Has Turner Closed the doors?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Has Turner Closed the doors?

    Have had no success reaching Turner the last couple of days trying to order a new der hanger. The phone and fax have been shut down and no response to email and the website is full of error messages and is really wonky. Anybody know the story? Have they shut down?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stroganof View Post
    Have had no success reaching Turner the last couple of days trying to order a new der hanger. The phone and fax have been shut down and no response to email and the website is full of error messages and is really wonky. Anybody know the story? Have they shut down?
    That's been the question for some time now. No official word yet, but all signs point to yes they are closed.

    One thing that would be great for everyone who owns a Turner is for someone to pick up their spare parts inventory.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by xler8 View Post
    That's been the question for some time now. No official word yet, but all signs point to yes they are closed.

    One thing that would be great for everyone who owns a Turner is for someone to pick up their spare parts inventory.
    They didn't even have replacement links for my RFX and that was a year ago. I'm guessing they're inventory isn't overly large.

    I had one bearing wallow out with the faulty epoxy bonding on the pivot that surfaced as an issue for some. Bearing retaining compound is doing the trick for now and they fixed the frame and turned it around fast. Always great CS. Anyhow, best wishes to the Turner family going forward.

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    I have no knowledge of the big question but I do believe they have been on the road attending some CX races. Just info gathered from Facebook.

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    Don't post often, but if true, this is a sad way to end the story. I owned multiple Turner's in the heyday of the brand and will always consider myself a fan but the lack of info about the future of the company is a real turn off considering the loyalty built over the years. Turner's CS was second to none. Seems a shame to treat his most loyal fan base with such indifference. I understand if the company's future is in limbo but considering the man himself would post here regularly I would think he could throw the most loyal (those who still haunt this forum) a bone. Either way, get out and ride!!!

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    I'm still riding my repaird rfx as my second bike,shame if they have closed doors!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjdiesel View Post
    Don't post often, but if true, this is a sad way to end the story. I owned multiple Turner's in the heyday of the brand and will always consider myself a fan but the lack of info about the future of the company is a real turn off considering the loyalty built over the years. Turner's CS was second to none. Seems a shame to treat his most loyal fan base with such indifference.
    Agreed, seems like a pretty lousy way to wind up one of the pioneering brands of full suspension bikes.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stroganof View Post
    Have had no success reaching Turner the last couple of days trying to order a new der hanger. The phone and fax have been shut down and no response to email and the website is full of error messages and is really wonky. Anybody know the story? Have they shut down?
    If there's any hope for the company, he has sold to a distributor, and all the radio silence/downed website/disconnected phone service is a result of negotiations. And then once everything's in place, it'll be up and running. If that's not the case, the company is dead.

    In the meantime, you can get your derailleur hanger at Wheels. No solution for the other bits anyone might need.
    Last edited by The R; 12-18-2019 at 01:44 PM.

  9. #9
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    I loved my 2011 Turner Sultan. In its day, it was state of the art.

    I also loved getting the cash when I sold it to buy an even better FS bike.

    It's over, my friends. It's over. Time to let go & move on.
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    It would be nice to hear something from DT. He doesnít owe anyone anything, just wish him well.


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    Has Turner Closed the doors?-screen-shot-2019-12-18-8.16.33-pm.jpg
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

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    They may be just redoing the website. My links to the old Turner catalogs are still working.
    I've currently got 3 Turners still in operation under wife and kids. They don't get beat much so haven't needed parts x fingers.
    I just got a new Banshee Titan in Black Ano. Wow does it look like my Burner V3.1. Nice. Nothing like nice bead blasted and anodized aluminum with stacked dimes on the weld fillets.

  13. #13
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    I think they are done. If you go to their website, it is all wonky as stated above. In the description for each of the bikes you get this:

    Now available exclusively from Cambria Bicycle Outfitters, with more parts options than we could ever provide. Follow link for pricing..

    Turner Flux 27.5" Full Suspension Frame

    It takes you to links of the Flux, RFX, Cyclosys and Czar at 30% off at CBO. Id love to see them come back, but this looks like the end. Ill enjoy my RFX for as long as I can I guess.

  14. #14
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    Has Turner Closed the doors?

    Closed or not, a companyís website is the front door to their business. It is very telling to let these issues continue with no effort to address the problem. You wouldn't approach a store if all the lights were off and the windows blacked out would you?
    Last edited by chowdapilot; 12-19-2019 at 04:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chowdapilot View Post
    It would be nice to hear something from DT. He doesnít owe anyone anything, just wish him well.


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    I mean, if you're looking for a part or something, I think it'd be more than just "nice" to hear something about the existence of the company you bought a, not cheap, bike from. From some of the reports, they don't even have an active phone number.

    Anyone know if they're answering emails? Thankfully, I believe my RFX is in good shape for awhile, but sucks for those who need say new bearings.

    I think every Turner fan wishes DT well if in fact he's thrown in the towel. Most everyone knows the boutique bike business in the US today is hard and would be nothing but sympathetic. The e-bike train is coming fast. Having to outsource carbon is a ridiculously prohibitive for small outfits.

    It's the radio silence that's the weirdest part of it.

  16. #16
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    You can easily source bearings elsewhere, they are not specific to the RFX or Turner. The other parts would be more of an issue in my opinion.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    You can easily source bearings elsewhere, they are not specific to the RFX or Turner. The other parts would be more of an issue in my opinion.
    Yeah, for the people running the older bushing based systems, we are most likely out of luck.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  18. #18
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    Here's hoping for some good news

  19. #19
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    Donít worry friends, a clapped out turner bike is legit and gold compared to the non gnomer companies out there and turner bike is just fixing up some quirks and will be back in full force w a legit lineup!

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    I have a set of Push made bushings for a 6 Pack that I never did use if anybody is looking for some.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenmtb View Post
    I mean, if you're looking for a part or something, I think it'd be more than just "nice" to hear something about the existence of the company you bought a, not cheap, bike from.

    Anyone know if they're answering emails?


    It's the radio silence that's the weirdest part of it.
    Sorry, guys. Radio silence seems pretty par for the course in my experience. My experience is that emails and calls have been largely ignored since before I bought my bike last year. Somehow they earned a reputation of great customer service, but it has not been my experience at all. Maybe that's the way it used to be, and it's gone by the wayside in the last year or two as the company struggles -- first things first. Gotta do what you gotta do, you know? The more recent developments with the website and phone are just the tip of the iceberg.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by The R View Post
    Sorry, guys. Radio silence seems pretty par for the course in my experience. My experience is that emails and calls have been largely ignored since before I bought my bike last year. Somehow they earned a reputation of great customer service, but it has not been my experience at all. Maybe that's the way it used to be, and it's gone by the wayside in the last year or two as the company struggles -- first things first. Gotta do what you gotta do, you know? The more recent developments with the website and phone are just the tip of the iceberg.
    I would not agree with this at all. I ordered a main pivot kit for my 5-spot at the end of July and while there was some delay in shipping, when I contacted them they addressed it and got it to me ASAP. Very appreciative of that. When I have had reason to talk with them, they have been very nice and supportive.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archer13 View Post
    Notice, in the follow up, when asked if Turner is closing down, she simply repeats that they are working on the website.

    One possibility, which others have suggested, is that Turner is in the midst of some form of confidential discussions or another - which are routine in any major re-organization of a business. That could be good or bad, ranging anywhere from shutting down to various strategies to re-invent and survive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    I would not agree with this at all. I ordered a main pivot kit for my 5-spot at the end of July and while there was some delay in shipping, when I contacted them they addressed it and got it to me ASAP. Very appreciative of that. When I have had reason to talk with them, they have been very nice and supportive.
    Delay in shipping? Had the same issue with a derailleur hanger. Long ordeal followed as a result of not getting the hanger on time. If two guys on a dying forum have the same issue with shipping delays within months of each other, I wouldn't exactly call that good customer service.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by The R View Post
    Delay in shipping? Had the same issue with a derailleur hanger. Long ordeal followed as a result of not getting the hanger on time. If two guys on a dying forum have the same issue with shipping delays within months of each other, I wouldn't exactly call that good customer service.
    Well, it was a simple issue that caused about a 5 day delay. Honesty, they responded to communication quickly and did there best to handle it. To me, I found the CS to be good.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenmtb View Post
    Notice, in the follow up, when asked if Turner is closing down, she simply repeats that they are working on the website.

    One possibility, which others have suggested, is that Turner is in the midst of some form of confidential discussions or another - which are routine in any major re-organization of a business. That could be good or bad, ranging anywhere from shutting down to various strategies to re-invent and survive.
    Yeah, that does not sound good. I remember when they dumped all their 5-spots DT was pretty frank in saying nobody was buying 26" bikes anymore and that new bikes were coming.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Yeah, for the people running the older bushing based systems, we are most likely out of luck.
    The bushings used can easily be replaced with the IGUS bushings.

    Just google IGUS.

  29. #29
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    The loyalty this brand had was magical. The fact that anyone is still sticking around hoping for better times, is incredible. Itís so sad to see so much goodwill go into a downward spiral and dwindle down to nothing. I know next to nothing about the brandís history but itís amazing to me that this business was not sold as a going concern long ago, when things started to go into a tailspin. The amount of blown goodwill must be astronomical.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by renoirbud View Post
    The bushings used can easily be replaced with the IGUS bushings.

    Just google IGUS.
    Great tip. But what do you do about the pin?
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

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    This post, ďwhat ever happened...Ē and now Facebook discussing the demise of Turner would make DT respond if it wasnít true? After all, this speculation wonít be finding customers. But as Barnum pointed out ďthereís no such thing as bad publicityĒ.
    I just wish DT would put an end to this by unveiling new bikes but itís not going to happen. If it was, it would of happened by now. And if someone replies new bikes are just around the corner, please prove it.
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  32. #32
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    Come on guys. You're more likely to see Santa coming down your chimney than a new lineup of Turner bikes being unveiled. Jeezus. Seriously?
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  33. #33
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    My first really ďgoodĒ bike back in the day was a 5Spot. Will always have a soft spot for Turner, though the brand hasnít really been relevant for a few years.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    My first really ďgoodĒ bike back in the day was a 5Spot. Will always have a soft spot for Turner, though the brand hasnít really been relevant for a few years.
    My 1st bad ass bike was the OG 5spot and it still ranks in my top 3 all time. That said, the brand hasnít been relevant for years. In fact, the only people that even know the brand are older folks like myself. If DT is going to revive the brand, heíll need to do it soon as Turnerís recognition is quickly fading.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Great tip. But what do you do about the pin?
    The pins do not wear out on my bikes.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by renoirbud View Post
    The pins do not wear out on my bikes.

    That makes sense. Plastic wears before the metal! I am an idiot.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by chowdapilot View Post
    My 1st bad ass bike was the OG 5spot and it still ranks in my top 3 all time. That said, the brand hasnít been relevant for years. In fact, the only people that even know the brand are older folks like myself. If DT is going to revive the brand, heíll need to do it soon as Turnerís recognition is quickly fading.


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    I get what youíre saying, but on the other hand, a dozen years ago Ibis was a half-remembered brand of boutique steel hardtails.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    I get what youíre saying, but on the other hand, a dozen years ago Ibis was a half-remembered brand of boutique steel hardtails.
    True


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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Well, it was a simple issue that caused about a 5 day delay. Honesty, they responded to communication quickly and did there best to handle it. To me, I found the CS to be good.
    I hear you, and I'm glad it worked out for you. But in my case, they did not respond to communication at all. Three calls during business hours went unanswered. I left a message that they also never answered. Even if they had called to say, "Sorry, there's nothing we can do," it would have been much better than being ignored completely.

    But there were red flags along the way. I sent them a couple emails before I bought the telling them I would be in Southern California, and was interested in demo. Unanswered.

    In the end, I bought the bike based on their past reputation and great reviews and because the geometry measurements seemed to be right for me. If I had to do it over again, though, I don't think I would.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyerose123 View Post
    This post, ďwhat ever happened...Ē and now Facebook discussing the demise of Turner would make DT respond if it wasnít true?
    Not necessarily. As I have mentioned in this and other threads in this forum, he might not be replying because there's a possibility he can't if he's in negotiations with a distributor or a buyer for his company or something like that. Maybe that's a long shot, but it is a possibility.

    I saw yesterday the Turnerbikes had been browsing this thread. No replies, so like I said... maybe he's in a situation where he can't.

  41. #41
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    I sold my 2006/2008 five spot in July of this year. My 5-spot finished out its career as a DS racer (it's high bottom bracket was not very ideal, and I replaced it with a Specialized DS racer)......I'm riding a GT Sensor 29'er right now, and can't believe I'm actually saying this, but that GT is infinitely better at EVERYTHING when compared to my ol' five spot - in every way imaginable. I hopped on the Turner train back in 1998 with a shiny polished Burner, and at the time it was hands and tails superior to almost anything on the market back then. That's why Turner established itself as such a big-player in the higher end niche mtb world. Today, everyone has not only caught up, but far surpassed anything a small boutique manufacturer like Turner can provide (even on the much reviled Ellsworth site, their frame geometry is also frozen in 2010 - many of you still remember that glorious rivalry). While I'll always keep some melancholy for my Turner riding days, one cannot deny that the 'glory days' are over.....It's been fun y'all!
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokermtb View Post
    I sold my 2006/2008 five spot in July of this year. My 5-spot finished out its career as a DS racer (it's high bottom bracket was not very ideal, and I replaced it with a Specialized DS racer)......I'm riding a GT Sensor 29'er right now, and can't believe I'm actually saying this, but that GT is infinitely better at EVERYTHING when compared to my ol' five spot - in every way imaginable. I hopped on the Turner train back in 1998 with a shiny polished Burner, and at the time it was hands and tails superior to almost anything on the market back then. That's why Turner established itself as such a big-player in the higher end niche mtb world. Today, everyone has not only caught up, but far surpassed anything a small boutique manufacturer like Turner can provide (even on the much reviled Ellsworth site, their frame geometry is also frozen in 2010 - many of you still remember that glorious rivalry). While I'll always keep some melancholy for my Turner riding days, one cannot deny that the 'glory days' are over.....It's been fun y'all!
    Well, yah. Pretty much all bikes these days are better than they were in 2006. That would include the Sultan, Burner, Flux, Czar and RFX 4.0. IMO the RFX has aged well and is still a fantastic bike by modern standards.

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    Turner bikes!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stroganof View Post
    Well, yah. Pretty much all bikes these days are better than they were in 2006. That would include the Sultan, Burner, Flux, Czar and RFX 4.0. IMO the RFX has aged well and is still a fantastic bike by modern standards.
    Yes. I was going to say the same thing -- any bike made today would be better than a bike made in 2006. Any bike made in 2010 would be better than something made in 2006. I know a lot of people in this forum like to say think otherwise, and that their 2011 Turner is just as good as any thing made today, but it's really not.

    I'm also not sure about the RFX 4.0 aging well. A lot of people would say the reach is too short, the HTA not slack enough and the chainstays too long. Personally, the bike does not feel too short to me compared to others, and it's stable and nimble. Sixty-six degrees is plenty slack for me. A lot of good things about the bike, but people will look at the geo numbers and dismiss it. And maybe there's something to that -- while it is a solid bike, I've ridden newer bikes that I prefer.

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    I am 6ft tall, switched from a Large to an XL RFX 4.0 added SRAM AXIS, there, now my RFX is all modern.

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    This business of the RFX 4.0 not aging well is horseshit. My LBS lent me a brand new Bronson for a month (because they rock) after routine maintenance on my Monarch went bad. I thought Iíd fall in love with it and end up buying, because you know, latest and greatest geometry, head angle, cc carbon, etc. I dialed it in pretty good, tokens, air pressure, and thought it rode pretty well. The VPP wasnít as supple as the DW-Link, but still a nice ride. First day back on my RFX a month later and I PRíd three trails as per my Garmin. So for me, the RFX is still very relevant. Iíd love to see a situation where Dave comes up with something new and better.

    And as for customer service, I spoke to the man in September when I ordered some parts for my bike. I called, he answered, we had a long conversation. Whatever happened over there, happened suddenly. If he folded, Iím pretty sure it would have been all over Pinkbike, Vital, etc. that Turner has gone out of business, since if someone MTB-industry related farts, one of those websites reports it.

  47. #47
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    I don't think that it looks good for the future of Turner........that I can see.
    However, Dave has to take care of Himself and his family!
    Whatever happens I wish him good luck!

    The little I know of the biking industry, one thing is, it is ruthless, fickle and difficult.
    You can go from hero to zero or vice versa pretty quick.

    I still will keep my Turners and still ride them.
    I guess I should have bought another package of bushings......Like Vespasainus said.

    Good Luck DT!
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  48. #48
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    Somebody on the FB group posted "Is there any official announcement re the future of the turner brand? Surely some of the members of this group would ride and socialize with dave and some others of the turner crew that work there."

    I responded thusly

    "Without wishing to make light of this with puns...
    ...thereís a lot riding on it, any change of direction would be a shock
    ...hopefully our collective passion has a bearing on Turners decision
    ...and that the company springs back like an uncaged lion, and can stay the course
    ...and it isnít saddled with ongoing issues or need to pivot
    ...that would dampen our enthusiasm.
    Letís Push on "

  49. #49
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    God bless turner bikes

    Turner bikes are the best

  50. #50
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    I thought the last and recent mentions by 'him' were of getting out and riding.
    That can be pretty simple interpreted as a vacation or 'mental floss' and it just might fit with the theory he has options, considering changes or in the decision process of -- -- ?
    Days weeks or more, I'm sure it'll get ironed out and found out.
    "Before you criticize, you should walk a mile in their shoes. You'll be a mile away from them and you have their shoes"

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    Quote Originally Posted by VMaxx View Post
    This business of the RFX 4.0 not aging well is horseshit. My LBS lent me a brand new Bronson for a month (because they rock) after routine maintenance on my Monarch went bad. I thought Iíd fall in love with it and end up buying, because you know, latest and greatest geometry, head angle, cc carbon, etc. I dialed it in pretty good, tokens, air pressure, and thought it rode pretty well. The VPP wasnít as supple as the DW-Link, but still a nice ride. First day back on my RFX a month later and I PRíd three trails as per my Garmin. So for me, the RFX is still very relevant. Iíd love to see a situation where Dave comes up with something new and better.

    And as for customer service, I spoke to the man in September when I ordered some parts for my bike. I called, he answered, we had a long conversation. Whatever happened over there, happened suddenly. If he folded, Iím pretty sure it would have been all over Pinkbike, Vital, etc. that Turner has gone out of business, since if someone MTB-industry related farts, one of those websites reports it.
    My problem is, I had to rent another bike because of the derailleur hanger situation, and I did fall in love with it. I don't know if it was the geometry or what -- can you really feel an extra inch and a half of reach? -- but I jumped on it and felt more at home in one ride than in the two months I had on the RFX to that point. Much more confidence inspiring.

    That said, the RFX is a good bike. The only peace of the puzzle I can't figure out is you and others have talked about how supple it is. I've heard the word "bottomless" thrown about in regard to travel. I've talked about it in other forums here, but it just feels harsh to me. I had a 2010 Specialized Enduro 26 before the RFX, and the Enduro is far more supple than the RFX, even with the smaller wheels. Overall, the RFX is a better bike. It climbs way better. It holds lines better. It's better in the air. But riding across rock fields is like a jack hammer in comparison. Landing a drop is nowhere near as soft. I'm just not seeing the suppleness with the RFX. Others have made suggestions elsewhere, primarily in the form of getting a better shock than the Monarch. I'll give it a shot this spring.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by The R View Post
    their 2011 Turner is just as good as any thing made today, but it's really not

    I have a 2011 5-Spot and a new Ibis Ripley. They are different no doubt but I find the 5 spot to be a very fun bike that does lots of things really well. Honestly, it bobs less than the Ripley.

    I often think most people who talk about their "new bike with new technology" being substantially better than their old bike comes down to finally on a correctly sized bike with a modern drivetrain and components. For example, GT's new Sensor are simple HL bikes that work great with a single chainring. Fork and shock technology has gotten better. I still laugh at people talking about a 0.5 angle change when their choice of tires can impact that as well as "Chinese" manufacturing. LOL.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The R View Post
    My problem is, I had to rent another bike because of the derailleur hanger situation, and I did fall in love with it. I don't know if it was the geometry or what -- can you really feel an extra inch and a half of reach? -- but I jumped on it and felt more at home in one ride than in the two months I had on the RFX to that point. Much more confidence inspiring.

    That said, the RFX is a good bike. The only peace of the puzzle I can't figure out is you and others have talked about how supple it is. I've heard the word "bottomless" thrown about in regard to travel. I've talked about it in other forums here, but it just feels harsh to me. I had a 2010 Specialized Enduro 26 before the RFX, and the Enduro is far more supple than the RFX, even with the smaller wheels. Overall, the RFX is a better bike. It climbs way better. It holds lines better. It's better in the air. But riding across rock fields is like a jack hammer in comparison. Landing a drop is nowhere near as soft. I'm just not seeing the suppleness with the RFX. Others have made suggestions elsewhere, primarily in the form of getting a better shock than the Monarch. I'll give it a shot this spring.
    The stock shock is ok, the FOX X2 Air improves everything.

  54. #54
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    Turner is for sale. There's hope that whomever buys the brand will keep Dave around to design the frames, but for now it's wait and see. I spoke to a guy from Cambria who bought Turner's remaining inventory and has it for sale. He says they're trying to buy the remaining parts inventory.
    I think maybe it became too difficult for a smaller company like Turner to keep up with the ever changing axle standards, frame material trends, and geo fads. Plus trying to find reliable frame manufacturers had been a problem ever since Zen stopped welding for Turner and Dave had to go to Asia to find a good Carbon manufacturer.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bondseye View Post
    Turner is for sale. There's hope that whomever buys the brand will keep Dave around to design the frames, but for now it's wait and see. I spoke to a guy from Cambria who bought Turner's remaining inventory and has it for sale now. He says they're trying to buy the remaining parts inventory.
    I think maybe it became too difficult for a smaller company like Turner to keep up with the ever changing axle standards, frame material trends, and geo fads. Plus trying to find reliable frame manufacturers had been a problem ever since Zen stopped welding for Turner.

    Well, that is sad. Turner without Dave Turner is well, Titus without Chris Cocalis. Not many sizes still left at Cambria so either the stock was small or people snatched them up quick.
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  56. #56
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    Dave was always a designer not a manufacturer. Hopefully someone will recognize the value of Dave's designs, and Turner's fan loyalty and build some updated frames. As long as the BB is threaded I'll be among the first in line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bondseye View Post
    Dave was always a designer not a manufacturer. Hopefully someone will recognize the value of Dave's designs, and Turner's fan loyalty and build some updated frames. As long as the BB is threaded I'll be among the first in line.
    Hi Bondseye,

    Thanks for your comment re: Turner being for sale

    As far as which BB standard is better (which depends on ones priorities), I found this video from Hambini to highly informative. As background, Hambini is an aerospace engineer, who's worked for F1 teams. His videos are informative entertaining.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrZ2wnS5X4s
    Pressfit vs Threaded Bottom Brackets: An Engineering Analysis

    It backs up what Chris Cocalis (Pivot) said earlier this year in a podcast re: BB tolerances being key, and that from a pure performance point of view, press fit is better. The closer to perfect that alignment is, the better the longevity, the less friction there will be, and any press fit won't creak. In this case, perfect means (1) specifying reasonable tolerances - which is part of the design, and (2) manufacturing to tolerances.

    Have a look at this video re: the problem with specifying BB tolerances that aren't reasonable.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWDztuezn0g


    Regarding your comment that Turner isn't a manufacturer. Turner is/was a great bike company. It's great designs were manufactured well, then supported with great customer service. For a Turner Mark II to be successful it'll need more than good designs. I can't imagine someone with Dave's integrity selling the brand to anyone who wouldn't commit to high standards of manufacturing and support.

    Let's hope that the planets align!

    It'd be awesome if say...Darren from Push, or if Dave Weagle purchased Turner... Chris Cocalis could even start expanding his empire.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuddleDuck View Post
    Hi Bondseye,

    Thanks for your comment re: Turner being for sale

    As far as which BB standard is better (which depends on ones priorities), I found this video from Hambini to highly informative. As background, Hambini is an aerospace engineer, who's worked for F1 teams. His videos are informative entertaining.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrZ2wnS5X4s
    Pressfit vs Threaded Bottom Brackets: An Engineering Analysis

    It backs up what Chris Cocalis (Pivot) said earlier this year in a podcast re: BB tolerances being key, and that from a pure performance point of view, press fit is better. The closer to perfect that alignment is, the better the longevity, the less friction there will be, and any press fit won't creak. In this case, perfect means (1) specifying reasonable tolerances - which is part of the design, and (2) manufacturing to tolerances.

    Have a look at this video re: the problem with specifying BB tolerances that aren't reasonable.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWDztuezn0g


    Regarding your comment that Turner isn't a manufacturer. Turner is/was a great bike company. It's great designs were manufactured well, then supported with great customer service. For a Turner Mark II to be successful it'll need more than good designs. I can't imagine someone with Dave's integrity selling the brand to anyone who wouldn't commit to high standards of manufacturing and support.

    Let's hope that the planets align!

    It'd be awesome if say...Darren from Push, or if Dave Weagle purchased Turner... Chris Cocalis could even start expanding his empire.
    thanks for the link.

    I've personally had enough bad luck with press fit that I won't buy another bike that isn't threaded no matter what videos I watch. That's just my personal preference born of bad experiences not scientific at all. To each their own.

    As for Turner not being a manufacturer all I'm referring to is the fact that the frames we bought were never manufactured, welded, or built by Dave Turner himself. As far as I'm aware the frames themselves were always manufactured by a third party which would make staying up with ever changing trends and standards more difficult. He's a frame designer not a frame builder. Hopefully he will be again.

    I'd love to see someone with deep pockets buy the brand, and allow Dave to design and run things as he sees fit, but that obviously wasn't sustainable.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by The R View Post
    My problem is, I had to rent another bike because of the derailleur hanger situation, and I did fall in love with it. I don't know if it was the geometry or what -- can you really feel an extra inch and a half of reach? -- but I jumped on it and felt more at home in one ride than in the two months I had on the RFX to that point. Much more confidence inspiring.

    That said, the RFX is a good bike. The only peace of the puzzle I can't figure out is you and others have talked about how supple it is. I've heard the word "bottomless" thrown about in regard to travel. I've talked about it in other forums here, but it just feels harsh to me. I had a 2010 Specialized Enduro 26 before the RFX, and the Enduro is far more supple than the RFX, even with the smaller wheels. Overall, the RFX is a better bike. It climbs way better. It holds lines better. It's better in the air. But riding across rock fields is like a jack hammer in comparison. Landing a drop is nowhere near as soft. I'm just not seeing the suppleness with the RFX. Others have made suggestions elsewhere, primarily in the form of getting a better shock than the Monarch. I'll give it a shot this spring.
    DW-Link bikes have a very small sweet spot, setting them up properly takes some effort, but you will be rewarded with an amazing ride. The RFX in particular is happiest with a sag a little more than 30%, around 32-33%. Rebound should also be kept light, unless youíre riding high-speed jump trails. The Monarch plus may not be the best shock on the planet, but itís not that bad, and you should be able to dial in a good ride with it, no reason why you shouldnít. I donít believe that your solution should be to automatically go and spend $4-500+ on a new shock. Volume reducers are also key. Unless youíre very light, you will need them. The suspension curve on most DW bikes is very linear, so youíll need said spacers to dial in the support and bottom-out youíre looking for. Donít forget that you will need to adjust air pressure as you add/remove them. As an example, I weigh around 170lbs and run 3 spacers at around 197 psi. I also donít run too much pre-load in my fork, as DW likes to be over-driven a little by the fork. The terrain I ride is mostly natural tech with a lot of jumps and drops. The bike came to me with all 6 tokens installed, and rode like shit (should have looked before my first ride, but I was too stoked).

    As for Turner being sold, I will stay on the ride as long as Dave and DW are still designing the bikes, other wise Iím punching out.

  60. #60
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    Best of luck to Dave and the Turner family. Dave produced some awesome bikes that crushed the big brands. I think economy of scale caught up and he has found that a lot of the newest trends add marginal gains with regards to riding experience. I have sold my Turner Burner this year and moved on to a Yeti both great bikes but I don't regret moving on from Turner as the writing has been on the wall for this moment to happen.

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    Turner + Ventana + DWL + modern geometry + made in America carbon + (short travel 29er + mid travel 29er + AM 27.5) = one sweet bike. Could such a fame, maybe $4500, sell in enough quantities to upscale buyers? Even made in China, the Turner name has rep. At the end of the day a business has to be profitable.

    How many great bike companies have come and gone when their leader for whatever reason are not driving the company? During my generation, many. Kind of depressing.


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    As a person who ran marketing for a company that was going under and trying to sell itself off, I can tell you that everything goes to shit, the bills stop getting paid, but the website is sacrosanct, nothing can happen to that.

    The website is the first stop for any prospective buyer and any indication that the company is on the ropes totally screws up the bargaining position. If things were going well, they'd be addressing the website. And if there were functional issues with the site (which I doubt based on the errors showing up) you'd be all over social media and forums like this explaining what is going on.

    Dave was down the street at a friend's house a couple years ago, I'll try to ping my friend and see if he has any info.
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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
    Turner + Ventana + DWL + modern geometry + made in America carbon + (short travel 29er + mid travel 29er + AM 27.5) = one sweet bike. Could such a fame, maybe $4500, sell in enough quantities to upscale buyers? Even made in China, the Turner name has rep. At the end of the day a business has to be profitable.

    How many great bike companies have come and gone when their leader for whatever reason are not driving the company? During my generation, many. Kind of depressing.


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    The dw link is nice but with the advent of single chainring drivetrains, not needed. Turner is gone. Mountain biking today is about marketing. Turner I don't think ever was that.

    Turner to me was about American designed and American MADE. That spirit lives on in places like Guerrilla gravity. Long live Turner.
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  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuddleDuck View Post

    It backs up what Chris Cocalis (Pivot) said earlier this year in a podcast re: BB tolerances being key, and that from a pure performance point of view, press fit is better. The closer to perfect that alignment is, the better the longevity, the less friction there will be, and any press fit won't creak. In this case, perfect means (1) specifying reasonable tolerances - which is part of the design, and (2) manufacturing to tolerances.
    This is correct, however only true if manufactured to the similar tolerance level as threaded BB's. The problem is press fit allowed for frame tolerances to go down but still work, and that's where all the issues are. They could build to lower tolerances and save money, but had they built to the same tolerance levels it would have been a non-issue. Going back to threaded BB's is the only way to force all of them back to high tolerance levels.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by austin_bike View Post
    As a person who ran marketing for a company that was going under and trying to sell itself off, I can tell you that everything goes to shit, the bills stop getting paid, but the website is sacrosanct, nothing can happen to that.

    The website is the first stop for any prospective buyer and any indication that the company is on the ropes totally screws up the bargaining position. If things were going well, they'd be addressing the website. And if there were functional issues with the site (which I doubt based on the errors showing up) you'd be all over social media and forums like this explaining what is going on.

    Dave was down the street at a friend's house a couple years ago, I'll try to ping my friend and see if he has any info.
    I spoke to the buyer at Cambria and he said Turner sold them the last of their inventory and that Dave told him he's looking for someone to buy the company. Dave hopes to still design frames once a buyer is found.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuddleDuck View Post
    Hi Bondseye,

    Thanks for your comment re: Turner being for sale

    It backs up what Chris Cocalis (Pivot) said earlier this year in a podcast re: BB tolerances being key, and that from a pure performance point of view, press fit is better. The closer to perfect that alignment is, the better the longevity, the less friction there will be, and any press fit won't creak. In this case, perfect means (1) specifying reasonable tolerances - which is part of the design, and (2) manufacturing to tolerances.

    ...

    Regarding your comment that Turner isn't a manufacturer. Turner is/was a great bike company. It's great designs were manufactured well, then supported with great customer service. For a Turner Mark II to be successful it'll need more than good designs. I can't imagine someone with Dave's integrity selling the brand to anyone who wouldn't commit to high standards of manufacturing and support.

    Let's hope that the planets align!
    +1 thank you for the info Bondseye.

    Pressfit BB's may be better from a pure performance perspective (or on paper/computer generated design) but they remain crap in the real word IMO.

    Creaking just cannot be chased/cured/exorcised out of some frame designs and bearing failures occur far more frequently than with threaded BB's in my experience.

    Dave is a great guy, ran a top notch bike company and was never one to hold back on voicing an opinion (popular or not).

    I wish him the best of luck in finding a buyer.
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  67. #67
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    Heaven forbid, please don't think that I'm defending the negligent design and manufacturing and/or QA practices of some (most?) brands re: Press Fit BB's

    Given that is the Turner forum, and thus it's likely to be frequented by discerning riders, I thought that I'd share the genuine shock/amazement/interest that I had from listening to Chris Cocalis, then Hambine re: press fit, and even threaded.

    Highlights from Chris (as I recall them)
    • originally, Shimano (and perhaps other brands) didn't specify design tolerances for their press fit BB's
    • thus it was left to frame designers to specify tolerances
    • from there the frame manufacturer in Asai had to be held accountable for producing frames to the design tolerances


    Adding in what I've learned from Hambini, there's a LOT than can go wrong in this chain.

    Regarding the tolerances that exist, there are at least 4
    1. the size of the bore that the bearing/cup presses in to
    2. the roundness of the bore that the bearing/cup presses in to
    3. re the two bores relative to each other, the extent to which they are parallel (is one toe-in relative to the other, is one toe in and the other toe out, are both toe-in or toe out?)
    4. re the two bores relative to each other, the extent to which they are the same height (if you imaging doing the toe-in & toe-out scenarios with your feet, for this tolerance lift up one of your feet)


    3 & 4 happen because frames are often made in 2 halves.

    1. If the bore is undersized, it can creak
    2. if the bore isn't round, it can effect durability
    3. If the bores aren't toe-d correctly, the cranks fixed shaft continually forces the bearings to try and be parallel, hence creaking can result, and durability will likely be an issue
    4. If the bores aren't at the same height the cranks fixed shaft will continually place unnatural forces on each bearing, hence creaking can result, and durability will be an issue.



    Re threaded BB's, issues with tolerances still exist, but the system is more tolerant.

    Please forgive this slight thread derail, but I've never seen this info on MTBR...AND...it's another reason why Turner bikes are so good, and Turner bikes had few issues with press fit BB's. Dave & team designs them well THEN ensure that they are built to spec. Building to spec is non-trivial and costs money. An appropriate manufacturer must be found, then held to account.



    Regarding "marketing", per Vespasianus's comments (among others): It's highly ironic that the types of marketing that will succeed in the future (in this post-truth world), is the authentic marketing, the non-marketing marketing that Dave naturally did, because it was values based, and he's a man of values. The great products and great service spoke for themselves - riders loved the bikes, this Turner forum the best on MTBR, reviewers LOVED the bikes.

    Compare SRAM with its 28.99 BS and multi-year issues with e.g. Guide brakes seizing, and Dave's way of doing things. Hands down, Dave wins. It'll be interesting to see how SRAM fares now that Shimano's 12 speed products are almost universally regarded as better performers, especially at SLX & XT levels.

    Also ironically, I think that Dave's authenticity in not producing bikes with geometry that he doesn't believe in hasn't helped in. He didn't blindly follow the extremes of trends as they emerged e.g.: short rear ends / long front centres / low BBs / slack HAs / extremely steep seat angles


    Time for a Christmas morning ride here in Australia, Happy Trails

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    Iíll stick with threaded BBs. That is all.


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  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuddleDuck View Post
    Regarding "marketing", per Vespasianus's comments (among others): It's highly ironic that the types of marketing that will succeed in the future (in this post-truth world), is the authentic marketing, the non-marketing marketing that Dave naturally did, because it was values based, and he's a man of values. The great products and great service spoke for themselves - riders loved the bikes, this Turner forum the best on MTBR, reviewers LOVED the bikes.

    Compare SRAM with its 28.99 BS and multi-year issues with e.g. Guide brakes seizing, and Dave's way of doing things. Hands down, Dave wins. It'll be interesting to see how SRAM fares now that Shimano's 12 speed products are almost universally regarded as better performers, especially at SLX & XT levels.

    Also ironically, I think that Dave's authenticity in not producing bikes with geometry that he doesn't believe in hasn't helped in. He didn't blindly follow the extremes of trends as they emerged e.g.: short rear ends / long front centres / low BBs / slack HAs / extremely steep seat angles

    Time for a Christmas morning ride here in Australia, Happy Trails
    Merry Christmas! The problem with the Turner approach is while people loved the idea and thought, nobody bought them!

    In some ways, I think of Pivot bikes. The first Pivots were the type of bike Chris Cocalis wanted to ride. They sucked. He changed his thinking and started making bikes people wanted. The rest is history.
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  70. #70
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    Never had a creaky PF BB with Pivot bikes in 4 season riding including having my bike on a rack in crap weather multiple times since the inception of Pivot bikes.

    That is all..........


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  71. #71
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    What I am most confused about is, what is there left to buy? There apparently is no inventory left. There has been no new mountain bike design for years. Yes, there are some dedicated lovers of the bike still, but can that number keep the company afloat? It doesn't even seem like it's a going concern anymore.

    I am no business valuator but with no hard assets and next to no goodwill or other intangibles, I'm thinking there is not going to be a long line up of buyers. Or any line up for that matter. DT as a designer may have some value, but it seems to me that it is more likely that an existing company would simply retain his services, than buy his company that seems to me to be worth next to nothing.

    Nothing more than uneducated speculation on my part. Time will tell I suppose.
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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    What I am most confused about is, what is there left to buy? There apparently is no inventory left. There has been no new mountain bike design for years. Yes, there are some dedicated lovers of the bike still, but can that number keep the company afloat? It doesn't even seem like it's a going concern anymore.

    I am no business valuator but with no hard assets and next to no goodwill or other intangibles, I'm thinking there is not going to be a long line up of buyers. Or any line up for that matter. DT as a designer may have some value, but it seems to me that it is more likely that an existing company would simply retain his services, than buy his company that seems to me to be worth next to nothing.

    Nothing more than uneducated speculation on my part. Time will tell I suppose.
    There's heaps of ways to "skin the cat" re: valuation.

    Here's one. Even if one accepted your premise that there is almost no value in the brand now, a deal could be structured so that there was a low nominal, base value placed on the company, based on a certain amount of future sales...but that if future sales were higher than expected (or more profitable on a gross margin basis), then the base price of the company could be increased, and DT would receive more in the future.

  73. #73
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    Ditch the carbon frames and team up with Ventana to manufacturer aluminum DW frames.

    In reality, there probably isn't much of a market for aluminum, but I'm personally not all that interested in carbon.

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    If it is true Turner is for sale what went wrong? A few years ago Dave decided the only way to remain competitive in the bike market was to go carbon. As an innovator he was one of the first to use rear suspension, 29 and 27.5 wheels but introducing carbon bikes was slower than expected.
    To go carbon is expensive for so many reasons. Moving production from USA alloy to Far East carbon expensive. But in theory those two factors should of paid off in the end. It seems it didnít.
    Quality control was further away. Broken RFXís appeared on this forum. Even customer service was questioned (remember the argument from someone I think was in Israel?).
    Dave is a shrewd businessman and read how the market was changing and the innovations that worked but I believe carbon frames were too much and too late.
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  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHouseMan View Post
    Ditch the carbon frames and team up with Ventana to manufacturer aluminum DW frames.

    In reality, there probably isn't much of a market for aluminum, but I'm personally not all that interested in carbon.
    I personally prefer and can afford carbon but alloy is pretty darn good. I personally feel that the perceived need for carbon has hurt the industry. At the end of day I ďneedĒ carbon for handlebars for wrist pain and 29er rear rim for longevity on a FS bike.


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    I think there is value in the Brand. After decades of quality designs, and stellar customer service, Turner has built a loyal following. If someone bought the company, and Dave still designed the frames I think it could work as a direct to consumer company like YT, Canyon, or Fezari.

    Anything Turner released would be among top on my list immediately.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHouseMan View Post
    In reality, there probably isn't much of a market for aluminum, but I'm personally not all that interested in carbon.
    The Ripmo AF is selling

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bondseye View Post
    The Ripmo AF is selling
    Yup, and selling well.
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  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHouseMan View Post
    Ditch the carbon frames and team up with Ventana to manufacturer aluminum DW frames.

    In reality, there probably isn't much of a market for aluminum, but I'm personally not all that interested in carbon.
    I believe there is a solid market for quality aluminum frames. If you look at companies like GG when they made aluminum frames, Banshee who is successful with offshore welded frames, ibis and santa cruz.

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    With regard to a turner aluminum frame revival... isnít frank the welder looking for work?

    My opinion is that Dave strengths arenít what drives the mtb market currently. I too had a handful of lengthy conversations with the man and he was a man who values longevity and durability. At the time of my last chat with him, he was driving a pickup truck with some 250k miles on it. He ran his bike business in a similar manner... you could maintain these frames such that they last double digit years.

    Look at the bike industry these days... whatís ďmodernĒ today is outdated in a year or two. Short chainstays are a perfect example. Three years ago, they couldnít be short enough. Now, despite steeper seat tubes moving the rider further forward, people are demanding that chainstay length grow with frame size.

    The media a partly to blame here but ultimately the fault is with the consumer. Riders care less about how a bike feels to them on their own trails than they do about a strangerís opinion who rides trails that theyíll never see.


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    Quote Originally Posted by incubus View Post
    Riders care less about how a bike feels to them on their own trails than they do about a strangerís opinion who rides trails that theyíll never see.


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    I think it is a fairly small percentage of people that can truly feel the difference.

    The most expensive and the most hyped bikes at Outerbike this year were my two least favorite rides. But plenty of people raved about them because they had read the advertising (labelled as a review) in a publication.

    I love my RFX and have a Burner 3.1 as a back up, and a Burner 3.0 as a back up for my back up.

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    I have been following this thread and wonder if Dave has a new design and needs some financial help to cover manufacturing cost?

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    Quote Originally Posted by skyerose123 View Post
    If it is true Turner is for sale what went wrong? A few years ago Dave decided the only way to remain competitive in the bike market was to go carbon. As an innovator he was one of the first to use rear suspension, 29 and 27.5 wheels but introducing carbon bikes was slower than expected.
    To go carbon is expensive for so many reasons. Moving production from USA alloy to Far East carbon expensive. But in theory those two factors should of paid off in the end. It seems it didnít.
    Quality control was further away. Broken RFXís appeared on this forum. Even customer service was questioned (remember the argument from someone I think was in Israel?).
    Dave is a shrewd businessman and read how the market was changing and the innovations that worked but I believe carbon frames were too much and too late.
    A little birdie in the industry once explained to me is that the biggest challenge when building carbon frames in Taiwan with the higher end manufacturers is getting on their production schedule for small-ish (compared to Santa Cruz and Ibis) production runs. I don't think Turner Bikes was able to generate the cash flow to make large enough orders that would ensure frames got built in a timely fashion in order to keep inventory coming in. And with SAPA/Zen going out of business, that pretty much cut out domestic aluminum manufacturing at the scale Turner function(ed). I, personally, would like to see someone take the business off DT's hands, come up with the capital to re-launch the brand, and DT onboard to update the designs.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2TurnersNotEnough View Post
    A little birdie in the industry once explained to me is that the biggest challenge when building carbon frames in Taiwan with the higher end manufacturers is getting on their production schedule for small-ish (compared to Santa Cruz and Ibis) production runs. I don't think Turner Bikes was able to generate the cash flow to make large enough orders that would ensure frames got built in a timely fashion in order to keep inventory coming in. And with SAPA/Zen going out of business, that pretty much cut out domestic aluminum manufacturing at the scale Turner function(ed). I, personally, would like to see someone take the business off DT's hands, come up with the capital to re-launch the brand, and DT onboard to update the designs.
    I have heard the same. Yet companies like Forbidden have not only broken in with super limited, small quantity production runs, but in the case of Forbidden, they did it with what is apparently one of the highest end carbon frame manufacturers around. Now, that frame sells for $3999 CDN, which is obviously not inexpensive. That said, if Owen Pemberton can do it, one would think that DT could as well, if he wanted to.
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  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2TurnersNotEnough View Post
    A little birdie in the industry once explained to me is that the biggest challenge when building carbon frames in Taiwan with the higher end manufacturers is getting on their production schedule for small-ish (compared to Santa Cruz and Ibis) production runs. I don't think Turner Bikes was able to generate the cash flow to make large enough orders that would ensure frames got built in a timely fashion in order to keep inventory coming in. And with SAPA/Zen going out of business, that pretty much cut out domestic aluminum manufacturing at the scale Turner function(ed). I, personally, would like to see someone take the business off DT's hands, come up with the capital to re-launch the brand, and DT onboard to update the designs.

    I thought most carbon frames are made in mainland China and not Taiwan?
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  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life View Post
    I believe there is a solid market for quality aluminum frames. If you look at companies like GG when they made aluminum frames, Banshee who is successful with offshore welded frames, ibis and santa cruz.
    and Foes - who still makes everything in house. Foes's capability to change with the market is part of their appeal. They can create new models very quickly.
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    Sad but anticipated situation,

    For the last 4 years I have been riding my Turner Czar 1.1 everywhere, uphill downhill smooth trails rocky trails, long full day trips and short more aggressive trips. For me it has been the ultimate bike, fits me and my riding style like a glove. It has been 4 years and it's like new, reminds me of my Toyota car. None of my previous bikes which were made by Trek, Santa Cruz (when it was a butik Co) came close to that. Typically after 1-2 years problems popped up and I started looking for my next bike.

    Now correct me if I am wrong: while this professional/purist approach would attract a small group of bike riders who appreciate the strive for perfectionism it wasn't a good prescription for generating a lot of sales.
    Now add to that Dave's rejection of any changes in bike design that are not perceived as truly important and it compounded the already difficult situation.

    As for me, I will be riding and enjoying my Czar in the foreseeable future with admiration to the Man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PuddleDuck View Post
    Regarding "marketing", per Vespasianus's comments (among others): It's highly ironic that the types of marketing that will succeed in the future (in this post-truth world), is the authentic marketing, the non-marketing marketing that Dave naturally did, because it was values based, and he's a man of values. The great products and great service spoke for themselves - riders loved the bikes, this Turner forum the best on MTBR, reviewers LOVED the bikes.

    Compare SRAM with its 28.99 BS and multi-year issues with e.g. Guide brakes seizing, and Dave's way of doing things. Hands down, Dave wins. It'll be interesting to see how SRAM fares now that Shimano's 12 speed products are almost universally regarded as better performers, especially at SLX & XT levels.

    Also ironically, I think that Dave's authenticity in not producing bikes with geometry that he doesn't believe in hasn't helped in. He didn't blindly follow the extremes of trends as they emerged e.g.: short rear ends / long front centres / low BBs / slack HAs / extremely steep seat angles


    Time for a Christmas morning ride here in Australia, Happy Trails
    There is certainly a burgeoning "authenticity" market which Turner could, with proper funding and management, do quite well in. But the authenticity market is heavily reliant on marketing - even moreso than more "mainstream" markets. In that sense, DT's "non-marketing marketing" ethos hurts him.

    For consumers who don't care about authenticity, factors such as price, quantity, etc., tend to predominate. So, for example, these consumers aren't going to care whether their TV comes from Walmart or the local electronics store, but they will care who is cheaper.

    The authenticity consumer, in addition to price, etc., does care about where it comes from and a whole lot more. Therefore, authenticity brands need to both deliver on the authenticity AND market it - to make up for what they lack in other departments. For a good model, check out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K05NEWHuHWg

    Successful boutique brands, therefore, can't have, say, a broken website - even though you could argue there's a certain curmudgeony or ludditey early 90's mtb era appeal in "not giving damn" about a website and just caring about the bikes.

    But, to succeed in this market, Turner would need to maintain things like polished websites, active social media presence, modernized branding which focuses on the authenticity, plus, it needs to deliver on the authenticity - which effectively means bringing manufacturing in-house or domestic. That's going to require an infusion of cash, an expansion of the business, and a delegation of control by DT to the business side of things. Gone are the days when about 3 guys can run a bike company. It's just not feasible. But, that doesn't mean that all hope is lost.

    Turner has excellent cache built up, precisely where you would want it for this type of business model. The challenge, as ever, is finding the right buyer.

  89. #89
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    New year, new website, new lineup! Itís going to be great!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2TurnersNotEnough View Post
    A little birdie in the industry once explained to me is that the biggest challenge when building carbon frames in Taiwan with the higher end manufacturers is getting on their production schedule for small-ish (compared to Santa Cruz and Ibis) production runs. I don't think Turner Bikes was able to generate the cash flow to make large enough orders that would ensure frames got built in a timely fashion in order to keep inventory coming in. And with SAPA/Zen going out of business, that pretty much cut out domestic aluminum manufacturing at the scale Turner function(ed). I, personally, would like to see someone take the business off DT's hands, come up with the capital to re-launch the brand, and DT onboard to update the designs.
    Knight Composites to the rescue!

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by freebiker View Post
    New year, new website, new lineup! Itís going to be great!!!!
    If only!


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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Knight Composites to the rescue!
    interesting, Turner has offered Knight wheels as options, and I recall seeing them on pics of DT/CT's bikes.

    Do you know something specific? Wink if the answer is yes, but you can't answer directly...like this

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuddleDuck View Post
    interesting, Turner has offered Knight wheels as options, and I recall seeing them on pics of DT/CT's bikes.

    Do you know something specific? Wink if the answer is yes, but you can't answer directly...like this
    No little birdies here, just a share on the Turner Facebook page. But that's enough to start a conspiracy theory in this day and age.

    But would make sense. A relatively well-established purveyor of carbon that could handle that end of the business leaving DT to do what he does best.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    No little birdies here, just a share on the Turner Facebook page. But that's enough to start a conspiracy theory in this day and age.

    But would make sense. A relatively well-established purveyor of carbon that could handle that end of the business leaving DT to do what he does best.
    Yeah, I noticed the post from Knight coming directly from the Turner facebook page and thought the same thing.
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    I'm just glad this thread made it through 59 posts before degenerating into an argument of threaded vs. PF BBs!

    My years on Turner Bikes were astounding, for so many reasons. Lifetime memories kind of shit. Big thank you to DT, and wishing him the best, whatever that turns out to be.
    Whining is not a strategy.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo View Post
    I'm just glad this thread made it through 59 posts before degenerating into an argument of threaded vs. PF BBs!
    In honour of the glory days of this forum..
    ...ould now be a good time to start bashing Ellsworth?



    vs


    I hear you re: saying thanks, if it comes to it, maybe you should start a dedicated tribute thread. I'd share my 13.5 years of love.

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    [QUOTE= I hear you re: saying thanks, if it comes to it, maybe you should start a dedicated tribute thread. I'd share my 13.5 years of love.[/QUOTE]

    If it comes to that it would prove that Dave is a man of utmost integrity !

    I truly wish that Dave's talent is carried over.

  98. #98
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    On one of the Turner riders Facebook pages, people have mentioned the actual Turner office space is gone and replaced by another company. Turner is gone completely.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

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    The Turner website seems to be fixed and updated with all sales pointing to Cambria.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xler8 View Post
    The Turner website seems to be fixed and updated with all sales pointing to Cambria.
    Not all. The Ti frames seems to still be a direct sale from them still.

    Also, Turner has been out of the space for a while now.

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    On one of the Turner riders Facebook pages, people have mentioned the actual Turner office space is gone and replaced by another company. Turner is gone completely.
    Turner is an active company, it is just that one of key employees was on holiday and it was hectic in the office. I ordered some some paraphernalia weeks ago with no problem

    https://businessfilings.sos.ca.gov/f...qrynumber=NULL

  102. #102
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    I can appreciate the fierce loyalty displayed by some of you. Itís incredible to me that this company is where it is, with countless red flags and bells and whistles sounding loudly, yet there is still hope. But like I said, that is really admirable and speaks volumes to this companyís history.

    For those of you who have moved on to a different brand, knowing how discriminating you are, I would be very interested to know if there are any brands out there right now that you are happy with. A different thread for sure but coming from you guys, I think your advice would be extremely credible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    I can appreciate the fierce loyalty displayed by some of you. Itís incredible to me that this company is where it is, with countless red flags and bells and whistles sounding loudly, yet there is still hope. But like I said, that is really admirable and speaks volumes to this companyís history.

    For those of you who have moved on to a different brand, knowing how discriminating you are, I would be very interested to know if there are any brands out there right now that you are happy with. A different thread for sure but coming from you guys, I think your advice would be extremely credible.
    Our family went to Ibis Ripley V4, Pivot 429 Trail, Scott Spark RC900 World Cup, and Evil Offering.

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    I can appreciate the fierce loyalty displayed by some of you. Itís incredible to me that this company is where it is, with countless red flags and bells and whistles sounding loudly, yet there is still hope. But like I said, that is really admirable and speaks volumes to this companyís history.

    For those of you who have moved on to a different brand, knowing how discriminating you are, I would be very interested to know if there are any brands out there right now that you are happy with. A different thread for sure but coming from you guys, I think your advice would be extremely credible.
    V2 Ripley is my XC-ish, long backcountry, high country type rig. Picked up an Evil Offering which I really like but still ride my RFX as well. Offering ticks most of the boxes for me. Modern geometry and super fun and playful.

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    Got a Ripley and will ride my 5-Spot till it dies.
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  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marsukurac View Post
    Turner is an active company, it is just that one of key employees was on holiday and it was hectic in the office. I ordered some some paraphernalia weeks ago with no problem

    https://businessfilings.sos.ca.gov/f...qrynumber=NULL
    This is what was written:

    "I drove by Turner's old shop on Monday (I live 30 minutes from it). It's gone and there's another business there now. I guess that pretty much confirms he's out of business. Somewhere I read that Cambria Bikes had purchased his inventory and so I called them. They purchased all of his remaining frames but not his small parts inventory. They said to email Dave for small parts. From an old email of mine, all I can find is [email protected]. He had a good run in a tough business. Hopefully someone buys the brand and he gets a little payout to complete his 25 year venture into the bike building world".


    Someone asked what company was there and the answer was:

    "California Safety Agency"
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post

    For those of you who have moved on to a different brand, knowing how discriminating you are, I would be very interested to know if there are any brands out there right now that you are happy with. A different thread for sure but coming from you guys, I think your advice would be extremely credible.
    You've got all those Konas in your signature, so you're on the right track. The Process 153 29 is the best and most fun bike I've ever ridden, hands down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VMaxx View Post
    DW-Link bikes have a very small sweet spot, setting them up properly takes some effort, but you will be rewarded with an amazing ride. The RFX in particular is happiest with a sag a little more than 30%, around 32-33%. Rebound should also be kept light, unless youíre riding high-speed jump trails. The Monarch plus may not be the best shock on the planet, but itís not that bad, and you should be able to dial in a good ride with it, no reason why you shouldnít. I donít believe that your solution should be to automatically go and spend $4-500+ on a new shock. Volume reducers are also key. Unless youíre very light, you will need them. The suspension curve on most DW bikes is very linear, so youíll need said spacers to dial in the support and bottom-out youíre looking for. Donít forget that you will need to adjust air pressure as you add/remove them. As an example, I weigh around 170lbs and run 3 spacers at around 197 psi. I also donít run too much pre-load in my fork, as DW likes to be over-driven a little by the fork. The terrain I ride is mostly natural tech with a lot of jumps and drops. The bike came to me with all 6 tokens installed, and rode like shit (should have looked before my first ride, but I was too stoked).
    Thanks for the tips! Sounds like we ride similar terrain. I have three spacers in the shock (which is how the shock was tuned from Turner) and have tried different air pressures. You're right, the best performance for me has been around 33-35% sag. Feels slightly less like a block of wood, but not great. Sometimes you do hit a bump and it feels right, but mostly it's just harsh. Not sure exactly what you mean about pre-load in your fork... I'll try running that a little softer. I think I'm going to find a shop that specializes in suspension tunes to help me out. Might be worth it.

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by The R View Post
    Thanks for the tips! Sounds like we ride similar terrain. I have three spacers in the shock (which is how the shock was tuned from Turner) and have tried different air pressures. You're right, the best performance for me has been around 33-35% sag. Feels slightly less like a block of wood, but not great. Sometimes you do hit a bump and it feels right, but mostly it's just harsh. Not sure exactly what you mean about pre-load in your fork... I'll try running that a little softer. I think I'm going to find a shop that specializes in suspension tunes to help me out. Might be worth it.
    DW links don't have a sweet spot and that is their problem. They will pedal the same with 5% sag as they will with 50% sag. You can't tell by pedaling. For most all shocks, you want to run a air pressure of 20 PSI less than riding weight with minimal rebound and compression settings. Most aftermarket shocks have higher rebound and compression settings.
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  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    DW links don't have a sweet spot and that is their problem. They will pedal the same with 5% sag as they will with 50% sag. You can't tell by pedaling. For most all shocks, you want to run a air pressure of 20 PSI less than riding weight with minimal rebound and compression settings. Most aftermarket shocks have higher rebound and compression settings.
    I think you have it a little backwards Holmes. DW bikes most certainly have a sweet spot in terms of descending, and on the RFX the Base setting on the Monarch should be around 20 MORE than riding weight.

  111. #111
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    When my need for a new Czar caught DT in the midst of a change in suppliers (IIRC), my LBS and Trek stepped up, and I've been happy ever since, and never looked back.

    Current stable is a new Top Fuel and Fuel EX (as well as a Slash that is for sale -- I just don't do that bike justice). Stoked on both!

    Of interest is that my old Czar is still going strong under a local buddy. You just can't kill a Turner!
    Whining is not a strategy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VMaxx View Post
    I think you have it a little backwards Holmes. DW bikes most certainly have a sweet spot in terms of descending, and on the RFX the Base setting on the Monarch should be around 20 MORE than riding weight.
    Definitely got it backwards. From the Turner site:

    "Proper sag on the RFX is about 17-20mm or 30-35% of the stroke of the shock. The amount of sag effects BB height and handling with no loss of dw-link performance. Try plus or minus 2m of sag to custom tune your Turner Ride.

    "The Stock shock on the RFX is the RockShock Monarch Plus DebonAir. With this shock in the stock settings we have found that ~20-30 psi OVER your riding weight* is a good start to finding your proper riding shock pressure."

    That much advice I've been following, with my preference being toward a little less pressure -- the 35% range, or about 20 PSI over my riding weight. In regard to rebound, I keep playing with that, but I'm finding the faster rebound preferable.

  113. #113
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    As far as suspension bikes, I replaced my '11 Turner Sultan with a '17 Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol. Loved the Trail Pistol so much that the following year I replaced it with a GG Smash.

    As far as FS bikes go, I expect it'll be several years (if not many) before I find adequate reason to replace the Smash.
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  114. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    and Foes
    .

    And Nicolai, Knolly, Pole, etc etc.

    There's certainly still a good market for quality alloy frames [even if they aren't made in the US] and IMO it was a shame Turner embarked down the small-volume carbon route rather than churning out a couple of 29ers in similar style to the v3.1 Burner frame. My Knolly Endorphin sometimes reminds me of my old horst link 5-spot in that it feels like the sweet-spot between fun and fast, a true all-rounder. A 130mm travel 29" wheeled alloy frame with the big HT for the adjustable headset like the v3.1 could have been a lot of fun in a similar spirit too.

    I kinda feel like it would be a waste of time trying to reinvent the brand now, especially if DT isn't at the helm. There's a heck of a lot of people out there riding now who will never have even hear the name...

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    Quote Originally Posted by The R View Post
    Definitely got it backwards. From the Turner site:

    "Proper sag on the RFX is about 17-20mm or 30-35% of the stroke of the shock. The amount of sag effects BB height and handling with no loss of dw-link performance. Try plus or minus 2m of sag to custom tune your Turner Ride.

    "The Stock shock on the RFX is the RockShock Monarch Plus DebonAir. With this shock in the stock settings we have found that ~20-30 psi OVER your riding weight* is a good start to finding your proper riding shock pressure."

    That much advice I've been following, with my preference being toward a little less pressure -- the 35% range, or about 20 PSI over my riding weight. In regard to rebound, I keep playing with that, but I'm finding the faster rebound preferable.
    Exactly! Iím also running around 22-23 PSI over my riding weight and settling around 35% sag. The beauty of DW is you can run a lot of sag and still have an efficient ride. I also took a couple of drops today in 6ft range and the rubber ring was almost falling off of the shock body, perfect setup for rough terrain. The only time I slow the rebound down is high-speed flow trails and hitting lipped jumps at speed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    As far as suspension bikes, I replaced my '11 Turner Sultan with a '17 Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol. Loved the Trail Pistol so much that the following year I replaced it with a GG Smash.

    As far as FS bikes go, I expect it'll be several years (if not many) before I find adequate reason to replace the Smash.
    =sParty
    A carbon Smash is on my short list. Coming from a Burner and Flux (27.5).

    Is the Smash a good all-arounder?

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    ...rather than churning out a couple of 29ers in similar style to the v3.1 Burner frame...
    A handful of sultans using the tri-lobal tubing used on the burner v3.1 do indeed exist. There was one for sale on PB recently.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Chasintrane View Post
    A carbon Smash is on my short list. Coming from a Burner and Flux (27.5).

    Is the Smash a good all-arounder?
    It is. For me it's made riding more fun than ever. Understatement. I ride a lot. But perhaps I should mention mine is one of GG's last aluminum frames -- I took possession in August '18. Less than six months later, GG switched to Revved carbon frames. You can't get an aluminum GG (main)frame anymore.

    Although I wouldn't hesitate to own one of GG's Revved carbon frames, personally I prefer metal bike frames*. My Sultan was aluminum and my Smash is, too -- somehow riding my Smash feels like I'm respecting tradition or honoring legacy, something like that. At the same time, it has up to the minute geometry and all the confidence inspiring capabilities that come with it. As a plus, GG's rock star team provides the best support I've encountered -- they answer the phone, they answer emails, they stand behind their products and they help their customers out.
    =sParty

    *Or at least I think I do.
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  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by VMaxx View Post
    Exactly! Iím also running around 22-23 PSI over my riding weight and settling around 35% sag. The beauty of DW is you can run a lot of sag and still have an efficient ride. I also took a couple of drops today in 6ft range and the rubber ring was almost falling off of the shock body, perfect setup for rough terrain. The only time I slow the rebound down is high-speed flow trails and hitting lipped jumps at speed.
    Yeah, that is what I was implying with the statement that the dw link does not necessarily have a sweet spot. Of course, if you are running 50-60% sag, the bike will still pedal well but once you hit something hard, may bottom and feel like crap. Or it may not if that is how you ride.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by incubus View Post
    A handful of sultans using the tri-lobal tubing used on the burner v3.1 do indeed exist. There was one for sale on PB recently.
    Interesting. Were they same geo etc as the old one or had they been updated? Wonder why only a few were produced.

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    Iím surprised there are no reports in the cycling press. Even this site, which has a feature on the posts in the forums hasnít picked up on this and tried to get information. After all Turner was well respected in the bike community, so such a demise would be reported on.
    Maybe Turner hasnít folded?
    Skye

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    Quote Originally Posted by skyerose123 View Post
    Iím surprised there are no reports in the cycling press. Even this site, which has a feature on the posts in the forums hasnít picked up on this and tried to get information. After all Turner was well respected in the bike community, so such a demise would be reported on.
    Maybe Turner hasnít folded?
    There's been no official announcement of closure - or much of anything. Also, while in some respects (such as shutting down the shop, no active phone no., etc.) Turner is acting like a closed business, in other respects (such has re-activating its website, maintaining its social media pages, etc.), it is not. The safest bet is that Turner's future is in limbo and as such, it's probably the case that no official channels in the bike community want to touch the issue until they have official confirmation. It's delicate thing as well to approach a guy like DT and probe about it. Best to be patient and resigned to whatever happens.

  123. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenmtb View Post
    it's probably the case that no official channels in the bike community want to touch the issue until they have official confirmation. It's delicate thing as well to approach a guy like DT and probe about it.
    I'm with you on this. The bike world is pretty small, and journo's would know what's happening via word-of-mouth at the least (the Cambria thing is like ringing the bell in thet town square), and out of respect for DT aren't publishing anything yet.

  124. #124
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    Turnerís new lineup at Sedona mtb festival? Hope so!!!!

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    so is it safe to order bushing kits and deraileur hangars from Turner's site then? Where can we order from now if not? Cambria?

  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Couloirman View Post
    so is it safe to order bushing kits and deraileur hangars from Turner's site then? Where can we order from now if not? Cambria?
    If it works then do it. Only the frames were on Cambria's site.

  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Couloirman View Post
    so is it safe to order bushing kits and deraileur hangars from Turner's site then? Where can we order from now if not? Cambria?
    I have a 2009 or later (Sultan, ???) full bushing kit and probably a few derailleur hangars sitting at home on the shelf. PM me if you are interested.
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  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyerose123 View Post
    Iím surprised there are no reports in the cycling press. Even this site, which has a feature on the posts in the forums hasnít picked up on this and tried to get information. After all Turner was well respected in the bike community, so such a demise would be reported on.
    Maybe Turner hasnít folded?
    Well, first of all saying MTBR and ďcycling pressĒ in the same sentence is nonsense. They have no real journalists or insights into the industry.

    And furthermore, a real site like Vital or Pinkbike would have to post a story for MTBR to copy and paste, as thatís where they get their press releases.

    I donít have a dog in this fight, the Turners I have ridden over the years have all felt great, and the conversations I have had with Dave have always been pleasant. I wish him all the best.
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  129. #129
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    Not looking good...


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    Is Turner relocating to Hurricane Utah? Grafton and goose are Fine testing grounds for the New 29RFX.

  131. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by edubfromktown View Post
    I have a 2009 or later (Sultan, ???) full bushing kit and probably a few derailleur hangars sitting at home on the shelf. PM me if you are interested.
    Update: the kit is sold.


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  132. #132
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    I just ordered a few supplies this morning.
    Was having issues due to me not being very sharp......
    Sent Turner a message I was having issues but then decided to look at it again......
    Then found out I am not the sharpest spoon in the drawer and got my order in.
    While I was doing that Dave and replied to my first message with in minutes to clarify what I was doing wrong.

    So Dave is around......read into it what you want.
    Cheers,
    Kevin

    DT response:

    Got it!

    Won't ship for a few days, I am slammed after the web store went down, then back up, I am buried under paper work.

    Have a good ride!

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  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgprimo View Post
    I just ordered a few supplies this morning.
    Was having issues due to me not being very sharp......
    Sent Turner a message I was having issues but then decided to look at it again......
    Then found out I am not the sharpest spoon in the drawer and got my order in.
    While I was doing that Dave and replied to my first message with in minutes to clarify what I was doing wrong.

    So Dave is around......read into it what you want.
    Cheers,
    Kevin

    DT response:

    Got it!

    Won't ship for a few days, I am slammed after the web store went down, then back up, I am buried under paper work.

    Have a good ride!

    David Turner
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    Turner Bikes
    Since 1994
    Nice to know that he is still there. Someone on the Turner Fans facebook page mentioned they are going to focus on making simpler bikes - which I think is a great idea.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  134. #134
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    Simpler bikes ehh? Maybe a boralyn softail? Or perhaps a urt recumbent?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Nice to know that he is still there. Someone on the Turner Fans facebook page mentioned they are going to focus on making simpler bikes - which I think is a great idea.
    Turner making simple bikes is great for who, exactly? Certainly not us. The guy who designed some of the sweetest bikes of the last 20yrs abandoning FS for simplicity (speculation here on what simple means) is not great. It's great for his competition maybe.

    And before anyone says how great the new line up is gonna be, unless you got proof, you ain't got nothin.

  136. #136
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    well the last two bikes released were gravel friendly hard tails. That fits into simple.

    The guy at Cambria said Dave wouldn't sell his spare parts inventory and intended on servicing current owners himself. He said Dave was "looking for someone to buy the company." This would explain the radio silence. Why would Turner announce anything if there's nothing to announce?

    That fits with what others have mentioned above. If Turner is trying to find a buyer keeping the current state of affairs quiet would be prudent.

  137. #137
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    Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.

  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by VMaxx View Post
    Turner making simple bikes is great for who, exactly? Certainly not us. The guy who designed some of the sweetest bikes of the last 20yrs abandoning FS for simplicity (speculation here on what simple means) is not great. It's great for his competition maybe.

    And before anyone says how great the new line up is gonna be, unless you got proof, you ain't got nothin.
    Maybe he is just burnt out of the whole MTB rat race and wants to do something different.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  139. #139
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    I wonder if the 2020 king Kahn will be offered in carbon?

  140. #140
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    until something real happens, this thread is totally useless, especially the freebiker cheerleader sillyosity
    breezy shade

  141. #141
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    Freebiker is the only reason why I visit the Turner forum. LMFAO!


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  142. #142
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    Yah -- Freebiker's got the good stuff!

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    you're right. i need to look at the humorous side of it, if i can only get by the ridiculousness of it all
    breezy shade

  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    until something real happens, this thread is totally useless, especially the freebiker cheerleader sillyosity
    So much fodder here.

    Something real has happened, a customer made contact with DT and got info about DT still selling parts. That may have popped up on FB. Either way, it's real.

    Also, life is pointless, for all we know we're part of the imagination of another form of life..kinda a like that Jim Carey movie where he lives in a huge dome artificial dome as some form of reality TV.

    Also also, the blocking function works really well for people that annoy you. I apply it to a certain individual.

    Also also also, this thread is demonstrably not "totally useless"; it's provided you with an outlet to prove to the world that you're correct. Q.E.D.

  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuddleDuck View Post
    So much fodder here.

    Something real has happened, a customer made contact with DT and got info about DT still selling parts. That may have popped up on FB. Either way, it's real.

    Also, life is pointless, for all we know we're part of the imagination of another form of life..kinda a like that Jim Carey movie where he lives in a huge dome artificial dome as some form of reality TV.

    Also also, the blocking function works really well for people that annoy you. I apply it to a certain individual.

    Also also also, this thread is demonstrably not "totally useless"; it's provided you with an outlet to prove to the world that you're correct. Q.E.D.
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  146. #146
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    DT can be long gone - literally - and this thread is going to keep on keepin on, on the basis that there is a hope that he will be reincarnated as a polar bear and roll out a reworked Sultan.
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  147. #147
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    charcoal metallic red carbon sultan for the win, only matter of days till itís a reality, holding my breath and waiting to exhale. Bro-bra!!!

  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by freebiker View Post
    I wonder if the 2020 king Kahn will be offered in carbon?
    If a carbon fat bike is what Dave is working on, then he should retire. Immediately.

  149. #149
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    What is sad is MTBR has an article on Pivot bikes, who are charging over 3K for a bike made in Burma. Burma. Let me say that again, Burma. I will ride my made in the USA bike until either I die or it does. I don't blame someone like Turner for leaving the MTB community. It appears to be filled with a bunch of wankers. Burma. LOL.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  150. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    What is sad is MTBR has an article on Pivot bikes, who are charging over 3K for a bike made in Burma. Burma. Let me say that again, Burma. I will ride my made in the USA bike until either I die or it does. I don't blame someone like Turner for leaving the MTB community. It appears to be filled with a bunch of wankers. Burma. LOL.
    Iím surprised that people pay that kind of money for a Pivot, given that Ibis exists. If Turner is truly done, Ibis and Revel are on my short list. Pivot isnít even a consideration.

  151. #151
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    Revel

    Quote Originally Posted by VMaxx View Post
    Iím surprised that people pay that kind of money for a Pivot, given that Ibis exists. If Turner is truly done, Ibis and Revel are on my short list. Pivot isnít even a consideration.
    For general knowledge: What is CBF suspension design?

    thanks

  152. #152
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    Has Turner Closed the doors?

    Quote Originally Posted by VMaxx View Post
    Iím surprised that people pay that kind of money for a Pivot, given that Ibis exists. If Turner is truly done, Ibis and Revel are on my short list. Pivot isnít even a consideration.
    Not sure why. Pivot makes top notch bikes. Like Turners, Iíve been vocal on the Pivot forum that I hate their use of PF BBs. That said, I donít question the quality of their bikes. Pivots last and have a solid reputation in the industry. PF BBs still suck (only in my opinion) though.


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  153. #153
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    Titanium is the new aluminum.
    Will titanium hardtails and cyclocross frames be what's considered simple?

  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2tdan View Post
    For general knowledge: What is CBF suspension design?

    thanks
    Canfield Balance Formula
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  155. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by VMaxx View Post
    Iím surprised that people pay that kind of money for a Pivot, given that Ibis exists. If Turner is truly done, Ibis and Revel are on my short list. Pivot isnít even a consideration.
    I ended up getting an IBIS Ripley (primarily for my son but I ride it when he is away at college) and it pained me. But the cost was reasonable.

    Pivot is doing very well because their manufacturing costs are probably pennies and they can put all of that into marketing. Sheep buy what sheep are convinced to buy.

    I have seen manufacturing in Taiwan and China and conditions are drastically different. Places like Burma, Bangladesh and India are orders of magnitude below China. Granted I am talking about pharmaceutical and equipment manufacturing but if anything it will be worse not better than simple bike manufacturing.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  156. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    What is sad is MTBR has an article on Pivot bikes, who are charging over 3K for a bike made in Burma. Burma. Let me say that again, Burma. I will ride my made in the USA bike until either I die or it does. I don't blame someone like Turner for leaving the MTB community. It appears to be filled with a bunch of wankers. Burma. LOL.
    I wonder if there are there riders in Burma calling other riders wankers for buying a Gorilla Gravity frame over a Pivot?

  157. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    I wonder if there are there riders in Burma calling other riders wankers for buying a Gorilla Gravity frame over a Pivot?
    They are to those people spending $4,400,000 Kyat on a bike frame made in Malawi.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by chowdapilot View Post
    Not sure why. Pivot makes top notch bikes. Like Turners, Iíve been vocal on the Pivot forum that I hate their use of PF BBs. That said, I donít question the quality of their bikes. Pivots last and have a solid reputation in the industry. PF BBs still suck (only in my opinion) though.


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    X2.

    Some of the best, most experienced riders I know, absolutely love their Pivots, which is the bike of choice for them. These guys live to ride, and wonít stand for second best. Not much else in life matters to them, apart from riding (and skiing).

    Wherever they are made, the frames of their Pivot bikes look to me to be of exceptional quality.
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  159. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    X2.

    Some of the best, most experienced riders I know, absolutely love their Pivots, which is the bike of choice for them. These guys live to ride, and wonít stand for second best. Not much else in life matters to them, apart from riding (and skiing).

    Wherever they are made, the frames of their Pivot bikes look to me to be of exceptional quality.
    IME the brand (I had two of them) is no better than a half-dozen other US-based Asian frame resellers. They all cost a mint and ride nicely, most offer great CS, and a couple still use PF BBs.

    I think Guerrilla Gravity has them all beat. YMMV.

  160. #160
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    I wonder if there are Burmese mtn dogs that hangout in the shop where pivots are made?

  161. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by freebiker View Post
    I wonder if there are Burmese mtn dogs that hangout in the shop where pivots are made?
    There are Burmese mountain dogs now?

  162. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    They are to those people spending $4,400,000 Kyat on a bike frame made in Malawi.

    Whats wrong with Malawi bikes, steel is real after all https://www.sakaramenta.com/buffalo-bicycle.html

    I am glad David Roy is moving away from plastic, any ETA for Ti Hardtail?

    I wonder if the ti hardtail is pressfit bb, like Litespeed Pinhoti, in that case I rather buy AL Santa Cruz Chameleon...

  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    There are Burmese mountain dogs now?
    Their actually burnese, I was kidding yo.

  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marsukurac View Post
    Whats wrong with Malawi bikes, steel is real after all https://www.sakaramenta.com/buffalo-bicycle.html

    I am glad David Roy is moving away from plastic, any ETA for Ti Hardtail?

    I wonder if the ti hardtail is pressfit bb, like Litespeed Pinhoti, in that case I rather buy AL Santa Cruz Chameleon...

    Are Malawi bikes 29+ compatible like the upcoming 2020 carbon rfx?

  165. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by freebiker View Post
    Their actually burnese, I was kidding yo.
    My bad.

  166. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by freebiker View Post
    Are Malawi bikes 29+ compatible like the upcoming 2020 carbon rfx?
    It's a pity, I had high hopes for you freebiker, as you'd managed two posts without this kind of thing. I thought you'd finally got bored of yourself. But no. Well, at least I can continue to admire your persistence. Well done, carry on.
    'I've got a bike, you can ride it if you like. It's got a basket, a bell that rings, and things to make it look good' - Syd B

  167. #167
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    Freerider is playing us all like a fiddle.
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  168. #168
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    Good things come to those that wait. Really good things. Carbon brawler 36ers for all!

  169. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    Freerider is playing us all like a fiddle.
    Freebiker is Dave Turner.....

    ???
    Conspiracy theories begin
    Silly bike things happening.

  170. #170
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    Has Turner Closed the doors?

    I believe in Freebiker.


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    Last edited by chowdapilot; 01-19-2020 at 03:31 PM.

  171. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by swan lee View Post
    It's a pity, I had high hopes for you freebiker, as you'd managed two posts without this kind of thing. I thought you'd finally got bored of yourself. But no. Well, at least I can continue to admire your persistence. Well done, carry on.
    He was walking that fine line between clever and troll, but lost cred and revealed himself as a troll when he started talking carbon fat bikes and 29+.

  172. #172
    high pivot witchcraft
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    The only thing I wonder about is how many times Freerider has pissed himself laughing at some of the comments about him here.
    2021 Norco Bigfoot VLT 1
    2020 Kona Unit

    2019 Forbidden Druid
    2018 Kona Honzo ST 30th BDay SE
    2015 Kona Paddy Wagon Fixed Gear

  173. #173
    Hisforever
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    In Freerider We Trust

    Ibis Ripmo -wifes
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    Yz 250x - no ebikes



  174. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by VMaxx View Post
    He was walking that fine line between clever and troll, but lost cred and revealed himself as a troll when he started talking carbon fat bikes and 29+.
    What about carbon fat ebikes? Would that be ok? certainly itís not Going to be as successful of a selling model as the upcoming 29er rfx. However, the e carbon fatty does have a following and Iím not talking about evil, whoís new carbon fatty will be titled, ďthe swallowingĒ, like the bird of true love, the swallow. Have a nice ride today.
    Last edited by freebiker; 01-20-2020 at 05:06 PM.

  175. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marsukurac View Post
    Whats wrong with Malawi bikes, steel is real after all https://www.sakaramenta.com/buffalo-bicycle.html
    The crazy thing is that is actually made in Burma! (:
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  176. #176
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
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    So, skimming through this thread tells me itís true. Did I skim something of importance telling me otherwise?

    Very sad if so.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  177. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    So, skimming through this thread tells me itís true. Did I skim something of importance telling me otherwise?

    Very sad if so.
    Yeah, various sources have said they talked to him, and he's still selling parts and whatever on the website, and they insist he's not closing, but the only bike that seems to be available is his Ti road bike. So it's all still as clear as mud. In the meantime, Pivot seems to be making Turners and putting their stickers on them, so there's that.

  178. #178
    Out spokin'
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    ...
    disciplesofdirt.org

    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  179. #179
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    DT just needs to sell a couple more cross bikes to attain funding for the new rfx 29er, dhr 29er and king kahn carbon molds!!! Itís going to be amazing!!!!

  180. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by freebiker View Post
    DT just needs to sell a couple more cross bikes to attain funding for the new rfx 29er, dhr 29er and king kahn carbon molds!!! Itís going to be amazing!!!!
    This is wonderful news!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  181. #181
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    So... what's the verdict? Is Turner still around? Sad news if not. I quite riding for the past year or so and come back to see this thread. I guess I better stock up on rebuild kits while they are showing on the website.
    Killing it with close inspection.

  182. #182
    roots, rocks, rhythm
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    So I ordered some small parts, via e-mail.
    Got them no problem and Dave was taking care of it.
    I never asked anything beyond what I ordered.
    Not sure what that says about the future but DT is around and I am sure we will find out eventually........
    97' Brodie Expresso
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  183. #183
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    Website is up and running and they have some activity on Instagram.

  184. #184
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    Cool, I want to order some socks. Turner has the nicest wool socks.

  185. #185
    she keep you buying rats
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    .

  186. #186
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    The doors have closed because the Lord DT anticipated the covid raptor. The doors will reopen and all will be well with the new lineup of superior turner bike product once the pandemic is finished. thank goodness for TURNERBIKES!!!!!

  187. #187
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    major loon
    breezy shade

  188. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    major loon
    Forsooth.
    disciplesofdirt.org

    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  189. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Forsooth.
    had to look that one up. well said w/ just one word. i tip my helmet to you, sir
    breezy shade

  190. #190
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    Has Turner Closed the doors?-img_1538.jpg

    I ride my 2012 5spot weekly. I would argue that it is still relevant, I sure as shit am still having fun on it.

  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitterbuffalos View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1538.jpg 
Views:	102 
Size:	479.8 KB 
ID:	1322505

    I ride my 2012 5spot weekly. I would argue that it is still relevant, I sure as shit am still having fun on it.
    Sourgrass Meadow, Alpine Trail, Oregon? When I had an Ď11 Turner Sultan (black like yours), I rode it there.

    While individual Turner bikes absolutely remain relevant, sadly the company doesnít. Meanwhile freebiker gets another laugh at all Turner devotees every time a post is added to this worthless thread.
    =sParty
    disciplesofdirt.org

    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  192. #192
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    I have 3 Turner bikes remaining in my garage that my family members use infrequently because they aren't into riding as I am. But I still love DT and will purchase more bikes from him if he can come out with new relevant designs.
    In the meantime I ride the closest thing to what I would call a 2020 Turner Sultan. My Banshee Titan in Black Ano. It literally looks identical in many ways to my Turner Burner V3.1 when side by side. But the Geo is far better for me. Not sure if DT is totally down with long reach /slack HT/Steep ST but after riding both side by side. I am.

  193. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitterbuffalos View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1538.jpg 
Views:	102 
Size:	479.8 KB 
ID:	1322505

    I ride my 2012 5spot weekly. I would argue that it is still relevant, I sure as shit am still having fun on it.
    I agree!

    Has Turner Closed the doors?-vlcsnap-2020-01-28-14h53m18s813.jpg
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  194. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by TORQUE-29er View Post
    Titanium is the new aluminum.
    Will titanium hardtails and cyclocross frames be what's considered simple?
    Turner Cyclosys II (2.0) is titanium.

    https://www.turnerbikes.com/bikes/cy...v2-0-titanium/

  195. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnradsem View Post
    Turner Cyclosys II (2.0) is titanium.

    https://www.turnerbikes.com/bikes/cy...v2-0-titanium/
    also unavailable
    breezy shade

  196. #196
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    The Cyclosys II is available, most sizes in stock, web site not updated. Email me for build options etc. [email protected] Freebiker was interested, but even the new longer/lower/slacker geometry was not long enough, low enough and slack enough.
    Enough said.

  197. #197
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    I made the jump to an ibis Ripley v4. Might be putting my czar back together....... I said it

  198. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    The Cyclosys II is available, most sizes in stock, web site not updated. Email me for build options etc. [email protected] Freebiker was interested, but even the new longer/lower/slacker geometry was not long enough, low enough and slack enough.
    Enough said.
    agree
    breezy shade

  199. #199
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    check out the Pinkbike podcast w/ Richard Cunningham. the picture of RC has what definitely look like Turners in the background. new picture? new Turners?

    whadya think
    breezy shade

  200. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    check out the Pinkbike podcast w/ Richard Cunningham. the picture of RC has what definitely look like Turners in the background. new picture? new Turners?

    whadya think
    This?

    Has Turner Closed the doors?-rcpic2colinmeagher.jpg
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

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