Results 1 to 23 of 23
  1. #1
    2006 Yeti AS-X
    Reputation: Lawson Raider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,180

    Hero 7 Black - Is it a Gimbal Killer?

    Took the Hero 7 Black out to an unnamed section of singletrack to get an idea of how well the Hypersmooth feature that GoPro claims is a gimbal killer performs.

    In this video, I will discuss my opinions.

    I don't use Strava. Don't need an application to tell me I am slow because I already know.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    2,552
    Did I miss the party of the video with the mountain biking?

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    In this video, I will discuss my opinions.
    I really took one for the team here. Initially I just skipped through as I usually do. But each time I stopped and watched briefly I heard something crazy. So I ended up watching the entire video in all of its extremely slowly and haltingly delivered glory.

    1. Folks use the Hero 4B with the EVO SS because the tiny motors strain when you use the heavier Hero5/6/7. The motors strain and make noise because the EVO SS was designed for the lighter hero 4 and is unbalanced when using the 5/6/7. The multiple mics on the 5/6/7 pick this noise up - one of the mics is right next to the pitch motor.

    2. "pixel peeping" isn't required to notice a difference in chest-mounted Hero 7 footage vs. gimbal footage. BTW, It seems that you don't understand what "pixel peeping" means as it has no meaning here. Nobody is zooming in to compare the IQ of the videos.

    What is apparent, especially in chest-mounted hypersmooth video, is yaw and roll lag. This delay can make the movement seem slightly out of sync and is why folks have described some of this footage as being nauseating. This is not as noticeable in helmet-mounted hypersmooth video.

    3. This is the craziest part: Your opinions about riding with a gimbal are based upon zero experience with actually riding with a gimbal.

    4. "nobody want extra bulk"/"bulky three-axis gimbal" The weight of the gimbal is unnoticeable when I'm riding. I forget it's there. It's only 145g. Apparently folks do want the extra bulk of a gimbal since so many people use them...

    5. "you have to feed it batteries" The batteries last 4-5 hours in the EVO SS. The built in battery of the Feyu Tech WG2 last even longer. This is another non-issue that you are speculating about based on zero experience.

    6. Re: Hero 4 "if water gets on it, it's toast" This is another ridiculous claim. Without the case, the H4 is plenty water resistant for riding in the slop, light rain, getting splashed, etc. Heck, I was even able to resuscitate a H4B that spent a few minutes under water when a drone went for an unplanned swim.

    There are probably a few more whoppers that I missed but my my eyes started glazing over towards the end of your video.

    TLDR; The H7 is a great camera that can capture smooth video if folks know what they are doing. Calling it a gimbal killer based on zero gimbal experience is laughable.

  4. #4
    100% PRIME ALBERTA BEEF
    Reputation: mtnbkrmike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    2,035

  5. #5
    2006 Yeti AS-X
    Reputation: Lawson Raider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,180
    I have rode with a gimbal before - I bought a Removu gimbal a year or so ago and yes it is bulky (not talking weight but rather sizeable) - I would prefer not ride with one. And while the gimbal does a great job with vertical, you can tell horizontally with folks riding pretty fast that the gimbal struggles to keep up on turns.

    The reason I said the Hero 7 Black is a gimbal killer is because the Hypersmooth EIS is good enough that any advantages the gimbal gives you is dwarfed by its disadvantages. I have seen videos of folks using it and its pretty darn good. If I could ride without one and have decent footage, I am game for that.
    I don't use Strava. Don't need an application to tell me I am slow because I already know.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    24
    Why don't you use the Removu?

  7. #7
    Old, Slow and now FAT! :)
    Reputation: TheNormsk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    2,584
    No it is not. I can see uses for it for condition where the gimbal in impractical but to call it a gimbal killer is BS.

    Here is is my comparison.


  8. #8
    100% PRIME ALBERTA BEEF
    Reputation: mtnbkrmike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    2,035
    Three time GoPro owner here (2, 6 and 7 Black). Gimbal killer or not, one less thing to worry about now that I have the 7 Black is a blessing. Sadly, itís a challenge keeping the most basic of shit organized for me. I forgot my shoes today! Long story, and first time ever for that, but still. Leaving a gimbal and all the gimbal accessories off the list of shit I have to lug to the trailhead every ride is a very good thing. Perfection is not required for my footage. The EIS in the 7 is plenty good enough for me and the peeps I roll with. So while it may or may not be a gimbal killer for the cork sniffing crew, it effectively is for me.

    #2000 post. Woohoo! One extra beer tonight in celebration...

    And tomorrow I have the opportunity to ride with one of the 2 co-inventors of the VPP linkage design. Life is good.

  9. #9
    2006 Yeti AS-X
    Reputation: Lawson Raider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,180
    Quote Originally Posted by endurosquatch View Post
    Why don't you use the Removu?
    It was too cumbersome and didn't work for me so I returned it.
    I don't use Strava. Don't need an application to tell me I am slow because I already know.

  10. #10
    2006 Yeti AS-X
    Reputation: Lawson Raider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,180
    Quote Originally Posted by TheNormsk View Post
    No it is not. I can see uses for it for condition where the gimbal in impractical but to call it a gimbal killer is BS.

    Here is is my comparison.
    I watched your video - and the difference is not that significant - the average person watching the video won't even notice it unless they are specifically looking for it.

    In the first part of my opinion, I said is the Hero 7 Black a gimbal killer? Yes and No. I am not here to say the gimbal is inferior by the purest definition but rather what I was trying to say was that the advantages of the gimbal over the hypersmooth is not significant enough to outweigh the gimbals disadvantages and yes, like everything, there are disadvantages to the gimbal.

    Disadvantages:

    Extra bulk: It's an additional piece of equipment hanging off your chest.
    Cost: Gimbals run about 200 - 350 bucks. The EVO SS is $249.00. An extra set of batteries runs about $24 - $35. Charger runs about $20.00. So to add the gimbal, you are looking at about $300 on top of the camera.
    Extra batteries you have to carry on trail: Even though it has a runtime advertised of 5 hours, depending on how long you are riding (one day ride you can probably get away with not carrying batteries) but most people will carry at least one extra set of batteries just in case.
    ** If you are using the Hero 4 Black ** : Loss of image quality. The Hero 5 - 7 offer better video quality so you will lose that if you decide to use the Hero 4 Black / gimbal. The only advantage the Hero 4 Black gives you camera wise, is better audio quality which is why most people are still using it vs the Hero 5 - 7 with a gimbal which you can use with the EVO SS (Its advertised on their website).

    In addition, running the Hero 4 or earlier camera without the waterproof case does expose it to water damage / lens damage - will a raindrop or splash kill the camera? Maybe or maybe not. But the camera is not waterproof without the case so water getting on the camera at the wrong place you risk the camera going adios.

    Crash exposure: (This applies to anything) but the gimbal is one more piece of expensive equipment that can be damaged in a crash. Does every crash break the gimbal, of course not. I have seen many Youtube mountain bikers crash with the EVO SS and get back and start filming - I have also seen the gimbal get trashed in crashes too on Youtube.

    So it comes down to the question is the extra $300 investment for the gimbal worth the minute stabilization improvement you get from it? In my opinion, no. But that is just my opinion. If it is worth it to you, by all means go for it.
    I don't use Strava. Don't need an application to tell me I am slow because I already know.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    Disadvantages:

    Extra bulk: It's an additional piece of equipment hanging off your chest.
    Again, while you may struggle with wearing a gimbal, many folks can wear them with ease.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    Cost: Gimbals run about 200 - 350 bucks. The EVO SS is $249.00. An extra set of batteries runs about $24 - $35. Charger runs about $20.00. So to add the gimbal, you are looking at about $300 on top of the camera.
    Many folks don't share your spending limitations. This should be obvious.

    Also, you are really confused about the pricing.

    An extra set of batteries through EVO is $29 - for four batteries, not a pair. A pair of 18350 cells is $7.95 on eBay. Only fool would sped "$24-$35" for an extra set of batteries.

    The gimbal comes with a charger, you don't need to buy one. You're proving once again that you have zero experience with the EVO SS.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    Extra batteries you have to carry on trail: Even though it has a runtime advertised of 5 hours, depending on how long you are riding (one day ride you can probably get away with not carrying batteries) but most people will carry at least one extra set of batteries just in case.
    This is false. See my previous post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider, circa 2017
    Gimbals are nice but the downside is another thing you have to constantly change batteries on the trail
    This is apparently the genesis of your misunderstanding about batteries and the EVO SS. This was false then and it's false now.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider, circa 2017
    The only advantage the Hero 4 Black gives you camera wise, is better audio quality which is why most people are still using it vs the Hero 5 - 7 with a gimbal which you can use with the EVO SS (Its advertised on their website).
    You can get perfectly usable audio with a gimbal and a Hero 5/6/7. What you can't seem to understand is that the EVO SS isn't the only gimbal out there. The WG3 does not pick up gimbal motor noise like the EVO SS does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    In addition, running the Hero 4 or earlier camera without the waterproof case does expose it to water damage / lens damage - will a raindrop or splash kill the camera? Maybe or maybe not. But the camera is not waterproof without the case so water getting on the camera at the wrong place you risk the camera going adios.
    Again, more fear-mongering.

    3+ years running a Hero 4B in a gimbal in sloppy conditions including light rain. It's still going strong. A few years of flying the Hero 4B on a drone in fog and mist, no issues. Can water intrusion happen? Sure, but not as easy or as common as you keep claiming, without experience.

    Lens damage? That's what lens covers/filters are for. Again, you have no experience here but continue to chirp away with your unfounded claims.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    So it comes down to the question is the extra $300 investment for the gimbal worth the minute stabilization improvement you get from it? In my opinion, no. But that is just my opinion. If it is worth it to you, by all means go for it.
    What would be helpful is if your opinion was based upon facts and experience.

    You've proven that your opinion is based upon nothing but conjecture.

  12. #12
    2006 Yeti AS-X
    Reputation: Lawson Raider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,180
    Well - everyone I have seen making professional Youtube videos runs their Hero 4 Black with no lens covers on them. Seths, BKXC, Singletrack Sampler just to name a few - all run their Hero 4 Blacks' with no lens protection whatsover. There are lens protectors for them, I own one for when I used to do drivelapses with my Hero 3+ Silver in the truck. So you could run on the camera if you so choose.

    Each person can run their cameras how they want to, it's there camera. I choose to be protective for mine. Personal choice.

    It all comes down to personal choice.
    I don't use Strava. Don't need an application to tell me I am slow because I already know.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    45
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    Well - everyone I have seen making professional Youtube videos runs their Hero 4 Black with no lens covers on them. Seths, BKXC, Singletrack Sampler just to name a few - all run their Hero 4 Blacks' with no lens protection whatsover. There are lens protectors for them, I own one for when I used to do drivelapses with my Hero 3+ Silver in the truck. So you could run on the camera if you so choose.

    Each person can run their cameras how they want to, it's there camera. I choose to be protective for mine. Personal choice.

    It all comes down to personal choice.
    A friend let me borrow his Hero4. He purchased a set of 4 lens covers. One was I believe a UV filter (clear). One was a polarized filter and 2 were ND filters. Or 3 ND filters and one polarized filter.

    It just slipped on over the lens housing and seemed to work well. Will it take being hit by a rock? Good question. But it keeps the dust and debris off it, and minor smacks from a twig, etc.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    Well - everyone I have seen making professional Youtube videos runs their Hero 4 Black with no lens covers on them. Seths, BKXC, Singletrack Sampler just to name a few - all run their Hero 4 Blacks' with no lens protection whatsover.
    Since you apparently can't figure this out, let me help:

    1. They run without a lens cover because they know, based on experience (there's your lack of experience again), that damaging a lens is very rare. (they also don't force a lower shutter speed or increase saturation while removing glare by using filters but that's another can of worms)

    2. Most folks also know that if you damage a H4 lens they can be replaced.

    So this "disadvantage" that you imagine isn't the big deal that you are trying to make it.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    45
    Well done on the comparison.
    On the side by side screen it is difficult to tell any significant differences. Any larger screen viewing platform will more easily show the unstable moments.

    I have learned to accept, and enjoy, stabilized footage. I captured dirt bike footage a few weeks ago from the gimbal mounted Hero2 and was blown away. I wasn't riding hard, but to see the heavy bike over rocks and quick descents come out crystal clear I was blown away. The handlebars move so much that any viewer that also participates in the sport can recognize how rough the conditions are.

    That brings me to another aspect of gimbal smooth trails vs. jitter. My audience are my friends who also mountain bike or dirt bike. They know the trails I am showcasing. I don't tend to share my videos of mountain bike with people who don't mountain bike. Some yes, but they also don't care how steep or rocky or bumpy the trail is either. When I watch back smooth video I can sort of tell the conditions. What I cannot tell is a drop. I've ridden trails with a surprising drop based on videos posted by others. Aside from that I can tell the conditions because I record stabilized and know how much it smoothed out a trail. Therefore, if I see other stabilized video (gimbal) and can compare the tire sounds or bar movement I have a pretty decent idea of how harsh the trail conditions are.

    I first mounted my EVO gimbal per the videos suggesting to mount it vertically. I hit the bars that day so many times. I went with the horizontal mount and it's much better. Never really in the way. It's a bit more cumbersome in general, but also now that I am used to it I don't have issues wearing it whatsoever. Especially when batteries far outlast any rides I can do with the camera filling a memory card or draining the battery.

    I guess because of the content I create and the frequency of use, I am not one to leave the gimbal behind and trade for the Hero7. If/when I get the 7, I know I'll have a spare/second camera to add to the mix. Chest mount gimbal and rear mount Hero7 perhaps, as an option.

    There are pros and cons of both and each user will have their own reason why one option is better than the other.

  16. #16
    Old, Slow and now FAT! :)
    Reputation: TheNormsk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    2,584
    Quote Originally Posted by og-mtb View Post
    Again, while you may struggle with wearing a gimbal, many folks can wear them with ease.

    The gimbal comes with a charger, you don't need to buy one. You're proving once again that you have zero experience with the EVO SS.

    This is false. See my previous post.

    This is apparently the genesis of your misunderstanding about batteries and the EVO SS. This was false then and it's false now.

    You can get perfectly usable audio with a gimbal and a Hero 5/6/7. What you can't seem to understand is that the EVO SS isn't the only gimbal out there. The WG3 does not pick up gimbal motor noise like the EVO SS does.

    Again, more fear-mongering.

    3+ years running a Hero 4B in a gimbal in sloppy conditions including light rain. It's still going strong. A few years of flying the Hero 4B on a drone in fog and mist, no issues. Can water intrusion happen? Sure, but not as easy or as common as you keep claiming, without experience.

    Lens damage? That's what lens covers/filters are for. Again, you have no experience here but continue to chirp away with your unfounded claims.

    What would be helpful is if your opinion was based upon facts and experience.

    You've proven that your opinion is based upon nothing but conjecture.
    og-mtb pretty must nails it. The Evo SS came with extra batteries and the charger when I got it. In the years I've had it, I have never needed to use more batteries than what the gimbal came with, even on five hour rides.

    The picture quality on the 4 is not subpar. Yes the 7 is better but the 4 was stellar when it came out and it still holds its own today. The audio on the 4 has been vastly superior to the 5 and 6 that came after it. I will say that the audio on the 7 is getting close to the 4 now. I'm still playing with it and it's not perfect yet but its darn close.

    The one thing you tend to forget is that the people that own gimbals have been using them for a few years. So for them the question is, is the 7 good enough to dump the gimbal they already have and the answer is clearly no. However if you are new to videoing then I would agree the value proposition is very different.

    For a casual consumer then yes it will be good enough. If you are trying to be the next big thing on YouTube then no, you will still want your gimbal. My main take away from the Hero 7 stabilization is that it is good but the video suffers from a "drunken" horizon that can get a little nauseating and vertical alignment can be challenging. The later could be eliminated if GoPro allowed the camera to record in 4K 4:3 with Hypersmooth which unfortunately it does not.

    I rode with the 7 exclusively yesterday recording in 2.7k 4:3. The video is good, I agree, but I miss the 4k and it would not have worked in 16:9 as I needed to tweak vertical alignment in post. Then again, perhaps my recording standards are a little higher than the average consumer of this camera.

  17. #17
    2006 Yeti AS-X
    Reputation: Lawson Raider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,180
    Here is a pro-Youtube review of the Hero 7 Black.

    Seth's Bike Hacks - makes his living on Youtube.

    I am not arguing that the gimbal is inferior - just that is it worth the costs for the improvement in quality - if it is for you, good. If not, then no.

    I don't use Strava. Don't need an application to tell me I am slow because I already know.

  18. #18
    100% PRIME ALBERTA BEEF
    Reputation: mtnbkrmike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    2,035
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    Here is a pro-Youtube review of the Hero 7 Black.

    Seth's Bike Hacks - makes his living on Youtube.

    I am not arguing that the gimbal is inferior - just that is it worth the costs for the improvement in quality - if it is for you, good. If not, then no.

    @6:19..."...meet the Ride Ruiner 5000"...

    @7:10..."...chest mounted gimbals are now legacy products..."

    KA-BOOM.

    I'm pretty sure that sums it up for about 99.95% of the action camera sporting, mountain biking world. Maybe more.

    But it's an interesting discussion, and everyone is entitled to their opinion and to spend their hard earned cash however they feel. And to carry whatever they wish while biking. Whatever rocks your world.

    Well done GoPro!!! Just when we all thought you were about to go tits up...

  19. #19
    100% PRIME ALBERTA BEEF
    Reputation: mtnbkrmike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    2,035
    Quote Originally Posted by TheNormsk View Post
    No it is not. I can see uses for it for condition where the gimbal in impractical but to call it a gimbal killer is BS.

    Here is is my comparison.

    That's a great video comparison. Super well done. Thanks for making it.

    To my simple eye, the 7 is awesome. Picture quality appears to be much superior, and the EIS is over the top impressive (regardless of whether it reaches the level of quality of the gimbal).

    To me, this video substantiates just how incredibly impressive the 7 Black is. What a colossal step up from the 6.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    Here is a pro-Youtube review of the Hero 7 Black.

    Seth's Bike Hacks - makes his living on Youtube.
    Ah, the ole "Appeal to Authority" fallacy. Cute.

    Since you put so much stock in what Seth has to say, why aren't you using a gimbal? Your videos are typically looooooong and he says they are the best option.

    "I do want to make clear that gimbals are still the best option for people like Bryan who post longer videos showcasing epic locations. It's just that most of us are only trying to capture a short clip or study a course for an upcoming race."

    His videos are usually well done but towards the end he juxtaposes having a good time with riding without a gimbal, as if you can't have fun while wearing one. That makes no sense based on his previous videos and all of the rest of the vids out there that clearly show folks having fun while riding with a gimbal.

    p.s. It's no wonder you believe that gimbals are bulky considering that, of all of the gimbals on the market, you bought a pos like the Removu. I would be constantly whacking that thing on my stem.


  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    45
    Quote Originally Posted by og-mtb View Post
    Ah, the ole "Appeal to Authority" fallacy. Cute.

    Since you put so much stock in what Seth has to say, why aren't you using a gimbal? Your videos are typically looooooong and he says they are the best option.

    "I do want to make clear that gimbals are still the best option for people like Bryan who post longer videos showcasing epic locations. It's just that most of us are only trying to capture a short clip or study a course for an upcoming race."

    His videos are usually well done but towards the end he juxtaposes having a good time with riding without a gimbal, as if you can't have fun while wearing one. That makes no sense based on his previous videos and all of the rest of the vids out there that clearly show folks having fun while riding with a gimbal.

    p.s. It's no wonder you believe that gimbals are bulky considering that, of all of the gimbals on the market, you bought a pos like the Removu. I would be constantly whacking that thing on my stem.

    My first ride with the EVO gimbal was mounted similar to the picture you posted, per direction of the EVO video suggestions. I could barely lean forward without hitting the bars/stem. I'd hop off the bike forward of the saddle to just 'stop' and I'd hit the stem too. Even nearly bumped into the side of my truck. I'm sure I could learn to adapt. But after mounting horizontally I don't find it to be in my way at all.

    It doesn't seem like much but mounting the EVO horizontally raised the camera lens about 2" and pulled it inward 1.5", when compared to the vertical mount option.
    I use the standard GoPro Chesty

  22. #22
    2006 Yeti AS-X
    Reputation: Lawson Raider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,180
    Quote Originally Posted by og-mtb View Post
    Ah, the ole "Appeal to Authority" fallacy. Cute.

    Since you put so much stock in what Seth has to say, why aren't you using a gimbal? Your videos are typically looooooong and he says they are the best option.

    "I do want to make clear that gimbals are still the best option for people like Bryan who post longer videos showcasing epic locations. It's just that most of us are only trying to capture a short clip or study a course for an upcoming race."

    His videos are usually well done but towards the end he juxtaposes having a good time with riding without a gimbal, as if you can't have fun while wearing one. That makes no sense based on his previous videos and all of the rest of the vids out there that clearly show folks having fun while riding with a gimbal.

    p.s. It's no wonder you believe that gimbals are bulky considering that, of all of the gimbals on the market, you bought a pos like the Removu. I would be constantly whacking that thing on my stem.

    Yeah I was not a big fan of the Removu, if I were to go gimbal, I would definitely do the EVO SS which seems to be the staple for mountain bike vids.
    I don't use Strava. Don't need an application to tell me I am slow because I already know.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PureMX's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    101
    Front fork mounted Hero 7 Black.

    https://youtu.be/3zfJUJVbw30
    2014 Santa Cruz Bronson
    2011 Santa Cruz Blur LT2
    2013 Santa Cruz Julianna (daughter)
    2009 Specialized Myka (wife)

Similar Threads

  1. Hero 7 "gimbal-like" stabilization
    By brownpownow in forum Videos and POV Cameras
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 10-04-2018, 12:44 PM
  2. Wearable Gimbal for Sony Action Cams and Go Pro Hero 4 Session
    By gribble in forum Videos and POV Cameras
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-18-2018, 01:10 PM
  3. GoPro Hero 6...and no gimbal...
    By mtnbkrmike in forum Videos and POV Cameras
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-13-2018, 09:41 PM
  4. Mountain Biking Through the Woods [4k] hero 5 gimbal
    By GlancesToTheWorld in forum Videos and POV Cameras
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-03-2017, 09:30 PM
  5. My recent video using hero 5 with gimbal
    By GlancesToTheWorld in forum Videos and POV Cameras
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-25-2017, 04:47 PM

Members who have read this thread: 47

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

mtbr.com and the ConsumerReview Network are business units of Invenda Corporation

(C) Copyright 1996-2018. All Rights Reserved.