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  1. #1
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Idea! Instant tubeless. Wow.

    I have never adopted tubeless for a few reasons. I don't need it at home (no thorns, exceedingly rare pinch flats). Stans sucks. I change tires a lot. Stans sucks. UST tire selection is pretty pathetic. Stans sucks. The only time it would make real sense is on our Utah road trips and then I just inflate to about 50psi and everything goes swimmingly. Stans sucks. I have toyed with the idea of building dedicated UST rims but it seems silly as I have a pile of existing wheels and like I said the UST selection is weak. I tried Stans and it sucks.

    Anyway, just for kicks and giggles I ordered some Maxxis rim strips and a pair of Specialized Enduro 2.4 sticky (50A shoulder, 60A center) 2Bliss tires. The Maxxis 26A1 rim strips dropped effortlessly into place in my Mavic F219/XM321 rims. I wrestled the tire on (I had to use a tire lever for the last 6" of the second bead- the rest went on with my fingers), made sure the strip was still seated, and pumped it up with a floor pump. I didn't even pump hard, just normal. It aired right up. Voila, tubeless, easy. No soap, no white spoooooooge, no expensive Mavic rims or funky nipple cups, no fuss, no muss. Maxxis rim strips cost $5 each, shipping is $5, and I got a free t-shirt. Just amazing.

    I admit I would have to use some of the Stans spoooooooooge if I want to run my normal meats, but this is an interesting beginning.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  2. #2
    Living the Dream
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    Are the maxxis strips much heavier than Stans Strips

    I've been using tubeless for like 3 years now. I never use UST tires. I use 819s and DT 5.1s with the DT/Eclipse strips. Do you know if the Maxxis Strips are heavier than the Stans? How do you like the Spec Ed tires?
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  3. #3
    AW_
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    I have never adopted tubeless for a few reasons. I don't need it at home (no thorns, exceedingly rare pinch flats). Stans sucks. I change tires a lot. Stans sucks. UST tire selection is pretty pathetic. Stans sucks. The only time it would make real sense is on our Utah road trips and then I just inflate to about 50psi and everything goes swimmingly. Stans sucks. I have toyed with the idea of building dedicated UST rims but it seems silly as I have a pile of existing wheels and like I said the UST selection is weak. I tried Stans and it sucks.

    Anyway, just for kicks and giggles I ordered some Maxxis rim strips and a pair of Specialized Enduro 2.4 sticky (50A shoulder, 60A center) 2Bliss tires. The Maxxis 26A1 rim strips dropped effortlessly into place in my Mavic F219/XM321 rims. I wrestled the tire on (I had to use a tire lever for the last 6" of the second bead- the rest went on with my fingers), made sure the strip was still seated, and pumped it up with a floor pump. I didn't even pump hard, just normal. It aired right up. Voila, tubeless, easy. No soap, no white spoooooooge, no expensive Mavic rims or funky nipple cups, no fuss, no muss. Maxxis rim strips cost $5 each, shipping is $5, and I got a free t-shirt. Just amazing.

    I admit I would have to use some of the Stans spoooooooooge if I want to run my normal meats, but this is an interesting beginning.

    Which model rim strips did you get? I have the same rims.

  4. #4
    No, that's not phonetic
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    100g on the button (strip with attached valve stem).

    Zero miles so far.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  5. #5
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by AW_
    Which model rim strips did you get? I have the same rims.
    Read more closely.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Read more closely.
    Exactly what is your position on Stans?

  7. #7
    AW_
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Read more closely.
    Whoops. You had a lot of numbers in there and I got confused. Thanks.

  8. #8
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    not too bad considerin the average presta tube is about 50g i think. how much do the tires weigh professor?
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    not too bad considerin the average presta tube is about 50g i think. how much do the tires weigh professor?
    XC weight presta tubes are more like 200g.

  10. #10
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    good catch. left out a 1. 150g is not bad for a 26x2.125 butel tube but the average is more like 170g now that i look it up.
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  11. #11
    trail fairy
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    Those Enduro's are actually nice tires, did I say that about the big S, just watch em on hardpack surfaces the side knobs squirm a bit otherwise all good they do pump up well on any rim Ive usd em on 823s DT 5.1 Bonty Mustangs
    don't know how long theyll hold air though with out some goo
    supposedly Bontrager has a new sealant out thats not liquid which is getting good reviews.
    Weight sounds allot for rim strip, Im not a big fan of the valve and rim strip being one, the DT system and Bonty system is more robust being a seperate item, my stans use to split at the valve and rim strip arghh.

    That being said Ive had no experience with the Maxis RS so keep us posted Prof T and welcome to the UST club once converted its hard to go back.

    Now ya just gotta convert Barny's bike
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  12. #12
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    Stans Sux

    So you don't like Stan's, eh Tscheezy? Good thing I can read between the lines, and figure that out all on my own.

    My experience with Stan's would concur with that, until I tried mixing 2 parts Stan's to 1 part Slime Tubeless green gooey stuff. What a difference. Note this was done with the custom-fitted Bonty rimstrip, not the Stan's strip.

    Still, after two years, I just went back to tubes. Easier, not any really significant difference in ride quality, simple to swap tires on a whim, blah repeated.

    For Utah, a pair of Spec Airlock tubes and I'm good to go without even paying any attention to where the cactus are positioned.

    I'll be curious to learn how you fare without any sealant whatsoever.

    EDIT: Wow, I just ran out to the garage and opened my box of two (still unused) Maxis rimstrips and I got a t-shirt too!!!!! No wonder they came in what seemed to be a ridiculously large box!
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  13. #13
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    i have a set of bonty mustang tubeless hoops built up on the SPaaNB, 2 more pair of tubeless valiants, a pair of tubeless michi wildgrippers and 2 sets of rim strips but ive never tried em. some day.
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  14. #14
    ... I guess you won't be
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    Tscheezy - question for you....

    I won a set of Maxxis Wormdrive tubeless, w/ the tubeless rim strips you used. I threw the wormdrives on my SS, since it already has tubeless rims on it, but I still have the rim strips unused...I'm going to put them on my girl's singlespeed I'm building up, and was curious if you had any trouble getting the last bit of tire over the rubber lip on the Maxxis tubeless strip?

    I'm thinking the maxxis tires that are formatted for the strips would have to have a looser bead, to allow easy passage over the rubber rim portion of the strip.

    What was your experience with this situation?

    If so, I can see some of my flabby loose beaded, Geax meats getting very tubeless very soon!

  15. #15
    No, that's not phonetic
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    You can get 80% of the bead into the rim's channel without upsetting the rim strip which does extend all the way out and onto the hook. At the end when you pry the last bit of bead into the channel it tends to take the rim strip with it, but all I had to do was push the final bead towards the opposit hook and the rim strip just popped out from beneath it and slapped itself neatly back into place. Just try not to crush the strip with your tire levers, I guess.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  16. #16
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    Let us know what you think of those tires after you get a chance to thrash them a bit

  17. #17
    mr. wonderful
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    Instant timewarp. Wow.

    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    It aired right up. Voila, tubeless, easy.

    Just amazing.

    I admit I would have to use some of the Stans spoooooooooge if I want to run my normal meats, but this is an interesting beginning.
    . . . and have you tried tubeless on your car? Simply amazing

    Seriously, I suppose this just shows how different circumstances require different answers. Riding in the Sonoran Desert, I would much rather deal with the 'hassle' of mounting tubeless once than changing and patching tubes constantly. (After my ride Saturday i pulled 4 goatheads out of my front tire. Each hole squirted out latex before sealing.) 50 psi? No thanks! I have come to love the traction and forgiveness of lower psi(s), especially tech climbing. And slimed (or airlock) tubes? I am no weight weenie, but 300 grams just to keep a tire inflated is simply unnecessary.

    Now, down here, I may not have as much need to be constantly changing out tires. It's pretty much ALL rock and DG. i have a particular favorite for my SS, a favorite XC type tire, and a favorite DH type setup; each on a different wheelset. All are tubeless (that is, they don't have tubes in them, but none are UST). All are Mavic rims (you hate Stans, I hate strips), 819s and 823s. I mix my own latex as it's much less expensive than Stans premix. If I cut a tire, I simply patch it. If I get a puncture that won't seal, but isn't worthy of a patch, I poke it with a tubeless repair strip. If I really slice it, I break out the expensive Hutchinson thick patches. I carry a tube for on the trail blowouts just like everyone else and I don't even try to seat or seal a flat during a ride.

    I have been able to seat and seal every tire (non UST) I've tried, and I haven't used a UST tire for probably 3 years. Some are more challenging than others (read Big Bettys). Most, however, are cake with compressed air and a little soap on the bead.

    I'm not saying it's for everyone and every condition, but i couldn't imagine running tubes again

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    I have never adopted tubeless for a few reasons. I don't need it at home (no thorns, exceedingly rare pinch flats). Stans sucks. I change tires a lot. Stans sucks. UST tire selection is pretty pathetic. Stans sucks....I tried Stans and it sucks.
    I can see an argument against tubeless since you have nothing trailside to puncture your tires, the UST selection is meagre, and you change tires a lot so dealing with Stan's would complicate quick tire swaps, but other than that I don't see why Stan's sucks so much.

    Maybe I've been lucky but I've always been able to air up with a floor pump and I've never had to use soapy water on the bead (dip a finger in the Stan's and run your finger around the bead). When I change a tire I break the beads, remove one side, mop up the Stan's at the bottom with a paper towel, run the towel around the inside, remove the tire, run a new paper towel around the circumference of the rim and move on. Minimal "mess."

    I carry a tube in case I tear a sidewall, but it always ends up being used by the guy running tubes. Stan's keeps me rolling without fail.

    Anyhow, I'll be curious to see how the Maxxis rim strips work out since I'd love to run something wider than the 819 without the heft of the 823.


  19. #19
    FM
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    I run a speshy enduro 2.4 2bliss on the front of my XC bike, mounted to a mavic 819. Great tire! Two quirks I've noticed about it- the sidewalls leaked air when I ran it without sealant. 2 cups of stans and I haven't touched it since. Also, because it's a big light tire, you really got to keep the pressure up in front. It will fold over and lose all pressure if you run it too low. Otherwise it's as close to a DH tire as you can get at half the weight.

    Another tubeless trick- pick up a topeak mountain morph pump. I've seated tubeless tires with this pump several times. Actually makes trailside tubeless repair viable.

  20. #20
    Lay off the Levers
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    (whiny self obsessed semi-derailment ahead)

    You guys suck.
    UST alternatives Suck.

    All this crap is holding up development of a decent selection of UST tires which US BIG GUYS NEED! Running a std tire in tubless format under a big guy makes for floppy rollly sidewalls or redic-u-high pressures that compromise ride and traction. Hell, even the much beloved Nevigal 2.5 road like crap for me @ +40psi WITH a tube and pinch flatted like a road tire...just imagine me running that limp stick tubeless.

    As for stans and such... I've see a few buddies stuff a tube to fix a stans flat trailside, and look like they just got out of the back seat of George Michael's car. Pass!

    I want more UST... I want more UST... MORE EUUUUEEE ESSSSSS TEEEEEEE!

    Sorry...just had to vent again.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  21. #21
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    I've see a few buddies stuff a tube to fix a stans flat trailside, and look like they just got out of the back seat of George Michael's car. Pass!
    classic!
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtbag
    Seriously, I suppose this just shows how different circumstances require different answers. Riding in the Sonoran Desert, I would much rather deal with the 'hassle' of mounting tubeless once than changing and patching tubes constantly. (After my ride Saturday i pulled 4 goatheads out of my front tire. Each hole squirted out latex before sealing.) 50 psi? No thanks! I have come to love the traction and forgiveness of lower psi(s), especially tech climbing. And slimed (or airlock) tubes? I am no weight weenie, but 300 grams just to keep a tire inflated is simply unnecessary.

    Now, down here, I may not have as much need to be constantly changing out tires. It's pretty much ALL rock and DG. i have a particular favorite for my SS, a favorite XC type tire, and a favorite DH type setup; each on a different wheelset. All are tubeless (that is, they don't have tubes in them, but none are UST). All are Mavic rims (you hate Stans, I hate strips), 819s and 823s. I mix my own latex as it's much less expensive than Stans premix. If I cut a tire, I simply patch it. If I get a puncture that won't seal, but isn't worthy of a patch, I poke it with a tubeless repair strip. If I really slice it, I break out the expensive Hutchinson thick patches. I carry a tube for on the trail blowouts just like everyone else and I don't even try to seat or seal a flat during a ride.

    I have been able to seat and seal every tire (non UST) I've tried, and I haven't used a UST tire for probably 3 years. Some are more challenging than others (read Big Bettys). Most, however, are cake with compressed air and a little soap on the bead.

    I'm not saying it's for everyone and every condition, but i couldn't imagine running tubes again

    Ditto from a fellow desert dweller.

    The combination of cacti and goatheads, super-loose decomposed granite over hardpack, and sharp edged rocks everywhere make a tough self-sealing sytem that can be run at low pressure ideal.

    Strips are no big deal to me though, I'm currently on Mavic UST rims, but on my Spot build, I'm going to use DT 5.1 rims and the DT Tubeless Kit.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    (whiny self obsessed semi-derailment ahead)

    You guys suck.
    UST alternatives Suck.

    All this crap is holding up development of a decent selection of UST tires which US BIG GUYS NEED! Running a std tire in tubless format under a big guy makes for floppy rollly sidewalls or redic-u-high pressures that compromise ride and traction. Hell, even the much beloved Nevigal 2.5 road like crap for me @ +40psi WITH a tube and pinch flatted like a road tire...just imagine me running that limp stick tubeless.

    As for stans and such... I've see a few buddies stuff a tube to fix a stans flat trailside, and look like they just got out of the back seat of George Michael's car. Pass!

    I want more UST... I want more UST... MORE EUUUUEEE ESSSSSS TEEEEEEE!

    Sorry...just had to vent again.
    ...Zilla, have you tried the new high roller from maxxis? The new UST version has the LUST sidewalls & weighs only 800gm ( 2.35" version). I have been running 23-26 psi & landing decent drops without burping....the sidewalls are nice & beefy Clyde Approved


  24. #24
    ... I guess you won't be
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    make you own stans.....and a lifetime supply at that!

    buy from plastic/chemical suppliers


    #660 - This material is the prevulcanized form of #80. No post-curing is necessary.
    Price Per Gallon: $29.95
    #80 -This vulcanizable (not pre-vulcanized) natural latex is compounded from specially processed latex with a solid content between 60 and 70 percent. #80 is recommended for making molds for casting Portland Cement and limited runs of polyester. The material may be applied by painting, brushing or spraying and exhibits very little shrinkage.
    Price Per Gallon: $27.95


    anyone ever try to make their own?

  25. #25
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    Welcome to 2001.

  26. #26
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    Speccy 2.4

    On the Speccy 2.4 2 Bliss, This is a heavy tire. Around 1000 gms if I remember correctly but it absolutely rocks in loose and loose over hard pack. It's a good sized 2.4 If I run it at pressures over 30 psi it washes out too much. (I'm 155 lbs) so it sounds like my experience may differ from others.

    It's a b1tch to mount the first time as the bead is very stiff. Cheapy tire levers won't work.

    I've run it tubeless on Mavic 819's and 823's. All with Stans of course. The stuff is magic

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokermtb

    anyone ever try to make their own?

    Sure, but I just buy Mold Builder from the local craft store. A 10 dollar tub lasts about a year.


  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juan Speeder
    Sure, but I just buy Mold Builder from the local craft store. A 10 dollar tub lasts about a year.

    ...ditto


  29. #29
    FleshwoundGravityResearch
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    How is it that the UST selection sucks? What is everyone running that they can't get in UST? Kenda...yup, Schwalbe...uh, yes. Maybe no big betty, but a fat nobby nic with the exact tread pattern.

    I think you might miss out on one or two tires out of an entire line.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms
    Welcome to 2001.
    Ohh C'mon Dusty...why you gotta be like that? This post had one of those little lightbulb thingies next to it...you know the one that indicates another incredible act of genious has just occured.


    SHEEEEESH.
    What the EFF is "All MOUNTAIN"???

  31. #31
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Ok, now on to less controversial subjects.

    Ellsworth sucks.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtn hack
    How is it that the UST selection sucks? What is everyone running that they can't get in UST? Kenda...yup, Schwalbe...uh, yes. Maybe no big betty, but a fat nobby nic with the exact tread pattern.

    I think you might miss out on one or two tires out of an entire line.
    Kevin, are you serious?
    I can't get any of the tires I like, in the size I want, in the tread compound I prefer, in UST.

    Not all of us are running skinnies & paying attention to the HR monitor.

  33. #33
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    I've found the selection and quality of UST to be very good for 2.1-2.3 tires, and it's a must for me with the thorns and sharp edged rocks at Palmer, at least for the Burner. Stans works and is easy to use in my experience, no messy trailside issues cause you rarely flat if ever, almost 3 years and I've had 2 flats, 1 from a large piece of glass and another from a crappy Hutchinson sidewall, so in reality only 1 flat in almost 3 years!

    I don't use UST on the RFX, although I might when I get a new wheelset built and there is a better selection, but in general I don't flat from thorns with the bigger meats and only occasionally pinch flat, so the lack of selection and cost of the bigger UST tires is the only drawback for me.

  34. #34
    No, that's not phonetic
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    50% of our ridind is done on Nokian Dual or Core 2.3 tires. No UST.

    40% of our riding is done on Nokian Freddies, Extreme, or Hakka 300 studded tires. No UST.

    10% of our riding is with Team Sanchez. No UST there either.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    50% of our ridind is done on Nokian Dual or Core 2.3 tires. No UST.

    40% of our riding is done on Nokian Freddies, Extreme, or Hakka 300 studded tires. No UST.

    10% of our riding is with Team Sanchez. No UST there either.
    on top of that they both give it 110% on 90% of the trails they ride 85% of the time in 15% of the united states includin alaska and the islands on bikes that coulda been 100% effeciant with the right marketing and proper copywrites. thats a grand total of.....500%! damn theyre good! im sold on not usin ust.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by cc
    on top of that they both give it 110% on 90% of the trails they ride 85% of the time in 15% of the united states includin alaska and the islands on bikes that coulda been 100% effeciant with the right marketing and proper copywrites. thats a grand total of.....500%! damn theyre good! im sold on not usin ust.
    I think we're 100% overdue for a graph.



    Quote Originally Posted by jnc
    ...Zilla, have you tried the new high roller from maxxis? The new UST version has the LUST sidewalls & weighs only 800gm ( 2.35" version). I have been running 23-26 psi & landing decent drops without burping....the sidewalls are nice & beefy Clyde Approved
    Sounds like the ticket. Right now my fav setup is the Fat Albert 2.3 front and the NBX 2.3 rear. I'd be plenty happy with 30-35psi esp considering I'm probably half as smooth as you are. 2.5s might help with riding the skinnies but I'll settle for the 2.3s Thanks!
    Last edited by Bikezilla; 10-24-2006 at 09:21 AM.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  37. #37
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    Focking newbs.

    http://www.yestubes.com/

  38. #38
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    Big Earl TR ARC

    http://www.bontrager.com/Mountain/Wh...ires/21238.php

    Ihave the Big Earl TR ARC on mavic 819
    like this set up

  39. #39
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    I'm with Dirtbag on this one. I went back to tubes for a few months because I was "fed up" with converting Kenda tires tubeless. After spending $150 on tubes in maybe 2 months, the hassle of tubeless all of a sudden didn't seem so bad.

    Turns out, it was more about tire selection. I went to Maxxis DH non-tubeless tires (running them tubeless) and all is well again. I have yet to have 1 installation problem, seal problem, or any problem for that matter with this setup. Sure, the tires are a bit heavier, but running slime tubes at 250-300 grams didn't make much sense either.

    All of the people Dirtbag and I ride with are tubeless, not because it is the coolest new fad, but because we need it. If I lived back in NY, I would never run tubeless.

    UST tire selection sucks for larger sized tires. Other than the Diesel 2.5 and Minion 2.5's are there any other large UST tires available?
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiSS
    ...If I lived back in NY, I would never run tubeless.
    You must be from LongGUHYland or weigh less than an Olsen twin. The rocks in my part of NY are brutal. For me, riding w/tubes is an excersize in frustration.

    Of course not everyone can finess like a 60' lizard.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  41. #41
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    Is the real problem here because Kenda doesn't make the Nevegal in 2.3/2.5 UST?

    I run Neve 2.1 UST on my Flux and have never had a single problem. (knock on wood).
    Last edited by SportDerek; 10-24-2006 at 11:49 AM.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er
    I'm with Dirtbag on this one. I went back to tubes for a few months because I was "fed up" with converting Kenda tires tubeless. After spending $150 on tubes in maybe 2 months, the hassle of tubeless all of a sudden didn't seem so bad.

    Turns out, it was more about tire selection. I went to Maxxis DH non-tubeless tires (running them tubeless) and all is well again. I have yet to have 1 installation problem, seal problem, or any problem for that matter with this setup. Sure, the tires are a bit heavier, but running slime tubes at 250-300 grams didn't make much sense either.

    All of the people Dirtbag and I ride with are tubeless, not because it is the coolest new fad, but because we need it. If I lived back in NY, I would never run tubeless.

    UST tire selection sucks for larger sized tires. Other than the Diesel 2.5 and Minion 2.5's are there any other large UST tires available?
    Do you find the ride quality to be any better w/o tubes or are you doing it purely for flat prevention? Were you getting many flats with Maxxis DH tires, if so what kind (pinch or thorns)?

  43. #43
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    Dang TS - why did you let my secret out???

    If you want the Maxxis strips you better get them now. It is a discontinued item. The 26A1 will fit the Mavic XM321/F219 - Syncros DS-28 and the DT 5.1d rims. I have used it on all of these rims.
    Nothing to see here.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Kevin, are you serious?
    I can't get any of the tires I like, in the size I want, in the tread compound I prefer, in UST.

    Not all of us are running skinnies & paying attention to the HR monitor.

    I would hardly consider the 2.25 UST Nobby Nics a skinny. And the UST Nevegal in 2.1 and matching Blue Groove are quite a bit bigger than the Conti 2.3's. (the Kenda measurement system is suspect. ie I suspect they are under-estimating the sizes)

    There is also a Fat Albert in 2.35, only .05 smaller than those Pig Bettys you run.

    Tread compound is going to be the only thing I see limiting.

    EDIT: I found the tire for you Jamie
    Last edited by mtn hack; 10-24-2006 at 09:28 PM.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    50% of our ridind is done on Nokian Dual or Core 2.3 tires. No UST.

    40% of our riding is done on Nokian Freddies, Extreme, or Hakka 300 studded tires. No UST.

    10% of our riding is with Team Sanchez. No UST there either.

    So where does the 2bliss fit in? Nokian are the only tires Alaska-worthy?

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtn hack
    I would hardly consider the 2.25 UST Nobby Nics a skinny. And the UST Nevegal in 2.1 and matching Blue Groove are quite a bit bigger than the Conti 2.3's. (the Kenda measurement system is suspect. ie I suspect they are under-estimating the sizes)

    There is also a Fat Albert in 2.4, only .05 smaller than those Pig Bettys you run.

    Tread compound is going to be the only thing I see limiting.
    Been there, done that with all those tires.
    They're not adequate for my needs. You like smallish XC tires. And all of those tires use hard compound rubber.

    That selecdtion also don't appear to be adequate for most of the other guys we ride with, the majority of whom also use "Pig Betties".

    Fortunately Schwalbe has plans to bring a UST Betty to market in '07. That may change the field.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtn hack
    ...the UST Nevegal in 2.1 and matching Blue Groove are quite a bit bigger than the Conti 2.3's....
    Continental makes tires??? Last I checked they only made inflatable rim strips.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  48. #48
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    Tubeless sucks.

    There wouldn't be debates on it if it was universally good.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Been there, done that with all those tires.
    They're not adequate for my needs. You like smallish XC tires. And all of those tires use hard compound rubber.

    That selecdtion also don't appear to be adequate for most of the other guys we ride with, the majority of whom also use "Pig Betties".

    Fortunately Schwalbe has plans to bring a UST Betty to market in '07. That may change the field.

    Well I guess you better get Darren back to the drawing board if the Betty size is the minimum.

    And if I put XC skinnies on (or inlatable rim strips) I might actually be able to climb worth a sht.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Tubeless sucks.

    There wouldn't be debates on it if it was universally good.
    Oh really?? Maybe you should bring some rocks home with you after your next visit upstate.
    Last edited by Bikezilla; 10-24-2006 at 01:03 PM.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Tubeless sucks.

    There wouldn't be debates on it if it was universally good.
    Maybe not universally, but see dirtbag and my posts above.

    Guess you're not a desert dweller, eh?

    And no, tubeless doesn't suck. It's the best thing ever.

    See how one's opinion can differ, yet still be correct from a given individual's perspective?

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Tubeless sucks.

    There wouldn't be debates on it if it was universally good.
    Same thing could be said of Horst vs. Non Horst link bikes.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla

    Of course not everyone can finess like a 60' lizard.
    Oh no, I can finess a 60' lizard, no problem.





















    What does that mean anyways?

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtn hack
    Well I guess you better get Darren back to the drawing board if the Betty size is the minimum.

    And if I put XC skinnies on (or inlatable rim strips) I might actually be able to climb worth a sht.
    Darren does tires now?

    Cool !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  55. #55
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    Where did you get your rim strips from?

    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    Dang TS - why did you let my secret out???

    If you want the Maxxis strips you better get them now. It is a discontinued item. The 26A1 will fit the Mavic XM321/F219 - Syncros DS-28 and the DT 5.1d rims. I have used it on all of these rims.
    I want to stock up on a couple before they stop making them. Thanks
    "And I shout that your all fakes and you should have seen the look on your face"

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juan Speeder
    Oh no, I can finess a (edit: 6") lizard, no problem.
    good timeing. fo needs a date to the prom.

    What does that mean anyways?
    dont worry, hell show ya.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy[...

    Anyway, just for kicks and giggles I ordered some Maxxis rim strips and a pair of Specialized Enduro 2.4 sticky (50A shoulder, 60A center) 2Bliss tires. The Maxxis 26A1 rim strips dropped effortlessly into place in my Mavic F219/XM321 rims. I wrestled the tire on (I had to use a tire lever for the last 6" of the second bead- the rest went on with my fingers), made sure the strip was still seated, and pumped it up with a floor pump. I didn't even pump hard, just normal. It aired right up. Voila, tubeless, easy. No soap, no white spoooooooge, no expensive Mavic rims or funky nipple cups, no fuss, no muss. Maxxis rim strips cost $5 each, shipping is $5, and I got a free t-shirt. Just amazing.

    I admit I would have to use some of the Stans spoooooooooge if I want to run my normal meats, but this is an interesting beginning.
    This sounds interesting, but I don't really understand how it works. The tire is a UST-tire I assume? Can you take some photos of the rimstrip?

    Thanks

    //Fredrik

  58. #58
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    I've been using the Enduro 2.4 2Bliss pro as a rear tire all season. It's mounted to a DT 5.1 rim and I haven't flatted once, which is a freaking miracle in my book. It does leak air overnight without sealant though and rolling resistance is kinda high.


    I managed to burp about 15 psi of air out of the tire the other day during a G out on a very steep set of stairs that I was riding/jumping down at an angle.

    I'm never going back to tubes, at least for the rear.

    BTW the Hutchison Octopus 2.5 is another largish UST tire. Brontrager Big Earl is also UST IIRC.
    Last edited by Steve71; 10-25-2006 at 02:28 PM.
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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    good timeing. fo needs a date to the prom.
    Hey pal (god, if the exact tone of my disdain only came across on the internets),

    screw you.

  60. #60
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    correction

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Tubeless sucks.

    There wouldn't be debates on it if it was universally good.
    Correction: People's choices of rim/ tire combos suck. Otherwise there wouldn't be debates on whether or not to run tubes.
    Maxxis dh tires work incredibly well sans tubes with Azonic, WTB and DT rims. WTB xc tires work well with Azonic and Sun Singletracks. The Kenda dh tires I've tried have all been more work.
    I've dinged the fak out of my rims and the only time I've ever gotten a flat has been because the Stan's goo dried up, or I had a cut so large no tube would've survived. Refill every 2 months or so (here in the hi mtn desert of CO) and you're golden.
    And if you can't tell the difference in the ride, you must be running too much air pressure or something. The decreased rolling resistance and extra cush are the only reasons I run tubeless. This is just my experience, and only with Stan's/ ghetto/ Maxxis rimstrips - never tried UST - what's that stand for anyway? Ultra Spendy Tubeless?
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  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrik Larsson
    This sounds interesting, but I don't really understand how it works. The tire is a UST-tire I assume? Can you take some photos of the rimstrip?

    Thanks

    //Fredrik
    didn't you read the bit about his wrestling match to mount the tire?
    i'm sure TSZY is racing right now to unmount his tire just to take a picture of the rimstrip for you

  62. #62
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    Correction: People's choices of rim/ tire combos suck. Otherwise there wouldn't be debates on whether or not to run tubes.
    Maxxis dh tires work incredibly well sans tubes with Azonic, WTB and DT rims. WTB xc tires work well with Azonic and Sun Singletracks. The Kenda dh tires I've tried have all been more work.
    I've dinged the fak out of my rims and the only time I've ever gotten a flat has been because the Stan's goo dried up, or I had a cut so large no tube would've survived. Refill every 2 months or so (here in the hi mtn desert of CO) and you're golden.
    And if you can't tell the difference in the ride, you must be running too much air pressure or something. The decreased rolling resistance and extra cush are the only reasons I run tubeless. This is just my experience, and only with Stan's/ ghetto/ Maxxis rimstrips - never tried UST - what's that stand for anyway? Ultra Spendy Tubeless?
    Yeah I sorta get ya here, tires are all different just like people hehe Dr Phil

    Maxis do seem to work well agreed, Kendas have worked for me in UST and Notubes mode, I have no issues with Stans drying up on me in that short of period but that does happen the new bonty stuff is supposed to be good I might try it sometime.
    I agree totally on the feel Im sure dudes don't run less than 40psi no matter what tubed or no tubed UST the feel is dramatic to me even a UST tire feels different to a stans or sealed standard tire they just conform and roll over terrain so much nicer, maybe others have no feel

    Anyways I don't worry too much if others don't follow only lead em to water don't make em drink Dr Phil

    UST = Universal Tubeless System put together by Hutchinson, Michellin and Mavic in the 90s
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  63. #63
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Not crazy enough to unmount the tire, but CRAZY ENOUGH TO DROP A DIFFERENT, SPARE STRIP INTO A DIFFERENT RIM!!! I'm soooooooooooo NUTS-O!!!!!! Somebody stop me.

    Anyway, here's a 26DH2 in a WTB Dual Duty. It fits a little floppy compared to the 26A1 in the 219/321.



    Note that the strip laps over the edge of the hook and conforms to its shape. There is also a bead lock ridge down in the channel like a UST rim. Stans burped badly for me since the strip eats up a bunch of the space under the hook, making it less... um... "hookey." I put a Maxxis valve cap inside the strip so you could see the bare rim.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  64. #64
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    youve got me confused with po fizzlestick again.

    it was a joke, not even aimed at you. sorry if i offended you or anyone save for shnizzle himself. that wasnt what i had in mind juan.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  65. #65
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    are those things somewhat rim specific? this is the 1st ive heard of them. or was it that i didnt pay any attention? i still need sellin on the whole non tubes thing, no matter the type of product but im willin to learn.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    are those things somewhat rim specific? this is the 1st ive heard of them. or was it that i didnt pay any attention? i still need sellin on the whole non tubes thing, no matter the type of product but im willin to learn.
    Yes, very rim specific. Sizing is listed on the maxxis site. I made the 26A1 work in my DT5.1d rims by addin some rim tape under the strip. FWIW...The DH strips have schreader valves....or maybe not!!!

    The best part is the orange valve caps!
    Last edited by SSINGA; 10-24-2006 at 07:36 PM.
    Nothing to see here.

  67. #67
    No, that's not phonetic
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    My 26DH2 has presta valves.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    youve got me confused with po fizzlestick again.

    it was a joke, not even aimed at you. sorry if i offended you or anyone save for shnizzle himself. that wasnt what i had in mind juan.
    Well sh!t, I was jokin' too.

    I guess neither dry humor or disdain travel thru the tubes very well.

  69. #69
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    Originally Posted by mtn hack
    Well I guess you better get Darren back to the drawing board if the Betty size is the minimum.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Darren does tires now?

    Cool !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Nope. But there are apparent issues with big b%tches and his product!!!!!!!!!!!!!




    But keep that on the down-low. This is just one smart@ss to another.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtn hack
    But there are apparent issues with big b%tches and his product!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    But keep that on the down-low. This is just one smart@ss to another.
    Good thing I don't ride a Spot

  71. #71
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    You have to tell the WHOLE story...

    Quote Originally Posted by mtn hack
    Originally Posted by mtn hack
    Well I guess you better get Darren back to the drawing board if the Betty size is the minimum.




    Nope. But there are apparent issues with big b%tches and his product!!!!!!!!!!!!!




    But keep that on the down-low. This is just one smart@ss to another.

    This is actually a design feature Darren put into the rockers.

    It's called the "Full Travel Alert System" Or FAT ASS .

    Designed around the Big Betty's. Other >2.4 tires will work, but the pitch may be different.

    And remember, only those with the rear mounted cable stop have this feature available to them.

    Thank God that includes me.
    Astigmatic Visionary

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by S-Works
    This is actually a design feature Darren put into the rockers.

    It's called the "Full Travel Alert System" Or FAT ASS .

    Designed around the Big Betty's. Other >2.4 tires will work, but the pitch may be different.

    And remember, only those with the rear mounted cable stop have this feature available to them.

    Thank God that includes me.

    Brilliant!! I guess it is now ok for me to order both the rockers AND the rotund muthas.

  73. #73
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    I was shown a DIY setup the other day by a guy who runs Stan's rims. He had dinged his rim so severely it wouldn't hold air, so he sliced a regular tube along its length on the side away from the valve. Then he used that home made "rim strip" so that it came out between the tire and rim on both sides and put in some Stan's sealant. Then he pulled the strip side to side until it was tight all around the rim and inflated the tire. Once it was seated, he used a knife to cut the protruding tube/rimstrip. It looked pretty funky, but he said it held air as well as anything he'd used before.
    {Principal Skinner} Hmm. Whoever did this is in very deep trouble.
    {Martin} And a sloppy speller too. The preferred spelling of 'wiener' is w - i - e - n - e - r, although 'e - i' is an acceptable ethnic variant.

  74. #74
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    Yo, Bob. I've heard of that DIY before too- and a 24" rube hugs the rim better than a 26". The drawback is that a tube costs about $4, so you are only saving about a buck, and it does not want to sit in place pleasantly as if molded to the rim like the Maxxis strips.

    I would have actually tried these thingies on our last Utah trip, but they showed up too late.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  75. #75
    PSI
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juan Speeder
    Sure, but I just buy Mold Builder from the local craft store. A 10 dollar tub lasts about a year.

    you use it as is instead of stans?

  76. #76
    PSI
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juan Speeder
    Sure, but I just buy Mold Builder from the local craft store. A 10 dollar tub lasts about a year.

    you use it as is instead of stans?

  77. #77
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    doh! if i didnt hate those dumb ass smileys so much i woulda used one. all forgiven?
    No, I'm NOT back!

  78. #78
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    By ghetto tubeless, I was referring to the use of 20" tubes instead of rimstrips, cut up the center and trimmed after tire installation as described above by BtW. The advantage these have over the Maxxis strips is that they are tougher to cut/ tear when you're mounting the tires (especially a concern when dealing w/ dh casings/ beads). Oh, and they're not rim specific.
    And I've never burped a tire when running either ghetto or Maxxis rimstrips.
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  79. #79
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    How is this thread still alive?

    Tubes are for people with bar ends, purple ano, 3 rings, and a rotary phone at home.

    "Fill 'er up with leaded Frank, and check the oil!"

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms
    How is this thread still alive?

    Tubes are for people with bar ends, purple ano, 3 rings, and a rotary phone at home.

    "Fill 'er up with leaded Frank, and check the oil!"
    Dusty, I'm suprised you aren't a stans fan! After all, it's white, cheap and adds weight to your bike....

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    Dang TS - why did you let my secret out???

    If you want the Maxxis strips you better get them now. It is a discontinued item. The 26A1 will fit the Mavic XM321/F219 - Syncros DS-28 and the DT 5.1d rims. I have used it on all of these rims.
    So SSINGA,

    Would the 26A1 work for a mavic D521 rim ?
    Last edited by noosa2; 10-25-2006 at 11:24 AM.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by noosa2
    So SSINGA,

    Would the 26A1 work for a mavic D521 rim ?
    Not sure what the specs are on the D521 - if it's close to the 321/219 then I would say yes.
    Nothing to see here.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    Dusty, I'm suprised you aren't a stans fan! After all, it's white, cheap and adds weight to your bike....
    FM, a most excellent slam!
    ****

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by PSI
    you use it as is instead of stans?

    No, mix about 10:1 (that's one part latex goo) with water.

    I add a little anti-freeze in the winter.

  85. #85
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    New question here.

    I am runnin some maxxis Maxxlite 330's on mavic crossrides and was wanting to run them tubeless but didnt know if I could. Can I?

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    Another tubeless trick- pick up a topeak mountain morph pump. I've seated tubeless tires with this pump several times. Actually makes trailside tubeless repair viable.
    Here's another. Quick and easy. LINK

  87. #87
    No, that's not phonetic
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    So far zero psi air loss (that's dry, no spoooooooge). No burping. Rolls fine. Corners fine. Climbing, braking, no issues, works great. No muss, no fuss.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  88. #88
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    Been running Maxxis rim strips for over a year now. Can't say enough good things about them except....they've stopped making them . They are selling existing stock and that's it. I stocked up recently and it'd be a good idea to do the same if you really like them.
    "Do not touch the trim"

  89. #89
    Stand back
    Reputation: dbabuser's Avatar
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    Except

    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    Dusty, I'm suprised you aren't a stans fan! After all, it's white, cheap and adds weight to your bike....
    Except he never mentioned Stan's. And a couple scoops of sealant is lighter than UST versions of reg'lar tires.
    Golden Bike Park

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  90. #90
    mtbr member
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    3 flats in the one day at THC when on a demo bike (with tubes) 1 pinch, 2 cactus in 3 hours.

    I use the Maxxis strips over ANYTHING!
    since the DH1 is gone now i've found the 26 A1 fits in the WTB speed disc trail (22mm IW), DT 5.1 (21.5)and 721 (with some extra velox on the 721).

    Currently running a Maxxis UST rear tire for casing tear resistance and a Maxxis non UST front (allways with a shot of stans of course)

    In Utah i pull a thorn out almost every day when commuting 2 miles to work.

    We bought 100 DH2's and 100 26A1's hopefully that will last a while.

    Krispy
    Santa Cruz Bronson 2 27.5/Rockshox Pike/Sram XX1
    Salsa Mukluk/Rockshox Bluto/Sram X1

  91. #91
    mtbr member
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    right again

    tscheezy is right again.

    I have been tubeless for about 3 years using both Stan's strips on regular rims and Mavic UST rims with tubless tires but neither has held air as well as the 26A1 rim strip on my old D521 rim.

    Anyway it is time for some new wheels and I am looking at the Easton Havocs. Does anyone know if the 26A1 rim strips (I have a couple of new ones) will work on the Havocs?

  92. #92
    wrecking crew
    Reputation: su.ling~'s Avatar
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    I noticed on Maxxis' website that the 26DH2 are now gone. I bought a couple last month for my guy's ride and a few days later, they were sold out. Now they are completely removed. Go-Ride still has them though, but at $10 instead of $5 from Maxxis. BTW~Tscheezy is right, they have Presta Valves. Way cool.
    ~~~

  93. #93
    FleshwoundGravityResearch
    Reputation: mtn hack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noosa2
    tscheezy is right again.

    I have been tubeless for about 3 years using both Stan's strips on regular rims and Mavic UST rims with tubless tires but neither has held air as well as the 26A1 rim strip on my old D521 rim.

    Anyway it is time for some new wheels and I am looking at the Easton Havocs. Does anyone know if the 26A1 rim strips (I have a couple of new ones) will work on the Havocs?

    I run mavic ust rims and stans and only check the pressure once every 2-3 weeks. I don't usually need to air up unless I have changed the pressure for extended road treks between the trail rides, or lowered the pressure for certain conditions.

  94. #94
    trail fairy
    Reputation: trailadvent's Avatar
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    You guys are using either no sealant and even in UST I recommned you do, it acts as a sealant to thorns nails whatever etc etc.
    My tires stans up no probs and I have little or no loss of pressure, I run 1 cup more than recommended of sealant and sealing is easier and my tires stay up no probs, don't skimp on a few bucks and do it right and get the real benefits of sealant and UST conversion or full UST
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  95. #95
    TranceX Rider
    Reputation: Onie's Avatar
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    Kosmo,

    That sounds a good deal then why don't you post your shirt? Would like to see it! I couldav sworn to order too to get a freebie but I'm running tubeless.
    Quote Originally Posted by jcatienza
    There was no need to scare potential buyers and burn bridges "buddy"
    Tell me now, what's Product testing all bout then?

  96. #96
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    Since the compatibility chart on the maxxis site is not really indicative, what kind of model should I go with Dt 5.1d?

  97. #97
    Living the Dream
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    26a1

    Quote Originally Posted by vinny
    Since the compatibility chart on the maxxis site is not really indicative, what kind of model should I go with Dt 5.1d?
    Go ride has them for 10 bucks each. They are taking a cue from the oil industry and doubling the MSRP.
    "And I shout that your all fakes and you should have seen the look on your face"

  98. #98
    Displaying UGI Symptoms
    Reputation: murphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinny
    Since the compatibility chart on the maxxis site is not really indicative, what kind of model should I go with Dt 5.1d?
    FYI, DT makes rims strips that are for their 5.1d rim. That is what I am using and they work great.
    24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence?
    - Stephen Wright

  99. #99
    mtbr member
    Reputation: noosa2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    You guys are using either no sealant and even in UST I recommned you do, it acts as a sealant to thorns nails whatever etc etc.
    My tires stans up no probs and I have little or no loss of pressure, I run 1 cup more than recommended of sealant and sealing is easier and my tires stay up no probs, don't skimp on a few bucks and do it right and get the real benefits of sealant and UST conversion or full UST

    Oh, I use plenty of sealant - probably would not get through any rides without it here in the desert...

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