Finally landed my Grove Hard Core- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    mkozaczek
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    Finally landed my Grove Hard Core

    Not exactly sure where I'm going to go with it yet, one thought is a repaint by Bill and build it up as a 1x8 or 1x7 with some nice vintage Hugi wheels on M231 ceramics I've been hanging onto for my Pro Floater build, or maybe a true SS with some CK wheels I'm putting together.

    Either way, it's been a long search and I finally got one. It will join the 92 Gator Adroit, 92 Pro Floater and the soon to be maybe acquired 95 ARC.










  2. #2
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    Bars and forks too?! Nice.

  3. #3
    Humanoid Lobster
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    Sweet! Please post pics when built!
    Don't call it a gooseneck.

  4. #4
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    Frame looks pretty racey, as in low bars. You are a young person I presume? Nice fork.
    Too many bikes, and just enough time to ride them.

  5. #5
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    Beefy!
    Somec is like the digital Zunow
    And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5h3y0a9AU

  6. #6
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    Wow.. Great find... amazing condition.... where did this bike live for the past 18 years?

  7. #7
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    Nice score. Are those things as heavy as they look?
    Need: McMahon brake for roller cam mounts, Mountain Goat fork.

  8. #8
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    Original paint doesn't look that bad...

  9. #9
    bonked
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDXdog
    Original paint doesn't look that bad...
    Yeah, seriously. I'd keep it as is. Besides, a repaint by Bill will take forever, like seriously a long time.
    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    That is one big f'n dude!
    Yes I am!

  10. #10
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    Very nice!! What size frame is that? As already mentioned the color keyed hammerhead bar\stem and matching hard core fork make this a great find.

  11. #11
    mkozaczek
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    The frame is about an 18 or 18.5", which is fine for me. The paint is a 7 out of 10, maybe a 7.5 at best. I really think it would benefit from a repaint, but will sleep on it some more.

    It is pretty heave, at least 6 lbs with the frame, fork and the hotheads.

    The weird thing about the frame is how small the headset looks compared to the girth of the down tube, seems like it should be a 1 1/8th at least.

    Anyways, I am very happy to have found it (it belong to Justin at Freeze Thaw bikeshop in State College, PA - found it while visitng family for Xmas) and am starting to figure out how to build it up.

  12. #12
    The Crazy Cat Lady of VRC
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    OMG I can not believe you stripped this one...

    and then bailed on the project. There are a lot of guys who would have given
    a left nut for it the way it was.


    seriously, not trying to be a d*ck, but WTF?




    Steve

  13. #13
    gobsmacked Moderator
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    Yikes. What a freaking pity. In my opinion you just lost half its value but I'm sure the shiny happy people that exists out there will appreciate it. What I don't get is why don't they just get a brand new bike if they can't stand a scratch or some chain suck. Why just make it one less bike out there with original paint?

  14. #14
    mkozaczek
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastcoaststeve View Post
    OMG I can not believe you stripped this one...

    and then bailed on the project. There are a lot of guys who would have given
    a left nut for it the way it was.


    seriously, not trying to be a d*ck, but WTF?


    Steve
    Whoa, pump the brakes there captain. I've been working on this project with Bill since I got the bike last year. It's taken a while to come up with the color scheme, get a sample painted and get the decals sorted out.

    During that time I found a 19" frame which is much better suited for me. So I bought that one, which will now be my bike.

    Bill and I talked about how to proceed and his preference is to paint the bike in a design/scheme that its future owner wants, rather than me picking something.

    So, here we are. If nobody buys it as is I've asked Bill to just paint it in some wild color he wants and I'll sell it that way.

    So, why don't you chill out and stop passing judgement unless you know the entire story. I don't tell you how to manage your collection.

    Martin

  15. #15
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
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    Steve's actually a really nice guy, just standing up for him in that regard.

    I think you're going to run into this quite a bit around here, and if you've ever watched Antiques Roadshow, you'll see where it's not just us.

    The debate is an old one, but most true collectors will agree, something with the patina of life attached is far more valuable on any number of levels, than one that is shiny and new. Unless of course, it's that way because it NOS, in which case, it's worth even more.

    A repaint will always be that, a repaint. If it's a bike so far gone that it screams do over, that's an interesting debate to have, what's too far gone to leave as is. This bike though? Not nearly over the edge in my eyes, too bad it got stripped, but I understand the situation in this instance, as you explain the proper fitting find.

    I've been enjoying your collection as it emerges, you have an eye for it, and apparently an unending source of parts and cash, good on ya on all counts.

    It does sadden me that they are mostly repaints, but that is my problem not yours. If you like them that way, and ride the hell out of 'em, all good. But do understand, most here are scratching their heads, trying to figure out how to pat you on the back for your passion, while giving you a head smack at the same time for your actions.
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


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  16. #16
    mkozaczek
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    Well put, I can't argue with that and I appreciate the delivery =)

    There are just some bikes I've always wanted and I wanted them a specific way. What I collect I collect for myself and not to win shows and impress others. That's really all there is to it.

    I guess I need to post p pics of my bikes that are not and will not be repainted. Stay tuned.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkozaczek View Post
    There are just some bikes I've always wanted and I wanted them a specific way. What I collect I collect for myself and not to win shows and impress others. That's really all there is to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by mkozaczek
    So, all this recent talk of bike flipping vs restorations made me decide to officially come out into the restoration camp. In that vein I decided to convert my hobby into a little side business.

    In case anyone wants to check out my burgeoning 'business' and provide feedback, comment or just follow along with some of my projects/builds please check out my site at...
    Lets keep our stories straight Martin.


    Why would you own 100 Yugos when you could own 1 Porsche? - Rumpfy



  18. #18
    mkozaczek
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    Once again, why do these things exists separately in your head? Why can't I collect and restore bikes at the same time?

    Next you're going to tell me that I can't own a road bike or drive a sports car or something.

    In the future though, j just to make it easier on you I'll preface each bike I show with a disclosure statement.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkozaczek View Post
    Once again, why do these things exists separately in your head? Why can't I collect and restore bikes at the same time?
    I'm not going to engage in a pissing match over this because I honestly don't have a problem with what you're doing. Like Fillet Brazed said in the Yo thread, I've flipped many bikes. But I didn't go to the VRC forum to drum up business by asking opinions on bikes currently for sale and then claim it's for the good of the people.


    Why would you own 100 Yugos when you could own 1 Porsche? - Rumpfy



  20. #20
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
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    Agreed. I too have no issue with collecting for personal pleasure, whilst selling for potential profit. Who doesn't see a few dollar signs flash in their head when they catch a glimpse of some forgotten treasure at the local VOA?

    I do have an issue with folks who don't understand the nuanced approach required to use this forum as a place to share and chat, and not let it cross the line into gathering info solely for commercial gain, drumming up business, chumming the waters of a particular item for sale, etc. Of course, it goes without saying that flogging an item with a paid ad spam is the exception to that.

    It's a fine line, one that must be consciously walked. I need to myself, as I service a metric ton of Lefty suspension forks, and yet, I can't wander into the Cannondale forum, see a thread about how do I fix X, and simply jump in saying "send it to me". I do respond, and provide info that is correct with regards to the situation, and let them do the rest of the leap themselves.

    If you're doing this for cash in any sense beyond flipping a bike now and then like any bike geek collector does, then I'd recommend simply listing your website/blog in your signature so it's out in the open. Then, feel free to show stuff you find cool enough to warrant, and leave any mention of it's commercial situation to your website, email in box, or store front.

    I know for a fact that Jeff doesn't personally ride most of the bikes he posts for First Flights' museum, beyond a scoot around the parking lot, or the test loop out back perhaps. He does sell stuff from time to time, and yet we all love the pics and the conversation that they often provoke.

    As for what you show, show it all, don't think that no one here will have big love for a dinged up rarity, or that some folks won't have to cringe when that same bike isn't handled by you, as they would themselves.
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


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  21. #21
    skeet, skeet, skeet
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    All I have to say is:

    "You can restore it 100 times, but its only original once" even if its being repainted by the original guy.

    Please don't tell me that you are now going to strip the second frame that you have with original paint...

    Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit
    because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.
    — Tacitus

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce Bigelow View Post
    All I have to say is:

    "You can restore it 100 times, but its only original once" even if its being repainted by the original guy.

    Please don't tell me that you are now going to strip the second frame that you have with original paint...

    Yep, and it's even worse when you have the paint-matched fork, stem and bars...

    I could maybe see it if each piece was rounded up separately and different colors, but that thing was a nice package and looked to be in excellent shape.

  23. #23
    Hissatsu Jitensha-nin
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    Patina (/ˈpætɨnə/ or /pəˈtiːnə/)-Don't be afraid of it. It's a great thing!

    BTW, is it me or has there been a spike of VRC carnage (sanding, stripping, ahem...powder coating...) lately.

  24. #24
    gobsmacked Moderator
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    all the same dude, mostly.

  25. #25
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    Think of yourself as a custodian not an owner and preserving something starts to make a lot more sense. Everything gets sold. Everything you own will be owned by someone else or destroyed sooner or later. The greatest collections in the world are dismantled. If it matters enough to collect it it matters enough to preserve it. it won't be yours forever and chances are your kids won't give a damn so save it for the next person who does care.
    test

  26. #26
    mkozaczek
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmxcollector View Post
    Think of yourself as a custodian not an owner and preserving something starts to make a lot more sense. Everything gets sold. Everything you own will be owned by someone else or destroyed sooner or later. The greatest collections in the world are dismantled. If it matters enough to collect it it matters enough to preserve it. it won't be yours forever and chances are your kids won't give a damn so save it for the next person who does care.
    That's a very good perspective. I can appreciate that. Thanks.

  27. #27
    gobsmacked Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmxcollector View Post
    Think of yourself as a custodian not an owner and preserving something starts to make a lot more sense. Everything gets sold. Everything you own will be owned by someone else or destroyed sooner or later. The greatest collections in the world are dismantled. If it matters enough to collect it it matters enough to preserve it. it won't be yours forever and chances are your kids won't give a damn so save it for the next person who does care.
    Excellent.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmxcollector View Post
    Think of yourself as a custodian not an owner and preserving something starts to make a lot more sense. Everything gets sold. Everything you own will be owned by someone else or destroyed sooner or later. The greatest collections in the world are dismantled. If it matters enough to collect it it matters enough to preserve it. it won't be yours forever and chances are your kids won't give a damn so save it for the next person who does care.
    well said
    Need: McMahon brake for roller cam mounts, Mountain Goat fork.

  29. #29
    mtbr member
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    My kids don't like my bikes?
    Seek: Koski Trailmaster. Breezer Series 2 or 3. Cunningham Racer.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmxcollector View Post
    Think of yourself as a custodian not an owner and preserving something starts to make a lot more sense. Everything gets sold. Everything you own will be owned by someone else or destroyed sooner or later. The greatest collections in the world are dismantled. If it matters enough to collect it it matters enough to preserve it. it won't be yours forever and chances are your kids won't give a damn so save it for the next person who does care.
    I heart you.
    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com
    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aemmer View Post
    My kids don't like my bikes?
    lol I would have thought that myself. But, a couple days ago when I was moving some stuff around, my 12 year old saw a red Critical Racing stem that I have and has been begging me to put it on his bike.
    Need: McMahon brake for roller cam mounts, Mountain Goat fork.

  32. #32
    mkozaczek
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    What are these kids you speak of???

  33. #33
    mkozaczek
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanleyButterfly View Post
    What does your new one look like?
    It's a pastel blue with pink chainring masks sprayed on. Kinda weird. No rigid fork and hammerhead bar/stem.

    I have a spare hard core fork and the correct hothead bar/stem for it. All in different colors though.

  34. #34
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    What does your new one look like?

  35. #35
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    my only question: what was grove thinking re: a reverse sloping toptube? is this a tt bike?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by xy9ine View Post
    my only question: what was grove thinking re: a reverse sloping toptube? is this a tt bike?
    I'mguessing thats just an illusion caused by a higher than normal bottom bracket and the camera angle.
    Need: McMahon brake for roller cam mounts, Mountain Goat fork.

  37. #37
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    Although Hardcores do have an unusually high bottom bracket, I'm pretty sure that this particular Hardcore is a hybrid of two different Hardcore models, which may also account for the unusual geometry.

  38. #38
    mkozaczek
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    What makes you say that?

    According to Bill it's a fairly late HC, but not an unusual one by any means.

  39. #39
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    I know the previous owner.

  40. #40
    mkozaczek
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    Justin? But he was not even the original owner...

    Either way, I was just talking to Bill about getting it painted and he said it's nothing unique. Besides there weren't really different types of hardcores.

    There was a run of late hardcores that did not have an ovalized top tube that Bill made towards the end of Grove's existence to satisfy an order for the Bicycle Shop in State College. The HC that's been on eBay a couple times recently is one of those bikes. That are what you might call a Hard Core minus.

  41. #41
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    In any event, it's a cool and relatively rare bike and If Bill Grove says there is nothing unusual about it, that's good enough for me.

  42. #42
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    It's very cool that you know all these famous people. I don't know nobody. I can barely get out of bed everyday.

    I like the idea of your new bike being pastel! Could I trouble you for a foto?

  43. #43
    mkozaczek
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    Sadly I don't have any pictures of the new Hard Core. I bought it of eBay and have never seen it. Had it shipped directly to Bill.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkozaczek View Post
    Sadly I don't have any pictures of the new Hard Core. I bought it of eBay and have never seen it. Had it shipped directly to Bill.
    So I guess it's definitely going to get a respray. I thought the original paint job was pretty cool and both the frame and the Hammerhead looked to be in very good (new?) condition.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkozaczek View Post
    What makes you say that?

    According to Bill it's a fairly late HC, but not an unusual one by any means.
    Martin,

    Actually is a "hybrid frame", in that it is an early model front end that was finished later with the newer style rear dropouts and swaged stays instead of the standard brass brazed, scalloped transitions.

    Doesn't change the intended purpose, geometry or ride characteristics...only the aesthetic.

    cheers,

    rody
    As requested by the MTBR gods, I am the voice of Groovy Cycleworks, check it out... http://www.groovycycleworks.com

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlonbike View Post
    Yikes. What a freaking pity. In my opinion you just lost half its value but I'm sure the shiny happy people that exists out there will appreciate it. What I don't get is why don't they just get a brand new bike if they can't stand a scratch or some chain suck. Why just make it one less bike out there with original paint?
    I'm neither a fan of respraying.

  47. #47
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    Martin, I saved the ebay auction of your new Grove. I hope you don't mind me posting a pic since a few people were interested in seeing it.


  48. #48
    gobsmacked Moderator
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    Freaking neat paint! AWesome!

  49. #49
    He be a moose too.
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    Don't repaint it!

  50. #50
    skeet, skeet, skeet
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    Seriously, it would be a shame to lose a paint job like that.
    Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit
    because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.
    — Tacitus

  51. #51
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    You are a fool if you repaint that frame

  52. #52
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    Wow, I see chainrings in the paint. "Very cool work" You paint it, and we will find you, and push you over a knarly downhill on a beach cruiser.

  53. #53
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    Ever notice most people here who are thinking about repainting seem to do it contrary to the opinions they receive from "us"?

    That said, the fact that Bill is repainting his own frames is pretty neat.

  54. #54
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    Yeah, but you want Tom or Mike to paint yer Grove

  55. #55
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    Yeah, I could have John Slawta repaint my Landsharks too, but that doesn't mean fresh paint will make it better than before.
    Need: McMahon brake for roller cam mounts, Mountain Goat fork.

  56. #56
    He be a moose too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDXdog View Post
    Ever notice most people here who are thinking about repainting...
    No, not really. I know of few people who paint their frames to be contrary and I know of a number of people who were thinking about it who did not after discussing it with others.

  57. #57
    gobsmacked Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinguwin View Post
    No, not really. I know of few people who paint their frames to be contrary and I know of a number of people who were thinking about it who did not after discussing it with others.
    Yup. Those are the good listeners type.

  58. #58
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    So I talked to my buddy Tom and he said he painted that one back in 91-92

    are the dropouts suntour?

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