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  1. #1
    JMH
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    BOBSLED building

    Never mind... edited long, rambling post.

    JMH
    Last edited by JMH; 04-25-2007 at 12:10 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    Never mind... edited long, rambling post.

    Please don't build stunts or jumps in the main line on bobsled. There is plenty of room for alternate lines and go-arounds. Let's keep the main line clear so users of all skill levels can continue to enjoy the trail.

    JMH
    ????

    I just rode Bobsled and have been riding it at least 1-2 times a week for the last month. There are no stunts or jumps in the middle of the trail that are not roll-able, and if anything the folks doing the work on it have made it even smoother and easier on the main line. The only area that is questionable is the car jump where the recent rain has washed out the low line and makes it appear to drive the rider towards the jump, but there is an easy route around it still.

    Big thanks to those doing the work. Me likey.

    B
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro....

  3. #3
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    i think some people went up to clean up the area around the car jump, but i would agree, everything being built is on the side of the trail and they don't disrupt a persons flow if they don't want to hit them.

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    yep I have to agree as well. Bobsled is riding great! THanks to whoever is putting the time into it, and I agree all the stunts are very easy to ride around, I say add more jumps they are all so great.

  5. #5
    JMH
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    I rode it this AM and there is a goofy little cheese-wedge kicker in that middle open area where dude has been digging so much off to both sides. It looked new, it wasn't there 4 days ago.

    My only concern is for the Dockers crowd and newbs that have just as much fun on Bobsled as the rest of us. Forcing them to hit badly-designed booters isn't cool when it's easy to build on the side. It makes it more likely that someone will bust a jaw and someone will come in and remove all the building.

    The reason I edited my post is because I decided I just don't care. If it happens, it happens. I also like all the new stuff, and I have done my share in there already.

    Ride on.

    JMH

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    My only concern is for the Dockers crowd and newbs that have just as much fun on Bobsled as the rest of us. Forcing them to hit badly-designed booters isn't cool when it's easy to build on the side. It makes it more likely that someone will bust a jaw and someone will come in and remove all the building.

    The reason I edited my post is because I decided I just don't care. If it happens, it happens. I also like all the new stuff, and I have done my share in there already.

    Ride on.

    JMH
    I agree, but Bobsled is an advanced trail, so people should be at a certain level before deciding to drop down it. The litte cheese wedge you mentioned is not the greatest and should be moved or modified, but it is easilty avoided and the two new bermed turns before it are great, riders that can't roll that may want to think twice about riding Bobsled. I would hate to see someone get hurt and lose the privilege to ride that trail.

    [Rant on]
    And here's a tip for the Dockers crowd. Please turn down your I-pod when rolling at a leasurely pace down Bobsled. It's a narrow trail and difficult to pass in some/many spots, at least be polite enough to get out of the way when someone has been following you for several hundred yards while politely asking you to pull over or move to one side. I'm all for sharing the trails and I like to see people learn and advance their skills, but please be aware that there are other riders and be able to hear them. We had a guy on a neon yellow Cannondale with his seat to the moon creeping in front of us today and we could just not get his attention to get around him safely no matter what we tried. We finally just pulled over and waited to give him time to get down.
    [/Rant off]

    Happy trails,
    B
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro....

  7. #7
    Err
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    Oh but it is so fun to pass people on a trail like Bobsled, especially if you do it high on a wall ride ;-)

    What a cool trail though. New to town and have ridden it only once so far, hoping to get up there tomorrow night. There was a few inches of water flowing fast when I got to the car gap last time so had to go around. Love the looks of that feature though, looking forward to hitting it...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Err
    Oh but it is so fun to pass people on a trail like Bobsled, especially if you do it high on a wall ride ;-)

    What a cool trail though. New to town and have ridden it only once so far, hoping to get up there tomorrow night. There was a few inches of water flowing fast when I got to the car gap last time so had to go around. Love the looks of that feature though, looking forward to hitting it...
    This actaully happend to us 3 times with the same rider, we gave him 5 minutes at the top, caught him before the first little break point waited 5 minutes again, caught him again near the little jump over the skinny and the log on the right in the flat fast part before the new drops on the left and the one high speed drop. We didn't want to be jerks and have two riders pass him at nearly the same time and potentailly scare him to the point where he crashed. But we had made a lot of noise and rode very slowly behind him for a long ways before we gave up and waited for another 5 minutes. Not a big deal but when you have somewhere else you need to be the lack of common courtesy gets to you. He had his I-pod on loud enough we could almost figure out what he was listening to.

    Oh well, I'll ride it another day.

    B
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro....

  9. #9
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    Cheesewedge

    In response to the trailwork, specifically the two berms, I know who did all the work, I did help, the cheesewedge after the two new berms was an afterthought due to the fact that the "wedge" already existed there and was worn down. The extreme left of the wedge would cause you to shoulder tackle the tree or hit your head the far right of the wedge that was worn down and extremely rocky. The angle of the wedge was much greater prior to the reshaping. The right side of the wedge was built up and the angle of the incline was lessened. Unfortunately the fast line does not match up with the wedges reshaping. It shouldn't take much to change it. If I run into the person who did the work and let them know and hopefully that person can rectify it.

    Just an additional note there is a local woman with dogs who walks UP Bobsled.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by 925hell
    In response to the trailwork, specifically the two berms, I know who did all the work, I did help, the cheesewedge after the two new berms was an afterthought due to the fact that the "wedge" already existed there and was worn down. The extreme left of the wedge would cause you to shoulder tackle the tree or hit your head the far right of the wedge that was worn down and extremely rocky. The angle of the wedge was much greater prior to the reshaping. The right side of the wedge was built up and the angle of the incline was lessened. Unfortunately the fast line does not match up with the wedges reshaping. It shouldn't take much to change it. If I run into the person who did the work and let them know and hopefully that person can rectify it.

    Just an additional note there is a local woman with dogs who walks UP Bobsled.
    Cool, thanks for posting.

    You may also suggest that they make it a mound or table top rather than a wedge. This way those of us that want to jump it can and those that don't can roll it with little consequence.

    Also tell them thanks a ton and keep up the great work. If they drink beer I'm in for a 6er (out of state beer even) to say thanks.

    As for the lady that walks UP Bobsled, I've seen her, she is polite but I think she is trying to make a point, because when I talked to her she seemed well aware that this was a popular descent, but still chooses to walk up it. Not worth starting a turf war, just be nice and yield.

    B
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  11. #11
    JMH
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bortis Yelltzen
    He had his I-pod on loud enough we could almost figure out what he was listening to.
    Same thing on the Shoreline and Pipeline. Drives me nuts. Tried to pass a runner one time for five minutes.

  12. #12
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    I agree that this trail is a bit much for most riders, and that it would be better if they stayed off, however a little food for thought (not for argument, I like the building, too):

    - the BST is located in a city and advertised and signed by the city. This means that we are always going to have inexperienced riders on the BST and on the trails that attach to it. They read about the beautiful trail in the Trib and then drag Grandma up there on Saturday morning for a ride.

    - None of the building in Bobsled is city-sanctioned or insured. Nor are there warning signs or any other type of "filter" at the top of the trail. This means that when some guy eventually kills himself on Bobsled and his family sues the city for negligent trail maintenance, the city will have a good reason to knock the stuff down and either fence or grade the ravine. Local governments love to close the barn door after the cows have left.

    - technically, if someone does get hurt, and the lawyers can figure out who built the stunt (it wouldn't be too hard, just a few sneaky interviews of unsuspecting riders on the trail), that person would be PERSONALLY liable for any injuries on the stunt. (don't ask, don't tell if you build. and don't build when it is busy).

    - most inexperienced riders go straight down the bottom of the ravine. It doesn't even occur to them why there are tracks on all the walls, and they don't see anything that happens off to the sides of the trail. Heck, it never even occurs to them that the reason the car is full of rocks is for the ride-over, they probably just think big squirrels dragged those stones into the trunk for a nest. The good thing is, this means most of them also miss the fun upper entrance to the trail and only ride the lower part, but that doesn't keep them off the trail completely.

    - in the year I have been here, I have already seen two incidents where idiots hurt themselves on features in the middle of the trail. In particular, I came across a bloody-faced and very shocky guy who had pile-driven himself on the little booter at the bottom of the trail, just after the drops (he was looking for his teeth). This occured 1 day after the booter had been rebuilt into it's current format. Dude was NOT a good rider. But he thought he was.

    Cities do close trails because of people who can't ride (it is amazing how fast the "those darn kids" contingent will hop onto any opportunity to close a trail to riders, and how persuasive those well-off ladies-with-dogs can be, just ask Santa Barbara riders). Cities also bulldoze things that might be a risk to their coffers.

    Bobsled is an awesome trail we can all ride to in the city. If we make a small effort to keep trailbuilding building off the radar of people who can't ride, we have a much better chance of riding this trail next year. Riders here in Utah are pretty lucky. Compared to most western states, we have zero access problems. But population growth will change that eventually.

    That said, Bobsled is AWESOME right now. I love it, and thanks to the people who are working on it. I also owe you a beer.

    Cheers,
    C
    I only attempt to change the world in the appropriate World-Changing venues and forums.

  13. #13
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    The new berms are awesome, BTW. A much better route than the old one.

    The cheesewedge isn't too flow-y though.
    I only attempt to change the world in the appropriate World-Changing venues and forums.

  14. #14
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    you know, I have found that a loud bell will cut through a lot of ipod noise, better than voice, at least.
    I only attempt to change the world in the appropriate World-Changing venues and forums.

  15. #15
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    No good

    IPods=BAD when biking...

    Just my two cents...
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  16. #16
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    On To My Soabox...

    Quote Originally Posted by chuky
    Riders here in Utah are pretty lucky. Compared to most western states, we have zero access problems. But population growth will change that eventually.
    And it's been that way for a long time, despite there being no mtb advocacy groups.
    There used to be the UMB, but it was very short lived.
    Let's keep our trails Accessible!

    Stepping of soapbox....

    Brian



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  17. #17
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    spoke to the builder of the wedge, mods to follow

  18. #18
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    Mods

    The berms have been reshaped, to allow for a lower line into the "wedge" now to be known as "mound". This allows for a much better line to the mound avoiding the tree on the immediate left. The mound still allows for those who wish to catch air (I hate that phrase) to do so. With the lower line you can also pre-jump it and for those who do not want to catch air it can be rolled easily. Additionally there is a route around to the right and the deadfall was also moved. There is one sapling next to the route around but it is alive so it was not cut down. The landing area was cleared and all large rocks removed. The angle of the "wedge" was due to riders most likely panic braking on approach, creating a braking bump which was filled in to make the transition more smooth, this will most likely have to be done again later as it wears down. Since the deadfall was cleared the mound is clearly visible as you enter the second berm instead of having it just appear upon exit. The builder of the new section from now on to be referred to as X, as well as a few riders who stopped to help, these persons will be known as X1, X2, X3, X4, etc. observed riders (15+) of varying skill/ability negotating the two berms and mound. If a rider stopped the X's asked if they liked or disliked the modifications. No one found anything that they would like to change. All riders liked the new mound as well as the flow of the new berms. Thats all I know hopefully it helps. I sat in a lawn chair and watched, because I'm a voyeur.

  19. #19
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    Hello my friends,

    This is an anonymous message from the Bobsled Trail Fairy.

    In regards to the recent trail work on Bobsled, a few points-

    - Over the years the Bobsled trail traditionally has been 'maintained' by the people who use it most, mainly Mountain Bikers.
    - The Bobsled trail has experienced years of neglect in this regard, so much so that it was no longer worthy of the 'Bobsled' namesake.
    - Over time the path changed as the result of overgrowth, water erosion and shortcutting.
    - The recent trail work has been to restore the trail to its original condition, with modern improvements, to reduce and repair environmental damage from erosion, and to make the trail more fun and aesthetically pleasing.
    - It is not the work of one individual, but rather of different individuals working independently of one another, with the help of their friends. If they know of each other it is only recently.
    - There are no new berms; what has been worked on was already there and reflects the original trail path that was abandoned after years of neglect. I know because I have ridden the trail for over 20 years. This includes the 'cheese wedge'; it was not 'built', but it was there already, covered under about 15 years worth of brush.
    - In case you are wondering whether it is 'legal' or not, be assured that I have spoken to a city official about it and they did not have a problem, so don't get your panties all bunched up in a wad.
    - All of the trail work has received universal overwhelming support from bikers and hikers and environmentalists alike with one exception.
    - There is one woman with two dogs who likes to walk up the trail. Please be courteous to her. No doubt she hates mountain bikers. This was exasperated by a 'nameless' person bringing a chainsaw(at my objection) to do trail work . Do not ever bring a chainsaw to do trail work.
    - Pitch in. If you see a problem such as the damage from the water release last week, take initiative. If you think the Bobsled needs a warning sign or an entry obstacle why don't you make them up? There is always something to do.

    That is all. Enjoy!
    Last edited by RockyWanderer; 04-26-2007 at 10:20 PM.

  20. #20
    Err
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    Rode Bobsled tonight after a short session at the DJ's. Found no real problem with the cheese wedge, it's darn small and easily avoidable, just my 2 cents.

    RockyWanderer - mad props for your work and the work of others out there, super fun trail.

    Cheese Wedge are two very fun words to say together

    CHEEEESE Wedge!

  21. #21

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    Bobsled improvements

    I rode Bobsled earlier tonight, about an hour before sunset - don't know if the cheese wedge I rode was pre- or post-mod, but it was pretty smooth. The trail has improved a lot in the two weeks since I last rode it. I like...

    Just out of curiosity, is the lady with the dogs walking them on or off leash?

  22. #22
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    Off leash. Actually have only seen her once. But she doesn't clean up after her dogs and leaves their **** on the trail. I have had to shovel it off to the side more than once. I think she goes mostly on Saturdays during peak activity. However, I have heard of sightings early in the morning of the full moon. Strange. I have reason to believe that she might actually be a werewolf, and likes to feed off of human flesh. I have heard her howls at dusk. Very chilling. So if you see her and she is in a bad mood, you'll know why.

  23. #23
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    Watch out for the Werewolf woman

    Huge thanks to those putting in work up there. I am going to finally get off my ass and start chipping in, due in no small part to seeing the results of the labors on bobsled. Holy S#!t, it is so fun right now. I love the addition of the overgrown berms and the cheese wedge.

    Rocky Wanderer- Thanks for all the info regarding the history of the trail, and it's status with the city. I have always been nervous about getting to the top of it, and finding a chain, and a closed sign. I admit, I have been VERY nervous since the improvements have been occurring. Good to know that we are not walking on egg shells up there.

    Thanks again to all who have been busting their butts up there, great work.

  24. #24
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    If they're unleashed, it's her problem if one gets mown down...

    Improvements are looking good. I didn't have a problem with le wedge as long as it was visible when you came around the corner (which it wasn't when I rode a couple days ago). I just moto'd over it with my DH bike, but some poor bastard on a 3-inch hardtail might not've been so lucky. However, sounds like that's been fixed, so no worry.


    Myself and JMH spent some time last spring trying to fix one set of berms after the big runoff and erosion had nearly obliterated them. We used 6-inch PVC piping underneath to divert water...do you guys know if they're still there? If they've worked to their desired effect, perhaps we should consider putting more piping in for the big snowmelt years. However, it is entirely possible they're packed with mud and worthless. I haven't stopped to check...
    It's just frustrating sometimes being an Athena...

  25. #25
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    Bleu,

    I was thinking about PVC myself since checking out the erosion from the recent water tank release. Another option is Northshore ladders over the obvious runoff paths. That's how we do things from the NW, but I'm not sure if they would stay anchored in the UT dust. A last option is rock, covered in gravel, covered in dirt (i.e. French drain), but is alot of work and may clog up also. I dunno, but if nobody has a problem with it, I'm gonna keep filling in the erosion ruts with plain old dirt.

    We could be like Vancouver and have a 'trail day'. Maybe WAFTA could organize?

    -D

  26. #26

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    Smile Pics for ex Utard ?....

    Hey all,
    Stumbled onto your post regards the Bob. I lived in SLC a few years and rode all them trails back there, from the relay towers to the Animal Torture Fun Haus ( ZOO). I remember the berms and the car. Man for the life of me I cannot recall the car being part of the ride.

    Could you post pics as I would really long to see the pics of that trail as my memory sucks!

    Thanks CS

  27. #27
    Zak
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    I'd just like to say THANK YOU to whoever is doing the digging up there. Bobsled is in the best shape I've ever seen it thanks to you guys. I'm up for a trail work day if someone wants to put it together - there's still some spots that could use some work.

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    I logged on expecting to find this thread, and there it was!

    Anyway, first off - thanks to the people doing all the hard work - Bobsled is riding great, and as an aggressive rider, the changes stoke me out to no end.

    I rode it on Saturday and I do want to say that I am worried about the trail building/bigger hit crowd getting shut down due to backlash from the woman with the dogs, the XC guys with their 3-foot seatposts in the air, etc.

    It seemed like a TON of scrub oak had been removed since the previous week I rode it - if that was just deadfall, then no worries. But if people are cutting down live trees, that's not going to help our cause. And honestly the cheese wedge has me worried; it's right in the middle of the trail and it is going to cause some carnage, guaranteed. Sure it's hardly a bump in the road for a competent rider but we have to take all trail users into account.

    It's great to have spur trails, like the drops at the bottom - I love those things, especially the bigger one to rider's left. That is where the effort should be directed in my opinion, for the freeridey movement. I just don't want to see us get shut down.

    All I ask is that the trail builders take the time to think about what Joe Homer is gonna do when he encounters some new thing around a berm he wasn't expecting. And next time I'm up there I'll bring a shovel and a 6'er

  29. #29
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    Summit,

    I suggest that you re-read my previous posts, if you haven't already. BTW most all of the scrub was dead or diseased.
    As far as the cheese wedge goes, from what I have observed, most 'beginner' riders are not going fast enough for the scenario you have described to be a problem. I suggest you sit by it one afternoon and observe.
    Actually, from the feedback I have received, it is the "Joe Homer" on the rusty old hard tail who likes the cheese wedge the most, mostly because it is so small that it is fairly easy to negotiate, even for a beginner. It really is tiny. I really do think that they would be the most disappointed if that were removed.
    But, honestly, if you don't like it, I suggest you get to work and remove it; but be forewarned, you will need bulldozer to remove the huge rock that is underneath it, and I don't think that would please many people. As I said before, it was there already, was part of the original historical trail, and is basically immovable, so consider it a natural feature.

    Enjoy!
    Last edited by RockyWanderer; 04-30-2007 at 10:24 PM.

  30. #30
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    Rocky- I don't mind the cheese wedge at all. I liked it when it was just a clump of rock, now it's just a more defined jump. I did read your previous posts and I think everything was put very well and frankly made me feel a whole lot better about the whole thing.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm uber stoked with what you've done up there. Have you seen the Collective? There's a follow-cam segment on a trail in B.C. that really reminds me of bobsled with some big doubles & tables interspersed, and I always thought our little home trail would be perfect for some similar freeridification

    Good to hear the scrub clearing was mostly dead stuff, I just know that things like clearing scrub can lead to changes in the way water drains and just piss people (environmentalists) off.

  31. #31
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    What I like about this thread is that it has been constructive so far. Comments were made, changes were generally praised, and some things were modified.

    Summit has a good point, and I agree with him for a few reasons.

    - The history of the trail isn't important. The people that will make trouble for the riding community aren't thinking about what the trail looked like years ago, they are thinking about what it looked like last week as compared to today.

    - If we are noticing large amounts of scrub moving around, so are other user groups. These other groups have no idea if this scrub is/was alive when it was moved. One of the keys to good trailbuilding is to disguise change, particularly with reroutes, etc. Blocking old trails is important, but this can be accomplished via breaking up the old trail, transplanting flora from the new trail, and using "vertical deadfall" (an IMBA term) to break up the old sightline. Scrub piles and debris work, but you might as well make a sign that says "unofficial building occured here".

    - Once other users see change, they will be on the lookout for more change.

    - It is unsophisticated to think that there isn't a user group out there that finds this change appalling. Someone out there has a very good reason why building should shut down, it is just a matter of time before they get aggressive. The low population and the general mellow quality of Utah has helped prevent a lot of conflicts, but rising numbers of users will eventually bring West-coast style conflicts to this neighborhood.

    - Maintaining a trail that is friendly to all users (one where high-difficulty stunts co-exist with an "easy" way down) will make sure that a large number of riders from a wide range of types use and love this trail. This is GOOD. The more people love Bobsled, the more people will stand up for it when the time comes.


    Anyway, I think that we should keep building, but just consider the other 181,742 people that live here and how they would perceive the changes we make. We don't want to give them reason to start an impact study - we might not like the results.
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  32. #32
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    I have been riding the trail a few days a week for the past month or so and love the new changes. I also agree that they are all very user friendly, especially the cheese wedge. As someone mentioned it is easily avoidable by going low and anyone who cant handle that jump wont be going fast enough to hit it anyway. Anyway great work on the trail, I love the new section before the cheesewedge hopefully more stuff like that or jumps are to come..

  33. #33
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    Chuky,
    I've had hiker/environmentalist folk stop by and say hi while doing trail work. Of course they were curious with what was going on, and after explaining everything to them, about the restoration and erosion prevention etc., they pretty much agreed that the changes were badly needed and that they thought the new(old) trail was much more aesthetic and and visually interesting to walk as it now adds two new meanders through the forest instead of what was, before, basically a ditch. They thanked us, just like everyone else, and went on their way.
    As I said before, I talked to a city official and they even went up saw some of the work, and like I said, they did not have a problem. I was really close to handing them a shovel and putting them to work, but as the work is not 'officially' sanctioned by the city, I thought twice about it. But they basically smiled, thanked us, and gave us a big old pat on the back for work badly needed.
    Over the weeks and months I have seen 1 hiker for every 100 mountain bikers. The trail is overwhelming popular with mountain bikers, and it is now more popular than ever. There is just no way conceivable, I can think of, that it will ever be closed to mountain biking. It is just too popular and there would be no political will to do it. But even if somehow it was closed down to mountain bikers, it would be totally un-enforcable, unless they closed down the entire BST which is just not a possibility IMO.
    Of course there are some people who don't like change for the sake that it is change. But they are ignorant and in the minority, and I refuse to give them any power by fearing them. They use fear as their weapon, but in the end that is the only power they have. When you fear evil it prevents you from doing good. So don't give evil people power by fearing them.
    The trail work is overwhelmingly popular, to an extent that you cannot even imagine. I am proud of the work that has been done and I urge everyone who uses the trail to participate, whether it is fixing a berm or building a kicker or picking up some garbage or pruning a tree so that it will grow strong. It is a special place we have. Lets take care of it, and make it the best trail in the world.
    Last edited by RockyWanderer; 05-01-2007 at 03:22 AM.

  34. #34
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    BTW has anyone hit the car table yet? I'm always a bit low on speed coming into it, and I hate guinea-pigging stuff without having seen it done...but it looks fun!

  35. #35
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    yeah I had alot of time and beer on my hands

    This one's for summit and CSsprings, the riders face has been obscured to protect his identity, but thats the only touching up that I did I swear. JK
    Attached Images Attached Images

  36. #36
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    Nice! Looks like a low trajectory eh?

  37. #37
    Err
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit
    Nice! Looks like a low trajectory eh?
    I hit it last night for the first time. It didn't push me high at all, just long and I actually almost over shot it having taken a couple pedal strokes out of the preceeding corner. I'd guess the most important part is that the landing isn't very wide so you have to stay on line to hit the landing. Overall I'd rate it a reasonably forgiving jump with nice flow.

  38. #38
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    Major credit to RW and the other guys doing work up there. I'm actually get excited to ride Dry Creek now.

    I didn't even know the Werewolf Lady existed until i heard people gearing up at the top of BobSled last night mentioning her. Sure enough, I ran into her (not literally) on the way down. I'll be the first person to say that anybody has the right to hike/ride/etc any open trail, including BobSled, but walking up the gut of that trail with un-leashed dogs in tow is just irresponsible.

  39. #39

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    Shell95 OCTANE....

    Quote Originally Posted by 925hell
    This one's for summit and CSsprings, the riders face has been obscured to protect his identity, but thats the only touching up that I did I swear. JK
    Thanks for the snap, send more wider angles so I can put it in perspective ( and drool ..Please..Please...Please...) Hey is that an 06 Enduro ??

    Keep em coming

  40. #40

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    Ps...

    Are them Weirwolf 2.5's rolling you along so fast your spine erupts in spontaneous combustion?

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    I like the changes. I've ridden this trail recently on a freeride rig, a 29er singlespeed, and a full on xc race bike, it's great on all of them. Plenty of options exist for all abilities. Hats off to those that are doing the work, I do not fear the evil doers.

    I posted some pics of me on the trail in the Iron Horse forum in the 7point pic thread. If someone is more computer savvy than me they can move them here so people can get a look at some of what's been going on.

  42. #42
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    Here's a few pics for ya csprings...










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    Bobsled is very different from all the other trails is the area. This causes it to be generally misunderstood, I think. When your average XC rider such as myself decides to foolishly have a try we are not equipped with the right equipment or the right skills to do it safely. I learned my lesson the hard way a few years back and now I try to warn others. I wonder how to go about educating people.

    Is there some reason why signs could not be posted as part of the building process? Does this open up the city to liability in some way? I think this may be one of the only ways to delay the inevitable. Some naive soul is going to try to do it at night or something and break their neck.

    I don't think that the guy on the bottom looking for his teeth described in this thread has to be seen as an idiot that can't ride. He just didn't realize what he was in for. If a freerider on a 45 pound bike tries naively to climb rattlesnake gultch, he or she can simply give up and turn around. The trouble with bobsled is that it is terribly unforgiving and often underestimated. Once you start, there is no turning back. IMHO, closure is a real threat unless people are somehow warned that it is a vey dangerous and very downhill specific trail.

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    TJ, people have been riding the bobsled way before the "freeride" movement, way before duel suspension mt. bikes, ect. I ride it often on a ridgid single speed. All the huck stuff is off to the side and can easily avoided, most of the people riding probably don't even know that much of it is there. The bobsled shouldn't be looked at as a trail only for DHers, it's fun for all. Anyone should know that it is an advanced trail from the start, it's steep loose, and there is a jump in the first ten feet. If this dosen't tell a person with less skills that it is an advanced trail I doubt a sign will help, you can see for yourself that it is difficult from the shoreline. We shouldn't make all trails for the least skilled rider. This is what happened to the mid-mountain trial in Park City, there were a few really fun rock gardens, instead of either walking twenty feet, or better yet raising the level of their ridding, people *****ed and it was filled in and is now smooth. A ski area doesn't make every run a green circle, why should we make every trail super easy here in Utah?

    Every tech part of the bobsled can be see well before you hit it, you can tell before you are commited to the trail that it is advanced. Mt. biking, like all activities in the MOUNTAINS is dangerous you can get hurt. We shouldn't sugar coat our trails and dumb them down for people who don't have the skill set yet.

  45. #45
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    Yeah...I rode the 'sled for years on my XC bike before getting a DH bike...

    Btw, you guys still riding the "old" entry point do know that there's a "new" place to jump in? It's not as steep, or as loose, or as straight-down-the-damned-hill like the old one. In fact, it's all bermy like the rest of the trail. Keep going a bit farther on the Shoreline to the north...it's just around the first bend in the second.
    It's just frustrating sometimes being an Athena...

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    Hey, I've been riding it for years, this is the best it's ever been. Thanks for all your work.
    And anyone would have to be insane to walk up the Sled, whether they have the legal right to or not.

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    niCe

    [QUOTE=Summit]Here's a few pics for ya csprings.
    Summit,
    Tanks for dem pics. Now I seem to recall several of the little canyons and singlerack from the Animal Torture Fun Haus all the way to the relay towers overlooking the train yard.One.behingd the U....first half of the canyone is narrow singletrack following an old creekbed from west to east. Then midway a sharp dark soil switchback as it starts to climb out. Many don't make the little switchback , but some of us could make it as it is sharp, is steep, and gets really loose really early. As you climb out on the left is the canyon you just rode in and once you peak out a great view of the infestation of people/city/ and pollution.

    Man I wished I took pics of the rides when I lived there and all the dogs we encountered, some of which got a nice boot in the face when they got a 'bit too excited'. Man all the idiots taking their muts out to sHeitE and to chase MTB'rs.

    CS

  48. #48
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    I Agree with those who offer praise for this. The work on the trail has made it the best I've seen it in the 20 years I've been riding there. Anyone who has trouble with the cheeze wedge would probably have trouble riding off a curb because I don't recall that it was that much larger. Sure I'll hit the jumps and drops but I frequently ride with my wife who will usually ride around the big stuff. Ironically though she's only been riding a year and can probably ride down stuff a lot of folks won't. I find that a few people who should probably be riding on the jordon river parkway as opposed to the mountains ruin the real roots of Mt. Biking for those of us who like a technical challenge. Are we progressing or are we moving backward? There are hundreds of Mt bike trails in this valley that are flat and easy with no berms or stunts - let's not ruin the ones that are designed for those of us looking for more fun. I agree with the fellow that made the comment on the PC mid mountain loop. Many trails have become like that over the years - The crest used to have fun technical sections and tall log bars that we used to ride with hardtails and somehow we all came to love that challenge which made us better riders - then it was all smoothed out by weenies complaining that they had to actually ride over a rock that rose more than a few inches above the dirt. No amount of complaining by the riders who actually know what mountain biking really amounts to changed the fact that our original technical trails were now boringly smooth stuff that anyone could ride on a tri-cycle. No one tore out the smooth sections and restored them to rock gardens. And what do we do when these trails are all paved and there's a sidewalk that lies now where your favorite trail used to be?? If you ask me - there's enough pavement in the world as it is and I say those that complain of taking Mt. biking back to it's roots should just stop whining and ride where it's already paved before the rest of us who actually enjoy dirt go and lobby to have the pavement all removed just because you get worse road rash when you fall on it. .

  49. #49
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    Classic!!!

  50. #50
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    I feel like an idiot, but can somebody explain to me what this "cheese wedge" is? I've ridden Bobsled a handful of times lately and still can't figure it out.

  51. #51
    Err
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    It's a gigantic jump, takes you several cm in the air, can't miss it. :-)

    It's right after a big berm/wall ride on the left (turning towards the right) leading into another on your right. Shortly before you come to the clearing/intersection that's about half way down the trail IIRC.


    The Wifey does not jump at all. She takes the venerable wedge at full speed, says she hardly notices it. So don't be concerned if it hasn't hit your radar yet.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Err
    It's a gigantic jump, takes you several cm in the air, can't miss it. :-)

    It's right after a big berm/wall ride on the left (turning towards the right) leading into another on your right. Shortly before you come to the clearing/intersection that's about half way down the trail IIRC.


    The Wifey does not jump at all. She takes the venerable wedge at full speed, says she hardly notices it. So don't be concerned if it hasn't hit your radar yet.
    I still have no clue. I'll just keep riding it.

    While we're handwaving about new features, I absolutely friggin love the right-turn berm that now goes across the top of the boulder. That's sweet.

  53. #53
    JMH
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    It's more like a speed bump!

    JMH

    Quote Originally Posted by Err
    It's a gigantic jump, takes you several cm in the air, can't miss it. :-)

    It's right after a big berm/wall ride on the left (turning towards the right) leading into another on your right. Shortly before you come to the clearing/intersection that's about half way down the trail IIRC.


    The Wifey does not jump at all. She takes the venerable wedge at full speed, says she hardly notices it. So don't be concerned if it hasn't hit your radar yet.

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