Romic or Swinger 4way coil for 5 Spot- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Romic or Swinger 4way coil for 5 Spot

    I have a romic on my 5 Sspot that has been trouble free for six months so far, but I am getting worried at the amount of failures that I read about on this board. Are most of the failures the results of drops, or do they slowly just get worse. I have a 5th element on my bullit that I like a lot, but I also like the lively feel of my 5 Spot with a romic. Is anyone using a Swinger coil on their 5 Spot. I was thinking the 4 Way cause I really wouldn't need the other 2 adjustments on my trail bike. Thanks for any help.

  2. #2
    DGC
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    Stay Romic for now

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenglow
    I have a romic on my 5 Sspot that has been trouble free for six months so far, but I am getting worried at the amount of failures that I read about on this board. Are most of the failures the results of drops, or do they slowly just get worse. I have a 5th element on my bullit that I like a lot, but I also like the lively feel of my 5 Spot with a romic. Is anyone using a Swinger coil on their 5 Spot. I was thinking the 4 Way cause I really wouldn't need the other 2 adjustments on my trail bike. Thanks for any help.
    I had a 4 way swinger on my 5 Spot, and it was incredibly firm, to get any plushness I had to run 50% sag and even then it was not plush or smooth. Answer thinks maybe a valving issue and also says the 3 way by design will be better with less built it SPV slow speed compression damping. I am going down to visit them next week and try out the 3 way and see how it works. The Romic leaks have been at the blue compression nob area. A bur will do in the o-ring seal down in that area. It is something that was supposed to have been fixed last summer. I will also be at Romic next week discussing that issue too. I have 2 Romics, one that is 2 years old and no problems at all, the newer one leaked right away, was fixed and never had another problem. If yours is fine dont sweat it.

  3. #3
    DGC
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    forgot

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenglow
    I have a romic on my 5 Sspot that has been trouble free for six months so far, but I am getting worried at the amount of failures that I read about on this board. Are most of the failures the results of drops, or do they slowly just get worse. I have a 5th element on my bullit that I like a lot, but I also like the lively feel of my 5 Spot with a romic. Is anyone using a Swinger coil on their 5 Spot. I was thinking the 4 Way cause I really wouldn't need the other 2 adjustments on my trail bike. Thanks for any help.
    The one I was on was the air, someone i know riding the 5 Spot with the 4 way coil said he felt it was a bit firm too, not as much as the air felt to me though.

  4. #4
    No, that's not phonetic
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    I rode a Swinger 4-Way...

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenglow
    Is anyone using a Swinger coil on their 5 Spot. I was thinking the 4 Way cause I really wouldn't need the other 2 adjustments on my trail bike. Thanks for any help.
    I have a Romic on my Spot, but yesterday I demoed a Canyonsnail Gemini 2000 which had a Swinger 4-way coil on it. We are in Moab on a bike vacation and I am hopping on some different bikes to see what is on the market out of curiosity since I live in Alaska and don't have access to much up there.

    The Gemini was a size large with a Manitou breakout plus (7" single crown), a Swinger 4-way coil rear (7" travel), hayes 8" brakes, XT stuff, moderate weight wheels, etc. Probably a 35-37lb rig. We rode 34 miles which included about 11 miles of highway, a few miles of dirt/gravel road, and a lot of very rough/abusive ledgy slickrock on the Gold Bar Rim/Golden Spike/Poison Spider trail. My favorite ride, and a very technical and rough rim.

    The Gemini is a high single pivot and demonstrates all the characteristics which are wrong with that design. Noticeable pedal feedback from the suspension in the granny, suspension stiffening under load in the granny, and some bad bob when standing in the middle ring. The thing was really a pig. I started with 100# in the SPV chamber on the Swinger (the range is 50-175#) and the thing pedaled like a Johnny-Jump-Up. Very soft and compliant, but no discernable platform. I cranked the SPV chamber up to the max pressure and pedaling improved, but the single pivot nature asserted itself periodically anyway, and nothing will mask pedal feedback/suspension stiffening. The ride stayed relatively compliant and smooth despite the high SPV pressure. This surprised me after demoing a Yeti 575 with a 5th Element Air which was absolutely rock solid, all the time. That shock didn't even want to sag. It had a high IFP (SPV) pressure also. I did not mess with that one. The 575 also has a lower single pivot and did not exhibit feedback. I liked it way better than the Gemini, though they really are very different bikes designed for different things. The Gemini would be a good light shuttle bike, and coasted down over rough stuff extremely well. It just didn't like steep, rough climbs at all.

    Anyway, my point is that the Swinger coil had a surprisingly supple and "platformless" ride even at the max SPV pressure. I thought it would feel locked-out like the 5th air, but it really didn't. Both sacrificed some suppleness on tiny stuff when set up this way, but it was acceptable. The Swinger platform effect was quite mild, like the Romic's, but the rest of the dampening tends to behave more like the 5th coils is purported to have in that you can run a lot of sag with little fear of bottoming, and things seem very well controlled (some say "dead"). Perhaps more so than the Romic which does feel lively and active for the most part.

    I ride my Romic with the bob-knob turned all the way out a lot. The Turner's 4-bar is very well tuned and does not need much help from a platform shock imo. Sometimes I add a few clicks of the blue knob, but by the time the filter really kicks in, I do notice some loss of compliance so I back off again after a while. I go back and forth depending on how rough the ride is and what I want.

    I have had 2 Romic failures in 5 months. Not a good record. When they work, I like them, but I am going to try a Swinger 3 or 4 Way Air as a backup, and now I have a good impression of the 4 Way Coil as well. I could try a Swinger coil as the backup, but as long as I am going for a second shock, I want something very different (air). I liked the Swinger coil's mild platform and think that would match the Turner's lack of need for one very well. I don't know how the coil's and air's behavior's differ, but I get the feeling the air is "harsher" based on some feedback here. Hard to say.

    Get a backup before a bike trip or if you absolutely cannot live without your Spot for some reason. Otherwise just ride the Romic till it blows (if it ever does).

    tscheezy
    Last edited by tscheezy; 03-04-2004 at 09:49 AM.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  5. #5
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    tscheezy: how are the brakes doing?

    I'm building my new spot: I've been torn between the Hayes (the realiable standard according to by LBS) and the Juicys. I've also been told that the red knob is a gimmick in the field. They say that the Hayes has the same adjustment (needing tools?) at the lever. I ride technical stuff, endurance races (trans rockies), and I do some downhilling too. I rode Hayes at whistler and they seemed fine if maybe a little bit on/off. I've heard the Juicy's are supposed to be the best modulating brake out there. How are your Juicy's performing on your trip? (I've read your advice on discs and pads etc..). Is the red knob for real? Any rub? is the modulation truly better than Hayes?

    Sounds like some good riding (poison spider rocks). Enjoy!


    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    I have a Romic on my Spot, but yesterday I demoed a Canyonsnail Gemini 2000 which had a Swinger 4-way coil on it. We are in Moab on a bike vacation and I am hopping on some different bikes to see what is on the market out of curiosity since I live in Alaska and don't have access to much up there.

    The Gemini was a size large with a Manitou breakout plus (7" single crown), a Swinger 4-way coil rear (7" travel), hayes 8" brakes, XT stuff, moderate weight wheels, etc. Probably a 35-37lb rig. We rode 34 miles which included about 11 miles of highway, a few miles of dirt/gravel road, and a lot of very rough/abusive ledgy slickrock on the Gold Bar Rim/Golden Spike/Poison Spider trail. My favorite ride, and a very technical and rough rim.

    The Gemini is a high single pivot and demonstrates all the characteristics which are wrong with that design. Noticeable pedal feedback from the suspension in the granny, suspension stiffening under load in the granny, and some bad bob when standing in the middle ring. The thing was really a pig. I started with 100# in the SPV chamber on the Swinger (the range is 50-175#) and the thing pedaled like a Johnny-Jump-Up. Very soft and compliant, but no discernable platform. I cranked the SPV chamber up to the max pressure and pedaling improved, but the single pivot nature asserted itself periodically anyway, and nothing will mask pedal feedback/suspension stiffening. The ride stayed relatively compliant and smooth despite the high SPV pressure. This surprised me after demoing a Yeti 575 with a 5th Element Air which was absolutely rock solid, all the time. That shock didn't even want to sag. It had a high IFP (SPV) pressure also. I did not mess with that one. The 575 also has a lower single pivot and did not exhibit feedback. I liked it way better than the Gemini, though they really are very different bikes.

    Anyway, my point is that the Swinger coil had a surprisingly supple and "platformless" ride even at the max SPV pressure. I thought it would feel locked-out like the 5th air, but it really didn't. The platform effect was quite mild, like the Romic's.

  6. #6
    No, that's not phonetic
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    The Gemini had Hayes...

    Quote Originally Posted by yeroc
    I'm building my new spot: I've been torn between the Hayes (the realiable standard according to by LBS) and the Juicys. I've also been told that the red knob is a gimmick in the field. They say that the Hayes has the same adjustment (needing tools?) at the lever. I ride technical stuff, endurance races (trans rockies), and I do some downhilling too. I rode Hayes at whistler and they seemed fine if maybe a little bit on/off. I've heard the Juicy's are supposed to be the best modulating brake out there. How are your Juicy's performing on your trip? (I've read your advice on discs and pads etc..). Is the red knob for real? Any rub? is the modulation truly better than Hayes?
    The red knob is not a gimmick and the Hayes do not have an adjustment (tools or no tools) which replicates the red knob's effect. You will likely dial the red knobs in once and not bother with them again until you change grips, wear thicker gloves, or make some other noticeable reach related change. The brakes are quite consistant one set up and don't need fiddling from the red knob, therefore the the perceived "in-field" gimmick comment. The red knob controlls the pad engagement point. The Hayes have no such adjustment. Both brakes offer reach adjustment in the same way (small allen screw).

    I tried Hayes HFX Carbon 9s on the 575. Total crap. Hated them. The Hayes on the Gemini were the regular Mags with 8" rotors and the regular non-carbon levers. While they were much better than the Carbon 9s, the Juicy's are still better. Amazing to me was that the Hayes with 8" rotors really did not develop more power than my Juicy's with 6" rotors, and the Juicys do modulate better and have a better lever feel to boot. I would certainly go Juicy again and even though the Hayes have redeemed themselves somewhat after my initial poor impression, the Avids still spank them cleanly.

    I had rotor issues with the Juicy waveys at first (rough edges/grinding noise), but that is all cleared up (chainsaw filed the edge). Some occassional rub, but the Hayes do that too. It is easy to adjust out. I also has squeal issues at home in the wet, so I switched to EBC gold pads which cleared that up, but the metal pad carrier is totally the wrong shape for the Juicy caliper and you have to do a LOT of filing to get them to work well. In the dry riding here in Utah, the stock Avid C4 pads work GREAT! Very happy. No fade, tons-o-power, mostly quiet. I would certainly go Juicy again. They are also easy to bleed and look the dog's danglies.

    See ya.
    tscheezy
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  7. #7
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    Thanks guys

    Thanks for the help.

  8. #8
    Daniel the Dog
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    The Juicy uses DOT oil right?

    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    The red knob is not a gimmick and the Hayes do not have an adjustment (tools or no tools) which replicates the red knob's effect. You will likely dial the red knobs in once and not bother with them again until you change grips, wear thicker gloves, or make some other noticeable reach related change. The brakes are quite consistant one set up and don't need fiddling from the red knob, therefore the the perceived "in-field" gimmick comment. The red knob controlls the pad engagement point. The Hayes have no such adjustment. Both brakes offer reach adjustment in the same way (small allen screw).

    I tried Hayes HFX Carbon 9s on the 575. Total crap. Hated them. The Hayes on the Gemini were the regular Mags with 8" rotors and the regular non-carbon levers. While they were much better than the Carbon 9s, the Juicy's are still better. Amazing to me was that the Hayes with 8" rotors really did not develop more power than my Juicy's with 6" rotors, and the Juicys do modulate better and have a better lever feel to boot. I would certainly go Juicy again and even though the Hayes have redeemed themselves somewhat after my initial poor impression, the Avids still spank them cleanly.

    I had rotor issues with the Juicy waveys at first (rough edges/grinding noise), but that is all cleared up (chainsaw filed the edge). Some occassional rub, but the Hayes do that too. It is easy to adjust out. I also has squeal issues at home in the wet, so I switched to EBC gold pads which cleared that up, but the metal pad carrier is totally the wrong shape for the Juicy caliper and you have to do a LOT of filing to get them to work well. In the dry riding here in Utah, the stock Avid C4 pads work GREAT! Very happy. No fade, tons-o-power, mostly quiet. I would certainly go Juicy again. They are also easy to bleed and look the dog's danglies.

    See ya.
    tscheezy
    I don't like shim systems, so I have been using Hayes. I like 'em. No problems with 'em. I did get the Hayes Mag system. I don't like DOT fluid on my bike frame though.

    Thanks,

    Jaybo

  9. #9
    Bike Breaker.
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    Idea! Tscheezy

    Just would like to point out it's a coil fork. You obviously didn't set up the shock properly. You start with 50Psi in the chamber and then set preload etc. etc.

  10. #10
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by catnash
    Just would like to point out it's a coil fork. You obviously didn't set up the shock properly. You start with 50Psi in the chamber and then set preload etc. etc.
    I'm really confused. What fork are you referring to? I scanned back across my posts above but don't see where I was talking about a fork. Maybe quote the section you are looking at. I rode a Minute 3 (SPV air), Black (non-SPV coil), and a Sherman Breakout Plus (SPV coil). Do you mean one of those?
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  11. #11

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    DGC: asked this somewhere else, but since you mention you are going to Romic... wondering whether most of the shocks that have the problem are the longer travel shocks as compared to the 6.5x1.5 models. Thanks.

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