Please help me plan a trip to Moab!- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 59 of 59
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TrailBurner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    207

    Please help me plan a trip to Moab!

    Hi everyone,
    I've been trying to plan a trip to Moab for the past several years, and for some reason or another (usually money) it doesn't work out.

    This year, it looks like things are falling into place, and I need some help with the details.
    Thanks in advance for anything you can help me with.

    I have a voucher on Northwest Airlines, so I am locked into using them for this trip.
    I plan on flying from Detroit, MI to Salt Lake City on Sunday morning, April 15th.
    I will then rent a car or take a shuttle to Moab, which gets me into Moab at about 4:30pm.

    I will be heading back to SLC on Thursday the 19th at about 10:30am.

    That is all I've been able to piece together so far.
    My two tentative riding partners will likely not be able to attend this trip.

    So now, here are my questions:
    Most importantly, is it easy to hook up with other riders? I just don't feel safe riding in the desert on my own without ever having been there before.

    If possible, I'd like to rent a bike starting sunday afternoon, so I can get an easy ride in on Sunday afternoon. Can anyone recommend a good progression of trails to hit while I'm there? I'm a solid intermediate rider on most of our local midwest trails. ...and a little chicken hearted when necessary!

    I still need to figure out lodging and other assorted details. But mainly, am I foolish for going to Moab if I don't have other riders specifically going with me?
    are any of you available for rides on those dates?

    I'm sure I'll have lots more questions as I start sorting the details out,
    so thanks in advance for all of your help, advice, and insight!
    -Mark

  2. #2
    Bored Carp
    Reputation: chuky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,596
    Ha, Ha. I think we should change the name of this forum to the "Moab Advice Board" - or, better yet, combine this board with the Women's Lounge and call it the "How Can I get Women to Talk to Me in Moab Forum" or the "What Baggy Shorts Won't Make my Butt look Big on Slickrock Forum"

    :-)

    Most of your questions have been answered before - see below. As for riding alone, it isn't too smart. Most people don't die, but some do, eh?

    Check out Moabworld.com - you might be able to find some riders to hook up with there, or sign up for a shuttle and stick with your group. Lots of businesses offer this service.

    Cheers,
    C
    I only attempt to change the world in the appropriate World-Changing venues and forums.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TrailBurner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    207
    Ha ha! That first paragraph made me laugh out loud!
    Hey, I apologize for asking what has obviously been asked thousands of times before.
    It's just that I was planning this great trip to Moab, and the bottom fell out from underneath me.

    Now I'm left with the quandry of: do I go anyway, or scrap the trip yet again for another year. That is why I figured I need to reach out to you Moabites and find out if it's easy to hook up with a group.
    I've never been to Moab, and I won't go riding there alone. I have read through many threads in this forum over the years, and I have practicaly memorized Rider Mel's guide, but I was looking for some advice on the group rides situation.

    I will look into that website and the shuttle groups. Thanks for your advice.
    I am already sad at the prospect of having to cancel my dream mtb vacation yet again.
    At least your humor really made my day though. Thanks!
    -Mark

  4. #4
    Bored Carp
    Reputation: chuky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,596
    You should definitely go. If hook up with the shuttle groups, you WILL find someone similar in ability on these rides - Moab is pretty busy in April. Trying to set up a group ride just opens you up to more "flaking" opportunities, but a shuttle is scheduled.

    April in the desert is the best, don't miss out.

    Cheers,
    C
    I only attempt to change the world in the appropriate World-Changing venues and forums.

  5. #5
    JMH
    JMH is offline
    Sugary Exoskeleton
    Reputation: JMH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,659
    Quote Originally Posted by TrailBurner
    Now I'm left with the quandry of: do I go anyway, or scrap the trip yet again for another year. That is why I figured I need to reach out to you Moabites and find out if it's easy to hook up with a group.
    Go anyway! There is no such thing as not being able to find people to ride with in Moab! Even if you go alone without plans, at that time of year you will meet tons of people at the trailheads and on the shuttles. You're sure to hit it off with a group and have someone to ride with for the whole trip.

    JMH

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TrailBurner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    207
    Thanks for the reply.
    I am thinking that I'm just gonna go for it.
    But as you know, it just doesn't have the same appeal when you don't have your friends with you.
    ....Unless you want to ride with me! I'll be your friend! LOL

  7. #7
    ixi
    ixi is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    142
    Isn't mid April when the Jeep Safari is? If so it will be packed, which in your case won't be such a bad thing. Lots of bikers. Biking alone out there isn't such a big deal. I'm sure you'll hit the popular trails first just because it's your first time there which you should. It sure makes me smile when I hear someone's "dream vacation" is something I do when I'm bored on a weekend.

  8. #8
    JMH
    JMH is offline
    Sugary Exoskeleton
    Reputation: JMH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,659
    I am willing to bet that every weekend in March and April there will be at least one or two groups going down to Moab (or living there already) that post on this forum.

    I say: buy the tickets, plan the trip and then post up in April asking for a guide! Then mention the part about the Luxury Condo you rented for the week along with the free room and board. Oh yeah, and the beer fridge. Don't forget to mention the beer fridge.

    JMH

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    2,609

    Ok

    The Jeep Safari is the first week af April this year, so you are in luck there. However, that week you plan to be in Moab is probably going to be the second busiest of the year behind Jeep Week, so if you plan on a hotel, you should probably get a reservation ASAP and be prepared to spend $80-$100 a night. If you are alone, you could stay at the Lazy Lizard Hostel and save a ton of money, as well as probably meeting a ton of other riders. Definitely don't wait on that.

    It is a 4 hour drive to Moab from SLC if you haul ass. Even if everything goes perfectly, I doubt you'll have time to ride much in Moab on Sunday if you are planning on renting a bike. It will be dark by 6:30. If you only have an hour or so, head straight up to Slickrock, since it is the closest trail to town.

    Definitely do Porcupine, Slickrock, Sovereign/Baby Steps, Amasa Back, Poison Spider/Portal. Gemini, Klondike, Hurrah if you have time. Moab Rim if you like walking uphill.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    547
    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit

    Definitely do Porcupine, Slickrock, Sovereign/Baby Steps, Amasa Back, Poison Spider/Portal. Gemini, Klondike, Hurrah if you have time. Moab Rim if you like walking uphill.
    But not necessarily in that order

    Gemini bridges is mostly dirt road if I remember right, but I've never rode it so I am not a good source for that one.

    Klondike to me is the best trail to start people on in moab that have never been there. It's pretty easy, breaks you into the fact that most moab trails start with climbing, and get rewarded by descending. It might take you 45 minutes or an hour to get to the end of the trail and 15 to get back to the vehicle. It's short enough that you can't get in too much trouble, but still has some stuff to play on to get used to the slickrock if you've never been there. And it has dinosaur footprints how can you beat that.

    Sovereign is a great trail, it's part moab slickrock part singletrack.

    Hurrah pass is a nice ride as well though I've only driven it, that's pretty easy, you can easily get a truck up the whole trail at least to the top of the pass, the backside down I think is pretty ugly.

    Poison spider is fun, but it can be full of deep sand depending on when you go. The portal is a crazy ride, we hiked up most of it then rode poison down. I don't think I'd want to try riding down the portal.

    Slickrock is great of course, and solo it might be pretty safe as there will be a ton of people on it. There are a lot of off shoots though and all the rock can tend to look the same so it's easy to get "lost" if you don't pay attention. You should be able to hook up with riders on most of the popular trails. As for riding them by yourself, I wouldn't recommend it for most of them, especially since you've never been there. There are very few trails I'd feel comfortable riding solo out there and I've been out there a half dozen times.

    Amasa and Porcupine are my favorite trails but both of them can mess you up in a hurry if you are not paying attention. I'd say they should be the last trails you do after you are used to some of the other rides there. It's just important to know your limits and ride within them. Amasa isn't so bad, but stuff can come up in a hurry on porcupine.

    I had delusions of riding moab rim last summer, I'd still like to do it but only if I put flats on my bike with my rock climbing shoes on. One thing you learn in moab is you literally can climb things on your bike that are too steep to stand on. Especially since most cycling shoes have very hard soles that don't grip well. I've had several incidents of stalling out on a climb, unclipping and sliding down the hill because my sidi's flat out would not hold the rock at that angle. Of course I'd also like to ride porcupine "backwards" someday, now that's sick.

    There is a ton of online resources and there are some great maps you can get when you get to moab that have trail descriptions and such on them. There should be enough riders hanging around that time of year even if you just go to the trailhead you can probably meet up with riders no problem. I've never had anyone turn down having another riding partner.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TrailBurner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    207
    Well, thank you to all of you who took the time to reply to my calls for help.
    Due to your fantastic advice, I purchased the ticket tonight, so I'd just like to say:

    I'M GOING TO MOAB!!!

    I still have a lot of details to work out, and I'm still trying to get someone to go with me, but thank you all for your fantastic advice.

    If I really only have 3 riding days in Moab (mon-wed) is it worth it to drive to Fruita for one of those days?

    I'm hoping that if I pull into Moab early enough on Sunday afternoon, that I can pick up a rental bike and maybe do a shorter ride? who knows. I'll probably be exhausted from traveling.
    I figured that I should start with something easy like Gemini Bridges, and the pictures from bartlett wash look amazing. I should probably do slickrock on tuesday or wednesday, and Amasa back on the day that I don't do slickrock. Poison spider sounds awesome, but I don't know if I'm in the mood of deep sand. I have enough with the sand we have available in Michigan, and I hear it's noting compared to your sand.

    My main objectives is to get in some great riding, soak in the unbelievable views and scenery, and take photos that will blow the minds of people back home.

    I'm a little nervous that I don't have the physical capacity for strenuous riding for 3.5 days. But we'll see.
    Will a 100oz camelbak suffice in april, or do I need to carry around an additional 100oz reservoir?

    Thanks again for all of your help!

  12. #12
    dirty trail dog
    Reputation: Rebus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    601
    Quote Originally Posted by TrailBurner
    If I really only have 3 riding days in Moab (mon-wed) is it worth it to drive to Fruita for one of those days?
    My opinion is "no". I've been to both Fruita and Moab plenty of times, and I believe that there's enough to do in Moab to fill trhee days rather nicely. Besides, on a three day trip where you already have to travel from SLC to Moab and back, you don't want to spend another 3 hours in the car going to Fruita and back.

    Don't get me wrong, Fruita is great, and if you only had 3 days in Fruita, I'd say don't bother with Moab.

    Just my two cents worth. Have fun. I'm jealous. I won't be able to go back out there until September or October.
    yep...

  13. #13
    Bored Carp
    Reputation: chuky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,596
    If you get in and have limited time to ride, you can always go for a spin on Sand Flats Road - not a trail, but it is pretty. Nice to get the legs loose after traveling, and that way you can give the bike a shakedown cruise before you head out on one of your big rides. Rental bikes get a LOT of abuse in Moab, so it is good to give it a thorough test ride. Nothing worse than spending your enitre dream vaction with a bike that throws a chain everytime the suspension compresses.

    Seriously consider doing Porcupine Rim. There is a reason EVERYONE rides that trail. There are a ton of shuttle services that will help you get out to the trailhead, and the spin back into town from the finish isn't bad at all.

    Cheers,
    C
    I only attempt to change the world in the appropriate World-Changing venues and forums.

  14. #14
    Luddite technophile
    Reputation: kgginslc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    296
    You've only got a short time in Moab - I wouldn't spend any of it driving to Fruita. Make that a separate trip someday. It would be worthwhile to think about making your trip as efficient as possible. Get your hotel or campsite reserved now - double check a week or so in advance to make sure they haven't lost it. Consider bringing your bike with you instead of renting. Rentals are not cheap, and if you have your bike you can stop at Klondike Bluffs on the way to Moab and get a ride in that first evening.

    Tons of good trails, and at that time of year many of them will have lots of riders. It's very unlikely that you'll find solitude on Klondike Bluffs, Bartlett Wash, Amasa Back, Poison Spider, Porcupine Rim, Flat Pass or Slickrock. As long as you have a good guide book and reasonable sense, it's very unlikely you'll find yourself alone for long.

    Hurrah Pass, although scenic, is pretty much smooth dirt road most of the way - a nice ride, but if you're looking for technical challenge, not a good choice. If you do ride alone, I think the most important thing is to exercise reasonable care, and don't injure yourself out there.

    Also, Utahmountainbiking.com has GPS coordinates for most of the trails, so if you have a GPS and know how to use it, that should add confidence. And, I suspect most riders won't mind if an out-of-towner tags along.

    April is a great time to go to Moab - it should be a great trip.

  15. #15
    JMH
    JMH is offline
    Sugary Exoskeleton
    Reputation: JMH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,659

    Here is your Itinerary

    Okay... this is my non-scientific suggestion. Check utahmountainbiking for trail descriptions, and check with local shops for conditions.

    Sunday PM - Klondike Bluffs/Baby Steps
    The drive from Salt Lake is pleasant and not very long. A PM ride is absolutely possible, as long as you can hit the trail no later than 4 or so. This ride is short and technically undemanding, a great late afternoon ride. It's an out-and-back, so on the way back if you haven't been challenged yet, take Baby Steps. If you are tired, or are running out of light, stay on KB.

    Monday AM - Gemini Bridges. Start from the highway side and climb on up the dirt road. Out and back to GB is probably 2 hours, and it's largely smooth sailing. Take it easy on the climbs. This will leave you with energy for:

    Monday PM - Slickrock. Ride out the main trail to the junction of the main loop. You will know when you get here (about 2-3 miles out) whether you want more, or if you should head back. You don't have to ride the whole loop to have A LOT of fun. Slickrock is a TOUGH trail and takes some people 3-4 hours to complete. If you are feeling worked, head home and come back tomorrow.

    Tuesday AM - Hurrah Pass. This is a GREAT rest-day ride because it's all dirt roads. Take it easy and only go as far as you want. Maybe go back to Slickrock, but make sure to save some bullets for Wednesday. Or check out Bar M loop out by the Gemini Bridges trail head. It's a fun mellow loop.

    Wednesday AM - Porcupine Rim - I can't with good conscience tell you to skip Porcupine Rim. It is everybody's favorite for a reason and you must do it.

    If you are super tired as the days progress, take it easy! It seems like people get wasted in Moab because they jump right in above their heads on the first day, or (more commonly) they go down hard after three or four days of riding. I think most people start slow and easy, and then crank it up each day until they crash hard on the fourth day. Make sure you take it easy on Tuesday, or at least back off to save yourself for the whole trip.

    Oh, and yes, a 100oz camelback will be fine. The only time I have run out of water at a bad time was the time my wife and I rode Slickrock and Porcupine Rim as a loop through town. Someone helped us out with water before we started PR, otherwise it would have been bad.

    JMH
    Last edited by JMH; 01-25-2007 at 09:45 AM.

  16. #16
    Prez NMBA
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    719
    there may be a good reason you are flying to SLC but if you have the option of getting into grand junction, you could get a ride in there before heading on to moab, and I think the drive should be alot better too, thats what we did, then caught a ride early before we flew out again.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TrailBurner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    207
    Well everybody,
    Thanks for the sage advice. I'll skip Fruita this time around and JMH, your itinerary is really fabulous. I was thinking along those lines, but what you wrote really helps.

    Here are some clarifications to the details:
    1) I'm flying to SLC b/c that's where northwest flys. I was locked into NWA b/c of a credit voucher that I had to use.

    2) I'm still debating about bringing my bike vs. renting, but my bike is almost 10 years old, and I'm not worried about it at all for the terrain I typically ride, but I am a little nervous that beating the snot out of it on nothing but rocks (as opposed to soft dirt) will take it's toll very quickly. It's in awesome bike, but I just don't know what to expect.
    Plus, I'll have to factor in assembly and disassembly time into my already tiny vacation.



    3) If I have to rent, it means I have to drive from SLC all the way into Moab before picking up the bike, and then backtracking to Klondike bluffs. However, it still might be do-able.

    4) I've been using Rider Mel's guide (first edition) as my Moab Bible. I'll do further research so that I can proplerly put together a ride schedule for the trip.
    Of course, as the date draws closer, I'm expecting all of you to hook up with me for some rides and show me around without getting me killed by falling to my death off of some ledge!

    Thanks again for all of your responses!

  18. #18
    Luddite technophile
    Reputation: kgginslc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    296
    If you want to rent, I'd recommend reserving in advance. You may want to bring your own pedals - I'm not sure what the rental bikes have. Chile Pepper rents Santa Cruz (they may be closed right now because they are moving). Poison Spider is good, but I don't remember what they deal with right now. There are also 2-3 other rental stores in town.

    Then, don't go back to Klondike bluffs. Amasa Back/Hurrah Pass or Slickrock are both very close to town.

  19. #19
    dirty trail dog
    Reputation: Rebus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    601
    TrailBurner, if you go to Klondike Bluffs, make sure you carry some shoes in your camelbak you can hike a mile or so in, and take a bike lock. At the end of the trail, you can park your bike and hike out to the Tower Arch (thanks kgginslc ). It's totally worth it if you have time, and cannot be done in bike shoes.

    If you already knew that, then nevermind. Have a good time!
    Last edited by Rebus; 01-27-2007 at 07:44 AM.
    yep...

  20. #20
    JMH
    JMH is offline
    Sugary Exoskeleton
    Reputation: JMH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,659

    Rent something rad.

    Remember that airlines charge $50 to $100 each way to bring your bike, plus you have to assemble/disassemble, which also takes extra time and sucks to do in a parking lot somewhere. Obviously there is a lot of value to riding your OWN bike, because you will feel comfortable on it. But if you don't mind renting, it's really easy.

    Last time I brought a friend down, he reserved a Kona from Poison Spider. It took 20 minutes to pick it up and install pedals and we were back on the road. It was kind of beat up, and the shifting was annoying. But it was also their basic rental job with crappy parts. I would suggest renting a high end bike, it's only $15 more per day, definitely worth it to ride better equipment.

    Check out all the shops, they all have rental deals on sweet bikes. Try an Intense or a new Nomad. If it's your dream vacation, try renting your dream bike.

    Definitely reserve NOW to make sure they have a bike for you.

    JMH

  21. #21
    Luddite technophile
    Reputation: kgginslc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    296
    Quote Originally Posted by loadedcarp
    TrailBurner, if you go to Klondike Bluffs, make sure you carry some shoes in your camelbak you can hike a few miles in, and take a bike lock. At the end of the trail, you can park your bike and hike out to the Delicate Arch. It's totally worth it if you have time, and cannot be done in bike shoes.

    If you already knew that, then nevermind. Have a good time!
    I think you're just a little bit confused - Delicate Arch would be a very long hike from Klondike bluffs.

    Maybe Tower Arch? (https://images.google.com/imgres?img...%3Den%26sa%3DN)
    Last edited by kgginslc; 01-26-2007 at 03:56 PM.

  22. #22

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2
    I've been biking regularly in Moab for years, and I'm pretty familiar with all the trails. I really like JMH's itinerary; here's another option for you.

    Sunday PM: get into town, pick up your rental bike, and ride Slickrock that night. Depending on the time, you may just want to ride the practice loop, which is the same terrain as the full trail, just shorter.
    Monday (all day): Porcupine Rim! This is a must-do trail, and you'd enjoy it better earlier in your trip. I recommend paying for a shuttle up into the La Salle mountains and ride the Kokopelle Trail. It legthens the ride and gives you some of the most spectacular riding in the world. You'll also get some photos that your friends back home won't believe. By taking a shuttle, you'll already be with a group; never ride alone!
    Tuesday AM: Sovereign Trail. This is am out-and-back single track that is getting more and more popular each year. You can join up with a group at the trailhead and ride with them. This is probably my second favorite trail in Moab (2nd to Porcupine).
    Tuesday PM: Bartlett Wash. This trail in not far from Sovereign, which makes for more time on the bike and less time shuttling. Take a lunch with you and eat it at the base of Bartlett; there's some campsites right there. This is a huge slick rock playground and incredibly fun. There's usually a lot of people riding it, so you should find a group to join.
    Wednesday: You could pick from a number of trails to ride this day, Slickrock, Poison Spider, Amasa Back, etc. If you were feeling tired from your previous days, you could ride Gemeni Bridges, which is an easier trail, or if you still had energy you could ride a mare difficult trail, like Poison Spider. I'd also suggest getting Slickrock in either this day or early Thursday morning.

    Although I usually take my bike, I also like renting the high-end demos from the different shops. If you rent from Moab Cyclery, rent the Ellsworth Moment or Epiphany. If you rent from Poison Spider, get the Yeti 575. Both are incredible bikes!

    I go down several times a year and it seems like every trip we have lone riders joins us at a trail head or two. Last fall we met a guy from California at the trail of Porcupine Rim. He had been dropped off by his unsle, and was just waiting for a group to come by so he could join them. It was great having him with us, it's always nice getting to know other people, but it was lucky he wasn't alone. He had one spare tube on him, but he got 3 or 4 flats. Without a patch kit, he was up a creek, but being in a group he was able to use our spares. Never ride alone!

    Good luck!

  23. #23
    dirty trail dog
    Reputation: Rebus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    601
    Quote Originally Posted by kgginslc
    I think you're just a little bit confused - Delicate Arch would be a very long hike from Klondike bluffs.

    Maybe Tower Arch?
    Yeah, that one. LOL Sorry. I never made the hike, but wish I had. Then I would've known, right?

    http://users.sisna.com/archman/TowerArch.html
    yep...

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TrailBurner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    207
    Thanks for the additional input. I'll look into the two itineraries that you guys put together.
    I called today and reserved a Yeti 575 from Poison Spider Cycles.
    Based on what I've read, they seem like a great shop, but I think they could use some work on their phone mannerisms. They didn't seem all that thrilled that I was calling them to rent a bike? Anyway, at least I'm all set on the bike department.

    I'm doing some more research regarding the lodging before I make some reservations, and then I'll pretty much be all set.
    I'll continue updating this thread as the details come together. Thank you all for your help.
    It's really great!
    -Mark

  25. #25
    JMH
    JMH is offline
    Sugary Exoskeleton
    Reputation: JMH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,659
    Quote Originally Posted by TrailBurner
    They didn't seem all that thrilled that I was calling them to rent a bike? Anyway, at least I'm all set on the bike department.
    Maybe they're underpaid, and you were already phone caller number 9,000 that day!
    Shop employees are SUPPOSED to be bitter. It adds to the mystique. As long as they hook you up with a bike that works...

    JMH

  26. #26
    Andykiller
    Guest

    Smile Keep it real in Moab

    First, you should take the plane from Salt Lake International to Moab and skip the 3.5 hour drive from SLC to Moab. The cost is approximately $150 round trip. Flights leave in the morning and the evening to and from SLC and Moab. That will save you 7 hours of driving time and it is convenient as hell and you can bring your bike. I believe it is United/American West that flys to Moab. Rent a car in Moab through Thrifty or one of the others or maybe contact a shuttle service, Coyote Shuttle is one of them to pick you up. Also, they will be helpful in getting you to the trails you want to ride.

    As far as trails go, you have to ride the Slickrock Trail. But keep in mind, that even though everyone and their dog claims to have ridden this trail on mtb and wheelchair, it is a highly technical and a grueling ride. I have ridden this trail numerous times and it is simply amazing, but do not underestimate its technicality mixed with the sheer need to climb sandstone domes. You can do this trail on your own if there are plenty of other bikers on the trail, which in April there will be. Just keep your ego in check and walk obstacles that you are uncomfortable with. It may be difficult or impossible to dismount your bike in mid descent on some of the obstacles on the trail. So if in doubt, walk it until you are comfortable. There are a lot of people, experts to novices that get injured on this trail. Do not be afraid of this trail, but respect it and your limits. You may be an awesome mountain biker, but if you are tired from traveling you may be a bit more at risk. I tell you this, not to scare you, but if you are riding in the midwest or most other places in the United States, you will find that Moab is a different beast. I know many east coast mountain bikers that think they are pretty good riders until they get on the Moab terrain. Once you have ridden some of the Moab trails and feel comfortable, your skill level will be at new heights. It will take you a bit of time to get your balance right when first riding on sandstone/slickrock. Once you have your balance together, you will feel pretty good.

    Save the Slickrock trail for your second or third day in Moab. Warm up first on other trails, or give the Slickrock practice loop a try when you arrive in Moab. The practice loop gives about a 1.5 mile hint of what the full 10 miles of the Slickrock trail will throw at you and it only takes an hour to ride it, or much less. You could ride the practice loop a couple of times in the evening to get used to the slickrock and see how you will do on the full trail. Just do not understimate this trail and take plenty of water. Take at least a full camelback full of water. Remember to be patient with yourself and let your body warm up. The trail starts out fast with uphill riding. If you are in a rush, you could get hosed. And be careful to not overload your pack. If your pack is heavy, it will throw your balance off and you will really need balance on this trail.

    You should do Gemini Bridges. Take a shuttle or drive to the top and then bike on down. You can probably find someone to take you back up to your car or have the shuttle take care of one leg of your shuttle. This is an easy but rewarding trail, with one good climb to make you feel good. I have done this trail by myself several times, but you should see people on this trail to follow or hang with.

    Also, do Porcupine Rim. Again you can take the shuttle on this one and then ride into town. This is a bumpy ride, so be careful with your speeds being a first timer on this trail. Again, you will find plenty of riders on this trail, so you can probably get riding companions if you want. This is a trail where you do not want to be alone as a first timer for the simple reason that your risk of injury is higher on this trail and if you get hurt alone, or run out of water on a hot day, you could be hosed. Chances are in April that there will be plenty of bikers on the trail. This trail is not super technical but the risk factor and bumpiness of the ride and the amount of downhill makes this trail one that should not be missed, but should also be a ride to have a riding partner.

    Furthermore, Klondike Bluffs is a good trail. This trail gives you a good assortment of Moab trail conditions. I have ridden this one on my own several times. It is a fairly safe, yet challenging trail. You should see numerous bikers on this trail as well and most are helpful in you need directions or assistance.

    And finally, I suggest the Sovereign trail. This is a fun trail of singletrack, that is not to hard and not too easy. There will be other riders on the trail and it is a fairly safe ride.

    These rides are some of the classics that you should focus on. There are other trails, but these I have mentioned are some of the best, that would be a shame to not ride if you came to Moab. You could also do Poison Spider, but you might have to compete with a lot of jeeps during April on this trail and it requires a significant amount of stamina.

    In the end, do not ride alone. Some of these trails are remote and in the wilderness and you should never do them alone. But you can surely go to the trailhead in the morning and wait around for other parties to start the trail and you can follow them. If you ask, they will probably let you hang with them, unless you are a beginner. Even some of these trails that I have ridden dozens of times will trip me up and I will take a fall. So it is good to have a buddy to help you if you are in a jam. You may want to contact the bike shops and hire a guide to go with you. It would be worth it and the guides are friendly.

    As far as renting a bike, most of the bike shops are good. Try Slickrock Cycles, www.slickrockcycles.com if you want to ride a Turner Five Spot. These guys are friendly and will assist you with the shuttle. You probably should reserve your bike early, since April is a busy time for biking and some of the shops rent everything out in April.

    You may want to contact Western Spirt or Rim Tours and join one of their bike tours. That way you will have a guaranteed group to ride with and a shuttle to and from the trailheads.

    Best of everything.

    Andykiller

  27. #27
    i drink shower water
    Reputation: hab1b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,189
    You must have just caught them at a bad time. Everytime I have called them or went in asking questions they are always more than pleased to help me out. Actaully most the time when i go in to ask about somthing it turns in to a 30 minute conversation about Moab Riding and Colorado Riding.
    Prison is hard, everything else is easy

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TrailBurner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    207
    Wow Andykiller, Thank you for taking the time to type that all up. I really appreciate it.
    I am still figuring out some details about the trip, but the trails and itineraries you people have laid out are really fabulous. I will most likely be doing some kind of mixture of the trails you listed. Porcupine Rim is definitely in there based on your feedback!

    I'm still working on the subject of getting others to ride with me, but as you all have suggested, that will get easier as the date draws closer.

    Regarding grumpy bike shop people, I don't think that they were bad on the phone, but there was no enthusiasm in the guys voice whatsoever. Oh well. I'm not turned off or anything like that, it was just interesting to note.

    It has been so freak'n cold here in michigan lately, that I haven't been doing any riding at all, even though I usually brave the winters and ride anyway. It has just been downright arctic nasty. I'm actually worried that I'll be so out of shape come april, that I'll be toasted after just the practice loop at slickrock.
    I need to get my rear in gear regarding my fitness.

  29. #29
    Mojo0115
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,667
    Quote Originally Posted by TrailBurner
    Wow Andykiller, Thank you for taking the time to type that all up. I really appreciate it.
    I am still figuring out some details about the trip, but the trails and itineraries you people have laid out are really fabulous. I will most likely be doing some kind of mixture of the trails you listed. Porcupine Rim is definitely in there based on your feedback!

    I'm still working on the subject of getting others to ride with me, but as you all have suggested, that will get easier as the date draws closer.

    Regarding grumpy bike shop people, I don't think that they were bad on the phone, but there was no enthusiasm in the guys voice whatsoever. Oh well. I'm not turned off or anything like that, it was just interesting to note.

    It has been so freak'n cold here in michigan lately, that I haven't been doing any riding at all, even though I usually brave the winters and ride anyway. It has just been downright arctic nasty. I'm actually worried that I'll be so out of shape come april, that I'll be toasted after just the practice loop at slickrock.
    I need to get my rear in gear regarding my fitness.
    If you are toasted after just the practice loop at slickrock - DON'T read anything into it - it is actually some very physical riding. If you use one of the itineraries where porcupine is day two you will have plenty of time to just enjoy the downward direction and get a feel of the terrain.

    About the only advice I think may be missing is to be totally happy and comfortable walking sections that either sketch you due to fall potential or freak you due to difficulty. Treat the visit as a taste of what is possible - not a visit to accomplish everything first attempt (unless of course you come from hans rey pedigree).

    Enjoy - it will be an absolutely great trip!

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    8,517

    Winter training off the bike

    Quote Originally Posted by TrailBurner
    Wow Andykiller, Thank you for taking the time to type that all up. I really appreciate it.
    I am still figuring out some details about the trip, but the trails and itineraries you people have laid out are really fabulous. I will most likely be doing some kind of mixture of the trails you listed. Porcupine Rim is definitely in there based on your feedback!

    I'm still working on the subject of getting others to ride with me, but as you all have suggested, that will get easier as the date draws closer.

    Regarding grumpy bike shop people, I don't think that they were bad on the phone, but there was no enthusiasm in the guys voice whatsoever. Oh well. I'm not turned off or anything like that, it was just interesting to note.

    It has been so freak'n cold here in michigan lately, that I haven't been doing any riding at all, even though I usually brave the winters and ride anyway. It has just been downright arctic nasty. I'm actually worried that I'll be so out of shape come april, that I'll be toasted after just the practice loop at slickrock.
    I need to get my rear in gear regarding my fitness.
    I'm in Colorado and there's no riding on dirt here, either, and I don't ride roads. So...one thing I do to work on my leg strength (besides the gym) is...I find the tallest building around and hike up the stairs two at a time all the way to the top, back down, back up...till I just can't climb anymore. It sort of emulates the pedaling motion and two at a time works the glutes as well. I've given this advice many times and have no idea how many people take me up on it, but it works for me. When the trails dry out and I'm grinding straight up some climb at least I'm more ready for it than if I rode some flat bike path or nothing at all.

    In fact, do them three at a time to get ready for Slickrock!!

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TrailBurner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    207
    Well, hello everybody.
    Long time no post!
    My trip is drawing closer and now it is time to start soliciting some rides out of you people!

    I have some friends that are heading over from Boulder, CO to ride with me on Monday, (I don't know where we plan on riding) but Tue, Wed, or Thurs morning are still open.
    Are any of you available to hook up for a ride and show me the sights?

    I'm an intermediate rider here in the midwest. Not too fast, not horribly slow. I have no idea how that will translate to Moab riding and the higher altitudes, but it shouldn't be too bad.
    You can even call it a recovery ride for yourself!
    Please let me know if you're available for Porcupine Rim, Sovereign, Slickrock, or any of the other classics.

    Additionaly, Maybe I'll do a small hike on Sunday afternoon when I arrive, if someone can recommend a good shorter hike for a sunday afternoon. I have to reread all of the above posts to review what you all have already suggested.
    Thanks for all of your help!

  32. #32

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2

    Delicate Arch

    Hike Delicate Arch in Arches on Sunday afternoon.

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    8,517

    A shorter closer hike is

    Negro Bill Canyon off of 128 about 5 minutes out of Moab. Or Corona Arch out on the Potash Road maybe 10 minutes. Delicate Arch is good but you have to pay to get into Arches and then the roads will probably have a lot of traffic.

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TrailBurner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    207
    Thank you for the hike suggestions.
    Well now that that's all taken care of, there's only one thing missing:
    Who of all you wonderful people is available for a ride during that week?
    You don't want want me to ride all by lonesome, do you? That would make me very sad.
    Please don't make me sad.
    But seriously, Is anyone available for a ride?
    Thanks for all of the help you have provided thus far.
    -Mark

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Evil Patrick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    2,747

    Uhh...piggy-backing on your thread

    Is there nothing worth riding somewhere between SLC and Moab?

    Ideally, there's a 4.5+ chillies rated trail about 2 hours into that drive. (HA! Yeah, RIGHT!)

    No dice? Anything close?
    -- Evil Patrick

    Some of my Music

    My Videos

    The trail...shall set you free.

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TrailBurner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    207
    Hello everybody!
    Just a friendly reminder that I would really appreciate some riding buddies this coming week. I mean REALLY REALLY appreciate it.
    ....with a cherry on top!
    But seriously, are any of you available for a ride this coming week?
    Thanks!
    -Mark

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    409
    Rent something you have always wanted to ride but never thought you could afford to buy and let it rip

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TrailBurner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    207
    No problem! are you riding with me?

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    409
    I wish I could but I will not be able to make it

  40. #40
    JMH
    JMH is offline
    Sugary Exoskeleton
    Reputation: JMH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,659
    Mid-week is tough for us working stiffs! But here is a pic taken near the end of porcupine rim to get you ready...

    JMH
    Attached Images Attached Images

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TrailBurner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    207
    Wow. Great picture!
    I figured that it would be hard to get a riding partner for the middle of the week.
    I'm packing right now (leaving to the airport at 4:50am) and I'm actually nervous and anxious.
    ...thrilled and exhilirated to finally be making this trip, but nervous and anxious that my riding ability won't be up to snuff, and I'll just sit there at the top of some dowhnhill section too chicken to ride it.

    I keep having visions of myslef stalling out on an uphill climp on slickrock and then just sliding all the way back down and cutting myself to shreds on the rock. Yikes!

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CrashTheDOG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,513
    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    But here is a pic taken near the end of porcupine rim to get you ready...
    Good stuff. Is that of the Bodybag. I've yet to even find the courage to attempt that yet. Someday... someday....

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TrailBurner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    207
    Well,
    Here I am!!!
    I had a beautiful drive from SLC, and I'll probably do something small this afternoon, i.e. Delicate Arch or similar.
    My riding buddies have something planned for tomorrow, but Tuesday and Wednesday are open for you guys to step up to the plate and show a visitor around!
    Are any of you available for some of the easier / shorter rides after work?
    I'd be open to an afternoon ride provided I'm not spent from the morning.
    Thanks,
    Mark

  44. #44
    JMH
    JMH is offline
    Sugary Exoskeleton
    Reputation: JMH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,659
    I dunno, Crash... It's where the trail drops down into the wash about a mile from the bottom... this trip was the first time I even FOUND the way down! Before that I thought it was the 6' huck into a boulder pile about 20 feet to the right in this pic... no way.

    This route is steep (the TRAIL sign is vertical, for reference) but pretty smooth.

    JMH

    Quote Originally Posted by CrashTheDOG
    Good stuff. Is that of the Bodybag. I've yet to even find the courage to attempt that yet. Someday... someday....

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Evil Patrick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    2,747
    Quote Originally Posted by Andykiller
    First, you should take the plane from Salt Lake International to Moab and skip the 3.5 hour drive from SLC to Moab. The cost is approximately $150 round trip. Flights leave in the morning and the evening to and from SLC and Moab. That will save you 7 hours of driving time and it is convenient as hell and you can bring your bike. I believe it is United/American West that flys to Moab. Rent a car in Moab through Thrifty or one of the others or maybe contact a shuttle service, Coyote Shuttle is one of them to pick you up. Also, they will be helpful in getting you to the trails you want to ride.

    Just out of curiosity though, even though you cut out 7 hours of (ugh) driving, how long is
    the flight? You know, including security check, waiting at the gate and sitting on the plane
    as boarding completes will probably eat up 2 hours, minimum. Then, you have to pick up
    your bike at the bagage claim and go get the rental - say, another 30 to 45 minutes. Add
    the flight time, multiply by 2 to get the round-trip time and we're getting close to the same
    over-all loss of time that driving imposes. Granted, it eliminates the driving.
    -- Evil Patrick

    Some of my Music

    My Videos

    The trail...shall set you free.

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TrailBurner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    207
    Well, I hiked to delicate arch last evening and it was stunning! The whole Arches national Park was just amazing. I couldn't get my jaw off the floor while I was driving through there!

    This morning, my buddies took me to Slickrock (riding all the way from town no less) and we did the practice loop and the main loop (going the easy direction) to a little bit past where it is "3.5" painted on the rock. Then we turned back b/c I was having such a difficult time, my friends thought that I wasn't going to make it before it started raining.
    We just got back a half hour ago.
    I had an awesome time and the downhills were fabulous (oonly two of them frightened me into walking), but the climbing got to me. My lungs and chest were hurting more than my legs. I'm simply not in enough shape to do the whole thing at this point.
    I accepted my defeat for today, and it gives me a goal for the next time I return.
    Based on my performance on the bike today, I think I will try to do some easier rides such as Gemini bridges or Klondike Bluffs, etc.
    I think Porcupine Rim is out as well. I'm just not physically up to it yet. This kind of riding is even more difficult after being off of the trails for 4 months due to the yucky winter and way freezing temps we had this year in Michigan.
    If anyone can recommend some easier classic rides, I will look into them.
    Is Sovereign easier than slickrock? I'd like to do that if I'm able to.

  47. #47
    JMH
    JMH is offline
    Sugary Exoskeleton
    Reputation: JMH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,659
    Quote Originally Posted by TrailBurner
    Is Sovereign easier than slickrock? I'd like to do that if I'm able to.
    Don't worry, stick to your guns.

    Slickrock is unique, and lots of people don't like it because it's so... Slickrock-ish... few of the other trails have the repetitive nature and unrelenting climb/descend/climb/descend. And if your fitness is not great, you will do plenty of gasping for air at the top of each steep hill. If you didn't enjoy it, that doesn't mean that you wouldn't be great on the other trails. Porcupine has a tough climb for the first hour, but nothing steep like Slickrock. It's a much more familiar style of riding. I still recommend you ride it tomorrow.

    Sovereign is tough also, but again, it is more like a trail than slickrock. Gemini Bridges is beautiful, but it's just a dirt road. Same goes for Klondike Bluffs, but there is a bit more excitement there, especially if you come back on Baby Steps.

    JMH

  48. #48
    "Its All Good"
    Reputation: Whafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,683
    TrailBurner. I would still for sure do Porcupine Rim, see if the shuttle will take right to the top where the cattle stop is. It is not a hugely strenious ride. So so worht it, you can go as hard and as fast as one likes. The breath taking views make it worhwhile, we breath taking for a kiwi from New Zealand....
    Attached Images Attached Images
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TrailBurner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    207
    Hmmmmmm.......
    I will have to take advice of both of you into account. Thanks. Sweet pic BTW!
    I tried to call around and find a shuttle to take me to Gemini Bridges tomorrow, but no company had any trips planned. What a bummer. I even contemplated leaving my car at the bottom, riding up via the road to the trailhead. I did it in my car tonight just to see what it's like and it's 15 miles along the beautiful 313, but there is some major climbing.
    I need somehting more recovery-ish before I attempt one last ride on Wednesday.

  50. #50

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    18
    I'd recommend not wasting your time with Gemini. It really is just a dirt road. Klondike has enough to keep it more interesting. If you do klondike, make sure you don't park at the highway. Drive in to the "real" trailhead so you don't waste your time/energy riding the dirt road. Also, right near the start there's a long sandy section. Don't let this discourage you, the rest of the ride is sand-free.

    Do porcupine. Seriously. Pay the extra few dollars to get the shuttle all the way up to LPS (the cattle guard). You get a little extra riding in, and don't have to do the climb. Don't worry about the difficulty. Beginners on hardtails do this ride all the time, they just walk a little bit more than other people. If you have a good bike and even a small amount of technical ability you'll ride 95% of the trail. Most of the big ledge drops and stuff are actually off the side of the main trail, so you don't have to worry about hitting them.

    I'm working every day this week, but I might be able to make it out for an evening ride one day. Send me a PM with your cell number and I'll give you a call if I get a chance.

    -Zach

    ps If you're looking to do something off the bike one day, and want to see a part of Arches that not many people get to see, check out Desert Highlights. I have a trip going into Dragonfly Canyon on Thursday that has room. I'd hook you up with a deal if you want to go.

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TrailBurner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    207
    Thanks Zach,
    I'll pm you my cell number.
    Tuesday and Wednesday afternoon are the only days I have left in Moab.
    I gotta head back to SLC on Thursday at about 10:00 or so.
    Thanks!

    Some picures from my trip so far:
    Attached Images Attached Images

  52. #52
    Ridin in UT
    Reputation: Rubber Side Down's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    98
    Mark - awesome shots! Looks like you're having a grand time down there. sorry, I'm late to catch up on this thread but I am really happy that you're having a blast!

    Sorry but riding Slickrock from town is just stupid for your first ride in utah. I don't know what your riding buddies were thinking. I'm accustomed to the altitude and I don't think I'd want to do it Some friends huh!? just kidding, I'm just poking fun - and yeah don't worry about bailing on Slickrock. For some reason people think Slickrock = fun family ride, but it is anything but. As you've found out, it is a hard trail!

    Hope you escaped the nasty weather today and had another good ride. I wish I could've joined you down there but it really wasn't in the cards for me to be away from work this week.

    Be sure to post up some more pics of your trip. Maybe next time Tam and I can come down to join you!

    By the way, when do you fly out of Salt Lake?

    later! Ian

  53. #53
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TrailBurner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    207
    Hi Ian,
    Yeah, bummer that you guys couldn't ride with me this time.
    I fly out of SLC tomorrow (Thursday) at 6:00pm.
    Yesterday, I rode Klondike Bluffs and Dalton Wells. I was just looking for some easy riding to rest up after slickrock.
    Today, thanks to the great advice from the people on this board, I rode Porcupine Rim!
    It is definitely one of the best rides I've ever done! with 50 mph winds to add some spice!
    I did take the shuttle to the LPS (Lower Porcupine Singletrack) starting point to avoid the first 4.5 miles of climbing though. What a great trail.
    y'know, Slickrock is the kind of trail that I can check off of my list of things to do before I leave this world for good, but porcupine rim is a trail that I would like to ride many more times. Both are awesome, but Porcupine wins hands down.

    I'm going to post some more pics from my trip:
    Attached Images Attached Images

  54. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TrailBurner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    207
    And some Porcupine Rim pictures from today:
    Attached Images Attached Images

  55. #55
    mtbr member
    Reputation: KRob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    12,053
    Glad to see you hit porc rim. It would've been a travesty of the worst kind if you had traveled clear to Moab from back east and missed the Porc. I mean the scenery is fine on Gemini Bridges and Klondike Bluffs and stuff.... but the scenery is only part of the package. It's all about the ride.

    Very good photos btw.
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
    Isaiah 58:14

    www.stuckinthespokes.com

  56. #56
    Ridin in UT
    Reputation: Rubber Side Down's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    98
    Yeah great pics Mark! I agree with you about Slickrock.. it's definitely fun and you definitely need to ride it before you die, but PORCUPINE.... now there's some fun I'd like to have 1000 times before I die

    I'm really glad you had such a great time out here. What's your plan for today? I only work a few miles from the airport. give me a call if you get a chance. 801.536.0416

  57. #57
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    909
    Three page thread and no one has recommended Gold Bar Rim?

  58. #58
    Prez NMBA
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    719
    goldbar is tough to follow for a seasoned veteran, I would never recommend a nubie to the area, by himself trying to navagate that. although it is a great ride if you can figure it out along the rim

  59. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TrailBurner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    207
    Ok. I think this is going to be the last post in this thread.
    I just wanted to thank you all for your fantastic advice. I had a GREAT time and I really appreciate all the advice that you all took the time to type out and reply.

    Here is my full write up with pics in the Passion section of these forums:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=293189

    Thanks again!!!
    -Mark

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.