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  1. #1
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    Why the Large XL frames

    WTF
    The Sultan is the only bike in the lineup that sports a true XL size. What gives? The DW swap took the bikes that were already on the short end for XL size and chopped them shorter. I know the DW bikes are magic and all, but are they really going to make me forget that I need an extra inch of TT? Or is DT just looking to bring back 120mm stems

    Seriously, sasquatch guys lost 1.4in of TT length. Guess it is company mandated 29ers for tall and lanky folks
    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    that's the stupidest idea this side of pinkbike.

  2. #2
    MK_
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    You and I are in the minority of the customers who want longer TTs. DT being a business man complies with volumes of requests and ours is smaller than the guys who want shorter TTs.

    _MK

    Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not just surrounded by a*holes

  3. #3
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    werd

    I hear ya

    It is not just Turner. Same with Titus and Pivot. XL Pivot 4 is 24.5 TT while the 429 is 25.5. I dont really get it but XXL is too big and XL not long enough. I am 6.5 and ride an 08 XL Spot with 100mm stem, SPider 29er with 25.5 with 80mm stem and Ventana El Com with 24.6 TT with 120mm (Jones bar setup).
    90 mm stem is perfect for me.
    JD

  4. #4
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    tell em their dreaming

    give me a tt of 25", 80mm stem, 22inch seat tube, 6 inch travel sub 30lb bike, inline post for under 3 grand and comes with a nanny for the kids and l would be rather pleased.

  5. #5
    MK_
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnd663
    It is not just Turner.
    I know, but, Turner used to push it. That's one of the features that got me on the Turner bandwagon. DT personally, at least when I rode with him in Moab last year, still believes in the long TTs, but he succumbs to what customers want. Majority of the people that can afford a Turner are of older generation that got into the sport riding 150mm stems. There's also a chunk that comes form DH/DJ/BMX background and they love short bikes for the descents.

    On a side note, Yeti Seven appears to have great geo numbers, I'm just skeptical of the slack seat tube. Transition also pushes long TTs. I'm sure other brands will fill the niche as well. It's just too bad that you can't have Turner's durability and the good geometry all in one package, at least at the moment, unless you ride "vintage" frames like the 05s and 06s.

    _MK

    Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not just surrounded by a*holes

  6. #6
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    I have noticed that too. The current XL Spot has probably the shortest top tube I've seen in an XL. 25 seems a little long probably, but 24.2 seems really short to me for an XL.

  7. #7
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    +1 here

    The new 'large' Spot has a 23.6TT and is supposed to suit a 6ft rider.
    I don't want to have to go to a Large because the 21" ST is too tall to lower the saddle sufficiently.

    I *really* hope the RXF doesn't continue with this rediculous geometry theme.

    Long TT, short ST, that's where it's at !!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK_
    You and I are in the minority of the customers who want longer TTs. DT being a business man complies with volumes of requests and ours is smaller than the guys who want shorter TTs.

    _MK
    Sounds like Dave needs to check his research. Height is correlated with income and, last I checked, Dave's frames are expensive!


    http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/j...04030/abstract"White males in the highest income category were significantly taller, heavier, more adipose, had higher levels of education, and were more often married than were their lowest income white counterparts. "


    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...-23289,00.html

    It looks to me like the smart money is in strong bikes with LONGER TOP TUBES


    I'm 6'4" and got an '08 XXL RFX a few months ago. There aren't many choices for tall riders - especially in the longer travel 26er bikes. Hopefully DT can keep tall guys in the business model.

  9. #9
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    you guys have it somewhat wrong. the industry trend toward shorter TTs in a given size has been driven by the recognition that a SHORT stem combined with a SHORTISH TT and a VERY WIDE bar gives a good body position for technical uphills and downhills.

    so it has nothing to do with guys in purple lycra who want to run a 120 mm stem. quite the opposite. it has more to do w/ baggy camo shorts and skater lids.

    this is a broad industry trend that, in general, has led to better-handling bikes.

    hell I'm 6'3" and my recent bike purchase (Nomad) has a 23.8 ETT. turns out to be effin perfect for an AM bike. Years ago I thought 25.0 was 'right' for me.

    if you're tall, you should consider running 710 - 740 mm bars on your trailbike. My XC and trailbikes are running 710 mm bars, and i ride in some tight-tree terrain.
    Originally posted by bucksaw87
    I still fail to see how mustaches, fixies, and PBR are ironic.

  10. #10
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    Not wrong, probably just built different. I am also 6'3", but have a 32in inseam. That definitely lends to a long a low bike to match my long torso and arms.

    I get the arguments, but the new generation of bikes out of Turner have gone from too short but tolerable to too short to invest in. A 740mm bar, 60-70mm stem, and a full length steerer aren't the right fix to a frame that is too small LeeLikesBikes site has some good discussion on long and low versus short and tall bar/stem setup.

    Also a 740mm bar is no good if you ride in heavily wooded areas. I have a 740mm on my hardtail and constantly bash knuckles and can't ride through small openings. My 685mm are a bit narrow for me, but don't suffer any of the afforementioned problems.

    FWIW my 07 Sultan XL was setup with a 90mm stem and 710mm bars. It fit very well with a 25.2in top tube. The new Sultans look good. But the 5 spot and flux are midget bikes by comparison unless you decide to stick a 23in seat tube up yer arse
    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    that's the stupidest idea this side of pinkbike.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by AL29er
    Not wrong, probably just built different. I am also 6'3", but have a 32in inseam. That definitely lends to a long a low bike to match my long torso and arms.

    I get the arguments, but the new generation of bikes out of Turner have gone from too short but tolerable to too short to invest in. A 740mm bar, 60-70mm stem, and a full length steerer aren't the right fix to a frame that is too small LeeLikesBikes site has some good discussion on long and low versus short and tall bar/stem setup.

    Also a 740mm bar is no good if you ride in heavily wooded areas. I have a 740mm on my hardtail and constantly bash knuckles and can't ride through small openings. My 685mm are a bit narrow for me, but don't suffer any of the afforementioned problems.

    FWIW my 07 Sultan XL was setup with a 90mm stem and 710mm bars. It fit very well with a 25.2in top tube. The new Sultans look good. But the 5 spot and flux are midget bikes by comparison unless you decide to stick a 23in seat tube up yer arse
    I have a 33 inch inseam, so yes, longer legs than you. btw the wide bar recommendation was from a performance perspective i.e. it works better in tech terrain, and has therefore indirectly driven the trend toward shorter ETTs. So in no way do I see it as a bandaid on a short ETT bike. But all this is moot, since you are obviously someone who got the memo long ago on looking at wider bars. Unfortunately not everyone got that memo, which is why I brought it up just in case.

    Any time wide bars comes up, people protest that they ride in tightly forested terrain. Sounds like you and I have come to similar conclusions there -- I like 710 mm bars on my general purpose bikes, but if I go wider than that it just gets too close on some of my trails. However, my FR/DH bike sees more open terrrain (mammoth, northstar) so I can go wider.

    In your post you brought up another issue -- exposed seat tube length, and short head tubes. That's another topic altogether from the ETT topic we've been kicking around. I agree, I hate having massively long seatposts. On the headtube thing -- well, i've come to like my bars lower and lower despite getting older and stiffer, so for the most part I'm happy w/ the HT length on Turners and other recent bikes. definitely one of those YMMV things. I sometimes think it's the short ETTs that are letting me run my bars so low these days. When i get on a loooong bike, very low bars make my back hurt.
    Originally posted by bucksaw87
    I still fail to see how mustaches, fixies, and PBR are ironic.

  12. #12
    MK_
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    I get the whole wide bar thing. I run a 710mm bar myself and cope with the trees. I'm on a 70mm stem and a 24.3in top tube. I could deal with a shorter top tube if the seat tube angle was steeper.

    In my understanding, Turner's motivation for shorter TTs is the effective wheelbase, at least with bikes like the new RFX and Spot.

    I spend long hours pedaling uphill here in Colorado and I *need* a long TT to be comfortable if I want to run a short stem. I also like the inside the bike feel on the descents.

    I'm 6'1", btw, with 36in inseam.

    _MK

    Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not just surrounded by a*holes

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