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  1. #1
    Never enough time to ride
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    Couple quick questions...

    Thinking very hard about pulling the trigger on a new El Capitan but had a couple of quick questions.

    How does the suspension play with the current crop of 1x systems. I'm currently running a 30 tooth ring with a SRAM 11 speed rear end. Any weird feed back or bad habits with this set up?

    The other one can be a touchy one, so I'm going to be specific. How has the PF30 bb been with a high quality bearing set (chris king etc...). I'm not a doom sayer for press fit bottom brackets, I've had two bb92 with Chris King bottom brackets that have been utterly silent, but my experience with the PF30 is limited to garbage bottom brackets.

    Been a long time Turner rider but have bounced around on a few different frames the last few years to try the "new and better" and have been over all less than impressed with the newer geometries, they have their strong suites but compromise to much in other places. I really like what I see with the Cap and am very interested in any input you all can give.

    happy trails...

    squish
    Get out and ride!

  2. #2
    Ultra Ventanaphile
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    For 1X, the 30tooth is nearly the perfect sweetspot, It's the closest Cog to having neutral effect on chain tension. I run a 30t on my Zeus, 99% cuz I can't climb but the sweetspot doesn't hurt.

    PF30 - Prepped correctly and manufactured correctly, (Which of course Ventana does etc etc) there are very few problems. I am currently on BSA adapters with SRAM GXP cranks, two years later, no creaks, no squeaks etc. Also Wheels Manufacturing makes a BB that is collet style (Threads to itself) that I'm going to switch too once this GXP BB finally dies.

    Hope this helps a bit.
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  3. #3
    Never enough time to ride
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    That's music to my ears. I run the 30t for the same reason. I'm a larger human being at 6' 4" and 240lbs and my climbing has often been compared to a semi truck, slow but I get there! I had a Turner DW Sultan and that thing would kick back like a mule if your were hopping along and forgot to shift out of the granny ring, very much impacted by the chain ring size, which was be design. The Split Pivot Horsethief I had didn't display the same characteristics and was pretty neutral with the 30 tooth as well, but it's downfall was overly lightweight construction in the wrong spots.

    And prep with the Press Fits has always been key in the shop, I used to get on guys who just popped them in dry and made them remove them and start over. But tolerances play nearly as big a roll, I had assumed that Sherwood would run tighter tolerances but real world input is always better than an assumption. I had also forgotten about the Wheels bottom brackets. That may be the direction I go if the bearings are good quality.

    Man it's been a while since I've really posted anything other than a quick answer to an ignored question on here. The Turner boards used to be hoping and so did the Ellsworth forum...now they're kind of a waste land. So is the Ventana board, did everyone finally decide it was more fun to ride bikes than talk about them all day?

    happy trails...

    squish
    Get out and ride!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by squish View Post

    Man it's been a while since I've really posted anything other than a quick answer to an ignored question on here. The Turner boards used to be hoping and so did the Ellsworth forum...now they're kind of a waste land. So is the Ventana board, did everyone finally decide it was more fun to ride bikes than talk about them all day?

    happy trails...

    squish
    I think Facebook/Instagram etc has really hurt the Message Board format. The number of folks on MTBR is WAY down compared to its early 2000's heyday. One thing, about Ventana, they always get lumped into Turner/Ellsworth territory. They are significantly smaller than that, the quality is second to none, but they are a 3-5 person shop, they are closer to Curtlo/Sycip/Waltworks than anything else. So there isn't THAT many Ventana owners in general and if MTBR only represents, a fraction of mountain bikers in general you could see why so few are on here.
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  5. #5
    Never enough time to ride
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    Had not consdiered the social media aspect of the whole thing, and it really does make sense. With everything right there on your phone and constantly so, it'sa more accessible and appealing option. I still kind of like the forums, there's usually more discussion and better stories!

    And that quality is exactly what I'm after. After 15 years in shops and watching the latest and greatest fall apart if you try to ride them for more than 2 seasons has really left a bad taste in my mouth. Especially after owning a few Turners and realizing that a well built frame beats the crap out of some of the other stuff. I fell into the trap of trying some of the newest stuff and while they worked well they definitely left me wanting, especially in the fit and finish and durability department. I think, to, now that I'm a little older, married and looking to start a family I really just want something that's going to be good for the long haul. Something I can literally grab from the spare room, pump up the tires and go, maybe with the addition of a Robert Axle Project rear axle. Having a job outside the industry now has me thinking harder about where I put my money. I've got a ridiculously reliable kit, with the exception of the creaky freaking KS seatpost, that would only need a change to the lower headset cup and bottom bracket to work in this frame.

    Looking forward to having some discussions with Sherwood and maybe get a semi custom ride on the way before winter settles in South Dakota...

    happy trails...

    Josh
    Get out and ride!

  6. #6
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    Cool, post up pics when you get it.
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  7. #7
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    I will do that! Had a little bit of a delay, had to chew into the budget for the frame a little bit but we will get there.

    A couple more questions, what are the shock hardware diameter and width, and what is the shock tune? Swapping to a Rock Shox Monarch during the build.

    Happy trails...

    Josh
    Get out and ride!

  8. #8
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    I believe the Shock spacer sizing is 6 x 22.0 I will verify though.

    Shock tune, I run the Cane Creek DB Inline, I don't think that comes with specific tunes already. Sherwood or Teresa at V HQ can let you know which tune they get of the FOX shocks.
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  9. #9
    Never enough time to ride
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    Nope, the DB can be set up how ever you feel like, fantastic shock, a lot more fiddly than I want! I will get in touch with them shortly. Thanks for the info.

    happy trails...

    Josh
    Get out and ride!

  10. #10
    No known cure
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    My Ventana El Ciclon is a last gen with custom geometry which is current, and I can find no reason to "upgrade". The front triangle has seven seasons on it; the rear eleven seasons. (I hit a moto head on at speed and destroyed the front end.)

    I weigh 180 and travel to race enduros, and destination locations like Mammoth, Ashland, Sedona and Downiville ect, along with daily rides here in Big Bear. Its a workhorse of a bike.

    I also recently turned 47 and am past the upgradeitis stage in life. Like you mentioned in another post, I just grab the bike and ride. My next bike will be another Ventana using the customer appreciation trade in program.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  11. #11
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    Oh man, I can't imagine hitting a moto head on! But I would imagine that would kill about any frame, and seriously injure the rider!

    I'm 36 this year, and the upgradeitis has left me for sure. Tired of spending money on the next new shiny thing, and just want stuff that works. I've got a 5 year old set of Hope M4's that haven't needed a lick of service aside from brake pads in that time, and best of all the feel hasn't changed at all! SRAM 1 x 11 drivetrain with Race Face Cranks that just keep going. A 10 year old set of Chris King hubs and a solid collection of other parts that aren't necessarily blingy and definitely not new, but they work!

    Looking forward to piling some miles onto one of these frames and having plenty of stories to tell!

    happy trails...

    Josh
    Get out and ride!

  12. #12
    CEO Product Failure
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo View Post
    PF30 - Prepped correctly and manufactured correctly, (Which of course Ventana does etc etc) there are very few problems.
    I have a 2014 Ciclon with PF30, Chris King BB, absolutely zero issues. Been riding (alot) since '92. This is the first design to be creak and squeak free.

    Regarding the 1x, I am just now switching to 1x's. I have been running 2x10. 39t/26t up front, 11-36t in back. However, I rarely use the smaller gear (up front). And there are now 10sp cassettes going as high as 40t+. Going to give 1x10 a try.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by squish View Post
    Had not consdiered the social media aspect of the whole thing, and it really does make sense. With everything right there on your phone and constantly so, it'sa more accessible and appealing option. I still kind of like the forums, there's usually more discussion and better stories!

    And that quality is exactly what I'm after. After 15 years in shops and watching the latest and greatest fall apart if you try to ride them for more than 2 seasons has really left a bad taste in my mouth. Especially after owning a few Turners and realizing that a well built frame beats the crap out of some of the other stuff. I fell into the trap of trying some of the newest stuff and while they worked well they definitely left me wanting, especially in the fit and finish and durability department. I think, to, now that I'm a little older, married and looking to start a family I really just want something that's going to be good for the long haul. Something I can literally grab from the spare room, pump up the tires and go, maybe with the addition of a Robert Axle Project rear axle. Having a job outside the industry now has me thinking harder about where I put my money. I've got a ridiculously reliable kit, with the exception of the creaky freaking KS seatpost, that would only need a change to the lower headset cup and bottom bracket to work in this frame.

    Looking forward to having some discussions with Sherwood and maybe get a semi custom ride on the way before winter settles in South Dakota...

    happy trails...

    Josh
    Feel free to PM me if you want my experience with Sherwood and his 'semi-custom' designs......their custom/semi-custom means they adjust lengths and angles without any type of testing of how it actually rides in the real world. Think about it...you want death wobble going down a hill because of a natural frequency occurring because a couple angles and lengths were tweaked without real world testing? And let me tell you all about dealing with Sherwood...little man with a big ego!!!

  14. #14
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    Hmmm, it would seem my experience thus far has been the complete opposite of yours. I had a couple of very good conversations with Sherwood mostly regarding my choice in cable routing and a few other odds and ends I wanted done to the frame. No geometry changes were made because after a whole lot of deliberation and more than a few hours spent contemplating bikes Ive had in the past that I really liked, it fell right into the geometry that I wanted.

    Fast forward a couple weeks to last night, I get down to the shop more than a little excited to pick up my new frame. Everything was perfect...except foe the part where they built a 25" frame instead of a 21" frame. Talk about a major let down, especially after a crappy day on the job. But instead of getting pissed I fired off an email to Teresa letting her know there was an issue, packed the frame back in the box and went home. About 30 minutes later I had a phone call back, with a very sincere apology and a solution to the problem. So as I type this there is a new 21" frame with external routing and a few other odd bits being assembled. Sounds like it should ship out next Wednesday. Am I disappointed with the mistake...you bet. I had planned on riding this weekend. But the problem has been taken care of and quickly. And after taking the rear end off this frame I can say Im very happy with my decision, in 15 years as a mechanic aside from Turner Ive not seen a better thought out and executed pivot design.

    So thats my experience to this point. Looking forward to riding it!

    Happy trails...

    Squish
    Get out and ride!

  15. #15
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    LOL..shipped the wrong frame!! Kinda like when they shipped my frame with cable routing on the top of the top tube instead of on the bottom as specified and agreed to....I got to send the frame back also. Hopefully yours doesn't crack in half like my first one did, but at least it didnt' scream like a coyote every time you touched the brakes!

  16. #16
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    Just learn how to set your brakes properly...

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