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  1. #1
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    Hi newbie here, need info on mystery bike....

    Has some hallmarks of Mountain Goat. but never seen one built like this. The dropouts are a mystery as well...
    Anyone know maker, year, model?
    I have early XT or XC Pro parts to build it.
    Thanks,
    jd
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hi newbie here, need info on mystery bike....-goat7.jpg  

    Hi newbie here, need info on mystery bike....-goat2.jpg  

    Hi newbie here, need info on mystery bike....-goat.jpg  

    Hi newbie here, need info on mystery bike....-goat4.jpg  

    Hi newbie here, need info on mystery bike....-goat5.jpg  

    Hi newbie here, need info on mystery bike....-goat6.jpg  


  2. #2
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    I can't help, but there is a vintage/ classic forum for this sort of thing.

  3. #3
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    The bar stem combo looks like a Grove Hammerhead but there's subtle differences. The frame is beautiful though. The fillet brazing, the straight blade fork, the after mentioned bar stem combo, track end drop outs, seat tube cluster and the small details like brake noodle, head tube scroll work, and the bottle hole reinforcements, and it's just my size. Like MT suggested, post this up in the vintage forum. Someone will nail it pretty quickly.

    Following.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  4. #4
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    Maybe a Yeti. What they said go to the vintage forum.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    I can't help, but there is a vintage/ classic forum for this sort of thing.
    Yep, OP go here. These guys live for these old rides.

    https://forums.mtbr.com/vintage-retro-classic/

    It’s got a similar design to the a 1995 Ibis and the 1995 Catamount but both of those are full suspension. You stumped me but guaranteed someone over there will rattle off an answer for ya.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  6. #6
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    Boulder?

  7. #7
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    Very cool details on this...

    I'm not an expert, but it maybe has some similarities to this Mark Zeh?
    - one piece bar/stem
    - filet brazed
    - diamond reinforcement plates on the bottle bosses
    - press-fit BB shell

    https://forums.mtbr.com/vintage-retr...ml#post9311493

    Hi newbie here, need info on mystery bike....-696588d1337032757-early-90s-mark-zeh-ld-customer-x-bikes.jpg

    Mark Zeh seems to have been posting on that old thread in 2012? Maybe you can PM him.... if you're lucky, maybe he didn't change his email in 6 years!
    https://forums.mtbr.com/member.php?u=616410


    Here's a similar headtube on a time trial bike:

    Name:  5118951867_c184eb2618.jpg
Views: 429
Size:  97.3 KB

    If you squint... maybe some other similarities to this crappy picture from an expired ebay listing:

    Name:  s-l300.jpg
Views: 422
Size:  14.6 KB

    Another similar headtube:

    Hi newbie here, need info on mystery bike....-cc325-2img_0009.jpg
    Last edited by J_Westy; 12-19-2018 at 07:11 AM.
    --------------

    [WTB] 1987 Cannondale SM800, 20", Pink with airbrushed graphics.

  8. #8
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    This is probably of no help. But I guess it might lead you in the right direction?

    Klein always smoothed out their welds (Cannondale did also) and Devinci made a bike with that dropped triangle like that.

    Edit--Not Devinci
    Name:  p3pb14611819.jpg
Views: 422
Size:  48.2 KB
    Hubbard Bike Club

  9. #9
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    Hi newbie here, need info on mystery bike....

    People on General forum suggested I post this here...
    It has Mountain Goat style lugs. Some have suggested Klein or Mark Zeh. Zeh make the most sense, since he originated here in Minnesota.


    This came from an auction. I have period parts to build it, just curious to know what year, model make?
    Thanks,
    jd
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hi newbie here, need info on mystery bike....-goat6.jpg  

    Hi newbie here, need info on mystery bike....-goat5.jpg  

    Hi newbie here, need info on mystery bike....-goat4.jpg  

    Hi newbie here, need info on mystery bike....-goat.jpg  

    Hi newbie here, need info on mystery bike....-goat2.jpg  

    Hi newbie here, need info on mystery bike....-goat7.jpg  


  10. #10
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    Not Klein. Never saw an elevated chainstay bike from them.
    Reminds me of a FUNK, but I don't think the details at the head tube are right.
    I'm not familiar with Mark Zeh.

  11. #11
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    That is VERY close to the Yeti Ultimate, but the rear dropout/seatstay/chainstay details are different.
    Why Johnny Ringo, you look like someone just walked over your grave.

  12. #12
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    reminds me of a '90's Nishiki

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    That is VERY close to the Yeti Ultimate, but the rear dropout/seatstay/chainstay details are different.

    Did Yeti do an elevated stay bike for Schwinn back then? They were doing the Schwinn Homegrown bikes there.

    There were a bunch of elevated stay bikes...Haro, Panasonic, Centurion, the pretty one with the curvy lines, (Marzek?), but those cables mounting on the side of the top tube were not as common.
    MERCY! MERCY! MERCY!

  14. #14
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    I guessed Mark Zeh in the OP's original post:

    https://forums.mtbr.com/general-disc...l#post13922294
    --------------

    [WTB] 1987 Cannondale SM800, 20", Pink with airbrushed graphics.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Westy View Post
    Very cool details on this...

    I'm not an expert, but it maybe has some similarities to this Mark Zeh?
    - one piece bar/stem
    - filet brazed
    - diamond reinforcement plates on the bottle bosses
    - press-fit BB shell

    https://forums.mtbr.com/vintage-retr...ml#post9311493

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	696588d1337032757-early-90s-mark-zeh-ld-customer-x-bikes.jpg 
Views:	24 
Size:	94.7 KB 
ID:	1229707

    Mark Zeh seems to have been posting on that old thread in 2012? Maybe you can PM him.... if you're lucky, maybe he didn't change his email in 6 years!
    https://forums.mtbr.com/member.php?u=616410


    Here's a similar headtube on a time trial bike:

    Name:  5118951867_c184eb2618.jpg
Views: 429
Size:  97.3 KB

    If you squint... maybe some other similarities to this crappy picture from an expired ebay listing:

    Name:  s-l300.jpg
Views: 422
Size:  14.6 KB

    Another similar headtube:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	cc325-2IMG_0009.jpg 
Views:	15 
Size:	187.8 KB 
ID:	1229733
    I think that's it. The photo's fuzzy but the brake noodle on the stem and the seat post pinch bolt look the same.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Westy View Post
    I guessed Mark Zeh in the OP's original post:

    https://forums.mtbr.com/general-disc...l#post13922294
    I agree. All the details point to a MZ..
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOJO K View Post
    Did Yeti do an elevated stay bike for Schwinn back then? They were doing the Schwinn Homegrown bikes there.

    There were a bunch of elevated stay bikes...Haro, Panasonic, Centurion, the pretty one with the curvy lines, (Marzek?), but those cables mounting on the side of the top tube were not as common.
    I've never seen a Schwinn branded one like that. I sort of keep my eyes peeled for the Yeti-Schwinn connection, because all I ride are Homegrowns.
    Why Johnny Ringo, you look like someone just walked over your grave.

  18. #18
    the discerning hooligan
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    I've never seen a Schwinn branded one like that. I sort of keep my eyes peeled for the Yeti-Schwinn connection, because all I ride are Homegrowns.
    Some say there's never been a production hardtail since that matches the ride of the Homegrown...not in aluminum anyway.


    It's sad to me that Schwinn didn't survive. Between the Paramount and the Homegrown they had two bikes at the absolute top of the mountain...and then they were gone.
    MERCY! MERCY! MERCY!

  19. #19
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    No dork disc?? What??
    Trek Emonda | Transition Sentinel

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOJO K View Post
    Some say there's never been a production hardtail since that matches the ride of the Homegrown...not in aluminum anyway.


    It's sad to me that Schwinn didn't survive. Between the Paramount and the Homegrown they had two bikes at the absolute top of the mountain...and then they were gone.
    Meet its biggest competition back in the day. Catamount, at one point there were 3 in my family. To date there’s only 2. Both my brother and my sister still have them but they sit unridden due to newer bikes.

    Here’s my brothers which has some updated parts from the original build in 1996. Parts being the fork and wheels. Everything else is original build. Catamount was a boutique company out of Fort Collins Colorado. They went out of business in the late 90’s.

    Name:  66BA885D-71D4-4394-AFF9-03362C2F9826.jpeg
Views: 315
Size:  100.3 KB

    Same “Sweet Spot” suspension design as the Homegrown.
    Name:  08447C90-36E9-4A90-B21D-7251EF13D279.jpeg
Views: 320
Size:  65.1 KB
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  21. #21
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    The elevated chainstay days were in the very early 90s. The Yeti Ultimate was made of steel and built when Yeti was still in Southern California before moving to Colorado. The yeti Ultimate was also a collaboration with Mountain Bike Action in 1988, and went into production in 1991.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  22. #22
    be1
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    possibly a nishiki alien?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post

    Here’s my brothers which has some updated parts from the original build in 1996. Parts being the fork and wheels. Everything else is original build. Catamount was a boutique company out of Fort Collins Colorado. They went out of business in the late 90’s.

    Same “Sweet Spot” suspension design as the Homegrown.
    Name:  08447C90-36E9-4A90-B21D-7251EF13D279.jpeg
Views: 320
Size:  65.1 KB
    Here're my two:

    Hi newbie here, need info on mystery bike....-01-hg-tree-spring-creek.jpg
    Hardtail (19.5 lbs)


    ...and my Sweetspot, set up as a 27.5". Came in @ 24.6 Lbs. :
    Hi newbie here, need info on mystery bike....-img_3652.jpg
    Why Johnny Ringo, you look like someone just walked over your grave.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOJO K View Post
    Some say there's never been a production hardtail since that matches the ride of the Homegrown...not in aluminum anyway.


    It's sad to me that Schwinn didn't survive. Between the Paramount and the Homegrown they had two bikes at the absolute top of the mountain...and then they were gone.
    Arguably, the best aluminum hardtail ever (the frame weighed 2.9 lbs.). But I'm not biased at all.
    Why Johnny Ringo, you look like someone just walked over your grave.

  25. #25
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    Thanks for the replies and suggestions. I PMed Mark Zeh, but I doubt he's looking at bike threads anymore. I'm guessing, because I live in Minnesota and the bike was from an auction in MN and Mark Zeh resided here when this was made, this must be an early E stay Zeh? It will get built correctly and ridden.
    Also agree about the Homegrowns. I stupidly traded my 2001 for a full susp Santa Cruz. The bike I normally take on trails is a '99 DeKerf Team model, but I have a big collection of ATBs including:
    '79 King Sting
    '83 Schwinn 26" BMX frame only BMX catalog
    '84 Dawes Ranger
    '84 Mongoose All Terrain
    I ride'em all...

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by LIFE OF SCHWINN View Post
    ...It will get built correctly and ridden...
    Very cool!

    What are you thinking? Bullseye stuff and suntour would click some boxes? Nice thing with a boutique frame is that your can do anything.
    --------------

    [WTB] 1987 Cannondale SM800, 20", Pink with airbrushed graphics.

  27. #27
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    I have a full set of first gen shimano xt or suntour xc pro.
    I forgot to mention my '89 Ritchey Ascent Comp which is
    all orig except 1st gen Bullseyes. I have that one for sale,
    however on MLPS CL. Funny thing about Minneapolis....
    rated one of the top biking towns in USA. Lots of great
    frame builders have come and gone, including Zeh.
    But the bike community only wants new stuff and poo poos
    on the vintage masterpieces. I have that Ritchey f/s
    for $500 (fair price) and not a single inquiry or offer?
    Probably gonna keep that one as well....

  28. #28
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    vintage bike collectors are their own breed. can't really count on the same people who buy the new hotness to love on the classics. Some do, but most don't.

    I worked with an old mechanic in Michigan for awhile who was a pretty die-hard classic Schwinn collector.

    I worked for another guy in Indiana who had a pretty sweet collection of Schwinn Stingrays, as well as a couple vintage bmx bikes.

    I knew another old Italian guy in Indiana who went nuts for classic Italian road bikes. He'd scour craigslist and auctions and whatnot for barn bikes and then he'd restore and re-sell them.

    IME, vintage mtbs are an even tougher sell. Schwinn collectors can be kinda nuts, and I've just not encountered that with vintage mtb's at all. I don't think it's helped by the fact that there were a lot of old mtbs that might be "classic" or notable from a design standpoint, but are otherwise pieces of junk, or don't ride well.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Yep, OP go here. These guys live for these old rides.

    https://forums.mtbr.com/vintage-retro-classic/

    It’s got a similar design to the a 1995 Ibis and the 1995 Catamount but both of those are full suspension. You stumped me but guaranteed someone over there will rattle off an answer for ya.
    moved.
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  30. #30
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    I hear where you're coming from. I know a lot of people who collect different bikes. Most, including me spend $ to get them correct and never see that $ back.
    schwinnderella's Bike Shop
    These are the ones I'm selling... $20 on up. The problem with the people here in MLPS
    is they want the good ones and pay the price for the cheaper ones.

  31. #31
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    After clicking the link in post 8 and reading the thread which has Mark Zeh posting about the history and design aspects, I'm certain it's Zeh.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  32. #32
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    Thanks,
    I agree, but as stated in my replies, not many Mark Zeh fans in MLPS. It's gonna be hard to narrow down model/year.
    It has XT hubs on Araya Race rims, so I'll probably build it with XT. Should be a great rider.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by LIFE OF SCHWINN View Post
    Thanks,
    I agree, but as stated in my replies, not many Mark Zeh fans in MLPS. It's gonna be hard to narrow down model/year.
    It has XT hubs on Araya Race rims, so I'll probably build it with XT. Should be a great rider.
    He mentioned he built mainly track bikes which explain the track ends (dropouts), and his reason for the design of the seat cluster. I have a soft spot for unique fillet brazed frames. Here's my current single speed which I ordered eight years ago.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hi newbie here, need info on mystery bike....-img_20181011_144407935-effects.jpg  

    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  34. #34
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    That's super cool. I don't know a lot about him, but I'm guessing the builds are very limited? Also, as stated in prior posts, Minneapolis didn't appreciate the excellence. I purchased a road bike he made a few years ago, equipped it with period correct, nice parts and only got $300 for it. I had to laugh because the person buying it tried to get me down from there?
    The only thing I've heard about him is he invented the break away derailleur hanger and lives in Munich, Germany now.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    Here're my two:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	01 HG Tree Spring Creek.jpg 
Views:	14 
Size:	142.5 KB 
ID:	1229978
    Hardtail (19.5 lbs)


    ...and my Sweetspot, set up as a 27.5". Came in @ 24.6 Lbs. :
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3652.JPG 
Views:	12 
Size:	177.0 KB 
ID:	1229980
    Chuck, you got it wrong. My brother has the red Catamount, not the Schwinn. BTW nice rides.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by LIFE OF SCHWINN View Post
    I don't know a lot about him, but I'm guessing the builds are very limited?
    This post says ca. 750

    https://forums.mtbr.com/vintage-retr...ml#post9286544
    --------------

    [WTB] 1987 Cannondale SM800, 20", Pink with airbrushed graphics.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Chuck, you got it wrong. My brother has the red Catamount, not the Schwinn. BTW nice rides.
    Whoops! I misunderstood.
    Why Johnny Ringo, you look like someone just walked over your grave.

  38. #38
    MZC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    I think that's it. The photo's fuzzy but the brake noodle on the stem and the seat post pinch bolt look the same.
    Dear Mountain Bike Forumers,

    I just received a private message from the new owner of this bike and logged in for the first time in a while. Mr. J_Westy and Mr. Vader both positively IDed the bike.

    It appears in original kit in the upper right picture in J_Westy's post, along with another similar bike from that era (which has also been restored within the past 6-8 years). The frameset was originally painted by Mark Leonardson, in a multi-colored lace scheme. The base color matched the original box color of Kellogg's Ken Mei cereal. The rest of the colors were a mix of PPG 90s pastel-y colors, including the Lemon Ice and Turquoise colors on the bike appearing next to it in the image. The Bullseye crankset, custom bar/stem, and fork were also painted to match. Look like someone didn't like the luxury paint, or it didn't last the years. Personally, I would advocate for painting it an early 90s color, like Lemon Ice or Turquoise, or going all-out and restoring the original paint (which was quite expensive).

    Tubing was mostly True Temper's super oversized OX-II (or maybe a few tubes were OX-III-- I could look it up). BB is Fisher Evolution, with 88 mm width and bearing cartridges held in place with circlips. I believe that the headset is Campagnolo Euclid, in the Fisher Evolution 1-1/4" specification. Looks like the upper rubber ring for the grease ports is missing-- too bad-- this was a really beautiful headset.

    I was told that the headtube reinforcement rings are from Bocama (who are probably long out of business). I used to get these from Nova Cycles Supply. As I remember, the rear dropouts are highly-modified short Columbus Track dropouts (probably manufactured by Tecnociclo, another company that surely also no longer exists). The frameset was set up for an IRD rear brake and originally used the helical-power SE Racing front cantilever appearing in the foto above (I think that's the brand). We also used a custom IRD seatpost, which I believe is 31.6mm diameter. It's a while ago, so be sure to measure, if you didn't get the original post!

    The threaded eyelet on top of the top tube, just ahead of the seat tube, is for a height-rite from Joe Breeze. I don't know whether the owner actually ever installed it, or not.

    The water bottle boss on the back of the seat tube, just above the BB shell is for a pulley for routing a front derailleur cable. QBP used to sell a sealed bearing pulley for this purpose. At the time, it wasn't possible to get a top-pull front derailleur in the diameter of that seat tube.

    The seat cluster arrangement on both of the two bikes in the upper foto, used a custom seat pinch collar created for me by Joel Stenoien, a master machinist in the Twin Cities.

    The bikes were fillet brazed, using a nickel-silver alloy.

    I probably still have the build sheet for this bike in my file cabinet, so I could unearth all of the details. Let me know if you'd like to purchase a set of respray graphics-- I have them in several colors and sizes. I might even have another OX-II tubing sticker somewhere.

    Mark Leonardson and Chris Kvale painted most of my framesets, so if they're still at it, it would not be too hard to coördinate with them.

    Best Regards,
    Mark Zeh

  39. #39
    MZC
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    Dear Life of Schwinn,

    Thanks for your interest-- you did acquire one of the cooler framesets to come out of my shop. The frameset is probably from 1992, or 1993. The date is cropped off of the foto posted by J_Westy. I have the original around somewhere-- I just need to find it.

    Here is an article about one of the first elevated chainstay bikes I built. It appeared in February 1992 Bicycle Guide "Best of Cycling" Issue Hi newbie here, need info on mystery bike....-bicycle-guide-hot-tubes-article.jpg

    The article is even mostly-right. I remember being surprised about what gets written from a long interview, but I was really happy to get to appear in Bicycle Guide. After this article appeared, I acquired customers from all over the US and other countries.

    Do you have the cantilever studs for the front brake? They were separate machined parts. The front cantilever mounts were machined by Joel Stenoien, a master machinist in the Minneapolis area.

    Send me a note, if you'd like to purchase a set of respray graphics. I have them in a variety of sizes and colors.

    I included a longer note about this frameset further down in this thread, in reply to a post from the member "Vader."

    I still know the original owner, so I could ask him about the next owner of the bike. I'd be curious to know what happened to the bullseye crankset and how the bike became yellow...

    Best Regards,
    Mark Zeh

  40. #40
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    Thanks for response Mark,
    I replied already, but my Wifi is iffy and it probably didn't go through. Unfortunately, the BB on this has been smacked hard enough to throw it out of alignment. I gave it to friend who has one of your early MTN bikes. He is going to single it. I told him to join here to see if he can get decals from you.
    I appreciate the great work Mlps frame builders do past and present. I have had Chris do repairs on frames in the past.
    I currently reside in Plymouth and teach Special Ed kids how to fix bikes.
    Schwinncerely,
    jd

    p.s. I think you can tell I'm crazy about Schwinns....

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