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  1. #1
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    Utah culture?

    The social culture there is, well, a little different. While I have no predujice towards anyones faith, the Mormon influence can't be denied. I guess I'm more curious than anything how fellow mt bikers live in The area and how they like it? I suppose my question is more aimed at folks who call the southern area their home.

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    South huh? I hail from StG, where are you located? Yes, Utah culture is different and also influenced by Mormons (LDS make up over half the state's pop. and in a democracy it's easy to see the majority's influence) the same way Rome is influenced by Catholicism, Jerusalem by the Jews, or Mecca by Muslims. Where did you move from? And lastly, WELCOME!

    BTW, the attitude you bring with you determines your happiness no matter where you go, you seem to have a good one, that's great!
    I like bikes.

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    oh, woops, seems like part of my post got cut off. I actually don't live there, i just returned from a whole bunch of riding there though. More curious then anything really. Man, is the riding good!

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    I'd say the influence is harsher if you have kids in school, that's who feels the brunt of it imo. Sure there's relatively no night life and the more diverse cultural growth is severely stunted but it's not nearly as bad as it was growing up 15-20 years ago, the area has actually come quite a ways. Luckily my world centers mostly around the canyon which feels nothing like Utah. It has become extremely diverse and rather liberal over the past years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dhzion
    I'd say the influence is harsher if you have kids in school, that's who feels the brunt of it imo. Sure there's relatively no night life and the more diverse cultural growth is severely stunted but it's not nearly as bad as it was growing up 15-20 years ago, the area has actually come quite a ways. Luckily my world centers mostly around the canyon which feels nothing like Utah. It has become extremely diverse and rather liberal over the past years.

    When you say "the canyon" what do you mean?

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    Culture-wise, we're mostly a bunch of vegan hipsters that ride funny-colored fixies with really narrow bars.

    But no more "private clubs". So things do actually change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steveinslc
    Culture-wise, we're mostly a bunch of vegan hipsters that ride funny-colored fixies with really narrow bars.
    Hmmmm, not from what i saw. That's what I'M used too for better and for worse.
    Quote Originally Posted by steveinslc
    But no more "private clubs". So things do actually change.
    Saw that, suppose that's a good thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jwind
    When you say "the canyon" what do you mean?

    they mean Little Cottonwood Canyon...haven to many "non-typical" utards. also home to Alta and Snowbird, and some damn fine powder skiing.

    at any rate, having lived in (7years) and around utah (15) I can say it just..well different.
    having kids in school would be different than my non parenting experience, but it's not exactly different good or different bad. REALLY WHITE. pretty suburban, but in SLC there certainly is a diverse group of people and cultures. pretty big gay and lesbian scene in Downtown/sugarhouse area. big ole "canyon" scene complete with ex patriots from vermont,michigan,NY,washington,cali,minnesota, pretty much everywhere. The university scene. etc.
    again much different than ANYWHERE else.

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    Sorry, I should have specified, Zion. I've lived around here my whole life and have never known Little Cottonwood Canyon to be in Southern Utah, but you learn something new everyday I suppose. The small communities right outside Zion are not at all your typical Utah.

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    I think dhzion pretty much nailed it on the head.
    I moved here from Chicago right before the 5th grade right into the heart of Sandy next to the Willow Creek Country Club. One would think that with all those 'professionals', ie...doctors, lawyers, dentists and educated people that lived there there would be a bit more tollerance. Wasn't the case. I experienced more prejudice here as a kid than I saw towards the blacks when I lived in NC and GA. Don't let the glossy, dough eyed, soft voices fool you.
    In hind sight it was extremely hypocritical to have a group of people who worship a pedophile and a polygamist (Joseph Smith and Brigham Young) judge some little kid because they don't feel that adults f#cking multiple underage girls and then forcing them into marriage is a decent way to live their life. But whatever. I'm all for f#cking a bunch of girls at once but let's make certain they've held a driver's license for a couple of years and then leave after we're done.
    Then to force some pretty backwards laws (until a few days ago) as a way to punish those who don't worship those perverts seems pretty assinine. If there were any morality in the laws here they would level BYU and throw all the polygamists in prison rather than turning their back or making a small scene with a couple every decade or so. Cracks me up to see people with BYU shirts and stickers. Do you really know what it is you're promoting? Seriously. Makes about as much sense as a Southern Baptist running around with a Hustler magazine t-shirt.

    Like dhzion mentioned, it HAS gotten better and my guess is that it has to do a lot with all the people moving up the I-15 corridor from So. Cal to St. George then Cedar City, Salt Lake and finally Denver. Although that seems to have brought more than a few uptight So. Cal hikers who don't understand the concept of multi-use. Sure the night life sucks if you're into techno fancy night clubs with hoardes of hot girls, fast beats and watered down drinks. Those come and go pretty quickly (I think Banana Joe's lasted 6-8 months). I've heard from a lot of women I work with that they hate those clubs here as they can't dance without a line of little guys grinding their angry inch on their backside, dry humping them to death. I guess this is a Utah thing as they say when they go to Vegas it doesn't happen.

    One thing that is nice, is that on Sunday half the population is sitting inside a little brick building with next to no landscaping all day-in a suit and tie none-the-less. Just blows me away. You get two days off a week and you spend one of those days sitting inside with a f#cking tie on. JFC! Oh well, less people means a lot more fun so keep it up!

    Have fun on your little planet f#cking a bunch of fat chicks after you die.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by slcrockymountainrider
    I think dhzion pretty much nailed it on the head.
    I moved here from Chicago right before the 5th grade right into the heart of Sandy next to the Willow Creek Country Club. One would think that with all those 'professionals', ie...doctors, lawyers, dentists and educated people that lived there there would be a bit more tollerance. Wasn't the case. I experienced more prejudice here as a kid than I saw towards the blacks when I lived in NC and GA. Don't let the glossy, dough eyed, soft voices fool you.
    In hind sight it was extremely hypocritical to have a group of people who worship a pedophile and a polygamist (Joseph Smith and Brigham Young) judge some little kid because they don't feel that adults f#cking multiple underage girls and then forcing them into marriage is a decent way to live their life. But whatever. I'm all for f#cking a bunch of girls at once but let's make certain they've held a driver's license for a couple of years and then leave after we're done.
    Then to force some pretty backwards laws (until a few days ago) as a way to punish those who don't worship those perverts seems pretty assinine. If there were any morality in the laws here they would level BYU and throw all the polygamists in prison rather than turning their back or making a small scene with a couple every decade or so. Cracks me up to see people with BYU shirts and stickers. Do you really know what it is you're promoting? Seriously. Makes about as much sense as a Southern Baptist running around with a Hustler magazine t-shirt.

    Like dhzion mentioned, it HAS gotten better and my guess is that it has to do a lot with all the people moving up the I-15 corridor from So. Cal to St. George then Cedar City, Salt Lake and finally Denver. Although that seems to have brought more than a few uptight So. Cal hikers who don't understand the concept of multi-use. Sure the night life sucks if you're into techno fancy night clubs with hoardes of hot girls, fast beats and watered down drinks. Those come and go pretty quickly (I think Banana Joe's lasted 6-8 months). I've heard from a lot of women I work with that they hate those clubs here as they can't dance without a line of little guys grinding their angry inch on their backside, dry humping them to death. I guess this is a Utah thing as they say when they go to Vegas it doesn't happen.

    One thing that is nice, is that on Sunday half the population is sitting inside a little brick building with next to no landscaping all day-in a suit and tie none-the-less. Just blows me away. You get two days off a week and you spend one of those days sitting inside with a f#cking tie on. JFC! Oh well, less people means a lot more fun so keep it up!

    Have fun on your little planet f#cking a bunch of fat chicks after you die.

    Very entertaining post. Can't say i disagree really. I'm really not one to force my ideologies on others, let alone faith. Never mind the fact that i suppose i'm an atheist. Although extremely peculiar and way out of my scope of comprehension, i do find Mormonism very interesting exclusively from a disbelieve stand point.

    I don't have any interest in in flashy nightclubs. I do love beer and transitioning from beertopia would be toughy but certainly palatable considering the playtime opportunities.

    Being 28 and single might present some issues.

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    Couple other funny things while the subject is out there.

    Mormons outside the state are nowhere near as bad as ones in the "holy land".

    The quality of "freak" here, whether it be white trash hessians down south or mega emo techno junkies up north the religious influence imo pushes them far beyond the norm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dhzion
    Couple other funny things while the subject is out there.

    Mormons outside the state are nowhere near as bad as ones in the "holy land".

    The quality of "freak" here, whether it be white trash hessians down south or mega emo techno junkies up north the religious influence imo pushes them far beyond the norm.

    I kinda like the "freaks". Keeps things interesting and for the most part i find them pretty harmless.

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    I always wanted a pair of their magic underpants. Thought that would be a great thing to own, just as a conversation piece. When people come over, you can ask them if they want to see your special underpants.

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    I know we're different, but the truth of the matter is that by what some of you (not all of you) have said you've revealed much about your intolerance, ignorance, and character than what you've purported about LDS. There's being funny, I don't mind a jab, I'm cool if you're going to be cool, about half my biking buddies aren't LDS. Then there's being mean and offensive, and you've pushed it too far. I laugh at the phenomenon I call cyber courage, if you meet me try saying this stuff to my face, I dare you.

    Furthermore, this is a biking website, not a religious debate, keep it on subject.
    Last edited by wasea04; 07-06-2009 at 09:59 AM.
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    Flame me if you want but here is a little biking joke.

    Why do you take two Mo's with you biking?
    I you only take one he will drink all your beer at the end of the ride.
    Ha ha

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    Quote Originally Posted by slcrockymountainrider
    In hind sight it was extremely hypocritical to have a group of people who worship a pedophile and a polygamist (Joseph Smith and Brigham Young) judge some little kid because they don't feel that adults f#cking multiple underage girls and then forcing them into marriage is a decent way to live their life. But whatever. I'm all for f#cking a bunch of girls at once but let's make certain they've held a driver's license for a couple of years and then leave after we're done.
    Then to force some pretty backwards laws (until a few days ago) as a way to punish those who don't worship those perverts seems pretty assinine. If there were any morality in the laws here they would level BYU and throw all the polygamists in prison rather than turning their back or making a small scene with a couple every decade or so. Cracks me up to see people with BYU shirts and stickers. Do you really know what it is you're promoting? Seriously. Makes about as much sense as a Southern Baptist running around with a Hustler magazine t-shirt.
    Is that a big chip on your shoulder or are you just happy to see me?

    What exactly am I promoting when I wear a BYU shirt?

    Throw the polygamists in prison for what? Texas must be run my mormons, that's why that stint last year with the FLDS turned out the way it did!

    Are you seriously saying you have issues with people being in a committed relationship but you don't have issues with casual sex?
    Nothing but sincerity as far as the eye can see!

  18. #18
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    Utah is what you make of it. If you are determined to be unhappy you will be unhappy. If you are a happy person, then you are stoked.

    I am kind of sad that the private club rule has changed. I never did find the little membership fees to be particularly daunting (no worse than a $9 beer at bars in LA, for sure), and anything that keeps us weird keeps the population down.
    I only attempt to change the world in the appropriate World-Changing venues and forums.

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    exactly

    [QUOTE=chuky]Utah is what you make of it. If you are determined to be unhappy you will be unhappy. If you are a happy person, then you are stoked.

    This is what I was trying to get across at the top of this thread, the attitude you have makes or breaks you, not where you live.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruinane
    Is that a big chip on your shoulder or are you just happy to see me?

    What exactly am I promoting when I wear a BYU shirt?

    Throw the polygamists in prison for what? Texas must be run my mormons, that's why that stint last year with the FLDS turned out the way it did!

    Are you seriously saying you have issues with people being in a committed relationship but you don't have issues with casual sex?
    History is history, so own up to it. Trying to sweep it under the rug to cover up something pretty horrible IMO and then start a religion around it and force under laws a sense of morals is extremely hypocritical.
    I also find it odd when the 4th of July falls on a Sunday and it's celebrated on the 3rd or 5th or whatever. If it wasn't for the events of the 4th of July, we wouldn't be having this dialogue. If you didn't understand what I was saying that you're touting when wearing a BYU shirt, then you're just another failure of the Utah education system. Oh, we don't have a problem giving 10% of our income in membership fee's but we'll be damned if we'll spend a couple hundred dollars in taxes for our 7+ kids to improve education.

    Seems the damage has come full circle in your case both financially and intellectually.

    Actually, I don't have issues with casual sex. In fact, if I could screw a different person or more, each night I would be totally down for that. I do have issues with people being in a committed relationship when its with multiple underage girls and the person claims to be some sort of spiritual leader or whatever and then pass judgement on others.

    I recall a certain FLDS leader being tried and convicted in St. George, UT, not Texas.

    Sorry, didn't really follow your first line. Maybe try that again.

    But whatever. I really enjoy the state on Sunday when the trails are void of people.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by slcrockymountainrider
    I think dhzion pretty much nailed it on the head.
    I moved here from Chicago right before the 5th grade right into the heart of Sandy next to the Willow Creek Country Club. One would think that with all those 'professionals', ie...doctors, lawyers, dentists and educated people that lived there there would be a bit more tollerance. Wasn't the case. I experienced more prejudice here as a kid than I saw towards the blacks when I lived in NC and GA. Don't let the glossy, dough eyed, soft voices fool you.
    In hind sight it was extremely hypocritical to have a group of people who worship a pedophile and a polygamist (Joseph Smith and Brigham Young) judge some little kid because they don't feel that adults f#cking multiple underage girls and then forcing them into marriage is a decent way to live their life. But whatever. I'm all for f#cking a bunch of girls at once but let's make certain they've held a driver's license for a couple of years and then leave after we're done.
    Then to force some pretty backwards laws (until a few days ago) as a way to punish those who don't worship those perverts seems pretty assinine. If there were any morality in the laws here they would level BYU and throw all the polygamists in prison rather than turning their back or making a small scene with a couple every decade or so. Cracks me up to see people with BYU shirts and stickers. Do you really know what it is you're promoting? Seriously. Makes about as much sense as a Southern Baptist running around with a Hustler magazine t-shirt.

    Like dhzion mentioned, it HAS gotten better and my guess is that it has to do a lot with all the people moving up the I-15 corridor from So. Cal to St. George then Cedar City, Salt Lake and finally Denver. Although that seems to have brought more than a few uptight So. Cal hikers who don't understand the concept of multi-use. Sure the night life sucks if you're into techno fancy night clubs with hoardes of hot girls, fast beats and watered down drinks. Those come and go pretty quickly (I think Banana Joe's lasted 6-8 months). I've heard from a lot of women I work with that they hate those clubs here as they can't dance without a line of little guys grinding their angry inch on their backside, dry humping them to death. I guess this is a Utah thing as they say when they go to Vegas it doesn't happen.

    One thing that is nice, is that on Sunday half the population is sitting inside a little brick building with next to no landscaping all day-in a suit and tie none-the-less. Just blows me away. You get two days off a week and you spend one of those days sitting inside with a f#cking tie on. JFC! Oh well, less people means a lot more fun so keep it up!

    Have fun on your little planet f#cking a bunch of fat chicks after you die.
    fail.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by slcrockymountainrider
    History is history, so own up to it. Trying to sweep it under the rug to cover up something pretty horrible IMO and then start a religion around it and force under laws a sense of morals is extremely hypocritical.
    I also find it odd when the 4th of July falls on a Sunday and it's celebrated on the 3rd or 5th or whatever. If it wasn't for the events of the 4th of July, we wouldn't be having this dialogue. If you didn't understand what I was saying that you're touting when wearing a BYU shirt, then you're just another failure of the Utah education system. Oh, we don't have a problem giving 10% of our income in membership fee's but we'll be damned if we'll spend a couple hundred dollars in taxes for our 7+ kids to improve education.

    Seems the damage has come full circle in your case both financially and intellectually.

    Actually, I don't have issues with casual sex. In fact, if I could screw a different person or more, each night I would be totally down for that. I do have issues with people being in a committed relationship when its with multiple underage girls and the person claims to be some sort of spiritual leader or whatever and then pass judgement on others.

    I recall a certain FLDS leader being tried and convicted in St. George, UT, not Texas.

    Sorry, didn't really follow your first line. Maybe try that again.

    But whatever. I really enjoy the state on Sunday when the trails are void of people.
    Dude, I grew up in the PNW. With the exception of BYU (which is better than most schools, and likely whatever school you went to) and grad school (not in Utah), I was educated in Alaska and Washington State. So, again, explain to me the hypocracy of wearing a BYU shirt and cut the "If you don't know, I'm not gonna tell you" crap.

    If the leader (Warren Jeff's btw) was tried and convicted, what more do you want from us mormons? They aren't even a part of us anymore as they were excommunicated decades ago (I believe close to 100 years ago). BTW, you need to watch the news more. You don't remember the bruhaha when Texas DCFS came in and pulled loads out kids out of FLDS homes for weeks at a time arguing that the FLDS community as a whole was abusive instead of charging individual families/people with abuse? It was national news for weeks last spring/summer. Eventually, I think all the kids went back home with one 1 or 2 cases of abuse found. Seeing as how nationally 1 in 3 girls and 1 in 8 boys are sexually abused, it's telling that Texas wasn't able to find anything. Don't get me wrong, the FLDS practices are abhorrent to me and most mormons. Just don't think that us mormons are looking the other way or turning a blind eye. It's a problem that is obviously too great for you to understand.

    I'm not sweeping anything under the rug, I just think your understanding of history is limited and wrong as is your understanding of what it is to be a pedophile (check out the defination btw). I have no issues with polygamy. I do not think it's inherently harmful. I do think the FLDS practice of marrying off young girls is harmful and therefore bad. However, I suspect their practices are a direct result of government meddling; law of unintended consequences and all that. If you want to have sex with multiple people, who cares? Why do you care if others want to do the same and then call them their spouse?

    I agree with you that the Utah education system is lacking. The state has relied on us mormons too long to make up for deficits in their abysmal educational system.
    Nothing but sincerity as far as the eye can see!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruinane
    Dude, I grew up in the PNW. With the exception of BYU (which is better than most schools, and likely whatever school you went to) and grad school (not in Utah), I was educated in Alaska and Washington State. So, again, explain to me the hypocracy of wearing a BYU shirt and cut the "If you don't know, I'm not gonna tell you" crap.

    If the leader (Warren Jeff's btw) was tried and convicted, what more do you want from us mormons? They aren't even a part of us anymore as they were excommunicated decades ago (I believe close to 100 years ago). BTW, you need to watch the news more. You don't remember the bruhaha when Texas DCFS came in and pulled loads out kids out of FLDS homes for weeks at a time arguing that the FLDS community as a whole was abusive instead of charging individual families/people with abuse? It was national news for weeks last spring/summer. Eventually, I think all the kids went back home with one 1 or 2 cases of abuse found. Seeing as how nationally 1 in 3 girls and 1 in 8 boys are sexually abused, it's telling that Texas wasn't able to find anything. Don't get me wrong, the FLDS practices are abhorrent to me and most mormons. Just don't think that us mormons are looking the other way or turning a blind eye. It's a problem that is obviously too great for you to understand.

    I'm not sweeping anything under the rug, I just think your understanding of history is limited and wrong as is your understanding of what it is to be a pedophile (check out the defination btw). I have no issues with polygamy. I do not think it's inherently harmful. I do think the FLDS practice of marrying off young girls is harmful and therefore bad. However, I suspect their practices are a direct result of government meddling; law of unintended consequences and all that. If you want to have sex with multiple people, who cares? Why do you care if others want to do the same and then call them their spouse?

    I agree with you that the Utah education system is lacking. The state has relied on us mormons too long to make up for deficits in their abysmal educational system.
    I think you just answered and verified everything for me.

    I really like your last comment as if the State is to blame for the lackluster education system rather than the culture running it. Are you really that naive?

    I'm not certain how anyone can claim that a school who censors or fires instructors who have something to say that questions anything is a great school? Again, naive.

    If it's history you want to refer to then I suggest picking up an actual history book. Sorry, but the Book of Mormon, the Bible and supporting books are nothing but fictional works. To suggest they are fact or actual history is stretching the definition to it's limits. As far as the FLDS being ex-communicated, it goes back to the sweeping the problem under the rug. The whole premise of their faith based on the original teachings of the MoMo church. Again, naive.

    In case you haven't heard, polygamy is illegal. And if my tax dollars are going to pay for a bunch of f#cked up religious zealot's kids because daddy's spending too much money for tithing and feels he is morally right and therefore the rest of us can pick up his tab, then his a$$ needs to be thrown in jail-along with those who support him.

    All of your comments are exactly what I was talking about. The 'Church' claims they're against polygamy when it comes to embarrasing news coverage like the FLDS fiasco, but when you get down to the individual most are in full support of it-like yourself. Some pretty sweet waffling.

    And to answer your BYU shirt question: Brigham Young was a polygamist, a pedophile and a criminal ran out of the mid-west. Period. If you attended a school based on his ideals and his name then you're supporting those ideals. IMO, there is no difference between your wearing a BYU shirt and someone wearing say a Jeffrey Dahmer shirt. Same thing.

    Sorry, you can't win this debate.

  24. #24
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    BTW, there's only one difference between ideals of Catholicism, Mormonism, Presbyterians, Budhists, Islam, and Harry Potter.

    The creator of Harry Potter calls it what it is: fiction drawn up to make a profit and entertain. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Yes, I have a chip on my shoulder. If you don't like or agree with my opinions hit the Ignore button.
    Last edited by slcrockymountainrider; 07-06-2009 at 10:42 AM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    fail.
    Perhaps. But it got a reaction from Ruinane.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slcrockymountainrider
    I think you just answered and verified everything for me.

    I really like your last comment as if the State is to blame for the lackluster education system rather than the culture running it. Are you really that naive?

    I'm not certain how anyone can claim that a school who censors or fires instructors who have something to say that questions anything is a great school? Again, naive.

    If it's history you want to refer to then I suggest picking up an actual history book. Sorry, but the Book of Mormon, the Bible and supporting books are nothing but fictional works. To suggest they are fact or actual history is stretching the definition to it's limits. As far as the FLDS being ex-communicated, it goes back to the sweeping the problem under the rug. The whole premise of their faith based on the original teachings of the MoMo church. Again, naive.

    In case you haven't heard, polygamy is illegal. And if my tax dollars are going to pay for a bunch of f#cked up religious zealot's kids because daddy's spending too much money for tithing and feels he is morally right and therefore the rest of us can pick up his tab, then his a$$ needs to be thrown in jail-along with those who support him.

    All of your comments are exactly what I was talking about. The 'Church' claims they're against polygamy when it comes to embarrasing news coverage like the FLDS fiasco, but when you get down to the individual most are in full support of it-like yourself. Some pretty sweet waffling.

    And to answer your BYU shirt question: Brigham Young was a polygamist, a pedophile and a criminal ran out of the mid-west. Period. If you attended a school based on his ideals and his name then you're supporting those ideals. IMO, there is no difference between your wearing a BYU shirt and someone wearing say a Jeffrey Dahmer shirt. Same thing.

    Sorry, you can't win this debate.
    Look, if you want to base you're argument and hatred on this belief that religion is the opiate for the masses, fine. Just don't delude yourself into thinking that this will make all your points for you.

    Sure polygamy is illegal. Sure, I don't have a problem others practicing polygamy. I think you're problem is that you can't seperate child abuse from polygamy. I find it interesting that some people want to legalize same sex marriage yet they freak out about the possibility of adult, polygamous relationships. If you're one of those people, then you, sir, are the hypocrite.

    I do have a problem with the FLDS and what appears to be their incestuous relationships, coerced marriages, "lost boy" syndrome, and islolation. To compare that to mormons past and present is dishonest or naive.

    The culture running our system is a conservative/republican culture. To some extent it's tied with the mormons as many/most of our representatives are mormons. However, us mormons tend to value education highly. I just think our legistlators (yes the mormon ones) have been able to get away with low educational spending because of the high number of mormons. They know we will step in and educate our kids. I agree it's not right but it's naive and overly simplistic to suggest it's simply a mormon thing.

    BYU's law and business program is in the top 50 in the nation. I believe their accounting program is in the top 5. Sure, professors there are limited on some things they are allowed to say. The same could be said of profs at state schools. Both at state schools and at BYU, the profs are limited on what their religious subject matter is.

    I never said the bible or the bom was history. I do not believe they are history texts. I do believe they are scripture. There's a huge difference. Perhaps if you had a better educational background, you'd be able to tell the difference.

    As for the flds being based on original "momo' church: yes and no. Again, we excommunicated them. When possible, the state (and other states) tries to prosecute them. What more would you like?

    Let me get this straight, you're for jailing people with kids who receive TANF, food stamps, medicaid, and other state and federal aid? Are you serious? I agree, people have a moral obligation to support their families. Mormons have believed that from day one. This is just a small reason why we mormons consider the flds apostate (that and the fact that they practice polygamy). However, to suggest someone be jailed because they need state assitance is just stupid and shows that they don't understand the history of poverty. Why don't you read Charles Dickens of something.

    Brigham Young and the mormons were ran out of the mid-west (and murdered in case you overlooked that part of our history), not because of any lawbreaking, but because of intolerant idiots like yourself. What laws did Brigham Young break? He was practicing polygamy long before it was illegal. It was made illegal specifically because of our religious beliefs. We initially oppossed the antipolygamy laws on constitutional grounds. If you knew some of the draconian measures that were used to enforce the antipolygamy laws, you'd be oppossed to many of them as well.

    Again, you have no clue what a pedophile is. Look up the definition. Simply having sex with someone who is under 18 or who the state says is not of marrying age, does not make one a pedophile. By definition and in practice, neither Brigham Young nor Joseph Smith were pedophiles.
    Nothing but sincerity as far as the eye can see!

  27. #27
    Fragglepuss The Chaste
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    Sorry, in reality and practice Brigham Young and Joseph Smith were polygamists and pedophiles. I'm not referring to any sort of Wizard of Oz religious justification around the issues. I find it odd that you dismiss the notion that Americans found the practice of f#cking children so reprehensible that they had to make laws against it based on the practices of those two. So basically every murder up until murder was outlawed was ok, because it wasn't law yet???? Interesting. Man, that's something to be really proud of. The beliefs of the founders of my religion were so perverse they had to make a Federal Law against it. Put that medal up on the wall.

    Reading between the lines, I can only come to the conclusion that you are someone who wishes polygamy was legal as was marrying underage girls. I'm not talking about someone under 18, I'm referring to those 16 years or younger. Your last paragraph pretty much sums up the concensus I get from most people in this state and their true wishes. I would love to hear you argue that logic in court. "Well, your Honor. Sure my client married and screwed that 14 year old girl, but he's not a pedophile. He's a Mormon."

    And yes, I am against State supported child welfare when the people applying for it are sheltering their income by dumping the responsibility of the child on all those mothers who do not work and thus do not claim an income. The result are my tax dollars supporting something the polygamist father should be covering. Not tax payers.

    IMO, the Mormon 'church' has crossed so may Church vs. State lines that they should be stripped of their tax exempt status. You can try and walk around definitions but it is what it is.

    Keep running down the rabbit hole.

    BTW: You can try and throw as much crazy logic and mumbled legal jargon at this as you want, it's not going to dismiss the fact that what you've said so far screams pervert. Screw your own daughters, but stay away from the rest of us.
    Last edited by slcrockymountainrider; 07-06-2009 at 11:59 AM.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by slcrockymountainrider
    Sorry, in reality and practice Brigham Young and Joseph Smith were polygamists and pedophiles. I'm not referring to any sort of Wizard of Oz religious justification around the issues. I find it odd that you dismiss the notion that Americans found the practice of f#cking children so reprehensible that they had to make laws against it based on the practices of those two. So basically every murder up until murder was outlawed was ok, because it wasn't law yet???? Interesting.

    Reading between the lines, I can only come to the conclusion that you are someone who wishes polygamy was legal as was marrying underage girls. I'm not talking about someone under 18, I'm referring to those 16 years or younger. Your last paragraph pretty much sums up the concensus I get from most people in this state and their true wishes.

    And yes, I am against State supported child welfare when the people applying for it are sheltering their income by dumping the responsibility of the child on all those mothers who do not work and thus do not claim an income. The result are my tax dollars supporting something the polygamist father should be covering. Not tax payers.

    IMO, the Mormon 'church' has crossed so may Church vs. State lines that they should be stripped of their tax exempt status. You can try and walk around definitions but it is what it is.

    Keep running down the rabbit hole.
    I don't wish polygamy was legal. However, I'd bet money it will be in the next 10 to 20 years. How could it not be with all the court judgments that have been handed down over the years?

    In order to be a pedophile, you have to be sexually attracted to people who are not sexually developed. Generally the line is drawn at 13. By your definition, I'd bet my Yeti you are a pedophile. Don't believe me, take a plethesmograph (sp?) and see. The fact is, most hetero men are sexually attracted to developed females, even 14-16 years-old.

    The issues people had with Joseph Smith's and Brigham Young's polygamy wasn't the age of those involved, since it wasn't uncommon for 14 or 15 year-old girls to marry (I could be wrong, but I think the youngest wife was 15), it was the polygamy. On top of that, most people did not know about Joseph Smith's polygamy until we were already being persecuted and pushed out of the US. That you make it about children is dishonest since that phenomenon didn't happen until much later and until after mormons stopped practicing polygamy.

    If you can find a law to fairly go after those who abuse the welfare system, I'm with you. If you're doing it to persecute someone based on their religious beliefs, I'm not, even though I might disagree with their practices. The reality is that a lot of men have children they can't afford yet few people nowadays see the wisdom in prosecuting them. It's been tried over the years. Generally it's been a pretty draconian and immoral process. Like I said, though, if you can find a fair and moral way to do it, I'll be the first on your bandwagon.
    Nothing but sincerity as far as the eye can see!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by slcrockymountainrider
    BTW: You can try and throw as much crazy logic and mumbled legal jargon at this as you want, it's not going to dismiss the fact that what you've said so far screams pervert. Screw your own daughters, but stay away from the rest of us.
    See my post above concerning your pervert status.

    And science and reality isn't 'crazy logic' btw.
    Nothing but sincerity as far as the eye can see!

  30. #30
    Homer's problem child
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    Quote Originally Posted by slcrockymountainrider
    Sorry, in reality and practice Brigham Young and Joseph Smith were polygamists and pedophiles. I'm not referring to any sort of Wizard of Oz religious justification around the issues. I find it odd that you dismiss the notion that Americans found the practice of f#cking children so reprehensible that they had to make laws against it based on the practices of those two. So basically every murder up until murder was outlawed was ok, because it wasn't law yet???? Interesting. Man, that's something to be really proud of. The beliefs of the founders of my religion were so perverse they had to make a Federal Law against it. Put that medal up on the wall.

    Reading between the lines, I can only come to the conclusion that you are someone who wishes polygamy was legal as was marrying underage girls. I'm not talking about someone under 18, I'm referring to those 16 years or younger. Your last paragraph pretty much sums up the concensus I get from most people in this state and their true wishes. I would love to hear you argue that logic in court. "Well, your Honor. Sure my client married and screwed that 14 year old girl, but he's not a pedophile. He's a Mormon."

    And yes, I am against State supported child welfare when the people applying for it are sheltering their income by dumping the responsibility of the child on all those mothers who do not work and thus do not claim an income. The result are my tax dollars supporting something the polygamist father should be covering. Not tax payers.

    IMO, the Mormon 'church' has crossed so may Church vs. State lines that they should be stripped of their tax exempt status. You can try and walk around definitions but it is what it is.

    Keep running down the rabbit hole.
    The hate is strong in you....release your anger and complete your journey to the dark side.......


    Dang man, you sure you didn't crash and hit your head this weekend and jar loose some extra hate? I personally prefer your comical rants over this stuff.

    I find it is easier to just relax and go with the flow around here. At first when I moved out here from CO I was hellbent on trying to show the LDS folks the error of their ways, that lasted about 6 months. Now I could care less how they live their lives. To each their own. I agree with many of the others, what makes UT strange is also what keeps people out and in turn that is what makes UT cool. If UT didn't have the quirks it does this place would be so crowded it would suck.

    YMMV
    B
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro....

  31. #31
    Fragglepuss The Chaste
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bortis Yelltzen
    The hate is strong in you....release your anger and complete your journey to the dark side.......

    Dang man, you sure you didn't crash and hit your head this weekend and jar loose some extra hate? I personally prefer your comical rants over this stuff.
    Indeed this was supposed to be comical but my coffee hasn't kicked in just yet and I didn't have promiscuous sex last night-had to give the boyz a rest from all those multiple partners I have knocking on my door every night wanting to get the skank off my hang down. When Ruinane got all Johnny Cockran I just had to run with it.

    I have to admit that I get off on this stuff as it's so 'hush-hush' here. And to be honest, it's not really that big a deal until someone gets all defensive and tries to defend it-redundant. Most Mormon's don't take the time to learn their history like Ruinane did and so a lot of this won't make any sense and their belief is just that based on a simple set of principals. Which is fine and makes the world a happy place.

    However, it does scare me a bit when you have folks like Ruinane who know quite a bit of the shady side of their religion and try to twist reason around and justify it as being positive. Sorry, but just like the Inquisition it happened, it was bad and it is what it was.
    Nut up, deal with it and don't try and twist the truth around because you're going to get called out on it. Trying to prove an ideal that is not tangible is just a huge waste of time...which is what just (tried to) happened.

    And yes, I did hit my head riding. As did mr. welcorn. Which means you're next.

    BTW: There was some slammin' going on about my schooling. LDS Business College class of 2007. Took me 8 years to graduate but I feel I have a solid grasp of business and plan on opening a scrap booking store next year.

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