ebike access around Moab?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    ebike access around Moab?

    I should know better than to ask this here but legit question so here goes....
    Do any of you locals see people riding ebikes on the whole enchilada or other trails where they arent yet legal. I say "yet" with fingers crossed because IMO a place like Moab with high desert conditions and long challenging rides would be the ideal place to take advantage of some pedaling assistance, especially on a weeklong trip when trying to squeeze in as many miles as possible every day.

    I guess my question is, what are the penalties if caught and is there anyone actually checking?

    Ive read certain trails are ok for ebikes but wondering what to do if thats the only bike I bring and want to ride other trails with a group thats on regular bikes. I know this is a touchy subject across the country but having ridden both e and standard bikes for a while now with my current group, I cant for the life of me see why they are treated differently. (other than the old, Because the sign says so, argument)

  2. #2
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    Published ebike information for Moab: https://www.discovermoab.com/ebikes/
    From that page:
    "E-bikes are not allowed on any non-motorized singletrack INCLUDING all singletrack that is apart of the Whole Enchilada Trail system. "

    That link should answer your legit questions about e-bike access to everything around Moab.

    The other statements, questions, rationalizations and opening debate arguments should best be carried out on some non-location specific forum.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvan View Post
    wondering what to do if thats the only bike I bring and want to ride other trails with a group thats on regular bikes.
    There are plenty of MTB rental shops in Moab, you should rent regular bike for day or two. However, bikes availability gets tricky during peak season, so its better plan ahead and rent far in advance if you are planing to visit in Sept-Oct.

  4. #4
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    You shouldn't poach trails in Moab or anywhere else. There are a ton of places you can ride an ebike in Moab. The touchy word is "singletrack". You can't ride on any of the "new" singletrack because it was all built by a trails group that hates ebikes with a passion. You can't even ride an ebike on the PAVED bike paths in Moab, even in town, which is total bullshit, but Moab is more whack than Boulder now, so there you go.

    The other ebike issue in Moab that is total bullshit is the total ban on eBikes in Arches and Canyonlands. You can take a lifted Jeep or a highly modified dirt bike on White Rim or Elephant Hill in Canyonlands,, or the Turret Arch road in Arches, but you can't ride an eBike on those same roads. The rangers claim it is a Federal ban, but you can ride on Fall River Road in Rocky Mountain NP with an eBike, so clearly they are constipated old bitches that can't figure out their own regs.

    You can actually ride a couple of parts of TWE on an ebike, because those parts aren't "singletrack", but you can't ride any of the high forested parts, or UPS/LPS. The "traditional" Porcupine Rim is open to ebikes from the stock tanks to the motorized closure a few miles from the end. Not going to work with a group.

    You can ride ebikes on Slickrock, Amasa Back, Klondike Bluff, Hurrah Pass, Poison Spider, Little Canyon, Bull Canyon, Moab Rim, Flat Pass, anywhere a motorcycle can go. You can ride some stuff the MTBs don't normally ride, and have a total blast, like Hell's Revenge, Fins 'N Things, Hook and Ladder, Onion Creek, Top of The World, etc.

    You can't ride TWE, Mag 7, Bar-M trails, Navajo Rocks, Far North trails, Ahab, or any other recently built (last 20 years or so) singletrack. The only real singletrack open to ebikes is Sovereign, because it was built by/for motorcycles, and the trails at Dead Horse Point State Park, because all state parks in Utah are open to Class 1 ebikes. Other than that, you are limited to the trails built on old mining roads that are open to motorcycles and 4x4's. There are hundreds of miles of those.

  5. #5
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    Thanks, thats the kind of info I was looking for. Sounds like I'll be bringing my other bike. That really sucks to hear though, Moab would be amazing on an ebike. I can see hikers being anti ebike because they just want any excuse to keep us out but I really dont get other riders being against them. Ive been riding since 1990, every version of MTB there is or was and no BS, my ebike is more of a true mountain bike than anything else Ive ridden. Being lumped in with dirtbikes makes no sense, its not even close to being the same. We did a dirtbike trip out there 2 years ago and it was the best riding Ive ever done. At the time, it seemed to me like Moab was totally open to anything you wanted to ride or drive but I guess I was wrong.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvan View Post
    Ive been riding since 1990, every version of MTB there is or was and no BS, my ebike is more of a true mountain bike than anything else Ive ridden.
    ?

    That ain't right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    ?

    That ain't right.
    Agreed. Moab has virtually endless motorcycle trails. Take your e-bike there and leave my singletrack alone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tvan View Post
    I really dont get other riders being against them.
    Few assholes on ebikes riding way too fast and too dangerous make a lasting impression that unfortunately spreads on all e-bikers.
    Just like some shitheads on bicycles make a lot of drivers hate cyclists.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by borisotto View Post
    Few assholes on ebikes riding way too fast and too dangerous make a lasting impression that unfortunately spreads on all e-bikers.
    Just like some shitheads on bicycles make a lot of drivers hate cyclists.
    Blah blah blah.

    How many Class 1 ebikes have you seen being ridden "way too fast and too dangerous"? Please tell us exactly, because a Class 1 ebike goes no faster uphill than a fit rider, and no faster downhill than any other MTB.

    Do you know the difference between a Class 1 and anything else?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Blah blah blah.

    How many Class 1 ebikes have you seen being ridden "way too fast and too dangerous"? Please tell us exactly, because a Class 1 ebike goes no faster uphill than a fit rider, and no faster downhill than any other MTB.


    Electric bikes are ok, no need to defend them with untruthfulness. I'm pretty fit and have had riders on e-bikes ( class 1) blow by me like I was standing still on climbs while I'm redlining.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Electric bikes are ok, no need to defend them with untruthfulness. I'm pretty fit and have had riders on e-bikes ( class 1) blow by me like I was standing still on climbs while I'm redlining.
    I agree. I am also fit and have had ladies on class 1 ebikes blow by me (comparatively) on Seattle streets while I commute home. I ride a lot and fit and feel fast pedalwise on hills but when a 60 year old lady on a class 1 ebike can pass me in sandals and with her yoga mat in a basket on the back of her bike, I know that they can go faster than a bike uphill. I can easily catch a class 1 on the flats and can hang with a class 2 in the draft if I can catch them from a light (which I usually can't due to their much greater acceleration abilities). I can catch all of them on descents. Class 3 is a whole other thing though. They regularly throttle past me with traffic up the same hills.

    It is delusional to say that a reasonably fit rider can match a class one up hill unless that rather fit person is a CAT-1 rider, which I wouldn't call a fit rider, because this category rider can pass me on the hills here too like a Class 1 bike can.
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Blah blah blah.
    I don't give a flying toss about ebikes classes, but I did see ebike going over 40kmh on shared bike trail with my own eyes. Could be hacked, self-made or <insert_your_suggestion_here> - I don't really care.

    Asshole is an asshole, nothing to do with equipment he/she is using.

  13. #13
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    "...legit question so here goes..."
    "Do any of you locals see people riding ebikes on [ ] trails where they aren't yet legal."
    "what are the penalties if caught and is there anyone actually checking?"

    So, you want to go to Moab, where there are hundreds of miles of riding open to eBikes and poach illegal riding where it's not allowed?

    "...I really don't get other riders being against them..."

    I'm not against eBikes at all, just some of the riders!

    "...no BS, my ebike is more of a true mountain bike than anything else Ive ridden."

    WHAAAAT?

  14. #14
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    Please don't come here and deliberately break the rules just because you want to. The single track trails would be great on a motorcycle too, but certain uses need to be separated. I ride here several times a week and have NEVER seen anyone riding an e-bike on a closed trail. As previously stated there are plenty of motorized trails for e-bikes if that's what you choose to ride.
    If I saw someone? I'd stop them and send them back to the parking lot to meet with the BLM ranger who is on my speed dial.
    Am I an A-Hole? Maybe, but I prefer to cycle in peace and appreciate the effort put into our trails by Trailmix and don't want to lose the working relationship we have with BLM that allows us to have the abundance of great trails we have.
    A little respect goes a long way.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by borisotto View Post
    I don't give a flying toss about ebikes classes, but I did see ebike going over 40kmh on shared bike trail with my own eyes. Could be hacked, self-made or <insert_your_suggestion_here> - I don't really care.

    Asshole is an asshole, nothing to do with equipment he/she is using.
    I see non-ebikes going over 25MPH on shared paths every_single_day in Boulder. Ban non-ebikes?

    It ain't the bike, its the rider.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Electric bikes are ok, no need to defend them with untruthfulness. I'm pretty fit and have had riders on e-bikes ( class 1) blow by me like I was standing still on climbs while I'm redlining.
    I'm pretty fit, and I've had women riders blow by me like I was standing still on climbs while I'm redlining. Of course, this is Boulder, so they aren't average riders.

    Still, I'd like to ban them. It hurts my feelings, which I suspect is the same reason many people don't like ebikes.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    I'm pretty fit, and I've had women riders blow by me like I was standing still on climbs while I'm redlining. Of course, this is Boulder, so they aren't average riders.

    Still, I'd like to ban them.
    your kinda making a point against ebikes on non ebike trails. Banning the faster things would mean banning bikes and ebikes from the trails, something many trail users are pointing out as one of the reasons that when a trail is noted as no ebikes then it is no ebikes. Not ebikes at one's discretion just none. if you want to use the trails you are currently banned from using then go through the process of getting the trails released for your use type. Riding in on the coat tails of another user ain't going to serve any group well.

    I think SAM313 point is very valid. The trails were built by trail builders with the express support of the BLM and within their rules which means no ebikes. If you feel this is unfair then the BLM is the people you need to convince. Bitching about how it is unfair to other cyclists isn't going to turn them to your cause any more than us bitching to hikers or horse riders will get us on wilderness trails or back into Marin without speed limits.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    I see non-ebikes going over 25MPH on shared paths every_single_day in Boulder. Ban non-ebikes?
    I trust folks that are in a very good shape and could push their bikes that fast way more then any selfish ass on ebike going with the same high speed just because there is a motor inside. Skill's level most likely will be quite different just as the risk for the people around.

    It ain't the bike, its the rider.
    Exactly my point.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by borisotto View Post
    I trust folks that are in a very good shape and could push their bikes that fast way more then any selfish ass on ebike going with the same high speed just because there is a motor inside. Skill's level most likely will be quite different just as the risk for the people around.



    Exactly my point.
    No skill required to ride dangerously at over 25 mph. We have things called hills. The US-36 path between Boulder and Louisville has a mile long grade that tops out at 6%. I've seen people going 25 mph+ on wobbly old Huffys, on cargo bikes, on bikes pulling trailers, I saw a guy looking at his phone while riding 25 mph+ no handed, I've seen riders on longboards and one guy crouched down with his arms wrapped around his knees going at least 30 MPH on inline skates, passing riders going the same direction while barely missing riders going uphill in the opposite direction.

  20. #20
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    You have just touched on one of the reasons that it is a terrible idea for bike organizations to advocate ebike bans. Since study after study shows ebikes cause no more trail erosion than other MTBs, and it can be conclusively proven that an average rider on a Class 1 ebike can go no faster up or down than many non-ebike riders, arguing against eMTBs on trails is essentially arguing against *any* MTB use. I'm sure this will be used against MTBs soon.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Since study after study shows ebikes cause no more trail erosion than other MTBs
    Study after study? For 750w class 1 emtbs? Links please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    I'm pretty fit, and I've had women riders blow by me like I was standing still on climbs while I'm redlining. Of course, this is Boulder, so they aren't average riders.

    Still, I'd like to ban them. It hurts my feelings, which I suspect is the same reason many people don't like ebikes.

    Interesting story.

    I was responding to a post claiming that an e-bike rider is roughly equivalent to a fit person on a bicycle when climbing, which ime is definitely untrue. E-bikes are in a different league on climbs, a rider with average fitness on one could easily beat a pro.

    I doesn't hurt my feelings though.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    it can be conclusively proven that an average rider on a Class 1 ebike can go no faster up or down than many non-ebike riders
    I would like to see this conclusive proof you speak of.
    I would advise not taking my advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    No skill required to ride dangerously at over 25 mph.
    My point was for flat trails, not DH.
    As for people that are going way too fast for their skills/eq - I'm all in for natural selection, let it take its course.

  25. #25
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    The Moab solution: 2 push bikes + 2 ebikes

    Horses for courses, lotsa great trails in the area for both types

    ebike access around Moab?-moab-horses.jpg
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by watermonkey View Post
    I would like to see this conclusive proof you speak of.
    How many Class 1 eMTBs have you ridden?

    Any pro MTB rider could kick the ass of any average Class 1 eMTB rider on any real trail over 10% or so. I'll prove it. Average me on my eMTB, Howard Grotts on his hardtail. Slickrock would be a good venue.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    How many Class 1 eMTBs have you ridden?
    Enough to know that I actually go faster on a bike with a motor on it than a bike that doesn't have a motor on it. Its kind of the whole damn point of ebikes, isn't it?
    I would advise not taking my advice.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryman View Post
    Study after study? For 750w class 1 emtbs? Links please.
    https://b.3cdn.net/bikes/c3fe8a28f1a..._g3m6bdt7g.pdf

    https://www.rei.com/blog/cycle/mammo...mountain-bikes

    "The resort was greenlighted in 2016 for an e-bike category in an event called The Boogaloo at its annual Kamikaze Games. That limited use was instrumental in proving that e-MTBs didnít have any more impact than standard mountain bikes on Mammothís 80 miles of singletrack, thus shepherding their widespread adoption in 2018. "

    https://www.jeffco.us/3618/e-bikes

    Jeffco approved eMTBs after their pilot showed no discernible increase in trail erosion.

    It ain't rocket science. A 175lb rider on a 50 lb bike or a 190 lb rider on a 35 lb bike? I would argue the tire width and pressure make more difference if all you are looking at is equipment, but as with almost everything else around MTBs, the habits of the rider are the factors that far outweigh equipment differences. A doofus on a 20lb hardtail can easily do more damage to a trail than a 250lb guy on an eMTB. Which I believe supports my assertion that MTB groups signing on to radical agendas against eMTBs is going to backfire is huge way.

    Sierra Club: "We don't think it is appropriate for MTBs to be on this trail because of potential erosion issues."

    Bike advocate: "We believe MTBs ridden responsibly do not cause significant trail issues in areas such as this".

    Sierra Club: "You just told us last week that Class 1 eMTBs are going to destroy trails because of their increased weight and induced additional trail utilization." (Throws up powerpoint slide of an armored rider on an enduro MTB skidding down a local trail, and another slide showing braking bumps on a corner) "Were these caused by eMTBs? It seems that some MTB'ers are riding bikes almost as heavy as an eMTB, and they are wearing armor and carrying Camelbaks as well. I'm guessing some of these MTB riders and their bikes are weighing as much as some of those eMTBs you say are tearing up trails"

    Bike advocate: "Ummmm...."

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Any pro MTB rider could kick the ass of any average Class 1 eMTB rider on any real trail over 10% or so.

    Down, sure. Overall? Maybe. Uphill? No.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by watermonkey View Post
    Enough to know that I actually go faster on a bike with a motor on it than a bike that doesn't have a motor on it. Its kind of the whole damn point of ebikes, isn't it?
    Jeesus, you just uttered the ultimate fallacy about ebikes that the vast majority of ebike haters believe.

    It *isn't* about going faster. It is about riders being able to actually ride some sections of trail instead of walking. It is about riding a tough trail for two hours instead of one. it is about being able to keep up with a group that would otherwise be waiting for 20 minutes at the top of every long climb. It isn't about blowing past people, it isn't about going faster than is safe, it isn't about roosting corners, because a CLASS 1 EBIKE CAN'T ROOST A CORNER.

    Time and time again people who have NEVER EVEN RIDDEN a Class 1 eMTB jump on threads and start bitching about things that a one hour ride on a good eMTB, ON AN ACTUAL TRAIL, would be cleared up forever. Give it a try.

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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Jeffco approved eMTBs after their pilot showed no discernible increase in trail erosion.
    Nobody disagree with that, its kinda obvious that some fat dude on regular bike would cause more damage to the trail than skinny girl on ebike (however there will be significantly more 'fat folks' on ebikes simply due to the fact they won't be there at all on regular bikes, so its not as one-sided as it could appear).

    But you failed to prove that

    Any pro MTB rider could kick the ass of any average Class 1 eMTB rider on any real trail over 10% or so. I'll prove it.
    When I see words 'all, any, every' - I smell rotten eggs.
    Be the man and back your words with facts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    It isn't about blowing past people, it isn't about going faster than is safe
    This could be so for you, however there are other people with very different ideas about what ebikes are for. Ever heard about enthusiasts removing factory set speed-limiters? Google it, you could be surprised.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by levity View Post
    The Moab solution: 2 push bikes + 2 ebikes

    Horses for courses, lotsa great trails in the area for both types

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is in no way intended to be an insult or judgement of you but your photo shows a great reason I think that A. people are defensive of their Ebikes and B. people are objecting to ebikes.

    Your photo shows something like what $10-15k of ebikes and probably similar in mountain bikes, attached to a, let say, $50,000 van. For a lot of mountain bikers $2,500 is a good amount of money to spend on a bike and many people have bikes that are worth more than their cars and not because they ride expensive bikes (Disclosure: I am definitely one of those but I also have multiple cars and ski in the winter and own my own home so I really I just don't spend money on bikes and good higher end cars).

    I would say some in the ebike community want validation that they spent a lot of money on their bikes and want to feel accepted by the community and not like they wasted a lot of money. Some are angry because they spent a lot of money on one of these bike and then are told they can't ride many trails they could when they had a bike before.

    I would say that some in the bike community feel like the ebike crowd are rich folks wanting to get their way because they can afford a multithousand dollar mountain bike and drive it to the trail, etc. Or even jealous of the fact that someone can spend that much money on a bike, same as people that show off their custom Ti bikes or fully built enduro carbon super bikes with $2500 wheels and such.

    I am not saying everyone feels this way or even anyone feels this way but there is a lot of unspoken nimbyism on bike riders sides and lot of unspoken angst of not belonging on ebike side and I would bet a lot of it is based on the fact that true mountain capable ebikes are a really expensive luxury and associated reactions are festering beneath.
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    https://b.3cdn.net/bikes/c3fe8a28f1a..._g3m6bdt7g.pdf

    https://www.rei.com/blog/cycle/mammo...mountain-bikes

    "The resort was greenlighted in 2016 for an e-bike category in an event called The Boogaloo at its annual Kamikaze Games. That limited use was instrumental in proving that e-MTBs didnít have any more impact than standard mountain bikes on Mammothís 80 miles of singletrack, thus shepherding their widespread adoption in 2018. "

    Mammoth's "study" was to have a look around after a weekend of ebike riding and say "It looks ok to me". I"m not questioning their decision, but land managers want data to back up their decisions, at least mine do, and that doesn't provide any. Talking to our local State Park Superintendent, I asked him how it was going with emtbs and he essentially said. "Fine. We don't see many, just a couple here and there." Any impact on trails themselves? -Shrug- "Can't tell." Is that a study too?



    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    https://www.jeffco.us/3618/e-bikes

    Jeffco approved eMTBs after their pilot showed no discernible increase in trail erosion.

    Jeffco's "study" was an opinon poll, there wasn't any research into trail erosion that I can find.

    https://www.jeffco.us/DocumentCenter...esults-?bidId=

    https://www.jeffco.us/DocumentCenter...ntation?bidId=



    The IMBA study is the only one that I would qualify as a study, done in a controlled environment in a measured way. The only issue I have with it is that it's woefully out of date considering the changes in ebike technology, and unfortunately doesn't reflect what the laws here allow.

    This is the only reference to the emtb used in the study: "engine output ranges approximately 100-200 times that of the potential output for this 350W Class 1 eMTB motor)." Page 17 of your link. Since there wasn't, and still aren't any 350w mid drive emtbs that I'm aware of, it could be a hub motor? Or they're stating the claimed max wattage for a 2015 Bosch CX motor? It's unclear. Regardless, emtb access would be much easier to come by if there were some actual studies done using 750w emtbs. Our land managers want to know what's coming, not what was on the trails 4 years ago. Which is why they have no interest in revisiting access until a few years down the road. My trail org looked into funding our own study with UCCS students, but it was going to cost too much in $ and time. You'd think the BPSA would take some marketing money and hand out some grants to universities?

  35. #35
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    Here's what I don't understand about this argument re: erosion.

    Let's say that 1 bike causes X amount of erosion. If that is true, 2 bikes cause 2*X erosion.

    Now, let's say that 1 bike and 1 e-bike are out on the trails. If the e-bike allows the rider to do twice the number of laps in the same amount of time as the version of that rider riding the regular mountain bike, how will that not cause twice as much erosion for that one rider?

    Alternately, wouldn't the opposite also be true, as well? If that e-bike rider is no longer able to ride an e-bike on the trails, and does half the number of laps they did before, aren't they causing half the erosion?

    Again, I am not arguing that riders on e-bikes cause any more or less erosion in a single lap than a normal mountain bike; I am arguing that if they do more laps, they must certainly cause more trail damage. Or, they magnify an individual's ability to damage trail tread in a given amount of time.
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    The only thing that gives me a red a$$ about an ebike....

    Every single one I have talked to wants to make it "easier". They want all the fun and excitement, they want to post up their awesomeness on their U-FACE account, but they don't want to have to put in the effort.

    I know I am small and petty, but it just frosts my cookies when I am putting in 10+ hrs a week and maintaining a level of fitness and two 20 something brohams, who are not even breathing hard can politely go right past me when I am at my limit. (That happened twice going up Mueller Park.)

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    Equestrians hate Everyone, Hikers hate Bikers, Mountain Bikers hate E bikers, E bikers hate exercise, Motos dont give a fvck.

    -happy trails

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by can't get right View Post

    Every single one I have talked to wants to make it "easier". They want all the fun and excitement, they want to post up their awesomeness on their U-FACE account, but they don't want to have to put in the effort.

    I know I am small and petty, but it just frosts my cookies when I am putting in 10+ hrs a week and maintaining a level of fitness and two 20 something brohams, who are not even breathing hard can politely go right past me when I am at my limit. (That happened twice going up Mueller Park.)
    Finally, a hater admits it, at least you are honest!

    Usually, this is the source of e-bike hate, but the person will typically deny that and make up all kinds of other idiotic reasons why they are against them.

    For me, I don't care if someone wants to make it easier, no skin of my back. I am only interested in what I do on my bike.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by KThaxton View Post
    Finally, a hater admits it, at least you are honest!

    Usually, this is the source of e-bike hate, but the person will typically deny that and make up all kinds of other idiotic reasons why they are against them.
    .
    I don't hate them... I look down upon them for their laziness and feel superior.

    It's a subtle but important distinction.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by can't get right View Post
    I don't hate them... I look down upon them for their laziness and feel superior.
    Therefore, you should be thrilled when you see them on the trail.....give your psyche a boost!

  41. #41
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    I'm just in awe of attitudes like the OPs. Basically if I can't ride legally, if I poach the trail will anyone turn me in and is the fine big enough to actually dissuade me?

    1. Don't be that asshole
    2. Yes, eventually you'll be caught
    3. It's a $600 fine from the BLM, per occurrence
    4. I don't give a shit what your opinion is if ebikes or how you feel you're being short changed. They're illegal. Don't like it? Get into advocacy and get it changed. I'll help fight that every step of the way.
    5. Welcome to Utah.

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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAM313 View Post
    Please don't come here and deliberately break the rules just because you want to. The single track trails would be great on a motorcycle too, but certain uses need to be separated. I ride here several times a week and have NEVER seen anyone riding an e-bike on a closed trail. As previously stated there are plenty of motorized trails for e-bikes if that's what you choose to ride.
    If I saw someone? I'd stop them and send them back to the parking lot to meet with the BLM ranger who is on my speed dial.
    Am I an A-Hole? Maybe, but I prefer to cycle in peace and appreciate the effort put into our trails by Trailmix and don't want to lose the working relationship we have with BLM that allows us to have the abundance of great trails we have.
    A little respect goes a long way.
    I go down there maybe twice a year, and saw one last time at Klondike. It happens. I don't have a cell phone to call in the SWAT team though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 29ger View Post
    I go down there maybe twice a year, and saw one last time at Klondike. It happens. I don't have a cell phone to call in the SWAT team though.
    ebikes are legal on the original Klondike Bluffs trail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    ebikes are legal on the original Klondike Bluffs trail.
    Same as any of the 4x4 trails.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KThaxton View Post
    Same as any of the 4x4 trails.
    Not true. You cannot legally ride an ebike of any kind, on any road, of any type, including pavement, in Arches or Canyonlands. You can't even legally ride to the Canyonlands or Arches visitor centers on an ebike.

    Yes, it is dumb as shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Not true. You cannot legally ride an ebike of any kind, on any road, of any type, including pavement, in Arches or Canyonlands. You can't even legally ride to the Canyonlands or Arches visitor centers on an ebike.

    Yes, it is dumb as shit.
    Wow, I didn't realize that. That's similar to street legal UTV's, they can be driven legally on almost all roads in Utah except interstates.....and National Parks. Jeeps and street legal motorcycles can go in National Parks, but not street legal UTV's.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by KThaxton View Post
    Wow, I didn't realize that. That's similar to street legal UTV's, they can be driven legally on almost all roads in Utah except interstates.....and National Parks. Jeeps and street legal motorcycles can go in National Parks, but not street legal UTV's.
    And thank God for that. The air quality in/around Moab PLUMMETS on weekends with high concentrations of ATVs/UTVs. I can't imagine traveling to Utah to enjoy a weekend in Arches and having dozens of jackasses riding around in their side-by-side, blaring shitty 80s rock, throwing up dust on a trail they just created.

    Because that's what happens pretty regularly at a bunch of the campgrounds outside of the parks.
    Death from Below.

  48. #48
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    Because that can't happen with Jeeps or motorcycles.....

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    People that hike sometimes vandalize petroglyph panels and other rock surfaces within national parks. Hiking in parks should be banned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KThaxton View Post
    Wow, I didn't realize that. That's similar to street legal UTV's, they can be driven legally on almost all roads in Utah except interstates.....and National Parks. Jeeps and street legal motorcycles can go in National Parks, but not street legal UTV's.
    I had a discussion with the chief ranger at Canyonlands about the ebike issue. They originally said the requirement to be able to pilot a vehicle on a National Park road was that the vehicle be street legal and able to go on interstates. When I pointed out to him that ebikes *are* street legal and legal on interstates in Utah, he changed his tune to street legal, able to go on interstates, and have a license plate. Of course, you couldn't get a license plate for an ebike even if you wanted to, so it is a classic governmental Catch-22. Meanwhile, ebikes are allowed on Fall River Road in Rocky Mountain National Park, which is basically the same status as White Rim, as it is a private National Park managed dirt road, open to street legal vehicles.

  51. #51
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    No ebikes on Arches/Canyonlands 4x4 roads is one of the craziest things I've learned lately.


  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMCDan View Post
    No ebikes on Arches/Canyonlands 4x4 roads is one of the craziest things I've learned lately.

    This makes sense though. I bet few mountain bikers go for these roads but with ebikes precluded from the majority of mountain bike trails out there there are bound to be some going up these roads and 4x4 and bikes definitely don't mix. With 4x4 folks either moving quickly on narrow paths or moving slowly through technical sections coming across a bike in either situation could lead to the bike mounted person losing.

    Back in AZ in a certain riding area we shared the trails with 4x4 and you had to ride a certain way. You would never bomb down certain sections because around any of the numerous corners there could be a 4x4 or a buggy or a group of motorcycles. Same we were always on high alert. Over time there was more and more trails built for motos and bikes and then you could at minimum not worry about being under someones desert racer and motos are a lot louder and more observant than the 4x4's. This was well timed as the incidences of desert racing type trucks was in the rise and they could travel on quite technical trails at very high rates of speed.

    Eventually the motos built their own trails and we would poach that a lot as it was directional and at least you didn't have to worry about being in a head on, but they could come up on you so fast, especially on climbs that it was still dangerous, and now in hindsight I realize how unfair it was that we used these trails, because for them they would have to always be on high alert to make sure they didn't kill some stupid bike rider in spandex.

    Cars and bikes do not mix on off road trails, so the NPS stance on no ebikes on roads kinda makes sense in this case.
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    Actually, it really doesn't make sense. Nobody is bombing the dirt roads in these two parks, they aren't conducive to desert racing type riding. MTB's and 4x4 get along just fine on these roads. Adding a few mph on the uphill sections won't change that .

    Also, I'm certain this wasn't a conscious decision on Park service's behalf, more like there was an existing loophole that they are taking advantage of to protect the park from an imaginary threat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post

    Cars and bikes do not mix on off road trails, so the NPS stance on no ebikes on roads kinda makes sense in this case.
    I guess you've never been to Moab? *All* of the original trails that caused Moab to become a mountain bike Mecca are (or were) motorized trails, 4x4, motorcycles, or both.

    - Slickrock (originally built as a motorcycle trail)
    - Porcupine Rim (originally a 4x4 trail that ended on the rim, dirt bikes blazed the single track to the river, now motorcycles can't ride the single track)
    - Poison Spider
    - Amasa Back
    - Klondike Bluffs
    - Gemini Bridges
    - Hurrah Pass/Chicken Corners/Jackson's Hole
    - Moab Rim
    - Flat Pass
    - Pritchett Canyon
    - Behind The Rocks

    Many of these have fallen out of favor with MTBs due to the new single track being built, but most are a blast on an ebike. For example, almost no one rides the traditional Poison Spider on an MTB any more because it is rocky and sandy, but on an ebike, it is awesome.

    Slickrock is one of the most fun ebike rides on earth, and it is much less crowded that it was 10-15 years ago.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    ebikes are legal on the original Klondike Bluffs trail.
    They were on the single track marked specifically that e-bikes were prohibited.

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