To Juicy or…………not to Juicy- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 32 of 32
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    23

    To Juicy or…………not to Juicy

    Is the switch from Avid Mechanicals to Juicy 7's worth it?
    I'm a Burner East Coast trail rider with plenty of tight single-track, rock gardens, climbing and a few downhill's.
    Maintenance is not an issue.
    Is the increase in power, feel and adjustability worth switching?
    Is there a weight penalty or not?

    Any good Homer advice or thoughts?

  2. #2
    Te mortuo heres tibi sim?
    Reputation: scrublover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    8,846
    Quote Originally Posted by Hot-Rod
    Is the switch from Avid Mechanicals to Juicy 7's worth it?
    I'm a Burner East Coast trail rider with plenty of tight single-track, rock gardens, climbing and a few downhill's.
    Maintenance is not an issue.
    Is the increase in power, feel and adjustability worth switching?
    Is there a weight penalty or not?

    Any good Homer advice or thoughts?

    (non-homer lurker here....)

    i recently swapped both my hardtail, and 7x7" squishy over to juicy-5 setups. so, not quite the same as the 7, but close.

    maintenance has been a non issue. other than a one glitch during setup (screwed some stuff up during a cut/bleed-was totally my fault) they have been wownderful. so far, they have actually been less work, other than the cut/bleed, and general adjusting to get the levers where i wanted them/hoses routed. we'll see in the long run. it's only been a few months.

    power? no increase or loss that i noticed, but less hand fatigue over time, for the same braking power. this is a good thing. same rotor sizes and same pads as my mech setup.
    way better during slow speed picking through stuff, and getting up on the front wheel only for the once in a while move. that i now find myself doing more than before, due to the far greater modulation.

    feel? mucho way better modulation and overall better lever feel. only complaint is the levers have the *tiniest* amount of play, which i'm very picky about, and can't quite get rid of, even tightening things up. it's why i loved the Paul levers; easy to get rid of that. it's a non-issue at this point; doesn't bother me now.

    adjustability? has been a non-issue for me; i used Paul levers with my bb7 setup. didn't use or miss the speed dial stuff. of course, if you go for the 7 setup, you'll have the red dial to play with. i've played around with that on other folks bikes, and i'm not missing it, i feel.

    weight? assuming same rotor sizes, you should shave a little bit. i had a very light setup with mine, and i dropped about 80gms per set.

    i've been extremely happy with the swap to the juicy stuff!

    (yeah, i've played about with lightening my lever/calipers a bit more. same stuff i did with the mechs. no problems so far, or that i anticipate in the future.)
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Florence Nightingale's Stormtrooper

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    414
    Quote Originally Posted by Hot-Rod
    Is the switch from Avid Mechanicals to Juicy 7's worth it?
    I'm a Burner East Coast trail rider with plenty of tight single-track, rock gardens, climbing and a few downhill's.
    Maintenance is not an issue.
    Is the increase in power, feel and adjustability worth switching?
    Is there a weight penalty or not?

    Any good Homer advice or thoughts?
    I just upgraded to Juicy 5's, but then went back to the mechanicals. The Juicy's were nicer, with a more solid lever feel, but I had gotten used to the adjustability and tunability of the mechanicals paired with adjustable leverage Avid levers. I might also be that I was used to the feel of the mechanicals, but for me, the mechanicals work better. This is probably a minority opinion, and I wouldn't argue with anyone who prefers the Juicy's, but for me the mechanicals just work better.

    I guess the one thing I notice is that the relative "feel" of the Juicy's, or probably any hydro for that matter, can't be adjusted. I'm thinking about how solid they are when engaged vs during modulation. With the mechanicals and an adjustable lever I can go from mushy to super solid, depending on what I like. While many aspects of the Juicy's can be adjusted, this "lever feel" can't. While the lever feel of the Juicy's is probably superior to the mechanicals, I just personally have grown accustomed to the feel of the mechanicals.

    One nice upgrade option is the 185 mechanical front, I'm running 185 front 165 rear and love it. The 185 is a noticable improvement in stopping power, but with a slight increase in weight.

    James

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Legbacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,564

    Upgrade?

    I recently "upgraded" from BB7's to Juicy 7's on my 5 Spot because I needed another set of brakes for project. I also switched to 185 rotors on the front. A little nicer feel but no real benefit overs the mechs. If you need more brakes then try them if you have the money. They do look great though.
    Formerly Travis Bickle

    Team Robot. "modulation is code for I suck at brake control. Heres a free tip: get better."

  5. #5
    Sponsored by Xanax
    Reputation: Roostalee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    358
    I must be the only person still griping about the Juicy 7s' shuddering issue. Which I never could correct, even with round rotors and/or Tscheezy's dremeling technique.

    Yes, they stop well and modulate well.

  6. #6
    not so super...
    Reputation: SSINGA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    11,463
    I like my Juicy 7's. They are so easy and mess-free to bleed (make sure you buy the bleed kit - it comes with new crush washers you'll need when you shorten the hose).

    I just installed Goodridge lines on mine last night
    Nothing to see here.

  7. #7
    It's a Turner!
    Reputation: sirbikesalot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    524
    Funny - I just installed Goodridge lines on mine a few days ago. The stopping power of the Juicys is just incredible. I'll never go back to Hopes. Remember, the faster you can stop, the faster you can go.



    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    I like my Juicy 7's. They are so easy and mess-free to bleed (make sure you buy the bleed kit - it comes with new crush washers you'll need when you shorten the hose).

    I just installed Goodridge lines on mine last night
    I didn't just drink the koolaid, I stuck my head in the punchbowl.

  8. #8
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
    Reputation: cactuscorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    12,942
    tweeeeeeEEEEEEEEEeeeeet!!!! (lame impression of a navy ship sound) now hear this!

    avid mechanical brakes do modulate properly when used with the correct levers and set up well by someone who acctually knows how to garner everything outta the design. usin a non speed dial lever will not achive this no matter how hard ya try. full metal jackets only improve the feel of the bb7. plenty of power for xc and light d/h, i said LIGHT d/h, kids, and no shuddering too! a tad more weight than a juicy and maybe slightly less power as well. not that the juicys are bad mind ya, but till theyre perfect ill stick with my bb7's, as close to perfect as ive found for my own personal day to day uses. those who drop 2000 feet off the top of the rockies will surely dissagree. i dont live in the rockies.

    that is all.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  9. #9
    rr
    rr is offline
    I don't do PC
    Reputation: rr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    7,399
    Quote Originally Posted by Roostalee
    I must be the only person still griping about the Juicy 7s' shuddering issue. Which I never could correct, even with round rotors and/or Tscheezy's dremeling technique.
    Mine squeal bad in the wet(luckily I live in a dry climate) and they tend to only pulsate and shutter in dry/dusty conditions and not always then. Yesterday the trails were dry/perfect and the brakes were silent and I never felt any pulsating.

    Has anyone else had success with round or different rotors?

  10. #10
    not so super...
    Reputation: SSINGA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    11,463
    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    Mine squeal bad in the wet(luckily I live in a dry climate) and they tend to only pulsate and shutter in dry/dusty conditions and not always then. Yesterday the trails were dry/perfect and the brakes were silent and I never felt any pulsating.

    Has anyone else had success with round or different rotors?
    Mine came with 203mm round rotors
    Nothing to see here.

  11. #11
    Te mortuo heres tibi sim?
    Reputation: scrublover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    8,846
    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    tweeeeeeEEEEEEEEEeeeeet!!!! (lame impression of a navy ship sound) now hear this!

    avid mechanical brakes do modulate properly when used with the correct levers and set up well by someone who acctually knows how to garner everything outta the design. usin a non speed dial lever will not achive this no matter how hard ya try. full metal jackets only improve the feel of the bb7. plenty of power for xc and light d/h, i said LIGHT d/h, kids, and no shuddering too! a tad more weight than a juicy and maybe slightly less power as well. not that the juicys are bad mind ya, but till theyre perfect ill stick with my bb7's, as close to perfect as ive found for my own personal day to day uses. those who drop 2000 feet off the top of the rockies will surely dissagree. i dont live in the rockies.

    that is all.

    no,,no they don't tried many times with avid and other levers, speed dial and non. it's not that they don't modulate. it's that the juicys modulate *better* overall.

    FMJ? they sucked at least for me. i prefer the feel of unbroken housing. fewer possibly tnry points into your lines, even when the FMJ is nice and sealed up.

    and the same stopping power for less hand fatigue? for me, that's a no brainer.
    i had more shuddering and noise issuew with my mechs than with the juicys.
    Florence Nightingale's Stormtrooper

  12. #12
    Bite Me.
    Reputation: cutthroat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,531
    Mine squeal some when wet too, but the noise stops within seconds as the rotor heats up. I'm running the 203s up front in the new "Roundagon" style as well as the old Polygon style on the other wheelset. So far, there's been no pulsing on either, but I followed Tscheezy's tips on beveling the rotor edges with a chainsaw file before installing. The Mechs work great IMO and I live the Rockies and have run looong downhills w/o any problem. The mech vs. hydro debate will never be resolved w/o UN intervention
    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells

  13. #13
    Sponsored by Xanax
    Reputation: Roostalee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    358
    I'd consider putting a 185 rotor up front if it's compatible with my fork (don't you just need an adaptor from Avid?)...I've been told the 160's are the only ones that shudder.

  14. #14
    not so super...
    Reputation: SSINGA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    11,463
    Quote Originally Posted by Roostalee
    I'd consider putting a 185 rotor up front if it's compatible with my fork (don't you just need an adaptor from Avid?)...I've been told the 160's are the only ones that shudder.
    New adaptor and rotor is all it takes.
    Nothing to see here.

  15. #15
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
    Reputation: cactuscorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    12,942
    i guess its all in what ya feel and prefer so ill respect yer comments in that light. the modulation and power in my set up is phenominal in my local conditions and in az but perhaps im just lucky? i doubt it really. its all in the tune and use of bits. to me full length mech hosing feels like pullin on a bungie cord and the fmj's solve this for my tastes. im glad ya like yer juicys. out of the box they feel excellent and theres obvious advantages in many senarios. id get some if a few refinements were made for long term use.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  16. #16
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
    Reputation: cactuscorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    12,942
    somethin ive noticed on newer avids is a 160mm adaptor that looks more machined like a hayes in place of the older cast lookin avid piece. i wonder if this is designed to reduce or eliminate the stuttering feel. ill test it on my bb7's w/ center lock hubs next time out.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  17. #17
    Sponsored by Xanax
    Reputation: Roostalee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    358
    Cactus,

    I switched to Hayes rotors (V6) and the shuddering came right back.

  18. #18
    Too Much Fun
    Reputation: benja55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    2,316

    New question here.

    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    I just installed Goodridge lines on mine last night
    I'm going to be doing the same when I get my set. Any tips or pointers for adding the Goodridge lines to Juicys? I'm getting the bleed kit.

    -B
    - -benja- -

  19. #19
    not so super...
    Reputation: SSINGA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    11,463
    Quote Originally Posted by benja55
    I'm going to be doing the same when I get my set. Any tips or pointers for adding the Goodridge lines to Juicys? I'm getting the bleed kit.

    -B
    Make sure you get the right Goodridge kit for your brakes. The older 04 models have a different thread pitch on the levers. I think the newer ones take the 108 fittings???
    Nothing to see here.

  20. #20
    M070R-M0U7H FR3NCHI3
    Reputation: Acadian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,584

  21. #21
    rr
    rr is offline
    I don't do PC
    Reputation: rr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    7,399
    Quote Originally Posted by Roostalee
    I'd consider putting a 185 rotor up front if it's compatible with my fork (don't you just need an adaptor from Avid?)...I've been told the 160's are the only ones that shudder.
    What fork are you running? I might do this with my marathon XC, any issues with the bigger rotor on my fork?

  22. #22
    Bite Me.
    Reputation: cutthroat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,531
    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    What fork are you running? I might do this with my marathon XC, any issues with the bigger rotor on my fork?
    The 185s have the blessings of virtually all the fork manufacturers. when you go up to the 203s they start hemming and hawing about only doing it for 20mm thru axles BUT, you'll note that Avid makes a 203mm adaptor for forks with QRs - $10 at Jenson. These things are so over engineered that I doubt there's any real risk of running a 203 on a QR fork unless you are really thrashing the bike. Another case of the "lawyer tabs" IMO
    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells

  23. #23
    Sponsored by Xanax
    Reputation: Roostalee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    358
    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    What fork are you running? I might do this with my marathon XC, any issues with the bigger rotor on my fork?

    Fox Vanilla. I thought I read something about it being a no-no to put larger than 160 rotors on the Van. Something about too much torque on the lowers' brake mount.

  24. #24
    rr
    rr is offline
    I don't do PC
    Reputation: rr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    7,399
    So the larger front rotor should eliminate the pulsating huh, the rear doesn't seem to do it or I don't notice it.

    I will give the larger front rotor a try, thanks

  25. #25
    Bite Me.
    Reputation: cutthroat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,531
    Quote Originally Posted by Roostalee
    Fox Vanilla. I thought I read something about it being a no-no to put larger than 160 rotors on the Van. Something about too much torque on the lowers' brake mount.
    The 2004 Fox service manual advises not to put rotors larger than 180 on the forks. beginning in 2005 and also in 2006 they say you can mount rotors up to 203mm on their QR forks. I doubt they made any changes on the caliper mounts, but who knows. Anyway - this indicates to me that the issue is not whether the fork runs a QR or a through axle.
    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells

  26. #26
    Bad Case of the Mondays
    Reputation: Jdub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,009
    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    So the larger front rotor should eliminate the pulsating huh, the rear doesn't seem to do it or I don't notice it.

    I will give the larger front rotor a try, thanks
    I disagree. I had 1 185mm rotor that pulsated and another 185mm rotor that didn't. I've never had a 160mm rotor pulsate. My pulsating 185mm brake was cured by doing several things including TSCheezy bevelling, Goodridge lines, and Galfer pads. Not sure what ultimately stopped the shuddering, but something did as it is totally gone now.

    I honestly think it is like squealing where the miracle cure for some people doesn't work at all for others.

  27. #27
    rr
    rr is offline
    I don't do PC
    Reputation: rr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    7,399
    Quote Originally Posted by Jdub
    I disagree. I had 1 185mm rotor that pulsated and another 185mm rotor that didn't. I've never had a 160mm rotor pulsate. My pulsating 185mm brake was cured by doing several things including TSCheezy bevelling, Goodridge lines, and Galfer pads. Not sure what ultimately stopped the shuddering, but something did as it is totally gone now.

    I honestly think it is like squealing where the miracle cure for some people doesn't work at all for others.
    Great, well I don't want to bother with a different rotor if doesn't fix the problem for good, maybe I should try some other things like you mention first.

    thanks

  28. #28
    Bite Me.
    Reputation: cutthroat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,531
    Agreed - I wasn't insinuating that rotor size had anything to do with the pulsation issue. I've had no pulsing on any of my Avid Mechs either the 160s or the 203s.
    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells

  29. #29
    Bad Case of the Mondays
    Reputation: Jdub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,009
    Quote Originally Posted by Roostalee
    Dammit Jdub, I was hoping the 185s would be the ticket! Well, it's good to know. I'm definitely going to try out the Galfer pads as I've heard a few Juicy owners report positive things about them. But which color compound?
    Well don't let me stop you from trying it, it is just my opinion that size of the rotor isn't the entire problem.

    If I got another Juicy that shuttered, here is what I would try (in order):

    1. TSCheezy bevel - Easy to do, free, and may be the cure
    2. Galfer Pads - cheap to try, and I think better than stock pads
    3. Galfer Rotor - better alternative than trying another Avid rotor
    4. Goodridge Lines - Don't think this is the problem, but it was part of my ultimate solution so I include it anyway.

    I'm not 100% sure, but I believe my Galfer pads are the Red compound. I remember looking at red & green and asking Larry which to go with, and I believe it was red he recommended.

  30. #30
    Sponsored by Xanax
    Reputation: Roostalee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    358
    Dammit Jdub, I was hoping the 185s would be the ticket! Well, it's good to know. I'm definitely going to try out the Galfer pads as I've heard a few Juicy owners report positive things about them. But which color compound?

  31. #31
    Stand back
    Reputation: dbabuser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,206

    mechs are goood

    I do want to try a set of Juicys on my dh bike this year, but I raced in the Mountain States Cup downhill sport class last year with Avid mechs. Plenty of vertical drop per run, with races at Angelfire, Telluride, Crested Butte, and Keystone. I was out of town for Snowmass, unfortunately, but still finished 11th overall in my age group without entering any 4x events (dh and 4x finishes are all lumped together for the overall scores).
    I'm 190lbs sans gear, and I ran 8" ft/ 7" rr with XTR levers. I never had any trouble with fade, and any issues with forearm pump could also be attributed to my Breakout +. SPV is not so good for dh racing... The best part is, I can set them up to grab instantly for dh, or gradually for trailriding. I'm gonna be curious to see how quickly I adapt to not having that adjustment with hydros...
    Golden Bike Park

    Golden Connector Trails need your support!

  32. #32
    not so super...
    Reputation: SSINGA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    11,463
    Quote Originally Posted by dbabuser
    The best part is, I can set them up to grab instantly for dh, or gradually for trailriding. I'm gonna be curious to see how quickly I adapt to not having that adjustment with hydros...
    You won't loose that ability if you go with the Juicy 7. just turn the red dial and adjust for your liking.
    Nothing to see here.

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.