Will Moab Survive the Crack Down??????????- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Will Moab Survive the Crack Down??????????

    In a year that northern mountain biking destinations have been experiencing lower than normal temperatures and lots of snow the destinations further south have been siphoning off a lot of those normal Moab vacationers.

    Recently a bunch of those loyal Moab vacationers decided to head further south to Sedona to try out the other Red Rock destination. When asked why they chose Sedona this year many mentioned the bust factor, which has been stepped up in Moab on some of the favored trails such as Blue Dot, Green Dot, High Plains Drifter and Megladon.

    Apparently the word has gone out to the world mountain biking community that if you ride any of those really fun trails you will be fined and your vacation enjoyment will be diminished. Therefore it is a better idea to go to other destinations that have similar if not better riding opportunities to Moab.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=617414
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    Last edited by traildoc; 05-15-2010 at 03:50 PM.

  2. #2
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    speaking of crack down...

    Last I heard, it's Arizona that's getting boycotted, not Utah.

    Moab and Sedona are fantastic, hoping to visit both soon...

  3. #3
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    Why do you spend so much time and energy trying to bring down Moab? It's one thing to want to promote your own area (for whatever reason), but an altogether different thing to try and do it at the expense of hurting the reputation of another. I for one will no longer read your posts.

  4. #4
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    There's whole lot of bull$hit going down in Moab right now, from the closing of the matrimony spring, to the closing of off road trails, to the denial of canyoneering permits in Arches NP, to the ban on free camping, to the ticketing of mountain bikers. Its a whole lot of BS and there is no excuse for it.

    These things are happening people ought to know about it.

    The fun police are out in full force and the message is clear, you and your money are not welcome in Moab, UT.

    Thank you Traildoc for reminding us that there are plenty of other places to go on the next vacation.
    Last edited by monkeyhands; 05-14-2010 at 09:44 AM.

  5. #5
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    No Problem

    With a short 2hr drive and the horrific Spring we are having (winter hanging on) we spend a ton of weekends in Moab at this time of year. Never had a single problem there in 10+ years. The people are all friendly and everyone play's well together in my experience. Only problem as far as I'm concerned is the beer suck's So BYO
    As far as Blue Dot etc is concerned it's an illegal trail plain and simple. Moab has so many users they need to draw a line somewhere. If the trail is that amazing (I've ridden Golden Spike right by it and it looks awsome!) they should have worked with the BLM to put it in properly. To PAINT in a trail right in clear view is quite a slap in the face to any agency that is tasked with watching that land.
    BTW, I hope to visit Sedona next year for my 40th with a few buddy's. Can't wait!
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  6. #6
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    The short answer is....

    yes, Moab will survive without you. Enjoy Arizona.
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  7. #7
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    I hope Mr. Smiling Jack-O-Lantern jersey applied sunblock to his big Sedona bald head.

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    [QUOTE=rcharrette]To PAINT in a trail right in clear view is quite a slap in the face to any agency that is tasked with watching that land.QUOTE]

    rc:

    Why did they paint the Slickrock trail? To think that paint would be an issue with a trail on slickrock (to mark the most fun and direct routing and to keep people out of the cipto) seems ridiculous to a small brained person like me.

    If you evr get to Sedona I will give you a personal tour for whatever that's worth.

    TD

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by glesoine
    Why do you spend so much time and energy trying to bring down Moab? It's one thing to want to promote your own area (for whatever reason), but an altogether different thing to try and do it at the expense of hurting the reputation of another. I for one will no longer read your posts.

    glesoine;

    What you obviously don't know is that I have done more to promote Moab mountain biking than you will ever do in several lifetimes. The next time you go to ride down the LPS just ride down Sand Flats road instead and see how much fun it is to get to the Porcupine Rim viewpoint.

    At this point in time it is not as fun going to Moab as it has been in the past. Hopefully there will be some chances in the near future.

    In case you don't know about the MTBR feature to eliminate my posts from your viewing pleasure you might want to disable all of my posts automaticlly.

    TD

  10. #10
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    The fun police are everywhere....I was accused of illegally guiding in Fruita and harassed/interrogated by a BLM ranger for about 45 mins while my friends enjoying beer in the parking lot got brethelized by the highway patrol. Oh yeah, this was during the FRUITA FAT TIRE FESTIVAL.

    Stop having fun at once or you will be subject to punishment!

    $hits wayyy out of whack in a lot of places it seems now. I'm just gonna ignore it and not let it bother me. If someone has to go to jail for riding a bike, I'll happily be that person and do it kicking and screaming.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkeyhands
    There's whole lot of bull$hit going down in Moab right now, from the closing of the matrimony spring, to the closing of off road trails, to the denial of canyoneering permits in Arches NP, to the ban on free camping, to the ticketing of mountain bikers. Its a whole lot of BS and there is no excuse for it.

    These things are happening people ought to know about it.

    The fun police are out in full force and the message is clear, you and your money are not welcome in Moab, UT.

    Thank you Traildoc for reminding us that there are plenty of other places to go on the next vacation.
    MH:

    You have just won a free two nights lodging in Sedona and a barbecue steak dinner when you get here.

    If you like the looks of this trail I will give you a free tour.

    TD
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  12. #12
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    Count me in!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkeyhands
    Count me in!
    Great. Glad that's resolved. Please take the rain with you .

  14. #14
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    Someone could also ask

    If MTB trails in Moab can survive without some cracking down. Regulations are a diffcult line to walk. There has been alot of single-track that has become jeep roads and when rangers ticket Jeeps and Quads for being places they are not allowed they are greeted as heros, but if they ticket a biker for riding illegally they are accused ruining mecca. Face it if there are no regulations very little singletrack is likely to survive. An area that is as popular as moab with many different types of users will not not thrive and there will be constant user conflicts without some regulations. Regulations are useless unless they are enforced. So just remember that the Rangers and BLM while they are harrassing some MTB'ers are also protecting MTB areas from other users that would destroy the trails in a single trip. I will admit to riding and enjoying blue dot and and not noticing some no tresspassing and foot traffic only signs during hours that I don't think anyone will see. (night rides).
    Visiting St george/Hurricane? Stay at my vacation rental. Discounts for MTB's

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalfaraway
    So just remember that the Rangers and BLM while they are harrassing some MTB'ers are also protecting MTB areas from other users that would destroy the trails in a single trip.
    What? Jeeps can't even get close to making is down some of those trails.

    What exactly are they 'protecting', (other than their own egos), by giving mountain bikers tickets? Is the slickrock damaged? Is there some endangered species? It is ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalfaraway
    I will admit to riding and enjoying blue dot and and not noticing some no tresspassing and foot traffic only signs during hours that I don't think anyone will see. (night rides).
    You are a hypocrite.

  16. #16
    JMH
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    I think Moab will survive the crackdown since only about 10% of the actual riding population reads these threads to plan MTB trips.

    Anybody on here been busted? I just carry smoke grenades, shuts that pursuit **** down in a New York Minute and the cans biodegrade in less than 20,000 years.

    Roll on.

  17. #17
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    Frying pan ---> fire. I'd warrant there's still loads more camping around Moab than Sedona, and no BS RedRock parking pass kiosks. Sedona's got a history of shutting down "unsanctioned" trails. Perhaps they're showing Moab's land managers the way?
    - Joe

    Quote Originally Posted by monkeyhands
    There's whole lot of bull$hit going down in Moab right now, from the closing of the matrimony spring, to the closing of off road trails, to the denial of canyoneering permits in Arches NP, to the ban on free camping, to the ticketing of mountain bikers. Its a whole lot of BS and there is no excuse for it.

    These things are happening people ought to know about it.

    The fun police are out in full force and the message is clear, you and your money are not welcome in Moab, UT.

    Thank you Traildoc for reminding us that there are plenty of other places to go on the next vacation.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado
    The fun police are everywhere....I was accused of illegally guiding in Fruita and harassed/interrogated by a BLM ranger for about 45 mins while my friends enjoying beer in the parking lot got brethelized by the highway patrol. Oh yeah, this was during the FRUITA FAT TIRE FESTIVAL.

    Stop having fun at once or you will be subject to punishment!

    $hits wayyy out of whack in a lot of places it seems now. I'm just gonna ignore it and not let it bother me. If someone has to go to jail for riding a bike, I'll happily be that person and do it kicking and screaming.

    Dang Dude!
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by NuMexJoe
    Frying pan ---> fire. I'd warrant there's still loads more camping around Moab than Sedona, and no BS RedRock parking pass kiosks. Sedona's got a history of shutting down "unsanctioned" trails. - Joe
    Joe:

    You are right about the camping it sucks. The Red Rock passes also suck, but I know people wo have over 25 tickets and they have never paid a fine. They are kind of disappointed that they don't get one when they have parked in a Red Rock lot for four or five hours.

    I personally just pay the $20 fee for an annual Red Rock pass and pray that a couple dollars go into trail maintenance. I think for all the 100's of hours of volunteer maintence I do around that maybe I should even be given one for FREE.

    LASTLY, please share with us which unsactioned trails are currently shut down, without some names and locations your credability is in question.

    TD

  20. #20
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    You can use the search function as well as I can. The Sedona trail closures are common knowledge, and were a topic of discussion here a couple years ago. As for my credibility, well, if you find me incredible, I suppose I can live with that. Thanks for acknowledging my point.
    - Joe

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    Quote Originally Posted by NuMexJoe
    You can use the search function as well as I can. The Sedona trail closures are common knowledge, and were a topic of discussion here a couple years ago. As for my credibility, well, if you find me incredible, I suppose I can live with that. Thanks for acknowledging my point.
    - Joe
    Joe:

    There were trails closed in the past, but for some reason some of them have been adopted by the FS and rockjailed and the others that were temporarily closed are now all being ridden.

    The FS has recognized that those closed trails are more sustanable than the system trails. They have crews going out all the time working on system trails were the majority of non-system trail have little if any maintenance issues because they were desgned to be maintenance free.

    TD

  22. #22
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    Moab will be fine for a few reasons.

    MOST of the people that bring big bucks to Moab are the types that stay in hotels, buy dinner at restaurants, and ask local bike shops where the best trails are at. MOST of these people dont' access the internet prior to their trip in search of illegal trails or to find out what the current situation is with the BLM. MOST of these types of bikers are in Moab for a few days and want to ride the classic trails (slickrock, amasa back, sovereign, and porcupine rim). Many even demo bikes rather than bringing their own. You will often see them driving around every dirt road around a trailhead for about an hour before they actually find the trailhead. These bikers will also often be tired after 3 days of biking and will then spend money to see Canyonlands by night, rent jeeps, sit in the back of hummers, and share river rafts with a bunch of strangers.

    Now, take note, i did not say that most of the bikers in Moab were this type (although many are), what I said is that most of the bikers that spend a lot of money in Moab are that type of visitor.

    Another type of visitor (most of us) have been to Moab many times. Have gotten sick of riding the same old trails, so we search online and meet up with local buddies to find new and sometimes illegal trails. When these trails are shut down we let everyone that we know (that knows about these trails), know about new law enforcement. We sometimes forget that the percentage of bikers that actually knows about these trails is in fact very very low. These types of bikers most often camp or stay with friends when they visit Moab. They have awesome bikes that they use alot. They often bring their own food or eat cheap.

    So, even though there is an effort to enforce the closure of illegal trails, and even though many of us are bummed about the closure of said trails, nobody really cares.

    Those same visitors will keep going to moab. They will keep renting bikes. They will continue eating out. They will never camp. They will never ride an illegal trail, and they will always spend atleast a day doing something expensive other than biking.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 123ski
    Moab will be fine for a few reasons.

    MOST of the people that bring big bucks to Moab are the types that stay in hotels, buy dinner at restaurants, and ask local bike shops where the best trails are at. MOST of these people dont' access the internet prior to their trip in search of illegal trails or to find out what the current situation is with the BLM. MOST of these types of bikers are in Moab for a few days and want to ride the classic trails (slickrock, amasa back, sovereign, and porcupine rim). Many even demo bikes rather than bringing their own. You will often see them driving around every dirt road around a trailhead for about an hour before they actually find the trailhead. These bikers will also often be tired after 3 days of biking and will then spend money to see Canyonlands by night, rent jeeps, sit in the back of hummers, and share river rafts with a bunch of strangers.

    Now, take note, i did not say that most of the bikers in Moab were this type (although many are), what I said is that most of the bikers that spend a lot of money in Moab are that type of visitor.

    Another type of visitor (most of us) have been to Moab many times. Have gotten sick of riding the same old trails, so we search online and meet up with local buddies to find new and sometimes illegal trails. When these trails are shut down we let everyone that we know (that knows about these trails), know about new law enforcement. We sometimes forget that the percentage of bikers that actually knows about these trails is in fact very very low. These types of bikers most often camp or stay with friends when they visit Moab. They have awesome bikes that they use alot. They often bring their own food or eat cheap.

    So, even though there is an effort to enforce the closure of illegal trails, and even though many of us are bummed about the closure of said trails, nobody really cares.

    Those same visitors will keep going to moab. They will keep renting bikes. They will continue eating out. They will never camp. They will never ride an illegal trail, and they will always spend atleast a day doing something expensive other than biking.
    123:

    I hope you are right, but from my personal experience having ridden the new UPS, LPS trails back in 05 or 06 (whenever they were first invented) the excitement was incredible. Getting people interested in doing a shuttle for that ride was like shooting fish in a rain barrel.

    People are flocking to Sedona to ride the new stuff not the old stuff. I met some people the other night who were having a terrible time in Sedona due to not being able to match there ability to a loop, which the whole group could enjoy. I turned them onto some of our non-system trails and they said it was the best ride of their stay.

    They will now be able to communicate to others about the great ride they had in Sedona and maybe will look forward to coming back in the future. If they had never ridden the non- system trails they might never come back.

  24. #24
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    ^but then again, adding singletrack to the beginning of any already very popular trail is going to cause a lot of excitement, whether legal or not. Espeically when you consider that many bike shops run shuttles up to Hazzard/Kokepeli and they are able to promote that trail (as I said, many of the big spenders only ask shops where to ride).

    Sedona does sound awesome, I hope to be able to ride there sometime in the future. It will never replace Moab for me (based on proximity). Your replay does seem to back up the point I was trying to make though.

    Those riders would have returned and never told anyone about Sedona. Now that they found some new trails in Sedona that they enjoyed they will likely tell friends about it. YES there are some people that were able to ride blue dot, green dot, etc in moab and tell their friends about it, but for the most part people are telling their friends about Porc (including UPS and LPS) Jacksons, and for some reason still Slickrock. In fact, a lady from Texas drove past my campsite this weekend asking for directions on how to ride Sovereign. I told her everything I knew and then she immediatly started telling me about how fun Porcupine Rim the day before was.

    In closing, it is great for bikers to be able to experience new places to ride. It would be wise for Moab to consider building new trails or atleast make some of the illegal ones more accessible (or legal). In the meantime, bikers may start visiting different locations on occasion, but Moab will definitley not die....unless they start cracking down even further and turn the entire place into wilderness area or something.

  25. #25
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    Gotta agree

    I must selfishly agree with traildoc..anyone trying to decide between Moab and Sedona (or anywhere else) during the weeks I plan on riding Moab should definately choose Sedona ( or wherever). Those of us bouncing and laughing down our favorite Moab lines would appreciate it. Thank you.

    P.S. I hope traildoc's followers apply the same philosophy to skiing the Wasatch Front.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by castnblastut
    P.S. I hope traildoc's followers apply the same philosophy to skiing the Wasatch Front.
    Yeah, I heard the skiing in sedona is pretty awesome.....definitely gotta get down there for some pow!

    But yeah....moab sucks, sedona rules, tell all your friends! I started handing out flyers to everyone I see with a jeep, that sedona is "where it's at". They have the best jeep trails around if you can avoid all the bikers.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    I think Moab will survive the crackdown since only about 10% of the actual riding population reads these threads to plan MTB trips.

    Roll on.
    To be honest I only ever really read the Utard forum to find out "Which front tire to run on Porcupine Rim with a 'blue' Sid fjork on a '98 Diamond Back, with a 900 mile worn Crow rear tire with 2.3845% of 4 scoops of Stan's fluid in mid to late August on a Thursday around 2pm using an '03 Range Rover to get to the trail head and plan on eating a room temperature hot dog and Lynn Wilson's burrito after the ride?"

  28. #28
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    I do think Moab will survive the crack down, but it has us thinking of splitting up our time next year somewhere else. Just got back from 12 days in Moab and had a great time, but the locals are pretty sketched out about the crack down. Some of our friends there have been riding many of these trails for 15 to 20 years....the other thing I noticed is paint is being put down all over the place even in areas that are not blue dot and green dot. Looks to me that a war is happening there between the mtb community and the blm.

    It really is too bad; Moab will still draw, but they will loose out to other riding destinations if the blm doesn't open some of these trails. Not like they are trails anyway the best routes there are all on rock and have little impact on the desert eco system. I just hope the crack down backs off some.

  29. #29
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    So my dyslexia is acting up and I'm having a hard time reading all these posts. But from what I gathered the BLM is handing out crack in Moab so I'm down. Nothing like a 3 day bender on rock riding rocks. STOKED!!!

    BY

    P.S. Seriously though TrailDoc, for someone that claims to be an ambassador and trail builder, your posts sure are coming off more as a jilted ex-lover that just had break-up sex with said ex-lover but at the end the ex used a hammer and punch to drive this

    into your a$$ as a "go away" present.

    But if you truly did a bunch of work on the trails down there I thank you. I gotta say personally the sense of entitlement to ride anything and everything you feel is "sustainable" is a bit annoying. Yes, I want to ride those trails too, but I'll wait until I can do so legally and channel my b!itching towards people that can actually work to change things. There are tons of trails down there, I've ridden many but still have many on my "todo" list that will keep me headed back for years. Not to mention the fact that I also still have tons of features on trails I've ridden a lot that I still need to clean or don't clean regularly.

    My family has 100+ acres in the La Sals so I plan on heading down there several times a year for a long time. Which interestingly enough many "illegal" trails in the La Sals have recently been "legalized", so there are now tons of new trails up there to play on. The BLM giveth and the BLM taketh away... But it's not all a losing game for us bikers.

    I also don't like "or" situations. Moab OR Sedona. Break the tyranny of the "or", start using "and"....
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro....

  30. #30
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    uh really? I can't believe this thread...
    Bortis is right. Everyone should be thinking about how to grow MTB tourism as a whole, not trying to "steal" tourism from another spot.
    Want to make more money? Want to see greater acceptance? Want to have greater access? Want better/ more trails? Want to have fun?

    Grow the pie - don't try to steal a part of it. This is business "101" stuff... You're not dealing with a saturated marketplace - you're dealing with an underdeveloped one.
    Want to go green? Want to be low impact?
    Buy 2nd Hand Products!

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDB
    Want to make more money?
    Of course, we all do...just ask sally struthers:


  32. #32
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    I'd hit that.

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. welcorn
    Of course, we all do...just ask sally struthers:


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    I am having similar problems out here in Maryland at a reservoir where the best biking in the area is. Are they ticketing at Slickrock also? Is it because of the paint they have on the Slickrock trail?
    "Want to ride some more miles...?"

  34. #34
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    Guys, TD is just tounge-in-cheek baiting you to get a response to what he feels is a disparate attitude toward non-system trails by the land manager in both places.

    In the case of Sedona a couple of years ago, the attitude by the NFS was very much the same as the current BLM stance. Trails eradicated, closures, etc. He's of the opinion, and he might be right, that the more exposure you bring to the area (whether it be Moab or Sedona) shows the land manager the need for such trails and especially that type of biking experience. Conversely it could be construed as throwing it in their face but it seems to be working in Sedona.

    The bottom line with doc is that the Moab locals are keeping the off the grid stuff on the low down and the Sedona locals have it out in the open. At least that's my take.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcapri87
    I am having similar problems out here in Maryland at a reservoir where the best biking in the area is. Are they ticketing at Slickrock also? Is it because of the paint they have on the Slickrock trail?
    I think they're only ticketing couples from Michigan who show up with their 8 year old, no helmets on department store bikes on their first mountain bike ride after reading an article about Moab in the inflight magazine American Way. Who head out for 15 minutes on the practice loop before heading back to the parking lot with the kid crying and bloody knees, the wife pissed off and holding back tears while Larry, the dad, pushes his taco'd front wheel back with that Michael Bolton deer in the headlights look on his face.

    This is usually how that plays out:



    Followed by:



    The finger's for the dad, not the BLM cop.

    Then they pack up the Family Truckster and head for Sedona.


  36. #36
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    Uh...

    Quote Originally Posted by tcapri87
    Are they ticketing at Slickrock also? Is it because of the paint they have on the Slickrock trail?
    No and no. They are only ticketing illegal trails which TrailDoc is crying about.
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  37. #37
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    Moab will be fine. We will see how it feels after the summer once we all start heading back over in the Fall but there is so much good trail over there that once this cycle of attention passes the good times will be back in full force. (even during it the "legal" trails are still known as world class for a reason).

    I have been to Sedona and to Moab and for me Moab wins hands down, but it is a great thing to have awesome choices in life. For me a destination location has to have a great non-riding feel to it as well. Moab has that, Whistler has that, Sedona is a little wacky and tourist-like for my tastes.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by zzsean
    Sedona is a little wacky and tourist-like for my tastes.
    Me thinks you may just need to cleanse yourself in a spiritual vortex and have your chakras realigned.
    NOAH SEARS
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    Government bureaucrats don't know how make trails. In fact they don't know how to 'make' anything (except tickets). Almost all of trails in Moab were made by offroaders or 'homemade' by MTBer's. It is only later that they are co-opted by the land management agencies. If they had any brains they would realize the immense gift the green and blue dot trails (among others) are to the community of Moab and to the world.
    They probably wouldn't even know about them if they weren't so popular, the impacts are so low.

    ed
    Last edited by monkeyhands; 05-17-2010 at 10:27 PM.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkeyhands
    Government bureaucrats don't know how make trails. In fact they don't know how to 'make' anything (except tickets). Almost all of trails in Moab were made by offroaders or 'homemade' by MTBer's. It is only later that they are co-opted by the leach, parasite, hypocrites at the land management agencies. If they had any brains they would realize the immense gift the green and blue dot trails (among others) are to the community of Moab and to the world.
    They probably wouldn't even know about them if they weren't so popular, the impacts are so low.
    MH and Rockman thank-you for trying to help explain my point of view. What BY has articulated doesn't take into account is that the trails like Green Dot and Blue Dot are lower elevation trails, and while the La Sals are snowed in, those lower elevation trails are rideable and could bring in more touists while the high elevation trails thawed out.

    Also correct me if I am wrong, it was my understanding that the LaSals are protectected by the FS not the BLM. You would think someone who owns land in the La Sals would know that.

    TD
    Last edited by traildoc; 05-17-2010 at 10:52 PM.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bortis Yelltzen
    So my dyslexia is acting up and I'm having a hard time reading all these posts. But from what I gathered the BLM is handing out crack in Moab so I'm down. Nothing like a 3 day bender on rock riding rocks. STOKED!!!

    BY

    P.S. Seriously though TrailDoc, for someone that claims to be an ambassador and trail builder, your posts sure are coming off more as a jilted ex-lover that just had break-up sex with said ex-lover but at the end the ex used a hammer and punch to drive this

    into your a$$ as a "go away" present.

    But if you truly did a bunch of work on the trails down there I thank you. I gotta say personally the sense of entitlement to ride anything and everything you feel is "sustainable" is a bit annoying. Yes, I want to ride those trails too, but I'll wait until I can do so legally and channel my b!itching towards people that can actually work to change things. There are tons of trails down there, I've ridden many but still have many on my "todo" list that will keep me headed back for years. Not to mention the fact that I also still have tons of features on trails I've ridden a lot that I still need to clean or don't clean regularly.

    My family has 100+ acres in the La Sals so I plan on heading down there several times a year for a long time. Which interestingly enough many "illegal" trails in the La Sals have recently been "legalized", so there are now tons of new trails up there to play on. The BLM giveth and the BLM taketh away... But it's not all a losing game for us bikers.

    I also don't like "or" situations. Moab OR Sedona. Break the tyranny of the "or", start using "and"....
    BY:

    Could you do us all a favor and tell us the names of the tons of new trails in the La Sals that are rideable now and when the snow melts?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    BY:

    Could you do us all a favor and tell us the names of the tons of new trails in the La Sals that are rideable now and when the snow melts?
    No, you can go to Moab, stop in a shop, be nice, ask questions and buy a map just like everyone else. You know, support the locals...

    Name that trail all knowing one, quiz starts now:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Will Moab Survive the Crack Down??????????-la-sal-1.jpg  

    Will Moab Survive the Crack Down??????????-la-sal-2.jpg  

    Will Moab Survive the Crack Down??????????-la-sal-3.jpg  

    Will Moab Survive the Crack Down??????????-la-sal-4.jpg  

    Will Moab Survive the Crack Down??????????-la-sal-5.jpg  

    Last edited by Bortis Yelltzen; 05-17-2010 at 11:29 PM.
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro....

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bortis Yelltzen
    No, you can go to Moab, stop in a shop, be nice, ask questions and buy a map just like everyone else. You know, support the locals...

    Name that trail all knowing one, quiz starts now:
    BY:

    Are you a politician? I asked you direct questions and you can't even give me direct answers. I really didn't expect a straight forward answer.

    Does that trail start around Gieser Pass and head over to Gieser Pass Road above the Brumley? Is it rideable now?

    TD

  44. #44
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    No good

    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    glesoine;

    What you obviously don't know is that I have done more to promote Moab mountain biking than you will ever do in several lifetimes. The next time you go to ride down the LPS just ride down Sand Flats road instead and see how much fun it is to get to the Porcupine Rim viewpoint.

    At this point in time it is not as fun going to Moab as it has been in the past. Hopefully there will be some chances in the near future.

    In case you don't know about the MTBR feature to eliminate my posts from your viewing pleasure you might want to disable all of my posts automaticlly.

    TD
    ...
    Last edited by altazo; 05-18-2010 at 07:58 AM.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    In a year that northern mountain biking destinations have been experiencing lower than normal temperatures and lots of snow the destinations further south have been siphoning off a lot of those normal Moab vacationers.

    Moab is a "northern mountain biking destination?" And all this time I thought it was down in the desert...

    Sedona has been on my short list of mtb. destinations to check out for a while now. Knowing that you claim to be instrumental in what's going on mtb wise down there, I think I'll pass.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bortis Yelltzen
    No, you can go to Moab, stop in a shop, be nice, ask questions and buy a map just like everyone else. You know, support the locals...

    Name that trail all knowing one, quiz starts now:
    Sucks to be the one carrying the camera all the time, doesn't it? You get some epic shots of your friends and throw in one of your own bike lying down in the grass for posterity.

    "Yeah, I totally rode that trail once. See here's a picture of my bike in the weeds."

    And, I don't know the name of that trail but the pictures are quite nice.

    BTW: Traildoc has been officially barred from ever being shown or riding the Humdinger. The executive order was handed down yesterday evening. Last thing we need is the guy who goes around and pokes holes in everyone's condoms spoiling any fun that could be had. Anyone who's anyone knows that there are no serious answers to all the stupid questions posed on this website .

  47. #47
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    Dear TrailDoc,
    This thread has gotten totally ridiculous. It is not polite to b*$tch about Utah on the Utah forum when you don' t live here, so please excuse the locals lack of concern about your opinions on Moab. To be blunt we don't care about you. We don't care if you come back or not even if you singlehandly built LPS. Just because you and your self rightous posse are probably from California and believe the whole world revolves around how awesome you are we in Utah don't care. Don't care, don't care, don't care. Moab will still be killer and more so with less of your kind on the trail.
    Enjoy Arizona,
    JC
    Last edited by Idiot Boy 1; 05-18-2010 at 07:56 AM.
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    BY:

    Are you a politician? I asked you direct questions and you can't even give me direct answers. I really didn't expect a straight forward answer.
    No. I'm an engineer. I use logic and reason most the time. But my posts above are more tageted at annoyance and frustration as a payback for the tone of your posts in this thread. I'm sure you are a nice guy and have done great things for trails in many places, I'm just not liking your tone here.

    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    Does that trail start around Gieser Pass and head over to Gieser Pass Road above the Brumley? Is it rideable now?

    TD
    Kinda. They are in the La Sals, Gieser is in the La Sals, and one of the trails in the pics starts near Gieser, but some don't. That is one of the greatest parts about Moab in my opinion, about the time all the lower stuff is too hot the La Sal and alpine stuff is thawing out and nice and cool with hero dirt. Then in the fall you can start at 10,000 ft in the alpine environment and ride all the way back down into Moab. Or do an alpine ride one day, a desert ride the next, and then both the next and then.... While Sedona sounds great, and I plan to ride there, I'm not sure it can provide the same variety of rides.

    BY
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro....

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bortis Yelltzen
    That is one of the greatest parts about Moab in my opinion, about the time all the lower stuff is too hot the La Sal and alpine stuff is thawing out and nice and cool with hero dirt. Then in the fall you can start at 10,000 ft in the alpine environment and ride all the way back down into Moab. Or do an alpine ride one day, a desert ride the next, and then both the next and then.... While Sedona sounds great, and I plan to ride there, I'm not sure it can provide the same variety of rides.BY
    Moab is on a different scale altogether. Smack dab in the middle of the Colorado Plateau, surrounded by rock and canyons. Sedona is on the edge of the Plateau and is more limited in scale and areas to ride. But you can always ride Flagstaff for the higher altitude stuff. It probably doesn't take any more time to drive 50 min to a Flag trailhead at 7000' than it does to get to most of the trails in the LaSals. Comparing the two is apples and oranges.

    While Sedona may have more singletrack it is often intertwined within an urban setting. You're never too far from a neighborhood. That said there are a couple of trails that are up there with anything Moab has. Doc is right in that biker traffic in Sedona has increased 10times what it was a couple of years ago but I doubt it affects Moab visitation. Just another place to go. I'm not sure why doc is yankin' your chain but you're also taking the bait. You guys are taking this way too serious. You might live in Utah but you're no more a Moab local that he is (unless HFly chimes in).

    Bottom line is they're both worthy biking destinations. Trails like Blue Dot may come back but it might take some advocacy work. And there are trail advocacy groups on Moab, no?

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman
    You might live in Utah but you're no more a Moab local that he is (unless HFly chimes in).
    Rockman,
    I didn't say Moab local, I said Utah local. This is a Utah forum, not a Moab forum. It is offensive for some self rightous idiot to proclaim that Sedona is better than Moab on the Utah forum. Sedona maybe better I don't know, I plan on heading that way in the fall. After I do I won't start a thread on the Arizona forum proclaiming how much more awesome Moab is than Sedona. My point is this, TrailDoc comes across as a total [email protected]#she bag in his first post, this is just bad forum etiquette.
    Best,
    JC
    Sierra Club Sucks

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    BY:

    Are you a politician? I asked you direct questions and you can't even give me direct answers. I really didn't expect a straight forward answer.

    Does that trail start around Gieser Pass and head over to Gieser Pass Road above the Brumley? Is it rideable now?

    TD
    Yes...that's the one, and YES it is totally rideable (as of three months ago), want to meet there this weekend for some extreme freeriding?

    This is a serious question: Is it really "geiser" and not "geyser"?


    p.s. this thread is a JOKE, so you can't seriously expect any straightforward answers....right?

  52. #52
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    This Thread is getting way too heated for my soft comfort level. I'm heading back over to the All Mountain Forum where I can get some real questions answered:

    -Best All Mountain Bike For Moab?
    -Best All Mountain Bike For Sedona?
    -Best All Mountain size 2.35 Maxxis Minion F tire for All Mountain riding in Moab on a Wednesday?
    -Best All Mountain sunglasses for Moab and Sedona?
    -Best All Mountain hand pump for Moab flats?
    -Best All Mountain black left sock with a 3" cuff for Sedona?
    -Best All Mountain technique to pump gas into your Range Rover on the way to Moab while heading ther from the north? From the south?
    -Best All Mountain Cliff Bar flavor after sitting in the bottom of a stranger's Camelbak for 13 months?
    -Best All Mountain size allen key for size 5mm allen head bolts while doing trail maint in Sedona?
    -Best All Mountain mountainous to be More Mountain than your current All Mountain Moab and Sedona Mountain Mountain bike All Mountain setup?
    -Best All Mountain post ride frozen pizza?

    In here it's lame.

    Just sayin'.

  53. #53
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    Trick questions, All Mountain does not exist in Sedona or Moab.
    A bunch of my ride pics: http://uberfarm.com/mnf

  54. #54
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    Meh. It's somebody's job to bust people for riding illegal trails. So maybe that will divert 50 or 70 people to Sedona instead of Moab. I don't see how there is any kind of A: Controversy or B: reason to be proud of either location for being particularly progressive because C: Someday somebody in Sedona is going to decide to do his job and bust people for riding illegal trails and at that very moment there might be a fine crop of illegal trails in Moab that are going unmolested.

    And, just as the bleak landscape cracks with arid heat, the rains come to the Savanna and the cycle of life continues.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Will Moab Survive the Crack Down??????????-50-02c-savanna.jpg  

    Will Moab Survive the Crack Down??????????-savanna.jpg  

    Will Moab Survive the Crack Down??????????-fun_problem_on_sovereign_trail.jpg  

    Will Moab Survive the Crack Down??????????-470919617frentl_ph.jpg  

    Attached Images Attached Images  

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    Meh.....
    Logical thought provoking post = +1 point
    Zebra on a crotch rocket = +1 point
    No reference to Chumley or Jib = -1 point
    Total = +1 point

    Conclusion: Well played sir
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro....

  56. #56
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    There's a similar thread going on here. It's just as enlightening. Well, almost...

  57. #57
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    And circle gets the square.

    Quote Originally Posted by JackFromNC
    Trick questions, All Mountain does not exist in Sedona or Moab.
    Bingo!

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bortis Yelltzen
    Logical thought provoking post = +1 point
    Zebra on a crotch rocket = +1 point
    No reference to Chumley or Jib = -1 point
    Total = +1 point

    Conclusion: Well played sir
    you forgot -1 for no Lion King picture. Hakuna matata bia+che$!
    Now who wants to rent some jeeps and go "crawlin' " in Sedona?

  59. #59
    JMH
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    I think you guys are judging a little harshly. The pictures were chosen for their topical nature, I don't think movie stills from The Lion King serve to illustrate my theme of natural balance.

    I did use Jib's motorcycle to stage the chase scene.

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. welcorn
    you forgot -1 for no Lion King picture. Hakuna matata bia+che$!
    Now who wants to rent some jeeps and go "crawlin' " in Sedona?

  60. #60
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    Chumley's Mom Is Down With Sedona

    Yeah, she can do the moonwalk.


  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by slcrockymountainrider
    There's a similar thread going on here. It's just as enlightening. Well, almost...
    My life is that much richer and I thank you, sir! BTW, we're gonna need some extra Koala changing stations on the Humdinger Challenge as of 12:30am today. . .

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    And, just as the bleak landscape cracks with arid heat, the rains come to the Savanna and the cycle of life continues.
    David Attenborough's voice for narration assumed here, of course.

  63. #63
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    Thought I'd chime in. This seems to be a pissing contest between Sedona and Moab. I have ridden in Moab and Sedona both as I live in Tucson, Az and frequent both places in the fall and spring. With all due respect to Sedona, Moab owns Sedona. Before you go getting your panties in a bunch, yes I have riddent he illegal ones in Sedona(not in Moab) and these trails that TD says made someone's trip are good at best. If nothing else, I would rather contend with cops in Utah than the Scottsdalites(those rich folk from Scottsdale that come up to Sedona to drop tons of dough on overpriced Hummer excursions) in their convertible Beamers. In fact it was the cops that saved our trip by coming by the camp site the night after we stayed up till 3am listening to drunken kids. Thanks Moab Sheriffs dept!!! If I want a quick trip to go see some different terrain, Sedona is awesome( might I suggest the Bike and bean for Rentals and the Red Agave Mountain bike hotel. Killer businesses and great owners). But when I need to meet up with old friends and blow of some steam from the grind at work, I love Moab!!!

  64. #64
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    [QUOTE=suvlako]Thought I'd chime in. This seems to be a pissing contest between Sedona and Moab. I have ridden in Moab and Sedona both as I live in Tucson, Az and frequent both places in the fall and spring. With all due respect to Sedona, Moab owns Sedona. Before you go getting your panties in a bunch, yes I have ridden the illegal ones in Sedona (not in Moab) and these trails that TD says made someone's trip are good at best. QUOTE]

    Obviously, time will tell how the BLM approach to the Green Dot, Blue Dot, High Plains Drifter, Megladon and Comforatbly Dumb will effect Moab mountain biking tourism. Certainly five or six passionate MTBR posters are not going to have any influence on where people go to spend their hard earned moutainbiking vacation dollars.

    I find that personally showing a great ride in either Moab or Sedona is the key to increasing tourism in anyone area. Word of mouth is one of the best ways to promote tourism.

    I recently got a call from a bunch of Boston riders who I personally showed the secret rides in Moab several years ago. They asked me to join them again this week to show them around Moab again, I had to give them the bad news about the current situation there , and I am wondering how their trip went.

    I know the group of hardcore Whistler riders who I just got done showing around Sedona last week sure got their vacation dollars worth.

    When suvlako says Sedona trails are "good at best" I just wonder if he really knows the trail system here, I would love to hook-up with him and have him take me on what he considers to be one of his best rides in Sedona.

    TD

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    I recently got a call from a bunch of Boston riders who I personally showed the secret rides in Moab several years ago. They asked me to join them again this week to show them around Moab again, I had to give them the bad news about the current situation there , and I am wondering how their trip went.

    TD
    Dang, so are you and Sedona all monogamous and married and stuff? Sounds like you just got an offer to go a few rounds on the ex with no strings attached and you turned it down because he said no blumpkins, angry dragons, rusty trombones or dirty sanchez's.

    Looks to me like things are getting serious...


    Not riding Moab because a handful of trails are being watched seems nuts to me. There are still a lot of great trails and if you were serious about being an ambassador of the sprot and regions and a friend to these Boston folks I don't understand why you wouldn't meet up with them and show them a good time on the "legal" rides.

    I bet they had a terrible time settling for rides like Amasa/Rockstacker/Jacksons, Hazard/Kokopelli/UPS/LPS, etc...
    Last edited by Bortis Yelltzen; 05-19-2010 at 09:10 AM.
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  66. #66
    JMH
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    When suvlako says Sedona trails are "good at best" I just wonder if he really knows the trail system here, I would love to hook-up with him and have him take me on what he considers to be one of his best rides in Sedona.

    TD
    When I finally make it down to Sedona I am going to hit you up for a tour, I have no doubt the trails deliver and that you are a terrific guide.

    What I DON'T understand is why you care so much about who is doing what in Moab? Why the snarky FOX News Commentary all the time? You know better than anyone else here that the BLM is not going to read this thread and stop enforcing the law to promote tourism. So what is your real agenda? What's the back story? It's almost as if your comments are directed at a single person or small group that you have a beef with.

    I have noticed you like to call people out and put them on the spot: So I would love to hear a straight answer, not sarcasm. Why always the Aggro on the Utard forum?

    JMH

  67. #67
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    Careful Boris..the legality of UPS/LPS is debatable at best

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by P-townDave
    My life is that much richer and I thank you, sir! BTW, we're gonna need some extra Koala changing stations on the Humdinger Challenge as of 12:30am today. . .
    Congrats! And thanks for the photo of little Festus Bovine Badinga P-Town. He/she's a cutie .

    They're so cute when they sleep . Cherish these precious moments.


  69. #69
    JMH
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    Quote Originally Posted by 123ski
    Careful Boris..the legality of UPS/LPS is debatable at best
    I thought last year's reroute on UPS cleared the final hurdles for tacit (or official) BLM/FS approval? If they are ticketing elsewhere then UPS would be like shooting fish in a barrel. You could just sit there and hand out fines for three hours straight every morning.

    Anybody know the real deal?

    JMH

  70. #70
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    My issue is TD is talking about trails that I am certain will not be divuldged to the average Joe by local bike shops without copious quantities of beer and/or elicit substances. In addition I have ridden all over Sedona and even those "illegal trails" that the "Whistler Hard core" loved. You're probably referring to Highline and such, right?? Good trail yes, Moab level trail not so much. If you compare legal trails, those two destinations are worlds apart. Moab has a trail system that is around 6000 feet of elevation gain/loss(depending on your style). Sedona, maybe 1000 assuming your rode toor from the top of Schnebly Hill.

    TD, I appreciate your allegiance and support of Sedona. I really do. However, your argument is a little flawed. You are comparing apples to bowling balls.

    Don't misunderstand me, I am not saying Sedona is bad, just wondering why you are slamming the OG??

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    I thought last year's reroute on UPS cleared the final hurdles for tacit (or official) BLM/FS approval? If they are ticketing elsewhere then UPS would be like shooting fish in a barrel. You could just sit there and hand out fines for three hours straight every morning.

    Anybody know the real deal?

    JMH
    UPS and LPS are legal trails and are in travel plans.

  72. #72
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    Thanks for that, I am now cleaning coffee off my desk and off my upper lip/ out of my nose. Burns a little.

  73. #73
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    So I've been marinating on this for a bit (obviosuly with all my posts on this thread). It has become completely clear to me why TD is upset.

    The only reason I could see for all the butthurt is that TD built/helped build Green Dot, Blue Dot, High Plains Drifter, Megladon and Comforatbly Dumb. His pride in his work and the trails he built is getting stomped on by the folks (BLM?) keeping people from riding and enjoying his hard work. Hence all the jaded posts. I can understand his frustration, but at the same time if this is the case, he should have prepared himself for this knowing he was building an illegal/unsanctioned trail. It's not like he is the only guy on the planet to have this happen to him, illegal trails get closed and destroyed all the time, even if they are the mostest awesomestest. He may think his trails are so much better than any of the others and that if they can't be ridden then what is the point of going at all. He packed up his G.I. Joes, Transformers, and My Little Ponies and is going "home" i.e Sedona.


    Correct me if my logic seems off...
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro....

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by 123ski
    Careful Boris..the legality of UPS/LPS is debatable at best
    Let's have this debate, because I am calling shenanigans. Any facts to back this up? If so you might want to let all the shuttle companies know your insider information.

    JMH is right, it is like FAUX NEWS in here, all commentary and no facts. This is why the thread is a JOKE!

  75. #75
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    As 'they' say; "What Gets Probed In Sedona, Stays In Sedona."


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bortis Yelltzen

    Correct me if my logic seems off...
    Your logic is off. They are cracking down on all sorts of 'fun' activities that bring tourism to Moab not only MTBiking but others such as camping, off roading and canyoneering. Apparently some people in charge would rather have Moab be their own private 'wilderness' retreat than promote the tourist economy.

    The problem is is that Moab has been for years been dangerously close to falling behind as a mountain biking destination whether you want to admit it or not. Sure the scenery is great but a lot of the trails simply are not up to modern standards. Just because so many people on this board have never traveled outside of Utah to go mountain biking (evidenced by the righteous indignation towards anyone who even hints that Moab is not 'the ****') doesn't change that fact.

    Currently there are a plethora of places around the country that are building up their trail infrastructure that will soon make them a lot more attractive place to take your mountain bike than Moab, such as our neighbors to the northwest, north, and south. Even the east coast now has better trails than Moab, hell even Florida. If the BLM/FS/ or whoever else is in charge don't enact some reasonable way to get new more modern trails permitted then people will continue to build trails that meet those needs without their permission, OR people will go to Moab is smaller and smaller numbers every year if they are ticketing people. That is a fact.

    There are people and businesses in Moab who are wanting to work to get more modern trails, but the land managers are not being reasonable. So no wonder people say, screw them.

    So stop being all butthurt and just accept the fact that Moab is falling behind unless something changes down there.
    Last edited by monkeyhands; 05-19-2010 at 10:13 AM.

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    Hahaahaaaahaaaaaahaaaaaaaaa....

    Quote Originally Posted by monkeyhands
    Even the east coast now has better trails than Moab, hell even Florida.
    That's the funniest thing I've read on a forum. EVER! I pulled a stomach muscle laughing so hard.
    Sierra Club Sucks

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    Easy on the 'core there fella!

    Quote Originally Posted by monkeyhands
    Your logic is off.

    So stop being all butthurt and just accept the fact that Moab is falling behind unless something changes down there.
    I think your sarcasm wand needs to be recalibrated.

    The majority of the posts here are aimed at the tone of the original OP.

    Personally, I could care less about what others think about Moab, Sedona or the pizza in Patchogue, NY. Doesn't really change anything. I think most of the others here feel the same way but rather than ignoring this dumb thread they've opted to post up more BS in response to the original bit of BS.

    It's your typical BS party. Welcome. But please pass through security first next time.



    Keep on keepin' on.

  79. #79
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    OK, I'll play...
    Quote Originally Posted by monkeyhands
    Your logic is off. They are cracking down on all sorts of 'fun' activities that bring tourism to Moab such as camping, off roading and canyoneering. Some people in charge would rather have Moab be their own private 'wilderness' retreat than promote the tourist economy.
    I don't know, I go down there several times a year, but just to bike. I can't comment on the other stuff. But I don't feel like my fun has been minimized in the last several years. Haven't been down there this season yet though, I could come back in a couple weeks all pissy and join the bandwagon...

    Quote Originally Posted by monkeyhands
    The problem is is that Moab has been for years been dangerously close to falling behind as a mountain biking destination whether you want to admit it or not. Sure the scenery is great but a lot of the trails simply are not up to modern standards. Just because so many people on this board have never traveled outside of Utah to go mountain biking (evidenced by the righteous indignation towards anyone who even hints that Moab is not 'the ****') doesn't change that fact.

    Currently there are a plethora of places around the country that are building up their trail infrastructure that will soon make them a lot more attractive place to take your mountain bike than Moab, such as our neighbors to the northwest, north, and south. Even the east coast now has better trails than Moab, hell even Florida. If the BLM/FS/ or whoever else is in charge don't enact some reasonable way to get new more modern trails permitted then people will continue to build trails that meet those needs without their permission, OR people will go to Moab is smaller and smaller numbers every year if they are ticketing people on the 'fun' trails. That is a fact.
    Hmmm, I don't agree, Moab offers an experience that is somewhat unique, places like Sedona, Fruita/GJ, and St. George offer similar but different experiences. I've been all over on a mountain bike. Europe, Maui, PNW, Canada, etc... and it is true that each has something to offer. I guess it depends on what you are after, if you want bermed out manicured A-line style trails then yes, Moab is not going to provide that, just like Whistler is not going to provide ledgy miles of slickrock with canyon views. I don't want the same experience everywhere I ride. I go to Moab/Fruita/GJ/St. G when I want desert riding and I go to the PNW/BC/etc... if I want lush ferns and loam with jumps etc...

    So to say Moab is behind the times because it doesn't offer trails like these other locations seems a bit odd to me. It offers the same if not better experience it always has. I guess it depends on how you set your expectations.

    Quote Originally Posted by monkeyhands
    So stop being all butthurt and just accept the fact that Moab is falling behind unless something changes down there.
    I disagree, I don't know so much that I'm butthurt that someone is claiming that one place is better than another as much as I'm butthurt about the way TD is pooping on Moab and promoting Sedona rather than just simply inviting people to Sedona and offering a great alternative to Moab (which Sedona may very well be). It's the way he's saying it, not what he's saying is my point I guess. And for that I feel ok giving him some sh!t.

    BY
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro....

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    I thought last year's reroute on UPS cleared the final hurdles for tacit (or official) BLM/FS approval? If they are ticketing elsewhere then UPS would be like shooting fish in a barrel. You could just sit there and hand out fines for three hours straight every morning.

    Anybody know the real deal?

    JMH
    sorry..i am out of date.

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    The rain....

    has got to stop soon, it's [email protected]#ing all over my fun parade. Seems everybody's grouchy and spending too much time reading stupid posts and not enough time riding bikes. Can't wait for a bit o'sunshine
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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado
    Me thinks you may just need to cleanse yourself in a spiritual vortex and have your chakras realigned.
    +1 everyone needs to chill a bit
    Read my BLOG!

    just a guy who loves bikes and exploring

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idiot Boy 1
    has got to stop soon. Seems everybody's grouchy and spending too much time reading stupid posts and not enough time riding bikes. Can't wait for a bit o'sunshine
    I think we should all just plan an epic group ride down in Florida and while doing so work out our differences over some deep fried crude oil/methane spill shrimp kabobs. What's that awesome trail they have down there? The one with all the sidewalks and 23 ft of elevation gain?

    Nevermind, I'll drive myself nuts trying to remember.

    What weekend works for everybody?

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    When I finally make it down to Sedona I am going to hit you up for a tour, I have no doubt the trails deliver and that you are a terrific guide.

    What I DON'T understand is why you care so much about who is doing what in Moab? Why the snarky FOX News Commentary all the time? You know better than anyone else here that the BLM is not going to read this thread and stop enforcing the law to promote tourism. So what is your real agenda? What's the back story? It's almost as if your comments are directed at a single person or small group that you have a beef with.

    I have noticed you like to call people out and put them on the spot: So I would love to hear a straight answer, not sarcasm. Why always the Aggro on the Utard forum?

    JMH
    JMH:

    Can't wait to show you around. I use to spend three months a year in Moab, so I have spent alot of great times there. I love FOX News and DVR four of their programs each day. I am not sure about the BLM thing.

    I am curious about what issues the BLM deals with on a daily basis and whether busting mountain bikers riding on well thought out sustainable mainly slickrock trails is one of their biggest prioities.

    My real agenda is to give non-locals the biggest bang for there vacation dollar when they get to a mountain biking destination. The Moab locals are very secretive about their secret stash and they don't like me sharing the goods. That has always been a big part of the discussion over the years.

    IMHO without pushing the envelope on the non-sanctoned trails trails such as Hazard, UPS, MPS and LPS would have never happened, so pushing the envelope seems to bring in new trails that are badly needed.

    I like to have people answer legitimate questions. Please provide a question where you think I am calling someone out?

    TD

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    JMH:

    Can't wait to show you around. I use to spend three months a year in Moab, so I have spent alot of great times there. I love FOX News and DVR four of their programs each day. I am not sure about the BLM thing.

    I am curious about what issues the BLM deals with on a daily basis and whether busting mountain bikers riding on well thought out sustainable mainly slickrock trails is one of their biggest prioities.

    My real agenda is to give non-locals the biggest bang for there vacation dollar when they get to a mountain biking destination. The Moab locals are very secretive about their secret stash and they don't like me sharing the goods. That has always been a big part of the discussion over the years.

    IMHO without pushing the envelope on the non-sanctoned trails trails such as Hazard, UPS, MPS and LPS would have never happened, so pushing the envelope seems to bring in new trails that are badly needed.

    I like to have people answer legitimate questions. Please provide a question where you think I am calling someone out?

    TD
    Fair enough, that's what I was looking for. I too wonder why they are so bent about slickrock trails, but I also respect that illegal means illegal regardless of whether I agree. I will still likely take my chances on the trails we have been discussing and just bring extra poison darts.

    I was referring to your sometimes habit of asking locals or others to chime in and share (they never do) about trails.

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    Quote Originally Posted by suvlako
    My issue is TD is talking about trails that I am certain will not be divuldged to the average Joe by local bike shops without copious quantities of beer and/or elicit substances. In addition I have ridden all over Sedona and even those "illegal trails" that the "Whistler Hard core" loved. You're probably referring to Highline and such, right?? Good trail yes, Moab level trail not so much. If you compare legal trails, those two destinations are worlds apart. Moab has a trail system that is around 6000 feet of elevation gain/loss(depending on your style). Sedona, maybe 1000 assuming your rode toor from the top of Schnebly Hill.

    TD, I appreciate your allegiance and support of Sedona. I really do. However, your argument is a little flawed. You are comparing apples to bowling balls.

    Don't misunderstand me, I am not saying Sedona is bad, just wondering why you are slamming the OG??
    suk:

    So if you are just calling Highline just a good trail then there is not much more to discuss.
    IMHO I think that the majority of people who ride that trail have a different opinion.

    Are there any trails in Tuson that you think are a better ride than Highline?

    TD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bortis Yelltzen

    So to say Moab is behind the times because it doesn't offer trails like these other locations seems a bit odd to me. It offers the same if not better experience it always has. I guess it depends on how you set your expectations.
    BY
    It has nothing to do with offering the same experience as other places, it has to do with modernizing the trail system and realizing the potential of the area.

    Moab's 'official' trail system, with a few notable exceptions, is exactly the same as it was 15 years ago. Nothing is changed, things are getting more restricted, and nothing is planned for the future. Like anything else, that is a recipe for, stagnation, backwardness and eventual decline.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    Fair enough, that's what I was looking for. I too wonder why they are so bent about slickrock trails, but I also respect that illegal means illegal regardless of whether I agree. I will still likely take my chances on the trails we have been discussing and just bring extra poison darts.

    I was referring to your sometimes habit of asking locals or others to chime in and share (they never do) about trails.
    The reason why I believe they don't chime in is that their logic is flawed. Many of them have their secret trails that they don't share, so they are hypocrites IMHO.

    TD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idiot Boy 1
    That's the funniest thing I've read on a forum. EVER! I pulled a stomach muscle laughing so hard.
    Quote Originally Posted by slcrockymountainrider
    What's that awesome trail they have down there? The one with all the sidewalks and 23 ft of elevation gain?
    Its this type of complacent condescending attitude that makes me believe that Utah is for sure headed for second rate mountain biking status. It reminds me of a former athlete or washed up child actor, sitting on the couch sitting on the couch in front of the TV with a bag of potato chips scoffing that the new guys will never be as great as he once was, not realizing how pathetic he himself has become.

    Laugh all you want, but until you have gone to see for yourself, STFU. Florida is better than you think. They certainly have done more to make it that way than Moab, thats for sure..

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    Quote Originally Posted by monkeyhands
    Its this type of complacent condescending attitude that makes me believe that Utah is for sure headed for second rate mountain biking status.
    Well consider me perfectly content with "second rate". I guess I still think Moab is pretty fun. If you don't, you take FL, I'll take washed up, tired a$$ moab.

    I just don't see the point in getting all bent out of shape about this issue. It's a pretty hard hitting question "Will Moab Survive?" It sounds so ominous, like some fear-mongering I heard on faux news.

    Here is a straightforward answer:
    Yeah, probably....the town may shrivel up and die, a few hotels might close, one of the 55 mexican restaurants might throw in the towel, but I'll probably keep biking down there until they make me stop at which point I'll go somewhere else. If you don't want to go, don't. If losing business is what it takes for them to open up more trails then I guess that's what it takes (see african circle of life pictures).

    I'll ride my bike in moab, fruita, whistler, sun valley, st. george, sedona, and maybe even FL when I go visit my granddad (that's not sarcasm, he actually lives there).

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkeyhands
    It has nothing to do with offering the same experience as other places, it has to do with modernizing the trail system and realizing the potential of the area.

    Moab's 'official' trail system, with a few notable exceptions, is exactly the same as it was 15 years ago. Nothing is changed, things are getting more restricted, and nothing is planned for the future. Like anything else, that is a recipe for, stagnation, backwardness and eventual decline.
    Have you been to moab in the past 15 years?

    In the past 2-3 years the following has been added (legally):
    - Sovereign Trail system - hugely popular, still growing and constantly maintained by volunteer groups (Big thanks to those folks!)
    - Moab Brand Trails - new and popular, quite extensive
    - legalization of Hazard, UPS and LPS (with re-routes)

    To say that Moab is stagnant is flawed. Could it move faster? We all wish it would, but realistically there is more new trail added to Moab in recent times than have been added to commercial DH mountains of Keystone, Winter Park and Vail combined so I can't complain.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkeyhands
    Its this type of complacent condescending attitude that makes me believe that Utah is for sure headed for second rate mountain biking status. It reminds me of a former athlete or washed up child actor, sitting on the couch sitting on the couch in front of the TV with a bag of potato chips scoffing that the new guys will never be as great as he once was, not realizing how pathetic he himself has become.

    Laugh all you want, but until you have gone to see for yourself, STFU. Florida is better than you think. They certainly have done more to make it that way than Moab, thats for sure..
    OK dumba$$, let me put this to you as simple and straight forward as I can. If you read my posts and many others posts on this thread no one is saying Moab is the mecca and everything else sucks. Basically many of us are saying we think Moab will survive just fine even with a few "illegal" trails being watched closely.

    No one is saying Sedona sucks. We are primarily having some fun cracking jokes about the "doom and gloom" tone of TD's posts about Moab and how everyone should go to Sedona because of it.

    So please enlighten us with all the brotally sickter locations you've traveled and ridden/hucked and why they are so great and how we should all be building stuff like that in Utah. Maybe some of us will pack up and go ride them and you'll be, like, the leader of cool new brocations to get radical and stuff. Then we'll all buy you beers and start wearing the same clothes and stuff as you, or just want to be around you and touch you and stuff hoping we to might someday become all cool and stuff...
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro....

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    Quote Originally Posted by zzsean
    Have you been to moab in the past 15 years?

    In the past 2-3 years the following has been added (legally):
    - Sovereign Trail system - hugely popular, still growing and constantly maintained by volunteer groups (Big thanks to those folks!)
    - Moab Brand Trails - new and popular, quite extensive
    - legalization of Hazard, UPS and LPS (with re-routes)

    To say that Moab is stagnant is flawed. Could it move faster? We all wish it would, but realistically there is more new trail added to Moab in recent times than have been added to commercial DH mountains of Keystone, Winter Park and Vail combined so I can't complain.
    sean:

    I am curious about your statement about the constant maintenance of Soverign by volunteer groups. To my knowlege UPS, MPS and the LPS get very little if any trail maintenance. What's that about?

    We have the same situation in Sedona. There is a lot of trail maintenance taking place on the system trails but very little if any maintenance on the non-system trails.

    I really enjoy all your posts of the Blue Dot and Green Dot, thanks for sharing you are definitely a patriot .

    I wonder if 50 years from now those two trails will be brought into the system and how much if any trail maintenance will have to be done on them each year? Just something to think about if you are into that sort of thng.

    TD

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    suk:

    So if you are just calling Highline just a good trail then there is not much more to discuss.
    IMHO I think that the majority of people who ride that trail have a different opinion.

    Are there any trails in Tuson that you think are a better ride than Highline?

    TD
    I dig that trail.

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    Killing Broab's Spirit One Post At A Time

    Quote Originally Posted by monkeyhands
    Its this type of complacent condescending attitude that makes me believe that Utah is for sure headed for second rate mountain biking status. It reminds me of a former athlete or washed up child actor, sitting on the couch sitting on the couch in front of the TV with a bag of potato chips scoffing that the new guys will never be as great as he once was, not realizing how pathetic he himself has become.

    Laugh all you want, but until you have gone to see for yourself, STFU. Florida is better than you think. They certainly have done more to make it that way than Moab, thats for sure..

    Sweet, keep it real in Florida then .


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    Painful reminders...

    Quote Originally Posted by monkeyhands
    Laugh all you want, but until you have gone to see for yourself, STFU. Florida is better than you think. They certainly have done more to make it that way than Moab, thats for sure..
    Two words of advice my ol'man gave me the last time I ever saw him before he walked out that door for a pack of cigerettes. He said, "Son, never get between a fat girl and an all you can eat buffet and most certainly don't argue with stupid, you'll never win."

    Sometimes I have to relearn these words of wisdom the hard, painful way. Like the time I got between Chumly's mom and the mashed potatoes at Chuck-A-Rama, I was bruised for the whole summer. Or this time when I read your latest post. I can't win by arguing with you monkeyhands, I can only laugh. Florida is totally more awesome and progressive than Moab
    Sierra Club Sucks

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    sean:

    I am curious about your statement about the constant maintenance of Soverign by volunteer groups. To my knowlege UPS, MPS and the LPS get very little if any trail maintenance. What's that about?

    We have the same situation in Sedona. There is a lot of trail maintenance taking place on the system trails but very little if any maintenance on the non-system trails.

    I really enjoy all your posts of the Blue Dot and Green Dot, thanks for sharing you are definitely a patriot .

    I wonder if 50 years from now those two trails will be brought into the system and how much if any trail maintenance will have to be done on them each year? Just something to think about if you are into that sort of thng.

    TD
    The sovereign trail system is very different terrain than UPS/LPS (and for that matter the blue dot trail). It is more sandy and is still evolving so I would say that the maintenance is more of the "improvements, taking into account increased traffic" than maintenance (as the type that DH shuttle trails constantly need. The maintenance is organized by the Ride with Respect organization: http://www.ridewithrespect.org/field64.php

    You don't really see maintenance per se on the trails of Moab, but they really don't need it as such either as the geology let's the trails evolve and grow. (now dealing with idiots who don't understand that the desert is fragile and cutting your own trail close to the existing trail due to laziness or ignorance is an entirely different issue).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idiot Boy 1
    Like the time I got between Chumly's mom and the mashed potatoes at Chuck-A-Rama, I was bruised for the whole summer.
    Man, is she a b!tcH!!!

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    LMAO! I"m in!! Wrong.....Talk about BS comments. Florida better than moab?? Can the poster of such rubbish introduce me to his dealer. Clearly he is smoking better stuff than me.


    Quote Originally Posted by slcrockymountainrider
    I think we should all just plan an epic group ride down in Florida and while doing so work out our differences over some deep fried crude oil/methane spill shrimp kabobs. What's that awesome trail they have down there? The one with all the sidewalks and 23 ft of elevation gain?

    Nevermind, I'll drive myself nuts trying to remember.

    What weekend works for everybody?

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    Quote Originally Posted by suvlako
    LMAO! Talk about BS comments. Florida better than moab??
    While I seem to share a different world view than monkeyhands, in his defense, he didn't actually say Florida was better than Moab. He said is was "better than you'd think"...which is a pretty conservative statement considering I have a picture of blue-haired fatties on beach cruisers in my head. He also said that FL had done more than Moab to make it that way, which given the elevation trends in Florida makes perfect sense. You have to move a $hitload of dirt to create a semblance of a downhill trail there.

    It's all relative, and I am sure he realizes that FL will never be Moab, at least not before it is swallowed up by the ocean or falls into a giant sinkhole.....right? If not then yeah, what u smokin'?

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    TD

    This just gets more and more comical. I said it was a good trail because it is indeed fun. Are you offended by my complimenting your trails?? No one is disputing how good highline is.. However, to answer your question, yes, there are a few if not many trails in Tucson that are MUCH better than Highline to baldwin to templeton and back through slim shady. Sounds to me like you have never been to Tucson and if you have you probably rode the obligatory 50yr or Fanstasy Island(That is the tip of the iceberg).

    I would be happy to show you around and blow your mind with an 8 hour ripping fun epic ride and prove to you that T town is slowly emerging as a contender for the belt. Case in point, just this week trail advocacy groups were appoached by Mt. Lemmon for potential lift accessed riding. In closing riddle me this, what have you ridden in Tucson. Your comment tells me you have ridden little to nothing. I would be happy to give you the list of rides I have done in Sedona to show you I am not just yappin.

    suk:

    So if you are just calling Highline just a good trail then there is not much more to discuss.
    IMHO I think that the majority of people who ride that trail have a different opinion.

    Are there any trails in Tuson that you think are a better ride than Highline?

    TD

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by suvlako
    LMAO! I"m in!! Wrong.....Talk about BS comments.
    suv:

    I am still curious what trails in Tuson are more fun to ride than my favorite Highline trail in Sedona? You hook-up Highlne with some of my other favorite Sedona trails and you have a great loop IMHO.

    Please don't do the politician thing on us.

    TD
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Will Moab Survive the Crack Down??????????-maurice.jpg  

    Will Moab Survive the Crack Down??????????-maurice2.jpg  


  103. #103
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    Ohh... and the porcupine rim trail has max 2ft drops to flat that everybody here thinks are soooo bad ass. Lame.

    Florida has better downhill trails than Moab.

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    suv:I am still curious what trails in Tuson are more fun to ride than my favorite Highline trail in Sedona? You hook-up Highlne with some of my other favorite Sedona trails and you have a great loop IMHO.

    TD
    Don't you guys have an AZ forum for crap like this?

  105. #105
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    Enter Sedonaman

    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    suv:

    I am still curious what trails in Tuson are more fun to ride than my favorite Highline trail in Sedona? You hook-up Highlne with some of my other favorite Sedona trails and you have a great loop IMHO.

    Please don't do the politician thing on us.

    TD
    My niece had a similar argument the other day. But it was over whether her headless doll was better than the other girl's headless doll .

    I am going to go out on a limb here and say 'Sedona's Self-Appointed Ambassador' is falling flat on his retired James Hetfield looking face.

    BTW: Everyone knows the Humdinger is .0548% better than any Moab, Sedona or Florida gator country trail. Just sayin'.


  106. #106
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    Just working my magic monkeyhands

    Quote Originally Posted by monkeyhands
    Ohh... and the porcupine rim trail has max 2ft drops to flat that everybody here thinks are soooo bad ass. Lame.

    Florida has better downhill trails than Moab.
    Hmmm....Sounds All-Mountain. I'm down.


  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkeyhands

    Florida has better downhill trails than Moab.
    That's hilarious....you're joking right? all this e-banter has sent my sarcasm meter into overdrive.

    If you are interested in relocating, here is a job that might fit your skillset:
    http://postings.greatjob.net/waste_m...DJBT&media=IDC

  108. #108
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    EH EMM... Diving board?? I am going to assume he is kidding.

    As for TD, Green Mountain, Bugsprings, Prison camp and to put the icing on the cake, La Milagrosa(on it's own is better than Highline). Now let's see who plays politician... Have you ever done any of these?? Oh yeah, and they are legal.

    As for the "don't you Azonans have your own thread, thanks for the big open arms welcome!!



    Quote Originally Posted by monkeyhands
    Ohh... and the porcupine rim trail has max 2ft drops to flat that everybody here thinks are soooo bad ass. Lame.

    Florida has better downhill trails than Moab.

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by suvlako
    As for the "don't you Azonans have your own thread, thanks for the big open arms welcome!!
    Sorry I sounded harsh and I wasn't trying to offend, It just seems like maybe the AZ forum may be a better place to discuss Tuscon/Sedona trails. Maybe TD could have his own thread there about what the greatest variation of AZ trail X Y & Z is. It's like me going to the AZ forums and just posting why Thieve's Forest is mo' awesomer than Fireswamp.

    Sorry, gotta go, Glenn Beck is almost on.

  110. #110
    Really I am that slow
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    The only thing left for me to add to this pissing contest is that S/W Utah beats both places! =P
    Read my BLOG!

    just a guy who loves bikes and exploring

  111. #111
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    Did you read the part about me defending the Moab? That's in Utah right? This is the Utah forum isn't it? Sorry for the deviation. I digress... Glenn Beck?? For giggles right?

  112. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by suvlako
    EH EMM... Diving board?? I am going to assume he is kidding.

    As for TD, Green Mountain, Bugsprings, Prison camp and to put the icing on the cake, La Milagrosa(on it's own is better than Highline). Now let's see who plays politician... Have you ever done any of these?? Oh yeah, and they are legal.

    As for the "don't you Azonans have your own thread, thanks for the big open arms welcome!!
    suv:

    I have never ridden those trails but the reviews look GREAT for the advanced riding crowd. Sounds like they take some maintenance each year to keep them in decent shape. Are you one of the volunteers who gets in each year to fix them up after heavy rain periods.

    I think the fact that the majority of GOOD Sedona trails are accessible by riding from the middle of Sedona would be a plus for most tourists.

    I just had a friend go to Moab this last week and he only paid for one shuttle ride, which cost $20. The next day he wanted to do another shuttle ride, but chose not to since he felt the shuttle company was charging too much money.

    Th legal thing has not been a problem in Sedona, and I don't loose any sleep over riding the non-sanctioned system.

    TD

  113. #113
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    I thought this was an MTBing forum? All I hear is politicing from TD about how much better his local trails are, and political jabs about a particular cable news station. If you like Moab trails ride them, if you don't %[email protected]#$ off!!!!

  114. #114
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    I'm pretty certain TD meant to title this thread: Will Sedona Survive Arizona's Stupid F#cking Immigration Law?

    I could care less about the immigration law, but have to say that my perception of that state is one of massive retardidity when it comes to biking. Whether it be TD's favorite (and the best one in the whole wide world) redrock bike trails or how anti-bike commuting that state is. Especially in the so called 'progressive' towns like Flagstaff. There is some great footage of the run-ins on Drunkcyclist.com. You can argue otherwise from inside your bubble, but there's plenty of recent media coverage as to just how anti-biking Arizona really is.

    Besides the Federales being pricks to a few people on a few illegal trails in Moab (gee, there's a shocker), the so called politicians Mr. TD is so concerned about aren't going out of their way to drive people away from the place through dumb legislation.

    In conclusion, I blame epic stupidity on the part of all Arizonans for voting into office the blind, deaf and dumb. That includes the quassi wannabe politico Traildoc and his Sedona waxing and waning. And call foul on his lame attempt at dirverting attention from the 4th dumbest state in the Union, after Mississippi, Texas and Alaska and using the small, friendly town of Moab as a scapegoat for the short falls of the Arizona electorate.

    Yes, Utah can be pretty lame. But it's a rare occassion to be taken to court for riding your bike in a designated bike lane. Go Arizona!

    Thank you and please f#ck off.

    Here's your 4th place prize:


  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    The reason why I believe they don't chime in is that their logic is flawed. Many of them have their secret trails that they don't share, so they are hypocrites IMHO.

    TD
    I think it's more about the land management agency's attitude towards illegal trails in a particular area than it is about wanting to keep everything for themselves. Look at the last couple illegal trails that gained a lot of internet noteriety around Moab, they've either been closed outright or rerouted/dumbed down to a shadow of what they were. If I was putting in the time to scout/build new routes down there that wouldn't make me very eager to start posting them all over the net. I think things just have to function differently in Moab due to the incredible amount of tourists they see down there. And from the BLMs perspective, maybe they could be a little more proactive but they have to do something about illegal trails once in a while or things would just get out of hand. Imagine what would happen if every rider with a sense of adventure and a spray can was allowed to go out and create their own trail, it would be great for a short time until every piece of redrock in the area looked like something out of a strange rainbow brite nightmare. Regardless, hopefully they sort out the issue with Blue Dot sooner than later but I'm sure all the hoops the BLM has to jump through to add an official trail is going to take some time.

    Oh, and to keep this on topic, I hear the stuff on South Mountain is far better than any trails in Sedona or Tucson.
    Last edited by catch22; 05-20-2010 at 09:18 AM.
    Sipping the Knolly Whisquillappa

  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by suvlako
    Did you read the part about me defending the Moab? That's in Utah right? This is the Utah forum isn't it? Sorry for the deviation. I digress... Glenn Beck?? For giggles right?
    Yeah, sorry, no offense (seriously). This thread is about to go way way off topic (see below about immmigration) so I think any topic is fair game now. It's an admittedly dumb thread anyway. Moab is cool, Sedona is cool, Tuscon is cool.

    And yes, the Glenn Beck ref. was a joke. Well sort of, I was flipping channels a few days ago and landed on his show. Funny part, I found myself listening for longer than I am comfortable mentioning and the more I listened the angrier and dumber I became. I eventually had to pull the car over. I need to just keep telling myself that it is a COMEDY show and then I'll be ok.

    And, in the spirit of not giving a $hit about this thread and derailing it completely, I saw a documentary the other day about Fox news that was pretty interesting for those interested. I think it was called Outfoxed and was on Netflix on demand.

    Onward to AZ immigration debates.....yeah!

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    I just had a friend go to Moab this last week and he only paid for one shuttle ride, which cost $20. The next day he wanted to do another shuttle ride, but chose not to since he felt the shuttle company was charging too much money.

    TD
    Is there anything about Moab that is OK, or only mildly annoying in your and your friends perspective? Just curious.

    On the $20 shuttle thing, I've done it both ways, self shuttling/riding and paying for the shuttles. And to me it depends on what we are riding if it is worth it or not, as well as whether or not we have enough people and 2 vehicles to shuttle. If you are just riding something up sand flats it is not worth the $20 shuttle, either pedal it or self shuttle if you can. My cut-off for the $20 shuttle is Hazard. I'll pay for Hazard and up, especially Burro (TWE). For me, and my dirtbag broke friends even, the convenience more than makes up for the $ on the longer shuttles. It sucks finishing a ride and having to drive an hour to go get the drop off vehicle. I've done it both ways and I've never been happier to drop $20 on a shuttle then on the TWE rides.

    And I won't use Coyote shuttle, that old army truck or beater VW van is slow and stinky. I prefer the new vans of Porcupine Shuttle.

    My $0.02

    BY
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro....

  118. #118
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    No Discrimination In Unicorn Thread Hijacks.

    It needed to happen.


  119. #119
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    Can't stop laughing. Mr. Welcorn, isn't it funny how those shows draw you in and won't let you go!? I too listen to a healthy dose of conservative comedy everyday to remind myself that Arizonan's are not the dumbest. Wait maybe we are... As far as getting ticketed and in an attempt to further derail this thread, cyclist(f'in roadies) don't get ticketed enough!!Perhaps one day the burger patty that is Phoenix will become smaller as the progressive buns that are Tucson and Flagstaff get bigger. Boy am I glad I went perusing the other forums! To any and all of you, anytime you want a guide in Tucson or surrounding areas, give me a shout and I will introduce you to the goodness that TD has no idea about(you included TD). Oh yeah, and I love Moab!

  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by slcrockymountainrider
    It needed to happen.

    Racist.

  121. #121
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    Heard about this thread over on the AZ forum.

    I'm sure the owner of Dirt Rag magazine will think it's cool he's being compared to J. Hetfield

    Yeah, this is him riding Sedona, not traildoc. Notice the pasty white east coast skin.
    Last edited by azjeff; 05-30-2011 at 08:26 PM.

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