e13 DRS owners, check those roller bearings.- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well e13 DRS owners, check those roller bearings.

    I was just out in the garage futzing with my bike and noticed the e13's roller was not rolling. The bad part was that the chain was starting to saw its way down into the roller (I have the softer rubber compound). Pulling it apart I noticed one bearing was totally siezed and the other was rough. I pulled the bearings out and pried the seals off. Brown water ran out, not a good sign. It took a while to get the stuck one rolling again. I repacked them well with some light grease (didn't want anything too thick or viscous) and slapped it back together.

    I only have about 20 riding hours, at most, on the guide. The bearings were probably pretty dry to begin with, but I will look at it more frequenly now. And to think the same factory probably puts out some cheap bikes' pivot bearings. Freaky...
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  2. #2
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    Hmmm. Thanks for the heads-up. I've never heard of this issue before. I'll have to check mine.

    Do they take a normal skate sized bearing?

  3. #3
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    New or used?

    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    I only have about 20 riding hours, at most, on the guide. The bearings were probably pretty dry to begin with, but I will look at it more frequenly now. And to think the same factory probably puts out some cheap bikes' pivot bearings. Freaky...
    This is the one you bought on Ebay and put on the 'Pack, right? Did you buy it new or used?

    Any other guides you might recommend over and above the E13 DRS?
    Forward progress by Brute Force and Bloody Ignorance.

  4. #4
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    I'll have a look at mine too. I have had it OTB for a while, sorting out some unrelated chaineline issues. It was still smooth then but I didn't have a whole lot of muddy/wet time on it.

    incubus, if I recall the bearings in the rollers are rather small. About 2/3 the diameter of a dime.

    Tscheezy, I guess CK didn't make these then eh? Speaking of which I just flushed and repacked my HS bearings.(even though they didn't seem to need it) A very satisfying experience. I found getting the spring clip back in place over the rubber seal sort of difficult though. I guess I need practice.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  5. #5
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    As with all bearing surfaces, service is always something that shouold be high on the priority list. If all bearings were completely "sealed" they wouldn't rotate. The bearings on the DRS are the lowest sitting bearings on the bike (i.e. they are exposed to more water and dirt than any others on the bike). If brown water comes out of a cartridge bearing it's a pretty good sign that they have been overexposed to water, and that the water has been in there a good length of time. The amount of water in an environment that a bicycle is ridden in is directly related to the frequency of the service intervals. If you bought this guide used it is a good bet that they probably needed to be serviced before you even received the kit. We sell the bearing kits at www.e13components.com However if you do wish to use another brand of bearing they are referred to as R4 - 2RS
    If you have any issues getting a hold of any let me know [email protected]

    J

  6. #6
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    SRS Roller problems

    I use SRS systems on my 4X bike & I have already gone through one broken top slider & two cracked plastic pulley wheels. THey sent me a replacement the first time, but I had to buy the $15 plastic parts tree pack from them the second time. Those rollers are just too delicate and too thin. Their plastic is too brittle & just cracks depsite using proper torque. Both times it broke in under 10 rides, never because of a hit to the guide. They just cracked on a babied bike that is track only, never touches a trail. E-13 is a great guide otherwise, but their rollers suck. The bearings do not even compare to the MRPs. I am on my 4th E-13 set. Just plan on buying the extra $15 parts pack when you get one so you are covered at the track.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonas
    As with all bearing surfaces, service is always something that shouold be high on the priority list. If all bearings were completely "sealed" they wouldn't rotate. The bearings on the DRS are the lowest sitting bearings on the bike (i.e. they are exposed to more water and dirt than any others on the bike). If brown water comes out of a cartridge bearing it's a pretty good sign that they have been overexposed to water, and that the water has been in there a good length of time. The amount of water in an environment that a bicycle is ridden in is directly related to the frequency of the service intervals. If you bought this guide used it is a good bet that they probably needed to be serviced before you even received the kit. We sell the bearing kits at www.e13components.com However if you do wish to use another brand of bearing they are referred to as R4 - 2RS
    If you have any issues getting a hold of any let me know [email protected]

    J
    ...you guys ROCK!!!! Now get back to work and squeak out my sovereign


  8. #8
    No, that's not phonetic
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    I did get it used, but it was in near new condition, only a few rides on it. That was obvious when I inspected it upon receipt. I do live in a fabulously wet area, but we have been having something of a dry winter overall. Happily the rides which takes us through hub-deep water crossings regularly won't fall to the Pack. I have a DRS roller and bearings on my Heim guide right now too. I checked the bearings on it also and they were going to pot as well. They both have minimal miles on them. The rear wheel just slathers the chain with wet slop and it all rolls over that tiny, fast spinning roller. Maybe CK will make some aftermarket bearings.

    I suspect the bearings come with little or no grease in them. A little prophylactic lubing will go a long way there, and they are pretty easy to get into. Otherwise I am happy with the guide.

    DV8- you could likely fit a MRP roller on the SRS with minimum modification. That may address part of your issue.

    BZ- I'm surprised you went into your headset. I did my first King repack after 11 years of use. The grease still looked pretty good.
    Last edited by tscheezy; 01-19-2005 at 12:52 PM.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    I did get it used, but it was in near new condition, only a few rides on it. That was obvious when I inspected it upon receipt. I do live in a fabulously wet area, but we have been having something of a dry winter overall. Happily the rides which takes us through hub-deep water crossings regularly won't fall to the Pack. I have a DRS roller and bearings on my Heim guide right now too. I checked the bearings on it also and they were going to pot as well. They both have minimal miles on them. The rear wheel just slathers the chain with wet slop and it all rolls over that tiny, fast spinning roller. Maybe CK will make some aftermarket bearings.

    I suspect the bearings come with little or no grease in them. A little prophylactic lubing will go a long way there, and they are pretty easy to get into. Otherwise I am happy with the guide.

    DV8- you could likely fit a MRP roller on the SRS with minimum modification. That may address part of your issue.

    BZ- I'm surprised you went into your headset. I did my first King repack after 11 years of use. The grease still looked pretty good.
    Thanks for that recommendation TS! Never had thought of that choice. I will look into it.
    I just got a sponsor offer from MRP and was thinking of signing up and trying their new system 3. I would like to run that with no bashring to save weight the way Eric Carter & Lopes do (only on my track racing bike though). Those bashrings weigh a ton, and that is spinning weight. Then again, if e-13 gets back to me with a decent sponsor offer, I may just stick with them.

  10. #10
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    dv8 -
    Going through that many plastics is usually a solid sign of improper set up or torque. All Plastics have been specifically designed to withstand a good amount of overtorquing in any case. Did you use a torque wrench? Do you have a torque watch for those smaller torques? The nylon locknuts on the backpside of the backplates where incorporated so not a lot of torque needs to be used. And what kind of lube were you using? We find that some super synthetic lubes tend to weaken the plastics.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dv8cam
    I use SRS systems on my 4X bike & I have already gone through one broken top slider & two cracked plastic pulley wheels. THey sent me a replacement the first time, but I had to buy the $15 plastic parts tree pack from them the second time. Those rollers are just too delicate and too thin. Their plastic is too brittle & just cracks depsite using proper torque. Both times it broke in under 10 rides, never because of a hit to the guide. They just cracked on a babied bike that is track only, never touches a trail. E-13 is a great guide otherwise, but their rollers suck. The bearings do not even compare to the MRPs. I am on my 4th E-13 set. Just plan on buying the extra $15 parts pack when you get one so you are covered at the track.

    Man I am really suprised yours broke. I have been beating the sh1t out of my DRS doing urban and smashing it into concrete benches and hitting it so hard that the drs actually rotates around the bb cup pretty frequently. This causes the swingarm on the rfx to hit the top of the plastic plate under full extension and I have not broken any parts on it and I've had it almost 9 months.

  12. #12
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    tscheezy - sorry to hear of your misfortune with the used bearings. They are serviceable. It appears that Jonas has already answered that issue.


    dv8cam - Your experience is not the norm. Rather, the comlete opposite of what general consumers experience with our guides. I am curious to konw your answers to Jonas's questions.

    I am sorry you find that our rollers 'suck'. We designed our roller to have a very low drag coefficient, a 1/3 of a derailluer pulley wheels. This means that a rider actually puts out less energy to pedal the bike than that of a bike equipped with polyurethane roller. Think of it making it easier to pedal the bike.

    "Their plastic is too brittle & just cracks depsite using proper torque"
    That is an incorrect statement. I have too much personal feedback from UCI World Cup, Street Comp, Freeride comps champions, World Cup mechanics and most importantly amatuer riders/racers who disagree.

    Best of luck to you to whatever chain guide manufacturer you decide to work with in 2005.

    If you have any tech questions then feel free to email us at [email protected].

    Regards,

    Michael Tobler

    e.thirteen components
    Please do not PM me. Please use Email if you have any product questions at [email protected]

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    ...you guys ROCK!!!! Now get back to work and squeak out my sovereign

    Ha!!!

    Will do Mr. Carpenter.

    You are not the only one excited for that bike.

    Michael

    e.thirteen components / Evil Bikes
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dv8cam
    I use SRS systems on my 4X bike & I have already gone through one broken top slider & two cracked plastic pulley wheels. THey sent me a replacement the first time, but I had to buy the $15 plastic parts tree pack from them the second time. Those rollers are just too delicate and too thin. Their plastic is too brittle & just cracks depsite using proper torque. Both times it broke in under 10 rides, never because of a hit to the guide. They just cracked on a babied bike that is track only, never touches a trail. E-13 is a great guide otherwise, but their rollers suck. The bearings do not even compare to the MRPs. I am on my 4th E-13 set. Just plan on buying the extra $15 parts pack when you get one so you are covered at the track.
    DV8-
    To take what Jonas said one step further, we've got a ton of World Cup pros on our guides, and they rarely have any need to replace the plastics. In fact, I think Cedric Gracia and Sam Hill ran the same plastics all season in '04. On top of that, our guides were on all the Whistler rental bikes last summer, which receive a whopping 1,000,000 vertical feet of descending per season, and they were, according to the shop mechanics at Whistler, "the most maintenence-free component on the bikes". I personally sent them a grand total of 15 spare parts trees for their fleet of 125 bikes, and when I visted their shop in August, they still had at least a dozen of those trees left over.

    Bottom line: there's a very high probability that you're over-torquing your bolts or using some sort of odd-ball lube that chemically reacts with the parts of our guide in a negative way. We highly recommend lubes by Pedro's, Finish Line, and White Lightening. We've heard of problems with Boshield T-9 and Pro-Link - and even though those are normally fantastic lubes, they just seem to react a little harshly with our guides.

    Anyway, I hope this helps explain a few things. As always, write or call us any time if you have any other questions.

    John Pentecost
    Business Director
    e.thirteen components
    207-772-3132

  15. #15
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    Good job!

    CS right here on the turner board, that kicks a$$.



    Quote Originally Posted by jonas
    As with all bearing surfaces, service is always something that shouold be high on the priority list. If all bearings were completely "sealed" they wouldn't rotate. The bearings on the DRS are the lowest sitting bearings on the bike (i.e. they are exposed to more water and dirt than any others on the bike). If brown water comes out of a cartridge bearing it's a pretty good sign that they have been overexposed to water, and that the water has been in there a good length of time. The amount of water in an environment that a bicycle is ridden in is directly related to the frequency of the service intervals. If you bought this guide used it is a good bet that they probably needed to be serviced before you even received the kit. We sell the bearing kits at www.e13components.com However if you do wish to use another brand of bearing they are referred to as R4 - 2RS
    If you have any issues getting a hold of any let me know [email protected]

    J

  16. #16

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    I used an E13 SRS all last year on my DHR and loved it. I did crack the the roller and the top and lower plastic guide plates but with the help of Michael Tobler we figured it out. I was using Prolink chain lube which has now been added to the 'never use' list. It literally ate the pulley. Since I switched I've had no issues. With the upper and lower guide plates, I just overtightened them which caused them to crack. You really don't need to tighten them that much because, as Jonas mentioned, the nuts are nylock.

    I put my guide through hell this year and after replacing the plastic guides (included in the $15 parts tree) I've now got it mounted to my Rail. I'm also using the same pulley bearing, I just pulled it out and gave it some TLC after the wet races.

  17. #17
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    Question on your Heim Guide

    [QUOTE=tscheezy]on it also and they were going to pot as well. They both have minimal miles on them. The rear wheel just slathers the chain with wet slop and it all rolls over that tiny, fast spinning roller. Maybe CK will make some aftermarket bearings.QUOTE]

    I have a Heim on my 5 Spot & DRS on Bullit. My Roller on my Heim is starting to go bad after almost 2 years. I was wondering how easily I could put an Evil soft roller on it? It sounds like you wouldn't recommend it. Thanks for any info you can provide.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by John P.
    DV8-
    To take what Jonas said one step further, we've got a ton of World Cup pros on our guides, and they rarely have any need to replace the plastics. In fact, I think Cedric Gracia and Sam Hill ran the same plastics all season in '04. On top of that, our guides were on all the Whistler rental bikes last summer, which receive a whopping 1,000,000 vertical feet of descending per season, and they were, according to the shop mechanics at Whistler, "the most maintenence-free component on the bikes". I personally sent them a grand total of 15 spare parts trees for their fleet of 125 bikes, and when I visted their shop in August, they still had at least a dozen of those trees left over.

    Bottom line: there's a very high probability that you're over-torquing your bolts or using some sort of odd-ball lube that chemically reacts with the parts of our guide in a negative way. We highly recommend lubes by Pedro's, Finish Line, and White Lightening. We've heard of problems with Boshield T-9 and Pro-Link - and even though those are normally fantastic lubes, they just seem to react a little harshly with our guides.

    Anyway, I hope this helps explain a few things. As always, write or call us any time if you have any other questions.

    John Pentecost
    Business Director
    e.thirteen components
    207-772-3132
    Yep on the proper torque issue. It was a good quality shop torque wrench with small increment, minute torques for the smaller stuff like your guide & Turner pivots. I have been through your not over tightening discussions before on the phone with you guys and per the instructions that come with guide. I have used your customer service but only got a replacement part once. Was told to buy the tree the second time. Completely ignored another time. I am running your proper crownwheel chainring with the special spacing. I was told to buy one when I went to your pits at Sea Otter. I was told that the way my bike was set-up with the guide, it was even smoother than you rown guys can get it. So the issue was not improper installation. I used to use White Lightning, have been getting better results in the last month with Pedro's. No other lube other than what came on my XT & XTR chains stock. I do not remember your instructions listing proper/improper lubes, but I may be wrong on that one. The pulley was never bashed. Not even the bashring. This is a track only bike. Maybe I just had bad luck with the plastic.

  19. #19
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    Hey as long as we are doing a little feedback session, I would like to mention that the included bolts which interface with the bb shell's face tabs are simply way too big in the head. They should end up flush with the guide's mount plate, and not stick out a few mm like they do where they end up interfering with the granny ring chainring bolts. I need to grind mine down to be able to use them. I wonder how much allen wrench well will be left to grab. I could also add a bb spacer between the outer flange and the guide's plate, but I don't want to hose my chainline any more.

    The guide stays put pretty well just using the bb cranked against it, but it would be nice to be able to back it up with the bolts. You guys have a great product, just thought we'd help make it perfect .
    Last edited by tscheezy; 01-19-2005 at 12:37 PM.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    ...BZ- I'm surprised you went into your headset. I did my first King repack after 11 years of use. The grease still looked pretty good.
    I had it open since I was changing the oil in my fork. You're right there was no need to do the HS bearings, but since that hub bearing thread, I decided to practice on something easier to get at first.

    General observation: As for the DRS durability, I've only had a few months on it but even with the rocky, technical nature of the NE and my aggressive (talentless) riding style, I've had no problems.

    Wow, I'm suprised a thread about some roller bearings has drawn such a strong interest.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenglow
    I have a Heim on my 5 Spot & DRS on Bullit. My Roller on my Heim is starting to go bad after almost 2 years. I was wondering how easily I could put an Evil soft roller on it? It sounds like you wouldn't recommend it. Thanks for any info you can provide.
    It is very easy to switch. I repacked my Heim bearings early on which is probably why it has held up better than the e13 which I did not catch in time. Just get an e13 soft roller and the bearings. Cut a small plate out of stout plastic, drill a hole in it, pass the 5mm Heim bolt through the hole, add a washer, the e13 roller, another washer or two, and finally pass it through the slot on the Heim. It is just like the stock Heim except you need an outer guide plate. If the chain rubs the Heim's stainless arm in low gears adding a plastic plate inside the roller is nice too. That can be made out of thin plastic (fork oil bottle). I also shortened my Heim so I could tuck it up higher since I only run two rings and wanted more tire clearance. Here's mine:





    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    Wow, I'm suprised a thread about some roller bearings has drawn such a strong interest.
    Yeah, I can't IMAGINE why any manufacturer would get nervous when I mention using their product...
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Yeah, I can't IMAGINE why any manufacturer would get nervous when I mention using their product...
    ...Like the mod you just posted above dosen't already have them flinching?
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonas
    dv8 -
    Going through that many plastics is usually a solid sign of improper set up or torque. All Plastics have been specifically designed to withstand a good amount of overtorquing in any case. Did you use a torque wrench? Do you have a torque watch for those smaller torques? The nylon locknuts on the backpside of the backplates where incorporated so not a lot of torque needs to be used. And what kind of lube were you using? We find that some super synthetic lubes tend to weaken the plastics.
    Yep on the proper torque issue. It was a good quality shop torque wrench with small increment, minute torques for the smaller stuff like your guide & Turner pivots. I have been through your not over tightening discussions before on the phone with you guys and per the instructions that come with guide. I have used your customer service but only got a replacement part once. Was told to buy the tree the second time. Completely ignored another time. I am running your proper crownwheel chainring with the special spacing. I was told to buy one when I went to your pits at Sea Otter. I was told that the way my bike was set-up with the guide, it was even smoother than you rown guys can get it. So the issue was not improper installation. I used to use White Lightning, have been getting better results in the last month with Pedro's. No other lube other than what came on my XT & XTR chains stock. I do not remember your instructions listing proper/improper lubes, but I may be wrong on that one. The pulley was never bashed. Not even the bashring. This is a track only bike. Maybe I just had bad luck with the plastic.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by swiss
    tscheezy - sorry to hear of your misfortune with the used bearings. They are serviceable. It appears that Jonas has already answered that issue.


    dv8cam - Your experience is not the norm. Rather, the comlete opposite of what general consumers experience with our guides. I am curious to konw your answers to Jonas's questions.

    I am sorry you find that our rollers 'suck'. We designed our roller to have a very low drag coefficient, a 1/3 of a derailluer pulley wheels. This means that a rider actually puts out less energy to pedal the bike than that of a bike equipped with polyurethane roller. Think of it making it easier to pedal the bike.

    "Their plastic is too brittle & just cracks depsite using proper torque"
    That is an incorrect statement. I have too much personal feedback from UCI World Cup, Street Comp, Freeride comps champions, World Cup mechanics and most importantly amatuer riders/racers who disagree.

    Best of luck to you to whatever chain guide manufacturer you decide to work with in 2005.

    If you have any tech questions then feel free to email us at [email protected].

    Regards,

    Michael Tobler

    e.thirteen components
    Thank you for the good wishes. I answered Jonas' q's below. Now as far as the less drag theory, I think that the SRS has more drag than the MRP. When I do the simple pedal spin on a lot of bikes, I find that the SRS do not spin as long & easy as the MRP set ups. The MRP rollers have better sealed bearings. They spin freely & smoother when comapring a new MRP to an E13. And they make a lot less noise because the softer rubber roller is silent compared to the rattle of the E-13 pulley. Of course the rest of the drivetrain & hub cassette body will influence the overall free spin test. And I am not sure if the fact that MRP rollers can be set up to spin when in contact with the bashguard has anything to do with this. Another thing is that E13 is specifically strongly against tampering with moving the actual pulley in or out to correct bad chain alignment. Thus if you are stuck with bad alignment because you have not purchased all E13 products across the board like the crownring, there is no real solution. One of your own techs admitted that at Sea Otter. With the MRP it is easier & possible to use washers to properly space out the actual roller for better alignment.

    Don't get me wrong. The E-13 is pretty damn good. there is just room for improvement. See this thread as free product R&D. ; )

    Now as far as the claim of all the great riders you guys back who have no probs, that is great. Other companies can make the same claims. The true test of a good product is if it works well WITHOUT the help of a factory team mechanic or frequent visits to an expensive shop mechanic. A product that is so high maintenance is not for the masses.

  26. #26
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    You may want to try their soft roller. It is very smooth and quiet and there is nothing to crack.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  27. #27
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    I found the soft roller to turn freely and it didn't feel like it added much drag at all. I also didn't have any alignment problems. It could be that my setup is different than yours though. I use the outboard type $himano BB and the DRS plate acts as the only spacer.

    Maybe I misunderstood your post but dosen't the DRS come with bracket spacers to adjust the pulley w/o affecting the bracket's place on bb shell?

    All in all, it was a very simple installation for me and worked without any adjustments. But I didn't use the bolts/bb mounting tabs (since I don't have any)
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  28. #28
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    I love this Forum

    Just by lurking a guy can learn most of what he needs to know about bike tech on this site. Yesterday I ordered an E-13 from BoutiqueBikes for my RFX. First chainguide install and not nervous about the nuts and bolts issues but I had some uncertainty about maintenance. Like my wife says,"everything happens for a reason" (WTF?)
    Everybody dies, but not everyone lives

  29. #29

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    on a side note....

    The search engine hasn't turned up anything very valuable for me on the Heim guide. How has it worked for you (pros/cons)? I'm thinking of slapping one on a super D bike I'm putting together.

    Thanks for any info!

  30. #30
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    Thanks

    I think of all the people that post on MTBR, you are the most helpful and entertaining.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miko
    I used an E13 SRS all last year on my DHR and loved it. I did crack the the roller and the top and lower plastic guide plates but with the help of Michael Tobler we figured it out. I was using Prolink chain lube which has now been added to the 'never use' list. It literally ate the pulley. Since I switched I've had no issues. With the upper and lower guide plates, I just overtightened them which caused them to crack. You really don't need to tighten them that much because, as Jonas mentioned, the nuts are nylock.

    I put my guide through hell this year and after replacing the plastic guides (included in the $15 parts tree) I've now got it mounted to my Rail. I'm also using the same pulley bearing, I just pulled it out and gave it some TLC after the wet races.
    I'm amazed - it is so rare to hear about problems with E-13 stuff, in fact, it's like complaints about Turner frames....almost never...
    I have an SRS on my dirt jump bike - works like a charm - no problems, no dropped chains, just jump after jump and my chain is just where it needs to be...
    I have a DRS on my VP Free - again, 0 problems - and folks have had some setup problems with the Free & the DRS - mine went together fine (credit to my LBS not me) and I have had no problems...the free has taken some pretty good abuse so far, and the DRS holds up just fine..

    Like somebody else said, you guys at Evil/E-13 are (like Casey & DT @ Turner) great for poping up on these boards and answering questions, but GET BACK TO WORK AND SHIP MY D.O.C.!!!

  32. #32
    No, that's not phonetic
    Reputation: tscheezy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladge
    The search engine hasn't turned up anything very valuable for me on the Heim guide. How has it worked for you (pros/cons)?
    Pros:
    - Light weight (80g or something)
    - Brainless installation (but needs a bb with a flange on the drive side)
    - Easy adjustment
    - Pretty quiet
    - Reasonably durable
    - Accomodates 2 rings with a bashguard or 3 chainrings
    - Hardly affects chainline at all
    - Super low-profile and out of harm's way

    Cons:
    - Mounting arm thin stainless and not super stiff
    - Does not use bb shell mounting tabs to secure: relies on bb flange only (still plenty secure)
    - Tapered roller does not guide chain as effectively as stepped roller (like on e13 DRS)
    - Kind of expensive for what it is: an XC chainguide.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  33. #33
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    The excellent customer service that you guys have experienced with Turner is the same kind of great service that E13 provides. Our team has been on DHR's and SRS guides for 3 whole seasons now with stellar results.
    We consist of a bunch of unsmooth semi-pros banging around on east coast rocks, and none of us have ever broken any of the plastics. In three years on SRS guides, I have only replaced one roller and that was after a string of mud races concluding with the shin deep muck of Snowshoe, and my only bearing maintenence was squirting a high pressure hose in there to get out the mud. dv8 experiences have been very different from not only our team, but the other guys around here as well. The southeast is known for having to race in red clay, and we just can't use parts that do not work well in the mud.
    SEI Racing

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Hey as long as we are doing a little feedback session, I would like to mention that the included bolts which interface with the bb shell's face tabs are simply way too big in the head. They should end up flush with the guide's mount plate, and not stick out a few mm like they do where they end up interfering with the granny ring chainring bolts. I need to grind mine down to be able to use them. I wonder how much allen wrench well will be left to grab. I could also add a bb spacer between the outer flange and the guide's plate, but I don't want to hose my chainline any more.

    The guide stays put pretty well just using the bb cranked against it, but it would be nice to be able to back it up with the bolts. You guys have a great product, just thought we'd help make it perfect .
    Appreciate the input. We listen closely to what customers/riders have to say. Actually, we have gone to completely eliminating the ISCG bolt holes for exactly this reason - and the fact that they don't allow you any rotational adjustability. Some frame manufacturers miss the iscg spec a little and that could be an issue for customers using the bolt holes in the backplate. We understand the desire to "secure" the backplate with the bolts, but we would rather the guide slightly rotate than bend upon impact. Plastics are cheaper to replace than an new backplate. As long as you only grease the inside of the BB shell upon installation (and not the cup threads) then no grease can pile up between the clamping surfaces and cause premature rotation problems.
    Regards,
    J

  35. #35
    No, that's not phonetic
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    A very good point on allowing the guide to rotate out of the way on impact. The machining of the mounting plate does follow the contours of the tabs though, so it would not rotate far before binding on the tabs anyway.

    Thanks for the cool stuff and the continued feedback. We don't want to scare companies away from posting by opening themselves up to a CS-issue spleen-venting session. As was mentioned, like Turner I don't think you would have that problem anyway. Keep up the good work.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  36. #36
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Here's what I was talking about. Even a minor rotation and it seems the guide would munch the tabs. It would be preferable to have a bolt take the brunt and distribute it over the 3 tabs' thread areas rather than have one or two tab surfaces absorb it. I bent guide is cheaper than hurting the frame as well. Just thinking out loud here....

    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  37. #37
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    so what's a good lube-

    Quote Originally Posted by jonas
    dv8 -
    Going through that many plastics is usually a solid sign of improper set up or torque. All Plastics have been specifically designed to withstand a good amount of overtorquing in any case. Did you use a torque wrench? Do you have a torque watch for those smaller torques? The nylon locknuts on the backpside of the backplates where incorporated so not a lot of torque needs to be used. And what kind of lube were you using? We find that some super synthetic lubes tend to weaken the plastics.
    I've done a couple of rides with my vp free and e13 setup and today I noticed that the rollers aren't turning anymore...if I don't want to remove the bearings, can I just spray some wd 40 in there to free them up? Do they respond badly to water - I've had to do a couple of stream crossings but the rollers never siezed then...

  38. #38
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    Water is what kills them. They don't sieze up when they first contact water, but rather later after the water which got in at the stream has a chance to make the bearing rust as it sits in the garage back at home for a few days. DW40 sprayed from the outside won't do much. You need to take the roller wheel off the guide, pop the bearings out, very carefully pry the black rubber side shields off each side of the bearing, blow any rusty crap out with a squirt of WD40 and some compressed air, and PACK it full of light grease. Reassemble. Ride.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

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