Fox Vanilla to Z1 FR qr 20-worth it?- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    mad aussie
    Reputation: Flying Wombat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    1,129

    Fox Vanilla to Z1 FR qr 20-worth it?

    I think I may just have upgraditis, but am considering a new fork for my spot. I currently have a vanilla 125, I would like to go to a through axle and 8" front rotor. My reasoning being that I am getting more into technical riding, jumping etc and I am looking for improved braking and steering. At 140# I dont think I will be breaking my fork/frame any time soon.
    I want to stay with a coil shock (I dont want to carry a shock pump, or have the fork lose air after scratching up the stanchions) so that rules out the SL or the Maverick (which I feel is too XC and expensive for my needs). My main concern would be the increased crown to axle height affecting the handling, and whether I could get the Z1 sprung softly enough for my weight.
    Has anyone else on this forum made a change from the Fox to Z1, and did you notice a difference in handling?

  2. #2
    FM
    FM is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: FM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    9,444
    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Wombat
    My main concern would be the increased crown to axle height affecting the handling, and whether I could get the Z1 sprung softly enough for my weight.
    I would go with a Z1 for exactly this reason! My friends 5-spot with Z1 feels PERFECT with a Z1. I rode it on twisty trails with jumps (back to back with my RFX, which also had a Z1 on it at the time) and it felt great.

    IMHO anything that slackens the head angle is a good thing for technical descents, high-speed, or any free-riding. The only areas where too slack of a head angle can hurt is while climbing, or on tight low-speed twisty trails. I can say those weren't a problem. As for climbing, with ETA you'll be VERY happy.

    Tuning: Z1's are VERY tunable with oil level and viscosity. A 2004 coil with no air pre-load should be perfect. If you don't bottom it on big hits, lower the oil height slightly when you change your oil after breaking the fork in.

    I have several friends who went from fox 125rls or talus's to Z1's and all are very happy.

    My only beef is the QR20. It's a poor design imho. I have broken a few parts on mine. Given that the Z1 will still be stiffer than your fox, and that you can run an 8" rotor without the QR20, you might consider passing on it. That will also save you the price of a new wheel.

    If you do go QR20, make sure you don't need to remove the front wheel transport your bike. I use a fork-up, and I think that opening/closing all the QR20 stuff 2x a ride was responsible for cracks appearing in my Qr20 flaps.

  3. #3
    mad aussie
    Reputation: Flying Wombat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    1,129

    I can convert my x-max to through hub

    Crossmax XL converts to a through hub with an adaptor (which came with the wheels), I usually transport the bike with the front wheel off.
    Thanks for the advice, sounds like the Z1 could be the way forward. Now I need to sell some stuff to pay for it...
    anyone know a roadie who would want a pair of Reynolds carbon deep V rims

  4. #4
    ... I guess you won't be
    Reputation: jokermtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,942
    the z1 [non qr20] is substantially beefier than the fox - you will actually notice the difference......

  5. #5
    eat my pantaloons
    Reputation: erol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    107
    I did it and I'll never go back. I love the Z1. It has been worry free. I run an 8" rotor with Hayes. However I am trying 8" Hopes and having a problem with the mounting. Anyway, I was 210lb when I put the Z1 on and I am now down to 185lb but I have no desire to go back just to save a couple of pounds.
    "Success consists of moving from failure to failure without losing heart." -Winston Churchill

  6. #6
    Daniel the Dog
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    6,759

    ETA makes the Spot climb much better.....

    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    I would go with a Z1 for exactly this reason! My friends 5-spot with Z1 feels PERFECT with a Z1. I rode it on twisty trails with jumps (back to back with my RFX, which also had a Z1 on it at the time) and it felt great.

    IMHO anything that slackens the head angle is a good thing for technical descents, high-speed, or any free-riding. The only areas where too slack of a head angle can hurt is while climbing, or on tight low-speed twisty trails. I can say those weren't a problem. As for climbing, with ETA you'll be VERY happy.

    Tuning: Z1's are VERY tunable with oil level and viscosity. A 2004 coil with no air pre-load should be perfect. If you don't bottom it on big hits, lower the oil height slightly when you change your oil after breaking the fork in.

    I have several friends who went from fox 125rls or talus's to Z1's and all are very happy.

    My only beef is the QR20. It's a poor design imho. I have broken a few parts on mine. Given that the Z1 will still be stiffer than your fox, and that you can run an 8" rotor without the QR20, you might consider passing on it. That will also save you the price of a new wheel.

    If you do go QR20, make sure you don't need to remove the front wheel transport your bike. I use a fork-up, and I think that opening/closing all the QR20 stuff 2x a ride was responsible for cracks appearing in my Qr20 flaps.
    The two forks ride very similar, but the Marzocchi pushes ahead with the ETA. A great addition to a Spot if you climb much. I love mine.

    Jaybo

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Soupboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,040

    Run/ran...

    a Z1QR20, Nilla RLC and TALAS RL on my RFX. Sold the Z1 and I regret it...somewhat. It was a pig, but it was burly - never a doubt that it could handle more than my stomach was willing to throw it into. Its just sooo tall relative to the Fox line...less of an issue vs. Mantiou (130mm Minutes or Sherms).

    Now that mine is gone I won't be buying another right now. The next project will be "PUSH"ing my TALAS to resolve my primary gripe of brake dive. The other issue I have with all Fox SC forks is they aren't designed to work with 8" rotors. Many do it, but Fox does a good enough job to scare you away from trying that I choose to default to the smaller 7" rotor.

    At 140# you don't need a Z1 - the Nilla should be more than up to the task unless you're a motherhucker. Then again, if you're a motherhucker, then a 5S isn't really your frame either. Spend the $600 on a bike vacation!

    If you really want the Z1 you may want to consider the non-QR20 version. Highly tuneable with oil viscosity and spring rates...so tuning to your weight shouldn't be an issue. I suggest you contact Ventanarama - great resource for Zoke tuning and sales. The Fork-Up does add an extra step loading/unloading. I never broke any of the Zoke hardware - but it was an extra 30 seconds of fussing every time you needed to deal with the front wheel. Performance-wise the extra 1"+ of A-C height will affect handling/climbing but you'll get used to anything after awhile and it comes down to personal preferences regardless.

    Have fun,

    Sean
    Last edited by Soupboy; 06-29-2004 at 06:42 AM.
    Professional Amateur

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    3,984
    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Wombat
    I think I may just have upgraditis, but am considering a new fork for my spot. I currently have a vanilla 125, I would like to go to a through axle and 8" front rotor. My reasoning being that I am getting more into technical riding, jumping etc and I am looking for improved braking and steering. At 140# I dont think I will be breaking my fork/frame any time soon.
    I want to stay with a coil shock (I dont want to carry a shock pump, or have the fork lose air after scratching up the stanchions) so that rules out the SL or the Maverick (which I feel is too XC and expensive for my needs). My main concern would be the increased crown to axle height affecting the handling, and whether I could get the Z1 sprung softly enough for my weight.
    Has anyone else on this forum made a change from the Fox to Z1, and did you notice a difference in handling?
    Yep. Went from the Vanilla to the Z1FR. Yowza. It made a big difference. I'm running the standard (non qr20) version. I prefer the slackened head angle. It's perfect.

  9. #9
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,128
    Never had a 'nella...but do have a Z1FRQR20

    Best description I've read was "Help there's a bike on my fork!"

    Woah baby is this thing stiff!! I'm 220+lbs so for me it's a definate advantage. May be more than you need, but not more than you can appreciate. This fork will take whatever you can throw at it and laugh it off. On top of that it'll still have fantastic low speed sensitivity. Heavy? yes. A PITA to remount the wheel too. Works nicely with my 8" rotor and XTR caliper (w/ SDG adaptor). You'll love the damping on this fork. Unless you ride fireroads, you'll probably never use the ETA. It works great, but I rarely need it on the climbs unless I stand and mash. Slackness isn't a real problem. There is a slight adjustment to riding style: plan ahead a bit, use a bit more input, and don't bother avoiding medium and small stuff anyore.

    I have the XMXL wheelset too (*@$^#*# ~!!! (#&$&^(@+@&^ mavic cust service!) But I like the swapable axle on the front. It's nice to have the option. I think Hadley does too, but costs extra.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    6,885
    Quote Originally Posted by Soupboy
    ....Performance-wise the extra 1"+ of A-C height will affect handling/climbing but you'll get used to anything after awhile and it comes down to personal preferences regardless....
    ......it's deceiving tho, as has been discussed on this board as well as others, the trail measurements on these forks also offsets things. IOW, although the Z1 has a taller ride height, it makes up for it by compensating with the trail (rake). Many have testified that it nearly evens out the handling with respect to cornering. However, of course the taller height has other factors in the ride besides cornering. I personally prefer a slacker feel as well, & have not suffered whatsoever in the handling dept...........


  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    39
    [QUOTE=FM]
    My only beef is the QR20. It's a poor design imho. I have broken a few parts on mine. Given that the Z1 will still be stiffer than your fox, and that you can run an 8" rotor without the QR20, you might consider passing on it. That will also save you the price of a new wheel.

    I'm using a non-QR20 Z1 on my Spot and thinking of upgrading to 8" rotor. Is it being approved by Marzocchi in using an 8" rotor on the non-QR20 z1? I'm kind of worry that those steel skinny QR might not be able to withstand such braking torque.

  12. #12
    mad aussie
    Reputation: Flying Wombat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    1,129

    Maybe I should save the bucks for now

    I have been pretty happy with my Fox, I was thinking that what I probably need is a different bike for really technical downhill and jumping and saving the spot at its current weight for general trail riding (here in Phoenix that can still be pretty technical).
    I am thinking that I should put the money into savings for the new Turner Highline when it comes out, a bike I can still ride on the trails (not for epics) and take down Holbert on the backside of south mountain and huck that 10+ foot drop at the bottom.....

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Espen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    364
    I have also swiched out my Vanilla for a 04 Z1FRQR. Yes it's heavy, but it work SOOOOO much better, I will never go back. I had a 1/2 spacer under my stem with the Vanilla, so after removing that, the ride height is about the same.

    Over long sections with roots, rocks and medium bumps, I feel the biggest difference. I can just pedal and the fork eats everything. The frontwheel is glued to the ground with allmost no lost speed.

    Just go for it, you will never regret.

    Espen

  14. #14
    FM
    FM is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: FM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    9,444
    Just a thought:

    for what building up a high-line would cost you, you could buy a used specialised bighit with a super-T, or a similar kona stinky, norco, ironhorse etc. You'd save enough money to pay for a Z1 on your 5-spot and maybe even a few lift passes at whistler- and you won't think twice about ditching a cheaper used bike if you get in over your head on a stunt.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the highline will be killer and I love turner frames....

    A few weekend ago my crew went to mt. seymour on vancouvers north shore. Long story short, There were 8 of us and we busted about $1200 worth of parts in one long killer day of FR immersion. Personally, my skills need to progress a LONG way before I'm willing to drop big coin on a dedicated FR bike!

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Wombat
    I have been pretty happy with my Fox, I was thinking that what I probably need is a different bike for really technical downhill and jumping and saving the spot at its current weight for general trail riding (here in Phoenix that can still be pretty technical).
    I am thinking that I should put the money into savings for the new Turner Highline when it comes out, a bike I can still ride on the trails (not for epics) and take down Holbert on the backside of south mountain and huck that 10+ foot drop at the bottom.....

  15. #15
    mad aussie
    Reputation: Flying Wombat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    1,129

    From what I heard about the Highline

    I would probably end up broken before the frame. Dave Turner did say that it would be a beast!
    I just really like Turner and their customer service. I try to reward good customer service by buying again from that company.
    I will cheap out by getting a lot of the parts to build the frame off e-bay or MTBR classifieds. No point in full XTR on a bike like that.
    That new Marzocchi 66 fork looks the goods.

  16. #16
    FM
    FM is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: FM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    9,444
    Good call. we basically went through a lot of brake levers, derailuers, hangers, and wheels. 3 guys had incedents that took their rear wheels and drivetrains all in one shot. luckily nobody got hurt since we were all heavily padded up.

    no doubt a turner will require less maintenance than a bargain FR frame! I sure enjoy my RFX.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Wombat
    I would probably end up broken before the frame. Dave Turner did say that it would be a beast!
    I just really like Turner and their customer service. I try to reward good customer service by buying again from that company.
    I will cheap out by getting a lot of the parts to build the frame off e-bay or MTBR classifieds. No point in full XTR on a bike like that.
    That new Marzocchi 66 fork looks the goods.

Similar Threads

  1. Fox Talas RL vs. Marzocchi Z1 FR SL
    By tequila joe in forum Shocks and Suspension
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 05-05-2004, 12:13 PM
  2. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-12-2004, 08:23 PM
  3. Replaced my Z1 FR with a TALAS on my Heckler
    By kapusta in forum Shocks and Suspension
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-09-2004, 08:58 PM
  4. Marzocchi z1 QR 20
    By aharris in forum Shocks and Suspension
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-31-2004, 01:29 PM
  5. Replies: 15
    Last Post: 03-20-2004, 03:39 PM

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.