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Thread: New vs Old

  1. #1
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    New vs Old

    So if you were building a new bike and the choice was between:

    A new DW 5 Spot with a 36, and XT/LX level components, and a semi budget wheelset,

    or

    A 2005 6 Pack with Cane Creek DB, a Fox 36 and XTR components and a nice set of King wheels.

    All of the components will be new.

    Which would you choose? I know this is a budget question that most people will say I should answer myself, but the bikes will be within dollars of each other. Newer frame and cheaper components or a time proven older design?

    Oh and if I am way off on the similarities between these two, on paper, both of them wearing a Fox 36 at 160mm look to be very similiar.

    Thanks,
    Ryan.

  2. #2
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    I'd buy the Sultan.
    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells

  3. #3
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    DW Spot

  4. #4
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    If you have to ask, you'll probably like the 5spot better.

  5. #5
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    I know I'm walking into this one,...but I have always liked the 6pack frames.

    Heck, even the name is cool. I least I would know, given the amount of beer I drink, and the resulting ponch, I could still somehow have a six pack.

  6. #6
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    dw 5 spot, you will be much happier with the performance even with the cheaper components...

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    I am currently the proud owner of a DW 5 spot having converted over from a 08 rfx. both bikes performed excellent and i have found that the 5-spot certainly gets uphill alot easier than the RFX and have heard others talking how when descending/jumping the old HL/TNT link is better but personally i didnt notice the difference. i know the 5 spot feels more laterally stiff so maybe that makes up for it. just my opinion. cheers.
    Scott Scale Pro 29er.
    Turner 5-spot.

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    Downhilly,

    This is the kind of information I wanted to know. I know a lot of the 6 Pack guys are using the 5.5 rockers so the travel would be the same.

    Is your Spot built up with the same components off of your RFX?

    So the 5 Spot is the old RFX replacement? or at least for the later RFX's that went a little more towards the light side.





    Quote Originally Posted by downhilly
    I am currently the proud owner of a DW 5 spot having converted over from a 08 rfx. both bikes performed excellent and i have found that the 5-spot certainly gets uphill alot easier than the RFX and have heard others talking how when descending/jumping the old HL/TNT link is better but personally i didnt notice the difference. i know the 5 spot feels more laterally stiff so maybe that makes up for it. just my opinion. cheers.

  9. #9
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    Depends what you want to do and how you ride so asking us is like when your woman asks, "does my ass look fat?", there's no right answer.

  10. #10
    Rolling
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123
    If you have to ask, you'll probably like the 5spot better.
    I think you are right, he sounds like he is just asking for confirmation to justify a choice already made.

    Quote Originally Posted by electricsnail
    dw 5 spot, you will be much happier with the performance even with the cheaper components...
    LMAO. That is classic. This revelation should save people zillions on components.
    Last edited by lidarman; 12-23-2009 at 10:56 PM.

  11. #11
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    Wow, Lidar and 123 join forces... What's next dogs and cats living together?

    That being said, I fully support Ryan's decision to buy a DW Spot.

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    Haven't made a decision yet, but it is forthcoming. I really wanted to wait for the new RFX, but after talking to DT the first week of Dec, he told me that it was a year away.

    So I am faced with an older RFX/Pack or a DW Sport which on paper look quite similar. Within 1/2 pound of each other if using the same shock. Both have 68 degree headtube angles and 14" bottom brackets when using a 160mm fork.

    So the question is save some money on the older frame and buy nicer components and hope that they are compatible with the new RFX frame, but probably won't be, or bite the bullet and go with the 5 Spot frame if it is a good replacement for the older RFX.



    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    I think you are right, he sounds like he is just asking for confirmation to justify a choice already made.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottryana

    So the question is save some money on the older frame and buy nicer components and hope that they are compatible with the new RFX frame, but probably won't be, or bite the bullet and go with the 5 Spot frame if it is a good replacement for the older RFX.
    You hit the nail on the head, some of your nicer components will not be compatible so the money spent on them is short term although it's not like everythng from a Spot will go right over either. Whatever you decide you'll be getting a good bike so you're covered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scottryana

    So the 5 Spot is the old RFX replacement? or at least for the later RFX's that went a little more towards the light side.
    Nope.

    The spot will not handle near as much on the downs, nor will it be as comfortable and forgiving. I'd say that it depends a lot where and how you ride.

  15. #15
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    I don't know if this will help, but I went from a 6 pack to an 07 RFX. Noticeably better climber, smoother descender with the different shock ratio. Depending on what shock I run and what tires I run, the weight is between 31 to 34 pounds.

    I've been looking to get a bit lighter, upper 20's, so I got mtb123's panties in a bunch by asking if the DW spot is as capable as my RFX. I asked because it seemed like alot of homers were selling RFX's and getting the new spot, and they really liked it.

    I don't remember DT's exact response, but he said something to the effect: yes the new spot is nearly as capable (I read: not as capable descender, but close) as the 07/08 RFX (Obviously depends on setup as well). It just climbs alot better.

    So if I had the choice you presented. DW spot.

    Good Luck!

    P.S. I'd put an adjustable Lyrik or a Talas 36 up front.
    Astigmatic Visionary

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    Quote Originally Posted by S-Works
    I don't know if this will help, but I went from a 6 pack to an 07 RFX. Noticeably better climber, smoother descender with the different shock ratio. Depending on what shock I run and what tires I run, the weight is between 31 to 34 pounds.

    I've been looking to get a bit lighter, upper 20's, so I got mtb123's panties in a bunch by asking if the DW spot is as capable as my RFX. I asked because it seemed like alot of homers were selling RFX's and getting the new spot, and they really liked it.

    I don't remember DT's exact response, but he said something to the effect: yes the new spot is nearly as capable (I read: not as capable descender, but close) as the 07/08 RFX (Obviously depends on setup as well). It just climbs alot better.

    So if I had the choice you presented. DW spot.

    Good Luck!
    Does this mean that your new deedub is on order?

    Sounds more like there were too many people on RFX's that should have been on 5spots to begin with. Typical for MTBR...

  17. #17
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    Sounds more like there were too many people on RFX's that should have been on 5spots to begin with. Typical for MTBR...[/QUOTE]:

  18. #18
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    I still like the look and feel of the old 6 pack and would be very happy with one with nice parts.
    More bikes than you can point a broken spoke at...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pink
    Sounds more like there were too many people on RFX's that should have been on 5spots to begin with. Typical for MTBR...
    :[/QUOTE]
    yeah, i'll admit that im one of them.
    Scott Scale Pro 29er.
    Turner 5-spot.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123
    Sounds more like there were too many people on RFX's that should have been on 5spots to begin with. Typical for MTBR...
    I'll bite - do you know the terrain that everyone rides intimately? do you know their bike set up preferences? their riding style? their geometry preferences? You can not make sweeping generalizations like that IMO. As I have said I have been on two older 5 Spots an 06 RFX and an 08 RFX before swapping the 08 RFX parts (minus the seat post) onto a 2010 DW Spot. The terrain I ride is extremely rocky, technical, slow rolling with very short but steep ups and downs. I lked the extra travel of the 08 RFX and the steeper seat angle for climbing. I also liked the slacker head angle for descending over the older 5 Spots. On the 08 RFX I would rarely go off anything higher than the top of my seat. I used it like a long legged trail bike. I enjoyed the bike a great deal - does it mean I was on the wrong bike because I wasn't hucking it the way you would? despite the fact it matched my riding style and terrain well? Don't forget the 09/10 DW Spot's are the first ones designed for 160mm forks. Maybe if the DW Spot had come out in 06/07 I might have skipped an RFX but the 09/10 Spot is very, very similar to an 09/10 5 Spot with 150mm fork - I give the edge to the DW on climbing and efficiency and the RFX the edge on descending but it's close. The fact they are so closely matched is precisely why the DW RFX will be beefier and longer in it's travel and is taking 2 years to produce - in order to get the right line up separation. If the man who designed all these bikes thinks there is little to chose between an 07/08 RFX and an 09/10 5 Spot why do you find it so hard to accept?

  21. #21
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    PS scottryana - here are my thoughts on going from an 08 RFX to a 10 Spot - and FWIW the 08 RFX is a little less beefy, with a steeper seat angle than a Six Pack.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=576991

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilks
    I'll bite - do you know the terrain that everyone rides intimately? do you know their bike set up preferences? their riding style? their geometry preferences? You can not make sweeping generalizations like that IMO. As I have said I have been on two older 5 Spots an 06 RFX and an 08 RFX before swapping the 08 RFX parts (minus the seat post) onto a 2010 DW Spot. The terrain I ride is extremely rocky, technical, slow rolling with very short but steep ups and downs. I lked the extra travel of the 08 RFX and the steeper seat angle for climbing. I also liked the slacker head angle for descending over the older 5 Spots. On the 08 RFX I would rarely go off anything higher than the top of my seat. I used it like a long legged trail bike. I enjoyed the bike a great deal - does it mean I was on the wrong bike because I wasn't hucking it the way you would? despite the fact it matched my riding style and terrain well? Don't forget the 09/10 DW Spot's are the first ones designed for 160mm forks. Maybe if the DW Spot had come out in 06/07 I might have skipped an RFX but the 09/10 Spot is very, very similar to an 09/10 5 Spot with 150mm fork - I give the edge to the DW on climbing and efficiency and the RFX the edge on descending but it's close. The fact they are so closely matched is precisely why the DW RFX will be beefier and longer in it's travel and is taking 2 years to produce - in order to get the right line up separation. If the man who designed all these bikes thinks there is little to chose between an 07/08 RFX and an 09/10 5 Spot why do you find it so hard to accept?
    Very well said. I have both an 08 Spot and an 08 RFX and they are night and day apart, albeit the spot is set up on the light side and the RFX is set up heavy. If I was to buy a DW spot I would transfer the parts from my RFX over not from the spot. I guess I'm just agreeing with you but lack your communication skills to make it as clear as you. I think bike set up and parts selection matters alot more than just what frame your riding.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123
    Does this mean that your new deedub is on order?

    Sounds more like there were too many people on RFX's that should have been on 5spots to begin with. Typical for MTBR...
    i think all of mtbr should clear their future purchases with you just so they don't end up on something they don't need. do you also pontificate on electronics? i'm now rethinking my 1080p lcd purchase. maybe i could have got by with a 720p since i really don't watch much tv. oh swami123 please help me.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000
    i think all of mtbr should clear their future purchases with you just so they don't end up on something they don't need. do you also pontificate on electronics? i'm now rethinking my 1080p lcd purchase. maybe i could have got by with a 720p since i really don't watch much tv. oh swami123 please help me.



    Given your tv watchin' skill set, there will not be a discernible difference. I'd say just go old skool and save yourself a few bucks, but, make sure you slap a "three-prong" piggy on it before you plug it in. Especially this time of year....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New vs Old-2009-12-24_084027.jpg  


  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123
    Does this mean that your new deedub is on order?

    Sounds more like there were too many people on RFX's that should have been on 5spots to begin with. Typical for MTBR...

    Well of course. But not for the reason you think. I based my decision solely on your review of the DW spot.
    Astigmatic Visionary

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    Quote Originally Posted by S-Works
    Well of course. But not for the reason you think. I based my decision solely on your review of the DW spot.
    As long as it helps at least one person...it's all worthwhile

    Merry Christmas!

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    Check's in the mail for the 6-Pack!

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    Quote Originally Posted by scottryana
    Check's in the mail for the 6-Pack!
    Ooh...my heart just skipped a beat

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottryana
    Check's in the mail for the 6-Pack!
    Did you buy MK's kit?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottryana
    Check's in the mail for the 6-Pack!
    youll be stoked either way. enjoy.
    Scott Scale Pro 29er.
    Turner 5-spot.

  31. #31
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    I have to climb a lot so I'd vote Spot (a bit late, I know) but the differences are less obvious with the new iteration of the Spot. The biggest advantage the Spot will have is how much better it will feel when climbing. The RFX will probably still feel better descending with a longer WB and a slacker HA (the pedaling diff is still pretty significant). Now, if you could just wait and get the new RFX...maybe you still can when it comes out. All that said, I'd have gone with cutthroat's idea.

  32. #32
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    interesting

    Quote Originally Posted by wilks
    - I give the edge to the DW on climbing and efficiency and the RFX the edge on descending but it's close.
    Are you preferring the longer wheel base or linkage on the RFX on the downs? Please explain more about the RFXs edge on descending..
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeerhillOG
    Are you preferring the longer wheel base or linkage on the RFX on the downs? Please explain more about the RFXs edge on descending..
    I think flyer nailed it above - a slightly slacker head angle, just about an extra inch of travel and a longer wheelbase all help significantly...the Roco coil also helped on the RFX over a Pushed RP23. I rode for a couple hours on the DW Spot today and i must say the confidence is increasing on the downs now - the 36 spaced down to 150mm really helps make the DW Spot more point and shoot.

  34. #34
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    No, even though that looks like a great deal, I ended up buying a large 6 pack frame, and HL 5 spot seat stays. Just in time for a winter project. I will probably try and strip the powder coat off and polish the frame once it arrives. It might be a slow process finishing the build but it will be ready for spring!

    Ryan


    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123
    Did you buy MK's kit?

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123
    Sounds more like there were too many people on RFX's that should have been on 5spots to begin with. Typical for MTBR...


    People need to realise that the RFX is a serious machine for serious terrain and skilled riders.

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