Maverick ML7 or 7-5 vs. Turner 5-Spot or Flux- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Maverick ML7 or 7-5 vs. Turner 5-Spot or Flux

    I'm a longtime rider (15 yrs) and am finally ready to retire my hardtail ways (Schwinn Homegrown Factory hardtail) for some full-sus love. I've pretty well narrowed it down to the Maverick ML7 or 7-5 and the Turner 5-Spot or Flux. I live on the Front Range of Colorado, and my riding is 90% trails in this area with occasional road trips for rides on Monarch Crest, Summit County, Winter Park, etc. In other words, rocky terrain with a lot of steep climbs and descents. I'm a trail rider -- not a hucker, so I'm looking for the ultimate 'trail riding' bike. Used to race XC for years, and while I've hung up the heart rate monitor, I still like to ride fast. I test rode a 5-Spot with a DHX 5.0 shock and RS Revelation fork recently and loved it -- except on long, steep climbs where it felt like I was pedaling my sofa... slow and a little cumbersome. Some of my riding partners include both Turner-ites and Maverick-men, and both camps love their rides, but I'm looking for some opinions from a wider sample size, so to speak. ANY INPUT FROM THOSE OF YOU WHO RIDE THESE BIKES -- ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO HAVE SPENT TIME ON MORE THAN ONE AND CAN TALK TO THE RIDE DIFFERENCES -- WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED!

  2. #2
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    I have a lot of time on 5-Spots and have demoed a Mav ML5, ML7.5, and ML 8 (or some such numbers). Maverick folks set up each of the rigs knowing my weight, etc. I freaking HATED those bikes. They bobbed a lot out of the saddle, the geometry was way weird imo, and seated coasting through bumps was a really odd sensation with the saddle to pedal distance constantly changing as the suspension cycled. The front der setup was a major hazard (leading to chain skip and knee bashing into stems during hard efforts).

    I apologize to monolink fans, but I would sooner saw off one of my legs than ride one of those. If the problem lay in the bike's setup, well... that was Mav's fault too. Just make sure you go demo one before buying. Maybe you will have a better experience than I did.
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  3. #3
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    Unlike Ts, when I rode the Mav V1 (whatever the number is), I liked it a lot, but could never live with the front derailer issues.

    As a 1 x 9 or with Rohloff maybe, but no way otherwise.

    The Spot is the widest range covering swiss army knife of all bikes. Buy one and don't look back.
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    Home, I'm going through the same dilemma but my choies are between the Turner Flux and Yeti AS-R SL. I too reside here on the Front Range and have retired the HT race bike in search of cush. I have no experiance on a Mav but plenty of time on the Turners and Yeti. I am 99% sure I am going with the Turner Flux based on fit, ride feel, customer service, design, and quality. (Who said you couldn't have it all)

    As for your second question of 5-Spot versus Flux or 5" versus 4", I'd go Flux. If you are coming off of a HT race background and want to stick to that kind of riding, a 4 banger will feel just fine and will handle most of what Front Range CO will throw at you without the slack feel you said you experienced on the Spot. Will the 5" bike have more cush and feel better in the rough, yep. But it doesn't sound like super rough and drops are your thing. Everyone is right about the Spot being a jack of all trades and can be built up as a light racer or beefy trail bike. IMO 4 inches is plenty for us non-hucking XC riding climbing freak types. We just need to be more conscious about picking our lines. For your style of riding is 4 inches too whimpy here in CO, no.

    Go Flux or check out the new Turner Sultan 29er (http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=225450).

  5. #5
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    I had a Maverick ML 7.5 for three proper rides before some low-life nicked it

    In that brief time I loved it.

    Got a 5 Spot to replace it though

  6. #6
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    Stolen? You sure you didn't just loose it in the brush?





    Sorry... couldn't resist! Having a bike taken sucks bigtime.

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  7. #7
    Toby Wong?
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    the Turner is made in the USA

    not so sure the Maverick is

  8. #8
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    I have the Flux and it is an excellent bike. I have it set up for trail riding with 2.25 Nobby Nics/819s and pretty durable parts with little bling. I love the way it handles. In the steeper stuff away from the Front Range, the Spot would be a blast, especially with the new PUSH rockers. However, I'd still like to have a 4" travel bike that is nimble and handles well. The thing is that I have two now (El Salt and a Flux) and I really want a Spot as well (with the PUSH rockers). I can't make myself sell one get the Spot so I'm stuck till I get some more cash saved up. Maybe I can get the Spot too- piece by piece.

    For stuff like most of the Front Range and the higher elevations, I like having two bikes since the Flux is fast and almost intuitive while the Spot can be taken to the rougher stuff. If I had to have ONE... oh, I can't do it. I have to have two. Sorry, I mentally flipped between the Flux/Salty and the Spot and just decided I would be no good to this thread since I can't live with just one bike right now. Ignore my babbling- I'm really low on sugar right now.

  9. #9
    MK_
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    There is no substitute for your own opinion. Test riding a Maverick and a Turner is idea. You should contact Dave at Red Stone Cyclery in Lyons for a Turner demo, you can take one for a spin around Hall, and either go directly to Maverick and via Sports Garage for a ML demo. I'd go direct though Maverick, they're located next to Scuba Joes and the Fix in Boulder, by the steelyards.

    Each design has its merits, and it largely depends on your background to enjoy one over the other. Coming from a hardtail, you'd probably appreciate the Maverick more. Between ML 7 and 7.5, I'd recommend 7.5, as it is lighter and has more travel with no penalty in pedaling efficiency. Between the two Turners, it is not as easy of a choice.

    _MK

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK_
    Coming from a hardtail, you'd probably appreciate the Maverick more. Between ML 7 and 7.5, I'd recommend 7.5, as it is lighter and has more travel with no penalty in pedaling efficiency.
    I have a buddy here on the Front Range that went from a hard tail to a 7.5 this year, and is very happy with it. He knows how to tune the suspension (I think he took a class taught by Maverick) well, and watching him climb on it is impressive. The rear shock exhibits no movement at all under seated climbing.

    I've not ridden a 7.5, but I wasn't real impressed with the 7. I've been a dual-squish guy for many years though, so the 5Spot/Flux was much more my style.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tappoix
    the Turner is made in the USA
    By window frame manufacturers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tappoix
    not so sure the Maverick is
    Built by bicycle frame manufacturers in taiwan
    ...not that any of that matters.

    To OP: Both are great bikes. After riding both I nearly ordered the 5 Spot... if it wasn't for that pesky pivot location thing.

    I've been riding the ML 7/5 for 5 months now and have never been happier.
    Front derailluer is not an issue if it's set up properly.
    Suspension needs to be set up properly as like any bike.
    I can actually get out of the saddle and climb on this bike.
    I'm not big on air, but I've gone bigger on this bike than any other.
    The 7/5 was practically made for Downieville and other rocky, fast trails. It likes the technical stuff too.

    You can't go wrong with either bike.

  12. #12
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    For what it's worth, the Spot and Flux are made at the same factory that your Homegrown was...

    I spent quite a bit of time on both the Spot and the Flux (detailed impressions here). Bottom line - I thought the Spot was overkill for most of the riding around here, except for a few places that are really steep and/or rocky. For every day riding and woodsy terrain, I much prefer the Flux. It's a quicker handling bike with a snappier feel. With big tires on it, it becomes a do anything kind of bike. Whenever I was going on all day excursions in unscouted terrain, the Flux was always my weapon of choice. For what it's worth, I rode everything on the Flux that I did on the Spot. Just preferred the Flux 90% of the time.

    Caudex, if you haven't thrown a leg over a Flux yet, give me a shout. I'd love to help you out.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by caudex333
    As for your second question of 5-Spot versus Flux or 5" versus 4", I'd go Flux. If you are coming off of a HT race background and want to stick to that kind of riding, a 4 banger will feel just fine and will handle most of what Front Range CO will throw at you without the slack feel you said you experienced on the Spot. Will the 5" bike have more cush and feel better in the rough, yep. But it doesn't sound like super rough and drops are your thing. Everyone is right about the Spot being a jack of all trades and can be built up as a light racer or beefy trail bike. IMO 4 inches is plenty for us non-hucking XC riding climbing freak types. We just need to be more conscious about picking our lines. For your style of riding is 4 inches too whimpy here in CO, no.

    Go Flux or check out the new Turner Sultan 29er (http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=225450).

    I can't comment on the Maverick bikes, never ridden them.

    I do ride the Front Range trails, and was in the same boat as you a few years ago. I came from a Homegrown to a Turner Burner (predecessor to the Flux), then to a Spot after 2 years on the Burner. I like the Spot better for the trails around here - it's a better technical climber, and a WAY better descender. The Flux will be better on a long non-technical grinder climb like Green Mountain or Falcon, but the Spot is the bike for everything else around here.

    The Spot is also a flexible enough bike that you can start with a light XC build (~27lbs), then make it heavier and more durable (~30) over time if your riding heads that way. It'd save you the expense of having to go through 2 frames (4 in the case of MK: Burner>Spot>Pack>RFX). Squeaky also went from a 4" bike to something bigger (RacerX>RFX) for the trails around here, so the phenomenon is well documented.

    The slack head angle was the first thing I noticed on the Spot, but I changed my riding position to be a bit more upright, and it feels better than the more "XC" position I used to ride in. It does corner a bit slower, but it just takes some getting used to. I now lean into the corners more, and initiate my turns a little earlier. Not better, just different.

    Don't know if this helps, but good luck.

  14. #14
    MK_
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLine
    I can't comment on the Maverick bikes, never ridden them.

    I do ride the Front Range trails, and was in the same boat as you a few years ago. I came from a Homegrown to a Turner Burner (predecessor to the Flux), then to a Spot after 2 years on the Burner. I like the Spot better for the trails around here - it's a better technical climber, and a WAY better descender. The Flux will be better on a long non-technical grinder climb like Green Mountain or Falcon, but the Spot is the bike for everything else around here.

    The Spot is also a flexible enough bike that you can start with a light XC build (~27lbs), then make it heavier and more durable (~30) over time if your riding heads that way. It'd save you the expense of having to go through 2 frames (4 in the case of MK: Burner>Spot>Pack>RFX). Squeaky also went from a 4" bike to something bigger (RacerX>RFX) for the trails around here, so the phenomenon is well documented.

    The slack head angle was the first thing I noticed on the Spot, but I changed my riding position to be a bit more upright, and it feels better than the more "XC" position I used to ride in. It does corner a bit slower, but it just takes some getting used to. I now lean into the corners more, and initiate my turns a little earlier. Not better, just different.

    Don't know if this helps, but good luck.
    You know, the funny thing is that soon after I built up the RFX, I grew a big vagina and I regressed tromendously in terms of pushing the frame. I just slapped 5in rockers on the RFX and with the 66 set to 6in it is handling like a dream at the moment.

    I personally think that 5in in the Front Range is the absolute minimum if you just want to relax and not bother working every pebble of the trail. The ML 7.5 is evolutionarlily quite ahead of the 7.3. The tubing is reworked and quite a bit of computer modeling has gone into making it a much better bike than the predecessor. I can't comment, however, on how well it rides as I ride a Turner on a daily basis.

    Now here comes the anti-social part of my post. First, I love Tcheezy's comment that the Maverick bobs like crazy out of the saddle. That's pure gold, since we all know how all other full susser's stay bob free in standing efforts.

    And Dave, I completely agree with your comment that the Flux is good for 90% of the stuff around here. But not everyone can squeeze as much out of the frame as you, and the fact that you couldn't help yourself but to get a 6.75in full susser is pretty funny.

    Anywho, I don' t mean to offend anyone, we all have our preferences and we all deep down know what's best. But everyone's different, and the best solution is to ride all the bikes you're considering and form your own. Especially since it isn't pocket change we're spending on these.

    One thing's for sure, Dave's Redstone Cyclery is one of the best bike shops around and Maverick is right smack down in the middle of the Front Range. You can't go wrong with either choice, but you'd do yourself a big favor and save a lot of second guessing if you just throw your own, personal leg over these bikes and treat all our recommendations with a LARGE grain of salt.

    _MK

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  15. #15
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    So, you want to buy your frame back? Can't have it, but maybe the re-worked, lighter RFX will be better for you But shouldn't you really try a Highline first? And if that doesn't work, maybe a DHR? You've got to go forward before moving back.

    Yeah, I agree with ignaz just as much as I contradicted him - you can ride a 4" bike around here and be just fine, it's all a matter of personal taste as to whether you'd WANT to, though. I rode my Homegrown for a month while my Spot/Burner tradeathon was going on, and had a great time. I took my cross bike up Lair of the Bear a few weeks ago, and was surprised at how well it did. I'm even thinking about getting a ridgid SS to devolve further (sssh). But for riding around here most of the time, I'll be taking the Spot. That's just me, so big grain of salt. But what happened to me could happen to you....

  16. #16
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    The maverick bikes certainly LOOK cool, but from a fundamental standpoint, having the rider pretty much standing [no pun intended, well maybe...] DIRECTLY ON THE SWINGARM, just plain doesn't make sense - in fact, its downright stupid.....can you say "unsprung weight"???

    Every URT type bike, Maverick included, suffers from this deficient engineering deficit, that is somehow justified away with fancy language. No amount of fancy engineering theories can convince me otherwise. Can you imagine trying to devise damping that would react to a 175lb rider standing on the swingarm mounted BB, blasting downhill, then sitting down and pedalling thru a babyhead rock pile? Good freekin' luk~!

  17. #17
    MK_
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLine
    So, you want to buy your frame back? Can't have it, but maybe the re-worked, lighter RFX will be better for you But shouldn't you really try a Highline first? And if that doesn't work, maybe a DHR? You've got to go forward before moving back.

    Yeah, I agree with ignaz just as much as I contradicted him - you can ride a 4" bike around here and be just fine, it's all a matter of personal taste as to whether you'd WANT to, though. I rode my Homegrown for a month while my Spot/Burner tradeathon was going on, and had a great time. I took my cross bike up Lair of the Bear a few weeks ago, and was surprised at how well it did. I'm even thinking about getting a ridgid SS to devolve further (sssh). But for riding around here most of the time, I'll be taking the Spot. That's just me, so big grain of salt. But what happened to me could happen to you....
    Yeah, I've taken a fancy to singlespeeding recently myself. I've developed quite a respect for all the purists. One thing I didn't mention in my previous post was that I went from a hardtail (not quite as purebred as the homegrown) to the Burner and I felt like I grabbed the Lord by the ankles. That was long before I figured out the first thing about suspension tuning and what it meant to make the most out of the features on the trail. Going from a hardtail to any full susser is tromendous.

    _MK

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK_

    And Dave, I completely agree with your comment that the Flux is good for 90% of the stuff around here. But not everyone can squeeze as much out of the frame as you, and the fact that you couldn't help yourself but to get a 6.75in full susser is pretty funny.
    _MK
    Yeah, that is kind of funny. The 6.6 is the best of both worlds for me anyway. More travel, higher bb, shorter wheelbase, and steeper HA than the Spot. 30.2 lbs, too, so not bad. I did miss the Flux so much that I bought a demo for the shop in my size, though Heck, who knows. I might have to toss all that out the window, as I just today secured my place in line for a Sultan for shop demo...
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokermtb
    The maverick bikes certainly LOOK cool, but from a fundamental standpoint, having the rider pretty much standing [no pun intended, well maybe...] DIRECTLY ON THE SWINGARM, just plain doesn't make sense - in fact, its downright stupid.....can you say "unsprung weight"???

    Every URT type bike, Maverick included, suffers from this deficient engineering deficit, that is somehow justified away with fancy language. No amount of fancy engineering theories can convince me otherwise. Can you imagine trying to devise damping that would react to a 175lb rider standing on the swingarm mounted BB, blasting downhill, then sitting down and pedalling thru a babyhead rock pile? Good freekin' luk~!
    ...and how much time have you spent on a Maverick?
    and regarding your last sentence.... done that, only 30 pounds heavier.

    I think the Maverick is ugly as hell. I didn't buy it for it's looks.

  20. #20
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    My fundamental beef with "stand on the swingarm" bikes is that they tether the rider to the suspension bits, instead of separating and isolating the rider from the suspension action directly......Lots of riders obviously don't mind that one bit, and I hope maverick all the best.

    I wonder if they are going to mount handlebar grips to the sliders on their next generation fork, to simulate the method they use in the rear......now that would be balanced!

    If it's OK to do that in the rear, it should be OK to do it in the front [pun away!]

  21. #21
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    My fundamental beef is with strongly held opinions not based on actual experience. For a discussion of unsprung weight and URT, see http://www.leelikesbikes.com/maverick-ml-8.html#more-62

    My actual experience is that the ML8 climbs better than any bike I have previously ridden. Try one, then comment.

  22. #22
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    I hope I'm proven wrong!

    but, any other URT I've ridden provide a disturbing vibro-foot-massage singapore style foot caning when pointed downhill, but they all climb like goats [bikes I've ridden - klein mantra + schwinn URT]

  23. #23
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    I rode the first generation Maverick with 4 inches of travel for a month when my friend had me build one up for him and break it in when he was recovering from knee surgery. I thought if felt like it had much less suspension than it did. It was less plush even than my 3" Turner O2 and not worth comparing with my 5" RFX. It climbed well, but felt like a soft tail bike, not a full suspender. If you value smooth climbing over all else, look at a Moots YBB or a custom steel hardtail. If you want to see what this whole suspension thing is about and really put those heart rate monitor days behind you, get the Turner.

    On a Turner with the propedal completely offf, you'll be distracted by the suspension movement as you pedal at first, but it really doesn't affect your clmbing speed much, and if there are bumps in the climb, it will be a lot better to have a suspension that works. I don't know if PUSH or others can work on the Mav shock now, but the proprietary shock was also a turn off for me. With a Turner, you have a range of air or coil shocks from various manufacturers with the option of PUSH Industries massaging of the Fox RP series or DHX coil.
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  24. #24
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    If you study the suspension designs of the Klein Mantra and Maverick, you will find them to be very different. The pivot locations are completely different. The mono-link provides a double pivot arrangement around the bottom bracket that produces a very different axle path. The Klein Mantra axle path I believe will be a clockwise circle. The Maverick axle patch is up and back. The descents on this bike are smoother than I experienced on my 5" travel X5. The smooth descents were one of the compelling facets of this bike that convinced me to buy it.

  25. #25
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    Low sugar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    I have the Flux and it is an excellent bike. I have it set up for trail riding with 2.25 Nobby Nics/819s and pretty durable parts with little bling. I love the way it handles. In the steeper stuff away from the Front Range, the Spot would be a blast, especially with the new PUSH rockers. However, I'd still like to have a 4" travel bike that is nimble and handles well. The thing is that I have two now (El Salt and a Flux) and I really want a Spot as well (with the PUSH rockers). I can't make myself sell one get the Spot so I'm stuck till I get some more cash saved up. Maybe I can get the Spot too- piece by piece.

    For stuff like most of the Front Range and the higher elevations, I like having two bikes since the Flux is fast and almost intuitive while the Spot can be taken to the rougher stuff. If I had to have ONE... oh, I can't do it. I have to have two. Sorry, I mentally flipped between the Flux/Salty and the Spot and just decided I would be no good to this thread since I can't live with just one bike right now. Ignore my babbling- I'm really low on sugar right now.
    And yet your punctuation is just flawless. Very impressive.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by testtech
    The Maverick axle patch is up and back.
    Ahh, so you get more chain extention and pedal feedback on the maverick. (yes, the intermediate link will keep the distance smaller, but the more you have an "up and back" axle path the more the distance will get greater from the BB to the axle, compared to something like the Klein. Also does that mean the BB moves more on the Maverick?


    You do realize that Giant axed Paul Turner's design back in 1996-7 or so?
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokermtb
    but, any other URT I've ridden provide a disturbing vibro-foot-massage singapore style foot caning when pointed downhill, but they all climb like goats [bikes I've ridden - klein mantra + schwinn URT]

    Ahhh, this brings back memories of the countless legionnaires proclaiming "I haven't ridden the Turner TNT, but every other Faux Bar I've ridden had <insertsuckinesshere>".....

  28. #28
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    Without going into why different suspension designs work or don't work for different people; bottom line is that I can ride faster on a ML7/5 than on a Blur. After riding/racing a Blur for three years I went to a ML7/5 with a DUC32 thinking I might of went a little to extreme with suspension travels (6" front, 5" rear). After riding and racing almost a full season, I can honestly say I'm faster on the Maverick. And my Maverick rig is almost a pound lighter than my old Blur.
    Again, this is all relative to each individual rider and the areas that they ride. Also there is alot to "getting used" to different rides. I noticed a difference in the way the Maverick pedaled right from the start, but that quickly faded away with time in the saddle. The reason for this was that the Maverick was so responsive when pedaling. And I never noticed any pedal feedback or bobbing from the Maverick. I'm sure you would be happy with any of these frame choices. Just my 2 cents.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by testtech
    My actual experience is that the ML8 climbs better than any bike I have previously ridden. Try one, then comment.
    And my actual experience is that anonymous people like you generally don't ride the kinds of trails I ride, at the speeds I ride, climbing the same way I do, and therefore your "actual experience" is relevant only to you and your tiny microcosm of Maverick superiority.

    People go to amazing lengths to justify their Yuppie Sleds.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Article 48
    And my actual experience is that anonymous people like you generally don't ride the kinds of trails I ride, at the speeds I ride, climbing the same way I do, and therefore your "actual experience" is relevant only to you and your tiny microcosm of Maverick superiority.

    People go to amazing lengths to justify their Yuppie Sleds.
    I was doubtful at first about you being Gonzo/Uncle Crud, but I think this post just convinced me.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotto
    And I never noticed any pedal feedback or bobbing from the Maverick. I'm sure you would be happy with any of these frame choices. Just my 2 cents.
    What? No "bobbing"? Wow! You obviously read mtn bike magazines and believe the crap their writers spout about bikes that "bob" and how that "bobbing" is so danged horrible. In case you didn't realize this, a bike's suspension is supposed to absorb bumps. In order to do that, it must react. The reaction shows action at the rear shock. You can call this "bob" if you want to show your ignorance, but those of us who know the point of suspension realize that "bob" is a ruse followed by the ignorant.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    I was doubtful at first about you being Gonzo/Uncle Crud, but I think this post just convinced me.
    Now you really are stretching your brain's arms to reach a pre-ordained conclusion!

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Article 48
    Now you really are stretching your brain's arms to reach a pre-ordained conclusion!
    Sounds like something one might find in a fortune cookie


  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Sounds like something one might find in a fortune cookie

    What is an "Uncle Crud" anyway?

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Article 48
    What? No "bobbing"? Wow! You obviously read mtn bike magazines and believe the crap their writers spout about bikes that "bob" and how that "bobbing" is so danged horrible. In case you didn't realize this, a bike's suspension is supposed to absorb bumps. In order to do that, it must react. The reaction shows action at the rear shock. You can call this "bob" if you want to show your ignorance, but those of us who know the point of suspension realize that "bob" is a ruse followed by the ignorant.

    Well, bobbing is a common term people understand, and it's actually a good term to describe the feeling you get when the suspension is "over-reacting" I guess.

    So explain this Mr suspension guru, when I first bought my Burner with the Manipoo it bobbed, the shock was adjusted correctly but I just noticed a slight bouncy feeling, or bob. I slapped an RP3 on there and presto, no more bobbing, what happened? It was the same suspension that was just reacting to bumps like it was supposed to.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK_
    Maverick is right smack down in the middle of the Front Range.
    wonder where the owner has been hiding...

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    Well, bobbing is a common term people understand, and it's actually a good term to describe the feeling you get when the suspension is "over-reacting" I guess.

    So explain this Mr suspension guru, when I first bought my Burner with the Manipoo it bobbed, the shock was adjusted correctly but I just noticed a slight bouncy feeling, or bob. I slapped an RP3 on there and presto, no more bobbing, what happened? It was the same suspension that was just reacting to bumps like it was supposed to.
    It is a fool's errant to try to ascribe scientific probative value to someone's subjective experience.

    In other words, your story sounds a lot like Mr Maverick's story above.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Article 48
    It is a fool's errant to try to ascribe scientific probative value to someone's subjective experience.
    AH HA!, you are Gonz Too much spin on that answer, your showing your political savvy.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    AH HA!, you are Gonz Too much spin on that answer, your showing your political savvy.
    I have no political savvy, but I do like to talk about political issues. I'm pretty ignorant, politically speaking. My friends remind me of that whenever we talk politics.

    I am not "Gonz" but on MTBR.com it seems I am commonly mistaken for that character. You should see what the Politics forum people say. For a while there, about a month ago, they spent more time arguing over whether I was "Gonz" than whether my posts had anything worth arguing over.

  40. #40
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    Sigh. I don't know why you guys didn't believe me.

  41. #41
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    gonzostrikes technical contributions to this forum were always appreciated. It would be nice to see him return and represent his riding philosphy and keep it at that.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokermtb
    I hope I'm proven wrong!

    but, any other URT I've ridden provide a disturbing vibro-foot-massage singapore style foot caning when pointed downhill, but they all climb like goats [bikes I've ridden - klein mantra + schwinn URT]
    Your opinion is useless until you've spent some time on a Maverick.
    I could say that every single pivot that I've ever ridden had a big problem with the back wheel skipping every time I hit the brakes, but if I had never spent time on the TNT 5 Spot, would my observation be an accurate observation of how Turners ride? Not really.

    the monolink URT is a hell of a lot different than the Szabo or Scwhinn or whatever it was that you rode.

    Just ask my riding buddies how slow I am downhill on the ML 7/5.

  43. #43
    JTP
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    Scotto just nailed it

    Quote Originally Posted by Scotto
    Without going into why different suspension designs work or don't work for different people; bottom line is that I can ride faster on a ML7/5 than on a Blur. After riding/racing a Blur for three years I went to a ML7/5 with a DUC32 thinking I might of went a little to extreme with suspension travels (6" front, 5" rear). After riding and racing almost a full season, I can honestly say I'm faster on the Maverick. And my Maverick rig is almost a pound lighter than my old Blur.
    Again, this is all relative to each individual rider and the areas that they ride. Also there is alot to "getting used" to different rides. I noticed a difference in the way the Maverick pedaled right from the start, but that quickly faded away with time in the saddle. The reason for this was that the Maverick was so responsive when pedaling. And I never noticed any pedal feedback or bobbing from the Maverick. I'm sure you would be happy with any of these frame choices. Just my 2 cents.
    I went from a Ventana El Saltamontes to a Turner 5spot to a Maverick ML8. I like them all but without a doubt the Maverick is the best for me where I ride. My ML8 is 29# with 6.5" rear and 6" front. it climbs great as long as you are pushing a reasonable gear. I try to always climb in the middle ring but granny climbing works as well. I think it stiffens a little when you are out of the saddle which is a good thing. I like to climb tech sections out of the saddle and the bike just flat out works great in this situtation. Downhills are obviously fast on a bike this stiff with plenty of smooth travel front and rear. The ML8 with the monolink basically rides like a long travel XC bike with tremendous tech abilities. the front shifting works fine. you dont feel any movement at the cranks. It is a hoot to ride.

  44. #44
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTP
    I think it stiffens a little when you are out of the saddle which is a good thing. I like to climb tech sections out of the saddle and the bike just flat out works great in this situtation.
    So less traction is good for technical uphills?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  45. #45
    JTP
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    the slight stiffening of the rear suspension works for me when I get my butt of the saddle in a tech climbing situation.

  46. #46
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    Funny

    Quote Originally Posted by JTP
    the slight stiffening of the rear suspension works for me when I get my butt of the saddle in a tech climbing situation.
    Slight stiffening or not, I never notice the rear suspension. Which means it is working like it's designed to work. But, don't bother trying to defend your Maverick here...nobody cares.

    I find it humorous that the thread was even started here.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by MINImtnbiker
    Slight stiffening or not, I never notice the rear suspension. Which means it is working like it's designed to work. But, don't bother trying to defend your Maverick here...nobody cares.

    I find it humorous that the thread was even started here.
    I had no idea there were so many Maverick haters out there. Weird. It's a damm good bike. I'd buy one again.

  48. #48
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    If it rides like a yeti....

    Quote Originally Posted by dobbs
    I had no idea there were so many Maverick haters out there. Weird. It's a damm good bike. I'd buy one again.

    If the maverick is as hyped as the yeti 575, I would totally pass..... One thing I know is that you can not go wrong with a Turner...

    The turner suspension is quiet... shhhhhh...
    Sit and spin my ass...

  49. #49
    JTP
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    Maverick ML8 pics

    A fun bike
    Attached Images Attached Images

  50. #50
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    Damm some of you folks sure are intolerant of other designs. I understand TS's experience but some of the other comments seem rather unfair.

    I ride with JTP on occasion. As he said he went from a Salty to a Spot to a Mav... the guy knows what he likes and isn't a member of the bike of the month club... each scooter he had he held onto for a few years. Matter o'fact he and I got our Spots three years ago from the same dealer.(I had to wait for them to finish building his while my was on the wall!) We ride the same trails and sadly, even on a huffy he'd still smoke me.

    The Mavs and the Turners are very different bikes. If one makes you happy then Kewl beans!!! If not it's great to have choices.

    I can think of a dozen reasons why I chose the turner over a blizzard of other bikes It does not mean they suck ... brand bagging is lame.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  51. #51
    "Its All Good"
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    Those Mav's do look sweet in the flesh too........... Got a nice surprise when I saw one in the US of A on a trip................ Say no more on this topic in here...............
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  52. #52
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    well, I guess I'll ask it,,,,,,,,,can you feel any movement or impacts thru your feet on a mav?

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokermtb
    well, I guess I'll ask it,,,,,,,,,can you feel any movement or impacts thru your feet on a mav?
    I have not noticed impacts through my feet. Unless I look down and see the movement of the front derailleur, I can't perceive the movement of the bottom bracket while riding. It is possible that the displacement of the bottom bracket is simply too small to feel.

  54. #54
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    well, if that is the case, and it's imperceptible then that issue must have been licked or it's really not a big deal after all on Mavericks. It's a cool looking bike, and I guess I'm glad it's not afflicted w/ the unified rear end curse.

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