Marta vs Juicy 7 for new Spot- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Marta vs Juicy 7 for new Spot

    I hope folks don't mind if I post this on the Turner forum instead of the brakes forum - I have more confidence that I'll get quality replies, and besides, this gets a little complicated. Bear with me while I set the scene.
    I'll be putting together an '07 Spot over the winter. I'm buying it from our local outdoor shop - they're starting to do bikes. They have a part time mechanic who will help me put it together. This has really ticked off my LBS owner (he's a temperamental guy anyway, and his attitude is basically that we local riders in this very rural area of NY owe him a living, even if he doesn't carry the stuff we want). I am not going to be able to count on him to work on the bike when it needs repairs. And here's the most important bit of info: my mechanical apptitude is lousy. I'm as bad as Tcheezy is good. Scary, eh? It is my new resolution to get better at this, though (think silk purse, sow's ear).
    I'm going for a light build. Want to come in around 26-27 lbs. I'm pretty easy on bikes, and enjoy climbing and long rides (but I still want to go Spot instead of Flux). Everything points to Magura Martas for brakes - light, reliable, etc. However, it is my understanding, perhaps incorrect, they can be a bit fussy, and I'd like to be able to adjust and work on them myself (after the part time mechanic does the original set up). This has led me to consider getting Juicy 7s (or more likely, Carbon Juicys for the weight), because I hear they are easier to adjust and maintain, but I also hear all sorts of stories about squealing and maybe poorer quality overall. For what it's worth I currently have a Juicy 5 front brake, and it shuddered bad until I switched the wavy rotor for a round one and it still squeals loud when wet (unlike my old XT brake). I'm inclined to go with the Martas unless the feedback I get from this post tells me otherwise.
    So here's the question: Any good reason NOT to go with the Martas? Many thanks.

  2. #2
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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    heres somthin to chew on. if ya like lite brakes that dont need alot of attention, consider the xtr's. i keep hearin lots of good things and have for a few years now. no squeal either.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  3. #3
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bula
    So here's the question: Any good reason NOT to go with the Martas? Many thanks.
    None.
    It's a good brake and Magura's customer service is second to none. You can still actually call them up and talk to a lead tech.
    Plus, you'll have the services of the Magura Cult folks at your disposal over on the brake board as well as the Magura Cult Website.

    Bleeding Maguras are a bit trickier than some others but not that big a deal. Just follow the instructions.

    BTW, Juicy 7 & carbon Juicy are the same brake aside from a few carbon bits that save a total of 10gm. Not worth the extra cash. The new Juicy Ultimates are quite yummy however.

    The other brake to consider is the Hope Mono Mini. Been super happy with mine and prefer the feel of Hope over Magura. Hopes have a more distinct engagement point with more rapid onset of power. Weight is in the same ballpark of Marta. Hopes bleed easier than Magura and you can still talk directly with their US customer service.

  4. #4
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    Thanks CC. I should add I'm going with SRAM X9 shifters and derailleurs. Shimano brakes wouldn't work with those, would they? I really like my older XT brakes, and would stay with them if I could (Burner is being sold).

  5. #5
    Nothing here
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bula
    Thanks CC. I should add I'm going with SRAM X9 shifters and derailleurs. Shimano brakes wouldn't work with those, would they? I really like my older XT brakes, and would stay with them if I could (Burner is being sold).
    Should work out. I have a mix of Shimano XTR brakes and and SRAM derailleurs.

  6. #6
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    since you really like your XT brakes, and they will actually fit, why not go with those......

    they are stupid reliable, definetely not as culturous, but you can get pads at any bike shop in the country for them....and super easy to bleed. All you need is one of those big vetrinarian style syringes [no needle], a small length of clear tubing, some automotive type mineral oil, and a rag. All the bleeding techniques from all the manufacturers are stupid - the easiest way is to bottom bleed the from the caliper to the master cylinder on the bar [don't forget to loosen the master cylinder cap!] - air bubbles like to travel up, so why not bleed from the bottom and drive the air right out, and the mineral oil will not damage the paint on your brake lever or the bike itself if you get sloppy. Takes 5 minutes....maguras and shimano both use mineral oil, but you can't use the drug store type, only real automotive hydraulic mineral oil.

    good luck in your search, but as for the avids...that turkey gobble sound has got to go.....

  7. #7
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    Bula, I would suggest the Magura Louise. Cheaper than the Marta. Lighter than the Avid Juicy. Great feel, modulation, power. And quiet, too.

  8. #8
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    I would second the Mono Mini. Zero hassles, zero tending, zero drag, noise only until break in, and excellent feel. Break in for the pads, as well as the rotors are long, but worth it. I complained a bit about too much surface area being removed from the rotor surface and affecting braking, but it seems to have worn together well enough that I don't have any troubles, although if you want sick power, you will go with the same rotor size from a different manufacturer with as few holes as possible. That's a nice tip to try out.

    The best compliment I could give these things was I put them on and simply used them. Set it and forget it is the best thing I could say about them. I'm not spacing my pads out periodically and cold rides or hot during this fall, I don't have dragging pads.

  9. #9
    No, that's not phonetic
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    I have owned Juicys, Louise, Louise FR, and Martas. I would recommend, in order, Louise or Louise FR (same brake, diff color), Marta, Juicy. If you don't like the squeal from your current Juicy, definitely look at the Maguras. I ride in constant wet weather and my Maguras are pretty much dead silent all the time. I own 5 sets of Louise/FR and 1 set of Martas. I had two sets of Juicys but sold them because the wet weather squeal drove me nuts, and I tried EVERYTHING to shut them up. Pads, rotors, you name it. If bleeds get messy, the Maguras also use mineral oil so it won't dissolve your bike.

    My Maguras have been very non-fussy, and reliable. I tend to swap caliper and parts a lot so I end up having to bleed about once a year because I introduce bubbles myself. Otherwise I think they would probably never need it. Power is good, pad life is great, modulation is very good. Once they are shimmed and set up, you can forget about them.

    No real experience with Shimano brakes other than on demo rigs at Ibike.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  10. #10
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    Sorry to hijack, but it may be relevant to some.

    My LBS has what appears to be a killer deal on Magura Louise brakes. It's one of those too-good-to-be-true deals and I'm just wondering if the line experienced some growing pains.

    Do certain Louise model-years suck? I've read all of the reviews on mtbr.com and it seems that 2003 and before caused people some grief like leaking and extreme brake fade). The ones on sale will most certainly be 2005s or older and I'm wondering if they're going cheap because they're known to be problematic.

    ** Edit:
    To help offset my hijacking: Bula, I would chose something other than Avids. Don't get me wrong, they're decent brakes, but the low-volume gobbling/squealing is getting a bit old.

    I rode my hardtail the other day with its Hayes brakes and was shocked by the silence. I had simply gotten used to the noise of the Avids but now it's really starting to get on my nerves.
    Last edited by big_olly; 10-23-2006 at 08:03 AM.

  11. #11
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Just avoid the older style with the round reservoir caps. Color does not matter.

    Older:



    Newer:

    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  12. #12
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    I've seen that above POS with square caps on the res, too. Keep an eye out and stay way away.

  13. #13
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    Noted JC, thanks! I'm going to the shop tomorrow to actually look at them. From the pictures above it looks like the reservoir body and caliper are slightly different also---hopefully it'll be enough to help me identify which version I'm looking at. If in doubt, I won't buy 'em.

    Thanks for the info guys, I really appreciate it.

  14. #14
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    It's a single piston POS. You'll see the piston stuff on one side and a flat plate with a hex in the middle on the wheel side.

  15. #15
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    Hmmm. So there's essentially only one moving pad on the older models? No wonder it's a POS: it would need to deflect the disc to trap it between the pads! That can't be good.

    Well, that's a pretty damn good way of telling which is which though!

    Thanks for the heads-up.

  16. #16
    trail fairy
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    As the big Chees said Louise

    My 2c 2004 onward Louise FRS have a great rep plus 5yr leak proof warranty
    Ive not been an Avid fan and this occurred while I had an Avid J7 on my bike for awille waiting for the right adaptor. I hated it and still do arghh but this is just me, I have the same relationship with the Fox 36 and Shimano I just can't get past

    The new Ultimate and even code do look great umm, but the new Louise 07 is the same weight as XTR but with the Louise FR power, mine arrive this week with carbon bat tech these are going on my Spot less weight than current Louise FRs not that I care about the weight but more stopping power yeahhaaa plus even easier setup and pad removal with wheels in place minor but still nice touch

    I actually wanted Formula Puros but these were easier to get for me and Im well looked after plus I keep my bike consistent the old Louise FRs are going on my RFX with bigger rotors

    Louise have ;ots of rotor options, you can also go standard or the new venti discs Ive plopped for these to try them out see how they hang vs the braking rotors I use now.

    magura

    The new Hopes look nice too and are well made, man the choices
    Ps Ive used Shimano brakes and don't like em had there day with the older 03 XTs, but they even seem yuk to the new stuff.

    1 - Magura
    2 - Formula
    3 - Hope
    4 - Avid

    Note depending on yr bike specc you might find Marta's a little limiting on power (very nice) even with the 180mm rotor course depends on yr weight and riding style, I'd put the XTRs in this catagory as well, I'd rec 180m fr 160m r minimum.

    Enjoy
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  17. #17
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    I have Avid J7's but would not do it again. Nice feel and they do stop the bike but...both reservoirs developed leaks within a year and the squeal!

    Ndo
    Kia ora (Good health)

  18. #18
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    07 maguras not "fussy"

    [QUOTE=Bula]Everything points to Magura Martas for brakes - light, reliable, etc. However, it is my understanding, perhaps incorrect, they can be a bit fussyQUOTE]

    Usually when people say maguras are fussy they are referring to the shim setup (although its pretty easy). if i understand correctly most of the 07 magura line come Post-Mount-with-IS-adapter (similar to hayes, avid, shimano) so no more shims.

    Ive had hayes, avid and magura hydros and by far prefer the maguras, so if I'm right about 07 then they just got even better.

  19. #19
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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    yep. ive been reseachin the maguras over the weekend and they are indeed post mount. shims are history. thats one thing i didnt take into account when i was pizzin and moanin about the departure from IS mounts earlyer this year.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  20. #20
    Bring Back Buck
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    What brake...

    FWIW,
    I've been running Hope M4's trouble free on my 5 Spot for 2 years. Only thing I've done to them is bleed the system when I put on a new 203mm front caliper, floating rotors and Goodrich hoses.

    In saying that, I'm trying out some Formula K24's on my 2002 RFX (I get all the parts early in Nov). From what I've read, they're pretty reliable too. Will let everyone know how they go after I've been to Wales on the 11th of Nov.

    BBB.

  21. #21
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    I recently switched from Mono Mini's to Formula K-24's, what a difference. The Formula's are easy to set up & substantially more powerful. The best part of all, no sqealing! For some reason the Hopes would develop a rather annoying squeal over time, and yes i tried everything. The tabs were properly faced, the calipers aligned with spacers, and I kept them clean and free of oil & grime. The Formulas have not developed any sqeal in over 2 months - no maintenance required!

    I've also tried Juicy 7's (mounted on a friends bike). They are good brakes, stronger than the Hopes but not as strong as the Formulas. I vote for the Formlas (if they are an option)

    Hope this helps.

  22. #22
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    Second that. I'm becoming a Formula evangelist, it seems. They're really, really good. You could go for the Oro Puro if you're concerned with weight, but the K24s are awesome brakes. Just another thing to consider.

    I noodled around on a friends' bike with Carbon Juicys, and the levers just felt less, umm, solid than the Formulas. You could wiggle the levers up and down. The power seemed good though - so I'm not bagging on them. But the Formulas are SOLID, all the way round.
    Last edited by DLine; 10-23-2006 at 12:05 PM.

  23. #23
    No, that's not phonetic
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    All the Formulas we tried at Interbike seemed nice. No issues to report, and they were on a surprising number of bikes. Cannot recall all the bikes or models.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  24. #24
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    Follow up to my earlier post: the Margura's on sale were in fact the old, single-piston variety. Round reservoir cap.

    Thanks to tscheezy and Jerk Chicken for saving me from making a mistake. I owe ya each a beer!
    Last edited by big_olly; 10-23-2006 at 09:00 PM.

  25. #25
    Daniel the Dog
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    Hard to say

    The Magura brakes I rode were almost silent. Nice! I just hated the shim system. I prefer slotted designs. That said, I have ridden Marta's, Louise's, and now J7. The J7 are very nice but do make a bit of noise in the wet. They are almost very Taiwanese in looks and quality. Maybe that isn't bad. I have not found the perfect brake system yet. The new XT 765 is very nice. Maybe Formula is the cat's meow. Might try them or the new Hope's slotted ones this spring. Not sure yet. I keep getting such good deals on brake systems that it is fun to try the new ones and sell the old ones. Fairly cheap exchange to try new brakes.

    Jaybo

  26. #26
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    Formula is the bomb!

    I've been using the K24's for six months and the are a no brainer, especially for someone who is not mechanically inclined. I'm using F180/R160 with no noise and no hassel. They have lots of power and modulation, the weight is only about an ounce more than the puro's and the price is very reasonable especially compared the the puro's or the Marta SL's.

    What's not to like?

    Cheers,

    Kane

  27. #27
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    Thanks

    Thanks all for the great advice and guidance. I hadn't even considered Forumlas, but will now. The Juicys are definitely out.

    Any comments on tech support and replacement pads for Formula?

  28. #28
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    How easy is it to find replacement/spare parts for the Formulas? I mean what if you go biking somewhere on vacation and the thing needs some repair, is the LBS likely to have the goods? Kno whut I mean?

  29. #29
    Bodhisattva
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    Not so easy. The major wholesalers have Formula parts but very few shops I've come across stock those bits. Same can be said for most brakes aside from Shimano & Hayes which account for the majority of OEM systems.

    This summer I was in Vail and blew out a set of Hope Mono Mini pads. There are nine shops in the Vail Valley and none had Hope pads. Blew my mind

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Not so easy. The major wholesalers have Formula parts but very few shops I've come across stock those bits. Same can be said for most brakes aside from Shimano & Hayes which account for the majority of OEM systems.

    This summer I was in Vail and blew out a set of Hope Mono Mini pads. There are nine shops in the Vail Valley and none had Hope pads. Blew my mind
    Carry spares like me

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bula
    Thanks all for the great advice and guidance. I hadn't even considered Forumlas, but will now. The Juicys are definitely out.

    Any comments on tech support and replacement pads for Formula?

    I would HIGHLY recommend the Formula's. Customer service is fantastic, you'd be hard pressed to find better. Chris and Greg reply to posts in the brake forum and you'll almost always get one of them when you call as well. As far as pads, you can find 'em online or get them directly from Formula. You'd be wise to have a set as a spare, most shops probably won't have them.

    http://content.mtbr.com/TRD_13_291crx.aspx

  32. #32
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    Most common Formula parts are available through QBP, so most shops can get them ordered in no problem. I had a tough time shortening my hoses the first time out (not the brake's fault - these were my first hydros, and it was a learning experience) and I called 3 shops before lucking into one that had the fittings I needed on hand.

  33. #33
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    real world

    You need to carry extra pads for any brakes that you ride. any rotor will work in a pinch if size up the rotor. What else breaks on the brake systems?

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