Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    194

    Lowering Czar front end with a 120 fork.. Or changing HA with an AngleSet..?

    So i've had my Czar for 3 years now and have had a 100mm fox 32, 120 SID, and now have a 120 Fox 34, Which is a far superior fork in all regards.

    My only complaint is the height of the front end and how it affects handling on fast repeated turns (and on very steep climbs). The axle to crown height of the '16/'17 Fox 34 is 527mm, which about 8mm more then the 120mm RockShox SID it replaced, that i would say was almost perfect handling wise, maybe a small bit high still..

    Those 8mm's made a noticeable difference to the handling that i cant fully warm up to despite riding it for a few months now.. I'm totally sold on the performance of the 34 in all other situations, so downgrading to a lesser 32 fork doesnt seem practical, but i'm looking for some other possible options?

    I'm running the stock zero stack headset, and I've obviously lowered my stem and even switched to a totally flat bar, but the increased A2C height is still noticeable.. I have been toying with the idea of trying an AngleSet headset and steepening the HA .5 ~ 1 degrees to try and offset the effects of the higher A2C.. Has anyone played with that at all?

    I believe the 120 Pikes are even more then Fox's 527mm A2C so i dont think switching to a pike would help me.. Unless im wrong on that measure please correct me..

    The other option I considered was lowering the 34 to 110 mm which would probably fix my complaint but I can't decide if I'd miss those 10mm travel or not.. I know we're splitting hairs here talking about 8 10 20 mm but hell, might as well strive for perfect, right..

    Any thoughts/opinions or discussion otherwise welcome.. thanks

  2. #2
    jrm
    jrm is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jrm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    11,035
    It seems like you could achieve the same results using the:

    Offset Eyelet Lower Pin Kit - Turner Bikes

    Im not sure if it will lower the font end though. It didnt on my flux but im happy with the HA combined with the 140 34 fork.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    194
    Quote Originally Posted by jrm View Post
    It seems like you could achieve the same results using the:

    Offset Eyelet Lower Pin Kit - Turner Bikes

    Im not sure if it will lower the font end though. It didnt on my flux but im happy with the HA combined with the 140 34 fork.
    Oh nice, I like that idea a lot.. but the Czar isn't listed as a model it fits.. Will have to look into it

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by hiss2 View Post
    Oh nice, I like that idea a lot.. but the Czar isn't listed as a model it fits.. Will have to look into it

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
    Which offset are you using? That could have more effect than the a to c

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    194
    Quote Originally Posted by Nonk View Post
    Which offset are you using? That could have more effect than the a to c
    51mm offset.. that's the recommended one for a 120, correct?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,610
    Yes the new Fox 34 performance is amazing. It's real easy to get the bar back to where you want it with a stem change.

    Even if the offset bushing would fit, which with 8mm bolt it will not, it would make your situation worse as the rear would go down and the stem would actually go up a bit, unless you flipped it to raise the rear and that would drop the hands a bit as your arse goes up. But it dont fit.

    DT

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    194
    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Yes the new Fox 34 performance is amazing. It's real easy to get the bar back to where you want it with a stem change.

    Even if the offset bushing would fit, which with 8mm bolt it will not, it would make your situation worse as the rear would go down and the stem would actually go up a bit, unless you flipped it to raise the rear and that would drop the hands a bit as your arse goes up. But it dont fit.

    DT
    Thanks for the reply Dave! I don't think it's the stem height so much as the resulting head angle that's bugging me.. I've already lowered the bar a fair amount. That offset bushing would probably be the ticket, if it fit.. I might experiment with the 34 @ 110mm, as I have one setup at 110 on my hardtail and would be an easy test swap..

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,610
    If the head angle is too slack, let a little air out of the fork until its drooping 20% and turn in low speed compression a wee bit so it stays stable with less pressure, then add air in shock till you only have 8mm of sag ready to ride. shocks and fork loose air at different rates, so once you are dialed write the pressures down and check on a schedule.

    Is your bar in exactly the same location as the previous set up? If not, that's still to be addressed. Until you get the hands/feet/seat relationship back to original the rest is just guessing.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    926
    Also... you can find offset shock bushings with an 8mm bore. Obviously you won't get the same offset as the bore's center won't have moved as much as a 6mm bore, but it's worth a shot as it's a relatively low cost experiment. You can also run two... upper and lower


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    23,589
    Easiest firking solution, not sure why you didn't just try this first up Far as I know they went back to the push pin system/snap on spacers on the 16/17 F34s, so you can easily cut/machine down a snap on spacer 8mm instead of 10 if you really wanted to get technical.

    Quote Originally Posted by hiss2 View Post
    Thanks for the reply Dave! I don't think it's the stem height so much as the resulting head angle that's bugging me.. I've already lowered the bar a fair amount. That offset bushing would probably be the ticket, if it fit.. I might experiment with the 34 @ 110mm, as I have one setup at 110 on my hardtail and would be an easy test swap..
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    194
    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Easiest firking solution, not sure why you didn't just try this first up Far as I know they went back to the push pin system/snap on spacers on the 16/17 F34s, so you can easily cut/machine down a snap on spacer 8mm instead of 10 if you really wanted to get technical.
    yeah yeah i know, just didnt like the idea of giving up any travel if possible- its too much fun with that 34..

    And, Fox says you have to replace the entire air shaft to change the travel on the current 34's.. though they're only like $35.. https://www.ridefox.com/help.php?m=bike&id=615

    Quote Originally Posted by incubus View Post
    Also... you can find offset shock bushings with an 8mm bore. Obviously you won't get the same offset as the bore's center won't have moved as much as a 6mm bore, but it's worth a shot as it's a relatively low cost experiment. You can also run two... upper and lower
    Know of a source for them? i was considering making one.. have lathe and/or multiple machinist friends.. but buying one make more sense if available..

    Good thinking on running two if needed

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    926
    Quote Originally Posted by hiss2 View Post
    ...Know of a source for them? i was considering making one.. have lathe and/or multiple machinist friends.. but buying one make more sense if available..

    Good thinking on running two if needed
    Sure thing...

    https://www.offsetbushings.com/colle...-bushings-pair

    Taken straight from the above-linked page...

    Quote Originally Posted by Offset Bushings
    Average adjustment - Pair of Offset Bushings

    6mm diameter - 3mm offset each, ~ 1.5 head angle adjustment.
    8mm diameter - 2mm offset each, ~ 1.0 head angle adjustment.
    10mm diameter - 1mm offset each, ~ 0.5 head angle adjustment.
    3/8" (old Santa Cruz) also supported.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    24
    [QUOTE=hiss2;13201316]51mm offset.. that's the recommended one for a 120, correct?]

    Yes, 51 is the way.
    I was thinking about going to a 34 but have been worried about exactly the problem you're having. Even at under 150lbs, my 32/100 is bendy as hell, but that bike handles so amazingly well that I'm afraid to mess it up. There are a few trails I ride that are very busy, and require a lot of precision to go fast and the Czar never falters. I think I'd likely not be afraid to lose some travel in order to gain the stiffness and probably way better damping performance that the 34 has. I just put up with rebuilding my fork a lot because I'm always blowing the crap out of it.
    I grab the RFX when it gets chunky, but often that's like bringing a cannon to a knife fight.
    Either way, the Czar is still the best handling bike made.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,610
    One thing to keep in mind, if you use a couple offset shock eyes to steepen up the angles you will also raise the BB, might be a great thing in your terrain, or it could move the bike further from the zippy handling that you are trying to return too.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    23,589
    So you regularly use more than 75% travel more than once or twice on the trails you ride the Sultan on with the F34? I always believe in the Quality vs Quantity argument and lean towards quality and with the F34 vs the F32, the precision steering you gain means holding much better lines and not getting pushed off line where you need that extra travel to solve the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by hiss2 View Post
    yeah yeah i know, just didnt like the idea of giving up any travel if possible- its too much fun with that 34..
    Guess that was a change they made for the new fork then, because it wasn't the case last year, even the after market replacement air shaft they were offering, that was a feature they were returning to after a few years of it's absence.
    And, Fox says you have to replace the entire air shaft to change the travel on the current 34's.. though they're only like $35.. https://www.ridefox.com/help.php?m=bike&id=615
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    194
    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    So you regularly use more than 75% travel more than once or twice on the trails you ride the Sultan on with the F34? I always believe in the Quality vs Quantity argument and lean towards quality and with the F34 vs the F32, the precision steering you gain means holding much better lines and not getting pushed off line where you need that extra travel to solve the problem.
    I dont have a Sultan, but yes, I use 95%+ of my travel on the 34 regularly.. The bottom out tokens are great for that because you can run less air preload without bottoming out harshly

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    23,589
    Maybe it's time to bump up your pressure some then, because IMHO, you shouldn't regularly be using all of your travel, that should be reserved for the biggest hits you take on a ride, like once or twice a ride, unless you're riding constant 4ft> drop offs and even then you'd adjust pressures/setup to suit.
    Haven't ridden the new F34s, but can't imagine if you're regularly using most of the travel that the bike is feeling very supported most of the time, especially if you've got a load of volume spacers in there to stop bottom out - mid stroke must feel very mushy/wallowy.

    Quote Originally Posted by hiss2 View Post
    I dont have a Sultan, but yes, I use 95%+ of my travel on the 34 regularly.. The bottom out tokens are great for that because you can run less air preload without bottoming out harshly
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    194
    nah, it's setup just how i like it, mid stroke is fine.. i ride hard/fast in rocky east coast trails so its not necessary hits, but high speed rocky chunk that uses it up.. my sag is 25%, if not a bit less

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: funnyjr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    670
    OP what size czar outta curiosity?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Similar Threads

  1. Czar: Float 32 120 vs 120 Pike
    By Mr Magoo in forum Turner
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-08-2015, 02:38 PM
  2. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-17-2014, 05:34 PM
  3. Lowering travel on my 2013 Fox 34 Talas 120/160
    By Tjay in forum Shocks and Suspension
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-09-2013, 05:08 PM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-12-2011, 10:46 AM
  5. 07 Fox Vanilla RLC 32 Changing travel internally, lowering
    By bikerjay in forum Shocks and Suspension
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 04-21-2011, 11:06 AM

Members who have read this thread: 3

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.