchippers because I've never used barcons before, so it all feels weird to me. I didn't have any problems shifting it though, and it didn't seem like a long haul to get back to the shifters, for what that's worth.

    It's made about a 4 mile maiden journey around the neighborhood with no problems other than the worn out headset acting up, but that'll be gone mid-week. I think if I decide to stay with it long-term, I'm going to need a custom stem to get a little more reach and to get rid of all those spacers.

    It handles a ton better with the P2 fork over that old Bomber .. and I think going with the short Kona fork over the Salsa was the right decision. It slices, it dices, it handles great.

    So far it seems like it's going to be perfect for the kind of riding I have planned for it though.

    Now to figure out the right way to wrap handlebars with barcons.
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  58. #58
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    For wrap, run the shifter cables long enough to go all the way around the bends so they exit with the brake cables. This affects shifting minimally, extra drag is not noticeable at all. This improves the aesthetics and comfort greatly IMO.

    I've also wrapped them on another set of Woodchippers so that they exit the tape just under the brake hoods. This preserves the entirety of the drop in continual tape.
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  59. #59
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    I used the housing lengths that came with the shifters, I don't think it will reach all the way around the bar so the cables will be coming out under the brake hoods.
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  60. #60
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    Adding a picture here, so there's a different shot in each thread this thing's involved in right now
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  61. #61
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    Very nice. How do you like the ride?

    I finally picked up a nicer stem for my Phoenix. I had a really cheap looking stem on for a while and never liked the look. I finally found a +25 degree Syncros hinged stem. It looks much nicer. Unfortunately the rain is making the trails to wet to ride, so all I've done is ride it around the neighborhood since making the switch.

    <img src="https://www.eandsweb.com/bikes/pics/phoenix/IMG_1342.JPG" height="800" width="600">
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  62. #62
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    You guys have some classy looking bikes there. They look great.

    Man I want a Phoenix, (29er if I get to be picky.)
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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux
    Very nice. How do you like the ride?
    It rides great. It just disappears beneath me, just like it always did. My lower back did get a little tight, probably more due to my lack of fitness than anything else.

    I finally picked up a nicer stem for my Phoenix. I had a really cheap looking stem on for a while and never liked the look. I finally found a +25 degree Syncros hinged stem. It looks much nicer. Unfortunately the rain is making the trails to wet to ride, so all I've done is ride it around the neighborhood since making the switch.[/QUOTE]

    That stem looks good :thumb:. If I decide to go with the drop bar on this bike long term, I'll have a custom stem built to get rid of all the spacers.

    Trail conditions are the same here, anything not covered by pavement is like a sponge right now - even gravel roads.

    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    Man I want a Phoenix, (29er if I get to be picky.)
    It's easy to be picky until it comes time to sign the check I was browsing Steve Potts' blog and dreaming of a Ti 29er myself last night.
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  64. #64
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    Turned out great!

    Bob, that Phoenix looks perfect. Like it was made for drop bars! (minus the spacers of course). Who are you looking at for a custom stem? I am considering one as well, but voodoo is supposed to be coming out with one soon for their nakisi monstercross bike that may fit the bill. Just have to wait and see.

    Enjoy that bike, looks like a blast to ride. I wish I could ride right now. Too much snow and sickness in the family to steal riding time. Oh well, at least I can go on vicarious rides with ya'll!

    frog

  65. #65
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    I haven't started shopping for a stem yet ... Rody seems to be the logical choice though.

    Hopefully that voodoo rumor is right but I figure a "monstercross" bike is going to be designed for a dropbar, so the stem might not be what I need.
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  66. #66
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    Actually no,

    Oddly enough, it's designed for drop bars with a super short headtube and short reach high rise stem. Not very well thought out, but a good source for drop bar stems if they reach production.

    http://picasaweb.google.com/VooDooHQ...=embedwebsite#

    I emailed in Dec to see when they would have the stem for sale, and the guy told me spring of '10. Take a look at the prototype in the picasa album, a bit fugly, but lots of rise!

    I am going to wait and see what the final production looks like before going the custom route. Hopefully it will fit and be much easier on the wallet.

    frog

  67. #67
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    Not sure that's got enough forward reach for my setup, but I'll definitely keep that in mind before spending the cash for a custom.
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  68. #68
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    Q: "I'm wondering the same as frog, that's a heckuva stack of spacers, how much is too much?"

    A: I had a great discussion about this at the Interbike show a few years ago-how-high-to-goBlog post here

    Short answer from the engineer is- if the fork is aluminum it should be run at less than 80 mm from the head set. If using a chro mo fork/steerer then 100 mm should be the max height.

  69. #69
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    ....max height total steerer above the headset (spacers+stem), or max height of spacers not including stem?
    Somec is like the digital Zunow
    And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5h3y0a9AU

  70. #70
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    max height above the headset

    Q:
    Quote Originally Posted by yo-Nate-y
    ....max height total steerer above the headset (spacers+stem), or max height of spacers not including stem?
    A: max height of spacers between top of headset and bottom of threadless stem.
    80mm for aluminum and 100mm for steel fork steer tube-not sure about carbon....

    Quill stem physics are another story...

  71. #71
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    I guess I'm safe then, apx 2-3/4" spaced on my steel steerer
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  72. #72
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    Just found this thread while searching on info on the old WTB Phoenix bikes. As a UK guy they sort of passed me by (and the paper round would never have paid for one!) But the geometry is intriguing and not far off the Matt Chester UtiliTIman singlespeed I got back in 2001 and a 26" fore-runner of the OS Bikes BlackBuck 29er (which Mark Slate runs in his spare time)

    The set up you have there VW_Bob are almost identical of my MC Ute that I had set up with P2's and WTB Dirtdrops (no Midge or Woodchippers back then...I got Brant to make the first Midge bars but thats another story...) for all round bike duties from off-road to touring with a change of tyres and chainring.

    I ended up with 35mm spacers and 40deg stem to get the front end high enough, it looked way odd but was great for long days exploring the trails.

    Perhaps I will get my frame building contact to build a WTB copy and give little wheels a go again...

    OK, diversion over...back to the thread.

    SSP
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  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singlespeedpunk
    Just found this thread while searching on info on the old WTB Phoenix bikes. As a UK guy they sort of passed me by (and the paper round would never have paid for one!) But the geometry is intriguing and not far off the Matt Chester UtiliTIman singlespeed I got back in 2001 and a 26" fore-runner of the OS Bikes BlackBuck 29er (which Mark Slate runs in his spare time)

    The set up you have there VW_Bob are almost identical of my MC Ute that I had set up with P2's and WTB Dirtdrops (no Midge or Woodchippers back then...I got Brant to make the first Midge bars but thats another story...) for all round bike duties from off-road to touring with a change of tyres and chainring.

    I ended up with 35mm spacers and 40deg stem to get the front end high enough, it looked way odd but was great for long days exploring the trails.

    Perhaps I will get my frame building contact to build a WTB copy and give little wheels a go again...

    OK, diversion over...back to the thread.

    SSP
    Mentioning something like Matt Chester in the same thread as an honest, stand-up, artisan as Steve Potts is blasphemy.

    Truly a wealth of useless information.


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