Rebuild Conundrums - '04 Z1 FR zoke- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Rebuild Conundrums - '04 Z1 FR zoke

    Hey Homers....

    I finally got around to rebuilding my trusty 2004 Z1FR on my soon to be Glow-in-the-dark Spot. I did myself a favor and decided to install some of those swanky Enduro brand fork seal/wipers while the hood was open..that went quite easy....but, I have a few specific questions I'm hoping someone might have some insight to.

    I downloaded some rebuild instructions from a guy who did a nice pictoral step-by step for the Z1 and z150 from 2004. You can see for yourself how nice it is:
    http://www.daevh.co.uk/bike/service/z1.htm

    But, upon refilling my fork w/ oil, I was met by a few questions I couldn't answer from reading the article

    1. The ETA damper leg side - the article said to fill the compressed fork to within 70mm of the crown threads [I weigh about 190, so maybe this is incorrect?]...this I did w/ my little syringe/hose deal I made...but, upon cycling the ETA damper rod, I noticed the oil level in the fork fluctuated by quite a bit. Which makes me wonder, do I have to make my measurement with the damper rod all the way seated/within the fork, or with the damper rod extended to the max? Or, did I miss something and the oil level should not fluctuate?

    2. The HSVC damper rod side.....I filled the fork leg to the same 70mm height as the ETA side, then cycled the damper - observing that the oil level did not fluctuate....Prior to re-assembly, I unscrewed the rebound rod, cleaned it off. Then I re-installed the HSVC damper in the leg, then with my syringe, filled the fully extended rebound damper rod up with oil [I held the damper rod fully extended by clinching a zip tie around it so it wouldn't sink down], then allowed the rebound rod to sink back in before threading it, per the article....My question is - was I correct in fully extending the damper rod, filling it, then refitting the damper rod? The article said I wouldn't need a lot of oil, but since it was fully extended, I had to put more than a little oil in it - this didn't seem quite right for some reason?

    3. Lastly, how tight do the nuts on the bottom of the fork legs [which secure the bottoms of both damper rods] have to be torqued to - the article didn't say, but I can't imagine it's very much torque....

    I know I could spend hours doing an advanced search to maybe answer these questions, but I figured many of you have already crossed paths with my questions....and yes...I did have to dremel my 12mm socket [worked like a charm!]

    I eagerly await your insights!

  2. #2
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    Welcome to why I NEVER measure oil in forks by level, only volume.

    The lower nuts only need to be "snug", not reefed down. They use a fat o-ring to avoid leaks. They are aluminum, so you don't need to go to town on them.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  3. #3
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    Marz usa says 155 or 160 cc's of oil depending on if you are over or under 80Kg. The chart I have from the U.K distro. says either 60 or 55 mm from the top of the stantion. The measurements (mm's) are taken with the springs removed and the stantions and damper shafts fully compressed.

    Only issue that i see with volumes, is that you might not (most likely wont without dillligence) get all of the oil out of the damper before refilling. So i fI am doing a quick oil change, i usually go by height measurement. Make sure that you cycle the dampers a bit with the oil level at about 90% to get all of the air out, then fill to correct height.

  4. #4
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    I am just thrilled, I was one step away from buttoning up my z1 when I snapped the top of the HSCV damper rod off as I was screwing on the top cap....Yay!

    I suck!

    I'm going to have a beer an feel sorry for myself for a bit......

  5. #5
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    That totally sucks. Is it because you had taken the top caps off to remove the springs to measure the oil height? Welcome to the OTHER reason I measure volume, not level.

    My 04 Z1 is sort of just sitting around these days. If you need parts, let me know. Maybe I can help somehow.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  6. #6
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    Yeah, It was really hard to tell just how tight the top cap was going onto the damper rod end, between having a 10mm wrench wedged between the spring and plastic spacer, holding the damper shaft - kinda a dumb setup IMO - I suspect the steel washer that sits between the cap + plastic spacer, may have hung up on something while I was wrenching giving me a false sense of tightening cuz the washer center was deformed and had two gouges in it that weren't there before...., but anyway, since that and the bottom nut is pretty much the only thing holding it together, I wanted to make sure it was really tight - I guess I got it as tight as possible!

    I can definitely see now, the advantages of not removing the top cap from the damper rods - there's no reason to really unless one wants to remove the thin rebound damper shaft for cleaning [which I did].....where's my time machine, I know I left it around here somewhere.....

    This really sucks, because combined with the new Enduro seals, Bel-Ray Non seal swelling 10wt, doing the workbench squish test - it was noticeably more smooth and dampy feeling...I'm so bummed I can't try it out on a real trail.

    I'm going to call Marzocchi USA and see how long their 2 month repair/parts replacement wait list is this week, and then my local shops and find out if this is something they could handle faster than I could dealing direct w/ Marzocchi, and if that falls thru, How much would you want for the damper rod T - I have no idea how much something like that goes for, but I'm assuming its expensive... Or, maybe the whole fork for that matter [provided it's a standard QR dropout model]..??

    Well, at least I got a swanky Surly 1x1 to zip around on in the meantime......but, it's going to put a squash on getting my Glow-In-The-Dark-Spot on the trail......

  7. #7
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    I have no idea on price either. I could part it out, I suppose, unless you wanted the whole shebang (QR20 dropouts).
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  8. #8
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    I called Marzocchi, and they will sell my LBS [wont sell it to me direct] a new damper cartridge for $140.....so, if that gives you an idea of how much something like that goes for.....I don't know how keen you would be to part out the damper, and possibly the top cap, metal washer thingie, but I'm interested in any offer you come up with.....

    After talking w/ the Marzocchi tech, we decided the reason the damper threads sheared off was because I had re-inserted/threaded the rebound adjuster all the way in, so that barely one thread was showing. I had read in that how-to that when refitting the rebound damper rod to be "Very carefully screw the adjuster back into place, leave about half a millimeter of screw thread showing. CAUTION! make sure the thread is screwed in properly and not cross threaded as it is a very fine thread.
    was, in fact WRONG.....it should have said to just barely get the rebound adjuster threads started in the damper rod, before screwing on the top cap. This way when the fork is all buttoned down, you can turn the rebound adjuster clockwise and get more damping.....

    When I assembled my fork, the damping rod was allready bottomed out and had nowhere to go, thus causing the damper rod to shear off at the threads - something had to give....

    Lesson learned - always take pictures on disassembly, and take notes.....and take every how-to with a grain of salt!

  9. #9
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    Well, either you can have the whole fork ($200?) or just the cart ($75?). I guess I would prefer to sell the whole thing since a fork minus a cart is pretty useless to me.

    It's all in great shape, no scratches on the stanchions, bushings still snug, pretty low miles, blah blah. I won't be home to deal with this for about a week, so if you need something NOW, better call Zoke back.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  10. #10
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    Ideally, I'd really only want the damper cartridge, if you're so inclined.....I'd be willing to wait til you get back [when would that be], as I've got a few bikes I can ride in the meantime.....

    However, if you don't feel comfortable crippling your otherwise fine and dandy Z1, I'll understand. No worries! I have a paypal account that I can transfer you the funds to if need be......Although it is tempting for an extra 60 bones, I could get the whole fork over a new damper, but I'm pretty strapped for cash right now as it is....

    Either way, feel free to either email me details at

    jokermtb@wowway.com

    or PM me on this mtbr BB.....

  11. #11
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    With T's damper cartidge on it's way south to michigan, I thought I'd pick the collective Homer brain one more time - this concerns the the nuts on the bottom of the fork legs [which secure the bottoms of both damper rods]. When I talked to the Marzocchi tech, he said there's really no way to secure the damper rod when tightening these nuts - they use an air-wrench to twist it tight, before it can slip - it only needs a few ft/lbs of torque, but how can you tell it's really tight if you don't use a torque adjustable air wrench?. I don't have an air wrench, so I was wondering what you guys do, and how do you know it's really as tight as one thinks it it?

    That was kinda ramble-ish - sorry!

  12. #12
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    On those forks, I have not had any issues with the damer spinning when snugging down the foot nuts as I recently did with RC2 carts on the 66SL. The foot nuts have an o-ring which seals the holes even if the rod is not tight, so oil leaking is not an issue. I just go in there with a small driver and my milled-down 12mm socket and just make them snug, not really "tight". The nut and damper end are both aluminum, so there is no desire to go to town on them.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  13. #13
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    If you use "impact rotations" of the ratchet, then the nut will not overcome the intertia and friction of the damper inside. A few times and you'll finally seat it. Trust me, it works.

  14. #14
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    Once you get the fork back together (with the foot nuts 'just snug'),

    turn the fork foot nut up and compress the fork a bit to create some friction on the cartrage inside the fork. This should allow you to get them more snug. You could also try to tighten them in a jerking quick motion to try to emulate the action of an impact wrench. Even quickly tapping the end of the socket handle with a smll hammer might create enough velocity to snug it a little more.

    But as cheese pointed out, the nut has an o-ring that seals the oil in ( i have never had a leak or any problems with just snug foot nuts)..as long as it is on therer good enough so as to not come off, you are good to go .

  15. #15
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    cool - sounds like having this bolt "tight" is not as important of having it snug. I did do the real fast ratchet tighten to simulate an air-wrench, and got it snug, but it still could be somewhat easily rotated by the ratchet if I wanted to keep turning the ratchet. I just don't want that nut to come loose on me at an inopportune time, and it sounds like this really wont happen if it's merely snug.

    I will try the post assembly compression snug down, just to see if it helps, but since Tscheezy is now presently out of Z1 rebound carts, I'll definitely be taking it easy.....

    thanks for the perspectives!

  16. #16
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    You could always upgrade to RC2...

  17. #17
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    an RC2....now wouldn't that be nice!

    I picked my cart up from the post office today [thanks for throwing in the adjuster knob too, Tscheezy!], and I'll be installing it sometime this week, and I should have it back together by the time my spot gets back from it's rehab vacation in Murietta....

  18. #18
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    I finally got my fork dialed in......I did adopt the volume method and made a tool for suctioning oil out of the fork w/ out removing the top caps or removing the cartridges + loosening the bottom nut/s.....I got a veterinary syringe, and the plastic tube from a windex bottle. After collapsing the fork by unscrewing the top caps and pushing the fork down all the way, I just pushed the springs to the side, creating a gap to insert the windex tube down inbetween the spring and the damper rod. After sucking up enough oil [after several sessions], I finally got the bottom out air-spring effect spring rate I was after - full travel, nice low speed suppleness....yeah!

    I'm going to test it out tomorrow at a friend's free ride/skills stunt playground in his backyard tomorrow for the final test...It sure is nice having a fork that works better than before.

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