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  1. #1
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    Ultra Expensive Parts, even in this down economy?

    just ranting but wow, some of these new-fangled parts are at prices never before seen. I mean $2300 for an Easton Carbon Haven wheelset, $400ish for an XTR cassette (I think that's what MSRP was), $250 for an M985 rear derailleur, $1000 for a Lyrik Solo Air. WOW!! That's about $4k and we haven't even paid for a frame or the rest of the drivetrain and cockpit!

    Is this the direction of high-end mtb'ing? I better mortgage my house..oh wait, I can't afford one of those either
    We Ride In God's Country!

  2. #2
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    it's just the way it is...
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  3. #3
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    This is a singlespeed economy. Thinking about trying a YESS tensioner on my Sultan when it gets muddy.

    Morgan

  4. #4
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    You can have "high-end" without resorting to uber blingtastic builds.

    The technology in the level of parts you list will help us regular working guys out in the future when they trickle down the line.

  5. #5
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    [QUOTE=myitch;8568389]just ranting but wow, some of these new-fangled parts are at prices never before seen. I mean $2300 for an Easton Carbon Haven wheelset, $400ish for an XTR cassette (I think that's what MSRP was), $250 for an M985 rear derailleur, $1000 for a Lyrik Solo Air. WOW!! That's about $4k and we haven't even paid for a frame or the rest of the drivetrain and cockpit!

    Is this the direction of high-end mtb'ing? I better mortgage my house..oh wait, I can't afford one of those either[/QUOTE

    i'll give u a deal on a high end mtb part !
    i'll sell you a front 15mm qr easton haven carbon wheel for $750.00

  6. #6
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    In any economy there's a segment of folks with enough money to buy anything they want, at any price. Down economy, up economy, any economy. Today there are folks making millions of bucks a year. And some of them ride. To them a gazillion dollars for a wheelset is like you or me spending $150. The manufacturers know this.

    I was working on a house up in Aspen years ago. The owner and the architect were there. The owner looked kinda worried. The only thing I overheard him say to the architect was "can't you make this house more expensive?"
    Who's in charge, the thinker or the thought?

  7. #7
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    Sure, you can spend a fortune on high end mtb parts if you have the means and desire. Thing is you can have just as much fun in the woods on much less costly equipment. X7 or LX level components are every bit as effective as XX, XO or XTR stuff, they just weigh a bit more and may not be as pretty.
    The second hand market is loaded with top level gear from this and last year at 50% + savings if you don't mind gently used parts.
    For most of my cycling years I bought used gear only, couldn't justify the added expense for new when so much of what I wanted could be had at a huge discount.
    Used to be a frame a couple years old was horribly dated, now days most all bikes are so good that a couple of years is not such a big deal.
    In the end its all about enjoying your time in the woods, too many get strung out on needing the latest and greatest.

  8. #8
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    or else ride a rigid single speed,
    it will save you a ton of cash,
    and lots of fun too,
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  9. #9
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    Yeah, funny how some of those parts i just mentioned were actually sold out at my LBS. They couldn't keep enough of those $400 cassettes. Dang! Is that $400 cassette going to outperform or outlast the $80 cassette? Nope! Save a bunch of weight? Nope. Make the rider faster? Nope. Bling? Hmm, maybe if folks stare at the gears.
    We Ride In God's Country!

  10. #10
    Daniel the Dog
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    Yaw, no kidding, a $400 Dollar cassette is silly. My LBS was trying to justify the cost. I laughed at them...and irritated the owner Ooops.

  11. #11
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    People buy whatever they can justify within their budget. For some folks, that means top-of-the-line everything bought brand-new every couple years. For other folks, it might mean a mid-range hardtail from one of the "big three" that they maintain or upgrade as parts need replacing.

    I can't make sense out of a $400 cassette, either, but I also don't think there's a clear line to be drawn: if the market supports exorbitantly expensive kit, so be it.

    For my part? The classifieds are my friend.

    --Matt

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    They couldn't keep enough of those $400 cassettes. Save a bunch of weight? Nope.
    Umm... yeah. Over 3 ounces. And anybody paying $400 is an idiot. You can get them for around $250.

  13. #13
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    this may come as a shock, but 99% of us don't need top of the line parts to enjoy riding.

    my general philosophy is if you were talented enough that the difference between XTR and XT would make a difference in your riding, Shimano would be buying parts for you and paying you to use them.

    carbon wheels? yeah, and you can get metal wheels for 1/4 that price that are better than anything available at any price a couple years ago. Again, unless you have some disorder that makes it impossible for you to enjoy riding on less than the most expensive parts out there, flow rims and hope hubs are pretty good, and you could buy 4 sets for the price of havens.

  14. #14
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    ENVE rims RULE

    Well I have to disagree, the ENVE carbon rims completely blow away any other rim/wheel I have ridden. This is not a 3 oz on the cogset kinda difference, this is a in your race wow the bike corners better, every single corner and accelerates better, every pedal stroke. I will not even ride a Sultan with alloy wheels due to cornering/pedaling flex and sluggish acceleration the difference is so vast. 2 year unconditional guarantee as well. They break, you get a new one, try that with a bent side wall on a Stans. Hey I own Stans 'cause I can't afford ENVE for every bike, but if I could I WOULD and someday I will have converted my fleet to carbon rims. Condemning parts based on price alone? Really.

    DT

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    I must say that carbon rims have an undeniable advantage on the trail compared to alloy. Spending some time on ENVE and Easton carbon rims made me want that magic combo of super stiff light and strong for sure.

    That said, I still have a blast on my alloy wheel when I ride. That really is the point isn't it? Have fun and buy what you can afford/justify for your bike.

    If it makes you feel better go ahead and chuckle at the guy with the $2800 wheelset. Don't forget though, if they were to hand out those wheelsets (or $400 cogs) for free you know you would be in line to get a set.
    So don't be hating too hard on the expensive parts, it just looks like sour grapes.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1soulrider View Post
    That said, I still have a blast on my alloy wheel when I ride. That really is the point isn't it? Have fun and buy what you can afford/justify for your bike

    I can agree with that ! TIG.

  17. #17
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    I enjoy mountain biking and do it as often as possible; however, I'm not spending 2k on two rims. I don't care if it makes me fly and makes me a superstar! A carbon Turner would make up that difference quick

  18. #18
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    It's about disposable income isn't it? A 10 yr old Hyundai gets you from A-B too but some would rather be driving a Porsche. I don't get the whiners - if you can't afford to play then don't. Not implying I am rich just that you should spend within your means and enjoy what you can afford and what makes sense for you. As XCGuy said also plenty of people making good money ride. My lbs has cervelos running out the door daily.

  19. #19
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    The annoying part is knowing that some of this "high end" stuff costs pennies on the dollar to produce. ENVE rims? Sure you are getting your moneys worth... Chinese made Easton Carbon rims for the same price... Nope. Same with Shimano versus Sram... Shimano usually costs a little more than Sram but being made in Japan versus China means the markup is significantly lower.

    Whether or not people can afford it, most of the high end stuff is a marketing ploy anyhow... It helps keep the prices higher on the mid range stuff.
    Killing it with close inspection.

  20. #20
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    I wasn't condemming parts based on their price. I'm sure they're really sweet in performance. But I speak only for myself....and I am not one to pay such exhorbitant prices for bike parts.

    Now after those carbon wheels have been around awhile, have proven themselves after a few years of abuse, and have gone through a few iterations of improvement, maybe I'll consider a used set. Bikes are like computers, they improve, the technology and the means to make them improves, the market fluctuates, then the prices come down.

    Remember when the first front shocks came out? Back in 1992, I remember I paid $300 for a 2" travel fork, a Trek DS (or something like that). I was like, what the heck am I doing, paying this price? Fast forward to 2011 and look at the market for forks? What an advancement! Now that same $300 fork technology costs about $50 on a new Target bike.

    Maybe Easton is on to something, a breakthrough perhaps. I'll just wait until the prices come down before I purchase those wheels, if ever.
    We Ride In God's Country!

  21. #21
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    You guys ruined my plan on replacing my 2005 Spot,
    This thread reminds me how much I am going to spend to build a new and decent setup
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  22. #22
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    I have a 190X Mead Ranger. I hope to get it rideable someday. I found a 1919 Mead catalog and scanned it a while ago. Page through this. Here is the virtual fly-in--the-amber record of bicycle tech getting cheaper, improving and oh yeah, moving overseas.

    These were all single-speed 29ers by the way. :-)


    cover by fnagrom, on Flickr

    Morgan
    Last edited by morganfletcher; 10-28-2011 at 07:21 AM.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Well I have to disagree, the ENVE carbon rims completely blow away any other rim/wheel I have ridden. This is not a 3 oz on the cogset kinda difference, this is a in your race wow the bike corners better, every single corner and accelerates better, every pedal stroke. I will not even ride a Sultan with alloy wheels due to cornering/pedaling flex and sluggish acceleration the difference is so vast. 2 year unconditional guarantee as well. They break, you get a new one, try that with a bent side wall on a Stans. Hey I own Stans 'cause I can't afford ENVE for every bike, but if I could I WOULD and someday I will have converted my fleet to carbon rims. Condemning parts based on price alone? Really.
    DT
    Wow! Now I will have to try these rims. That is quite an endorsement.

    After this post I wonder if there is a carbon turner frame in our future. At would be awesome. I think.

    On topic. My approach to things that are priced higher than I think they are worth is to not buy them. Seems simple.

    Bob

  24. #24
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    And just to get the 26er dig in, check the copy on page 17, under the title Small Boys' and Girls' Bicycles:

    Frame - Flush joints throughout, made of the best steel tubing, 1 inch in diameter, long fish-tail reinforcements. 24-inch wheels with 16-inch frame, suitable for boys and girls 6 to 9 years of age; 26-inch wheels with 18-inch frame, suitable for boys and girls 8 to 11 years of age. Be sure to state what size is wanted. See, also, the Ranger "Scout" model for small boys - on page 12 - with full adult size wheels and tires. (See measuring suggestions on page 18.)
    "Adult sized wheels" were called 28" back then, because that was the diameter of the inflated 1-1/4" tire on the rim. The rim was exactly what we call a 700c rim now, AKA 29er.

    Mountain bikes started with 26" wheels because American fat-tire bikes were only for children in the last half of the 20th century. Every adult was expected to drive a car. So the hippies took the bikes available and that's where we get 26" wheeled mountain bikes.

    Hope you didn't mind the tangent,

    Morgan

  25. #25
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    650

    I have heard that some hippies wanted 650 wheels and tires but the only knobbies available in that size was from Hakkapalita in Finland. But the Soviet army bought up all the tires they had in stock when said hippie was mailing in his order, so off to Carlyle for some gum rubber sidewall 26s. When Araya made a alloy rim for the 26 'cruiser' class race bikes that sealed the deal. Basically both wheel sizes that are available were purely from convenience.

    Of course carbon Turner Bikes are in the future, how far is anyones guess though and for sure they won't be cheap.

    DT

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Hey I own Stans 'cause I can't afford ENVE for every bike, but if I could I WOULD and someday I will have converted my fleet to carbon rims.
    DT, do you have an opinions or recommendations on who you would use to lace your Enve wheels? I've heard that Enve is the only way to go because they know their product and can use a higher tensions on the spokes. Others say that you get a better build for cheaper by using a boutique wheel builder. Thoughts?

  27. #27
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    WTF is this #occupy MTBR.

  28. #28
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    I think what myitch is talking about is the rapid jump in prices we have seen over the last 5-6 years. I noticed that in the last 5 years almost all parts have doubled in price. Turner frames for example used to cost $2000 back in 1999, now they are about ~2500ish. Not too bad at all considering inflation.

    Cassettes that cost $70 back then are now $400. Forks that cost $300 are now $1600. Cranks that used to cost $80 are $320 now.

    What we are looking at was that some of these parts manufactures prices are skyrocketing.

    I say buy a new Turner frame and then hang some 3 year old used sram 9sp on it and call it a day. Don't but new stuff if it's gone up like 60% in the last year people!!!

    And to you manufactures (not Turner of course) who jacked your prices in the last few years just go look at Netflix losing customer by the millions and see what happens.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    650 stuff deleted cause I didn't understand it..

    Of course carbon Turner Bikes are in the future, how far is anyones guess though and for sure they won't be cheap.

    DT
    Yeah buddy! Its gotta be a 5spot. Until then I will ride the crap outta my '10 5 spot on alloy wheels and not whine!

    Get some!

    Bob

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanedawg View Post
    I think what myitch is talking about is the rapid jump in prices we have seen over the last 5-6 years. I noticed that in the last 5 years almost all parts have doubled in price. Turner frames for example used to cost $2000 back in 1999, now they are about ~2500ish. Not too bad at all considering inflation.
    The dollar is really weak, too.

    Morgan

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    have you ridden a pacenti p35

    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Well I have to disagree, the ENVE carbon rims completely blow away any other rim/wheel I have ridden. This is not a 3 oz on the cogset kinda difference, this is a in your race wow the bike corners better, every single corner and accelerates better, every pedal stroke. I will not even ride a Sultan with alloy wheels due to cornering/pedaling flex and sluggish acceleration the difference is so vast. 2 year unconditional guarantee as well. They break, you get a new one, try that with a bent side wall on a Stans. Hey I own Stans 'cause I can't afford ENVE for every bike, but if I could I WOULD and someday I will have converted my fleet to carbon rims. Condemning parts based on price alone? Really.

    DT
    Its alloy and stiff. It's the value oriented mans version of a rim that corners like an enve.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanedawg View Post
    I think what myitch is talking about is the rapid jump in prices we have seen over the last 5-6 years.
    I noticed that in the last 5 years almost all parts have doubled in price.
    Cassettes that cost $70 back then are now $400.
    Forks that cost $300 are now $1600. Cranks that used to cost $80 are $320 now. (edited to condense)
    +1
    Think much of this can be tied to the hype & mktg of the 10-spd format. Yes, maybe it's better, but really NOW - that much more $?
    Remember well that part costs jumped when 9-spd was introduced, and how the narrower format was initially resisted.

    Once again we're being asked to change formats, and this time the cost seems really noticeable, blatant to those w/ limited funds.
    Same game, a new format with crazy prices to those desiring the latest/greatest.
    Great plan for big mfg's to grow profits, while all consumers, and little fish take a bath.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1soulrider View Post
    Sure, you can spend a fortune on high end mtb parts if you have the means and desire. Thing is you can have just as much fun in the woods on much less costly equipment. X7 or LX level components are every bit as effective as XX, XO or XTR stuff, they just weigh a bit more and may not be as pretty.
    The second hand market is loaded with top level gear from this and last year at 50% + savings if you don't mind gently used parts.
    For most of my cycling years I bought used gear only, couldn't justify the added expense for new when so much of what I wanted could be had at a huge discount.
    Used to be a frame a couple years old was horribly dated, now days most all bikes are so good that a couple of years is not such a big deal.
    In the end its all about enjoying your time in the woods, too many get strung out on needing the latest and greatest.
    Completely agree. Until this year, I've never been overly concerned with price ... as long as the part functioned as advertised. My wife would just laugh at my $75 tires (that last half a summer), $200 rear derailleurs, and $875 forks (that require $200 Push treatment before using).
    For some reason, the recent pricing strategies created an awareness I haven't had before. My last couple of purchases have been Shimano SLX level gear, and it hasn't changed my life much, one way or the other. It's nice stuff.
    I realize as an end consumers, it's ultimately up to us whether or not high-end parts are available, and at what price. The fact that a $2000.00 set of carbon rims simply exists, tells me that this sport has vary wide array of participants. I would never consider spending $2k on a rim, but it's fun to know it exists...

  34. #34
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    I've always enjoyed passing the super-bling bikes on my mid-level setups...kind of like sticking it to the advertising machine that says you have to buy this stuff. As was said previously, high end gear doesn't necessarily make a better or faster rider, and does not correlate to having more fun IMO. There is a place for super high end gear in every sport, but advertisers will have you believe that you need that level of stuff to ride well, be fast, have fun, etc. It's much cheaper to lose five pounds off the rider than it is to lose two pounds off the bike. Just my opinion...ride what you like, and rather than debate it too extensively, the point as always is to just get out and ride.

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    Some of you need to look around outside the bike world. The Dow aint @ 7800 anymore. People making money buy those parts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    Some of you need to look around outside the bike world. The Dow aint @ 7800 anymore. People making money buy those parts.
    Plus MTBing is a hobby which means $400 for a cassette is perfectly reasonable and logical to some regardless of wealth.
    Killing it with close inspection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireLikeIYA View Post
    Plus MTBing is a hobby which means $400 for a cassette is perfectly reasonable and logical to some regardless of wealth.
    Same logic that works for those willing to buy a $400k Bentley when a $30k Honda will do the same thing.
    Might impress some, yet to argue that this is reasonable may prove difficult. Please try to explain how a $400 cassette is reasonable, because I'm missing it.
    In the meantime, be prepared to hike back to the car when you bike break downs, cause nobody else is packing a compatible part.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyin_W View Post
    Please try to explain how a $400 cassette is reasonable, because I'm missing it.
    I can't explain it... I have a hard time spending $60 for a cassette.
    Killing it with close inspection.

  39. #39
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    DollarTimes.com | Inflation Calculator

    Interesting link. You can calculate today's dollar value vs. past years.

    That $300 I spent on that Trek DS fork came out to about $472 if I bought it today. I can't believe I spent that much on that fork when I think the whole bike cost me about $600 maybe.
    We Ride In God's Country!

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    I think that a few here are missing a pretty important point.

    Parts that are made now are way better then before. The shifting quality of a entry level group is better now than XTR was years ago. A Talas 36 RC2 is able to do runs day after day, where an old fork would snap.

    HyperGlide used to be a feature reserved only for Deore LX and up (called MT LX at the Time), now it is standard.

    High end parts are expensive because they are used to improve the brands, and the technology trickles down from there. It should be celebrated that there are companies willing to make high end parts, and people willing to buy them, it makes mid and low end parts better in the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by renoirbud View Post
    I think that a few here are missing a pretty important point.

    Parts that are made now are way better then before. The shifting quality of a entry level group is better now than XTR was years ago. A Talas 36 RC2 is able to do runs day after day, where an old fork would snap.

    HyperGlide used to be a feature reserved only for Deore LX and up (called MT LX at the Time), now it is standard.

    High end parts are expensive because they are used to improve the brands, and the technology trickles down from there. It should be celebrated that there are companies willing to make high end parts, and people willing to buy them, it makes mid and low end parts better in the future.
    Really!?!

    I think you have it backwards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ex-a-miner View Post
    Really!?!

    I think you have it backwards.
    You feel that the Deore 7 speed from 1989 is better then the current offerings?

    If thats the case, I am sure you can find some thumbshifters somewhere.

    Good luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by renoirbud View Post
    You feel that the Deore 7 speed from 1989 is better then the current offerings?

    If thats the case, I am sure you can find some thumbshifters somewhere.

    Good luck.
    Ha, the difference is that I would probably have a better chance of finding a functional thumbshifter than a two-year-old trigger

    My comment was more addressing your assertion that inflated prices on high-end products makes mid level components better. While that is certainly arguable, there is no doubt that it makes them more expensive.

  44. #44
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    You want to try buying those Easton Haven carbon wheels if you live in the UK (like me) - they cost $3,200 !!!

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    without reading this thread, here's what I have to suggest:

    as the income gap between the wealthy and middle class is at the greatest point it has ever been in the united states, and the top 10% control about 66% of the wealth in america, we should be seeing even MORE ultra high end extremely expensive parts! 50K for a 6 pound road bike? Pah! wait till some brand comes out with a 5.5 lb road bike for 120K! $2500 for a wheelset? Psh, petty change. Wait till easton puts out a wheelset for 8000!

    but the rest of it keeps getting better for cheaper, so I'm not complaining.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digger90 View Post
    You want to try buying those Easton Haven carbon wheels if you live in the UK (like me) - they cost $3,200 !!!
    OUCH!!! But aren't Chain Reaction's prices competitively priced?

    If there's a truly novel functional product, then that might earn a more premium price. For example, the new XTR Shadow Plus for $250. It's $50 more than the non-Plus derailleur and, if it works like it claims, can eliminate the need for a chain tensioner hanging off the BB, save a bit of weight, and minus another part to have to maintain. A chain tensioner will cost at least $50 right there. So that's not bad. I'll just wait for an XT version to come out though. I don't like the idea of a carbon cage plus the XT will probably be about $100 less and do the same exact thing....IF they come out with an XT version.
    We Ride In God's Country!

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    OUCH!!! But aren't Chain Reaction's prices competitively priced?

    If there's a truly novel functional product, then that might earn a more premium price. For example, the new XTR Shadow Plus for $250. It's $50 more than the non-Plus derailleur and, if it works like it claims, can eliminate the need for a chain tensioner hanging off the BB, save a bit of weight, and minus another part to have to maintain. A chain tensioner will cost at least $50 right there. So that's not bad. I'll just wait for an XT version to come out though. I don't like the idea of a carbon cage plus the XT will probably be about $100 less and do the same exact thing....IF they come out with an XT version.
    Chain Reaction don't stock Haven Carbon's - but these days Chain Reaction aren't that cheap anymore anyway.

    Agreed on your 2nd point re genuine functional performance advantages... and reading DT's observations further up this thread the Haven Carbon's sound brilliant.

    However. there's a $2,700 price delta between Haven Carbons at $3,200 (UK prices) versus a reasonably good, light, quality wheelset such as Stans Crest/Hope Pro 2s which cost $500 (again, UK prices).

    I'd love some Haven Carbons, but who the heck can justify a $2,700 upgrade cost for a pair of MTB wheels? I'm not Roman Abramovich.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digger90 View Post
    Chain Reaction don't stock Haven Carbon's - but these days Chain Reaction aren't that cheap anymore anyway.

    Agreed on your 2nd point re genuine functional performance advantages... and reading DT's observations further up this thread the Haven Carbon's sound brilliant.

    However. there's a $2,700 price delta between Haven Carbons at $3,200 (UK prices) versus a reasonably good, light, quality wheelset such as Stans Crest/Hope Pro 2s which cost $500 (again, UK prices).

    I'd love some Haven Carbons, but who the heck can justify a $2,700 upgrade cost for a pair of MTB wheels? I'm not Roman Abramovich.
    Problem is, you're not in the income bracket where a $2,700 delta Just. Doesn't. Matter. Neither am I. I just got an email from my local very well stocked Liquor Store. "Today! Buy this 95 pt. Shiraz today!". Sadly, it's $60 on sale for a 750 ml. My comfort level is $8.99 for a 1.5 Liter.

    I bet they're sold out of that $60 Shiraz as I type. Also bet it's pretty tasty.
    Who's in charge, the thinker or the thought?

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    Kinda like gas prices. When gas was nearly $5/gallon, I felt like I was saving when I found a place for $4.85. Now that the price point has been set so high, I'm happy paying $3.75. Yet in 2000, gas was about $1.75.
    We Ride In God's Country!

  50. #50
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    It could be worse

    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    Kinda like gas prices. When gas was nearly $5/gallon, I felt like I was saving when I found a place for $4.85. Now that the price point has been set so high, I'm happy paying $3.75. Yet in 2000, gas was about $1.75.
    I shot these pictures over in Italy less than 2 weeks ago. Those fuel prices you see are for a liter. It takes 3.8 liters to equal 1 US gallon. Compare.........they are paying at least $2 a gallon more than we are.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ultra Expensive Parts, even in this down economy?-img_6593-copy.jpg  

    Ultra Expensive Parts, even in this down economy?-img_7079-copy.jpg  

    OUCH...!!!!!!

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCG
    Compare.........they are paying at least $2 a gallon more than we are.
    Works out closer to double, no? That 1.6 euro is about 2.2 usd per liter, or about 8.4 usd per gallon. But from what I remember, cars are used a bit differently over there . . . I don't know if it's really an apples-to-apples comparison?

    DCG: really nice urban/street shots!

    --Matt

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    Quote Originally Posted by renoirbud View Post
    I think that a few here are missing a pretty important point.

    Parts that are made now are way better then before.
    Exactly. A current day low end $300 fork works better than the $300 top of the line fork from 1992.

    Don't know exactly how much sram x5 gruppo costs but go try a bike in a shop with it. If you don't think it functions as well as 1989 XTR you may need your head examined.

    As for current quality, high end is still high end. I have a 4 year old sram X0 rear der. that exhibits no play whatsoever in the pivots. No reason to think that it wont last as long as the vaunted "old" shimano stuff the retro-grouches love to compare everything to. A lot of that old stuff lasts forever because its heavy as hell.

  53. #53
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    I'm definitely the person who is going to buy higher end components because I think they're lighter and they work better. But even with a real day job and a shop job to get employee pricing, upgrading to a new high-end (X.0/XX mix) 10 speed drivetrain is not something I wouldn't do without saving up for a while. And high end suspension forks are getting ridiculous. I'm not sure if the ridiculous prices on the high end stuff is due primarily to exchange rate, low production volumes, or higher profit margins. Though I'm sure it's a combination of all three.

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    It could be worse, I guess. We could be in Europe paying higher prices for gas AND bike parts. I'm sure they're paying way more than us.
    We Ride In God's Country!

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by renoirbud View Post
    You feel that the Deore 7 speed from 1989 is better then the current offerings?

    If thats the case, I am sure you can find some thumbshifters somewhere.

    Good luck.
    You missed the whole point because you bought into the marketing way too much man.

    It does not matter if the product is better or not. Of course it's better. Usually as new technology is introduced volume is low and production costs are high. Then as the technology ages it gets easier to produce and cheaper too so the volume goes up. Then it trickles down and becomes the next mid grade product as a new high end product comes in and takes it place in the top price bracket. That's how it's supposed to work. You can't keep charging what you originally charged for a product 3 years later and then add a new product above it that costs twice the price. The whole industry is gonna price itself out of business if that keeps up.


    just think about cars for a minute. A honda civic now is certainly better than one from 1999 but it costs pretty close to the same given some for inflation. Honda's premium product the lexus line is more expensive but a lexus today does not cost 400% of what a lexus cost 10 years ago even though the car today is amazing compared to 10 years ago. Now how does this fit in with your bike parts pricing logic? It doesn't.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanedawg View Post

    just think about cars for a minute. A honda civic now is certainly better than one from 1999 but it costs pretty close to the same given some for inflation. Honda's premium product the lexus line is more expensive but a lexus today does not cost 400% of what a lexus cost 10 years ago even though the car today is amazing compared to 10 years ago. Now how does this fit in with your bike parts pricing logic? It doesn't.
    FYI

    Honda's Premium line is called Acura and Lexus is part of Toyota.

    And about the 400% increase. They can and do. The 2012 Lexus LFA cost $375,000, and in 1989 the Lexus LS400 was less than 1/4 of that.

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    A lot of bike components now fall under a different tariff when being imported. Started last year, the US government is taking a considerable amount of tax on bicyle parts now. Someone could find the %, I remenber getting a letter last year from suppliers about the rapid price increase and why.

    And when Obama Care kicks in I am sure out gas prices will rise significantly from taxes to help pay for it. As a nation we are going to be taxed into poverty in 4 more years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    It could be worse, I guess. We could be in Europe paying higher prices for gas AND bike parts. I'm sure they're paying way more than us.
    In my country (Norway) we pay about 9,5 dollars a gallon. And we are the 10th biggest oil producer and the 3rd biggest exporter of oil in the world...and a set of edge rims costs about 3200 dollars.
    I buy Sram X9 and Stans Flow...

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by MariusB View Post
    In my country (Norway) we pay about 9,5 dollars a gallon. And we are the 10th biggest oil producer and the 3rd biggest exporter of oil in the world...and a set of edge rims costs about 3200 dollars.
    I buy Sram X9 and Stans Flow...
    Seems like your politicians are better thieves than ours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireLikeIYA View Post
    Chinese made Easton Carbon rims for the same price...
    They are made in Mexico afaik.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by MariusB View Post
    In my country (Norway) we pay about 9,5 dollars a gallon. And we are the 10th biggest oil producer and the 3rd biggest exporter of oil in the world...and a set of edge rims costs about 3200 dollars.
    I buy Sram X9 and Stans Flow...
    Do you know that your pension fund owns US$ 525 bn with only 5m members? So u have already half a million in your pockets.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by geosnow View Post
    They are made in Mexico afaik.
    Yeah, just across the border.

    New Easton Haven Carbon Wheels | Cyclingnews.com

    Morgan

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinning Lizard View Post
    A lot of bike components now fall under a different tariff when being imported. Started last year, the US government is taking a considerable amount of tax on bicyle parts now. Someone could find the %, I remenber getting a letter last year from suppliers about the rapid price increase and why.

    And when Obama Care kicks in I am sure out gas prices will rise significantly from taxes to help pay for it. As a nation we are going to be taxed into poverty in 4 more years.
    Lets compare the cost of health care to say waging wars that make us less safe in countries we don't belong in? How about we re-focus on our OWN people in the US instead of killing people in countries that don't even want us there. Why don't we feed our OWN poor, educate our OWN people instead of sending aid money over seas?

    Sorry off topic.

    On topic, if you don't want the bling don't buy it. Don't judge those who do and be thankful that the tech will trickle down to the lower level components, unlike trickle down economics, which don't work.
    Cholla Magnet

  64. #64
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    [QUOTE=Rzar;8611185]Lets compare the cost of health care to say waging wars that make us less safe in countries we don't belong in? How about we re-focus on our OWN people in the US instead of killing people in countries that don't even want us there. Why don't we feed our OWN poor, educate our OWN people instead of sending aid money over seas?

    Actually health care is much more expensive. I agree with not sending troops everywhere as well. Another big fail by Obama. Increased troops to Afganistan, Libya and now 3 different countries in Africa.

  65. #65
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    Interesting. This thread is still going and it's become a political debate. From bike parts to Obama.
    We Ride In God's Country!

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    Interesting. This thread is still going and it's become a political debate. From bike parts to Obama.
    Unfortunetly consumer prices are tied very close to the political climate. So politics were bound to get injected into this thread......

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life View Post
    Unfortunetly consumer prices are tied very close to the political climate. So politics were bound to get injected into this thread......
    I guess.

    I say, let's ride..cheap parts, expensive parts, junk parts, whatever parts.
    We Ride In God's Country!

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    Every time I pull up to the trailhead on my 10 year old Turners, clad in parts bolted on after months and years of scouring the classifieds, I become deeply depressed when I see guys pedalling around the parking lot on shiny new bikes with $400 cassettes and $2300 wheels and have to go home. Riding is no longer any fun for me.

  69. #69
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    Yes, but doesn't it make you fee better when you rail past them on the trail

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    Soon, I may be able to get a new Ferrari for $20K the way things are going!

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by polandspring88 View Post
    Every time I pull up to the trailhead on my 10 year old Turners, clad in parts bolted on after months and years of scouring the classifieds, I become deeply depressed when I see guys pedalling around the parking lot on shiny new bikes with $400 cassettes and $2300 wheels and have to go home. Riding is no longer any fun for me.
    Seriously?

    I think you're kidding.

    One of my best riding buddies is thrifty. Frugal. Prudent. I wish I was like him, in some ways. He rides an elderly Titus full-suspension bike that makes a lot of noise, has a couple jerry-rig fixes. He also has an old aluminum GT hard-tail that he's converted to a single speed. Someone GAVE HIM the bike. Here's the thing, he rips. I have a hard time keeping him behind me on some rides, and if he gets in front I have to work hard to keep up, going up or down hill. He'll take on the steepest ups that other people have to walk, and sometimes clean them. He's a die-trying kind of rider. I on the other hand have a relative embarrassment of bicycle riches, and I don't ride any better than him.

    Jim even got his nickname from his resourcefulness and thriftiness. When he started doing night rides with us, he still had his old incandescent NiteRider with ten-year-old battery from B.K. (before kids) It didn't make it through the rides. He went to Home Depot, found a Makita drill 9.6v battery for like 10 bucks, spliced the wires into the protective plastic cap and secured it with electrical tape. And he had light for rides. We've called him Makita Jim ever since. (He eventually got an affordable, modern light.)

    I love my Turner, have had four of them. Some were used, some were new. I'm happy to pay for them, if I can afford them, same goes for parts. I definitely use every trick in my book to pay less, but fairly. But you've got to hand it to a guy on old equipment who can still rip.

    Morgan

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    I don't think the OP was hating...

    Quote Originally Posted by 1soulrider View Post
    I must say that carbon rims have an undeniable advantage on the trail compared to alloy. Spending some time on ENVE and Easton carbon rims made me want that magic combo of super stiff light and strong for sure.

    That said, I still have a blast on my alloy wheel when I ride. That really is the point isn't it? Have fun and buy what you can afford/justify for your bike.

    If it makes you feel better go ahead and chuckle at the guy with the $2800 wheelset. Don't forget though, if they were to hand out those wheelsets (or $400 cogs) for free you know you would be in line to get a set.
    So don't be hating too hard on the expensive parts, it just looks like sour grapes.
    It's not like he said, "expensive parts suck," or "ALL expensive parts suck." He just seems to be questioning their worth.

    There are some who don't the difference between "buy" and "afford." Just because we can obtain an item doesn't mean we can afford it. IMO, If and only if you have all your other other bases covered (no credit card debt that can't be immediately paid off, savings for retirement, vacations, financial emergency cushion, children's educations, etc, etc, etc), can one truely afford a luxury item.
    Last edited by thesenator; 11-10-2011 at 12:40 PM. Reason: typos
    "I can only assume chan slap is what happens when you get assaulted by Jackie Chan. I don't think anybody can prevent that."

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