The Palisade Plunge - 32mi, 6K ft, killer trail, ITS MONEY TIME- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    The Palisade Plunge - 32mi, 6K ft, killer trail, ITS MONEY TIME

    Cross posting for someone else.... For those interested in another (hopefully) epic option in your general vicinity check out the information and if you are so inclined, we'd be glad to accept a few bucks as we only have 11 days to hit our first matching grant. Look at it this way...... not only can you come ride it yourself, but there'll be fewer of us coming over to clog up TWE.... win/win right? If nothing else just check it out and spread the word.

    ------------------------------------

    The time to start raising money for the Palisade Plunge trail is here. The Environmental Assessment is signed, plans are laid, and construction is planned to begin in Spring 2019. Funding is critical, and match $ are hyper critical right now

    DONATE BEFORE July 29 !!

    Power the Plunge - COPMOBA

    Let's build some trail! COPMOBA

    Palisade Plunge- Mtbr.com

  2. #2
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    Thanks again to anyone who donated to help get Phase I going.... it helped! During the Phase I drive, we crushed our $30K goal by raising about $68k. Shows there was some real excitement for this trail. Some of that $$ was carried over to Phase II as it came in after our deadlines for matching funds. As such, our matching goal is less this time around. Short version = Phase I construction is starting & time to start raising matching funds for Phase II!

    ---------------------------------

    Years of work are coming to fruition - COPMOBA and partners are excited to announce that Phase I construction of the Palisade Plunge begins this week! When complete, the Plunge will be 32 miles of amazing singletrack with 6000' of downhill while riding off the Grand Mesa with stunning views over the entire Grand Valley all the way to Palisade! Phase I includes roughly the lower half of the route, and will be the bottom 17 miles of savory singletrack!

    With construction kicking off and a groundbreaking ceremony coming up, exciting progress is being made! On top of that, we are kicking off our Power the Plunge fundraising campaign for Phase II of construction!

    Phase II will be construction of the upper half of the route, and our goal is to raise $15,000 to go toward required grant match dollars to fund trail construction and to support future maintenance requirements.

    When complete, the Palisade Plunge will connect the top of the Grand Mesa (10,700') to the Town of Palisade, CO, (4,700') via 32 miles of sweet riding backcountry singletrack - yes, 6000' of relief, and the style of trail you've come to expect from COPMOBA. The Plunge route also connects with miles and miles of existing awesome trail, and passes through stunning back-country terrain that most riders only dream of. The final connection into downtown Palisade and all the fun amenities there completes via a paved path, and on to the Colorado Riverfront Trail for further connectivity.

    Due to the scale of the trail and the terrain through which it will be built, as well as additional parking, trailhead, restroom facilities, and a final paved path section, this project cost is estimated at ~$3.43M. We are obtaining the vast majority of this funding through various grant options, but it is critical that the mountain bike, run, and walk community is able to support the project through a locally driven fundraising campaign. Those grants require matching dollars, and now is the time to pitch in!

    The Power the Plunge campaign is the best opportunity for individuals and businesses to donate to this project. Whether you donate $25, $500, or anything in between, every contribution matters. You can donate at any level, at any time, and as often as you'd like. Our goal is to raise $15,000 to Power the Plunge - Phase II, and we can only do it with your help!

    Click below for more details and to help Power the Plunge today! After you've donated, please share this post to help spread the word.

    https://www.copmoba.org/powertheplunge

    https://www.copmoba.org/PowerThePlunge-FAQ

  3. #3
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    Done. Thanks for the heads up. Sounds like a great trail! Ill share on FB.


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  4. #4
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    Thanks KRob. Can't wait to ride it! Not only a great downhill hopefully, but gonna bring in a lot of cool ride options between the Mesa and town.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cobi View Post
    Plunge will be 32 miles of amazing singletrack with 6000' of downhill

    I'm sensing a theme with this.

    And I can't see where it's going to change. This project is going to get pushed, pushed, pushed as a shuttleable DH track, and within a few years of it's inception very few will think of it as anything but a gravity trail.

    Short term pushes for money yield long term results. And maybe not always the ones we envisioned.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I'm sensing a theme with this.

    And I can't see where it's going to change. This project is going to get pushed, pushed, pushed as a shuttleable DH track, and within a few years of it's inception very few will think of it as anything but a gravity trail.

    Short term pushes for money yield long term results. And maybe not always the ones we envisioned.
    Maybe they could use some help with how they're marketing the project?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I'm sensing a theme with this.

    And I can't see where it's going to change. This project is going to get pushed, pushed, pushed as a shuttleable DH track, and within a few years of it's inception very few will think of it as anything but a gravity trail.

    Short term pushes for money yield long term results. And maybe not always the ones we envisioned.
    It's what the people want. Another TWE. Because we all got into mountain biking to ride in crowds of people unloading out of 20 passenger vans.

    I know, criticizing TWE. Blasphemy. It is a great trail. But the entire experience wasn't quite as great.

  8. #8
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    Tough crowd. My hat's off to COPMOPA for coming up with the concept, getting it through NEPA as a partner with the land manager(s), and now implementation. You guys do realize this is mostly, if not all, volunteer driven?

    The sounds of crickets. Get involved if you don't like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Tough crowd. My hat's off to COPMOPA for coming up with the concept, getting it through NEPA as a partner with the land manager(s), and now implementation. You guys do realize this is mostly, if not all, volunteer driven?

    The sounds of crickets. Get involved if you don't like it.

    From a certain perspective you're right.

    But it is (in this case as in many) much, much more nuanced than that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    From a certain perspective you're right.

    But it is (in this case as in many) much, much more nuanced than that.
    Yeah, probably so. But it appears there are (will be) numerous ways to make loops out of parts of the 30 mile alignment, no?

    Anyhow, I'm not sure TWE is a good comparison. How about MAG7? It was pushed as a somewhat directional descent with a finish on Portal but lots of folks use it for loop options in either direction on the upper half. I just know how hard it is to get stuff like this approved and then even harder to pay for it. And we just lost 19 miles of trails in the Museum Fire so I'm grumpy.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I'm sensing a theme with this.
    A theme....? Maybe because I copy/pasted from the original thread & press release? Your concern was heard and addressed by Scott and myself in the main thread, yet you seem to want to criticize at every opportunity.
    https://forums.mtbr.com/colorado-wes...e-1003841.html

    If you would like to rewrite the press-release to something more palatable to you, go for it. I will attempt to go back and edit all posts to your liking if it will make you happy.

    This is the elevation profile, with easy access from an existing trail head right on a hwy. I think it's rather obvious how the "bulk" of users are likely to use this. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it...... Yet, it is in fact a two-way trail and will offer epic loop options for those who wish to climb it or portions of it. To seemingly insist we avoid marketing the downhill aspect seems like you're just trying to be pedantic or contrarian.
    The Palisade Plunge - 32mi, 6K ft, killer trail, ITS MONEY TIME-elev_profile.jpg

    "Please donate to help build a 32 mile uphill trail with 8,000 feet of climbing........" I can't wait to see the $$ just come pouring in on that.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobi View Post
    I think it's rather obvious how the "bulk" of users are likely to use this. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it......
    Especially if the local bike shops suddenly have a fleet of 20+ vans running up the hill multiple times a day.

    Yeah it is obvious how the bulk of users will ride the trail. I just hope it doesn't turn into a complete circus like the TWE has become. Not holding my breath there, though...

    I'll be interested to see how the seasonal and possible wildlife closures will play into usage. Perhaps before snow melts up top it will be an out and back from the bottom. Can't see wanting to climb it in heat of summer which is when temps would be nice at elevation anyways. Regardless, hopefully it is built so that it is a fun climb too so that people who want to climb can climb it, and so it can handle shuttle traffic without turning into a blown out mess. Put some tough climbs on the descent too, to make riders earn that descent!

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    Add me to the list of people who will drive a thousand miles, and spend a thousand dollars or more visiting Fruita/GJ, ride all the classics, and definitely will want to shuttle the Palisade Plunge.

    It's fine with me if people want to ride up the trail, but as a "once every couple years" type of visitor, I'll be stoked to jump out of a white shuttle van, get a selfie at the trailhead, and have a great day of riding mostly downhill. ...it's an option that doesn't exist at home...

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    Quote Originally Posted by cobi View Post
    Your concern was heard and addressed by Scott and myself in the main thread, yet you seem to want to criticize at every opportunity.

    Well, you paid brief lip service to that concern, and then -- seemingly moments later -- reverted to referencing it as a DH trail.

    Honest question: How will it ever become known as anything other than a DH trail when you only ever advertise it as a DH trail?

    There's nothing wrong with DH trails -- just call them what they are and take the $ and volunteer labor from those that have a full understanding of what they're signing up for.

    What you've been doing of late is not that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uberstein View Post
    Add me to the list of people who will drive a thousand miles, and spend a thousand dollars or more visiting Fruita/GJ, ride all the classics, and definitely will want to shuttle the Palisade Plunge.

    It's fine with me if people want to ride up the trail, but as a "once every couple years" type of visitor, I'll be stoked to jump out of a white shuttle van, get a selfie at the trailhead, and have a great day of riding mostly downhill. ...it's an option that doesn't exist at home...
    I call shotgun!!! People are more than welcome to ride up if they want, just like .0005%'ers that do the same for TWE, Alpine Trail in Oakridge, Palm Canyon Epic in SoCal, Downieville in.......Downieville and the Cannell Plunge in Kernville (CA).
    Carpe Diem!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by k2rider1964 View Post
    People are more than welcome to ride up if they want, just like .0005%'ers that do the same for TWE, Alpine Trail in Oakridge, Palm Canyon Epic in SoCal, Downieville in.......Downieville and the Cannell Plunge in Kernville (CA).
    I'd ridden up Alpine Trail a dozen+ times -- usually with a group of friends -- a decade+ before I'd ever heard the term "shuttle monkey".

    Ditto with TWE -- we were climbing it more than a decade before it was known by that name.

    Like I said, there's nothing wrong with DH trails. But pre-publicizing a two-way trail -- before it's even built -- by only calling it out as a DH trail just isn't right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I'd ridden up Alpine Trail a dozen+ times -- usually with a group of friends -- a decade+ before I'd ever heard the term "shuttle monkey".

    Ditto with TWE -- we were climbing it more than a decade before it was known by that name.

    Like I said, there's nothing wrong with DH trails. But pre-publicizing a two-way trail -- before it's even built -- by only calling it out as a DH trail just isn't right.
    Look dude, if a 30 mile long trail has a profile that looks like a slice of pie, the *vast* majority of riders are going to shuttle it. You need to get over it.

    Yeah, you be as bad as shit because *you* are going to ride it uphill. Hope your ego was sufficiently stroked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Look dude, if a 30 mile long trail has a profile that looks like a slice of pie, the *vast* majority of riders are going to shuttle it. You need to get over it.

    Yeah, you be as bad as shit because *you* are going to ride it uphill. Hope your ego was sufficiently stroked.

    You completely missed the point. I have no ego about riding because I have no reason to have an ego about riding. I am, at best, an average rider.

    The point is that not very long ago, people climbed everything they descended. It wasn't a big deal, there wasn't any ego involved. It was just riding.

    Shuttling is a relatively new thing, and apparently sufficient to make whole communities whore themselves out while chasing the almighty dollar, in exchange for losing the very soul that they may not have even known they had.

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    Well shoot I remember shuttling in the 90s. Monarch Crest to Rainbow. Dr.'s Park because I'm weak. 2-Elk in Vail. Black Mtn in Jackson. Wasatch Crest. Porcupine Rim in the late 80s. Yeah, those can all be pedaled by the 1%'rs.

    I see what mikesee is getting at but the sport has changed. Bikes are so much more capable now and design emphasizes the down-factor. And they all climb pretty good but riders are looking for trail diversity and not always finding it. I think the Palisade Plunge is something to be celebrated and I don't care how it's marketed to garner the funds to build it but I'm not a local either.

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    Cobi,

    This trail will be a great addition, thanks for all your hard work to make it happen!!! Sounds like a rad time... Hope theres some steep and rowdy sections.

    Looking forward to shuttling the shit out of it with all my homies. Lame theres elitist d!kheads that gotta suck the fun outta everything.

    good luck,

    -d

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I'd ridden up Alpine Trail a dozen+ times -- usually with a group of friends -- a decade+ before I'd ever heard the term "shuttle monkey".

    Ditto with TWE -- we were climbing it more than a decade before it was known by that name.

    Like I said, there's nothing wrong with DH trails. But pre-publicizing a two-way trail -- before it's even built -- by only calling it out as a DH trail just isn't right.
    you used to ride all of what's now called TWE, from the bottom of Porc Rim all the way to the top of Burro Pass?!? how long time -wise was that? would/could you do it now if it was as free of rider's as it was then?
    breezy shade

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    you used to ride all of what's now called TWE, from the bottom of Porc Rim all the way to the top of Burro Pass?!? how long time -wise was that? would/could you do it now if it was as free of rider's as it was then?
    you do realize who Mike See is right???


    Mike your not "exactly" a average rider... your pain cave probably a lil deeper than most
    I dig dirt!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaFred View Post
    you do realize who Mike See is right???



    Mike your not "exactly" a average rider... your pain cave probably a lil deeper than most
    """no bottom"""

    """oh ya, i absolutely do. i've been to his website & read about & watched his videos. inhuman stuff. i really don't doubt for a second that he & his partners did. i was thinking he might answer my ?'s just to see what kind of time something like that took. and, to see if he would do it now, or do it if he was 30 years younger in this time of a thousand people riding against him. i'm one that has total respect for his accomplishments. just can't relate at all, since i'm soo far from his capabilities. """
    breezy shade

  24. #24
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    The percentage of people on the planet that can ride TWE as a loop is infinitesimally small. Not even 1%r's. More like 1% of 1%.

    That begs the question on a trail project of this scope do you account for that percentage of the user group? It's a good question. We all have the right to seek our own path for recreating on public land. It's not really a question of who's choice is more appropriate; rather what's the best way to get this thing off the ground, approved, and paid for. I see Mikesee's points but he is such a small minority it is hard to give credence to. The accusation that COPMOPA is "whoring themselves out" by selling it as a descending trail is a huge stretch IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    The percentage of people on the planet that can ride TWE as a loop is infinitesimally small. Not even 1%r's. More like 1% of 1%.

    That begs the question on a trail project of this scope do you account for that percentage of the user group? It's a good question. We all have the right to seek our own path for recreating on public land. It's not really a question of who's choice is more appropriate; rather what's the best way to get this thing off the ground, approved, and paid for. I see Mikesee's points but he is such a small minority it is hard to give credence to. The accusation that COPMOPA is "whoring themselves out" by selling it as a descending trail is a huge stretch IMO.
    Id be willing to bet that the majority of people on the board could do it, unless they have a physical disability of some sort.

    The human capacity for endurance is pretty amazing. The problem is that many people will quit on themselves long before their body will give in. People are just afraid of a little physical discomfort.

    Meanwhile, America gets fatter and fatter...


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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Id be willing to bet that the majority of people on the board could do it, unless they have a physical disability of some sort.

    The human capacity for endurance is pretty amazing. The problem is that many people will quit on themselves long before their body will give in. People are just afraid of a little physical discomfort.

    Meanwhile, America gets fatter and fatter...


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    No, the difference is most on this board ride for different reasons than wanting to climb 7000' on roads. Or, an out and back on the trail itself but that is even less appealing to me. Even for Mikesee that's a 10 or 12 hour day. Personally my taint can't take it. But for sure, long live the long ride!

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    The percentage of people on the planet that can ride TWE as a loop is infinitesimally small. Not even 1%r's. More like 1% of 1%.

    That begs the question on a trail project of this scope do you account for that percentage of the user group? It's a good question. We all have the right to seek our own path for recreating on public land. It's not really a question of who's choice is more appropriate; rather what's the best way to get this thing off the ground, approved, and paid for. I see Mikesee's points but he is such a small minority it is hard to give credence to. The accusation that COPMOPA is "whoring themselves out" by selling it as a descending trail is a huge stretch IMO.

    I don't agree with the "1% of 1%" guess at all. I'm old, slow, 10# (ok ok ok -- 15#) overweight, with creaky joints, and am not particularly interested in all day epics anymore. But I could still do it if I wanted to.

    That right there is the key.

    We as a society have been so completely pandered to that it's hard to find people that even realize you *can* do things like that -- 95% of it is wanting to, the other 5% is having a modicum of patience to get it done.

    I don't think I ever said that COPMOBA was whoring themselves out. It just sort of feels like a bait and switch: Emphasize two-way traffic to build enough momentum to get it off the ground, then when you need more $ pander to the least common denominator and cry "shuttle route" from the rooftops.

    Their prerogative. Can't hardly fault 'em for it.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I don't agree with the "1% of 1%" guess at all. I'm old, slow, 10# (ok ok ok -- 15#) overweight, with creaky joints, and am not particularly interested in all day epics anymore. But I could still do it if I wanted to.

    That right there is the key.

    We as a society have been so completely pandered to that it's hard to find people that even realize you *can* do things like that -- 95% of it is wanting to, the other 5% is having a modicum of patience to get it done.

    I don't think I ever said that COPMOBA was whoring themselves out. It just sort of feels like a bait and switch: Emphasize two-way traffic to build enough momentum to get it off the ground, then when you need more $ pander to the least common denominator and cry "shuttle route" from the rooftops.

    Their prerogative. Can't hardly fault 'em for it.
    Well, post #18 but your right in that you didn't specifically mention COPMOBA. Anyhow, I also like long epic backcountry rides but prefer it to be in the backcountry. I guess I don't really see TWE as a backcountry ride anymore and maybe that's also the point your trying to make.

    But will Palisades every really become the destination that Moab is? Even with the Plunge built it's still a much smaller riding destination compared to Grand Junction, Fruita, or Moab. Just trying to understand your perspective while also acknowledging how fukking hard it is to get anything that is even remotely cool approved and built these days. Which is why I donated not once but twice now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    But will Palisades every really become the destination that Moab is? Even with the Plunge built it's still a much smaller riding destination compared to Grand Junction, Fruita, or Moab.

    I don't know. What I do know is that it's ~1 minute off of I-70, which is the corridor that people from the Front Range and most of the mountain towns travel to get to Moab. If you suddenly have a trail network that's ~2 hours closer to home than going all the way to Moab, that becomes pretty compelling.

    I don't think Palisade can even handle 1% of Moab's typical weekend traffic in terms of lodging or restaurants. Which is sort of alarming if you live in Palisade and value the small town feel you grew up with or moved there for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I don't know. What I do know is that it's ~1 minute off of I-70, which is the corridor that people from the Front Range and most of the mountain towns travel to get to Moab. If you suddenly have a trail network that's ~2 hours closer to home than going all the way to Moab, that becomes pretty compelling.

    I don't think Palisade can even handle 1% of Moab's typical weekend traffic in terms of lodging or restaurants. Which is sort of alarming if you live in Palisade and value the small town feel you grew up with or moved there for.
    Well, we're both old dogs in a changing world with far too many posts on mtbr. It will be interesting to revisit this thread in 5 years to see how things turned out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I don't think Palisade can even handle 1% of Moab's typical weekend traffic in terms of lodging or restaurants. Which is sort of alarming if you live in Palisade and value the small town feel you grew up with or moved there for.
    Like what happened to the Moab many of us grew up with. I hope some other town starts taking a big chunk of people away from Moab.

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    I've never really considered Palisade as its own destination. I see it as being part of a larger destination with Fuita and GJ. When friends and I go out that way, we always group Palisade, GJ, Fuita and Moab as a week long trip.

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    I predict the Plunge will become as popular as TWE, if not more popular, but you won't notice it in the context of the GJ area. The Grand Valley has over 100,000 people, Moab has 6000. TWE is just a small contributor to why Moab has become jacked. A much larger influence is social media and the weird concept that if you see a selfie taken by a friend at <insert scenic location here>, that *YOU* now must go take a selfie in the same place.

    Remember the scene in "Vacation" where the family visits the Grand Canyon? That is basically what the majority of Moab visitors are now doing. They go to Arches and take selfies, they go to Dead Horse and take selfies, they go to Canyonlands and take selfies, they eat at the brewery, sleep in a hotel, and the next day they drive to Bryce or Capitol Reef or Lake Powell or wherever and take more selfies. They don't hike, they don't bike, they don't raft. They are only there to be able to say they were there. If you are a trail user that is great, but if you live in Moab, it is a fricking nightmare. There are EIGHT more hotels that will open in the next year there. I read that there are now 2.7 lodging beds for every person living in Moab. That is crazy. And that is why the town is jacked. There would have to be 270,000 hotel beds in the Grand Valley to be as screwed up as Moab is, and that simply isn't going to happen.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    I predict the Plunge will become as popular as TWE, if not more popular, but you won't notice it in the context of the GJ area. The Grand Valley has over 100,000 people, Moab has 6000. TWE is just a small contributor to why Moab has become jacked. A much larger influence is social media and the weird concept that if you see a selfie taken by a friend at <insert scenic location here>, that *YOU* now must go take a selfie in the same place.

    Remember the scene in "Vacation" where the family visits the Grand Canyon? That is basically what the majority of Moab visitors are now doing. They go to Arches and take selfies, they go to Dead Horse and take selfies, they go to Canyonlands and take selfies, they eat at the brewery, sleep in a hotel, and the next day they drive to Bryce or Capitol Reef or Lake Powell or wherever and take more selfies. They don't hike, they don't bike, they don't raft. They are only there to be able to say they were there. If you are a trail user that is great, but if you live in Moab, it is a fricking nightmare. There are EIGHT more hotels that will open in the next year there. I read that there are now 2.7 lodging beds for every person living in Moab. That is crazy. And that is why the town is jacked. There would have to be 270,000 hotel beds in the Grand Valley to be as screwed up as Moab is, and that simply isn't going to happen.
    Don't forget the tour buses. Average visit to Grand Canyon National Park is 1.5 hours. They pile out of the buses, take their pics, and move onto the next NP.

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    Arches, Canyonlands and Zion have been ruined by those damned buses.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by brex17 View Post
    Arches, Canyonlands and Zion have been ruined by those damned buses.
    The funny thing is that you wont see a soul in 95% of the park if you get a half mile off a paved surface.

    My wifes cousin/my best friend lives in Springdale and rarely sees a soul when he and his wife go hiking in Zion.


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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    The funny thing is that you wont see a soul in 95% of the park if you get a half mile off a paved surface.

    My wifes cousin/my best friend lives in Springdale and rarely sees a soul when he and his wife go hiking in Zion.

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    That wouldn't be the case in Sedona. Not a national park but now a very popular destination. I'd argue that on most trails (the majority built on the low down by the biking community) there is a hiker problem. Unless you ride off season it does change the riding dynamic when your dropping the backside of Hangover or HiLine, making a committing technical move and there is a parade of hikers coming the other way. To get the trails adopted they have to be shared-use. We used to have all those trails to ourselves, especially during the recession years in the late 2000s.

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    Most of the hikes in Arches are overrun as well. Hard to get a spot in the parking lots, I shake my head now when going to Delicate Arch. Super crowded, and most people are trying to do the walk with toddlers and a single bottle of water.
    Angels Landing in Zion is a mess most of the time, the riverwalk and walking up the river towards the narrows is pathetic, etc.
    The NPS has really made a mess of things over the last decade or so. It used to be so enjoyable to take a day trip or weekend camp trip down to Arches/Moab. Oh well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brex17 View Post
    Most of the hikes in Arches are overrun as well. Hard to get a spot in the parking lots, I shake my head now when going to Delicate Arch. Super crowded, and most people are trying to do the walk with toddlers and a single bottle of water.
    Angels Landing in Zion is a mess most of the time, the riverwalk and walking up the river towards the narrows is pathetic, etc.
    The NPS has really made a mess of things over the last decade or so. It used to be so enjoyable to take a day trip or weekend camp trip down to Arches/Moab. Oh well.
    Arches proposed a Zion-like solution where you would have to ride a bus or shuttle van into the park. The problem is that there is nowhere to have a parking lot even a fraction of the size needed, because ....wait for it..... Moab has already allowed HOTELS on almost every large parcel available. They are actually waiting for the radioactive tailings pile to be cleaned up so that it can be turned into a giant parking lot. That is at least ten years out.

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    Makes me sad. I wish we would stop advertising the parks.

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    Looks like this trail will now be open to people on eBikes.

    Enjoy!


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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmar123 View Post
    Lame theres elitist d!kheads that gotta suck the fun outta everything.

    Maybe in a year -- when you've finished middle school -- you'll have a firmer grasp on what it means to be "elitist". Hint: It involves excluding people, which is the opposite of inclusion.

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    Dang I missed a bunch..... thankfully.

    I don't disagree with many points you've brought up Mike and I think I (and Scott) have attempted to respond honestly and not blow off your concerns. You know me a bit, and I think we get along just fine and do see eye to eye on a lot. I guess maybe we don't on this one.

    As for this:

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I don't think I ever said that COPMOBA was whoring themselves out. It just sort of feels like a bait and switch: Emphasize two-way traffic to build enough momentum to get it off the ground, then when you need more $ pander to the least common denominator and cry "shuttle route" from the rooftops.

    Their prerogative. Can't hardly fault 'em for it.
    I wasn't involved at any meaningful level when they were trying to get this off the ground (still not really other than helping share info), so I don't know if the two-way access was ever emphasized as you say to "get it off the ground". I don't remember that being a big selling point when I first started hearing of it. Not saying you are wrong, I simply don't know or personally remember it that way. So to me it doesn't feel like anything changed as the calls for donations started going out and the shuttle aspect was obviously emphasized.

    I do however believe most people donating are probably not donating their $$ "specifically" for an uphill route so calling it "bait and switch" may be a little strong. I think I've heard a grand total of about 5 people asking about the uphill access aspect. To me the ground swell of support doesn't seem to be from folks looking to do an epic climb up onto the Mesa, but to your point it hasn't been marketed that way, so there's that. If anything I think the two-way/uphill crowd would mostly include us locals that want to have a few more route options in Palisade and another route option to link into the Rim trail. But, the connection into the Rim was never guaranteed and there were times I heard that was off the table, only to have a connector option re-appear. I think they were careful with promising anything connecting into the Rim.

    In the end, we'll hopefully get a great trail and I don't think anyone (OK most people) want Palisade to become Moab. I personally avoid Moab except in winter, as I find myself liking riding in crowds less and less as I get older. I haven't ridden TWE since Sept 2015! Not that it isn't a great trail, but I'd rather go ride other stuff, especially other stuff I haven't ridden yet.

    If you are disapointed in the result when it opens, well.... "Sorry" I guess? If you donated and feel duped in some way, email me and I'm sure we can work something out. Beyond that, I'm just gonna ride my bike and enjoy the fruits of everyone else's labor.

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    Phase II has funding! Thanks to all who donated, or just helped spread the word. There will still be plenty of opportunity to put any additional funds to good use. Planned regular maintenance is one area of focus specifically for this trail.

    https://www.gjsentinel.com/news/west...77ce06c14.html

    Palisade bike trail gets how much money?

    The Palisade Plunge Trail now has the funding it needs to complete work on the full trail, which will run 34 miles and drop 6,000 feet from Mesa Top trail head to the Palisade Rim trail head.

    Great Outdoors Colorado (GOCO) announced it had approved more than $1.2 million in new grant funding to complete phase two of the trail construction. Mesa County, which was the applicant for the grant, originally asked for around $2 million, but Colorado Plateau Mountain Bike Trail Association (COPMOBA) President Scott Winans said the amount awarded would be sufficient to complete the trail.

    "This will get us through all of the trail construction and construction of facilities like parking lots and bathrooms," Winans said.


    Winans said the county is considering modifying some of the more expensive pieces of the project, which includes the paved bike trail from the Palisade Rim trail head into downtown Palisade.

    "Some of the most expensive work is road work on North River Road," Winans said. "So there is some consideration, some discussion on addressing that work."

    The grant is part of GOCO's Connect Initiative, which aims to fill trail gaps, build new trails, and improve access to recreation across the state. The money will allow the phase-one section of the trail, which is the lower half, to connect to Colorado Highway 65 at Mesa Top trail head.

    The trail will start at Mesa Top trail head near the Mesa/Delta County line. It will follow a route along the Mesa Rim similar to the path of Forest Road 100, which goes to Lands End Observatory. The trail will take its signature plunge at Shirttail Point south of Lands End. From there it descends down the Mesa to the Palisade Rim trail head.


    "Mesa County is very pleased to be awarded more than $1.2 million to help complete the Palisade Plunge, a world-class mountain bike trail in the making," Rose Pugliese, chairwoman of the Board of Mesa County Commissioners, said in a statement. "We are proud of our community for coming together with local, state, and federal agencies to support outdoor recreation and growing economic development on the east end of Mesa County."

    Winans said 4 miles of trail is already built with an additional 4 miles roughed in. He said he expects the phase-one section about 17 miles of trail will be completed in early spring. An October 2020 grand opening for the Plunge is a goal, Winans said, but it could be spring 2021 depending on how the construction progresses.

    In addition to the Plunge grant money, GOCO also awarded $56,250 to Mesa County to develop a parks and recreation master plan.

    "The City of Grand Junction is immensely grateful and proud to earn this GOCO planning grant," Parks and Recreation Director Ken Sherbenou said in a statement. "The strength and sustainability of our parks and recreation system is dependent on our ability to effectively plan for the future, a future where we intend to have a high quality of life. This grant enables the creation of the blueprint for that future."

    Attachment 1283701

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    Quote Originally Posted by brex17 View Post
    Most of the hikes in Arches are overrun as well. Hard to get a spot in the parking lots, I shake my head now when going to Delicate Arch. Super crowded, and most people are trying to do the walk with toddlers and a single bottle of water.
    Angels Landing in Zion is a mess most of the time, the riverwalk and walking up the river towards the narrows is pathetic, etc.
    The NPS has really made a mess of things over the last decade or so. It used to be so enjoyable to take a day trip or weekend camp trip down to Arches/Moab. Oh well.
    No joke. Been going to Moab for thirty years and Moab is a bucket list destination but what a disaster it has become. Im over it, I was there this weekend and those motorized 4 wheelers were wrecking the place. Asshat political statements everywhere, no respect for campers on Sand Flats etc... Shuttles streaming up the roads, they pass you on the way up, of course you always blow by shuttlers on the trail down because they're generally pretty weak and cold and wearing cologne for whatever reason and there aint nobody who stinks riding out front of me ever Some cool peeps out there for sure to keep the vibes right but damn I'm happy to see Colorado putting together better trails without having to cross the state line of Mordor.
    There is no finish line

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by starladear View Post
    No joke. Been going to Moab for thirty years and Moab is a bucket list destination but what a disaster it has become. Im over it, I was there this weekend and those motorized 4 wheelers were wrecking the place. Asshat political statements everywhere, no respect for campers on Sand Flats etc... Shuttles streaming up the roads, they pass you on the way up, of course you always blow by shuttlers on the trail down because they're generally pretty weak and cold and wearing cologne for whatever reason and there aint nobody who stinks riding out front of me ever Some cool peeps out there for sure to keep the vibes right but damn I'm happy to see Colorado putting together better trails without having to cross the state line of Mordor.
    anybody know what happens to the motel prices in the winter? i've read that the high season rates can be up to $300 a night!
    breezy shade

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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    anybody know what happens to the motel prices in the winter? i've read that the high season rates can be up to $300 a night!
    Last week was pretty much the peak for this season, and yes, last minute rooms were $300 and up. This weekend they are back down to $100 for the cheapest rooms.

    "Winter" used to start around now and run until March 1, but the tourist season gets longer and longer, and now the hotels are even full over Thanksgiving and Christmas. Other than those two holidays, you can find a room for $60-70 most days between the first week of November and February 1. The weather becomes a factor, it can start getting cold and windy right around now, and in mid-winter Moab can get down to 0F overnight occasionally. You just have to watch the weather and the trails reports. Snow can stick around for several weeks from Thanksgiving to February. I've done some great riding in December and January, but I've also been shut out for six weeks due to snow on the trails. The town of Moab itself doesn't see much snow (although they got a foot in a storm last year). The trails are higher in elevation and the north facing areas can hold snow a long time.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Last week was pretty much the peak for this season, and yes, last minute rooms were $300 and up. This weekend they are back down to $100 for the cheapest rooms.

    "Winter" used to start around now and run until March 1, but the tourist season gets longer and longer, and now the hotels are even full over Thanksgiving and Christmas. Other than those two holidays, you can find a room for $60-70 most days between the first week of November and February 1. The weather becomes a factor, it can start getting cold and windy right around now, and in mid-winter Moab can get down to 0F overnight occasionally. You just have to watch the weather and the trails reports. Snow can stick around for several weeks from Thanksgiving to February. I've done some great riding in December and January, but I've also been shut out for six weeks due to snow on the trails. The town of Moab itself doesn't see much snow (although they got a foot in a storm last year). The trails are higher in elevation and the north facing areas can hold snow a long time.
    thanks for the response. i got on a website for multiple hotel/motel comparisons to check winter months & yah, prices are at least half, maybe a 1/3 for some 2 star joints. good time to go i think. temps can be in the 50's, 90 some % of trails are rideable , no crowds anywhere(?), days getting a little longer in February. like you said, if you can follow the weather & be flexable to go, winter could be excellent
    breezy shade

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