Brake choice on an Eastern Woods Research frame Build up- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Brake choice on an Eastern Woods Research frame Build up

    OK. It's not SUPER old but I'm building up an (EWR) Eastern Woods Research Original Woods Bike frame. Kicking around two "V" brakes to use on it as it will be my every day trail rider. (I'm from Southeastern, PA.) Paul's Motolite's or Avid Single Digit Ultimates? Kind of want to use the Paul's per the retro touch but don't want to use them per non cartridge pads (again this will be my main rig) and finicky set up/adjustment. Paul said the cartridges can be added but, then, that's even more $. Have heard that the Avid's have just as good stopping power and are so simple to use/maintain. Any thoughts?

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    I had Avids with the brake arch on my EWR and was not happy with them. They were a pain to set up and the power was not that great. I had a disc tab welded to it and put Avid mechanicals on it. Much better.

    I considered not doing it because the bike would not be original but then I said the heck with it, I would rather be able to stop.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eastcoaster
    OK. It's not SUPER old but I'm building up an (EWR) Eastern Woods Research Original Woods Bike frame. Kicking around two "V" brakes to use on it as it will be my every day trail rider. (I'm from Southeastern, PA.) Paul's Motolite's or Avid Single Digit Ultimates? Kind of want to use the Paul's per the retro touch but don't want to use them per non cartridge pads (again this will be my main rig) and finicky set up/adjustment. Paul said the cartridges can be added but, then, that's even more $. Have heard that the Avid's have just as good stopping power and are so simple to use/maintain. Any thoughts?
    I've not used the Monolites, but have used several versions of the Avids. The Ultimates are great to look at, but I don't think they warant the price. The Mags, TIs, and SD-7 stop just as well for a lot less money. Another downside of the Ultimates (althought it will not effect you), is that I could not get them to work on the rear of a Bontrager due to the lack of canti studs (Bontrager rear studs are a bit odd) - the other Avids work fine on the bike.

    If you're not trying to stay "retro" I'd go Avid.

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    Thanks for the reply...and..

    Quote Originally Posted by mtpisgah
    I had Avids with the brake arch on my EWR and was not happy with them. They were a pain to set up and the power was not that great. I had a disc tab welded to it and put Avid mechanicals on it. Much better.

    I considered not doing it because the bike would not be original but then I said the heck with it, I would rather be able to stop.
    Still have/ride the EWR? Which frame did you have? Woods bike or E-Motion? Yeah, Brad at Dirt Rag told me he had a disc tab welded on his EWR also. Thanks again.

  5. #5
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    eastcoaster,
    i do find that there is some difference in feel between all the lower end avids, which all seem to use the same calipers with different pads and finishes, and fixing bolts, and the ultimates, which have zero play in the calipers. i mean, it's not any quantum leap in braking power compared to any other decent v-brake, but that's the way it goes with high-end stuff- you pay a lot more for that little bit of improvement.
    the paul's work well, too, and setup shouldn't be too much of a problem on a bike with vertical dropouts, although they do require a 15mm wrench, a 4mm allen and a 5mm allen. really easy to disconnect the brakes, though.
    you can't lose, really, but i'd go with avids, myself.
    tim

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    Thanks for the informative reply...

    Quote Originally Posted by uphiller
    eastcoaster,
    i do find that there is some difference in feel between all the lower end avids, which all seem to use the same calipers with different pads and finishes, and fixing bolts, and the ultimates, which have zero play in the calipers. i mean, it's not any quantum leap in braking power compared to any other decent v-brake, but that's the way it goes with high-end stuff- you pay a lot more for that little bit of improvement.
    the paul's work well, too, and setup shouldn't be too much of a problem on a bike with vertical dropouts, although they do require a 15mm wrench, a 4mm allen and a 5mm allen. really easy to disconnect the brakes, though.
    you can't lose, really, but i'd go with avids, myself.
    tim
    You've given me the most info thus far. I run some older Avid single digit brakes on my Smorgasbord frame but never had their full potential as I really needed a brake that had a reversable noodle but never had one. So, I had a fairly large loop running over to the left side of the bike. Never did feel right.
    Michael Browne of Dirt Rag gave me some advice as well. He said that because of the straight brake arms on the Paul's, the arms can sometimes hit the tire when running larger 2.3+ sizes. I currently run 2.3's on my current ride so I will want to on this bike if clearance allows. Thanks again. Eric

  7. #7
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    sounds like a sweet rig! I remember droolong over an EWR frame at my LBS back in the day. If i'm not mistaken there was also a ti model? What color is yours? I'll keep my eyes out for it next time I'm at French Creek.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eastcoaster
    Still have/ride the EWR? Which frame did you have? Woods bike or E-Motion? Yeah, Brad at Dirt Rag told me he had a disc tab welded on his EWR also. Thanks again.
    I have the E-Motion and I love it. It changed the way I rode. I had been getting faster on my hardtail and my crosscountry FS but had hit a plateau. When I started riding the EWR, I was able to ride over more logs and my downhill speed went up. I just felt so much more comfortable on it.

    I talked to Jay DeJesus about the disc tab and he told it could handle the stress from it. I told him that it had changed the way I rode and that he needed to start building them again. I would love to have one of the trials bikes.

    Here is a pic before I put discs on it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eastcoaster
    You've given me the most info thus far. I run some older Avid single digit brakes on my Smorgasbord frame but never had their full potential as I really needed a brake that had a reversable noodle but never had one. So, I had a fairly large loop running over to the left side of the bike. Never did feel right.
    Michael Browne of Dirt Rag gave me some advice as well. He said that because of the straight brake arms on the Paul's, the arms can sometimes hit the tire when running larger 2.3+ sizes. I currently run 2.3's on my current ride so I will want to on this bike if clearance allows. Thanks again. Eric
    hey eastcoaster,
    the sd-ultimates do not have a reversible noodle, but the arms themselves are reversible. but if you do flip the arms the protrusion to which the pad bolts faces away from the bike, which looks a little goofy. another solution is just to run full-length housing, which itself reduces friction so much that the extra friction from a 135deg noodle won't be such a big deal. (the reason full-length housing reduces friction, an idea which seems illogical on the surface, is because cables generally rub a great deal on cable stop openings and the frame fittings. you also seal out muck this way.)
    i ran paul's on the rear of my trials bike, which had a 2.35 irc kujo dh. the frame had narrower than average canti stud spacing, and the arms were vertical on that bike. the paul brakes seem to run a little narrower than average, the sd-ultimates a little wider, that is, farther from vertical. i don't think tire clearance chould be an issue on either brake.
    if you are running a booster, which you very well might on a steel frame, the avid is probably the better brake, because one of the adjusting bolts on the paul brake faces ******d and gets obscured by the booster. admittedly, this is the bolt that lets the brake pad-holding piece slide up and down the caliper, ie, on a bike with vertical drops you shouldn't be fooling around with it that much, but it's something worth mentioning.
    keep those questions coming- i love answering them.
    tim

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by uphiller
    the sd-ultimates do not have a reversible noodle, but the arms themselves are reversible.
    The Ultimafes DO have reversable noodles. The bracket that holds the noddle can be placed on either brake arm. If you run your front brake on the right hand side, ths is a nice feature. Also, if your cables are routed down the right side of the top tube, this makes brake set up easier and cleaner.

  11. #11
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    Ewr

    Mine's orange. Not my first choice in stealthy bike colors but one can't be choosy with older frames. I believe that a guy that used to race for Bikesport in Trappe, PA did have a tie frame made with Jay DeJesus' approval. I do think that it was the only one though. Anyway, what's your name/what do you ride? I just didn't remember posting that I rode at French but maybe I possibly did at some point. I ride/rode a brown colored Smorgasbord. Well, hey, thanks for posting. Eric

  12. #12
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    I saw in your profile that you favorite place to ride is French Creek. Regarding the ti EWR I think we are both thinking of the same person. I thought I saw it one time at a shop in Harleysville, many years ago . Anyway my current xc bike is Trek Fuel. (red), and i ride occassionaly at French Creek. Good luck with you EWR. ride it hard. Jeff

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    Yes. That WAS the guy w/the Ti frame...

    Yeah, Bikesport used to have 2 locations and one was in Harleysville. That location closed/turned into a new shop and the current location in only in Trappe, PA. If you do see me at French Creek, give a yell and say hello. The frame is EXACTLY like the one that MtPisagh posted in the thread. His must have been made in 97 during the last run of the frames also. All of the previous Woods Bike frames had horizontal drop outs. Thanks again for the post(s) and looking forward to seeing you out on the trails!

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    Hey! I REALLY need to talk to you about your set up...

    Quote Originally Posted by mtpisgah
    I have the E-Motion and I love it. It changed the way I rode. I had been getting faster on my hardtail and my crosscountry FS but had hit a plateau. When I started riding the EWR, I was able to ride over more logs and my downhill speed went up. I just felt so much more comfortable on it.

    I talked to Jay DeJesus about the disc tab and he told it could handle the stress from it. I told him that it had changed the way I rode and that he needed to start building them again. I would love to have one of the trials bikes.

    Here is a pic before I put discs on it.

    Couldn't figure out how to private mail you. Not that computer savy.(spelling?) But, you must have the last run of the frames as well as my frame is exactly like yours. Mine was made in '97 per the bottom bracket imprints. Most previous year(s) runs of the frames had horizontal drop outs on the frame. Also, I believe that your frame is an Original Woods Bike frame not the E-Motion. I have an EWR catalog (I have to dig that thing up.) that shows the 3 frames that EWR produced. Anyway, drop me a line as I'm getting tips from Mark Taylor at the Bikesport shop mentioned in a thread below. Mark knows his stuff (and knows Jay) and much of his advice is how your bike is set up in the photo. Drop me a line at [email protected] to let me know that it is OK to e-mail you and I'll ask you some questions. Thanks! I didn't see that you posted a photo at first! Sorry about that! Otherwise, I'd have responded much faster.

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    EWR's for sale anywhere?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastcoaster
    Yeah, Bikesport used to have 2 locations and one was in Harleysville. That location closed/turned into a new shop and the current location in only in Trappe, PA. If you do see me at French Creek, give a yell and say hello. The frame is EXACTLY like the one that MtPisagh posted in the thread. His must have been made in 97 during the last run of the frames also. All of the previous Woods Bike frames had horizontal drop outs. Thanks again for the post(s) and looking forward to seeing you out on the trails!

    If anyone anywhere wants to get rid of their EWR (Woods or B2), for a hefty price of course, please send me a note. Even if your frame is cracked or damaged, I would be interested.

    In regards to the ti version, i was just speaking to the owner of it. He works at the shop in Harleysville and said he still rides it regularly. It's actually the B2, not the woods. He also said it was the only one of its kind ever made.

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    it sure is one of a kind

    Quote Originally Posted by roseyscot
    If anyone anywhere wants to get rid of their EWR (Woods or B2), for a hefty price of course, please send me a note. Even if your frame is cracked or damaged, I would be interested.

    In regards to the ti version, i was just speaking to the owner of it. He works at the shop in Harleysville and said he still rides it regularly. It's actually the B2, not the woods. He also said it was the only one of its kind ever made.
    Ed is a great guy to boot. He told me all about how he worked with Jay and tweaked the standard geometry when his custom frame was made.

    As far as leads on frames go, I have none at the moment. I was lucky enough to snag one off ebay (after waiting patiently for almost a year) It's is a pictured in the other EWR thread. It is fully built up now with a rigid fork and Magura rim brakes and some Xt stuff. I guess i don't have to tell you how incredible they ride.
    "Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth"
    Mike Tyson

  17. #17
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    There was an interesting thread last year where Jay himself mentioned that he might resurrect Eastern Woods Research.

    Anyone hear any recent news/rumors about that??

    Old thread here:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...&highlight=EWR

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    Woods/B2? Do you mean...?

    Do you mean Woods Bike or E-Motion? Just wondering. Keep an eye out. They're out there.

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