i have a Fox 36 talas on the way...- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    i have a Fox 36 talas on the way...

    On a Spot. If I threw on some Push rockers on what would happen to my geometry? Would I have to change my pressure in my shock? Who has the rockers that they want to sell me?
    Scott

  2. #2
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    First check your oil levels for the bath, 2008, 2009, it doesn't matter. It appears people assumed Fox was good with their oil levels, but they are just as untrustworthy with that as everyone else.

    So the Push rockers would steepen your geo, making the Spot better suited for 140mm forks, or there around. It would bias your weight forward, and necessitate some observation and perhaps change in not only the shock, due to the leverage change, but to the fork as well, no matter whether you use a 36 or not. I'm thinking with the 36, you end up biasing your weight back once again, despite a forward change with the PUSH rockers.

  3. #3
    not so super...
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    just get some 5.5 rockers. They work well with the 36 up front.
    Nothing to see here.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottay5150
    Would I have to change my pressure in my shock? Who has the rockers that they want to sell me?
    Scott
    You will have to put a bit more pressure in your shock. Start with the same PSI as body weight.

    Here's one for sale: http://classifieds.mtbr.com/showprod...=23194&cat=all

    I have both the Push rocker and 5.5s; the push rockers makes the rear end feel much plusher. The 5.5s ramp up way to quickly while the push rockers makes the travel feel endless.
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  5. #5
    how heavy are you ??
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    Yeah... I am on the 5.5 ones ... With the Push rockers it will raise/lower BB? With the 36 ill be with a more rearward bias.. Would the rockers exaggerate the bias... Ultimately my goal is to have a bike that is plusher and not that much heavier WITHOUT getting a RFX... My wife would KILL me :P Scottay

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCUBAPRO
    You will have to put a bit more pressure in your shock. Start with the same PSI as body weight.

    Here's one for sale: http://classifieds.mtbr.com/showprod...=23194&cat=all

    I have both the Push rocker and 5.5s; the push rockers makes the rear end feel much plusher. The 5.5s ramp up way to quickly while the push rockers makes the travel feel endless.
    Scuba,

    I don't remember, are you using a coil or air shock? I know you had a whole collection at some point .... If you are running an air shock, high or low volume air canister?

  7. #7
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    Stock HV RP 23... Nothing special... Thanks!
    Scottay

  8. #8
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    that classified has been sold ....

    I believe. I bothered wilks before
    Scottay

  9. #9
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    Just get the RFX

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottay5150
    Yeah... I am on the 5.5 ones ... With the Push rockers it will raise/lower BB? With the 36 ill be with a more rearward bias.. Would the rockers exaggerate the bias... Ultimately my goal is to have a bike that is plusher and not that much heavier WITHOUT getting a RFX... My wife would KILL me :P Scottay
    That's what I am doing. Spot and RFX ya gotta have both to be a true homer....

    Bobo

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by nybike1971
    Scuba, I don't remember, are you using a coil or air shock? I know you had a whole collection at some point .... If you are running an air shock, high or low volume air canister?
    I mainly use an air shock on my spot to lighten it up but I still have a pDHXc as backup. I also have a HV & LV canister for my pRP3.

    The HV does not work well with push rockers as it makes the rear end waaay too soft IMO. On the other hand, I prefer the HV with the 5.5s.

    Surprisingly, I do not like the DHXc on the spot. My Pushed RP3 works great with the Push rockers so I am leaving it with that set-up.
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottay5150
    With the Push rockers it will raise/lower BB? With the 36 ill be with a more rearward bias.. Would the rockers exaggerate the bias... Ultimately my goal is to have a bike that is plusher and not that much heavier WITHOUT getting a RFX...
    It will raise the static BB a tiny bit but shouldn't really make much of a difference with rider on bike.

    With your goal in mind, the push rocker would be your ticket as you get close to 6" of travel (5.9" to be exact) and plushness that comes with. I say go for it.
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  12. #12
    Surfin' da mountain
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    Hey Scottay!

    The 36 works great on the SPOT:
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #13
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    that thing looks great

    Quote Originally Posted by Cucucachu
    Hey Scottay!

    The 36 works great on the SPOT:
    hopefully mine will be as nice!

  14. #14
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    damnit.

    so why is everyone dumping their Fox 36's right now? There is a bunch of em in the classifieds, and the more I read about them the more interested I am. Perhaps this could be the fork to replace my Z1 on the spot?

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    Tobe honest, I don't think you'll find a huge difference between the 36 over the Z1 (assuming an RC2). I did not. The 36 isn't appreciably longer (though it fit my needs), isn't much stiffer, isn't much more tunable (using oil level vs HSC), but is lighter.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007
    so why is everyone dumping their Fox 36's right now?
    Maybe they're no longer getting full travel ... like mine brand new '08, been out less then a dozen times. Tried lowering air pressure but nothing will get the zip tie closer then an inch from the crown

  17. #17
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    .downhillfaster. had the same condition and almost dumped his 36 to find out that he had a dry fork. He added oil and now gets full travel.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    .downhillfaster. had the same condition and almost dumped his 36 to find out that he had a dry fork. He added oil and now gets full travel.
    Yeah that's what I've been thinking as well - I read through the DIY section and as much as I'd like to do it myself, time is very limited this summer with work/family issues and I'm very picky with things (why I ride a Turner) so I'm sure it would take me forever. If I could watch it done once I'd feel much better about taking it on (now where are those DIY videos?!?). I'll chat with the LBS about it this week and see where it goes.

    Thanks, much appreciated!

  19. #19
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    If you really don't want to do it, I can say this is a shortcut, BUT it's purely at your own risk due to the factor of not knowing how much oil you're pulling out, and how much oil would be trapped inside the stanchions:

    1. Thoroughly clean seal area. Turn bike upside down, cover area beneath.
    2. Pull dust seals down. Maybe some oil might drip out, provided it was filled in the first place. If you have no oil dripping out, then you were not filled right or are empty (the latter is unlikely).
    3 Upright the bike, then turn upside down a few times to get more bath oil out.
    4. Fill with the proper volumes SLOWLY through the top, after removing the foams out of the way. The bushings have slots to allow oil up and down.
    5. Compress the fork as close to bottom as you can and install the seals. The vacuum in the leg holds the seals from blowing out. I've now seen several 36's that are installed like this from the factory. Why they don't list that in the instructions is beyond me. Usually, the seals will blow out on compression if you don't do this step.

    Please note that the Fox 36 is not a "no maintenance" fork out of the factory. The seals are not oil seals and you have controlled weepage. Eventually you will deplete a good portion of your oil. Additionally, the seals are only really designed for low friction, so their job as dust seals is not that great, thus the Fox service to clear the grime out of the inside of the seal. The foams also need relubing every so often, presumably to replace the lost oil through the weepage. This is fairly credible since the foams are actually replenished with lube during the sliding and if you turn the bike upside down and let oil flow onto them.

    So if you're unable to do such things, don't buy a Fox 36. The biggest thing I worry about others not doing is checking the oil levels out of the box. It could save you a new bushing set and stanchion/crown assembly for next year (roughly $300 at time of posting).

    As far as turning the 36 into a little to no-maintenance fork, you obviously should use some high quality oil in the bath (some have not bothered with suspension oil and used motor oil instead, which could be valid, considering the anti-wear properties). Additionally, you need the dedicated oil seal and proper dust seal, such as the Enduros that I recommend to everyone with this fork.

    Otherwise, you have to pull the seals, clean (incompletely), add oil, etc every so often.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Tobe honest, I don't think you'll find a huge difference between the 36 over the Z1 (assuming an RC2). I did not. The 36 isn't appreciably longer (though it fit my needs), isn't much stiffer, isn't much more tunable (using oil level vs HSC), but is lighter.
    I replaced a Z1 FR SL (one of the greatest forks ever) with the 36 Talas RC2. I'm a huge Marzocchi fan, and was planning to buy the 55, but read the reviews. If yer gonna sink this much $$$ into a fork, take advice from other Marzocchi fans who posted a review.

    I bought the 36 because I needed more A/C. And I seem to be getting full travel out of mine. But I did drain and replenish oil in proper qty's on install. I'll let you know after I get back from Colorado.

  21. #21
    TLL
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007
    damnit.

    so why is everyone dumping their Fox 36's right now? There is a bunch of em in the classifieds, and the more I read about them the more interested I am. Perhaps this could be the fork to replace my Z1 on the spot?
    You didn't happen to see a 36 VAN with a hella long steertube by any chance, did you? I so need a VAN to compliment my soon to arrive CCDB.

    And since we are talking about the TALAS, I have been pretty happy with mine, even though I suspect I have low oil levels (which will get fixed next week), and even though it is only the poor man's R model.
    Hadley rear hub service here and here.

  22. #22
    TLL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    As far as turning the 36 into a little to no-maintenance fork, you obviously should use some high quality oil in the bath (some have not bothered with suspension oil and used motor oil instead, which could be valid, considering the anti-wear properties). Additionally, you need the dedicated oil seal and proper dust seal, such as the Enduros that I recommend to everyone with this fork.
    JC, how are you liking the Enduro seals so far? I have been thinking about trying the 09 36 Fox seals because they were supposedly improved, but when Fox says "improved" I just wonder.
    Hadley rear hub service here and here.

  23. #23
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    Love them. Once in a while, put some silicon oil or shock oil on them to help clean and lube and it's no maintenance otherwise. Great product.

    Bath oil has stayed clean, through lots of mud and sand.

  24. #24
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    I have used Enduro seals on other forks before and they have been great, but I am curious. What kind of problems are you guys having with the stock Fox seals?

    I have been running an '08 36 Talas for the past six months and it's been absolutely fantastic, probably the best fork I have ever used. To me it felt like a very big improvement over the Z1 Light, especially in the quality of the damping. It has a little more stiction then the Z1 but a much more controlled stroke throughout.

    I replaced the lubrication oil last month after a trip to Italy where the fork saw about 60,000ft of very dusty downhill riding in ten days and the oil was still clean. Both legs seemed to have roughly the right amount of oil.

  25. #25
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    I have an 09 36 Talas on the Spot and its a great combo - when the Talas cart is functioning properly. The adjustment feature WAS awesome, dial it to 100 for long climbs, 130 for dancing over single track and 160 when pedaling is not necessary. Now mine is stuck at 160. The front does lift on the really steep stuff. Otherwise the geometry is fantastic and the 36 really compliments the Spot. As it stands right now mine is 28.7 pounds of all mountain goodness - though that might jump a bit. I'm seriously considering a GD post for the Spot in the near future.

    As JC mentioned, check/change the oil and clean the foam wipers and seals. Its a pretty easy process. I bought some Enduro seals and will be putting them on soon. They look a lot more comprehensive than the stockers from Fox. Bought a quart of Spectro synthetic oil that should last quite awhile.

    Hubba - I'm a mechanical moron and I was easily able to disassemble the 36. Follow the quick oil change instructions from Fox that JC posted and you're good to go. It really is easy, you unbolt a few things off the bottom and the sliders just pop right off, pull the seals, clean, refill the oil and reassemble. First time I did it was about 45 minutes, and I REALLY took my time because I wanted to check out all the pieces as I pulled my fork apart.
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    The red couch has moved from Alaska to Florida...

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    Ugly bike.


  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Ugly bike.

    Word.
    The red couch has moved from Alaska to Florida...

  28. #28
    TLL
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Chris
    Word.
    After the ribbing you got for clamping your bike by the TT, I suprised you posted that pic up again.
    Hadley rear hub service here and here.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLL
    After the ribbing you got for clamping your bike by the TT, I suprised you posted that pic up again.
    Haven't had the chance to snap a new pic, but its just sitting in the clamp - I swear its not cinched down. I fixed the front brake cable too to keep all you douche nozzles (thanks Bones) from tearing me a new one for its improper routing.
    The red couch has moved from Alaska to Florida...

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Chris
    Hubba - I'm a mechanical moron and I was easily able to disassemble the 36. Follow the quick oil change instructions from Fox that JC posted and you're good to go. It really is easy, you unbolt a few things off the bottom and the sliders just pop right off, pull the seals, clean, refill the oil and reassemble. First time I did it was about 45 minutes, and I REALLY took my time because I wanted to check out all the pieces as I pulled my fork apart.
    Thanks for the info, were you replacing seals? just wondering what you did with the crush washers JC recommends to replace.

    I've got the LBS looking at it tomorrow so I'll see how that goes, I will definitely make it a winter project though to open her up and have a clean & lube session ... the fork that is

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by HubbaMan
    Thanks for the info, were you replacing seals? just wondering what you did with the crush washers JC recommends to replace.

    I've got the LBS looking at it tomorrow so I'll see how that goes, I will definitely make it a winter project though to open her up and have a clean & lube session ... the fork that is
    I reused mine. It's one of those things that is recommended to be renewed, but I saw how they're made, how they look and I can't imagine changing them after every use.

    However, it's at your own risk, as they are RECOMMENDED to be changed.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Chris
    I fixed the front brake cable too to keep all you douche nozzles (thanks Bones) from tearing me a new one for its improper routing.
    Don't forget, you can also accuse the douch nozzles of "douchenozzlery" as well . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by nybike1971
    I have used Enduro seals on other forks before and they have been great, but I am curious. What kind of problems are you guys having with the stock Fox seals?
    I haven't had any issues with mine, really, which is why I was thinking about trying the 09 Fox seals. But for a few dollars more, you can purchase Enduro seals, which have a proven track record. I'm not due for a seal/wiper change yet, but since I have to drain/check oil on mine, what the heck.
    Hadley rear hub service here and here.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by HubbaMan
    Thanks for the info, were you replacing seals? just wondering what you did with the crush washers JC recommends to replace.

    I've got the LBS looking at it tomorrow so I'll see how that goes, I will definitely make it a winter project though to open her up and have a clean & lube session ... the fork that is
    I just did the oil change as per Fox's instructions and I didn't replace anything. I just got the Enduro seals and I'm not up against another lube job, so they'll go in sometime in the next couple weeks.

    And I'm no expert, but if you're riding regularly I think you'll need to crack it open before winter.
    The red couch has moved from Alaska to Florida...

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Chris
    I just did the oil change as per Fox's instructions and I didn't replace anything. I just got the Enduro seals and I'm not up against another lube job, so they'll go in sometime in the next couple weeks.
    And I'm no expert, but if you're riding regularly I think you'll need to crack it open before winter.
    Just got back from the LBS, the mechanic took it out on the sidewalk, bounced really hard on it once and agreed it was short of oil. With a hard bounce (he's heavier then me) it got full travel but there was significant stiction at the end of the stroke. He did the whole deal right there in front of me while I waited (20 mins or so) so now I know it's an easy job to complete.

    I might do it again before the winter but it'll depend on how much riding I get in, a new baby boy and a crazy workload is eating into my ride time this season.

    Thanks guys for the information, as always, the Turner forum delivers!

    Clem

  35. #35
    FM
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    Digging my '09 talas so far.....

    feels more coil-like and less stiction than the '08.
    I did like the travel adjust lever on the '08 better though.

    Another thing that perplexes me, it seemed like the LS was more effective on the '08. I'm running %10 more air and +4 clicks of LS on my '09, compared to my '08, and it still rides a bit low in the travel for my taste (this pic for instance....) Maybe I need to add 5-7psi and back off the LS. I'd be over fox's reco'd pressure at that point.

    Anyways, a real good fork, not missing the marzocchis at all, even the good ones.


  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Chris
    Haven't had the chance to snap a new pic, but its just sitting in the clamp - I swear its not cinched down.
    That's how I typically clamp my Pack into my Ultimate too. The bottom side of the top tube rests on the two rubber rails and the clamp keeps the bike stationary with minimal force. I'm not sure why anyone would pick a Park clamp over an Ultimate, especially the Pro-Elite.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottay5150
    On a Spot. If I threw on some Push rockers on what would happen to my geometry? Would I have to change my pressure in my shock? Who has the rockers that they want to sell me?
    Scott
    What year spot you have? I have an '03 (5.3 rockers) with an 09 36 TALAS.

    Best. Fork. EVAAR!!

    First ride on the 36 was last Saturday, 4 hours of Whistler "west side" XC. I LOVE the 36 compared to the Vanilla 125 RLC that was on it. Never thought an air fork could feel as good as this! I'd prefer to keep the rockers "short" so the bike is nice and slack when the 36 is cranked out to 160mm...
    Taking it easy for all you sinners.

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