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  1. #1
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    Upset Four foot Single Track. Shoreline

    Another thread about sanitizing our favorite trails. This is on the Shoreline right east of City Creek. Finally got my photos of this posted. I can't believe they messed up the only technical part of the trail. The only good part is that the rain seems to be removing the "hard placed" dirt. So it might convert back to the cobbles.



    I did some searching and found this https://www.sltrib.com/outdoors/ci_12536840

    Volunteers huffed and puffed their way up the trail, removing rocks, adding fill dirt where needed and widening the trail to four feet.

    Salt Lake City watershed ranger John Wells said the goal was making the trail more family-friendly. Mountain bikers who enjoyed testing their technical skills on the rocks that littered the trail might not approve, but it's necessary work in an area so close to the city, Wells said.




    rocks now resting on the side of the trail

  2. #2
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    Ya I gotta agree with you there.

    Seems like the trail in that area was just fine to me. I have always seen families walking up it without a problem. I wonder why they choose to work on sections of the trail that are fine, but leave the parts that are overgrown and hard to pass because tree branches are sticking out alone. Guess its hard to make everyone happy, but I wish they would just leave things alone and put ther trail building efforts into new trail.
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  3. #3
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    Boy, 'family values' is sure shaping up really nicely. I guess you can now lump rangers in with the pedophiles, Republicans, Born Again Christians and the like.

    Reminds me of what they did on Pipeline up Millcreek a number of years back. Smooth as silk as wide as the average American's fat a$$.

    Some of you might recall a half a$$ed effort to do something similar up Mill D. The bottom section was buffed out and widened and that short, rocky climb section (heading towards the trail head) was jackhamered flat. A few years later that rocky section is nice and rough again and there's plenty of off camber, sharp granite poking out to wash your front wheel out if you're sleeping on the descent.

  4. #4
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    It will return to it's techy state, that trail gets so much traffic......

  5. #5
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    I have to rant (sorry):

    All it will do is cause us mountain bikers to ride faster now with the buffed out 4 ft wide trail. Do you think that Mountain bikers going 2 to 3 times as fast will make it "family friendly"? All this is going to cause is us getting kicked off the BST eventually so that the strollers can be pushed up and down the BST!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by supersize
    Another thread about sanitizing our favorite trails. This is on the Shoreline right east of City Creek. Finally got my photos of this posted. I can't believe they messed up the only technical part of the trail.......
    Quote Originally Posted by pedalfaraway
    Seems like the trail in that area was just fine to me.......Guess its hard to make everyone happy, but I wish they would just leave things alone and put ther trail building efforts into new trail.....
    [sweetblog]
    I can't help but find the two of you complaining about the sanitization of a trail a bit funny after both of you voted against the addition of advanced features on Bobsled.

    At least you are consistent in your b!tiching about change.......[/sweetblog]

    B
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bortis Yelltzen
    [sweetblog]
    I can't help but find the two of you complaining about the sanitization of a trail a bit funny after both of you voted against the addition of advanced features on Bobsled.

    At least you are consistent in your b!tiching about change.......[/sweetblog]

    B
    Snap! Oh no you didn't!
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bortis Yelltzen
    [sweetblog]
    I can't help but find the two of you complaining about the sanitization of a trail a bit funny after both of you voted against the addition of advanced features on Bobsled.

    At least you are consistent in your b!tiching about change.......[/sweetblog]

    B
    Very nice.

    I voted against features in the main line. The big ones were the double bumps/jumps right in the main line and the crappy wooden features that drop to flat or are the same size as the natural drops. I like a lot of the stuff in there and am about ready to hit the car gap. I've been playing around at I-Street.

    I am b!tiching about existing lines.

  9. #9
    JMH
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    Funny thing is the dumbasses built waterbars! Um... 1930 called and they want their trail technology back. Those are going to cause plenty of damage on their own, so they simply traded ankle busting rocks for ankle busting ruts.

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    The conversation I had on the day of sanitization......

    I was the first biker down on the morning they were working on that. They had just finished and let me through. (One guy at the top said he radio down to the others headed up and let them know a biker was coming.) I was going uber slow, creeping really, and came up on a ranger and he said "well, you'll be able to fly down now!" I stated that I actually liked it better the way it was, and he replied "yeah, but we had to clean it up. It is after all a hiking trail", to which I replied "multi-use". He then donned his deer-in-headlights face and on I rode. This was a parks guy too. "Hiking trail".....nice.......at least they left the one tight lefthand switchback half way down alone.......

  11. #11
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    Four foot single track is no good. I think that would be called a freeway

  12. #12
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    what so bad about leaving things alone?

    Both this section of the trail and the Bobsled were great and have been great for years with very none or very little repair, sanitation, or evolution. The Real funny thing is that a freeway has been built, jumps have appeared disappeared, reappeared, and redisappeared, and nobody have bothered to fix the water damage in the upper half, which is really the only part of the trail that needs anything. Also the shoreline trail headed west from city creek could use some tree trimming.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mooddude
    I have to rant (sorry):

    All it will do is cause us mountain bikers to ride faster now with the buffed out 4 ft wide trail. Do you think that Mountain bikers going 2 to 3 times as fast will make it "family friendly"? All this is going to cause is us getting kicked off the BST eventually so that the strollers can be pushed up and down the BST!
    mooddude pretty summed it all up.

    Given the fact that I ride with 31inch bars gives strollers a hair over a foot to get the hell out of my way. My rationale is that if you're up there on any type of wheels then you're sitting in the same boat as us mtb'ers, strollers, recumbant, mountain-uni, those ghey-ass mountain boards, wheelchair, one of those mechanic roller thingy's you slide under your car to work on it, etc....

    Can't wait until all the hoardes of breeders here decide the Crest is too technical and want to take grandma and the seven new borns on a stroll and push to get it paved.

    Back in the mid-90's a good friend of mine and I were hiking Kings Peak in the Uintas and he mentioned in passing that the backcountry would be seriously dumbed down before we got too old and relied on Jazzy's to motor our fat asses around. He joked that in 20 years there would be a road cut and paved to the top to get all the lazy, fat f#cks to the top as ADA lawsuits were running rampant then and obese women were suing because hiking the Grand Canyon was too hard and the oft used guide horses would tire out and keel over dead should someone of her girth attempt to ride one. Another good friend of mine's boyfriend is a river guide based out of Fairbanks, AK. His outfit was sued two years ago when an obese woman lied on her application about her conditioning, etc.... When she showed up at the pre-trip meeting they refused to take her out on the 7 day trip as the rivers were running low which meant dragging those big, heavy rafts long distances over shallow sections and seeing as how she was out of breath carrying her suitcase from the van into the building they felt her safety and the safety of others in the group would be in jeopardy. She turned around and sued them citing a number of reasons one of which as that she should not be expected to do manual labor on a river trip-into the AK backcountry.
    I would have never thought that BS like this would be happening years before I turned 40. Let's turn America into a nation of pu$$y's.
    Last edited by slcrockymountainrider; 07-03-2009 at 08:31 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCOOTERINSLC
    I was going uber slow, creeping really, and came up on a ranger and he said "well, you'll be able to fly down now!" I stated that I actually liked it better the way it was, and he replied "yeah, but we had to clean it up. It is after all a hiking trail", to which I replied "multi-use". He then donned his deer-in-headlights face and on I rode. This was a parks guy too. "Hiking trail".....nice.......at least they left the one tight lefthand switchback half way down alone.......

    This is what scares me. There are already hiking only trails in City Creek. Not sure why they had to mess with this one. Is it that hard to walk over cobbles. What next? head up to the Gate Buttress and add in some via ferratas to make it easier for hikers.

    I don't think he understands the "well, you'll be able to fly down now!". Like mooddude said the faster speeds will only cause more problems.

    Oh, they did add fill dirt to the switchback but the rain is washing it out and it is getting to the old state.

  15. #15
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    Decided to skip Park City last night and did a jaunt up Dry to City and check out all the hype. I have to say that I was expecting a bit more carnage than what was described in this forum but honestly didn't think it was too bad. However, I got a laugh at the new fence they put up between the I-Street jump park and this trail. Not quite certain what that's supposed to do other than add a medium for graffiti.

    With those few nasty thunderstorms we've gotten recently the trail is starting to show a bit of rock already compared to the photos posted above.

    Besides the cowboy fence to keep the beaters away from the lycra yuppie crowd, the only drawback I can see to the whole thing are those makeshift waterbars down towards the bottom of the City Creek single track between the edge of the jump park and the road. They placed them right in the apex of each turn and a couple down low, in blind corners, are going to take some novice riders out as they're high, at the worst possible angle and riding over them is like hitting a loose rock the size of a football. If you're not on it and paying attention they can catch your front wheel and send you.

  16. #16
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    Just rode it last night and have to agreee with SLCRMrider's post. I did like the rocks but more will appear sooner than you think. You can seriously haul through there on a bike now so it may not have been the right approach.

    The waterbars below towards the exit into City creek are HORRIBLE. Def some of the worst placed bars I have ever seen, do they know that bikes ride this trail? Novice bikers are going to be eaten alive on those things but at least the strollers won't get their wheels wet.

    I realized again why I usually ride in PC during the summer. Shoreline was hot, kind of crowded and trashed from people riding it during the rainy spell we had. Nights, fall and Spring are the shoreline's best seasons/times.

  17. #17
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    Don't worry, the rocks are coming back!

    I took these two photos a couple of weeks ago at the switchback. I'm sure that by now even more rocks have eroded out. It looks like the work that was done will probably do more to promote trail erosion than to prevent it in the future.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris C.
    I took these two photos a couple of weeks ago at the switchback. I'm sure that by now even more rocks have eroded out. It looks like the work that was done will probably do more to promote trail erosion than to prevent it in the future.
    So if it is going to go back to the way it was, why does anybody care? If it is going to be more eroded, rocky and bumpy, then that should be a good thing right?

    People who ride the BST to get their tech on are beyond stupid.
    Last edited by PussNbooty; 07-09-2009 at 05:50 PM.

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    Because its a bad precident

    and it just makes the drainage issues worse because it makes the trail sit deaper. The dig out all the rocks, and then the rain washes all soil away exposing new rocks, and repeat. Soon the trail is 3 feet lower then the surrounding area and will be that last thing to dry because water will pool there. This can then be solved with more waterbars. The rocks are actully erosian resistant

    The worst part is that they are wasting all of the voulenteer labor on sections of the trail that are better left alone, and leaving alone sections that could use work, and not building any new sections. Just seems like alot of work for nothing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalfaraway
    The worst part is that they are wasting all of the voulenteer labor on sections of the trail that are better left alone, and leaving alone sections that could use work, and not building any new sections. Just seems like alot of work for nothing.
    BINGO!

    That's what makes me crazy, when I see all this time and effort that was WASTED working on a trail that is just fine, when we could be concentrating on NEW singletrack. By adding more trails, existing user issues/conflicts are mitigated, trail damage is minimized and we spread out the concentration of traffic from a few over-used trails to a wider network....at least that's my thinking.

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    Hmmmm....perhaps our lovely Mayor, Ralph Becker is not as bike friendly as he claimed to be in his campaign.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by PussNbooty
    Hmmmm....perhaps our lovely Mayor, Ralph Becker is not as bike friendly as he claimed to be in his campaign.
    So how does a bit 'trail maintenance' on the BST tie in with Mayor?

    Hmmmm....perhaps our lovely PussNbooty and Ralph Becker aren't as bike core as they claim to be and are the one's kicking down jumps on the Bobsled.

    See what I'm sayin'? Nope? Oh well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slcrockymountainrider
    So how does a bit 'trail maintenance' on the BST tie in with Mayor?
    Because if I'm not mistaken it was the city who did the work. I don't particularly care what happens to an uninteresting bit of trail, but then again I'm not the one b*tching about it in a public forum.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by PussNbooty
    Because if I'm not mistaken it was the city who did the work. I don't particularly care what happens to an uninteresting bit of trail, but then again I'm not the one b*tching about it in a public forum.
    Posting a comment in a Thread intended to complain about something puts you in the 'guilty by association' classification. You can b*tch about something directly or in a round about way. Either way it's still b*tching.

    I really doubt the Mayor took the time to personally direct anyone to head up City Creek to pull rocks off 100 feet of multi-use trail and throw up a 10ft long fence to stave off cyclists.

    Granted, it was a waste of time as this Thread is now a waste of time.

    Keep on keepin' on.

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    I don't think you understand how politics works. The city did the work. Ralph Becker runs this city. Ralph Becker is responsible for the actions of his employees, therefore Ralph Becker is responsiblefor the work.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by PussNbooty
    I don't think you understand how politics works. The city did the work. Ralph Becker runs this city. Ralph Becker is responsible for the actions of his employees, therefore Ralph Becker is responsiblefor the work.
    Weren't you the one who just posted: "but then again I'm not the one b*tching about it in a public forum" and "I don't particularly care what happens to an uninteresting bit of trail"????

    And I don't think you understand how volunteering works. The volunteers did the work, not the city. I don't think Ralph Becker is responsible for the volunteers any more so than he's responsible for the actions of the guys who volunteered to do trail work, and destruction, on the Bobsled.

    For someone who doesn't care about an 'uninteresting bit of trail' you're sure spending a lot of time loitering in a Thread dedicated to it.

    Personally, I always looked forward to hitting that section as it was always a great end to a nice after work, quick ride if I couldn't make it up to PC. The rocks only lasted a handful of yards, but made an ok trail a bit better.

    Again, trail maintenance does not mean anti-biking. Seriously.

    Welcome to MTBR.
    Last edited by slcrockymountainrider; 07-10-2009 at 03:29 PM.

  27. #27
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    The Trail Maintance was the work of

    www.bonnevilleshorelinetrail.org

    It was thier national trails day project.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bortis Yelltzen
    [sweetblog]
    I can't help but find the two of you complaining about the sanitization of a trail a bit funny after both of you voted against the addition of advanced features on Bobsled.

    At least you are consistent in your b!tiching about change.......[/sweetblog]

    B
    Looks like two different issues to me bro. Perhaps when you're done sucking on those sour grapes, you can give us your thoughts on this issue. (?)

    Here's mine:
    Trails are supposed to be rough. It's a trail, not a sidewalk. I stopped contributing to two Utah trail organizations years ago strictly due to this practice. They screwed-up, and continue to screw-up Mill-D, Pipeline and BST. As well as wasting precious resources (money and volunteer time), they're increasing potential user conflict by removing natural speed checks.
    Any trail organization personnel reading this thread? Here's a worthy project. Rebuild the trail crossing the east side of that rocky hillside south of the mid-mountain connector, north of the spine.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalfaraway
    www.bonnevilleshorelinetrail.org

    It was thier national trails day project.
    Thanks for the info.

    I guess that pretty much puts PussNBooty's rant to rest. [email protected] Nice one trying to hide your tracks with the Edit button. Too bad your original enlightening posts are already quoted.

    So why don't you enlighten us with the next conspiracy the Mayor's spending his time drumming up?

    I've heard in a change of heart, he's modding the Bobsled drainage and adding a high speed quad. 3 minutes from top to bottom.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheezl
    Looks like two different issues to me bro. Perhaps when you're done sucking on those sour grapes, you can give us your thoughts on this issue. (?)
    They weren't sour grapes, they were fermented grapes, they are delicious, and I don't plan to stop consuming them anytime soon thank you. They make me feel good.

    What are my thoughts on this? Well, I think there are some very fine trail builders in the Northern Utah area and Iíve been lucky enough to move some dirt with a few of them. Unfortunately I get the feeling they are bothered by the politics and bureaucracies that have to be navigated to build a decent bike trail in the SLC area and decide to spend their time working on trails that 95% of the people that ride bikes in the area will never see.

    I think some of the new trails in the PC/DV area are excellent and are prime examples of how to build a great and sustainable trail fun for hikers and bikers alike. I hear the "Bob" from Bob's basin is responsible for a lot of these. I think Flying Dog is a great example of a new trail that is pretty well built. I think WAFTA is a great addition but again I get the feeling they too are a bit frustrated about how to work within the systems in place for trail building and maintenance for the local trails. Unfortunately I donít think WAFTA has the membership #ís, $$ and pull yet to really do what they want to do, but Iíd love to see that change. I think Draper sounds to be pretty progressive and I like what I hear about their plans to expand trails in that area, but I live on the northern end of the SLC valley and those are not going to be the trials I ride every week.

    As far as City Creek goes, well I honestly only ride the section of trail in question a few times a year. I usually ride from Dry Gulch up and over and down Bobsled. Most of my time on the City Creek side is spent playing around at I-street on the ďkiddieĒ lines in the spring and fall. I know the area in question quite well, it was one of the more fun sections of an otherwise boring trail. Iím sad to see it has been altered but I canít honestly say I care too much. If I want a fun technical ride Iíll go elsewhere, so aside from the dumba$$ waterbars I donít really have a problem with them dumbing down a trial I didnít really consider technical in the first place.

    So that is what I think I think.
    B
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro....

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bortis Yelltzen
    They weren't sour grapes, they were fermented grapes, they are delicious, and I don't plan to stop consuming them anytime soon thank you. They make me feel good.

    What are my thoughts on this? Well, I think there are some very fine trail builders in the Northern Utah area and I’ve been lucky enough to move some dirt with a few of them. Unfortunately I get the feeling they are bothered by the politics and bureaucracies that have to be navigated to build a decent bike trail in the SLC area and decide to spend their time working on trails that 95% of the people that ride bikes in the area will never see.

    I think some of the new trails in the PC/DV area are excellent and are prime examples of how to build a great and sustainable trail fun for hikers and bikers alike. I hear the "Bob" from Bob's basin is responsible for a lot of these. I think Flying Dog is a great example of a new trail that is pretty well built. I think WAFTA is a great addition but again I get the feeling they too are a bit frustrated about how to work within the systems in place for trail building and maintenance for the local trails. Unfortunately I don’t think WAFTA has the membership #’s, $$ and pull yet to really do what they want to do, but I’d love to see that change. I think Draper sounds to be pretty progressive and I like what I hear about their plans to expand trails in that area, but I live on the northern end of the SLC valley and those are not going to be the trials I ride every week.
    B
    Not to take anything away from Bob Radkey, but Troy Duffin's the person who's most responsible for the trail system in the Glenwild area, not only the installation (Alpine trails.com) but the legal and political wrangling that opened up Glenwild and Snyderville basin to trail building over a decade ago.
    If I were on WAFTA's board I'd seek Troy's wisdom.
    He's a generous guy, I don't think he'd mind if you guys at wafta picked his brain.
    [email protected]
    He's also one of the directors on Mountain trails foundation board.
    www.mountaintrails.org
    P.S. If you talk to him, don't mention your "right" to modify existing trails.
    Last edited by Shelbak73; 07-16-2009 at 08:47 PM.

  32. #32
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    Speaking of 'modifying' existing trails. Looks like the entrance to the Graduate over by the school has been 'modified' by the new land owner. Some might recall the big metal box that blocked the bridge that led up to the Graduate and the Cutthroat DH/Ant Farm/The Drop Out and Flying Dog for some of us. Now there is a sign with a reroute through the neighborhood by the golf course. I took it this afternoon both out and back, as there was a guy there cleaning up the property when I started. As I was coming back there were two trains of cyclists coming across his property and the bridge which is now kinda blocked by his snowmobiles. It'll be interesting to see how that all plays out.

  33. #33
    JMH
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalfaraway
    www.bonnevilleshorelinetrail.org

    It was thier national trails day project.
    I counted at least three major building no-nos in one 50ft section of trail on Saturday. Oy.

    But on the real-life front, MTBR members and WAFTA have gotten in touch with the group and they are receptive to future input. They admit to having very little trail building knowlege and are interested in getting up to speed with current IMBA and USFS standards.

    Of course you realize that if you complained in this thread you are by default volunteering to swing a pick when future build days come around.

  34. #34
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    To further clarify...Bob is responsible for just about everything in Bob's Basin, except for the climb from the bridge, which Troy did. Troy also did all of the Glenwild system, Cobblestone, 24/7, Flying Dog, etc.

    If you want to make contact, his correct e-mail address is [email protected]. Even though he sits on the board of Mountain Trails, his attitute toward ANY new trail construction is positive -- whether it's technically legal or not. So don't worry about ruffling any feathers talking about "unauthorized" work.

    As for the container and bridge situation, Senta Beyer, Trails Project Manager of the Recreation District (Bob's boss) is working hard on a solution, and they are pretty close. Plans have been drawn up for a new crossing to permanently detour around the property of the a**hole who keeps blocking the trail.

    For now, if the bridge is blocked, there is a good connection around the upper side of the Sewer plant, which dumps out (bad pun intended) on Sackett Drive just above the intersection with Homestead. It's a pretty quick ride from there to the elementary school.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelbak73
    P.S. If you talk to him, don't mention your "right" to modify existing trails.
    What about our "right" to maintain trails outside of "designated build/maintenance days"? Who draws the line between "maintenance", "modifications", "improvements" and "degradation"? One person's junk is another person's treasure......

    B
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro....

  36. #36
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    Thanks JMH for talking to them.

    As far as build days, it would be nice to post them in this forum and you may get more volunteers and maybe new members.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bortis Yelltzen
    What about our "right" to maintain trails outside of "designated build/maintenance days"? Who draws the line between "maintenance", "modifications", "improvements" and "degradation"? One person's junk is another person's treasure......

    B
    There's quite a difference between draining a puddle and adding a stunt, these are questions best put to Bob and/or Troy.

  38. #38
    Fragglepuss The Chaste
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelbak73
    There's quite a difference between draining a puddle and adding a stunt, these are questions best put to Bob and/or Troy.
    Oh Bortis, you're now forever linked to the Bobsled.

    I can just see it now; you show up for a trail day with your shovel and get turned away by the Man.
    "Whoa there! We don't want any of that Evel Knievel moto stunt stuff here. You can just put that shovel away and go ride your Bobsled trails."

    Poor [email protected]

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by slcrockymountainrider

    Personally, I always looked forward to hitting that section as it was always a great end to a nice after work, quick ride if I couldn't make it up to PC. The rocks only lasted a handful of yards, but made an ok trail a bit better.

    Again, trail maintenance does not mean anti-biking. Seriously.

    Welcome to MTBR.
    Agreed, was a fun section on a quick ride from the house.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by slcrockymountainrider
    Oh Bortis, you're now forever linked to the Bobsled.

    I can just see it now; you show up for a trail day with your shovel and get turned away by the Man.
    "Whoa there! We don't want any of that Evel Knievel moto stunt stuff here. You can just put that shovel away and go ride your Bobsled trails."

    Poor [email protected]
    ya-wanna hit the Bortsled after work?

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelbak73
    ya-wanna hit the Bortsled after work?
    Ha! I'm guessing the Bortsled's as hot as the top of the fat man's head riding around Liberty Park on a comfort bike with a baseball hat under his white Bell bike helmet right now.

    I'll pass until everyone heads back to business school in September and the temperatures cool down. The Bortsled's pretty fun at night as well. Mr welcorn and I had pretty sweet ride a couple years ago heading up in the dark and having it start to snow as we started down. It was so romantic.

  42. #42

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    For now, the realities for those riding on Forest Service trails (and even Salt Lake City land) is that you share those trails with other users and the trails will continue to be maintained to their general trail standards as they have been in the past. These are efforts to properly drain water off the trail.....Water flows and rocks re-appear! This is'nt anything new being done to 'dumb down' trails. ;o)

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