Okay, PUSH 5 Spot Rockers available...- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! Okay, PUSH 5 Spot Rockers available...

    Now who's first in line to get production rockers? Let's see 'em.

    http://www.pushindustries.com/produc...ame%20Products

    Note the fine print for '03 frames.
    Long Live Long Rides

  2. #2
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    New question here.

    2 bills for half an inch (bb height and travel), give or take...
    Honest question:
    Why???
    ...every day sends future to past...

  3. #3
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by xjbebop
    2 bills for half an inch (bb height and travel), give or take...
    Honest question:
    Why???

    Well, why not just make it go to 10 and make 10 louder?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Well, why not just make it go to 10 and make 10 louder?
    This one goes to 11

  5. #5
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    C'mon now, I really want someone to convince me why I need these.
    By increasing the rear travel to 5.75", would that allow the use of a 150mm fork and give a balanced ride? (I understand that these were designed to be used w/ the Pike at 140mmm, but...?)
    I seem to recall DT saying a 150mm fork + Spot was a sin (?), so would these rockers change that? Or would that extra 10-20mm put too much leverage on the head tube structure?
    ...every day sends future to past...

  6. #6
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    I really want someone to convince me why I need these
    "NEED" It would be safe to say that none of us "need" any of this MTB stuff......but "want", now we're talking!

    As for the forks, keep it at a Fox 140, or Pike at most. 150mm forks are too much for this application.

    Darren

  7. #7
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    When will they be on sale in the UK?

  8. #8
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    Sounds like the ticket for people who desire a higher bottom bracket. We'll see.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by xjbebop
    C'mon now, I really want someone to convince me why I need these.
    By increasing the rear travel to 5.75", would that allow the use of a 150mm fork and give a balanced ride? (I understand that these were designed to be used w/ the Pike at 140mmm, but...?)
    I seem to recall DT saying a 150mm fork + Spot was a sin (?), so would these rockers change that? Or would that extra 10-20mm put too much leverage on the head tube structure?

    $1850 for a Spot frame plus $300 in shock/link customization to make it ride even better and still less expensive than an Ellsworth Epiphany/Moment. Talk about WTF???
    Long Live Long Rides

  10. #10
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    I'll bet that most of the whining we're gonna hear about the price is from folks who have no concept whatsoever about what it takes to manufacture a machined part[s] and cover the costs involved. I'm quite surprised Darren can offer the components at $180 bucks. I have no sympathy for you whiners; if you think it's too much, sell your turner, buy a huffy, and shut the hell up. Pull your head out of the sand, and look around at the real world.
    Nuff said.
    ****

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    I'll bet that most of the whining we're gonna hear about the price is from folks who have no concept whatsoever about what it takes to manufacture a machined part[s] and cover the costs involved. I'm quite surprised Darren can offer the components at $180 bucks. I have no sympathy for you whiners; if you think it's too much, sell your turner, buy a huffy, and shut the hell up. Pull your head out of the sand, and look around at the real world.
    Nuff said.
    Beer fridge empty this AM Renny?
    Nothing to see here.

  12. #12
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    well said rene. There's been design, prototypes etc plus new machines at PUSH, it's all gonna cost. I'm going to try them, hopefully it will give the spot a new lease of life. I wonder how well they would work on a 5 pack, or 5.75PUSHpack?

  13. #13
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    OK, I'll admit this gets me drooling.
    Any idea of what the new geometry will be - lets say with a FOX 140mm fork?
    Will this void the Turner warranty? (and otherwise good faith in taking care even after the warranty...)?
    I am really waiting to see the specs of the upcoming new RFX - which I understand is going to be more like a longer travel 5spot... - anyone know when this is planned?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    Beer fridge empty this AM Renny?
    Yea, I'm sober. Scary thought.
    No, just a reaction from a machinist who has heard to many complaints about the costs of manufactured products. To clue folks in, here are some of your costs:
    Raw material; the aluminum for the rockers, the axle, bushings, Titanium bolts. Do you guys think titanium bolts are cheap?
    Machining costs: In house, you have a milling machine that costs $$ amount per hour to run. Included in that costs are wages for the machine operator, the initial payoff of the machine tool, wear and tear on the machine, tooling [end mills, drills, reamers, coolant, oil] overhead for the operation, quality control, processing, shipping, and a little thing called profit.
    Darren's giving them away at $180.00.
    ****

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND
    "NEED" It would be safe to say that none of us "need" any of this MTB stuff......but "want", now we're talking!
    I NEED PUSH 6-Pack Rockers

  16. #16
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    ?????

    **03 model year frames utilizing center mounted front derailleur cable stop limited to 2.2 rear tire

    like this????


    2.2??

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    I'll bet that most of the whining we're gonna hear about the price
    I was actually expecting a much higher price tag, and was pretty shocked (bad pun) to see a PUSH'd treatment for the shock and the rockers for $300.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    I NEED PUSH 6-Pack Rockers
    If there is one thing in life you need, its an unfulfilled need.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdub
    If there is one thing in life you need, its an unfulfilled need.
    Well, I still don't have that endless harem of 19 year old girls that I've always wanted.

    Maybe Beastro will let me borrow some of his.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND
    "NEED" It would be safe to say that none of us "need" any of this MTB stuff......but "want", now we're talking!

    As for the forks, keep it at a Fox 140, or Pike at most. 150mm forks are too much for this application.

    Darren
    Darn! There goes my plan of using a Totem on my Spot
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    I NEED PUSH 6-Pack Rockers
    Me too!

    I wonder how the PUSH Spot rocker will affect the Pack's geometry. Any idea?
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  22. #22
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    $180 is a tiny price to pay for a properly functioning bicycle. If you think your Spot is already functioning properly, then don't buy the rockers. Plain & simple.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms
    $180 is a tiny price to pay for a properly functioning bicycle. If you think your Spot is already functioning properly, then don't buy the rockers. Plain & simple.
    Tru-dat. I'm offering a service: for $125 buckeroos, I'll send you a certificate that proclaims that your 5-spot is a properly functioning bike. You save $55 over the cost of the PUSH rockers!
    ****

  24. #24
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    Cool!

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Tru-dat. I'm offering a service: for $125 buckeroos, I'll send you a certificate that proclaims that your 5-spot is a properly functioning bike. You save $55 over the cost of the PUSH rockers!
    So if I purchase this from you, does it make me certifiable?

    Quote Originally Posted by xjbebop
    $1850 for a Spot frame plus $300 in shock/link customization to make it ride even better and still less expensive than an Ellsworth Epiphany/Moment. Talk about WTF???
    Seams rational enough for me. I'm sold! This is exactly how a break things down for my wife but for soem reason she never seams to get it.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpdsurf
    So if I purchase this from you, does it make me certifiable?
    Yup; 100% certifiable, ready to enroll in the institution of your choice!
    ****

  26. #26
    on a routine expedition
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    If you're running a coil shock, do you need to change spring rate when you install the Push rockers?

  27. #27
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! I will let you know next week......

    I will have them installed next Tuesday and will let you know what the difference is. Photos, too.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkullCrack
    If you're running a coil shock, do you need to change spring rate when you install the Push rockers?
    I would say yes. Average leverage rate is different. If you have a spring right now (stock rockers) that is a little stiff (you never use all of the travel, you might be able to get away with the same spring and have more sag and a more plush ride.

    tftuned gives me a change of about 40# in spring rate (180# rider), when changing from 5.3 to 5.75 inches.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCUBAPRO
    Me too!

    I wonder how the PUSH Spot rocker will affect the Pack's geometry. Any idea?
    Should raise the bb a little over 1/2 inches, and everything else that comes with that change.

    I have a 5-pack and also 6" pack rockers. The 6" rockers lower the bb about 1/8 - 3/16 in lower than the 5.3" rockers.
    Daren has stated that his rockers lift the rear 1/2", compared to the 5.3's. So 1/2 plus 1/8...5/8 inch higher as a guess.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrew
    $1850 for a Spot frame plus $300 in shock/link customization to make it ride even better and still less expensive than an Ellsworth Epiphany/Moment. Talk about WTF???
    I think you misunderstood my question, which Busty Scrotums managed to state better than I: "If you think your Spot is already functioning properly, then don't buy the rockers. Plain & simple."

    I was not whining about the cost, as I expected it to be more also. Sounds very reasonable.
    And I fully understand the 'want' aspect.
    I simply want to understand how & why these will improve over the stock 5.3" rockers.
    +/- 1/2" of travel and BB increase: check
    Change of leverage ratio? Tell me more...
    Any other changes incurred from these new rockers....???
    ...every day sends future to past...

  31. #31
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    As I understand it, Darren has designed the rockers to get the most out of a PUSH'd Fox air shock. A PUSH'd shock is tuned to your weight and riding style, so with the rockers as well you should maximise this advantage. The rockers also correct the frame's geometry for the Pike and 140mm Fox forks, the 5 spot was designed around the 125mm Fox forks. Someone said something about mid stroke acceleration but that went over my head I'm afraid. Maybe Darren can chime in on this?

  32. #32
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    this deal is a steal

    Darren's price is unbeatable, and when combined with his tuning and re-tuning of the Fox shock, attains unbelievable status.
    For what it's worth, when I put XR rockers and a PUSHED Fox on my Burner the ride changed considerably (for the better) so I'm very interested in a full report on how these new rockers affect the Spot's ride.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by xjbebop
    Any other changes incurred from these new rockers....???
    Here is what Darren said about them in an earlier post:

    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND
    They're designed to get more travel (5.7"), increase mid stroke linearity when used with an RP3, reduce weight (40grams TBD with actual production pieces), increase torsional stiffness (6%), reduce friction (by means of hardcoat and PTFE plating), and lastly adjust the geometry slightly to work work with a 140mm fork (0.375" bb height increase with Pike).
    A couple of other posts with info:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=1787975
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=1686062

  34. #34
    Daniel the Dog
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    It will be interesting to see what people think about 'em...

    I'm not all that excited about 1/2" of travel but it will be cool to see if the quality of travel improves at Darren improves the Turner design . I wonder if anyone will have the balls to actually give a real review. It will be tough to give an accurate review because people will transition from a stock shock to a Pushed shock. Hard to corner the ride quality variables. I'm considering the change becuse $300 isn't too bad for the Pushed shock and rocker.

    Jaybo

  35. #35
    Lay off the Levers
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    I got an idea JB, how about we all just wait for your review it then?
    Pony up sucka, it's time you give a little back besides distain.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  36. #36
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    tune the dh air for the spot?

    does that mean you will tune the dh air?Or is that just rp3 thanks
    Last edited by it hurts; 09-09-2006 at 11:59 AM.

  37. #37
    Time flies...
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    good point. I've got a DHX-A on the spot, so will these new rockers work well with it, or are they designed primarily for the RP3?
    I'm planning on switching the air sleeves on the DHXa (spot) and the RP3 (flux) in a day or so to see what happens. From what I've read here, it could be a win-win move!
    ...every day sends future to past...

  38. #38
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    As far as tuning goes - Darren indicated that the change they would make to an already tuned RP3/RP23 would be to increase the PP slightly to compensate for the increase in leverage.

    Since this custom tunable with the DHX-A using the boost valve, I don't see why that shock wouldn't work, unless there are other issues created by the higher leverage with that big air can.

    My issue with that shock on the 5-spot (which may be in my head) was that it seemed to sort of wallow in its travel, if that makes any sense (sorry for the technical jargon). I would think the increase in leverage would exacerbate that.

    Anyhow - if you want to know, try it out. I may swap my DHX-A back onto the bike after I get mine just for sh*ts and giggles.

  39. #39
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    I'll bet that most of the whining we're gonna hear about the price is from folks who have no concept whatsoever about what it takes to manufacture a machined part[s] and cover the costs involved.
    No, that's basically why we are whining. So much cost for so little benefit.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  40. #40
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    Listen! I can and will give a real review

    Jaybo - I have a PUSH'ed Talas 140 and a PUSH'ed RP23 on my Spot that I have been riding for 2 months.

    I am putting on the new PUSH Rockers this Tuesday and I will let you know what I think - really. Heading to Monarch Crest next weekend and I think that will be a good test, too. I ride that trail once a year and I know how my Moots did there last year, so it will be interesting to see how the Spot rides/handles on the 9 mile downhill.

    Frankly, I am most interested in the 1/2" more clearance in the BB height - I have ridden the trails I ride around Steamboat Springs so many times on other bikes that this year I have noticed that I am hitting things I have never hit before and I think that 1/2" will make the difference.

    Anything else I gain from this addition is a bonus for me.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tappoix
    **03 model year frames utilizing center mounted front derailleur cable stop limited to 2.2 rear tire

    like this????


    2.2??
    Of coarse?
    Why do I always end up with the frame with limitations?
    Oh well.

    right now I am running a 2.3 weirwolf. I quess we will see how that works.
    I think I am going to get a set of these to go with my new vanilla R 140.

    My only question is will I have to get a new spring for my pushed vanilla rc.
    Right now I have a ti spring and a new one of those could make this spendy....If I can even find one.

  42. #42
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    Why?

    1. Full travel from my RP3 which is the shock I prefer to use on the Spot, in the application I use the bike. Probably dreaming, but I want a bit of the feel I get on the RFX with CCDB. With proper sag, my RP3 seldom delivers full travel.

    2. Resume the favored geometry I lost by a bit when Fox (needlessly) stretched the 07 Van 32 to 140 mm of travel. It's a small change, but noticeable on tricky technical up-moves. I don't want to go the adj travel fork route.

    3. They should look really cool.

    Number 3 is, of course, the critical deciding factor!
    Whining is not a strategy.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by whidbeydh
    Of coarse?
    Why do I always end up with the frame with limitations?
    Oh well.

    right now I am running a 2.3 weirwolf. I quess we will see how that works.
    I think I am going to get a set of these to go with my new vanilla R 140.

    My only question is will I have to get a new spring for my pushed vanilla rc.
    Right now I have a ti spring and a new one of those could make this spendy....If I can even find one.
    You should be fine with the WW. There are a touch small anyway. Darren tested the clearance with my bike, and I think it was OK with the 2.3 Conti Gravity's that I had mounted on it. I think Darren has build in a certain margin of error due to the non-std bike tire sizing.
    Last edited by S-Works; 09-09-2006 at 08:36 AM.
    Astigmatic Visionary

  44. #44
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    When will they be on sale in the UK?
    Very Soon

    Beer fridge empty this AM Renny?
    That's just funny

    I NEED PUSH 6-Pack Rockers
    You need to learn to ride a little more aggresively before asking me to buy set of those.

    like this????
    10-4 good buddy. Because of the differences with tires, I can't give you an absolute but tire buzz can be an issue with larger volume tires on the center mount cable stop bikes.

    Darn! There goes my plan of using a Totem on my Spot
    I've told you 10 tens that the Totem doesn't belong on your bike.....I'm making a trip back to SoCal to throw down with my Lyrik on the RFX to finally end your dreams of the "big" fork.

    If you're running a coil shock, do you need to change spring rate when you install the Push rockers?
    If your spring rate is correct, than yes. Riders who've found that they're in between rates and have aired on the firmer side will not due to the leverage curve.

    Change of leverage ratio? Tell me more...
    Any other changes incurred from these new rockers....???
    The rockers also correct the frame's geometry for the Pike and 140mm Fox forks,
    First off, I just wanted to make sure that riders understand that this is NOT a "Fix" for the 5 Spot. There's plenty of 5 Spot riders who don't want to change their setup on an already awesome bike. This product idea basically came from one of Dave and I's geek phone sessions in which we were talking about how the 5 Spot rider had evolved into using bigger tires, Bars, Wheels etc.. Anyway, on his cue that prompted me to look at what I could design to compliment that rider using the information that we had as well. I've noticed a move away from rising rates in the middle of the shock stroke to allow for a more plush and active ride in the meat of the travel...a reason that DHX-A shocks and high volume air sleeves have been popular. There's also a trend for less platform in the shock tuning for bump sensitivity, but riders still want good efficiency. Lastly, is big hit control. Becasue riders are going to bigger tires, wheels, longer forks, etc. they are riding larger impacts so bottoming control was important.

    So, in reading the forum and listening to riders I designed the rockers. Little more wheel travel to help with more aggresive trail riding, a little extra BB height to keep the pedals away from the larger obstacles that people are riding, adjust the geometry to accept the Fox 140 and Pike forks, and at the same time maximizing stiffness to weight and friction of the rockers. Next, using our vast database of leverage curves I looked at tweaking the mechanical leverage to allow the rockers to have good mechanical efficiency so that we could run lower platform in the shock while minimizing pedal bob. Change the middle of the curve past the sag point to increase rate to give the bike that plush high volume air can feel with a standard Float sleeve or coil over shock. Lastly, make sure that there was plenty of mechanical rising rate to control bottoming. Voila, the product was born.

    Darren

  45. #45
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND
    You need to learn to ride a little more aggresively before asking me to buy set of those.
    Just remember, I'm not the one who has trouble staying ON his bike or completing a ride




  46. #46
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    Just remember, I'm not the one who has trouble staying ON his bike or completing a ride
    If I rode at your pace I'd be able to stay on as well. You've gotta hang it out every once and a while!

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND
    If I rode at your pace I'd be able to stay on as well. You've gotta hang it out every once and a while!
    Now, THAT's funny. I'll be sure to bust that one out next time. I'll have plenty of time to remember it while I'm waiting for ya

  48. #48
    Amphibious Technologies
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND
    I've told you 10 tens that the Totem doesn't belong on your bike.....I'm making a trip back to SoCal to throw down with my Lyrik on the RFX to finally end your dreams of the "big" fork.
    I'm listening! Lyrik on order & DT was kind enough to offer a Spot seatstay to get the angles I want. Sweeet! Can't wait to get it bolted-up.
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

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