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Thread: Stirin it up

  1. #1
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    Stirin it up

    Since Pivot is obviously an inferior bike company I have a small question.
    How in the hell are the able to produce a full lineup of really nice bikes? They have it all. 4" XC, 5.5" trail, 6.5" AM/FR light, 4" 29er, and within the next few weeks a full blown DH rig.
    Where's the DHR? And for goodness sake why does DT feel there is no mkt for a 6-7" aggro trailbike?
    I really think your missing the boat. I'm mean seriously, C'mon, a three bike lineup. Booorrrrring!

  2. #2
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    Don't forget the Cyclops

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    All very good questions.....

  4. #4
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    But but...yeah, I got nothing
    Last edited by EVERYUSERNAMEISTAKEN; 04-19-2010 at 11:28 PM.

  5. #5
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    Carefull Timberrr, you could be banned for such heresy.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIMBERRR
    I really think your missing the boat. I'm mean seriously, C'mon, a three bike lineup. Booorrrrring!
    Nailed it! Well unless you only ride XC, then you love the line up

  7. #7
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    Naw, the model line up is huge! Three xc bikes, and a dh frame that no privateer can afford to buy. What's the dhr gonna cost? Three grand at least.
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  8. #8
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    Visited the tent at SOC. DHR in a couple months, RFX by the end of the year and "something" @ IB. Sounded like the "something" is full CF.

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    Besides the obvious (and weak) troll-bait here... How much longer has CC been putting DW Link bikes out the door than DT and only has 4 models, with a prototype DH bike coming out soon? Once the DHR ships, that will put things even. Because no matter what you've deluded yourself into thinking, I sincerely doubt that the DH bike will be ridden by anybody that's not part of the new Pivot/Pinkbike team. If they were that close to production, I'm pretty sure that they would have, at the very least, been showing pre-production bikes at Sea Otter.

    And jeezus! I love it when you "All Mountain" riders get your panties in a bunch when company A doesn't have the bike you want. Because it's not like there aren't a zillion other companies building bikes (or having bikes built) in that category. Maybe it's not as big of a market as you guys have convinced yourselves it is. Deal with it. Right now, I own a 429 because Turner doesn't have a shorter travel 29er. And you know what? I'm happy I had other options. The 429 is a great bike.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by orthorex
    Visited the tent at SOC. DHR in a couple months, RFX by the end of the year and "something" @ IB. Sounded like the "something" is full CF.
    By the end of the year??? Sounds like some subterfuge going on.....

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2TurnersNotEnough
    Besides the obvious (and weak) troll-bait here... How much longer has CC been putting DW Link bikes out the door than DT and only has 4 models, with a prototype DH bike coming out soon? Once the DHR ships, that will put things even. Because no matter what you've deluded yourself into thinking, I sincerely doubt that the DH bike will be ridden by anybody that's not part of the new Pivot/Pinkbike team. If they were that close to production, I'm pretty sure that they would have, at the very least, been showing pre-production bikes at Sea Otter.

    And jeezus! I love it when you "All Mountain" riders get your panties in a bunch when company A doesn't have the bike you want. Because it's not like there aren't a zillion other companies building bikes (or having bikes built) in that category. Maybe it's not as big of a market as you guys have convinced yourselves it is. Deal with it. Right now, I own a 429 because Turner doesn't have a shorter travel 29er. And you know what? I'm happy I had other options. The 429 is a great bike.
    Looks like the obviously weak troll bait still got a reaction out of you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Looks like the obviously weak troll bait still got a reaction out of you.
    Yeah, I thought about that before I started typing. But I should have clarified that it's weak in a factual sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2TurnersNotEnough
    Yeah, I thought about that before I started typing. But I should have clarified that it's weak in a factual sense.
    Touche' on you this time!
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  14. #14
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    Insn't the Cyclops all mountain enough???

    My guess, at this point the DHR is experiencing technical dificulties.

  15. #15
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    How profitable is Pivot versus Turner bikes? It doesn't matter how many models you make if they don't sell! I have no clue BTW - but would love to know how many units each company sells and what their P&L's look like.

  16. #16
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    Didn't ya know its all about 29ers and carbon.

    Trolls or not! whatever I maybe biting, but not hating, I don;t get this cost thing, ya have to sometimes make things that do cost money to make money, its always about getting your message out, marketing etc. Ya have to have a catalog maybe not every in between model but if ya have a clear purpose and don;t pander to the masses of misconception its not hard to have lineup that fills each side of the spectrum nowadays, Turners have also always been about what ya dress them up with, build light go light build same frame with heavy duty comps and go hard, they always had as much if not more flexibility than any other frame in each category because of this and still did it as well as anyone.

    Look at these Spots being refurbished many will ride as well if not better than many carbon and other fancy link bikes out there now, with a sus tune, new comps ad lick of Turners refurb.

    As to lineups there's many examples of similar bikes at similar prices still being made in those categories and successfully and also being regularly updated, so something else is wrong, imo the switch to DWL cost allot more in tooling and setup and with economic times the timing was bad that said there is no good time and when things are down they become opportunities if you can hang in there, but its a too way streak, if you back off from ya market and they feel unsupported they will go elsewhere after all its a bike.

    I'm seeing many people who used to be here riding other brands it happens used and that cool but its also lost opportunity and its harder to get someone back than it is to attract new people, but the the value of existing is often way more, where allot fo start up companies go down over time.

    This is not new its been raised for ages unfortunately those who are really passionate about the brand are being driven off by having an opinion, that is not mainstream here instead of viewd as we care and are concerned about the direction.

    For me I invest in a brand rightly or wrongly, I get passionate about it, and I try to align myself with that brands direction and culture, when that disappears well what ya left with,.

    If Ive learn t any thing about my last 2.5 years its about staying true to ya self, and finding out who ya real friends are, the people who tell you the truth not what you want to here! It may not be always factual what people say because they don't always have the facts, but I respect someones genuine honesty even if I don;t like hearing it because it shows they care enough to put themselves out there, time shows everything and everyone eventually true friends, enemies, freinmies the last the worst kind, cause they pretend to be friends but are always cutting you down or misleading you. .

    Interesting there some others around who seem to be following the way of old .g Turner way CS and culture and innovation, bike innovation very successfully with out 29ers or carbon, just saying, not hating that's my perception right or wrong.

    Ive always wanted to see Turner do well and still do, unlike a few and many who have tried to get me on there hate bandwagon which I won't , its saddens me to see this, I really do hope DT and Turner bounce back and its s only the current climate, I just hope DT gets back on his own trails again! Sometimes seems like someone else riding his rig?

    DTs strength and point of difference to many others in my eyes was his functional designs that were leading without focus on gimmicks, something the rest of the industry focus on, its why I came back to Turner again and again, I got sick of that by other brands. Another reason why I leant towards a frame only even at a higher cost.
    But I'm not into cost just because the latest thing is what people perceive as new.

    Carbon for example has been around for years, its not new, my 94 Supa V had full carbon one peace swingarm, a work of art but a total pain in the arse!, I did love that bike though. Point is imo TBikes need a settle down period after the DWL change which I support, not originally for these very reasons, I'm not being smart but I said it in the will he won;t he wars read any of those old threads! It's also not about being right, I;m not a right fighter, I'm wrong alot. But I am as passionate as anyone here and want to see success but also a pint of difference from the sickness of sameness!

    That said

    I love my DHR, as I knew I always would, each Turner for me has been better than the rest as each time I get back close to my roots in riding, I miss my RFX and miss the old days here when good times and people were had.
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by whodaphuck
    By the end of the year??? Sounds like some subterfuge going on.....
    This is not the RFX that you may be thinking of.

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    excuses

    We launched with 3 models and have been in development of the DHR for about a year and a half. I have made it very clear I do NOT want DHRs in 2 pieces or with linkage warranty issues, this being the first 'mini link' DH bike for Turner Bikes I want it to be solid outa the gate. Don't you?

    Yep, only 3 models in production to date. But it aint like I have been sitting still. The RFX is now in it's 3rd iteration. The first version with the bendy tubes was whined about by some so much Kleenex stock went up. the we built a proto that most would find too close to the Highline and that would limit sales, and the whole RFX thing has been beat to death. It WILL be Made in USA and it will be expensive. Sorry if you can't handle it Rene, so buy a Banshee and tell us how great it is. I would get you one at dealer cost if I knew which Turner Bikes dealer was a Banshee dealer just to help you out as it does not seem you really want to spend what it takes to get a new RFX and the full technical breakdown would be refreshing instead of Especulating. Ifthe findings are so amazing who knows.

    No carbon in the works so you can keep guessing.

    DT

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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    Sorry if you can't handle it Rene, so buy a Banshee and tell us how great it is. I would get you one at dealer cost if I knew which Turner Bikes dealer was a Banshee dealer just to help you out as it does not seem you really want to spend what it takes to get a new RFX and....
    DT
    No sweat Dave, I'll let you know what you're missing out on.
    No help needed with the price, got it below MSRP. It's a little late getting here, but it will arrive way before the 2011 rfx will.
    And no thanks, I can't spend $2800 on a frame, no matter how super-tech it is.
    Did you hire anothe engineer yet?
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    No carbon in the works so you can keep guessing.

    DT
    Sweet, I am gonna barf if I see one more "new" carbon ubber-bling frame. They just don't appeal to the average Joe
    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    that's the stupidest idea this side of pinkbike.

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    Fine, I'll skip the Cyclocross (or should I?) and wait for Interbike. Damn, there better be something for me.

    429 to replace the Titus in the meantime?

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    I'm with you, TA...seems we have a lot of bitter people spewing their venom these days. I'm still hoping for an RFX 29er though.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    It WILL be Made in USA
    No carbon in the works so you can keep guessing.
    Best news I've heard in awhile.

    As for Renny, I'll give him first dibs on my DW RFX in a year or two so he can rejoin the Turner fold. Is black okay again?
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by miles e
    Is black okay again?
    Silly question


  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForestHorse
    I'm with you, TA...seems we have a lot of bitter people spewing their venom these days. I'm still hoping for an RFX 29er though.
    Carbon RFX 29er FTW!


  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    The RFX is now in it's 3rd iteration. The first version with the bendy tubes was whined about by some so much Kleenex stock went up. the we built a proto that most would find too close to the Highline and that would limit sales, and the whole RFX thing has been beat to death.
    Just a point of clarification: You're saying the 3rd iteration of the DW RFX right? That means the last proto is in the "Recycle Bin"?
    ¡Geaux Tigers! - ¡Visca el Barça!

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    RFX proto

    The thing is destined for the wall for sure. I may let a couple people ride it, but it has so many issues that it is an educational stepping boulder. It proved out the geo and that floating front derailers are picky pieces of the bike puzzle. I know, you gnar core dudes will ride it as a 1x10, but I have to design for a wider audience.

    DT

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    I think will start saving my pennies for the RFX again (after being bummed about its demise)... totally stoked to hear the RFX project's got momentum again.

    Edit:

    Will the 3rd proto retain the geo/travel #'s from the last proto or will they be changed? Still going tapered or 1.5? X12 for the hub?
    Last edited by cheezwhip; 04-20-2010 at 10:10 PM.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    The thing is destined for the wall for sure. I may let a couple people ride it, but it has so many issues that it is an educational stepping boulder. It proved out the geo and that floating front derailers are picky pieces of the bike puzzle. I know, you gnar core dudes will ride it as a 1x10, but I have to design for a wider audience.

    DT
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  30. #30
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    Hey DT, just want to chat about 29ers / Life and being better in the sack.

    Hey DT, may l ask, do you like 29ers or are they a necessary evil in todays market? They must be a pain in the ring to design and get around those big bloody wheels, long stays, lack of good fork options etc. Do you ride 29ers often? They certainly arent for everyone and please dont listen to the calls for a DH, Freeride, 6 inch 29er with HShmit - thats why we have downhill bikes. Please dont get me started on carbon - not required in the real world. At 6.4 l must say that 29ers have been a breath of fresh air for me and currently have your TNT and DWL Sultans - both very different beasts, not perfect but either am l (it is a bike). My next purchase will be a 29er hardtail - steel or Ti - to simplify and get back to basics - been spoit by suspension for too long. I run the DW Sultan with CCDB not for crazy e-stunts rather to have the adjustability in the rear for my size, weight and to get alittle more tunability out of the DWL. My pick of your current lineup would be the Flux with CCDB and 20 TA fork but then l would be on those silly little wheels.
    Really like the Cycle cross frame - would not know what to do with it - but hell it has created a stir. People need to lighten up alittle and stop employing a bicycle brand to forefill some void in their lives. It must be exhausting to run a bike company and constantly explaining every move, marketing strategy, business model, direction, creation, bowel movement to pacify the marauding hordes and e-linch mobs who believe it should all happen to their expectations. I have no interest in grilling you about your business and simply hope you and every other manufacturer can keep us supplied with bikes and make a great living out of what you do/love. The smiles - well that is up to us.
    Hell l have owned three Turners, three Intense's, a Titus and a Ventana - would like to buy a Knolly and Nicolai if they did 29er and am looking at Singular and Blacksheep. Try different stuff at different times for different reasons. None of the other manufactures have made me a better rider, happier, better in the sack or more appealling to the opposite sex regardless of the marketing hype - and neither has Turner. You are off the hook DT.

    P.S - Oh can l please get my blood sample back Mr Turner has l will be selling my soul for Ti curves without suspension.

    Have a good day and say Hi to Jared - he was friendly to me once.

    JD

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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnd663
    it must be exhausting to run a bike company and constantly explaining every move, marketing strategy, business model, direction, creation, bowel movement to pacify the marauding hordes and e-linch mobs who believe it should all happen to their expectations.
    That's what I have been thinking for a looong time... Props to DT for withstanding the forum crap

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnd663
    Hey DT, may l ask, do you like 29ers or are they a necessary evil in todays market? They must be a pain in the ring to design and get around those big bloody wheels, long stays, lack of good fork options etc. Do you ride 29ers often? They certainly arent for everyone and please dont listen to the calls for a DH, Freeride, 6 inch 29er with HShmit - thats why we have downhill bikes. Please dont get me started on carbon - not required in the real world. At 6.4 l must say that 29ers have been a breath of fresh air for me and currently have your TNT and DWL Sultans - both very different beasts, not perfect but either am l (it is a bike). My next purchase will be a 29er hardtail - steel or Ti - to simplify and get back to basics - been spoit by suspension for too long. I run the DW Sultan with CCDB not for crazy e-stunts rather to have the adjustability in the rear for my size, weight and to get alittle more tunability out of the DWL. My pick of your current lineup would be the Flux with CCDB and 20 TA fork but then l would be on those silly little wheels.
    Really like the Cycle cross frame - would not know what to do with it - but hell it has created a stir. People need to lighten up alittle and stop employing a bicycle brand to forefill some void in their lives. It must be exhausting to run a bike company and constantly explaining every move, marketing strategy, business model, direction, creation, bowel movement to pacify the marauding hordes and e-linch mobs who believe it should all happen to their expectations. I have no interest in grilling you about your business and simply hope you and every other manufacturer can keep us supplied with bikes and make a great living out of what you do/love. The smiles - well that is up to us.
    Hell l have owned three Turners, three Intense's, a Titus and a Ventana - would like to buy a Knolly and Nicolai if they did 29er and am looking at Singular and Blacksheep. Try different stuff at different times for different reasons. None of the other manufactures have made me a better rider, happier, better in the sack or more appealling to the opposite sex regardless of the marketing hype - and neither has Turner. You are off the hook DT.

    P.S - Oh can l please get my blood sample back Mr Turner has l will be selling my soul for Ti curves without suspension.

    Have a good day and say Hi to Jared - he was friendly to me once.

    JD

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    LOVE IT! WELL SAID MY FRIEND!

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by miles e
    Best news I've heard in awhile.

    As for Renny, I'll give him first dibs on my DW RFX in a year or two so he can rejoin the Turner fold. Is black okay again?
    Black is fine, and purchasing used is my preference, since I've become a poor, whining bastard like Jaybo.
    I haven't "left the turner fold" in ownership; rode my 5 spot yesterday after work. No, it did not support turner to do so, as I bought it used. I didn't come across any other riders so that I could tell them how nice my spot is, so I didn't spread any sales stoke. Sorry airwreck.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by onei'dsneak
    The worst advice is sometimes the best because it's often times not logical. Many things have been born from the opportunity to counter bad logic.
    Welcome back MTB. It's all clear to me now.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by onei'dsneak
    You guys have it all wrong. This is a forum for riders and reviews (good/bad). If someone wants to sprew who are we, or DT for that matter, to tell them what they can/cannot say? Hello, this is still America. Again, you guys act like this is DT's board. He may pay for the right to have this board, but it's still a consumer review site in the end. We owe him nothing but feedback, period.

    I don't think he takes much of this to heart anyway. Sure it's frustrating to hear people complain, but input in any form is always valuable if you look deep enough. The worst advice is sometimes the best because it's often times not logical. Many things have been born from the opportunity to counter bad logic.
    Hey, I have one supporter!
    ****

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by onei'dsneak
    He may pay for the right to have this board, but it's still a consumer review site in the end. We owe him nothing but feedback, period.
    .
    No, you owe him the respect he deserves for coming on to this retard pit and dealing with the layers of stupid **** thats constantly being spewed out by the "homers" and eTards who think they know what they are talking about. Its commendable that he not only continues to come on this place and speak DIRECTLY TO YOU. I am just amazed that he doesn't start putting bombs in his bikes to help Darwin out, considering the level of thought put into some of the things posted.

    As for the three bike lineup, I would bet that XC and trail riding outsell All mountain 10-1, and DH 20-1. When the RFX comes out (if), it will sell. Same with the DHR. Turner is waiting until they are ready and Dave feels they are perfect, and I can respect that. I guess thats why they will cost what they do, but I dunno for sure. To be honest, from what I have seen of the bikes I am not quite sure why they cost what they do. Despite my wanton lust of it, I can't afford an RFX, so it doesn't much matter to me. I just dig turner. Dave, if you chuck a 1.5 on there people can tweak the head angle to suit them too. Just a thought.

    Side note: whoever suggested the 29er RFX, I really hope that was a joke.
    Stuff.

  37. #37
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    Jeff, it's allways a pleasure to hear/read your level headed, even-keeled opinions and input. You were a total a s s hole the first time I ever had the pleasure to deal with you, and you appear to still be the same.
    ****

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by dropmachine.com
    No, you owe him the respect he deserves
    +1................

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Jeff, it's allways a pleasure to hear/read your level headed, even-keeled opinions and input. You were a total a s s hole the first time I ever had the pleasure to deal with you, and you appear to still be the same.
    Does this mean we won't be BFFs? Damn.
    Stuff.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by dropmachine.com
    I am just amazed that he doesn't start putting bombs in his bikes to help Darwin out, considering the level of thought put into some of the things posted
    You gotta love when someone puts himself on a pedestal, than proceeds to drop some knowledge like:

    Quote Originally Posted by dropmachine.com
    Dave, if you chuck a 1.5 on there people can tweak the head angle to suit them too. Just a thought.
    I imagine DT could have figured that one out on his own, even if he somehow missed the first two hundred people that mentioned it here.

    PS: you can do the same thing with a tapered steerer.
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by onei'dsneak
    Respect is earned, not given away. When it's given away it's called "kissin' arse". Bragging about a "something special" at Sea Otter after scrapping a most anticipated frame and then delivering a cyclocross bike shows exactly how much respect he has for the kiss arse crowd (read, Homer Elite) and how much he enjoys punching the buttons. He deserved it. As for the rest of us who await the "second coming of christ", he's just using very valuable marketing techniques .
    I am not a homer in any way, but I call complete BS on that. I have a ton of respect for Dave as he comes on here and speaks directly to the people here and fills you guys in on whats going on with info nobody here actually deserves. How is that not respect worthy? It shows he respects his consumers enough to make an effort to speak to them. Not many other companies can do that.

    Your point about the RFX vs the Cyclocross bike is completely ignorant. Just because he is making a bike YOU don't seem to want doesn't mean he is disrespecting his consumer base. Far from it. If Dave is making most of his money off XC and trail riders, and knows that he can sell more Cyclocross frames than RFX frames, then its a no brainer isn't it? Turner is a business after all, not a fan club.

    If the RFX is scrapped, its likely because Dave knows its going to be a damn hard sell at the price that its at. Not everybody is as in love with Turner as this forum, and I know many people would choose a cheaper bike with similar performance over the RFX. I have only seen photos of the new RFX, but I sure can't understand why it costs what it does. There are other US made frames with hydroforming and fancy bits that cost less, so I don't get why the RFX is so much. Thats not to say that there aren't reasons. Of course there are reasons. I just don't know them. I would imagine many other buyers would be in the same boat.
    Stuff.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by dropmachine.com
    No, you owe him the respect he deserves for coming on to this retard pit and dealing with the layers of stupid **** thats constantly being spewed out by the "homers" and eTards who think they know what they are talking about. Its commendable that he not only continues to come on this place and speak DIRECTLY TO YOU. I am just amazed that he doesn't start putting bombs in his bikes to help Darwin out, considering the level of thought put into some of the things posted.
    Pot calling the kettle black here.

    I've shown Dave plenty of respect prior to yesterday. I don't put manufacturers on pedestals; I'm one, and my customers don't. The model that "the customer is allways right" is still, for the most part, the most effective way to stay in bussiness.

    I would relish Dave in even more respect if he comes out in the next whatever amount of days and says. "Fuk it, no rfx, no dhr; I can't afford to make them, my bread and butter is in the three bike line up I have now. Deal with it".
    ****

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by miles e
    I imagine DT could have figured that one out on his own, even if he somehow missed the first two hundred people that mentioned it here.

    PS: you can do the same thing with a tapered steerer.
    First, was more a tongue in cheek jab at how everybody is telling Dave how to run his business/ build his bikes/ shave his head/ brush his teeth etc...my fault for not putting a smiley i guess.

    Second, while you can do something similar with a tapered steerer, I don't think or haven't seen anything that can do it as well as a 1.5 solution, while not raising the front up at the same time. I think its KS or somebody that has a kit that can drop the HA 2degrees, all internally? Now thats neat.
    Stuff.

  44. #44
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    ... and if we just ... Hmmm

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TIMBERRR
    I really think your missing the boat. I'm mean seriously, C'mon, a three bike lineup. Booorrrrring!



    Well another way to look at it is quality not quantity. Dave could have rushed both the RFX and DHR product in order to make a buck but seems to care more about the quality of the product more than money.
    I find there is nothing boring about my Sultan or RFX in any way. If Dave needs more time to better develop and integrate DW into the RFX and DHR so the products live up to the brand name then so be it. I've been waiting for the new RFX for quite some time. I will continue to wait. If it's more expensive than other frames so be it! It's been my experience that you get what you pay for.
    Missing the boat??? Hmmm. What does the name Turner mean?? C'mon!!

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by dropmachine.com
    I am not a homer in any way, but I call complete BS on that. I have a ton of respect for Dave as he comes on here and speaks directly to the people here and fills you guys in on whats going on with info nobody here actually deserves. How is that not respect worthy? It shows he respects his consumers enough to make an effort to speak to them. Not many other companies can do that.

    Your point about the RFX vs the Cyclocross bike is completely ignorant. Just because he is making a bike YOU don't seem to want doesn't mean he is disrespecting his consumer base. Far from it. If Dave is making most of his money off XC and trail riders, and knows that he can sell more Cyclocross frames than RFX frames, then its a no brainer isn't it? Turner is a business after all, not a fan club.

    If the RFX is scrapped, its likely because Dave knows its going to be a damn hard sell at the price that its at. Not everybody is as in love with Turner as this forum, and I know many people would choose a cheaper bike with similar performance over the RFX. I have only seen photos of the new RFX, but I sure can't understand why it costs what it does. There are other US made frames with hydroforming and fancy bits that cost less, so I don't get why the RFX is so much. Thats not to say that there aren't reasons. Of course there are reasons. I just don't know them. I would imagine many other buyers would be in the same boat.
    how are you any different form the "homers" you are complaining about? since your beef is the same which is that the bike is "too expensive" and you are posting on here that "you don't get it" and "you cant afford one" "other US made bikes are available for less blah blah blah" you sound like the ncotine crazed alcoholic from NM to me..........

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by dropmachine.com
    First, was more a tongue in cheek jab at how everybody is telling Dave how to run his business/ build his bikes/ shave his head/ brush his teeth etc...my fault for not putting a smiley i guess.

    Second, while you can do something similar with a tapered steerer, I don't think or haven't seen anything that can do it as well as a 1.5 solution, while not raising the front up at the same time. I think its KS or somebody that has a kit that can drop the HA 2degrees, all internally? Now thats neat.
    Fair enough. I just found it ironic the way you panned an entire board for their "contributions" (or lack thereof), then immediately contribute something of dubious marginal value yourself (considering the lengths to which the headtube size has been discussed).

    I have to say, I think you're right though, both in your larger point (that DT should be commended for engaging customers on this board, despite all the drivel that goes along with it) and in your assessment that 1.5 headtubes offer the most versatility (I was just thinking of standard internal reducer headsets, not the ones designed to adjust the HTA).
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilks
    how are you any different form the "homers" you are complaining about? since your beef is the same which is that the bike is "too expensive" and you are posting on here that "you don't get it" and "you cant afford one" "other US made bikes are available for less blah blah blah" you sound like the ncotine crazed alcoholic from NM to me..........
    Or Jaybo.Or Renegade Take your pick.
    ****

  48. #48
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    all the cool kids with banshee runes are running k9 cups! to slacken the head angle by a degree or two......

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilks
    all the cool kids with banshee runes are running k9 cups! to slacken the head angle by a degree or two......
    carefull with that banshee talk; some folks around here don't like that name
    ****

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by dropmachine.com
    No, you owe him the respect he deserves for coming on to this retard pit and dealing with the layers of stupid **** thats constantly being spewed out by the "homers" and eTards who think they know what they are talking about. Its commendable that he not only continues to come on this place and speak DIRECTLY TO YOU. I am just amazed that he doesn't start putting bombs in his bikes to help Darwin out, considering the level of thought put into some of the things posted.


    Quote Originally Posted by dropmachine.com
    Dave, if you chuck a 1.5 on there people can tweak the head angle to suit them too. Just a thought.
    I'm a big fan of the 1.5, it just opens up more options. But the tapered seems to be really taking off. My theory is that it simply looks rad to have that sculpted head tube and this is what sells more than adjustability. The cool kid bikes these days aren't using straight tubes anywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by dropmachine.com
    Side note: whoever suggested the 29er RFX, I really hope that was a joke.
    Actually... at this point it might make more sense than a 26" rfx. I think a large part of the market of old guys who have the cash to spend on blinged out bikes has shifted to the 29er side. Who else is making a RFX-29er equivalent right now? Niner rip 9?

    I want a dw-rfx slack and low park bike, but in reality there is no way I am going to spend that much money on a bike frame, ever. I still want to see one built though.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    I would get you one at dealer cost if I knew which Turner Bikes dealer was a Banshee dealer ...

    DT
    I'm in a helpful spirit today: Redbarn bikes (the honorable Chad) is both a Turner and Banshee dealer.

    Do I get a reward?

    Yeah, I know ... I can have kick in the nuts. Been there, done that.

    Personally I am holding out my cash-strapped but still strong Turner brand loyalty for a zippier FS 29er.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowdog
    I'm in a helpful spirit today: Redbarn bikes (the honorable Chad) is both a Turner and Banshee dealer.

    Do I get a reward?

    Yeah, I know ... I can have kick in the nuts. Been there, done that.

    Personally I am holding out my cash-strapped but still strong Turner brand loyalty for a zippier FS 29er.
    Cowdog, if DT can get Chad to get me a banshee faster than my current vendor, you can have whatever $$$ DT's influence can muster.
    Then DT kicks me in the nuts.
    ****

  53. #53
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    Oh please

    RFX29er:
    A RFX 29er - you are not serious please enough already with the FR 29ers. How many times does it need to be spelt out ........................................... there are no good fork options / people willing to pay for it or even interseted in throwing themselves off stuff. (If you like throwing yourself off stuff then - good on ya - you are more talented than me).

    OLd Guys and 29ers:
    It is not just old guys with lots of money that now buy 29ers. 29ers make a lot of sense for alot of people regardless of height, age, cashed up or broke, XC / trail / FR or commuting. For 20 years l have been trying to fit on 26ers @ 6.4 and for the most part l did, l thought, until l rode a 29er, revelation as far as fit. Grand generalisation, but as MTBers get older does our quest for long travel, big hitting rigs diminish. Perhaps the over 40s are more inclined to take fewer risks with greater responsibility (kids, work, family, health). ............. especially if one didnt get into downhill / BMX in their youth. Hey dont take it as gospel, just a thought, but if the older generation are more inclined to take few risks then would that not reflect in an increase in 29er sales (as there are few big hit options available). It will be interesting to do a study on riders / bikes / needs / desires / etc. Perhaps 29ers are just for older folk with more $$$ than sense who are looking for an expensive excuse to compensate for lost youth and to get back in the "in crowd". I now understand @ 41, l will never be cool again.

    Forums:
    Forums are a rather funny beast arent they. I try to imagine how l got by without a mobile phone. You know when we would arrange to meet up in the old ages , we would phone each other (land line) and arrange a meeting place and time. If we had a question / complaint / interest in a product we would ring them up, hell even write a letter and discuss with someone involved in the product. Would we ring Ford and rub in their face that GM have their sh*t together, offer extra products and question were their dual cab ute is, as a form of constructive feedback. If l have a question or a concern about a MTB product my first cause of action is to contact the company and seek the answers directly from the source. Talk to my LBS. Forums often dilute the information from the source - we vent on forums rather than discuss first with the manufacturer. Perhaps we are more comfortable with obtaining the answers from our peers rather than for the source. Hell l approached one bike manufacturer recently with a question and the owner actually suggested another bike maker would be a better option for what l wanted..... now that is special. We are wrong to think forums are a democratic vehicle for the masses where all voices/ messages are heard and valid. They can be a great tool for gaining information / contacts / and sharing thoughts but can also be as uplifting as bunch of pregnate single schoolgirls at a therapy session............... and at times can be down right vicious.

    RFX
    I reckon if you are going to buy yourself a 6 -7 inch light FR / heavy duty trail rig you could contact Turner and ask how things were going. Pretty good chance you would speak to Dave, get the low down, discuss your needs and if he couldnt help you then he would probably suggest / advise other options and maybe over manufacturers to help you out. You would respect that advice, buy a Knolly, Banchee, or secondhand RFX, spend $$ at your LBS / eBay / swap stuff with your mates and maybe, just maybe, you would buy a Turner one day. When all the Stars are aligned, your Mojo is swinging, $$$ in your pocket and that prototype on the wall is reality you will call up Dave and he will suggest one of his bikes............ and maybe he wont............ but you can always ask.

    Closing Ramble and Pearls of Wisdom:
    It has to be fun and engaging otherwise it is redneck, e-trash, and someone is always looking to commit to the final destructive blow, sight unseen on another / or brand for what point? Leave you dirty washing in the tub and lets bring some value back in here.

    As you can see my work is alittle boring, have a good day

    Old guy on a 29er.

  54. #54
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    Glad to hear the DHR is alomost ready.

    Wondering if the 3rd Iteration of the RFX will be a Watered down Limp wristed 6 Spot. Hope not.

    If so I guess it's time to look at the Ellsworth Rogue.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIMBERRR
    Glad to hear the DHR is alomost ready.

    Wondering if the 3rd Iteration of the RFX will be a Watered down Limp wristed 6 Spot. Hope not.

    If so I guess it's time to look at the Ellsworth Rogue.

    Now that's some proper sheit stirrin, troll chummin, gauntlet throwin, smack talkin, gutter crawlin, fo sho.

    Must be somethin in the water up in Nederland?

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIMBERRR
    Glad to hear the DHR is alomost ready.

    Wondering if the 3rd Iteration of the RFX will be a Watered down Limp wristed 6 Spot. Hope not.

    If so I guess it's time to look at the Ellsworth Rogue.
    Geez its 0330 hrs here and I'm getting ready to hit the road for a road trip to Vegas for the day, got some places to look at and I think I just coughed up my cornies flakes!

    The Rogue is one ugly looking MOFO just about as bad as that Firebird, pivots the dam ugliest bikes going at the mo!

    Geez get a Knolly, Banshee even a Santa Cruz or Giant Faith ah maybe not the evil corporate empire, but common using EW is low esp at this time of the morning aniptodes time

    Just do what I do and HTFU and ride a DHR well I just push mine around cause Im such a Ham and Egger these days, but its good strength training, best fun ever, NO PAIN No GAIN
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by moosehead
    Now that's some proper sheit stirrin, troll chummin, gauntlet throwin, smack talkin, gutter crawlin, fo sho.

    Must be somethin in the water up in Nederland?
    Naw, it's in the air. Ned "legalized" weed smoking a couple weeks ago. And we have more legal weed dispensaries per capita than any other town in the state. Weez all pretty stoned up here.
    ****

  58. #58
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    Rene, please tell me it didn't snow up there last night?

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by moosehead
    Please tell me it didn't snow up there last night?
    Rained and hailed at my house, but my coworker, who lives further west than me, got 3 inches of hail accumulated by this morning. There was some sweet thunder and lightening last night.
    ****

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Rained and hailed at my house, but my coworker, who lives further west than me, got 3 inches of hail accumulated by this morning. There was some sweet thunder and lightening last night.
    Rain and a Little Hail on my side of the Pond.

  61. #61
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    Turner will have to dive into the carbon realm or risk annihilation. When the carbon Nomad comes out and weighs 27 pounds with an XT kit, the 32 pound 2013 RFX will not stand a chance in comparison.

    Diving into carbon means entering the world of overseas manufacturing at the same time. This is no big thing. As long as the bike rides as advertised based on properly designed suspension, and comes backed with the famous Turner warranty, I don't care if it's made on the moon.

    Can anyone tell me why he stopped selling the TNT versions of all his bikes? The continued sales of his "old" designs(RFX, DHR, Highline) over the past 2 years could have helped subsidize the tooling for their new DW rebirths. The old designs could be mfg'd overseas. Freeride frames WILL SELL at $1800 a pop.

    It all comes down to design, warranty, and customer service. I would ride a plastic frame produced by this company, because I know unequivocally that I will be taken care of no matter what happens throughout my ownership of said product.

    * Make all aluminum DW bikes here in the USA
    * Make the carbon counterpart overseas
    * Re-fire production of the TNT designs overseas, as a price point offering

    Presto, everyones happy.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms
    Presto, everyones happy.
    How about a Blue Steel pro review?

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by jubilee
    Hammerschmidt!
    Too obvious
    Crunchy. Even in mud.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms

    Can anyone tell me why he stopped selling the TNT versions of all his bikes? The continued sales of his "old" designs(RFX, DHR, Highline) over the past 2 years could have helped subsidize the tooling for their new DW rebirths. The old designs could be mfg'd overseas. Freeride frames WILL SELL at $1800 a pop.

    It all comes down to design, warranty, and customer service. I would ride a plastic frame produced by this company, because I know unequivocally that I will be taken care of no matter what happens throughout my ownership of said product.

    * Make all aluminum DW bikes here in the USA
    * Make the carbon counterpart overseas
    * Re-fire production of the TNT designs overseas, as a price point offering

    Presto, everyones happy.
    I would love to see a "new" version of the TNT rfx. 1.5 headtube, low and slack. A lighter weight version of the highline design would be killer too. Either of these would get my interest more than anything that's offered now.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by jubilee
    Hammerschmidt!
    How dare you, Jubilee! DW does not endorse the Hammerschmidt on a DW link bike! It cuts into the sales of his outdated chain retention devices!
    Team Sanchez; "Always hittin the upper lip"

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilks
    How profitable is Pivot versus Turner bikes? It doesn't matter how many models you make if they don't sell! I have no clue BTW - but would love to know how many units each company sells and what their P&L's look like.
    Why, you planning on giving one of them a loan ?

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms
    When the carbon Nomad comes out and weighs 27 pounds with an XT kit, the 32 pound 2013 RFX will not stand a chance in comparison.
    The fact that you have to exaggerate the weight difference (really, 5 pounds?) underscores the fact that a one pound difference on a ~30 lb. bike just isn't that big of a deal.

    If DT had limitless resources, I wouldn't hold it against him for adding imported plastic to his lineup to pacify the never ending cries for "cheaper" and "lighter". But if the last year and a half has taught us anything, it's that there is a finite (and apparently somewhat small) number of models that Turner can/will bring to market. With that in mind, I am happy to hear that I'll continue to be able to buy an aluminum, US made Turner since those are some of the defining traits the led me to the brand in the first place.
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  68. #68
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    Hands Up

    Hands up who really wants a carbon big hitting 6+ light freeride, trail, bike.

    counting.............................. 12 people


    Hands Up who really wants a 6+ 29er


    counting ............................. 4 people


    Cool lets swing DT some cash to start product, f*ck R & D and he can sell us Turner Decals on the side so we can label it ourselves (then no responsibility from Turner). All 16 people will need to put in 15 grand each. Please carbon is so 2004. Lets leave it to Scott, Ibis and VPPers to fill the void. 5 pounds............. l think not.

    What has been the biggest sellers for Turner over the years in order?

    I dont know ......... l am asking.

    The fact that all three bikes are a major improvement on previous models is a wonderful achievement. That is not saying the older Spots werent good but hell isnt it going in the right direction.

    Cool idea about releasing older models cheap but how many - at what cost - to pacify the crowd and the bank manager. No he is on to a good wicket, just do your thing DT.

    Have a good day

    JD

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms
    ...famous Turner warranty....mfg'd overseas...
    got to wonder if DT has the confidence in Taiwan for this.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms
    Turner will have to dive into the carbon realm or risk annihilation. When the carbon Nomad comes out and weighs 27 pounds with an XT kit, the 32 pound 2013 RFX will not stand a chance in comparison.
    Do you honestly think there is a 5 pound difference between a RFX and a Nomad?

    Between the 5Spot and the Blur LT Carbon there is about one pound difference in frame weight. With the same stuff on it that would make a 27 pound Blur and a 27.5 pound Spot. Too bad the Blur doesn't ride nearly as well as the Spot or I would go for the featherlight one...
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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen
    Do you honestly think there is a 5 pound difference between a RFX and a Nomad?

    Between the 5Spot and the Blur LT Carbon there is about one pound difference in frame weight. With the same stuff on it that would make a 27 pound Blur and a 27.5 pound Spot. Too bad the Blur doesn't ride nearly as well as the Spot or I would go for the featherlight one...
    Might want to check your maths there. But I agree, I'll take my porky Spot over a BLT any day.
    A green bird with a red body. We could look it up in a book. Or we could look up

  72. #72
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    I'll check my math...

    Competitive Cyclist lists the Blur LTc at 5.6 pounds.
    Turner Spot is approx 6.1 pounds, or close?

    Competitive cyclist lists the Nomad carbon at " A medium tips the scales at 6.1 lbs"
    OLD RFX was listed at 7.1 pounds.

    How this would make a 5 pound difference in a complete bike is beyond me... that was my point.

    I still wouldn't mind a 5.6 pound Spot...
    I still find a Spot, even the old one, riding better than the Blur LT carbon...
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  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli
    Why, you planning on giving one of them a loan ?
    Nope, unless a fiver and a packet of crisps is enough...my point was more about the Pivot line up versus the Turner line up..just because a manufacturer has a lot of products doesn't mean they all sell...if DT is convinced he'll have to take a bath on a DW RFX then he shuoldn't sell one..Pivot could be going out of business for all I know....GM has/had a lot of different models...look where that got them

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by beefmagic
    I would love to see a "new" version of the TNT rfx. 1.5 headtube, low and slack.
    sounds like a banshee wildcard

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen
    I'll check my math...

    Competitive Cyclist lists the Blur LTc at 5.6 pounds.
    Turner Spot is approx 6.1 pounds, or close?

    Competitive cyclist lists the Nomad carbon at " A medium tips the scales at 6.1 lbs"
    OLD RFX was listed at 7.1 pounds.

    How this would make a 5 pound difference in a complete bike is beyond me... that was my point.

    I still wouldn't mind a 5.6 pound Spot...
    I still find a Spot, even the old one, riding better than the Blur LT carbon...
    I think the spot is closer to 7lbs...

  76. #76
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    Alright, it would be about 700gram heavier than a identically built Blur LT C, right? 1.5 pounds or something(excuse my pound to gram conversion...I live in a metric world).

    Which one would you ride?
    I would still ride a Spot, it is a better bike, even if it is a tad heavier.
    ----------------------------------------
    Jorgen
    Trondheim, Norway
    Rocky Mountain Instinct C90 BC 2019

  77. #77
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    the hyrdroformed alu santa cruz's are a pretty effective combo of stiffness and low weight. so make a more apples to apples comparison here...nominal weight of alu nomad is 6.8 lbs, vs 6.1 lbs for the carbon nomad.

    0.7 lbs lighter is not overwhelmingly revolutionary.

    the world of road bikes has clearly shown that carbon fiber creates a pretty revolutionary combo of stiffness and low weight in that application...check out those Look frames...but when you throw in the need for reasonable impact resistance and thrashability, then the carbon frame weight creeps up.

    look at the giant fury DH frame. not particularly light.
    Originally posted by bucksaw87
    I still fail to see how mustaches, fixies, and PBR are ironic.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    I have made it very clear I do NOT want DHRs in 2 pieces or with linkage warranty issues...
    Oh c'mon now, this stuff isn't slowing Intense down any from dropping fresh nuggets into the market-pool - their customers seem to like being beta testers!

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by frorider
    the hyrdroformed alu santa cruz's are a pretty effective combo of stiffness and low weight. so make a more apples to apples comparison here...nominal weight of alu nomad is 6.8 lbs, vs 6.1 lbs for the carbon nomad.

    0.7 lbs lighter is not overwhelmingly revolutionary.

    the world of road bikes has clearly shown that carbon fiber creates a pretty revolutionary combo of stiffness and low weight in that application...check out those Look frames...but when you throw in the need for reasonable impact resistance and thrashability, then the carbon frame weight creeps up.

    look at the giant fury DH frame. not particularly light.
    As the technology becomes more advanced in the years to come I believe you will see stronger carbon frames that are significantly lighter. This is the 1st carbon Nomad. What will v.2, or v3 weigh...I am willing to bet it will be considerably less.

    And I believe you mean the GT Fury DH frame.

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