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  1. #1
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    While waiting for the Pack to arrive,

    I need a light duty FR bike, I have grand visions of me riding my white 6 Pack built with a Fox 36 fork beating all of my freinds up and down the trails even though they are all younger, stronger and faster riders than I, plus they all ride bikes with more travel, bench racing at its finest! But until then I need something to ride. I do have my 575, but I want something else more like the 6 Pack, though it will be temporary, a bike with 6 or so inches of travel, able to take a 6" fork probably a Z1 FR becuase the Fox wont be around for a while, and some tougher trailbike parts.
    A couple of the frames I have been thinking about is the Azonic Saber and the Titus Supermoto. I would like to stick to the FSR link bikes so the ride simularities will remain the same as the Turner, plus all the parts I use I will be able to transferr to the 6 Pack as well, wheels, drive train and cockpit.


    So what do you guy's think?

  2. #2
    FM
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    Why not just buy a turner RFX now? There's a few available used, It's nearly identical to the 6-pack, and you will save yourself a lot of money (some of which you could spend on a custom paint job).

    Put a Z150 on there, or the already available 2005 150mm Z1, it's perfection.


    Quote Originally Posted by ride red
    I need a light duty FR bike, I have grand visions of me riding my white 6 Pack built with a Fox 36 fork beating all of my freinds up and down the trails even though they are all younger, stronger and faster riders than I, plus they all ride bikes with more travel, bench racing at its finest! But until then I need something to ride. I do have my 575, but I want something else more like the 6 Pack, though it will be temporary, a bike with 6 or so inches of travel, able to take a 6" fork probably a Z1 FR becuase the Fox wont be around for a while, and some tougher trailbike parts.
    A couple of the frames I have been thinking about is the Azonic Saber and the Titus Supermoto. I would like to stick to the FSR link bikes so the ride simularities will remain the same as the Turner, plus all the parts I use I will be able to transferr to the 6 Pack as well, wheels, drive train and cockpit.


    So what do you guy's think?

  3. #3
    Bodhisattva
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    I think you have a wicked case of newbikeitis. i thought I had it bad....sheeeesh.

    Seems to me, Red, that if the pack is the bike for you then just wait it out. You'll spend a lot of money on a "bridge" bike and that 575 ain't exactly a Huffy.

    Be patient....
    interesting tidbit. I met Darren from PUSH yesterday while he was here visiting CO. He advised me to seriously consdier an RP3 for my Pack & having it PUSH'd. Said he could pretty much replicate the DHX feel and a pound & half weight savings. He has a Moment built to under 28# which is impressive when one considers that the frame is almost the same weight as the Pack.

  4. #4
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    6 pack vs x-5

    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    I think you have a wicked case of newbikeitis. i thought I had it bad....sheeeesh.

    Seems to me, Red, that if the pack is the bike for you then just wait it out. You'll spend a lot of money on a "bridge" bike and that 575 ain't exactly a Huffy.

    Be patient....
    interesting tidbit. I met Darren from PUSH yesterday while he was here visiting CO. He advised me to seriously consdier an RP3 for my Pack & having it PUSH'd. Said he could pretty much replicate the DHX feel and a pound & half weight savings. He has a Moment built to under 28# which is impressive when one considers that the frame is almost the same weight as the Pack.
    Do you know how much a 6 pack with a rp3 vs the x-5 with a rp3 will weigh in a med?

  5. #5
    Bodhisattva
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    6-Pack is listed at 8.8 lbs in the Turner catalog with the DHX.
    Per the '05 Fox catalog, the DHX is listed at 0.88 lbs which is a bogus number because it doesn't include the spring. RP3 is listed at 0.43 lbs. So what does the spring weigh? I estimate a standard non-Ti spring weighs a pound.
    So, by these numbers the 6-Pack with an RP3 will be just over 7 lbs.

    I don't know the X-5 numbers off the top of my head, but it'd estimate it to be 1/2-3/4 lb lighter with an RP3.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by redranger
    Do you know how much a 6 pack with a rp3 vs the x-5 with a rp3 will weigh in a med?
    Two bikes really arent comparable, the 6-pack is a freeride bike with a chainguide mount, slacker geometry and dual crown compatible. The X5 is more of a trailbike. If you want/need a 6-pack then weight should not be a primary concern, although you could build it slightly light and still durable.
    I plan to go Fox 36 and Crossmax XL, with a back up heavy duty wheelset for the gravity runs, but I am pretty light a 150 with gear. That way you could wind the front down an inch for the singletrack and wind it up for the downhills. Also a bike I could take dirt jumping and shuttle run with a 7" dual crown up front, perfect!

  7. #7
    FM
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    I was seriously blown away by the quality of travel on my friends 575 w/ rp3, so much so that I haven't been happy with my romic since.

    I'll be looking for an RP3 this spring, for my RFX.....

    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    I think you have a wicked case of newbikeitis. i thought I had it bad....sheeeesh.

    Seems to me, Red, that if the pack is the bike for you then just wait it out. You'll spend a lot of money on a "bridge" bike and that 575 ain't exactly a Huffy.

    Be patient....
    interesting tidbit. I met Darren from PUSH yesterday while he was here visiting CO. He advised me to seriously consdier an RP3 for my Pack & having it PUSH'd. Said he could pretty much replicate the DHX feel and a pound & half weight savings. He has a Moment built to under 28# which is impressive when one considers that the frame is almost the same weight as the Pack.

  8. #8
    Bodhisattva
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    I agree in essence, but the thought of a sub 31# 6-Pack with an PUSH'd RP3 & PUSH'd Fox 36 is very tempting and would, by no means, not be suitable for agressive riding.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel

    Be patient....
    interesting tidbit. I met Darren from PUSH yesterday while he was here visiting CO. He advised me to seriously consdier an RP3 for my Pack & having it PUSH'd. Said he could pretty much replicate the DHX feel and a pound & half weight savings. He has a Moment built to under 28# which is impressive when one considers that the frame is almost the same weight as the Pack.
    Amazing how far air shocks and shocks in general have come the past few years, but an air shock on a FR bike? That's hard to beleive it could perform as well as a high quality coil on a big hit bike, don't think I would go with an air only for that bike, but having one as a backup for trail riding or big climbing days would be cool.

  10. #10
    Bodhisattva
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    That's what I'm thinking too.
    Get the stock DHX & get an aftermarket RP3 and have it PUSH'd

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    a sub 31# 6-Pack with an PUSH'd RP3 & PUSH'd Fox 36
    so, how much would that cost altogether?
    obviously I can't afford it since I need to ask....

  12. #12
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    Damned if I know, but I'll find out as things get closer.

  13. #13
    FM
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    Plan B could be:

    Buy a lightly used RFX now, there's still time for a week-long sunny honeymoon in Az. or utah with your new baby, using the money you saved!

    I hate to sound negative but hear me out, just for kicks....

    Word is early spring for the Fox36 to be available OE. That means it's going to be late spring/early summer before it's available to guys like us, and full retail at that. Roughly the same weight&travel as the 2005 150mm Z1 (available now), air sprung instead of coil,and a few hundred bucks more. I still remember my friend who waited for an early talus, paid full retail, only to have to send it back 3 times in one summer.

    As for RFX vs. 6-pack, there's ~1lb weight difference, shock, and slight geometry differences. From what Jorgen posted, I think I like the RFX geometry slightly better, at least for my use. Anyways the differences are pretty subtle, but 6-packs will be about $600 more than mint RFX frames are going for.

    So you're looking at about $1000 difference and 2-6 months extra for the 6-pack.
    Ride now, or wait and spend.... whats the saying, "a bush in the woods is worth three in hand"?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    I agree in essence, but the thought of a sub 31# 6-Pack with an PUSH'd RP3 & PUSH'd Fox 36 is very tempting and would, by no means, not be suitable for agressive riding.
    Hey my freind, you might be wrong on that statement, air shocks and forks today are pretty amazing, I heard someone (cant remember who) say that he will be using a Fox 36 for hardcore freeriding this year. You might start seeing air more often in the future. The problem I had with air in the past was it just wasnt plush at all, man, not any more.
    I think your on to something, Ive been thinking along the same lines, RP3 and a Fox 36, and after hearing what you said about the "Pushed" RP3 just makes it more promising.
    It sure wont hurt having a DHX coil shock laying around though!

  15. #15
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    Hey red ride.. I think you misread squeakys post.. look again..

    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    I agree in essence, but the thought of a sub 31# 6-Pack with an PUSH'd RP3 & PUSH'd Fox 36 is very tempting and would, by no means, not be suitable for agressive riding.

  16. #16

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    i think what he was trying to say was "a pushed rp3 shock and 36 fork, would by no means be unsuitable for agressive riding"
    god damn it yanks, if u want to use the english language, then be sure to use proper english grammer

  17. #17
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    tough crowd, tough crowd.
    I tell ya' , I get no respect.

    Thanks for the clarification folks.

    What I want to say: The RP3, particularly if PUSH'd, and a Fox 36, particularly if PUSH'd, will be killer setup on the 6-Pack and it's precisely what I'm planning on doing.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    tough crowd, tough crowd.
    I tell ya' , I get no respect.

    Thanks for the clarification folks.

    What I want to say: The RP3, particularly if PUSH'd, and a Fox 36, particularly if PUSH'd, will be killer setup on the 6-Pack and it's precisely what I'm planning on doing.

    Sorry Squeaky, what can I say, Im just a hick from the hills who cant read! My only point was just to say, get those air componets, I think you will like it!
    I would have never said that last year, riding on a 5th Air back to back with Romics has set me straight. I rode a few bikes at IB too with RP3's and those things are super plush!
    Cant wait to try a "Push'd" shock!

  19. #19
    FM
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    OK.. one more thing then.

    I don't see much point of getting either shock pushed- the stock RP3 I rode was plusher than my coil-over romic, and had a better platform too. As for the fork, What would the point of getting that pushed be? There's certainly not much point in adding spv to a free-ride fork... most people I know (namely manitou owners) didn't even like spv forks for XC riding...

    Anyways, seems to me you might want to get the bike, ride it, and see if it actually can be improved before you go throwing more money at it. Cause otherwise, your just spending a lot of money and shipping a lot of things around instead of riding your new dream bike.

    Once again, just my .02c...


    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    tough crowd, tough crowd.
    I tell ya' , I get no respect.

    Thanks for the clarification folks.

    What I want to say: The RP3, particularly if PUSH'd, and a Fox 36, particularly if PUSH'd, will be killer setup on the 6-Pack and it's precisely what I'm planning on doing.

  20. #20
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    Well the reason might only to have it done is just to have lighter weight of the air and the performance of the coil, but you might be right, the first bike I road with a RP3 I had to keep looking down to see if the shock didnt just blow all its air out, it was just that plush!
    Fox 36, not me anyway, I dont like the platform in my forks, I wamt bump eating performance like butta!

    I don't see much point of getting either shock pushed- the stock RP3 I rode was plusher than my coil-over romic, and had a better platform too. As for the fork, What would the point of getting that pushed be? There's certainly not much point in adding spv to a free-ride fork... most people I know (namely manitou owners) didn't even like spv forks for XC riding...

    Anyways, seems to me you might want to get the bike, ride it, and see if it actually can be improved before you go throwing more money at it. Cause otherwise, your just spending a lot of money and shipping a lot of things around instead of riding your new dream bike.

    Once again, just my .02c...[/QUOTE]

  21. #21
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    Damm. You folks have my head spinning.

    I'm a zoke fan... no secret about that. I hear all this noise about the 36, start salivating only to hear it's a loooong way off. Hmmm... did someone say it's about the same weight as the AM or Z1? did they mean the SL? And does the fox have a quick wind-down/lock out like the Zoke? I'm thinking for my riding, sometimes I need a quick drop with a firm-up to stand and mash so I can stay in the same zip code as some of my XC buddies. I don't do it often but, one thing I liked about the ETA was the firmness. On technical climbs I like full soft travel, and those climbs are too short to fuss with adjustments anyway.

    I think this RP3 chatter has me sold...is there any reason to get the DHX then? It sounds as if the RP is plenty plush and platformable enough to keep me from missing my Romic. So what's the DHX's extra weight bring to trailbike table?

    Damm this UGI!!! I was planning on getting a r**d bike this fall!
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    Damm. You folks have my head spinning.

    I'm a zoke fan... no secret about that. I hear all this noise about the 36, start salivating only to hear it's a loooong way off. Hmmm... did someone say it's about the same weight as the AM or Z1? did they mean the SL? And does the fox have a quick wind-down/lock out like the Zoke? I'm thinking for my riding, sometimes I need a quick drop with a firm-up to stand and mash so I can stay in the same zip code as some of my XC buddies. I don't do it often but, one thing I liked about the ETA was the firmness. On technical climbs I like full soft travel, and those climbs are too short to fuss with adjustments anyway.

    I think this RP3 chatter has me sold...is there any reason to get the DHX then? It sounds as if the RP is plenty plush and platformable enough to keep me from missing my Romic. So what's the DHX's extra weight bring to trailbike table?

    Damm this UGI!!! I was planning on getting a r**d bike this fall!
    ....let me bring some smelling salts to this conversation. 'Zilla, anyone saying that the RP3 feels as good as the DHX is either a light weight, solely an internet cyclist, or just plain wouldn't notice the difference anyway. Take it from a 225 lb clyde who has ridden & can definitely tell a significant difference. To me ~ 1lb difference in complete bike weight is nearly indiscernible...but the performance difference between the two is noticeable. The RP3 is most certainly a great air shock....however, on a clydes trailbike, I'll take the added performance anyday. Sheesh........weight weenies have invaded freeriding-we'll never be the same again!


  23. #23
    FM
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    I hear ya.... I can't imagine improving on marzocchi. The 36 is supposed to be 5lbs, thats 1lb lighter than my Z150 but no coil springs, ETA, or buttery smooth, durable steel stanchions. I'll keep what I got. Same with the RFX vs. the 6-pack. You just can't improve much on perfection.

    Sign me up for an RP3 and another great summer with my RFX&Z150. What a trip, a bike I still love after owning it for a year!




    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    ]I'm a zoke fan... no secret about that. I hear all this noise about the 36, start salivating only to hear it's a loooong way off. Hmmm... did someone say it's about the same weight as the AM or Z1? did they mean the SL? And does the fox have a quick wind-down/lock out like the Zoke? I'm thinking for my riding, sometimes I need a quick drop with a firm-up to stand and mash so I can stay in the same zip code as some of my XC buddies. I don't do it often but, one thing I liked about the ETA was the firmness. On technical climbs I like full soft travel, and those climbs are too short to fuss with adjustments anyway.

    I think this RP3 chatter has me sold...is there any reason to get the DHX then? It sounds as if the RP is plenty plush and platformable enough to keep me from missing my Romic. So what's the DHX's extra weight bring to trailbike table?

    Damm this UGI!!! I was planning on getting a r**d bike this fall!

  24. #24
    Bodhisattva
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    FM,

    The platform really is the most insignificant part of the PUSH upgrade. It's the vastly superior damping which translates into more control and a smoother stroke that really sets the PUSH service apart from the stock set-up. See my post on the shock board about my recent TALAS service if you're interested.
    It's just more better-er

  25. #25
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    I can't argue too much there either. I'm running a Z150 on the Chamuco and it's just the smoothest shock I've ever had but that darned bike weighs 35# & I only weigh 160# so my next rut-gobbling monster is going on a diet (cause I can't).

    As for the PUSh...well, I guess you can call me a zealot. I'm just amazed at what they did to my AVA Float rear & TALAS front on my hammerhead. It truly feels coil-esque. Only time I can tell the difference is on small chattery stuff where the coil has the slight edge but otherwise I can't tell the difference on the medium/big stuff and the PUSH'd stuff tracks like Pocohontas.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    FM,

    The platform really is the most insignificant part of the PUSH upgrade. It's the vastly superior damping which translates into more control and a smoother stroke that really sets the PUSH service apart from the stock set-up. See my post on the shock board about my recent TALAS service if you're interested.
    It's just more better-er

    Funny thing you mentioning the chatter stuff, I asked a fellow rider how he liked the Fox 36 while riding a 575 at IB during the demo days. I told him the main reason was that I have a 575 but that Im using a Pike fork, he replied back that he too rides with a Pike. His statement about the 36 was that it is much better than the Pike on the Chatter stuff. the fork has to be smooth to do that. I felt one at the show room, hitting it with different forces, small continous hits, like chatter, and hard hitting hits, my first impressions is that the fork works like a coil. Now, Im a big coil fan, and I will run a Z1 untill the Fox is available, if the reports start coming in that the fork isnt all that, then I wont have any problems keeping the Zoke, esp if the claimed weights of the Z1 are true, 5.06 lbs!!!!

  27. #27
    rr
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    Ride now, or wait and spend.... whats the saying, "a bush in the woods is worth three in hand"?
    I think thats "a bird in hand is better than 2 in the bush"

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    ....let me bring some smelling salts to this conversation. 'Zilla, anyone saying that the RP3 feels as good as the DHX is either a light weight, solely an internet cyclist, or just plain wouldn't notice the difference anyway. Take it from a 225 lb clyde who has ridden & can definitely tell a significant difference. To me ~ 1lb difference in complete bike weight is nearly indiscernible...but the performance difference between the two is noticeable. The RP3 is most certainly a great air shock....however, on a clydes trailbike, I'll take the added performance anyday. Sheesh........weight weenies have invaded freeriding-we'll never be the same again!
    Well, thats what I fiqured but I have not ridden the RP3 so I didn't want to say anything, sounds like a great shock for those Spot owners looking to lighten up their bikes for racing or guys like Squeak who will do a lot of climbing on their 6 packs.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    ....let me bring some smelling salts to this conversation. 'Zilla, anyone saying that the RP3 feels as good as the DHX is either a light weight, solely an internet cyclist, or just plain wouldn't notice the difference anyway. Take it from a 225 lb clyde who has ridden & can definitely tell a significant difference.
    Obviously, out of the box the DHX is going to ride better. What Squeaky was saying is that a Push'ed RP3 will be comparable to a stock DHX in ride quality. Darren (owner of Push) was in my shop the other day (while Squeaky was there), and we were talking about it. The RP3 service isn't available to the public yet, but will be in the coming months. Darren was running a DHX on his moment and then put an RP3 on. He says the Push'ed RP3 is very comparable in performance to the stock DHX. Granted, that doesn't mean that the RP3 would be better for all applications (ie: clydes, or true freeriding), but for a long travel trail bike & small to moderate drops it's certainly worth considering.
    Larry Mettler
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ride red
    Funny thing you mentioning the chatter stuff, I asked a fellow rider how he liked the Fox 36 while riding a 575 at IB during the demo days. I told him the main reason was that I have a 575 but that Im using a Pike fork, he replied back that he too rides with a Pike. His statement about the 36 was that it is much better than the Pike on the Chatter stuff. the fork has to be smooth to do that. I felt one at the show room, hitting it with different forces, small continous hits, like chatter, and hard hitting hits, my first impressions is that the fork works like a coil. Now, Im a big coil fan, and I will run a Z1 untill the Fox is available, if the reports start coming in that the fork isnt all that, then I wont have any problems keeping the Zoke, esp if the claimed weights of the Z1 are true, 5.06 lbs!!!!
    I doubt that weight is accurate, as the All-Mountain 1 weighs that much (actual weight) and the Z1 will certainly be heavier.
    Larry Mettler
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  31. #31
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    ...and remember the weights on the Zoke website do NOT include the steerer tube.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  32. #32
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    But certainly you'll agree, "a bush in hand is better than 2 birds"?

    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    I think thats "a bird in hand is better than 2 in the bush"
    As for the shock thing, yes this has gotten a little out of control! Nobody said the RP3 was a better shock than the DHX. However, I did find in a back-to back comparison, that the RP3 felt at least as good as my romic for choppy trail riding. Maybe not a fair comparison since my romic hasn't felt right since the last rebuild, which is part of the reason I'm interested in the RP3.

    (the romic's probably going back again now that rainy season is here)

  33. #33
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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    I have pretty much the same fork questions as everyone else and am having a hard time keeping up with all the new stuff, so instead of starting a new thread, or searching, or getting into an argument with jm....

    brief recap, been running the vanilla on my rfx5 all summer after offing my 03.5 Z150. Repeated landings/bottoming can't be good for this fork and it just feels like the weakest link on the rfx.

    What I want is a new fork soon, 20mm axle, and adjustable travel so I can experiment with my 5 and 6 rockers. On the fly travel adjust isn't mandatory, but worth a try.

    After chasing my friends with DUC's around in CO I was sure that was the fork for me. I'd like to get something new soon and all the new choices have to be factored in now.

    My last air fork was a mag 21, I have spent some time on the Talas. But I'm wary of air. If I get an air fork, I'll feel compelled to get a RP3 also, I'd want a coil back up front and rear though.

    05 Z1, only one spring rate option? i.e. take out one spring if not soft enough? Is the travel adjustable?

    I got a bunch of other questions for you Larry, email is on the way.

    I know this topic has gotten it's fair share of attention lately but I like to hear some recomendations for what I can get now.

    For those who are tiring of this topic and are only here for the pictures, our new bunnies.
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  34. #34
    FM
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    Super cute bunny pictures!

    I've been following and posting on this thread mainly because I'm on a short leash for the next week- my wife is due with our first child, next saturday! So pardon me whilst I attempt to stay entertained....The bikes are locked up, after a summer of great riding.
    Time to focus on other things.

    Along with surfing MTBR and twiddling my thumbs while waiting, I'm also building a small "kitty house" to put our cat's self-emptying electronic litter box in. It had to move somewhere since the room it used to be in, is now a nursery.

    Anyways I think you should all get 2005 150mm travel marzocchi Z1's, it'll be like a 5lb Z150, what more could you want!

    Quote Originally Posted by airwreck
    I know this topic has gotten it's fair share of attention lately but I like to hear some recomendations for what I can get now.

    For those who are tiring of this topic and are only here for the pictures, our new bunnies.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    Super cute bunny pictures!

    I've been following and posting on this thread mainly because I'm on a short leash for the next week- my wife is due with our first child, next saturday! So pardon me whilst I attempt to stay entertained....The bikes are locked up, after a summer of great riding.
    Time to focus on other things.

    Along with surfing MTBR and twiddling my thumbs while waiting, I'm also building a small "kitty house" to put our cat's self-emptying electronic litter box in. It had to move somewhere since the room it used to be in, is now a nursery.

    Anyways I think you should all get 2005 150mm travel marzocchi Z1's, it'll be like a 5lb Z150, what more could you want!
    The weights on the Marzocchi site have to be way off! They are claiming 2378g (5.24lbs)for the QR20 Z1 FR ETA and 1778g (3.91) for the All Mtn SL 130-150 adj

    I thought I remember seeing real world weights for the Z150 (04) being over 6lbs and the SL version around 5.5lbs. What did they change in 05 to shave all that weight?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    The weights on the Marzocchi site have to be way off! They are claiming 2378g (5.24lbs)for the QR20 Z1 FR ETA and 1778g (3.91) for the All Mtn SL 130-150 adj

    I thought I remember seeing real world weights for the Z150 (04) being over 6lbs and the SL version around 5.5lbs. What did they change in 05 to shave all that weight?
    They went to alloy stanchions on the FR instead of steel. The weight (with steerer tube) for the 05Z1FR1 is listed on Marz website as 5.74lbs (2604gm) The 04 Z150 was listed at 6.39lbs which I confirmed by weighing 2 different 04's on my scale at 6.3lbs. So the 05 model shaves off .65 lbs.

    Fox is claiming "Under 5lbs" on their ads. No actual weights yet that I have seen but that would be almost a pound lighter than the 05 Z1 and 1-1/2lbs lighter than the 04 Z150.

    I have an 04 Z150. I rode the new 05Z1 for a short time at IB and would say it felt a little better but that I did not get enough time on it to really say. I also rode the 36 for about an hour and it was awesome. So smooth in the damping without any slurping sounds. good range of external adjustment made it easy to setup and the TALAS feature is great for west coast riding. The ETA leaves a lot to be desired IMO for technical climbing. It is only useful to me on smooth fireroad climbs. My only problem with the 36 is the price. Fox really needs to bring the price down to be more inline with the other 6in single crowns. I can see it being $50-100 more than the other forks but $1000 is outrageous.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanedawg
    They went to alloy stanchions on the FR instead of steel. The weight (with steerer tube) for the 05Z1FR1 is listed on Marz website as 5.74lbs (2604gm) The 04 Z150 was listed at 6.39lbs which I confirmed by weighing 2 different 04's on my scale at 6.3lbs. So the 05 model shaves off .65 lbs.

    Fox is claiming "Under 5lbs" on their ads. No actual weights yet that I have seen but that would be almost a pound lighter than the 05 Z1 and 1-1/2lbs lighter than the 04 Z150.

    I have an 04 Z150. I rode the new 05Z1 for a short time at IB and would say it felt a little better but that I did not get enough time on it to really say. I also rode the 36 for about an hour and it was awesome. So smooth in the damping without any slurping sounds. good range of external adjustment made it easy to setup and the TALAS feature is great for west coast riding. The ETA leaves a lot to be desired IMO for technical climbing. It is only useful to me on smooth fireroad climbs. My only problem with the 36 is the price. Fox really needs to bring the price down to be more inline with the other 6in single crowns. I can see it being $50-100 more than the other forks but $1000 is outrageous.
    Thanks for the update. I haven't followed all the changes in the Marzocchi line since I've been very happy with my Fox until now that there are a lot of 130-150 forks coming out. Did you see the All Mountain SL at IB? Much better color than the AM1 and lighter. Too bad it's not available in a 20mm axle though. The SL at approx $755 sounds like an interesting option if the 36 keeps getting delayed and much more $$.

  38. #38
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    All I know is...

    ...getting your hand in some bird's bush is better than bike riding.

    The new Fox Forx have me questing for components that for me, the average joe rider, remain theoretical figments of imagination for at least the next several months.

    I've gone through 5 different forks on my RFX - 03Z1FRQR20, 03Vanilla, 03TALAS, 03Z150FR, and now a 04Z1SL. The best fork, for me, so far, was the former - would have saved myself a lot of time (and mula) had I just stuck with it. The latter fork is remarkably stiff for a single crown, standard QR jobby but I need to spend some time on oil heights/viscosity.

    Shocks - I have a custom-gutted Romic (stout, tuned for my girth) and a Cloud Nine (light, simple) but find myself wanting a RP3 for my primarily XC riding and leaving the Romic for my 6" rockers.

    Then again, this may all be moot because the RFX is destined for the auction block to finance a new 29er FS bike...

    Sean
    Professional Amateur

  39. #39
    FM
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    Times, they are a changin'

    Interesting that this conversation comes around to prices, and having tried a variety of different forks in a short period of time....

    Technology is evolving very quickly. I've seen a few friends blow big coin on a bike that HAS to last them 3--4 seasons, only to have technology, weights, prices and personal riding styles do a 180 within months. I *personally* can't see paying $1k for a fork when things are changing so fast.

    Back to the RFX/6-pack. I think I've stated my opinion that it's short-sighted to try and build such a bike up light. Fact is, my RFX is my favorite bike, but I ride it less and less... it's just overkill for my local trails. But, when those summer weekends come 'round, I pull pull out the RFX, and it could be 40lbs+ for all I care- shaving 2lbs off the bike doesn't matter much when I'm climbing the flank trail with 3/4 gallon of water, 4lbs worth of pads, and big drops on the radar.

    Owning a bike like this is a luxury, I don't need to use it every ride. It's taught me new skills. Anyways, instead of dropping a lot of coin lightening a FR bike, I've been much happier riding a cheaper & lighter XC bike on XC rides, and saving the big bike for big days. Seems like a theme among RFX owners.

    Just my thoughts, as always....

    Quote Originally Posted by Soupboy
    ...getting your hand in some bird's bush is better than bike riding.

    The new Fox Forx have me questing for components that for me, the average joe rider, remain theoretical figments of imagination for at least the next several months.

    Sean

  40. #40
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    Reading the input here and thinking...I'm really quite happy with my '03Z1QR20 (for trail riding) and while I wouldn't mind dropping some weight in the process of feeding my chronic UGI and getting an adjustable inch to play with...a thousand dollar fork is difficult to justify when I have something I already like and trust. Actually my opinion of my Z1 is well above like and has been since day one. Besides, who am i to worry about weight? I think I'm going to have to sit through this debate a while longer and see where things go with the '05s and while I'm in no hurry, if the 36 is a summer aftermarket product, then that's one full product cycle later IMO b/c I'll still want to read some feedback from people with real trail time on it. It has too many new things going on with it to know how 1st production runs will sort out.

    Man, another 180 for the lizzard. Time to sit down.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    my wife is due with our first child, next saturday!
    Congrats and I can't imagine the anxiety you must be feeling right now. We weren't satisfied with the parenting practice from raising two cats, so we're trying rabbits now to advance our training.

    The SO has been running 2.35's and 100mm fork on her Dekerf lately, and is loving it more than ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soupboy
    I've gone through 5 different forks on my RFX - 03Z1FRQR20, 03Vanilla, 03TALAS, 03Z150FR, and now a 04Z1SL.
    I've gone from MrT, to Vanilla, to Z150, back to Vanilla, and spent a bit of time on the SO's Talas. Being the curious type I'm anxious to try a taller A2C with the 5 inch rockers, and a lower A2C than the Z150 with the 6 inch rockers. Plus I want it lighter stiffer and plusher. Seems like it's taking the fork makers forever to catch up with the RFX! And then I have to wait even longer for the closeout prices so I can actually afford it.

    Starting to think I should just pick up an 03 Z1 for now. On the weight subject, shouldn't a lighter fork help for those low speed manual drops where I'm not quite getting the front end up enough?

  42. #42
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    IMO you don't need to wait for PUSH before spec'ing a 6 Pack with an RP3, particularly after spending the weekend in Moab riding Gold Bar Rim and Little Creek Mesa with one on my Spot. Both trails had plenty of punishment to dish out leaving the RP3 shrugging its shoulder begging for more.


    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    However, I did find in a back-to back comparison, that the RP3 felt at least as good as my romic for choppy trail riding.
    I really can't think of one thing the Romic does better than the RP3, and one place it far exceeds the Romic is in fast choppy chatter studder bumps (say it fast five times). My Romic is going to be collecting a lot of dust while sitting on my work bench.


    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    I don't see much point of getting either shock pushed- the stock RP3 I rode was plusher than my coil-over romic, and had a better platform too.
    As far as the need to Push either, I'm going to agree with FM. I'm not saying there's no room for improvement just that the death grips of UGI haven't set in yet and I'm not in a hurry to ship off my RP3 to Darren for the kinda coin he's asking before I hear solid testimony to substantial performance gains.


    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    Put a Z150 on there, or the already available 2005 150mm Z1, it's perfection.
    (FM you tired of me quoting you yet?) While in Moab Tscheezy and I rode with a fellow MTBR junkie , I think his handle was KonaXTR (we consider calling each other by our handles but thought it might be a little too weird), who had just built up a La Bruja with a '05 Z1. I only rode it around the parking lot while performing the offical "pogo-stick" test, and all I can say is that it felt like... well, a Z1 with some more travel. So if you're a fan of the Z1 you can't go wrong. Personally I'm going to be waiting for the 36, it felt that much more buttery plush, and will mate nicely with the RP3 in the rear.

  43. #43
    FM
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    Cool, what kind of dekerf?

    You know my other ride is an implant with a Z1 and 2.4's, I love that bike!

    Quote Originally Posted by airwreck
    The SO has been running 2.35's and 100mm fork on her Dekerf lately, and is loving it more than ever.

    Starting to think I should just pick up an 03 Z1 for now. On the weight subject, shouldn't a lighter fork help for those low speed manual drops where I'm not quite getting the front end up enough?
    Man I don't know about that, having tried different forks... what length stem are you running?

    Anyways for me, if I can't hit a drop at jogging speed or faster, I'm going to wheelie drop it anyways....

  44. #44
    FM
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    Good to hear about the RP3! I'm sending my romic off again, hopefully they can make it work like it did when I first got it. Either way I'll probably pick up an RP3 when a good deal comes along......

    The Fox36 does sound really cool.
    Marzocchi has me under their grips though- they make the only forks I haven't regretted buying two years after purchasing. Fox is going to have to make a superior product at a competitive price before I make the switch.

    Once again, I'm really tripping that I may actually roll into next year with mimimal UGI!

    I wonder if Darren @ push offers any services for marzocchi owners?



    Quote Originally Posted by CrashTheDOG
    IMO you don't need to wait for PUSH before spec'ing a 6 Pack with an RP3, particularly after spending the weekend in Moab riding Gold Bar Rim and Little Creek Mesa with one on my Spot. Both trails had plenty of punishment to dish out leaving the RP3 shrugging its shoulder begging for more.
    I really can't think of one thing the Romic does better than the RP3, and one place it far exceeds the Romic is in fast choppy chatter studder bumps (say it fast five times). My Romic is going to be collecting a lot of dust while sitting on my work bench.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM

    I wonder if Darren @ push offers any services for marzocchi owners?
    Not yet. Maybe in the not-so-distant future.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrashTheDOG
    I










    ( , I think his handle was KonaXTR (we consider calling each other by our handles who had just built up a La Bruja with a '05 Z1. I only rode it around the parking lot.

    Hey crash, can you add anything about the La Bruja frame and its ride?
    Thanks

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    Cool, what kind of dekerf?

    You know my other ride is an implant with a Z1 and 2.4's, I love that bike!
    "jewels" has a generation (and a turner), she's always admired your taste in bikes.

    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    Anyways for me, if I can't hit a drop at jogging speed or faster, I'm going to wheelie drop it anyways....
    wheelie drop, manual, whatever, I'm not hip with the latest terminology, I'm just looking for an excuse when I stuff the front wheel in on those not enough speed drops.

  48. #48
    Roy
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Not yet. Maybe in the not-so-distant future.
    I asked him about this a while ago and he thought it was unlikely because Marz uses cartridges, which made it very difficult for him to do anything with.

  49. #49

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    eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by casp
    god damn it yanks, if u want to use the english language, then be sure to use proper english grammer
    What is a grammer?

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ventanarama
    Obviously, out of the box the DHX is going to ride better. What Squeaky was saying is that a Push'ed RP3 will be comparable to a stock DHX in ride quality. Darren (owner of Push) was in my shop the other day (while Squeaky was there), and we were talking about it. The RP3 service isn't available to the public yet, but will be in the coming months. Darren was running a DHX on his moment and then put an RP3 on. He says the Push'ed RP3 is very comparable in performance to the stock DHX. Granted, that doesn't mean that the RP3 would be better for all applications (ie: clydes, or true freeriding), but for a long travel trail bike & small to moderate drops it's certainly worth considering.
    Larry Mettler
    http://www.mtnhighcyclery.com
    That's not really a fair comparrision, PUSH plans to modify the DHX, so a Pushed DHX would probably outperform a Pushed RP3, since you are comparing a Pushed RP3 to a stock DHX.

  51. #51
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    yeah!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jm.
    That's not really a fair comparrision, PUSH plans to modify the DHX, so a Pushed DHX would probably outperform a Pushed RP3, since you are comparing a Pushed RP3 to a stock DHX.
    And one is air and lighter and...
    wait a second. Do you mean to say we can only compare like things? So for instance, a Pushed RP3 compared to a Pushed RP3? How much fun is that?
    And without comparing them, how will people (like me) who can't use coil shocks on their bikes know roughly what they are equivalent to?
    I welcome any and all comparisons, be they fair or not.
    It may not be fair to compare my Cobb Stg 2 WRX to a stock S2000, but that's the only way I wanna race...
    Golden Bike Park

    Golden Connector Trails need your support!

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbabuser
    my Cobb Stg 2 WRX
    dude..you suck. What I would do to have that in mine - that or Vishnu

  53. #53
    FM
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    RFX factor

    The DHX doesn't fit on med. or smaller RFX's.... which means us RFX guys looking for romic alternatives are willing to compare apples to oranges.

    Despite peoples preconceptions about coil vs. air, fox has bridged the gap with the RP3.
    (And maybe with the 36 fork.) I hear that Steve Peat's boxxer is air sprung.....Personally, I don't care about the weight or spring medium, I just want better feel and reliability. Maybe the DHX feels best, but until they make one that fit's on my bike, I'm not real excited.

  54. #54
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    My RP3 feels better than any of the DHX equipped bikes I rode at the Dirt Demo, and that included the 6-Pack (even when ignoring the Boxxer... and that is tough to do...). Not by a huge margin, but better. The DHX has many more adjustments than the RP3 though. That could be worth a lot if you are into spinning knobs. The RP3 sure is light though, and it is proving it's metal every day I am on my trip....
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ride red
    Hey crash, can you add anything about the La Bruja frame and its ride?
    Like I said I only did a quick spin around the parking lot so any critisism that I might have isn't too constructive. IMO the La Bruja is a little too over built for a 6" bike. I'd imagine that the frame is noticably heavier than the 6 Pack. Tscheezy noticed that the clearance between the seat tube and the springs on the Romic is incredibly tight. With a 450 lbs spring we couldn't even see day light between the two, and I believe that with the shock removed there were signs of buffing on the ST. I also believe that Ventana is doing a complete make over of the La Bruja for '05 making it a 7-8" convertivle travel bike. So FWIW, between what I little time I spent on the La Bruja and the X-5 at iBike I'm not even tempted to jump ship from Turner.

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