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Thread: good tires?

  1. #1
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    good tires?

    My 5-Spot is coming to me from 123bikes with Hutchison Scorpion tires, which sound very bad. I'm probably going to put some new tires on the bike before I even ride it, as I don't want bad tires to ruin my first impressions of the new ride.

    Do you have any recommendations for tires? I've looked at the tire reviews at mtbr but I'd like to narrow down my options with the help of fellow Turner riders. The tracks I ride in Korea are generally rough, often technical xc with lots of ups and downs and sometimes long rides up steep fire roads to get to them. They can be quite rooty and rocky, with mostly dry conditions except after the spring thaw and the summer rains.

    Cheers in advance,

    Duncan

  2. #2
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    The two tires Iíve run on my 5 Spot are the Continental Vertical Pro 2.3 and the Nokian NBX 2.3 FR (kevlar bead). I typically ride in the desert with a mixture of slick rock, hard pack, loose rocky sections, and occasional stretches of sand (very similar to Moab, UT and Sedona, AZ). I started off with the Vertical Proís, and while they are a good solid tire, they just didnít provide the versatility I needed for my particular terrain. I think that this is a result of their pin style knob and low surface area. So then came the NBXís with their blocky knobs and tread, and while Iíve only just put the first few dozen miles on them I think Iíve found my tire of choice, but only time will tell. I also want to try out the Kenda Blue Groove 2.5ís and the Geax Sturdy 2.4ís, which I understand are wider than most 2.5ís.

    I find that tire choice is so dependant on riding style and conditions. What works for me on southern Utah terrain doesnít necessarily work for me on northern Utah terrain. And what works for me doesnít always work for my buddy riding with me. Good luck and let us know what you end up with.

  3. #3
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Crash- I wonder if the Sturdy 2.4 would fit. I have the Sturdy 2.25 and it is very nearly as wide as my Weirwolf 2.5, and Motoraptor 2.4, etc, but very very tall. Any taller and you would start seeing clearance issues for rocks stuck in the tread. They must have the most incredible pinch flat protection with all that air in there though. I'll bring a selection of tires down with us in Feb and you can try some out.

    Duncan- can you get anything you want? There are a bazillion tires on the market. If you don't have access to certain ones, it would cut the list down. I would do a Nokian NBX 2.3", Intense System 4 2.25", Geax Sturdy 2.25", Maxxis Mobster 2.35" or 2.5", or a Kenda Nevegal or Blue Groove in 2.35" or 2.5" to start with. The Maxxis and Kendas are available in different durometers, so get a higher for the rear and the lower for the front. Look at tire weights and go for the single-ply, kevlar beaded, sub-900g models if you can. The Spot is a real climber and you don't want to pork out on DH rubber and slow yourself down too much.

    tscheezy
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Crash- I wonder if the Sturdy 2.4 would fit.
    Sorry, I got ahead of myself. I don't even think that they make a 2.4.

    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    I'll bring a selection of tires down with us in Feb and you can try some out.
    That would be slick seeing as how I was debating on whether to order the Blue Groove's or the Sturdy's or both for a little wider tire than the NBX's. If you've got the Sturdy's maybe I'll go ahead and get the Blue Grooves so we can compare both. Do you know if there are clearance issues with the Kenda's 2.5's?

    By the way, have you checked you PM's lately? I sent you a run down of the local trails with a few additional ones that I quite like.

  5. #5
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    Tires n' shtuff

    I have Nokian Cores and Duals in 2.3s which I am assuming use the same casing as the NBXs in 2.3 and only the tread is different (shorter knobs on the NBX). I should check Shiggy's site (so should you). The Nokian casing is probably a "true" 2.1 but the tall knobs on the Dual/Cores take it up to ~2.3ish, while the NBX is probably more 2.2 at most. The Sturdy 2.25 is far far taller (freakishly tall), and has a wider casing, but tread which protrudes less. Overall width on the Sturdy will be similar, but more of that will be air volume in the casing rather than knob height, and it is taller in any case. The Sturdy's roll very fast and I think would be an exceptional desert tire. Larry sells them.

    Apparently the Kenda 2.5 casing is only a tiny tiny bit bigger than the 2.35. The knob size between the two is significant though, I think, so I'd go for the bigger 2.5s. There would be no clearance issues in back, and I *think* they would clear 03 Z1 forks as well.

    Yeah, I got the PM. Thanks. I'll check in here periodically or email you when I get a firm feel for when we will touch down in your neck of the desert.

    tscheezy
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  6. #6
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    I'd agree that the NBX's are more like a 2.2. They are more narrow than my Vertical's even. A little disappointing, but how much this effects performance I'm not sure. Which is why I wanted to get somthing along the lines of a 2.4 or 2.5.

    By the time I remembered reading a post that mentioned Larry sold the Sturdy's, probably yours, my brakes had already shipped or I'd have had him add a pair. Sounds like it might be for the best anyway. Does the height of the Sturdy require it to be run on a wider rim?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrashTheDOG
    Does the height of the Sturdy require it to be run on a wider rim?
    I personally think people put too much emphasis on the idea of "support" for wide tires using wide rims. You can run a 2.0-2.5 tire on a 22-24mm wide rim (317, Aeroheat, etc) with no problems providing you use reasonable pressure (at lower pressures you'd pinch flat all the time anyway). Going from a 22 to a 27mm rim would have a totally negligible effect on tire profile (roundness, width and height). It would also have less effect on contact patch than varying the pressure by 4psi. The only reason to buy wider rims is for the extra material they offer, and thus extra strength. If you are constantly having to true your rims, get heavier (and thus also wider) ones. If not, then not. When you get up to 2.7 and 3.0" tires, a wider rim makes sense, but mostly because you are probably doing DH/FR with them. Also, a really well-hand-built set of light hoops will last longer than a set of crappy machine-built heavy hoops anyway.

    I have Rhyno Lites and F219s and I have not had to true my wheels in 2 years. Makes me think they are total overkill. I recently picked up a set of King ISO/Aeroheats and I will see if they are adequate. They sure seem like nice rims and a good compromise of strength/weight/width.

    tscheezy
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  8. #8
    FM
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    A few votes here for sturdies! They're a little weird in the mud, but a great tire overall. 3 good friends are running them as well as myself. And they come in UST!

    Seeing as how the 2.25 sturdy is really a 2.4, a 2.4 sturdy would actually be like a 2.6. Too big imho.

    On the big tire note; obviously the standard has gotten pretty sloppy with conti and geax on opposite ends of over/under-stating their true size. Meanwhile riders want bigger and bigger tires, but how many have tried a true 2.6? It doesn't work unless you're on a DH bike with single chainring or wide rear hub spacing, or you've swapped to an extra wide BB.

    My friend tried michellin 2.6's on his heckler with a triple crankset. Horrible problems. The tires side-lugs rubbed on the chain in his granny gear, and even in his middle chainring and bigger cogs. This is with a straight XT build kit. He was all smiles when he went back to 2.4's....
    (who knows though, how michellin fairs with their tire sizing standards...)

  9. #9
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Good point. My my chain just barely barely clears the knobs on my Nokians and Weirwolfs in the rear when in the granny/big cog. For that matter, the front derailleur almost hits the tire too. Just because the tire will fit through the frame does not mean your problems are over.

    tscheezy
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  10. #10
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    Hey guys, thanks very much for your detailed advice. Korean mtb shops have a pretty good range of tires so I'll see what they've got and narrow it down from there. In return, I've got bugger all technical advice to give you about biking (my brother is actually a bike mechanic - so he fixes my bike, I just ride it). But let me know if you ever need information about riding in Korea.

    Cheers, Duncan

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    My friend tried michellin 2.6's on his heckler with a triple crankset. Horrible problems. The tires side-lugs rubbed on the chain in his granny gear, and even in his middle chainring and bigger cogs.
    2.5 WTB Timberwolf (2.56 at widest point) fits just dandy in the rear of my RFX with triple chainring 113mm BB setup.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    I have Rhyno Lites and F219s and I have not had to true my wheels in 2 years. Makes me think they are total overkill. I recently picked up a set of King ISO/Aeroheats and I will see if they are adequate. They sure seem like nice rims and a good compromise of strength/weight/width.

    tscheezy
    Hey SeŮor Tscheezy, I'm really interested in how the Aeroheats hold up. Like you, I bought into the "wider rim for wider tires" theory, and like you, I've come to suspect that it's overkill - my RhynoLites are in great shape after 2 years, and I'm a bit heavier than you.

    I saw the Aeroheats, and did think that they were nice - light, but not rediculously so.
    I'll be interested in what you find. I realize that before I went to discs, I had been on some fairly light, fairly narrow WTB rims, and had never really had a major problem keeping them true.

    My current wheel experiment is with a light, wide rim. I found some Syncros Big Box rims that were seriously cheap on Ebay, and I'll build those up on some spare hubs. The rims are double eyeleted, about 1mm more narrow than the Rhyno, but weigh 445g (real weight on my scale). They are designed for rim brakes, but then again, so are the Rhynos. I'll see how they hold up.

    Of course, I already have a spare wheelset, so this will make 3.......
    I rationalize this as "collecting data".
    There, now I feel better.
    Last edited by Mackie; 01-14-2004 at 09:39 AM.

  13. #13
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    Mackie,

    I will take the Aeroheats on our winter road trip. I'll put 1,000+ desert miles on them and report back when I return in mid April. I feel your pain in the wheel oversupply area.

    tscheezy
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  14. #14
    cask conditioned
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    You won't be dissapointed by IRC Trailbears. Big, 720g's, grippy, wear very slowly, corner great. You can find them for $19 too. Put them on and you won't think about tires for a while.

  15. #15
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    I'm very impressed with the Kenda Nevegal 2.5K

    It fits fine front and rear on my Black/XCE setup, and weighs in at 840 grams while coming in pretty close to its 2.5" billing. The Stick-E rubber and big knobs are a formidable combination. I don't think the Blue Groove is designed for as loose conditions as the Nevegal, but it might be just the ticket for you. I really liked my Hutchy Alligator 2.25's so those Scorpions might be worth a try at some point, or maybe they really do just suck.

  16. #16
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    Kenda Blue Grooves & Nevegals

    My Velocities are the only hoops my 5 Spot has seen. After three month of trail riding with a few modest, 5' at the most, drops they've held up well and continue to be straight as an arrow.

    In regards to tires, I just got in from the LBS where one of the mechanics was wrenching on a Santa Cruz Bullit with a Marz Z150 sporting Kenda's Blue Grooves and Nevegals combo both in a 2.5. Man were those tires big! There were several scars on the arch of the Z150 where rocks had been caught between the tire. I think I'm going to stick with 2.3's.
    Last edited by CrashTheDOG; 01-16-2004 at 07:32 PM.

  17. #17
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    Once again guys, thanks for your tire advice. My bike has arrived in Korea and I get to see it, assemble it and ride it for the first time this Saturday.

    Unfortunately I can't buy Sturdys, which seemed like the best option, in Korea. In fact the range here is a bit crap really. I may have to order the Sturdys over the web. I'll stick my current Specialised Pro tires (also not really that great) on for the moment as at least that will remove one variable from my first impressions of the 5 Spot

    Also, the guys at the local shop told me I should be aiming for 2.2 - 2.35 tires, with anything over 2.35 being too much. Are they saying this because there is not enough tire clearance, my mavic X3.1 rims are not going to accommodate them, or just because 2.35+ is overkill?

    Cheers, Duncan

  18. #18
    No, that's not phonetic
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    "Also, the guys at the local shop told me I should be aiming for 2.2 - 2.35 tires, with anything over 2.35 being too much. Are they saying this because there is not enough tire clearance, my mavic X3.1 rims are not going to accommodate them, or just because 2.35+ is overkill?"

    None of the above. (Read <a href="http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=414">Kpicha's wheel upgrade question</a> on the tires/wheels board: good rim/tire info there.) The Spot can take a "typical" 2.7 (though without much mud or rock room left), the Mavic X3.1 can mount up pretty much any tire the frame will accept (see Kpicha's post), and whether or not it is overkill depends on the tire itself, not what "size" the manufacturer decided to label it. There are 2.0s which are bigger than some 2.3s. There are 1.9s which weigh more than some 2.4s. It is all pretty meaningless. You have to look at a specific tire to see its real size. I won't run anything under a "typical" 2.3 on my Spot, personally, even in mud because I don't want to pinch or run my tires rock hard (my mud tires are Nokian Core 2.3s).

    Go big, but light.

    tscheezy
    Last edited by tscheezy; 01-28-2004 at 01:46 AM.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

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