What's the deal with Hope brake mounting?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    What's the deal with Hope brake mounting?

    What's the deal with Hope brakes? I am trying their Mono M4 brakes and am finding that the amount of washers I need to use is excessive. What kind of poorly thought out mounting system is this? See photo. The front is bolted to a 2003 Marzocchi Z1 FR QR20 with Hope Bulb hubs. Look how far off the mounting is. The rear is not much better with half as many washers. The rear is mounted to a 5-spot with a CK hub. I can't imagine the mfrs. (Marzocchi, CK and especially Turner) being that far off so I have to conclude that Hope has their heads up their a$$es. Magura Martas direct bolt as well and I only had to use one or two thin washers. So what's the deal?
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  2. #2
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    Weird. I have two Mono M4 mounted on my F80RLT fork and my Giant MCM frame, and use only a few shims both front and rear.

  3. #3
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    Weird

    I'm using M4s and have no where near as many spacers as that. Different hubs and forks though.

    Are all those spacers really a problem? Could you put some disk spacers between the disk and hub to move it out with it hitting the fork?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by erol
    What's the deal with Hope brakes? I am trying their Mono M4 brakes and am finding that the amount of washers I need to use is excessive. What kind of poorly thought out mounting system is this? See photo. The front is bolted to a 2003 Marzocchi Z1 FR QR20 with Hope Bulb hubs. Look how far off the mounting is. The rear is not much better with half as many washers. The rear is mounted to a 5-spot with a CK hub. I can't imagine the mfrs. (Marzocchi, CK and especially Turner) being that far off so I have to conclude that Hope has their heads up their a$$es. Magura Martas direct bolt as well and I only had to use one or two thin washers. So what's the deal?
    ....first off, the Z1 QR20 has the IS mounts for an 8" rotor.....sooooo that is just the way it bolts up unless you are using a caliper designed for the DH IS mounts. Can't say I understand what could be the issue with the rear, it shouldn't require all too many shims ( as mine certainly didn't). I have contacted Marzocchi on the front/ spacing issue & their suggestion was what I had already applied......use some chainring spacers, they are the perfect width. This was done mounting my XT brake.......my Hopes use the 180mm rotor & mount up just fine.


  5. #5
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    Ditto JN...

    ...I had the same set up on my Z1QR20 including the hub but with non-Mono Enduro M4s (203 front, 185 rear). I was surprised by the number of spacers needed, but it never affected performance. I used both chainring spacers and well as thicker washers I picked up the from the LHS (local hardware store). Waaaaayyy more brake than the average bear needs...but I love 'em.

    On the rear of my RFX I run 0-2 very thin spacers depending on the brake pads' life. Those running CK Disc-O-Techs can try buying a larger disc hub adaptor 13mm or larger. What you have to be wary of then is getting the rotor too close to the fork legs.

    I noticed the Mono's have a more convenient hose fitting which allows you to adjust the hose angle...nice. On my Enduros I've flip flopped the hose ends or exhanged them outright depending on hose routing and frame-specific issues.

    Oh yeah, put that QR on the other side bruvah! That way your grubby paws don't grab that honking rotor accidentally.

    Hope this helps,

    Sean
    Professional Amateur

  6. #6
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    So I should use some chainring spacers behind the rotor? That's not a bad idea. My next problem is figuring out why the front brake lever goes all the way to the handlebar - guess I need to add fluid. What a PITA.

    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    ....first off, the Z1 QR20 has the IS mounts for an 8" rotor.....sooooo that is just the way it bolts up unless you are using a caliper designed for the DH IS mounts. Can't say I understand what could be the issue with the rear, it shouldn't require all too many shims ( as mine certainly didn't). I have contacted Marzocchi on the front/ spacing issue & their suggestion was what I had already applied......use some chainring spacers, they are the perfect width. This was done mounting my XT brake.......my Hopes use the 180mm rotor & mount up just fine.
    "Success consists of moving from failure to failure without losing heart." -Winston Churchill

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by erol
    So I should use some chainring spacers behind the rotor? That's not a bad idea. My next problem is figuring out why the front brake lever goes all the way to the handlebar - guess I need to add fluid. What a PITA.
    .....No......CR spacers to shim the caliper mount.

    Sounds like you need a bleed....lucky for you Hopes are super easy to bleed!!!!! Here's a lil trick for ya:

    ...after you get the mounting situated (IE....done fiddling around swapping stuff....etc). Set the lever so that the reservoir cap is parallel to the ground. Turn adjuster screw so that lever is furthest from the bar. Remove the cap & pump the lever several times. Now, using a firm rubber band or similar, squeeze lever to the bar & leave it there for several hours. Top up fluid if necessary & replace cap. If this doesn't work, You may have to do a full bleed as per manual's directions.


  8. #8
    Chaplin Turner Overdrive
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    I had this shimming problem with my Mono M4s on a set of older Hope XC hubs funnily enough. When I changed my wheelset to brand new Crossmax Enduros, I only needed one shim.

    It looks like maybe the Mono M4s don't work too well with older Hope hubs, at least not without spacers. It's only aesthetics, but I agree is a bit of a pain. I always remember CK hubs needing a bit of work with Hopes as well - looks like you've got a Sod's Law combo!

    However if it's any consolation Erol - once you've got 'em working they are fantastic. By far the best brakes Hope have produced IMO - well maybe apart from the crazy 6 pot Ti ones, but they're just silly.

  9. #9
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    Hope

    Quote Originally Posted by erol
    I can't imagine the mfrs. (Marzocchi, CK and especially Turner) being that far off so I have to conclude that Hope has their heads up their a$$es. Magura Martas direct bolt as well and I only had to use one or two thin washers. So what's the deal?
    Hope doesn't have their heads up their a$$es, but there maybe some others that do. Don't spew unless you know what you spew about. And maybe, just maybe you could contact the manufacturer before slamming them on some internet board.

    Hope has always done it this way, with 20mm thru axle forks you need a 5mm spacer between the fork tab and caliper. With a RockShox Psylo you don't because the fork isn't build exactly to the Int'l Standard. What does surprise me it that Hope doesn't send the spacers, or maybe they got lost. What you have done is good to go as long as your bolts are long enough.

    Monte

  10. #10
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    Thanks for the advice. I got some chainring spaces and am going to use them. As far as the amount of spacers needed I don't think that there should be that many required. There is no reason for it. Nope. None. Nada. Sorry, but no. I have contacted Hope but have received no response yet. I called them yesterday but the person I spoke with gave me bad info.



    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    ....first off, the Z1 QR20 has the IS mounts for an 8" rotor.....sooooo that is just the way it bolts up unless you are using a caliper designed for the DH IS mounts. Can't say I understand what could be the issue with the rear, it shouldn't require all too many shims ( as mine certainly didn't). I have contacted Marzocchi on the front/ spacing issue & their suggestion was what I had already applied......use some chainring spacers, they are the perfect width. This was done mounting my XT brake.......my Hopes use the 180mm rotor & mount up just fine.
    "Success consists of moving from failure to failure without losing heart." -Winston Churchill

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by erol
    Thanks for the advice. I got some chainring spaces and am going to use them. As far as the amount of spacers needed I don't think that there should be that many required. There is no reason for it. Nope. None. Nada. Sorry, but no. I have contacted Hope but have received no response yet. I called them yesterday but the person I spoke with gave me bad info.
    Actually there is a reason for it. If they made it so that the caliper would bolt straight onto a 110mm wide hub (20mm uses 110mm, vs. 100mm on quick release forks)then everyone running a standard quick-release fork would have the opposite problem, only worse because there would be no way to correct the spacing. Much easier to have people add 5mm of spacers than try to grind off 5mm of caliper or fork when trying to use them on a 100mm hub.
    Larry Mettler
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  12. #12
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    Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I tried your trick and it brought the brake to life.

    Everything is ok now - correct spacers, longer bolts, aligned, etc. Rotors are a little out of true out of the box but no significant rubbing. Just have to break them in now.

    You really have to know what you are doing setting these up. I can see how you could have problems otherwise (squeeling, reduced power, etc).


    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    .....No......CR spacers to shim the caliper mount.

    Sounds like you need a bleed....lucky for you Hopes are super easy to bleed!!!!! Here's a lil trick for ya:

    ...after you get the mounting situated (IE....done fiddling around swapping stuff....etc). Set the lever so that the reservoir cap is parallel to the ground. Turn adjuster screw so that lever is furthest from the bar. Remove the cap & pump the lever several times. Now, using a firm rubber band or similar, squeeze lever to the bar & leave it there for several hours. Top up fluid if necessary & replace cap. If this doesn't work, You may have to do a full bleed as per manual's directions.
    "Success consists of moving from failure to failure without losing heart." -Winston Churchill

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by erol
    ......Just have to break them in now.
    You really have to know what you are doing setting these up. I can see how you could have problems otherwise (squeeling, reduced power, etc)......
    ....I would still plan your first couple rides to include the longest, fastest downhills you have available......this will expediate the breakin process. When complete, Hopes have by far the best "feel" IMHO. You may find a more powerful brake (it is possible), but that'll just have you skidding all over! These things modulate incredibly & have a great lever feel (not to mention the superior quality of build/ annodized, etc..)


  14. #14
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    I'll keep you posted. I am a disk brake junkie and am always searching for the holy grail of braking performance v. weight. I have Avid Mechs, Magura Martas, Hayes HFX Comp and Mag Plus, and now Hope. I've tried many others. I even have Aluminum rotors and various pad compounds.



    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    ....I would still plan your first couple rides to include the longest, fastest downhills you have available......this will expediate the breakin process. When complete, Hopes have by far the best "feel" IMHO. You may find a more powerful brake (it is possible), but that'll just have you skidding all over! These things modulate incredibly & have a great lever feel (not to mention the superior quality of build/ annodized, etc..)
    "Success consists of moving from failure to failure without losing heart." -Winston Churchill

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