HL/Ardent/66RC3 update- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    HL/Ardent/66RC3 update

    So I now have an amazing 4 rides on the HL. Still learning how to ride the bike, but so far so good. I am starting to make some of the tech climbs, and pedaling is pretty good. Descending is still not what I expected, though it is getting better as I get the DHX dialed a bit better (with a 500lb spring now). I will be dropping a Chubbie/Woodie on it after I get back from my Moab trip. After hopping on the RFX, I realize just how much better the CCDB is than the DHX.

    The descending issue I think is more related to the fact that I am riding the bike like I would ride my RFX. When things get steep I get too far back on the bike, rather than staying more centered. The bike does rail though, and I am getting used to the quick steering.

    As for the Ardents, they have been replaced with a Minion DHF 2.7 3C. I think I have found the weak spot with these tires. Loose, steep braking. I realized on both of my weekend rides that the front end washed out at bad times when on the brakes, in the loose, gravely sections. Not sure if this is more riding technique (weight too far back) or the fact that the minimal braking edges available. I will get a few rides on the Minions for comparison. I never seem to have problems like this with the Minions on the RFX. The tires also seem to search for traction on off camber rocks.

    The 66RC3 just keeps getting better. The fork still has the trademark seal stiction, but seems to be getting better everyday. I did have to remove about 10mm of oil height from the RC3 side, but now I get full travel, and it is much smoother now. Loving the fork. Nice and stiff.
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  2. #2
    Lay off the Levers
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    +1 on much of what you just said.
    I had a similar experience making the transition from my 6P to the HL. Very different kind of ride. The bike is suprisingly nimble at speed though.

    +1 on the Ardents as well. Very good tire. Sketchy on looses dry stuff. Is there something that isn't? Let me know I want em.

    +1 on going to the Chubbie. Your DHX will quickly be forgotten.

    +1 on the riding position. I found I def don't have to be as far back for anything, decending, dropping or jumping.

    I'm still learning too.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  3. #3
    Homer's problem child
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    +1 on the Ardents as well. Very good tire. Sketchy on looses dry stuff. Is there something that isn't? Let me know I want em.
    Kenda Telonix. Rules the dry loose stuff, not so much on dry hardpack, but dust and gravel over hardpack and just plain dry loose conditions this tire rocks. Get the 2.4 Dual Tread Iron Caps for the trailbike and the DH StickE's for the big bike. i run a 2.6 DH front and 2.4 DH rear on my big bike. The 2.6 DH is massive and the 2.4's are bigger than 2.5 maxxis tires by a good bit.

    B
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  4. #4
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    2.7s don't seem a bit excessive? Can't imagine riding with bigger than 2.5s on any mountain bike; unless I'm continually plowing through slop not needing to turn or lift tires much.

    Still building up my HL, but I know I'll need to get used to the head angle since I'm coming off of a Judge with a few more degrees of slackness.

    Can't wait to ride!

  5. #5
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er
    The descending issue I think is more related to the fact that I am riding the bike like I would ride my RFX. When things get steep I get too far back on the bike, rather than staying more centered. The bike does rail though, and I am getting used to the quick steering.

    Not sure if this is more riding technique (weight too far back) or the fact that the minimal braking edges available.
    I'm no Wade, but I think you've already got the issue figured out.

    For me, confirmed with private instruction, progression of my riding has been the process of getting my weight low and centered or over the front wheel whenever possible. I used to get my weight back on steeps and transitions- I never endo'd but I often washed out. These days I stay low & forward when I can, centering my weight when I used to throw it back. I think bikes with longer wheelbases really demand this.

    Are you running an internal headset or 8.75" rear shock? I wouldn't think of the highline as "quick steering" unless you're running either of these combined with a SC fork.

    Just my .02 as a "seasoned highline owner"

  6. #6
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    Brandon, keep us posted on the RC3. A couple of my buddies are running them, and they have been problematic. The ATA version has dial down issues, and the coil version has top out and hub slop issues.

    I agree with Bortis on the Kenda Telonix. I ran one on the rear of my bike at Brian Head last weekend, and it really hooked up. It is a singleply 2.4 DTC version, but the sidewall is as stout if not more than a big betty. It really hooks up and brakes very well. The only downside is that it's a slow roller.
    Team Sanchez; "Always hittin the upper lip"

  7. #7
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er
    I never seem to have problems like this with the Minions on the RFX. The tires also seem to search for traction on off camber rocks.
    Agreed. The only thing that seemed to just "grab" rocks like my minions was my michelin 24.1, but as soft as my minion STs were, the 24.1 was softer and wore faster. It's just that as you go over the solid rock stuff, those types of tires seem to "grap" the rocks and hold a line like crazy.

    Anyways, it's going to be even longer for me to build up the highline, because I just broke my 6pack@ the seat tube. I got a RFX on the way and I'll focus my efforts and getting that going, and then go back to the HL in a while.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin G
    2.7s don't seem a bit excessive? Can't imagine riding with bigger than 2.5s on any mountain bike; unless I'm continually plowing through slop not needing to turn or lift tires much.

    Still building up my HL, but I know I'll need to get used to the head angle since I'm coming off of a Judge with a few more degrees of slackness.

    Can't wait to ride!
    I run 2.7/2.5 on my RFX and on the HL. Here in Arizona, we have lots of granite, chowder, and lots of little things that will swallow smaller, narrower tires.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er
    I run 2.7/2.5 on my RFX and on the HL. Here in Arizona, we have lots of granite, chowder, and lots of little things that will swallow smaller, narrower tires.
    Yeah, if we had hard packed moist dirt on all of the trails, then yeah...
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    o

    Are you running an internal headset or 8.75" rear shock? I wouldn't think of the highline as "quick steering" unless you're running either of these combined with a SC fork.

    Just my .02 as a "seasoned highline owner"
    Nope, I am running a King 1.5 with a Thomson 45mmstem and a Sunline 28" V2 low rise bar. I think the quickness comes from the shorter stem. I run a Thomson 100mm zero degree stem on the RFX, with a Diabolis 28" bar.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Chingon
    Brandon, keep us posted on the RC3. A couple of my buddies are running them, and they have been problematic. The ATA version has dial down issues, and the coil version has top out and hub slop issues.
    EL C, have your buddies check the inside of the brake arch. If there is a green dot, it is the first production run of forks, a red dot signifies the new 2008.5 forks with the updates.
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

  12. #12
    Yay! Bikes !
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    I just broke my 6pack@ the seat tube.
    Ouch, dude.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    I wouldn't think of the highline as "quick steering" unless you're running either of these combined with a SC fork.
    For some us though that are switching from slacker, longer wheelbase DH bikes, then the HL will be more agile.

    My Judge honestly wasn't too bike-park or singletrack friendly; long wheelbase, long chainstay, slack head angle - the bike craved going down steep and at high speeds, but once you throw it into tight and slower FR situations then it was just too much to handle. It's for racing; at least that's my conclusion.

    I guess it's all relative!

    But my goal is to have my HL be both agile and sturdy (for a FR bike), and am hoping my build will produce that.

    Next year though I'm hoping to get a DHR and race it! Keep those sales coming...

  14. #14
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    Pics???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Agreed. The only thing that seemed to just "grab" rocks like my minions was my michelin 24.1, but as soft as my minion STs were, the 24.1 was softer and wore faster. It's just that as you go over the solid rock stuff, those types of tires seem to "grap" the rocks and hold a line like crazy.

    Anyways, it's going to be even longer for me to build up the highline, because I just broke my 6pack@ the seat tube. I got a RFX on the way and I'll focus my efforts and getting that going, and then go back to the HL in a while.
    How did that happen? Out on some World Class trails?

    bobo

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobo_krkk_NIN
    How did that happen? Out on some World Class trails?

    bobo
    PM me if you want details.
    Last edited by Jayem; 07-29-2008 at 07:49 PM.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  16. #16
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin G
    For some us though that are switching from slacker, longer wheelbase DH bikes, then the HL will be more agile.
    Ah- that explains it

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin G
    2.7s don't seem a bit excessive? Can't imagine riding with bigger than 2.5s on any mountain bike; unless I'm continually plowing through slop not needing to turn or lift tires much.

    Still building up my HL, but I know I'll need to get used to the head angle since I'm coming off of a Judge with a few more degrees of slackness.

    Can't wait to ride!
    2.7" labeled Maxxis = 2.4" measured tire.

  18. #18
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    because I just broke my 6pack@ the seat tube. I got a RFX on the way and I'll focus my efforts and getting that going, and then go back to the HL in a while.
    Too much chubbie

    Sheesh man, bad luck that sucks

    So new RFX and HL
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  19. #19
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    What happens if there is a green dot?

    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er
    EL C, have your buddies check the inside of the brake arch. If there is a green dot, it is the first production run of forks, a red dot signifies the new 2008.5 forks with the updates.
    Do you know if Marz will update/provide new lower for the bushing slop issue?

    Thanks!
    "And I shout that your all fakes and you should have seen the look on your face"

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenglow
    Do you know if Marz will update/provide new lower for the bushing slop issue?

    Thanks!
    I would hope so, my understanding is that the defective parts have been destroyed.
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  21. #21
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenglow
    Do you know if Marz will update/provide new lower for the bushing slop issue?

    Thanks!
    The main reasons from Marz tech in thwe Dh thread was that old worn out tooling was used for the new production, or one of the reasons so tolerences suffered, Ive posted elsewhere that its seemed a bad and obvious call! that for a new line, new factory you'd use old tooling

    They have apparently identified this and rectified it, so time will tell I guess, seem like some get a great run and when they do they really talk em up, if not then we know the out come!
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  22. #22
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    Well, this was another spectaular weekend. I am really getting comfortable on the bike. I have started to figure out the riding position thing and getting low on the bike. This bike RAILS like no other bike I have been on. Climbing is tolerable, and I will leave it at that.

    This weekend I changed the front tire out to a 2.7 Minion 3C and it is WORLDS better than the Ardent in our conditions here. Today we hit a new trail that was nothing but scree (baseball and tennis ball size, mixed with sand) and it was steep for quite a bit. Braking was amazing, no sliding out, everything was just as expected. The tires do have some float that the Ardents do not, but overall the Minions bigger tread makes for a better tire in loose conditions.

    I did pick up the RFX today, and it felt awefully light I have been on the HL for 6 straight rides now, so I think next week will be time to do some compare and contrast with the RFX
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