Totem/Lyric/Pike - differing coil impressions- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    on a routine expedition
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    Totem/Lyric/Pike - differing coil impressions

    Since my Lyric 2Step problems, I've been considering switching to the coil version. Back when everything was rosy with my Lyric, I was considering a Totem for my other bike, as I really like the damping on my Lyric. Consequently, I've read a lot of posts on these forks and there seems to be a wide range of opinions on the performance of the coil versions, all from posters whose opinions I respect. I remember similar discussions regarding the Pikes.

    I'm wondering what causes this wide disparity. Is the performance of the forks from one to another that uneven? Inconsistent oil levels?

  2. #2
    Bodhisattva
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    Wish I knew & it's something I've wondered about as well.
    Maybe it's just the "Rock Shox" feel and it simply doesn't work for some folks.

    I've heard similar comments made about the 36 Vanilla.

    Zokes, on the other hand, always seem to be set up too soft for my liking which is why I haven't gone with a 66. Even the ones i jumped on in St.George this weekend, some of which belong to guys much bigger than me, seemed to go through their travel quicker than I like and then just ramp right up at the end. I prefer a more consistent feel with more stiffness.

    So maybe it just comes down to taste.....

  3. #3
    Just another FOCer
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    Maybe you could get your hands on a 1.5 66 RC2X for your "other bike."
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  4. #4
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    Scrublover and Kristian both like their coil versions, although scrubby is on a Domain which has Motion control damping instead of the Mission control, Kristian says his Lyric feels great and hasn't noticed the "too linear" feel some have mentioned. I'm getting ready to buy a Domain myself.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    Scrublover and Kristian both like their coil versions, although scrubby is on a Domain which has Motion control damping instead of the Mission control, Kristian says his Lyric feels great and hasn't noticed the "too linear" feel some have mentioned. I'm getting ready to buy a Domain myself.
    Don't do it Rick. Buy my slightly used 66SL instead.
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  6. #6
    rr
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Don't do it Rick. Buy my slightly used 66SL instead.
    I would need ETA for a Zoke, plus I just sold all 3 of my Zokes at veloswap and I'm gonna give some love to the local econony. What are you getting?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    I would need ETA for a Zoke, plus I just sold all 3 of my Zokes at veloswap and I'm gonna give some love to the local econony. What are you getting?
    Why, an '07 66SL ATA, of course!
    ****

  8. #8
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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    bingo! squish has had my '07 36 since friday night. if i dont get it back by tomorrow ill consider it traded out for a new am ata sl. weeeeeeeeeeeee! now to find some black lowers.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    bingo! squish has had my '07 36 since friday night. if i dont get it back by tomorrow ill consider it traded out for a new am ata sl. weeeeeeeeeeeee! now to find some black lowers.
    Whats he doing with it?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Why, an '07 66SL ATA, of course!
    Nice, did you succumb to Larry's pics he posted

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    Nice, did you succumb to Larry's pics he posted
    Let's just say it was the final straw, I've had the intent of getting the '07 or the internals for a while now.
    ****

  12. #12
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    weve been talkin bout a trade. we both liked the fox a bunch but i feel i need somethin that will allow me to climb these steeps we have as this bike may be the only rideable dually i have for some time. the zoke looks like the perfect canidate. well, except for those ugly ass lowers.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    weve been talkin bout a trade. we both liked the fox a bunch but i feel i need somethin that will allow me to climb these steeps we have as this bike may be the only rideable dually i have for some time. the zoke looks like the perfect canidate. well, except for those ugly ass lowers.
    I thought it had the adj travel, a buddy has the new 36 but maybe it's the Talas version, I agree you want the adj travel with a 160mm fork for trail riding, it's a must IMO.

  14. #14
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkullCrack
    I'm wondering what causes this wide disparity.
    Simple, people ride in different ways. You can't adjust the progressiveness of many forks, so you're stuck with whatever the factory has determined is "correct". One rider may get a plush ride and not bottom out. He's perfect for the fork. An agressive rider of the same weight will bottom it out, he has no choice but to increase the compression damping or increase the spring rate, and both of those solutions will make the fork harsher. This will ring true for many different kinds of riders on many different kinds of terrain. There's a "one size fits all" approach by some manufacturers as to this aspect of fork tuning, and as long as that is the case, you'll see a wide disparity of results and reviews.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  15. #15
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    nope. just the talus and i here theres danger in them thar hills.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkullCrack
    I'm wondering what causes this wide disparity. Is the performance of the forks from one to another that uneven? Inconsistent oil levels?
    I think it's going to take some time is all, and hopefully Push will come through for the Rock Shox.

    I still haven't examined and replaced the oil in the Totem yet, will do this week and report.

    All these dampers are so different that of course they will all never feel the same, the question is can it be tuned to suit the rider. I don't have enough spare time myself so a fork that off the shelf works is going to make me happiest, and if I can figure out how to tune it myself, all the better also. If Push can help, better still.

    The only thing I can say about the totem so far is I weigh 153lbs geared up with pack and water and the 160-180 spring is feeling okay. I bet I'm getting used to the chassis stiffness also.

  17. #17
    No, that's not phonetic
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    There are big diffs between individual forks, and oil levels must play a role. I had a Pike coil. Plush but too linear, bottomed, stiffer spring, bottomed and felt harsh, sold it. I rode Crash's Pike coil. Harsh ride, no chance of getting full travel, weird. I think some forks do have whacked oil levels. I know mine were right. Also I noticed Barny was not getting full travel on her Dual Air Pike so I dumped all the oil and refilled. With the same air pressures she started getting closer to full travel. Pikes can suffer from a sort of hydro-lock if the MC damper is too full, but this is not the same as "tuning" the oil height for bottoming protection in the coils. You can do this in the Air forks via oil on top of the air piston. I'd get a Totem air once they get the seals sorted.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  18. #18
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    Looks like I'll have a chance to try out the coil version of the Lyrik. I took my 2step to the shop today. Rock Shox told them they won't have the parts to fix my fork for about a month, so they're sending me a "loaner" coil U-turn. Nice! While it's disappointing to have something go wrong with a new component, this kind of customer service goes a long way towards making me feel better about buying RS stuff in the future.

    As a bonus, taking off the fork gave me a chance to install this:



    Now my Pack won't feel so OTB when all the 07 RFXs start hitting the trails around here.
    Last edited by Marshall Willanholly; 10-30-2006 at 04:01 PM.

  19. #19
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    wasn't there a discussion about the lack of consistency in coil spring rates? I recall it was in regards to rear coils, but wasn't it something like a 10% difference either way?

    again, it all comes down to tunability, how do you recognize what a fork needs, can it be done with oil, air, shims, drilling holes in the carts, or how about those Fox 40 springs that Go-Ride sells? That reminds me that I need to compare spring lengths of the totem and 40...

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    Scrublover and Kristian both like their coil versions, although scrubby is on a Domain which has Motion control damping instead of the Mission control, Kristian says his Lyric feels great and hasn't noticed the "too linear" feel some have mentioned. I'm getting ready to buy a Domain myself.
    I also really like my Lyrik coil. I have had some time now to mess with the settings and have found a sweet spot. Now Im just waiting for the stiffer springs to arrive.

    Scrublover is getting a Lyrik. He said that he ran into some money and he is going to sell the Domain, so you may want to give him a call about the one he is selling.

  21. #21
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    I've got a Totem coil on my Highline and am very pleased with it. The Totem replaced a 888 rc2x, and imo, feels just as stiff. The stock coils feel just right, without having to add or remove shims. Just a little adjustment of the high and low speed compression, and it was ready to rip. Took it on a 6 mile st/fr climb followed by 6 miles of screaming descent with waterbars, babyhead rockgardens, stream crossings, and overall downhill fun. The fork rocked, the Highline rocked ( although I did somehow manage to lose one of the m6 bolts holding my brake caliper to the fork ), life is good. Its all about the Highlife! BTW, I weigh 200lbs, if anyone cares.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by hambone
    BTW, I weigh 200lbs
    stock spring . that ain't right.

    did you switch the rear shock to a 8.5?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by airwreck
    stock spring . that ain't right.

    did you switch the rear shock to a 8.5?
    No, running it at 8.75 still. The bike feels good. I haven't bottomed out the fork yet, even dropping 4' to flat several times. Came close, but no "thunk"

  24. #24
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Put a zip tie on the stanchion. I'm 185, maybe 195 suited up and bottomed the coil Totem on the Interbike Highline about a half dozen times on Amasa Back, and I knew it.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  25. #25
    M070R-M0U7H FR3NCHI3
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    Quote Originally Posted by airwreck
    stock spring . that ain't right.

    did you switch the rear shock to a 8.5?
    yeah I was going to say! on theory, at 200lbs the stock totem should be too soft! Iím 160lbs on a good day and just got one and was told that the stock springs should be good for MY weight! I guess we'll have to wait and see once I get to try it out!

  26. #26
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    Rick, don't be silly. What you need is a 66 SL ATA. I've got two rides on mine so far, and I love it. The ATA feature is very nice. But it's the buttery smooth travel, and piece of mind that makes it all worth it.

  27. #27
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    I'm glad you're getting good customer service

    But, I think Rock Shox realizes if they don't generate some good press regarding the Lyrik and their 2 Step system, they'll have a disaster on their hands. I think that RS knows the importance of the MTBR.com forums and reviews. No one is going to want to spend 800-1000 on a fork that they don't have any confidence in. I wish they had a 150-160mm Pike at like 4.5lbs for an all mountain fork.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkullCrack
    Nice! While it's disappointing to have something go wrong with a new component, this kind of customer service goes a long way towards making me feel better about buying RS stuff in the future.

    As a bonus, taking off the fork gave me a chance to install this:
    "And I shout that your all fakes and you should have seen the look on your face"

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenglow
    But, I think Rock Shox realizes if they don't generate some good press regarding the Lyrik and their 2 Step system, they'll have a disaster on their hands. I think that RS knows the importance of the MTBR.com forums and reviews. No one is going to want to spend 800-1000 on a fork that they don't have any confidence in. I wish they had a 150-160mm Pike at like 4.5lbs for an all mountain fork.
    I think it unlikely that RS is providing good customer service because of MTBR, but rather because it's the right thing to do. They had some bad seals & evidently the problem has been addressed in a remarkably expedient manner.

    MTBR really represents a very small, albeit vocal, proprotion of the MTB community.

  29. #29
    rr
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Chingon
    Rick, don't be silly. What you need is a 66 SL ATA. I've got two rides on mine so far, and I love it. The ATA feature is very nice. But it's the buttery smooth travel, and piece of mind that makes it all worth it.
    It looks very nice for sure, the Domain will be much cheaper though and I think I'm getting a hookup thru RS locally, plus I really like the Revelation I put on my Burner, the damping and U-Turn are both nicer than the Marathon XC with TST and TAS that I was running, and it's stiffer. The Domain has many features that I'm looking for compared to the Z1 I was running, bigger/stiffer, more travel, adj travel, maxle, plus if I have a problem I have a connection locally to go to.

    I know the 66 line is nicer with more features but I wasn't impressed overall after riding 3 diff Zoke models in the last few years, plus Zoke made me pay for the TST repair after I took it to a shop, that pissed me off.
    Last edited by rr; 10-31-2006 at 08:32 AM.

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