A non Mormon living in the Mormon world?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    Daniel the Dog
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    A non Mormon living in the Mormon world?

    I'm certainly have nothing against Mormonism. I certainly don't want to start a bashing Mormon thread. Seems to be very nice people.

    How is it living in a Mormon world? Your thought?

    Jaybo

  2. #2
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    I don't really notice it. Then again, the University of Utah is probably the least Mormon part of the state. I do notice how everyone here is married, seemingly regardless of whether they are LDS or not. You'd think there was some sort of law that people over 20 have to be married. Not saying its bad, its just what I notice the most(pretty much the only thing actually).

    As far as biking, there is absolutely no difference whatsoever.

  3. #3
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    It's what you make it...
    They let a few in every now and again to keeps things interesting..

    I should know.
    Brian
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  4. #4
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    Hey Jaybo - are you considering a move to utah? I moved to p-town from slc 2 years ago and have chatted with you a few times on the oregon board.

    If you're into the outdoors, Utah rocks, regardless of religion. Better skiing, easier access to mtn biking, and too many weekend destinations to list! The only thing I don't miss about it is the beer.
    "Serves you right to suffer." -The Wife (after being 2 hours late)

  5. #5
    JMH
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    More than I can ever recap has been written, just check for older threads that ask about living in Utah. They eventually touch on being non-LDS...

    I love it here and so does the wife, we are not mormon.

    JMH

  6. #6
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    i have no problem with religion of any sort but when a sect of a religion starts to control the gov. in that state then it becomes problematic. this isnt jsut Utah its the whole bible belt. "SIN TAX" !! get over it.
    Prison is hard, everything else is easy

  7. #7
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    Wondering as well

    I am relocating sometime this summer from mpls and am curious how it will be. I am not so worried about myself but my kids being left out on activities. looks like a sweet place to live though, just have to bring alot of beer and jagermeister from home!!!

    bog

  8. #8
    I Just Ride....
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogmonster
    I am relocating sometime this summer from mpls and am curious how it will be. I am not so worried about myself but my kids being left out on activities. looks like a sweet place to live though, just have to bring alot of beer and jagermeister from home!!!

    bog
    Your kids won't be "left out", the poplulace is far more divierse than it was when I was growing up, back in the 70's.
    Brian
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  9. #9
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    So it's a Mormon World, is it?

    I mean...I knew that was the plan, I just didn't know we were so far down the path!!
    Sworn to avenge, condemned to hell

  10. #10
    JMH
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogmonster
    have to bring alot of beer and jagermeister from home!!!
    Or you could swing by the liquor store once you are here... probably easier.

    JMH
    Last edited by JMH; 03-07-2007 at 03:54 PM.

  11. #11
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    Since we're on the topic I thought I'd ask a quick question of those who grew up in the SLC area...How does the Utah public school system, primarily around or in the SLC area compare to that of the whacked out public school experiment that we have brewing here in California?

    Even though some puplic schools may be better then others maybe depending on what social category the surrounding neighborhood falls into. During my whole High School experience there wasn't enough cash on the table to send me to a private school. In short the school I attended was pretty ghetto largely due to the importing of students that most often didn't even wanna be there. While it may have been helpful in toughening me up a bit and giving me thicker skin to go through life with, it certainly wouldn't be a childhood experience that I'd want my kids to go through.


    So for those of you that wouldn't mind chiming in, how is it up there?


    D

  12. #12
    JMH
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    I seem to recall that the public schools here usually score in the middle to low end vs the rest of the country. Anyone have any numbers?

    EDIT: Hmmm... here is one that says #28:

    http://www.psk12.com/rating/USthreeR...ountyID_0.html

    And we are apparently dead in the middle of the "smartest states" list:

    http://www.morganquitno.com/edrank03.htm

    I was one year behind the other students when I moved from Utah to Las Vegas in the 5th grade. Thankfully I am a genius, so it didn't take more than two or three months to catch up.

    JMH

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty D
    How does the Utah public school system, primarily around or in the SLC area compare to that of the whacked out public school experiment that we have brewing here in California?
    Last edited by JMH; 03-07-2007 at 03:55 PM.

  13. #13
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    SLC is less than 50% mormon. Park City probably much, much less. I'm not mormon, and don't notice the religious aspect until you want to try to buy wine at the Supermarket. I've made mormon friends, and they aren't much different from other people, except that you can't get them to go out on Sundays.

  14. #14
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    Fewer riders on the trails on Sundays. Plus if you have more than one Mormon along with you they won't drink all your beer.

  15. #15
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    Schools, etc. Outside SLC

    I can't speak to SLC, but I have some insight into other areas, for anyone else looking at Utah.

    Mormons are generally really nice people. However, it is part and parcel of their religion to patronize Mormon businesses, and generally associate within their faith. In a predominately non-Mormon town like SLC or Moab, non-Mormons fit in socially, but believe me, the political and school systems are still controlled by Mormons. There is an interesting example of this in Moab.

    Utah passed a charter school law a few years ago. This was a thinly veiled way of allowing Mormon influence to continue in the public schools in the SLC area. With the influx of non-Mormons into SLC, the schools were becoming too 'Gentile' for Mormon tastes. The Mormon solution was to allow charter schools that would continue the Mormon tradition of influencing and controlling the public school experience for their children.

    In Moab, a group of parents got tired of the Mormon influence in the school system, so they decided to start a charter school that did NOT have Mormon influence. In essence, using the charter school provisions in the opposite way they were intended.

    The crap those people went through! They were fought every inch of the way by the local and state school authorities, and then after the school was finally approved, had to endure a scandal over the school's director.

    Also in Moab, there has been a seemingly endless series of incomprehensible decisions by the county planning commission allowing ridiculously dense development in inappropriate areas, while denying seeming less impactful developments. If you follow the money trail, you can see what lies at the root of these decisions. I heard another story from Cedar City in the same vein.

    Mormon development, Mormon commission, approval is guaranteed. Want to build a house? Hire a Mormon architect and a Mormon contractor and life will be a lot easier. Try to go outside that, and maybe your landscape plan is inadequate. Forever.

    Kind of like a little Mafia with a religious front......

    I apologize if I've offended anyone, but these observations are based on almost 20 years of experience. People who have lived there know the reality.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit
    I can't speak to SLC, but I have some insight into other areas, for anyone else looking at Utah. .................
    I apologize if I've offended anyone, but these observations are based on almost 20 years of experience. People who have lived there know the reality.
    I'll bet you are one of those guys that would drink all my beer. But I know where you are coming from. If you are a non Mormon in Utah you will always be aware that you are a minority here.

  17. #17
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    That is what my general impression was of the state as well through my brief stays over the years. I find them to be really nice people as well, but if not part of the "club" it limits your choices and possibilities that directly will affect your livelihood and family.

  18. #18
    I railed it like Kong
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit
    Utah passed a charter school law a few years ago. This was a thinly veiled way of allowing Mormon influence to continue in the public schools in the SLC area. With the influx of non-Mormons into SLC, the schools were becoming too 'Gentile' for Mormon tastes. The Mormon solution was to allow charter schools that would continue the Mormon tradition of influencing and controlling the public school experience for their children.
    What was the charter school law passed? How did it change things?
    I'm UNIQUE... just like everybody else.

  19. #19
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    Wow..

    I hadn't heard that the Utah legislature actually passed a law allowing school vouchers to be used for private schools. I can guess where that is going to lead.

  20. #20
    nobody
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit
    However, it is part and parcel of their religion to patronize Mormon businesses, and generally associate within their faith.
    Are you serious? I guess I've been doing it wrong for 33 years! I'm sorry you think this is part of the Mormon faith...it is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit
    Utah passed a charter school law a few years ago. This was a thinly veiled way of allowing Mormon influence to continue in the public schools in the SLC area. With the influx of non-Mormons into SLC, the schools were becoming too 'Gentile' for Mormon tastes. The Mormon solution was to allow charter schools that would continue the Mormon tradition of influencing and controlling the public school experience for their children.
    Like you said though, parents in Moab decided to put together a Charter school so they'd have more of a say in what their kids learn at school. From what you said, it didn't work out so well. I don't know anything about that other than what you posted up so I can't really comment on that. But I will say that when I moved to AZ, one of my friends (not LDS by the way) told me I needed to try and get my kids in a Charter school down here. His kids go to one in Logan and he was just raving about how his kids were getting better instruction and learning more than he thought they would in public school.

    I followed his advice when we moved to AZ and we couldn't be happier. The Charter school my kids go to is very focused on patriotism (they say the pledge of allegiance and sing a patriotic song at a flag ceremony every morning). They also have had fantastic teachers and are getting a much more disciplined education than they would in the public schools here.

    I think Charter schools can be a good thing if you look at them for what they are and can be rather than thinking they're a part of a Mormon plot to take over Utah.


    To the OP, I hope that if you relocate to UT that you and your family are treated well. I lived there for 10+ years and made lots of good friends of other or no faith. The recreation aspects of UT are incredible! You can bike in Moab one weekend and ski in SLC the next.

    It's definitely "different" feeling than other places I've lived (NJ, VA, NM, AZ). But I think you might like it if you give it a chance.
    I'm what Willis was talkin' about

  21. #21
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  22. #22
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    Lived there for 10 years and there is a very real divide between LDS and "gentiles" even in SLC. Not that I didn't meet great Mormon people, but the relationship with them was always surface based, never deeper. The news is LDS, the government...except Rocky, but I did live there for 10 years...so there is something to be said for that. The outdoor experience there is second to none....if I had kids I would not live there. I have family who grew up there non-LDS and they were excluded as kids. Bottom line is that it is one of the weirdest places I have ever been. The outdoors you will love...especially the skiing...politics will drive you crazy. I always thought it would change, but they own that state.

  23. #23
    JMH
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    Replace "mormon" with "born-again" and replace "utah" with "any midwest or southern state" and the politics and society work the same way, except the riding here blows all that away. Plus, you can't blame Mormons for the scumbags in charge of the US government (yet!)

    Living under the radar is one of the coolest things about Utah. You will never meet as many other people who live in the same place for the same reasons you do. I love the land here, I care about the community and neighborhood that I live in, and that has nothing to do with inclusion in the LDS community. I just want to ride the trails and live in the most beautiful place on the planet. The Church don't seem to mind my tax dollars one bit, and it's the friendliest place I have ever lived.

    JMH

  24. #24
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    I agree..

    I agree with you JMH, but you have to WANT to live under the radar. People with kids, or who would like to take a leading role in the community, may be left out if they are non-LDS in many places in UT, especially outside of SLC or Moab, or maybe St. George.

    You are correct about the born again influence in some parts of the country, but the difference is that the BA's don't control the entire state, even in Alabama or Tennessee.


    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    Replace "mormon" with "born-again" and replace "utah" with "any midwest or southern state" and the politics and society work the same way, except the riding here blows all that away. Plus, you can't blame Mormons for the scumbags in charge of the US government (yet!)

    Living under the radar is one of the coolest things about Utah. You will never meet as many other people who live in the same place for the same reasons you do. I love the land here, I care about the community and neighborhood that I live in, and that has nothing to do with inclusion in the LDS community. I just want to ride the trails and live in the most beautiful place on the planet. The Church don't seem to mind my tax dollars one bit, and it's the friendliest place I have ever lived.

    JMH

  25. #25
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    Just want to be happy

    I dont care about socializing with neighbors, i kind of stick to myself as far as that goes, i am not unfriendly, i like to chat for a few minutes and leave it at that. I can deal with the lds factor fine, the one big hangup is how my kids will be affected, some say they will some say they wont, i guess it is the luck of the draw in what neighborhood you pick. For my job i just need to be a few hours from the slc airport, maybe i could see if they would let me live in fruita co instead?????? I really want to live by the mountains for the recreational opportunities, but if my family is unhappy its just not worth it...

    bog

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    If you just need to be within a few hours of the SLC airport, then go with Park City. You will not feel a strong LDS influence there. The only problem is it's way more expensive than the rest of UT. I will say that being non-LDS in UT does impart a real sense of community with other non-LDS people. Not because it's us vs. them or anything like that. Just because it gives you something in common that you'd take for granted anywhere else, but in UT you don't take it for granted.

  27. #27
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    You guys are too serious!

    Lighten up everybody . . . if you are in Utah for skiing, biking, hiking, etc., you will not have time to mix with your Mormon neighbors.

    Yes, Utah is a bit provincial, but the people are generally nice and friendly. It also depends on where you live in Utah. Park City, Salt Lake City, Draper, Moab, tend to be more diversified than other cities in Utah. The crowd in Draper is young and open minded and if you are Mormon or not Mormon, no body will give a rat's azz.

    The key is to stay the hell out of more established neighborhoods where the baby boomers are entrenched in their Mormonism. Occasionally you will run into a prudish religious zealot, but what community does not have those. As for the politics, stay out of them and get a membership with Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance and let them do the dirty work.

    Also, keep in mind that a lot of the Mormon crowd are good bikers, because they did so many Boy Scout mountain bike trips down to Moab. When I was out east, all of the kids were thinking that they were so bad ass on their mountain bikes, but I have seen 8 year olds on slickrock that would make those eastern kids/adults look like sissys. The same goes for the skiing. East coast types that have not been out west have no clue as to the level of skiing and mountain biking that the landscape requires. I have seen ski bums from out east curl up into the fetal position when standing at the top of Alta looking down. The Utah folk may be religious, but they are generally hard core bikers and skiiers/snowboarders, hence, plenty of fun people to ride and ski with.

    The schools are just as good or just as bad as anywhere else. The school experience may actually be better in Utah than other states.

    Just be glad that the trails are vacant on Sunday and the ski resorts are empty on Sundays and you will have many a good day living in Utah.

    Its what you make of it.

    Chow

  28. #28
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    ^^^^^^Agree with Andykiller. I'm a Mormon myself and I ride with tons of non-Mormons. We get along just fine, the only difference is they might have a beer at the end of the ride and I'll have a Sprite or something . Yes there are some of those fanatics out there. But like he said you get those anywhere.
    Last edited by yoda2; 03-26-2007 at 02:38 PM.

  29. #29
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    You guys need to quit it!!

    I've been working long and hard for many years, perfecting my "Mormons are bad people" shtick! It's been very effective up til now, but if you guys start saying we are really nice people, then everyone will want to be here!

    We are really, really bad people...really! You don't want to come here...honest...we'll try to baptize you and stuff.
    Sworn to avenge, condemned to hell

  30. #30

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    Just a word of warning... if you move here, don't try to put "merlot" on your vanity license plate. (http://www.sltrib.com/search/ci_5459078)

  31. #31
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    Funny

    Quote Originally Posted by soboko
    Just a word of warning... if you move here, don't try to put "merlot" on your vanity license plate. (http://www.sltrib.com/search/ci_5459078)
    I found that article a perfect example of Utah weirdness. Bud MIller's life would be hell in Utah!

    And I wonder how the Utahans explain to the young'uns the prohibition on "Plates with the numbers six and nine, combined"?

  32. #32
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    Utah is what it is because of the Mormons. I don't particuliarly like all of the religious influences, but Utah is a nice place to live because of the religion in Utah. Look at things from the local or Mormon point of view. Locals can/will no longer be able to afford to live in Utah because of the rising home prices. Locals have seen their communities drastically change because of people moving into their community; it's gotta be difficult. I am a CT transplant myself. I'm just saying-imagine your childhood home so drastically changed.

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    Yes, things have changed here. I've been in Salt Lake for a long time, on and off, and I have a local (but non-Mormon) perspective.

    Salt Lake is really a schizophrenic city. It has the public personality that everyone outside the state imagines - head of the Utah state government, head of the Mormon church. Call this side "heads". And then there's the (usually) hidden, private flip side of that personality. Salt Lake has a thriving counterculture. One example is Rocky Anderson, Salt Lake's mayor (Google him if you don't know about him, he's an interesting guy). Call this side "tails".

    Could the two sides exist without each other? Who knows. It makes for an interesting place to live, though.

    But keep this in mind - none of that affects the mountain biking or skiing. You can safely ignore as much, or as little, of the politics and religion as you like. It really won't affect your life that much unless you let it.

    And if you really get sick of SLC - it's not that hard to get away, really. If you stay here a long time you will develop a love-hate relationship with the place. But like any other relationship, it only happens if you care about the other party.

  34. #34
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    Stay out of Utah County!

    Hello, a non-mormon here, just moved to Utah and a couple of words of advice.

    I was lucky enough to have visited this place many times before moving, it really is the best snowboarding and skiing in the world, hands down. A job opp presented itself and I made the call to move the family from liberal NY to the most conservative state in the US. My job is in Northern Utah County, geographically and fiscally I should have bought a home in Lehi or Saratoga Springs. Knowing what I know from previous trips and friends out here I choose to live in Salt Lake County. A large majority of my coworkers decided to choose the closer and cheaper options in Utah county. Needless to say they are wishing they had spent a little more $ and ended up further north where the ideals and morals are a little more liberal. I only wish I could have warned them before hand. Me, I live in a great neighborhood about 10 minutes to either big or little cottonwood canyons, approx 50% of my neighbors are LDS and all of them are cool. I fly fish with one of them, I ride with another. It truly is what you make of it, but if your family likes to socialize with neighbors and doesn't like to feel like an outsider in their own community then look to the Salt Lake area or $$$-Park City areas. If you like gang signs and drive byes and really cheap living look at West Valley City-Yikes!

    My family and I love Utah and the outdoor opportunities here trump an socio-religious BS for us.

    Oh yeah, watch out for those LDS MTN Bikers, something about clean living, no drink or smoke makes for monster MTB'ers. Those guys can climb like mtn goats. I need a lung transplant...

  35. #35
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    I guess It seems to me that if you are avoiding a place because of it's religious/socio-economic makeup, Your a bit hipocritical. Crime, education okay, but if you don't want to live with "them", I'm pretty sure I don't want to live with you.
    Also I grew up in Northern Utah County, Truth is, Per pupil spending is the lowest in the country. However college entry exam scores (SAT,ACT,etc) are in the top ten percentile. You could say, "Imagine if they spent more" Or you could marvel at the doing less with more culture.

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    Okay, I guess I am the exception to that rule. I meant to say Doing MORE with LESS.

  37. #37
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    The house across the street from us in the Aves just sold for $576,000. So much for affordable old Victorians. Here I come, Rose Park!

    C
    I only attempt to change the world in the appropriate World-Changing venues and forums.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdubmccarrel
    I guess It seems to me that if you are avoiding a place because of it's religious/socio-economic makeup, Your a bit hipocritical. Crime, education okay, but if you don't want to live with "them", I'm pretty sure I don't want to live with you.
    I don't think he has a problem with Mormons just because he asked the question. The question is a valid one, considering that there ARE laws in this city/state that you don't find in most other places, such as liquer laws. Also, not all Mormons are nice to non-Mormons. I'm not Mormon, but many of my friends used to be. From what they tell me, the Mormons are supposed to shun those that leave the church. My best friend and his wife just left the Church, and their own family is supposed to close the door on them. If they treat life-long friends and family members this way, it is a valid concern to wonder how non-Mormons will be treated. Depending on your business interests, not being Mormon in a very Mormon neighborhood can be a problem, regardless of how accepting YOU, as a non-Mormon, are. All that being said, as a physician, I have not had a problem, and my wife is getting along pretty well too, for the most part. We have no intention of leaving.

  39. #39
    JMH
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    rdalcanto-there is a VERY BIG difference (in the eyes of the Church) between non-Mormons (Gentiles) and Mormons who abandon the faith and leave the church. Being a Gentile is no big deal. But Mormons who reject the Church will definitely earn some time in the doghouse. Is this lame? Well for a long time the Catholics would kill you for this, which puts them in good company with Islam. So with history and sheer numbers on the side of Death for this transgression, I think a little LDS-cold-shoulder is pretty liberal.

    Just keep an eye open for the Danites!

    JMH

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdalcanto
    I'm not Mormon, but many of my friends used to be. From what they tell me, the Mormons are supposed to shun those that leave the church. My best friend and his wife just left the Church, and their own family is supposed to close the door on them. If they treat life-long friends and family members this way, it is a valid concern to wonder how non-Mormons will be treated.
    Wow! I hope you are not being serious. This is far from what the Mormon church teaches. If anything, just the opposite is true. It sounds like you know some bitter people trying to spin things for their own benefit.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdubmccarrel
    I guess It seems to me that if you are avoiding a place because of it's religious/socio-economic makeup, Your a bit hipocritical. Crime, education okay, but if you don't want to live with "them", I'm pretty sure I don't want to live with you.
    Stepping onto soapbox...

    If I was avoiding anywhere because of socio-religous whatever I certainly would not have moved to Utah. Avoiding putting my family at odds with semi-radical socio-religious views isn't hypocritical, it's smart! My point is, the folks that I know that have moved to Utah Cty vs SL Cty have regretted the decision based on how they've been treated. I was kindly warned about this treatment from some of my longtime friends here, both LDS and non-LDS and this formulated my decisions on where I want to live. I was told point blank by an LDS friend that you do not want to live in Lehi unless you are ready to convert or don't mind being ostracized. I personally have no religious affiliations or grudges. I understand what it's like when a group of outsiders move to your own "Zion". Where I grew up in Fla on the beach it used to be cheap to live. Then the word got out that it was a cheap paradise and now all you hear are NY-NJ accents and a basic 3 bdr house is well over 400K. Do I harbor guilt for being one of the invaders to your Zion, your damn right I do! But consider this, as a young single income family, we've been persecuted not for religion, but for earning potential. My family and I have been on an exodus for years until we found a place we could afford, that was a good spot to raise our kids, good outdoor access and had abundant jobs. Plot those places on a map in 2007 and you can count them on one hand. What can I do to make up for my guilt? I'm on the up and up, a taxpayer, a good neighbor, a steward for the environment, a good father, a good husband and an all around nice guy (not necessarily in that order). Do you need a BB tool, you can borrow mine. Is your bike DOA, use my spare. In the short time I've been here I have realized my wanderings were not in vain, it was just to help me realize the goods when you get it. And brother let me tell you, Utah has the goods in spades!

    Stepping down from soapbox...

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinch
    Wow! I hope you are not being serious. This is far from what the Mormon church teaches. If anything, just the opposite is true. It sounds like you know some bitter people trying to spin things for their own benefit.
    Isn't it true, that if you leave the church, and then your brother gets married, even if you are his "Best Man," you can not attend the wedding in the Temple?

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    It has nothing to do with whether or not you have left the church. Only members who have been through the temple and received something called endowments are allowed into most parts of the temple. Members in good standing who have not participated in ths ceremony cannot attend. Generally they wait outside with children and other family members for the couple to emerge. Very different from other secu;ar and even other religious ceremonies, but it has nothing to do with anyone being shunned. As a point of fact, Mormons do not shun. It is not a part of our doctrine. We are taught to "Love the sinner, Hate the sin" I think it would explain things better to say that we are more irritating in trying to bring people "back into the fold".

  44. #44
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    Interesting. Thanks for the education.

  45. #45
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well

    Can't we all just get a long and ride!
    Isn't that what it's all about!
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbbrian
    Can't we all just get a long and ride!
    Isn't that what it's all about!
    I don't see anyone not getting along. However sweeping it under the rug would be the Utah thing to do.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashtestdummy
    I don't see anyone not getting along. However sweeping it under the rug would be the Utah thing to do.

    LOL!
    You have no idea how true that rings....
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefugitive
    Stepping onto soapbox...

    If I was avoiding anywhere because of socio-religous whatever I certainly would not have moved to Utah. Avoiding putting my family at odds with semi-radical socio-religious views isn't hypocritical, it's smart! .
    I guess I just don't consider myself(as a mormon) at odds with you or your children. If it makes you feel any better. I recently moved into a neighborhood in Eagle Mountain where I am the only member in a three block radius. I was pissed! No Elders quorum busting down my door to help me move in.

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    "Some people are like slinkys- They're not really good for anything, but it brings a smile to my face to push one down a flight of stairs." -Brigham Young

    When I was 10 years old (1976), my family moved from Las Vegas to Hurricane, Utah Back then, being a non-mo' was a minor issue, even in a small Mormon farm-town. In 2002 I, a big, long-hair'd bead-wearing mountainbiker, moved to Price from SLC- I was openly welcomed even by the oldsters.

    I LOVE UTAH!! And now I own my own successful bike shop, I'm involved in local pollitics, and am generally liked and respected. (If they only knew...)

    I've lived other places (California, Kansas, etc.) and they all SUCK ...well, I like it better here anyway.

  50. #50
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    It is interesting to hear the wide variety of views expressed thus far in this thread. Utah is a very interesting location...especially given the history of the mormons.

    I'm a mormon living in a predominantly non-mormon area, I'm generally looked at as a wierdo for my faith...in fact we get grafitti on our church buildings on a quasi-regular basis. It is unfortunate, but it happens.

    Myself, I'd love to do a road trip and hit Moab for some awesome riding...it would rock and seriously increase my riding skills. Of course, I'd also love to visit Temple Square and a bunch of the temples down there too...

    As with all areas, you have to keep an open mind to the history, socio-political and religious background in order to appreciate why things are the way they are. After that, it is just a matter of mutual respect.
    As if four times wasn't enough-> Psycho Mike's 2013 Ride to Conquer Cancer Page

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  51. #51
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    I dont think

    I don't think this question is a bit hypocritical. I am a non-Mormon living in Utah and would have loved to know what I know now. You can not tell me the social structure of many medium to small sized towns are not centered around the church. I am not saying there is anything wrong with this, but it is hard for an outsider to be deeply involved in their community as an outsider. Another reason is politics, you cant tell me an area like Logan where I live, religion does not influence local politics, or even the school systems? If you say they don't, please explain why there is a LDS institute on a land grant university's property at USU, on the adjoining lot next to a public school in Smithfield, and please break down the percentage of LDS vs Non-LDS representatives in Utah.

    I guess another way to look at it is I would really have to check out some areas of the deep southern bible belt, especially if they were smaller towns before moving. In my opinion there is no such thing as church and state, and it is really hard to separate yourself from the state you live in last time I checked!


    Quote Originally Posted by Jdubmccarrel
    I guess It seems to me that if you are avoiding a place because of it's religious/socio-economic makeup, Your a bit hipocritical. Crime, education okay, but if you don't want to live with "them", I'm pretty sure I don't want to live with you.
    Also I grew up in Northern Utah County, Truth is, Per pupil spending is the lowest in the country. However college entry exam scores (SAT,ACT,etc) are in the top ten percentile. You could say, "Imagine if they spent more" Or you could marvel at the doing less with more culture.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdalcanto
    many of my friends used to be. From what they tell me, the Mormons are supposed to shun those that leave the church. My best friend and his wife just left the Church, and their own family is supposed to close the door on them. If they treat life-long friends and family members this way, it is a valid concern to wonder how non-Mormons will be treated.
    My parents are what I like to call a wee bit nuts into the Mormon thing and they still speak to me...and pay my dental bills...

    It seems to me anyone disowning their children over religion is already batsh!t crazy and would use any number of other excuses to do stupid crap if teh jeebus was not in their lives.
    It's just frustrating sometimes being an Athena...

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyTheBikeGuy
    "Some people are like slinkys- They're not really good for anything, but it brings a smile to my face to push one down a flight of stairs." -Brigham Young
    Brother Brigham was really ahead of his time, especially since the slinky was invented in 1945.

  54. #54
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    Well I think anywhere you go you will see a natural influence of the local religion and/or culture. Political leaders have their own individual standards and values and when they are in office they try to do what they feel is right (although there are exceptions). Ever been to Rome? Yeah a bit of Catholic influence around there. Ever been to Mid Ohio? There is a huge racetrack there...and no racing whatsoever on Sunday, actually it's a law there. That town is also way more of a ghost town on Sundays than anywhere in Utah, completely dead on Sundays. Yes there are conservatives and liberals in any church, including the LDS church. There's over 12 million of us and we're not all exactly the same.

  55. #55
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    I grew up just outside of Las Vegas, now there's an intetresting mix of people. Las Vegas was originally settled by mormons after the spanish left. It still has a large mormon poplulation, mixed through out "sin city". All of my friends were non-mormon, except one (oh ya, I'm LDS) and I never had a problem, neither did my friends, or the peolpe that knew me. Ya, I got a lot of funny looks at parties, and "why aren't you drinking" questions. But so what, those same people were always glad I was sober when I took them home that night (well maybe not, after all we were in high school and invincible ).
    It's all about being conciderate of others views, and have some common middle ground. Look at it from others persons perspective (both sides need to do it) Which isn't just in religion.

    What was said about mormons shunning those that leave the church is of base. Does it occur, sure, does the church teach it, NO. That is just an individual family choosing to do it(This might be a shocker, but not all mormons are perfect and live what the religion teaches, note the sarcasm). Some of my friends have decided to be baptized into the LDS church, and you know what, there families (not all, but some) have ostersized and shunned them. hmm, must be some kind of falicy or conspiracy going on. You choose.

    At the moment I live in Utah (where people can be closed mind to other religions, or atheism) attending school, and it is the polar opposite of Vegas. Am I rubbed wrong because of it, No. Was I rubbed wrong when I lived in Vegas (Where people can be closed mind to certain religions, or religion in general), No. I just live with it, and enjoy meeting new people, new places, and new experiences. Each place one chooses to live is going to have it's pro's and con's.

    All that said, I've found in my experiences when moving to other place (place that are far different from what I've been acustomed too), I'm the one that has to go out of my comfort zone and get involved and meet people. It human nature to get in a comfort zone and stay there. People that have lived in you Utah all there lives (just like anywhere alse), do not know anything different,and are quite content staying that way (good or bad). So make Utah what you will, but it's one of the best places to mtn bike, hike, and enjoy the outdoors .
    To bad I don't know how to ski or snowboard, it makes the winters almost unbarable compared to Vegas where I can mtn bike year round (during the summer it's a little warm, either have tto get up early, or head to the mtns).
    Oh ya, who ever said that utahn are monster mtn bikers because of the clean living...etc and needing a lung transplant, it cracked me up! I'm on the waiting list myself.
    Last edited by farmboybunk; 04-03-2007 at 06:13 PM.
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