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  1. #1
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    Hazard conditions?

    Figure Koko down is good to go, what about a little higher? Anyone have some beta on current conditions of Hazard? thanks MM

  2. #2
    Mojo0115
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    There is still plenty of Snow on the end section of Hazard as of Sunday April 26th.

    Koko down is good to go. Hazard needs some warm weather.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Maestro
    Figure Koko down is good to go, what about a little higher? Anyone have some beta on current conditions of Hazard? thanks MM
    It is best to ride it uphill at the present time. We have been starting at the top of the Kokopelli and riding it up towards Warner Lake.

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    Thanks zzsean!! So....traildoc, your sayin' it's good. If it's good to go up, it should be sweet to go down. Mud and snow are way easier to ride downhill!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Maestro
    Thanks zzsean!! So....traildoc, your sayin' it's good. If it's good to go up, it should be sweet to go down. Mud and snow are way easier to ride downhill!!!
    It really didn't look ride able or ridden to me on Sunday afternoon. The non-snow section was wet and muddy and that mud is goopy and nasty. But I didn't bother going up the trail and check it in more detail.

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    No worries zzsean..... ...I just thought I could get another enlightening response from the "traildoc".

  7. #7
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    We were up there on Wed and there was still tons of snow between the trees... Down below everything is dusty!
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  8. #8
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    Yeah, I was there Saturday and Hazard was still snowy but UPS was good to go, Saturday evening it rained in the lower elevations and snowed up higher.........so it's probably going to be even longer now.

    It was my first time to Moab and I tried my hand at "The Notch." That's a pretty gnarly move, only made it half way after trying to make the turn and beginning to endo I had to ghost the bike right into the tree
    I like bikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Maestro
    Thanks zzsean!! So....traildoc, your sayin' it's good. If it's good to go up, it should be sweet to go down. Mud and snow are way easier to ride downhill!!!

    Mojo:

    This is the deal about Hazard, the upper trailhead is at the same elevation as the Warner Lake campground and the campground is covered in snow so the road leading to the campground is CLOSED. The gate and therefore the road up to the trailhead stays closed until the campground can be open for camping. Even though the road may be clear of snow the road stays closed (since there is a gate at the bottom of the road) until the campground is opened. They don't care about mountain bike shuttles that tear up their road.

    Therefore those people who want to ride Hazard can ride up the trail from the top of the Kopopelli since the La Sal mountain loop road only separates them.

    As Sean said the bottom of the trail was still wet and muddy which means it probably wouldn't be that enjoyable to ride unless you are a hard core I-want-to-ride-Hazard-kinda-guy then you just ride up the trail backwards and deal with the pain that you will probably endure.

    If you enjoy that kind of pain then no one wants to stop you having fun in the bentonite clay mud. Make sure and bring a pressure washer and about 20 gals of water to get your bike clean, so you can ride down the Kokopelli after your finished.

    Take some pictures of the smile on your face and your bike covered in mud, so you can post them to other hard core I-want-to-ride-Hazard-kinda-riders. Until you have experienced the joy from cleaning that mud off your bike you just haven't lived life to the fullest.

    Hope that helps.


    TD
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    Mojo:

    This is the deal about Hazard, the upper trailhead is at the same elevation as the Warner Lake campground and the campground is covered in snow so the road leading to the campground is CLOSED. The gate and therefore the road up to the trailhead stays closed until the campground can be open for camping. Even though the road may be clear of snow the road stays closed (since there is a gate at the bottom of the road) until the campground is opened. They don't care about mountain bike shuttles that tear up their road.

    Therefore those people who want to ride Hazard can ride up the trail from the top of the Kopopelli since the La Sal mountain loop road only separates them.

    As Sean said the bottom of the trail was still wet and muddy which means it probably wouldn't be that enjoyable to ride unless you are a hard core I-want-to-ride-Hazard-kinda-guy then you just ride up the trail backwards and deal with the pain that you will probably endure.

    If you enjoy that kind of pain then no one wants to stop you having fun in the bentonite clay mud. Make sure and bring a pressure washer and about 20 gals of water to get your bike clean, so you can ride down the Kokopelli after your finished.

    Take some pictures of the smile on your face and your bike covered in mud, so you can post them to other hard core I-want-to-ride-Hazard-kinda-riders. Until you have experienced the joy from cleaning that mud off your bike you just haven't lived life to the fullest.

    Hope that helps.


    TD
    Helps a little...........what exactly do you mean "I-want-to-ride-Hazard-kinda-riders"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Maestro
    Helps a little...........what exactly do you mean "I-want-to-ride-Hazard-kinda-riders"?
    Mojo:

    I am assuming that you may be a person who really wants to ride Hazard and therefore you ask about if it is open when anyone in the know realizes it is not going to be open for shuttling for quite some time. So the reality is if you are the type that wants to ride it, you are going to have to ride up it backwards and if you do that I consider you to be an I-want-to-ride-Hazard-kinda-rider.

    I consider myself to be an I-want-to-ride-Hazard-kinda-rider since I have ridden up Hazard when it wasn't shuttlable. I normally do this when I am riding the Kokopelli down with a slow group of riders. So I ride up Hazard to kill some time while the rest of the group rides down to the Colorado.

    It has been my experience that 99.8% of the people who shuttle up to do the Kokopelli down don't ride Hazard uphill. So help me out are you going to ride Hazard uphill when you get to Moab since I assume you are going there pretty soon.

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    TD, I forgot about the gate. There will be no riding of Hazard uphill or downhill, I hear it's muddy. I ride up as little as possible. Have some fellas that haven't ridden Hazard, just trying to tack on as much as we can. Lookin' forward to trying the reroute of UPS! Thanks for the info..........on my way!!!!! MM

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    Update on Hazard?

    Anyone know if any of the shuttles are going all the way up to Hazard? Please post

  14. #14
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    Uranium cycles shuttle is going to Hazard. I rode it today, trail was in great condition with only 2 small mud spots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Maestro
    TD, I forgot about the gate. There will be no riding of Hazard uphill or downhill, I hear it's muddy. I ride up as little as possible. Have some fellas that haven't ridden Hazard, just trying to tack on as much as we can. Lookin' forward to trying the reroute of UPS! Thanks for the info..........on my way!!!!! MM
    Mojo:

    Did you and your buddies make it up to Hazard? Per Scott the gate is obviously open even thogh the camp ground is still not offically open. Hope you got your ride in. A friend of mine from Bellingham is riding it this mornng so maybe you got up there also.

    TD
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    Headed up to Hazard on Tuesday the 19th of May.
    How do you guys think it will be based on current conditions?

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    Hazard

    I was up there on Thursday and it was fine. A little damp, but not muddy. It will be perfect for riding. Have Fun.

  18. #18
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    Thanks for the heads up!
    =)

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    Mojo:

    This is the deal about Hazard... you just haven't lived life to the fullest.

    Hope that helps.


    TD


    That was awesome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    Mojo:

    I am assuming that you may be a person who really wants to ride Hazard and therefore you ask about if it is open when anyone in the know realizes it is not going to be open for shuttling for quite some time. So the reality is if you are the type that wants to ride it, you are going to have to ride up it backwards and if you do that I consider you to be an I-want-to-ride-Hazard-kinda-rider.

    I consider myself to be an I-want-to-ride-Hazard-kinda-rider since I have ridden up Hazard when it wasn't shuttlable. I normally do this when I am riding the Kokopelli down with a slow group of riders. So I ride up Hazard to kill some time while the rest of the group rides down to the Colorado.

    It has been my experience that 99.8% of the people who shuttle up to do the Kokopelli down don't ride Hazard uphill. So help me out are you going to ride Hazard uphill when you get to Moab since I assume you are going there pretty soon.
    Me thinks your not in the know.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Maestro
    Me thinks your not in the know.
    Mojo:

    Did you ride it?
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    Actually rode it today...

    Hazard was totally dry and dusty/sandy already. The winds have been nuking in Moab the last few days and it was hotter than hell...

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    Mojo:

    Did you ride it?
    Negative.......heard talk of opening.......figure, I missed by about a week. Rode from Koko down,.....probably enough, for who I was with. The reroute was better then I expected. Kinda miss the slickrock and the "little notch".

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Maestro
    Negative.......heard talk of opening.......figure, I missed by about a week. Rode from Koko down,.....probably enough, for who I was with. The reroute was better then I expected. Kinda miss the slickrock and the "little notch".
    Good to here the FS did a good job with the reroute. That will keep riders from wanting to check out th old route.

    My one and only friend rode Koko down it last weekend and said it was good except for the gap, which are in need of some TLC. Curious if you checked out th new LPS notch replacement? I hear it eliminates the climb once you get down to the lowest section on LPS.

    He also said the Jackson Trail creek crossing was very deep due to the Colorado being so high with the spring run off. He sad you had to wade through about two foot deep of water on the upper end of the bypass trail, which heads up stream on the west side of Kane Creek. The upper crossing is normally only 1" deep if the creek is running.

    TD


    TD
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  25. #25
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    So I read references to a "reroute" on LPS (and maybe other locations). Could someone be more specific? Are we talking the trail NOT going to what I've heard called "The Notch" or "Upper Body Bag" or "The Chute". We all know what that is. I always walked my bike down that and a lot of the next 50 yards as well. Has that all been bypassed? Details please!

    A couple of pics, one of the drop-off point for Hazard shuttles and a view down from Hazard into Moab waaaay over there. Many miles of riding yet to be done.
    Last edited by xcguy; 04-03-2011 at 10:58 AM.
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  26. #26
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    Those pics are beautiful. Some friends and I are coming to Moab on the 23rd of May.
    I've been reading this thread and would really appreciate a translation on some of the abbreviations and wording!
    We were hoping to catch a shuttle and ride to the tippy top of porcupine and then ride all the way back to town. Words such as "Hazard" and "LPS" and "Notch" and so on all tend to put "Metal Gear" type ??? above my head! Like that!
    Can one or a couple of you fine, fellow mountain bikers tell me exactly how this ride works?? Is it something called "The Whole Enchilada"?
    I would love some details.
    I.E.Go to town, get shuttle.
    Pay driver
    Go to trailhead...somewhere
    ride back to town.
    Get beer
    WWXD.
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    She used to clean the whole trail.

  27. #27
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    [QUOTE=xcguy]So I read references to a "reroute" on LPS (and maybe other locations). Could someone be more specific? Are we talking the trail NOT going to what I've heard called "The Notch" or "Upper Body Bag" or "The Chute". We all know what that is. I always walked my bike down that and a lot of the next 50 yards as well. Has that all been bypassed? Details please!QUOTE]

    XC:

    I believe the new bypass is about 200 yards or more back from the notch on the cliff band. If you miss it you can walk it backwards when you get to the highpoint of the climb after the original notch.

    The new notch is easier to get down and it eliminates the climb after doing the old notch drop. If you find it take some picture, those ones of Hazard were real nice.

    TD

  28. #28
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    [QUOTE=traildoc]
    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy
    So I read references to a "reroute" on LPS (and maybe other locations). Could someone be more specific? Are we talking the trail NOT going to what I've heard called "The Notch" or "Upper Body Bag" or "The Chute". We all know what that is. I always walked my bike down that and a lot of the next 50 yards as well. Has that all been bypassed? Details please!QUOTE]

    XC:

    I believe the new bypass is about 200 yards or more back from the notch on the cliff band. If you miss it you can walk it backwards when you get to the highpoint of the climb after the original notch.

    The new notch is easier to get down and it eliminates the climb after doing the old notch drop. If you find it take some picture, those ones of Hazard were real nice.

    TD
    To me "The Knotch" (I guess I'll call it that) was more of a dangerous sideshow. So few riders can actually clean it and many who thought they could got hurt trying. And if you get hurt there you're out there a long way from help. I could never believe that there wasn't some other way through that area that 90% of riders could actually ride.

    There are plenty of threads with pics showing Burro/Hazard/UPS/LPS/Porc and here's mine from last year that I posted on the Turner forum. A lot of them are up from Warner Lake which I'm sure is still snowed in, maybe not. I was hurting so I bailed to the road in the middle of LPS. For those wondering, I believe references to Koko (Kokopeli Trail) mean the section that connects Hazard to UPS.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...ght=Burro+2008
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  29. #29
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    Ok, so I rode the Hazard county trail down to UPS and to the "Notch" then back tracked about 1/4 mile and found the "SNotch". It was obvious that someone (BLM) didn't want the "SNotch" used 'cause it was well hidden by tree limbs and debris although there were tire tracks going down it. The "SNotch" keeps a rider up on the rim and the trail is well marked and well ridden. It drops you out right at the Porc Rim overlook and is a much better alternative to the erosion taking place on the trail after the "Notch". Can't imagine why the "SNotch" isn't the way to go. Had a great ride. Dave

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by turner_dave
    Ok, so I rode the Hazard county trail down to UPS and to the "Notch" then back tracked about 1/4 mile and found the "SNotch". It was obvious that someone (BLM) didn't want the "SNotch" used 'cause it was well hidden by tree limbs and debris although there were tire tracks going down it. The "SNotch" keeps a rider up on the rim and the trail is well marked and well ridden. It drops you out right at the Porc Rim overlook and is a much better alternative to the erosion taking place on the trail after the "Notch". Can't imagine why the "SNotch" isn't the way to go. Had a great ride. Dave

    TD:

    Are you saying the beginning of the SNotch was covered with tree limbs that were placed in the middle of the trail? Did you have to move them to ride down it? Did you clean the drop or have to walk it?

    When you say it is much better alternative to the Notch is that because most riders will have a better chance of riding it to the bottom of the cliffband due to their lower bike skills and many people don't like to do the climb on the Notch route?

    It doesn't make sense that the BLM would not want riders and hikers to use it.

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    Doc: We did not move the debris from blocking the "SNotch" just walked out bikes over it and walked down the rock face because there wasn't a clean transition and the trail was soft and that early in the ride I did not want an OTB.

    I am a trail designer and builder and the Notch trail defies good trail building techniques of never build a trail directly up or down the fall line because it is not sustainable. The "SNotch" trail however utilizes good trail building technique of traversing the fall line and I expect will become the standard route to follow replacing the Notch section of unsustainable trail. My .02 worth!

    Looking back at the Notch section of trail from the Rim all you see is a huge erosion scar down the side of the hill that will take years to recover. If you ride this section of UPS please take the time to back track to the "SNotch" if you've missed it and you will thank yourself for the few minutes it takes and you will get to ride more fun on the edge. Dave

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by turner_dave
    Doc: We did not move the debris from blocking the "SNotch" just walked out bikes over it and walked down the rock face because there wasn't a clean transition and the trail was soft and that early in the ride I did not want an OTB.

    I am a trail designer and builder and the Notch trail defies good trail building techniques of never build a trail directly up or down the fall line because it is not sustainable. The "SNotch" trail however utilizes good trail building technique of traversing the fall line and I expect will become the standard route to follow replacing the Notch section of unsustainable trail. My .02 worth!

    Looking back at the Notch section of trail from the Rim all you see is a huge erosion scar down the side of the hill that will take years to recover. If you ride this section of UPS please take the time to back track to the "SNotch" if you've missed it and you will thank yourself for the few minutes it takes and you will get to ride more fun on the edge. Dave
    Dave:

    Out of all the trails you have designed and built which one would you guess gets ridden the most? Can we Google it to get an idea as to how much riders are enjoying it?

    Personally I will probably ride the Notch until I am unable to ride it safely. IMHO I don't think the amount of erosion going on each year is significant enough to not ride it.

    Geology students come to Moab from all over the world to study the rock formations that have been exposed due to mega massive erosion. Do you really think the erosion on the Notch is really a big problem to the environment, or is it just a tiny little inignificant problem that people who think any little insignificnt erosion problem needs to be presented as though it is a big problem?

    It will be interesting as to how the Snotch progresses since the current intel is that the BLM didn't build it. It would be interesting to get the info on the person (s) who are slashing it and what their reasoning is.

    Why didn't you and your buddies take the initative and throw the debris off the entrance and then build a big rock cairn to mark the new entrance for others to spot easier. Seems like the only way to get the Snotch alignment into the system is to get the masses to ride it.

    TD

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    The Grand Canyon started out as insignificant erosion. I believe trails should be built to be sustainable for years of use with minimal maintenance. The Notch trail is already an ugly scar and left unattended will only deteriorate. Any alternative is better than the current situation. What is your solution? My .02 worth. Dave

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by turner_dave
    The Grand Canyon started out as insignificant erosion. I believe trails should be built to be sustainable for years of use with minimal maintenance. The Notch trail is already an ugly scar and left unattended will only deteriorate. Any alternative is better than the current situation. What is your solution? My .02 worth. Dave
    I vote for an official split in the trail: left reads "much much harder" (going to The Knotch) and right reads "much easier" (going to something I've only read about, the Snotch). If I never have to clamber down the Knotch again it'll be just fine with me. Those who can ride it think it's the greatest thing, 99% of all other riders just put up with scrambling down it then braking uncontrollably down the next section. I mean, come on, there's a ton of riding to come, why throw in this circus sideshow of a section?
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by turner_dave
    The Grand Canyon started out as insignificant erosion. I believe trails should be built to be sustainable for years of use with minimal maintenance. The Notch trail is already an ugly scar and left unattended will only deteriorate. Any alternative is better than the current situation. What is your solution? My .02 worth. Dave
    Dave:

    You answer my posts like you are a politician, are you looking to be the Obama Trail Czar?

    I could be wrong here, but I believe there are only two ways off the cliff band the Snotch and the Notch. That being said when the trail was originally built the Notch was the better option to put in a trail quickly before winter set in, and let it sit for the winter before it would be open to the masses.

    The jury was out on whether the sand would ever pack in to make a decent trail surface as you know sand works fine if you are getting rain fairly often, but that's not the case in Moab. So it was decided to start the original trail at the cattle guard and run it down the wash, which parallels Sand Flat Road for a couple hundred yards. The wash allowed the initial routing to be out of the sand.

    At some point in the wash it was decided the original trail had to start cutting right to head to the cliff band and the Notch. If you were to check out the routing of the original LPS you would discover there were very few options to keep the trail on a rocky surface to minimize soft sandy sections. The reason why the OLPS routing goes up and down so much was to find areas with as little sand as possible.

    It is my guess that the Snotch will eventually become the route used by the majority of the riders since a lot of riders don't have the bike experience to ride the steep eroded section. I don't think riders will access the Snotch from the original routing since I believe you would have to ride uphill once you got to the cliff band.

    Being that there were possibly only two options of getting off the cliff band really made the build difficult from a totally sustainable point of view. Without pushing through the original LPS it would be interesting if anyone or group would have been motivated to push that section through.

    For one thing I am sure the trail would have never started at the cattle guard, which certainly turned out to be the perfect starting point for all the shuttle companies. I don't think very many trail designers would have come up with that routing since it was initially thought the trail might start from the campsite next to the rim which turned out to be problematic, so it was routed starting in from the rim at its current location.

    Since you are a trail designer have you looked into the Moab topography much to come up with some ideas for the locals and government agencies to use in the next epic totally sustainable routing of a new trail? I would be curious what you may have come up with to help improve the riding scene there.

    TD

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