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  1. #1
    BBW
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    New question here. Turner sales, new designs every year and so on...

    can't we have a design for a few years and not change it EVERY year????
    The bike that I got for 2500$ is on sale for 1800$ now.... doesn't feel right. Why would someone pay 2500$ if he can wait a few months and pay 2/3 of the price? I really don't understand but I think it will hurt Turner big time
    I love my 5 Spot and I think Turner has the BEST CS in the industry but I think we are stepping into big brands capitalism like sales (every year we have something "new" or different so you know that you bike is the "old" model)
    How can I perceive that my bike is worth that much when we have such a brutal drop in price with those sales?
    Not bashing just random thoughts about where Turner is going with its marketing

    I do believe in innovation and making a product better but just randomly "upgrading" a bike every year doesn't help me to maintain the resale value of my bike? Maybe the figured out that people were not buying many bikes because the used ones where sought after too much and would hold their value?
    I always liked the idea of Santa Cruz... they have bike models not years. They made changes throughout the years but a bike would be essentially the same for 3 years at least and it would hold its value longer
    Please share your thoughts
    BBW. MS, RD

  2. #2
    Yes, that's fonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBW View Post

    I do believe in innovation and making a product better but just randomly "upgrading" a bike every year doesn't help me to maintain the resale value of my bike?
    You can't have it both ways, and I hardly think it would be cost effective to incorporate random upgrades. Actually I'm sure it eats into the bottom line a great deal to change a frame design after only 1 year. I know, it sucks that my '11 Spot isn't as cross compatible with every reservoir shock out there (as apparently the new line is), but 'innovate or die' is no BS.

  3. #3
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    The '10 5 Spot/Flux has been selling for 1/2 price in the UK with quite a few retailers for a while now, I'd never buy a current model year. I take advantage of the fact, so for me, it is a good thing. I wouldn't be on a Turner otherwise.

    Constant evolution is a good thing as long as you know when to take the next big step, so I welcome the changes. Then again, I don't look at my bike as an investment with resale value, i just ride the thing. Maybe one day I'll sell it, or maybe I won't - but selling it wasn't the reason I bought it.

  4. #4
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    Did you buy the bike to ride or did you buy the bike to sell it?

    Just like any other depreciating asset, you don't go out an buy a brand new model car/truck when they come out? Same concept.

    You can buy an Ibis... those never go on sale.

  5. #5
    BBW
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    I bought my bike to ride but as much of a bikew^ore as I am; I prefer not feeling that in only 1 year there is already a better new model. Not sure if you catch what I'm saying. Changes are good and welcome but every freakin year? you need to have a bike "stablished". the 09' 5 Spot has the same decal as the 12' but man they are so different that if you want to buy either you pretty much have to consider so many factors that is almost like deciding between 2 different bike models (ISG tabs, tubes, taco, bent bottom tube, head angle, color option, 142 x 12 vs 135 X 9QR/10)
    It also leaves the impression that the bike was not well thought from the beginning if you need to improve so much every year.. "why don't we add this year some....XYZ"
    Maybe tis is just exactly their marketing strategy to get more Turner frames in the hands of people that are not willing to pay MRSP? who knows, I'll keep riding and I love my 11' Spot
    BBW. MS, RD

  6. #6
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    How is this different than (almost) every single other bike component that is made? Wait until Sept and you can buy that years Fox Fork for 40% below what retail was up until that point. Fox announces some BS marketing hype about their latest feature, and people are desperate to get the latest and greatest. You can spend lots of time needlessly sweating stuff like this or you can just ride your bike.

  7. #7
    No Clue Crew
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    Complain that they're too expensive. Complain that they're on sale.

    I'm as big a bike wh0re as there is and I can't say I've ever once thought about resale value.

  8. #8
    Daniel the Dog
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    Carbon is the future of bike frames.

  9. #9
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    The smaller brands are fighting tooth and nail to stay in the same ballpark as the big brands as far as innovation. The big brand models keep getting lighter and stronger and cheaper. If a smaller brand went 3 production cycles without any "upgrades" they would be left in the dust, plain and simple.

    Mountain bikes are disposable products based purely upon intended use, and such be treated as such.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBW View Post
    I bought my bike to ride but as much of a bikew^ore as I am; I prefer not feeling that in only 1 year there is already a better new model. Not sure if you catch what I'm saying. Changes are good and welcome but every freakin year? you need to have a bike "stablished". the 09' 5 Spot has the same decal as the 12' but man they are so different that if you want to buy either you pretty much have to consider so many factors that is almost like deciding between 2 different bike models (ISG tabs, tubes, taco, bent bottom tube, head angle, color option, 142 x 12 vs 135 X 9QR/10)
    It also leaves the impression that the bike was not well thought from the beginning if you need to improve so much every year.. "why don't we add this year some....XYZ"
    Maybe tis is just exactly their marketing strategy to get more Turner frames in the hands of people that are not willing to pay MRSP? who knows, I'll keep riding and I love my 11' Spot
    I had a 09 spot then got a 11 spot,it would have been nice if the 11 model had come with 142 x 12 rear end,ISG tabs but DT missed the boat on that one.If Turner don't make these small changes he would be left behind.
    Its about the ride of Turner frames for me,not the latest fad,colour or resale value,yep its a bummer when the frame you get is cheaper 9 months down the line but i have had 9 months of fun and i did add a 10 flux blow out to my stable as well.

  11. #11
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    What Jaybo said.......

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    Carbon is the future of bike frames.
    Nuh-uh, I heard zircaloy is the wave of the future for mountain bikes...
    Killing it with close inspection.

  13. #13
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    Why is it any surprise there's a sale? *shrugs*

    This is about the time when everyone puts the 2011's on sale to make way for 2012's.
    2006 Turner 5 Spot
    2007 Trek 2100 ZR

  14. #14
    Ti is addictive
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    The economy has gone down the Sh*tter, manufacturers don't work on credit anymore (or they are stupid if they do)....so cash is king. When you need your next years frames to arrive on time, you need the cash to pay for them....Thus you see more of these sales unlike the old days.

    Also smaller companies like Turner gotta use the consumer for some R&D.....address failures and modify with next revision. He just does not sell the volumes like Trek and Speshy and even Sant Cruz. You guys always want DT to listen to you, so thus revisions in geometry, component adaptation, etc, results in ever constant yearly changes.
    "Can I put a Totem on a FTM?".....Originally Posted by All Mountain

  15. #15
    Mexican e-rider
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    I don't care that there's a sale, but I'm pissed at myself for not waiting to get my '11 Sultan at a nice discount and gotten nicer components (on the other hand I didn't know there was going to be a sale).

    For me, the problem with Sales is that a lot people come to expect them and don't buy at the "normal" price, so the manufacturer looses the revenue of people that would ordinarily buy at any time of the year if there weren't these steep price cuts.

    I realize that DT might need the cash to make room for the '12 inventory, but I've worked for a while in luxury marketing and you could argue that these steep price cuts only "cheapen" the product on the consumer's eyes. Better to throw in an upgrade or gift than discount your price.
    "Hell, the Titus Moderator can't pass a cantina without gettin' the shakes"

  16. #16
    BBW
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmadaleno View Post
    I don't care that there's a sale, but I'm pissed at myself for not waiting to get my '11 Sultan at a nice discount and gotten nicer components (on the other hand I didn't know there was going to be a sale).

    For me, the problem with Sales is that a lot people come to expect them and don't buy at the "normal" price, so the manufacturer looses the revenue of people that would ordinarily buy at any time of the year if there weren't these steep price cuts.

    I realize that DT might need the cash to make room for the '12 inventory, but I've worked for a while in luxury marketing and you could argue that these steep price cuts only "cheapen" the product on the consumer's eyes. Better to throw in an upgrade or gift than discount your price.
    Exactly!
    BBW. MS, RD

  17. #17
    Bigger is better!
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    I'd be very interested in any 2011 XXL Sultans on sale

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiEndo View Post
    You guys always want DT to listen to you, so thus revisions in geometry, component adaptation, etc, results in ever constant yearly changes.
    What he said.

    I broke my 09, and was planning on getting an 11 when they went on sale, but I'll get an 11 as warranty replacement. Now, do I sell the 09/11 and get the 12, or just wait? I want the slacker HTA on the Sultan, but with ISCG and the TA rear, I'm confused.

    I don't care if they change stuff from y/2/y, so long as what I'm on does what I purchased it to do.

  19. #19
    Bite Me.
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    Before I buy a new frame I figure out what I want, then look for a frame that meets my requirements. I don't let the manufacturers tell me what I want. That way it doesn't matter what model or year the bike is - I get a few years riding on it without swapping out every season because someone else decided to "improve" their design. Figure out the bike you want then ride it.
    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells

  20. #20
    T , V , & K Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmadaleno View Post
    Better to throw in an upgrade or gift than discount your price.

    No doubt.....throw in a new Fox 34 and a few XTR components with the 11 Sultan and I'm there ! Honestly , I sure don't see anything wrong with year end sales or changes or upgrades in frames.... it gives the peeps not requiring the latest and greatest a break in price ! TIG.
    Last edited by TIGMAN; 09-09-2011 at 07:43 AM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBW View Post
    can't we have a design for a few years and not change it EVERY year????
    The bike that I got for 2500$ is on sale for 1800$ now.... doesn't feel right. Why would someone pay 2500$ if he can wait a few months and pay 2/3 of the price? I really don't understand but I think it will hurt Turner big time
    I love my 5 Spot and I think Turner has the BEST CS in the industry but I think we are stepping into big brands capitalism like sales (every year we have something "new" or different so you know that you bike is the "old" model)
    How can I perceive that my bike is worth that much when we have such a brutal drop in price with those sales?
    Not bashing just random thoughts about where Turner is going with its marketing

    I do believe in innovation and making a product better but just randomly "upgrading" a bike every year doesn't help me to maintain the resale value of my bike? Maybe the figured out that people were not buying many bikes because the used ones where sought after too much and would hold their value?
    I always liked the idea of Santa Cruz... they have bike models not years. They made changes throughout the years but a bike would be essentially the same for 3 years at least and it would hold its value longer
    Please share your thoughts
    Aloha BBW,

    You bring up some good points here. I got to thinking and some ideas came to mind. It does cost a bunch of $$ to do the up front research and tooling to develop a new frame. It is always risky as well to make a change on something already successful. There must be a lot of $$ spent on all the unsuccessful "test mules", some how, some way the company will need to cover those costs. Now there's the promotional costs of advertising, traveling to promote etc.

    The 2nd issue I'm seeing here is that there are changes to the frame from one year to the next. I thought about this and yes, perhaps the newer frame rides better or has better features. In the end, the one I have certainly didn't decrease in ability any. I just got back from a trip to Vancouver Island, Whistler and Seattle. The bike climbed everything and descended everything I pointed the bike to. Maybe the new one would have been better but I had no less fun and have been having fun with this bike since I've put it together. I believe the changes Turner has put into his new frames are a result of listening to customer's needs and trying to meet those desires. Sometimes I think changes could be made to decrease manufacturing costs, still a benefit to the customer.

    So going back to the original questions you had, I think the initial costs are a result of having to pay the bills and putting food on his table. If costs are so low Turner Bikes goes out of business, we all loose. I don't think the cost of the frame being sold going down degrades the bike you have in any way unless you bought it specifically for "investment" and hoping to sell it for same or more money then you bought it for. I hope you've enjoyed the bike for the period of time you've had it so far.

    The changes that have been put into the newer frames are a result of improvements and I think a good thing. Maybe some of it is marketing because I used to ride a bike many years ago (Psycle Werks) that was WAY ahead of its time. They were a small company out of Laguna Hills, CA. They didn't make "changes" to their frames to follow the times and eventually went out of business (other reasons as well perhaps). I think Turner's done s a great job with keeping up with the times and desires of his customers.

    I hope your frustration with the cost (spent $$) and changes to the newer frames doesn't degrade your riding experiences any. It is a bike just like a car or other consumer items. The newer models will have improvements and the older models will go on sale. It doesn't make what you have worse then when you bought it. In fact, it is such a good thing that Turner still supports it's products going so far back. Not too many companies can or will do that.

    Sorry I went on so long with this. Enjoy the weekend, have a good ride...........

    Aloha,
    g

  22. #22
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    models

    So, to take this in the direction BBW is thinking, What exactly version of the 5 Spot are we on? Starting with 1.0 way back with a Romic and 125mm of travel...... I really don't care anymore about years, I just want to make changes when it is time. IF I had my way there would be changes middle of winter or spring or summer or whenever, is that any better? Really dunno. I wanted the 142 x 12 since the first RFX proto with dw-link but there was not enough support from wheels and other brands breaking down the curmudgeon factor. So, this was the year to do it. Piggy's, some of you want more performance than in inline shock, that is different so another change, more tooling. ISCG, easy, take some from the DHR file. Coulda done them all individually really, but not sure what the advantage or disadvantage to meting them out one per event, Sea Otter in spring, Press CAmp in June, big shows in late summer.


    Wow, that was a whole lotta nothing for info. Sorry. I should get back to getting ready for a ride this weekend. Gotta ride the TA on a 2012 see if I need to sell my 2011!

    DT

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by cutthroat View Post
    ... I figure out what I want, then look for a frame that meets my requirements. I don't let the manufacturers tell me what I want. ... Figure out the bike you want then ride it.
    /\ /\ /\ Bingo.

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    We get old because we quit riding.

  24. #24
    Ride 2 Work, Work 2 Ride!
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    So, to take this in the direction BBW is thinking, What exactly version of the 5 Spot are we on? Starting with 1.0 way back with a Romic and 125mm of travel...... I really don't care anymore about years, I just want to make changes when it is time. IF I had my way there would be changes middle of winter or spring or summer or whenever, is that any better? Really dunno. I wanted the 142 x 12 since the first RFX proto with dw-link but there was not enough support from wheels and other brands breaking down the curmudgeon factor. So, this was the year to do it. Piggy's, some of you want more performance than in inline shock, that is different so another change, more tooling. ISCG, easy, take some from the DHR file. Coulda done them all individually really, but not sure what the advantage or disadvantage to meting them out one per event, Sea Otter in spring, Press CAmp in June, big shows in late summer.


    Wow, that was a whole lotta nothing for info. Sorry. I should get back to getting ready for a ride this weekend. Gotta ride the TA on a 2012 see if I need to sell my 2011!

    DT
    hehe DT with the funny.
    "Don't give up, Never give up!"

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