Paint & flagging on Amasa/Jacksons - WTF?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Paint & flagging on Amasa/Jacksons - WTF?

    Was in Moab over the past weekend, and we hit Amasa/Rockstacker/Jacksons Tuesday AM before heading home. Part way up Amasa, and continuing to the Jacksons turnoff, there were spots of green survey paint every 10 years or so, right up the middle of the trail. As we rejoined Jacksons after coming off Rockstacker, we say that the dots continued all the way down to the creek crossing. What's worse, there was redundant orange flagging hung along the trail, too. We guessed there might have been a race recently that failed to use a sweeper to remove the markings. Would a call to the local BLM office be fruitless? Thx,
    - Joe

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    Quote Originally Posted by NuMexJoe
    Was in Moab over the past weekend, and we hit Amasa/Rockstacker/Jacksons Tuesday AM before heading home. Part way up Amasa, and continuing to the Jacksons turnoff, there were spots of green survey paint every 10 years or so, right up the middle of the trail. As we rejoined Jacksons after coming off Rockstacker, we say that the dots continued all the way down to the creek crossing. What's worse, there was redundant orange flagging hung along the trail, too. We guessed there might have been a race recently that failed to use a sweeper to remove the markings. Would a call to the local BLM office be fruitless? Thx,
    - Joe
    Mex:

    Not sure what your concern is about the paint? This has always been an interesting topic for me and I was wondering what those concerns are, please enumerate. Why didn't you take down the flagging?

    How was the ride? Did you take any pictures for us?
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    The ride was nice, thank you, except for the flourescent green paint and the orange flagging, both of which detract from the natural beauty of the place. That's my concern. I can't believe that was intended to be permanent marking, as it's a whole nuther level beyond the discreet blue paint that now marks the route up along the Gold Bar rim. But if such defacing is of no concern to the locals, then it's none of my business. Why didn't I remove the flagging? Because that's the responsibilty of those that put it there. I'll stop and pick up the occasional Gu wrapper that might've fallen out of someone's pocket, but I won't clean up 100's of feet of flagging that someone else was to lazy to remove after it had served it's purpose. And no, I did not take any pictures. I'm a lousy photographer and I can enjoy a ride w/o taking pics to share on MTBR. It looks the same as every other time someone has posted a pic of that section of trail, except for the unsightly green paint and flagging.

    So are you playing Devil's Advocate, or are you a local who's seen the trail recently and is OK with how it's been left?
    - Joe

  4. #4
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    I haven't been out that way to look at things, but the green paint (permanent?) and flagging was probably there for the 50 mile run held in that area today. Too bad it took away from your ride.

    FW

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    Quote Originally Posted by NuMexJoe
    The ride was nice, thank you, except for the flourescent green paint and the orange flagging, both of which detract from the natural beauty of the place. That's my concern. I can't believe that was intended to be permanent marking, as it's a whole nuther level beyond the discreet blue paint that now marks the route up along the Gold Bar rim. But if such defacing is of no concern to the locals, then it's none of my business. Why didn't I remove the flagging? Because that's the responsibilty of those that put it there. I'll stop and pick up the occasional Gu wrapper that might've fallen out of someone's pocket, but I won't clean up 100's of feet of flagging that someone else was to lazy to remove after it had served it's purpose. And no, I did not take any pictures. I'm a lousy photographer and I can enjoy a ride w/o taking pics to share on MTBR. It looks the same as every other time someone has posted a pic of that section of trail, except for the unsightly green paint and flagging.

    So are you playing Devil's Advocate, or are you a local who's seen the trail recently and is OK with how it's been left?
    - Joe
    Joe:

    I do play the Devil sometimes, and I do like to get people's view on paint. The main reason for paint (Slickrock Trail) is to keep people from getting off the trail and making a mess of the rest of the adjacent terrain.

    It wears off pretty quick (Slickrock Trail Repainting Periodically) due to the extreme weather conditions. I have heard people complain about getting off track on the Blue Dot.

    In Sedona they use rock jails for markers, but they cost about $500 apiece so it makes for a pretty expensive project.

    It will be interesting if someone collects the flags.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G-JonSaxRI

    Thanks for the input.

    Doc

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    The paint and markings should really only be located in areas of the trails that one could easily get off trail. I haven't been on Amasa Back lately, but I will look into it for certain. As far as the Blue Dot trail, I am an advocate of having that trail marked better. This is fast becoming a very popular trail and there are a number of sensative vegitation areas up there that are getting rode on by un-sensative people. I feel that it should be marked better, to help keep people on the trails. However, if it is a easy trail to follow like Amasa, then no markings are necessary.
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    yeah, there wasn't anything on bartlett but i noticed it on amasaback. i also figured it was just so it was easier to see the right way. To me it didn't make a difference because i don't notice it on the way down, but it was kinda dumb seeing it on the way up

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by crager34
    The paint and markings should really only be located in areas of the trails that one could easily get off trail. I haven't been on Amasa Back lately, but I will look into it for certain. As far as the Blue Dot trail, I am an advocate of having that trail marked better. This is fast becoming a very popular trail and there are a number of sensative vegitation areas up there that are getting rode on by un-sensative people. I feel that it should be marked better, to help keep people on the trails. However, if it is a easy trail to follow like Amasa, then no markings are necessary.
    Hey 34:

    That is the best input that I have heard in a long time, any chance of you taking the initative to go out and do that?

    Thanks in advance if you do, that would be a nice surprise .

    Doc
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  9. #9
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    Orange Flagging is up on UPS at the moment as well and it matches the routing tape on the new option to be cut in by the Forest Service.. So perhaps this some sort of official action.

  10. #10
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    The tape and flagging in this case was f'in ridiculous! I don't care about paint drips to mark a trail - this wasn't that! There was green paint every 2 ft, no joke, and orange tape to boot! I was there on Friday. It was flagged and painted for the running race saturday. I'm not sure how you would get lost on Jacksons trail in the first place?!

    Also, IMO the continuous paint line on Rockstacker is a little overkill too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado
    The tape and flagging in this case was f'in ridiculous! I don't care about paint drips to mark a trail - this wasn't that! There was green paint every 2 ft, no joke, and orange tape to boot! I was there on Friday. It was flagged and painted for the running race saturday. I'm not sure how you would get lost on Jacksons trail in the first place?!

    Also, IMO the continuous paint line on Rockstacker is a little overkill too.
    From the BLM: "Thanks for the info. The green paint is chalk-based, and will wash away with rain. Given our lack of rain,however, we are requiring the 50 mile race promoter to scrub off the paint, and remove the flagging as well. Hopefully, you will see all of the stuff gone by next week."

    Noah... Relax. Other things happen around here, besides making sure the trails are to your liking.
    It's not an adventure until someone BLEEDS!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado
    ...Also, IMO the continuous paint line on Rockstacker is a little overkill too.
    Well since Noah brought it up, and Doc seems genuinely interested in input, I'll give my $0.02 on the the Rockstacker marking, too. The color is appropriately subdued, but intermittent dashes or something might be more subtle than the continuous line, yet every bit as effective. My main gripe is that the painted line serves to route you away from almost all the drops on Rockstacker. That's likely a non-issue for locals who ride it enough to know where all the hits are, but folks like me get sucked into following the painted line and then look back & realized we were cheated of some fun. Perhaps that was intentional, making it safer now that it has semi-official trail status?

    Anyway, that said and race promoters aside, it's still Moab and still a great place to escape to for the weekend. I'm grateful to all you locals that do trail work and who are generally quite hospitable to your guests. Thanks!
    - Joe

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado
    Also, IMO the continuous paint line on Rockstacker is a little overkill too.
    Noah:

    I am curious, are you saying that the continuous paint line on Rockstacker is with permanent paint or the washable chalk paint that has been mentioned?

    Doc

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    Quote Originally Posted by NuMexJoe
    Well since Noah brought it up, and Doc seems genuinely interested in input, - Joe
    Hey Joe:

    I am still curious about the marking of Rockstacker and Jackson. I have been looking into the possible marking paint that could have been used, and it looks like Krylon has a chalk based paint ( http://www.utilitysafeguard.com/Kryl...ng-Chalk-WBC20 ) that may have been used.

    If in fact that was the product used, it looks like it is designed to be good for 14 days and that it can be washed off with water or removed with a wire brush.

    If this is the case why is it necessary for someone to go out and waste their time washing off or wire brushing miles of markings when after a rainy period they will be removed naturally?

    Seems like a waste of time to me. Maybe the group responsible could donate funds or time to the local mountain bike club to help with volunteer efforts to do trail maintenance on existing trails rather than waste time on something that will occur naturally.

    How many man hours do you think it will take to bring the trails back to the look that YOU will be happy with?
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    I heard about the paint on Rockstacker a week ago. Sad, but I expected it to happen eventually. With the exception of the initial roll in, and the last section of old cattle trail prior to intersecting Jackon's, the original Rockstacker route crossed almost no soil with no crypto damage. The route juked up and down much more than the current route. Kayenta Sandstone lends itself to this form of "leave no trace" riding. To see Rockstacker slowly transformed from such a state, into a "trail", and now into a continuous redline bypass that omits the "heart and soul" features of the Kayenta itself, stands as testament to the dumbdown default continuum.

    A word about paint (or any trail markings for that matter). A genuine router following a genuine route needs paint and cairns as much as a genuine speaker giving a genuinely written speech needs notes and a teleprompter. That is, not at all.

    Of course, this is a luxury of locality, and charges of exclusivity and secrecy are justified. I can only answer in analogy. Just as love can beget monogamy, and monogamy constitutes exclusivity, so too can love of deep desert riding beget the same.

    hfly

    Joe, sorry I missed you all. I noticed a call on my (rarely used) cell phone from Clay about a week too late, and Veteran's Day weekend was my work weekend anyway.

    John, you really should drop by my house some time to talk.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    Noah:

    I am curious, are you saying that the continuous paint line on Rockstacker is with permanent paint or the washable chalk paint that has been mentioned?

    Doc
    Looked like reg. old paint. Seems kind of funny to mark a trail called Rockstacker with paint, it's not called Linepainter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hfly
    I heard about the paint on Rockstacker a week ago. Sad, but I expected it to happen eventually. With the exception of the initial roll in, and the last section of old cattle trail prior to intersecting Jackon's, the original Rockstacker route crossed almost no soil with no crypto damage. The route juked up and down much more than the current route. Kayenta Sandstone lends itself to this form of "leave no trace" riding. To see Rockstacker slowly transformed from such a state, into a "trail", and now into a continuous redline bypass that omits the "heart and soul" features of the Kayenta itself, stands as testament to the dumbdown default continuum.

    A word about paint (or any trail markings for that matter). A genuine router following a genuine route needs paint and cairns as much as a genuine speaker giving a genuinely written speech needs notes and a teleprompter. That is, not at all.

    Of course, this is a luxury of locality, and charges of exclusivity and secrecy are justified. I can only answer in analogy. Just as love can beget monogamy, and monogamy constitutes exclusivity, so too can love of deep desert riding beget the same.

    hfly


    John, you really should drop by my house some time to talk.
    Hfly:

    Always good to hear from you even though I don't understand half of what you say. I asked a friend who is much smarter than me what you meant. He said, "you don't share special trails with the rest of us who share our local special trails with the masses." Is that the gist of what you said?

    Good to hear that you enjoyed Resolution and Manzanita to bad you missed the special stuff, but being a non local means your not entitled according to your thinking, right?

    A guy named Scott was visiting from Eugene Oregon today and we took him out on some of the local special trails that he would have never found w/o local knowledge. He said it was one of the best rides he has had in this area. I know we screwed up showing him, right?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by hfly
    I heard about the paint on Rockstacker a week ago. Sad, but I expected it to happen eventually. With the exception of the initial roll in, and the last section of old cattle trail prior to intersecting Jackon's, the original Rockstacker route crossed almost no soil with no crypto damage. The route juked up and down much more than the current route. Kayenta Sandstone lends itself to this form of "leave no trace" riding. To see Rockstacker slowly transformed from such a state, into a "trail", and now into a continuous redline bypass that omits the "heart and soul" features of the Kayenta itself, stands as testament to the dumbdown default continuum.

    A word about paint (or any trail markings for that matter). A genuine router following a genuine route needs paint and cairns as much as a genuine speaker giving a genuinely written speech needs notes and a teleprompter. That is, not at all.

    Of course, this is a luxury of locality, and charges of exclusivity and secrecy are justified. I can only answer in analogy. Just as love can beget monogamy, and monogamy constitutes exclusivity, so too can love of deep desert riding beget the same.

    hfly

    Joe, sorry I missed you all. I noticed a call on my (rarely used) cell phone from Clay about a week too late, and Veteran's Day weekend was my work weekend anyway.

    John, you really should drop by my house some time to talk.
    I've yet to see the new incarnation of Rockstacker but I sincerely thank you for making that route what it is/was. I had the luck of riding it with some folks a few years back that had been shown the route by yourself (unfortunately you couldn't make it the time I rode it with them) and I believe we rode most of the features that are now bypassed. Went back again this year and hit some new things and missed some others, and to me, that was one of the best aspects of that ride. I think I could ride it a dozen times and take completely different routes each time that all eventually get you to the singletrack with a little route finding along the way. Sad to hear about the paint, it's too bad folks can't be expected to find their own way around when they venture onto a route like that.

    Definitely understand your feelings about exclusivity as well, I talked to you via PM years ago in regards to some questions I had about Hazard and hearing about your experiences with that, definitely can't blame you or anyone for feeling the need to keep things on the down low when it comes to secret stashes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado
    Seems kind of funny to mark a trail called Rockstacker with paint, it's not called Linepainter.
    LOL. Good analogy! And I agree.

    And I agree with hfly....... whatever he said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by catch22
    I've yet to see the new incarnation of Rockstacker but I sincerely thank you for making that route what it is/was. I had the luck of riding it with some folks a few years back that had been shown the route by yourself (unfortunately you couldn't make it the time I rode it with them) and I believe we rode most of the features that are now bypassed. Went back again this year and hit some new things and missed some others, and to me, that was one of the best aspects of that ride. I think I could ride it a dozen times and take completely different routes each time that all eventually get you to the singletrack with a little route finding along the way. Sad to hear about the paint, it's too bad folks can't be expected to find their own way around when they venture onto a route like that.

    Definitely understand your feelings about exclusivity as well, I talked to you via PM years ago in regards to some questions I had about Hazard and hearing about your experiences with that, definitely can't blame you or anyone for feeling the need to keep things on the down low when it comes to secret stashes.
    Catch:

    I maybe wrong here but I don't think hfly had anything to do with the building of Rockstacker or Hazard. I think a guy who's name starts with the first letter of the alphabet built Rockstacker.

    I am curious if you will still be riding the old Rockstacker lines or will the paint keep you on the new line.

    Doc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    I maybe wrong here but I don't think hfly had anything to do with the building of Rockstacker .....Doc.
    You're right......you may be wrong.
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  22. #22
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    Doc, I agree that getting folks out there to wash off the paint is a poor use of resources, even if it is the promoter that is forced to do it. WRT your rhetorical question, as I indicated 3 days ago, if you locals are happy with it, then I'm happy with it. By the time I get back up there, it will surely have rained a couple times and the paint, if truly chalk-based, will mostly be gone.

    Tim, Also sorry to have missed you. We had your work number but didn't want to bug you. Perhaps next time. I hope you're well,
    - Joe

    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    How many man hours do you think it will take to bring the trails back to the look that YOU will be happy with?

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    Catch:

    I maybe wrong here but I don't think hfly had anything to do with the building of Rockstacker or Hazard. I think a guy who's name starts with the first letter of the alphabet built Rockstacker.

    I am curious if you will still be riding the old Rockstacker lines or will the paint keep you on the new line.

    Doc.
    It's very possible that I've heard this wrong, it was some time ago so who knows. You don't get to thank the people who create these trails enough so if I accidentally give credit where it isn't due, oh well, I tried. Regardless, a big thanks to whoever scouted that route. I have no clue on who actually created Hazard, just had a discussion with hfly about the various legal issues it went through after word got out about it.

    I think I actually rode Blue Dot with you a while back because I'm pretty sure I was there the day you took the pic of Kevin on the other thread. Had the pleasure of meeting the guy who got that route together that day(was it you?, I can't say I'm very good at matching up faces with internet personas) and was able to share my gratitude in person which is always nice.

    And yeah, I get the strong feeling my tires will stray from that line next time I'm there, I'm guessing they won't have patrollers out there handing out tickets anytime soon.
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  24. #24
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    So tell me more about this "Moab"...

    Krob, C22 and other posters I have not yet had the pleasure of meeting: How about a Winter MeetUp to evaluate these routing changes and determine impact? I for one would like to ride... er, I mean learn more and I am sure that hfly could be talked into joining us to provide any "historical context" that we might be unfamiliar with. Tires on the ground are the only way we can guarantee an accurate assessment of the situation. I owe a few people a visit anyway now that things have slowed down for the winter in Moberry.

    I also second NC's comment that the new route could be dubbed Linepainter.

    JMH
    Last edited by JMH; 11-19-2008 at 05:54 PM.

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    I'm always down to ride. I'm over in Moab 3-4 times a month - even more in the winter months! Generally off Thu-Sat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by catch22
    You don't get to thank the people who create these trails enough so if I accidentally give credit where it isn't due, oh well, I tried.
    You're welcome.

    I had nothing to with Hazard (old or new).

    hfly

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    The continuous painted line is ugly and detracts the ride!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    So tell me more about this "Moab"...

    Krob, C22 and other posters I have not yet had the pleasure of meeting: How about a Winter MeetUp to evaluate these routing changes and determine impact? I for one would like to ride... er, I mean learn more and I am sure that hfly could be talked into joining us to provide any "historical context" that we might be unfamiliar with. Tires on the ground are the only way we can guarantee an accurate assessment of the situation. I owe a few people a visit anyway now that things have slowed down for the winter in Moberry.

    I also second NC's comment that the new route could be dubbed Linepainter.

    JMH
    Definitely let me know if you have plans to get down there as I would love to go. We're expecting a youngin at the end of Jan though so honestly chances of me getting out of town are kinda slim. Regardless, someone needs to take one for the team and go inspect things. WAFTA field trip?
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  29. #29
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    0.5" rain yesterday/today -- green dots still there. maybe scrubbing is needed.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    Catch:

    I maybe wrong here but I don't think hfly had anything to do with the building of Rockstacker
    You don't know what the hell you are typing about.

    Brian (Catch22) does know the real deal about Rockstacker.

    It's sad to hear that it's been dumbed down/re-routed so much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avon Barksdale
    You don't know what the hell you are typing about.

    Brian (Catch22) does know the real deal about Rockstacker.

    It's sad to hear that it's been dumbed down/re-routed so much.
    Avon:

    So would you share with us what Catch 22 knows, so we can get the facts straight.

    Doc

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    Avon:

    So would you share with us what Catch 22 knows, so we can get the facts straight.

    Doc
    That's easy.

    When you typed this:

    "I maybe wrong here but I don't think hfly had anything to do with the building of Rockstacker" You were absolutely wrong. And continue to be.

    Get it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avon Barksdale
    That's easy.

    When you typed this:

    "I maybe wrong here but I don't think hfly had anything to do with the building of Rockstacker" You were absolutely wrong. And continue to be.

    Get it?
    Avon:

    I finally get it. Hfly (T) did build Rockstacker and I appreciate his efforts in doing so. It took awhile to figure out his routing since it wasn't much of a build, but some really cool routing.

    My introduction to the trial came from Andy and he gave me the general routing to the ride (when in doubt keep climbing to the right). I was surprised it was hfly (i) who built the trail since there was some moving of rocks and I figured he was more environmentally sensitive than that.

    Oh well, I am sure hfly (w) has a bunch more of those kind of trails that would sure be fun to ride, but since he is an elitist some of us may never get to ride them unless guys like Andy share the secrets of Moab.

    Is it true that the BLM did the painting out there. Sure glad I know the original routing and won't be distracted.

    I am curious if you were to be given the OK by the FS and BLM, where would you like to have a brand new trail in Moab? Do you ever dream about where a really cool new trail could be located there? Would you keep it top secret so the tourists coming to Moab wouldn't be able to enjoy it? Would you even share it with your ridng buddies?

    Doc

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    Avon:

    I finally get it. Hfly (T) did build Rockstacker and I appreciate his efforts in doing so. It took awhile to figure out his routing since it wasn't much of a build, but some really cool routing.

    My introduction to the trial came from Andy and he gave me the general routing to the ride (when in doubt keep climbing to the right). I was surprised it was hfly (i) who built the trail since there was some moving of rocks and I figured he was more environmentally sensitive than that.

    Oh well, I am sure hfly (w) has a bunch more of those kind of trails that would sure be fun to ride, but since he is an elitist some of us may never get to ride them unless guys like Andy share the secrets of Moab.

    Is it true that the BLM did the painting out there. Sure glad I know the original routing and won't be distracted.

    I am curious if you were to be given the OK by the FS and BLM, where would you like to have a brand new trail in Moab? Do you ever dream about where a really cool new trail could be located there? Would you keep it top secret so the tourists coming to Moab wouldn't be able to enjoy it? Would you even share it with your ridng buddies?

    Doc
    Well, you sure have your passive-aggressive psychosis thing wired, what with your accusations above. Contrary to you claim, I don't think you'll ever "get it."

    I'm one of those Moab tourists, yet I've ridden a number of the routes that you continue to pout about.

    Maybe the key to being able to ride some routes in Moab is that you have to pass the "tool" test.

    Keep studying because all indications are that you have along, long way to go before you come close to passing.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avon Barksdale
    Well, you sure have your passive-aggressive psychosis thing wired, what with your accusations above. Contrary to you claim, I don't think you'll ever "get it."

    I'm one of those Moab tourists, yet I've ridden a number of the routes that you continue to pout about.

    Maybe the key to being able to ride some routes in Moab is that you have to pass the "tool" test.

    Keep studying because all indications are that you have along, long way to go before you come close to passing.
    Avon:

    You guys never answer my simple questions, what's with that? I also get to ride those trails so I don't get what you are talking about. I have put more smiles on people faces than you could ever DREAM of.

    When someone like Andy shares a special trail with me like Rockstacker, I enjoy sharing it with the masses so they also get to share the experience. By me sharing Rockstacker with my buddies and others who are looking for something different those riders get to feel better about the money they are spending to drive to Moab.

    It is all about the overall experience. Without that diversity of trails those people are going to spend their hard earned dollars elsewhere.

    Making a personal attack on me is entertaining and I thank you for that, what is it that I don't get?.

  36. #36
    Avon Barksdale
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    Avon:

    You guys never answer my simple questions, what's with that?
    Maybe it's because you have yet to pass the "tool" test...


    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    I also get to ride those trails so I don't get what you are talking about.
    You're not making any sense. What happened to "Oh well, I am sure hfly (w) has a bunch more of those kind of trails that would sure be fun to ride, but since he is an elitist some of us may never get to ride them unless guys like Andy share the secrets of Moab."????

    If hfly is an elitist as you erroneously claim how are you able to ride those trails?

    Your passive-aggressive shtick is making you look really sad.

    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    I have put more smiles on people faces than you could ever DREAM of.
    Idle boasting with no basis in reality. It just makes you look even more silly.

    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    When someone like Andy shares a special trail with me like Rockstacker, I enjoy sharing it with the masses so they also get to share the experience. By me sharing Rockstacker with my buddies and others who are looking for something different those riders get to feel better about the money they are spending to drive to Moab.
    Rockstacker stopped being "special" years ago. The "secret" has been out for a long time.

    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    It is all about the overall experience. Without that diversity of trails those people are going to spend their hard earned dollars elsewhere.
    That's really stupid. Sorry, there's no way to sugar coat how naive/paranoid/idiotic your claim is.

    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    Making a personal attack on me is entertaining and I thank you for that, what is it that I don't get?.
    You invite personal attacks when you make unwarranted and uninformed attacks on the likes of hfly.

    What you don't get is that you are decades away from even being close to passing the "tool" test.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avon Barksdale
    What you don't get is that you are decades away from even being close to passing the "tool" test.
    Avon:

    When I was in high school I took auto shop and got an A in the class.

    In my lifetime I have never hired a mechanic to do any auto repair. I have never purchased a new car, so I have had to use my tools quite a bit. To say I am no way close to passing the "tool" test might be incorrect.

    Also in college I got an A in my Meats 230 slaughtering class, so I know how to get a good value when shopping for beef, lamb or pork. If you pay more than $2.99 a pound you are paying too much.

    Not sure what "tool" test you are talking about. Maybe someone who is monitoring this thread can make your statement a little clearer for me. I am getting pretty simple minded in my old age.

    I hope you have been getting some good riding, as you know the conditions have been perfect. Come to Sedona and we will share the good stuff with you.

    Doc
    Attached Images Attached Images

  38. #38
    Avon Barksdale
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    Not sure what "tool" test you are talking about.
    Yes, your naivete is quite stunning.

    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    Maybe someone who is monitoring this thread can make your statement a little clearer for me. I am getting pretty simple minded in my old age.
    Maybe someone will buy you a clue.

    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    Come to Sedona and we will share the good stuff with you.
    Been there, done that. Sorry, I don't need you to "share" anything with me, let alone Sedona routes.

  39. #39
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    Don’t believe that business about that paint. There was a race on the Ribbon trial, in the Grand Junction area, 2 years ago and they marked it with that chalk-based, washable paint. Then when the race was over, they scrubbed the marks, which made an even bigger mess. Two years later, I can still see some of the marks left by that ‘washable’ paint. The BLM needs to wake up to this fact, that paint does not wash away, it soaks into the porous rock and the telltale signs will stay for many years. I am sorry to hear that they have desecrated another trail in the name of racing.

  40. #40

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    I live in the mountains. The view from my front door is of a beautiful hillside. To see this I look through 17 electric,phone or tv lines. I never see the lines,I choose to see the hillside. The BLM has been made aware of the problem. It's time to lift your eyes and see the beauty. I'm sure there are signs left from biking on the trail too. Should they be banned from the area?
    Last edited by pcdarks; 12-09-2008 at 04:22 PM.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avon Barksdale
    Yes, your naivete is quite stunning.



    Maybe someone will buy you a clue.



    Been there, done that. Sorry, I don't need you to "share" anything with me, let alone Sedona routes.
    Avon:

    I keep asking around at the rest home as to what "tool" test means, and one of the residents said "GOOGLE IT STUPID"!

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...s/1274051.html

    Thanks for your patience.

    The riding in Sedona was pertty good today, trails were tacky and temps around 50 degrees.

    Doc

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by SweatyYeti
    Don’t believe that business about that paint. There was a race on the Ribbon trial, in the Grand Junction area, 2 years ago and they marked it with that chalk-based, washable paint. Then when the race was over, they scrubbed the marks, which made an even bigger mess. Two years later, I can still see some of the marks left by that ‘washable’ paint. The BLM needs to wake up to this fact, that paint does not wash away, it soaks into the porous rock and the telltale signs will stay for many years. I am sorry to hear that they have desecrated another trail in the name of racing.
    Sweaty:

    Seems to be some different opinions on whether there is any paint left.
    Last edited by traildoc; 01-05-2009 at 02:17 AM.

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